957 replies to this topic

[gdavid]

It is always amusing to me to listen to the J Boat detractors, they are never going to build a boat (again) that will make you guys happy so why do you care what they build? I don't drink their koolaid and I don't care for a lot of their designs but that doesn't make them failures, they just don't appeal to me. I think you would have to be a bit silly to expect J Boats to come out the a the kind of sportboat that some of you guys are looking for. Only twice since the sprit boats started have they tried a balls to the wall racer and they were cool boats but financial flops. They do a good job at what they do, and that is wide market appeal, durable designs, and easy to sail. They are not about being the fastest, most extreme and most tweeky to sail. They are a big company and they expect their classes to be big.

If you don't want winches or a hatch or a backstay then go buy a viper and be happy (or a melges 20 or a shaw 650). Personaly I would hate to see J build something to go head to head with the viper because they have the clout/marketshare/popularity to roll right over that class and hurt it's growth and that would be a shame in my opinion. I don't want to see this boat hurt the melges 24 either but they are shrinking here in the US already and the boats just don't stay competitive, if the little guy wants to stay in the class for years get really good and start winning events in the 24 he will have to buy himself a new boat somewhere along the way unless he is the second coming of Slocum or something. Winches make sense on what this boat is intended for, if you want it to be inclusive and junior/kid friendly it should enable them to do that job without having to do tricks sweating the sheet in. If you don't want to use them then who cares?, they add little weight and minimal expense and it is a one design anyway, it's a J boat it's not going to be a featherweight anyway. In a real blow (~30kts) I cannot trim the spinnaker of an 80 in during a puff, the boat just doen't accelerate fast enough to unload the sheet, I imagine the 70 similar, they loads will be lighter but the trimmer may be smaller than me too. Finally I like the idea of this boat as a trainer for teaching kids about keelboats so winches and backstays are nice to have for teaching. I think the winch is too far aft too.

Finally a couple more random thoughts of mine:

-They don't make boats that please everybody but they certainly please alot of people with them.
-If you aren't smart enough to lead it to the windward winch rather than send someone down to the leeward side to grind well I just don't know what to tell you
-Yes 105's are underpowered in many conditions but do you really think they need any more horsepower for running into each other?

[USA190520]

I want to introduce my gf to racing in a fun, somewhat modern sporty type boat... She sailed twice this year, the first time she's ever sailed and it was on a j24.. She liked it..

So I could spend a fortune on a m24 and ask her to hang from her kidneys.. A m20 that I really like but is tiny for where I live in regard to getting to the ocean and back or the j70 which is a combo of all 3 the j24, m24 and
20...

I think this is the boat I buy for us to race together as most of my racing is done far away from home on opb..

I'm kinda excited about this one...

Bottom line, if ya don't like it, don't buy it.
There's no need to bash a builder for not building the boat you wish they did... Just find the builder/class who does and buy that one.

[Gription]

my gripe with the design is the outboard integration. Where as the melges 32, henderson, and farr 25 all use an innovative approach to raise and lower the outboard the J/70 looks like its going to be stern mounted. Ill be the first to admit the cockpit storage approach is a welcome change over the J80, but seriously guys...this should be a no brainer.

[JACO]

I somewhat agree about the outboard storage, but, it might be that concession came down to their effort at trying to get the boat near their target price. Those o/b drop assemblies have to add cost (labor) to the build. Though I'd trade the carbon boom for the integrated o/b well.

[U20guy2]

I want to introduce my gf to racing in a fun, somewhat modern sporty type boat... She sailed twice this year, the first time she's ever sailed and it was on a j24.. She liked it..

So I could spend a fortune on a m24 and ask her to hang from her kidneys.. A m20 that I really like but is tiny for where I live in regard to getting to the ocean and back or the j70 which is a combo of all 3 the j24, m24 and
20...

I think this is the boat I buy for us to race together as most of my racing is done far away from home on opb..

I'm kinda excited about this one...

Bottom line, if ya don't like it, don't buy it.
There's no need to bash a builder for not building the boat you wish they did... Just find the builder/class who does and buy that one.

Not to let wind out of your sails or anything but the M20 would be dramatically faster and more enjoyable to sail and far far less apt to sink than the J/24. You really need to get out and sail any of the current sport boats before you pass that sort of judgment on one that doesn't even exist yet. Just Saying

[U20guy2]

I somewhat agree about the outboard storage, but, it might be that concession came down to their effort at trying to get the boat near their target price. Those o/b drop assemblies have to add cost (labor) to the build. Though I'd trade the carbon boom for the integrated o/b well.

Not to mention that most of the sport boat type sailors stow the outboard as center as possible in this size of a boat. Putting the outboard in the cockpit sole on a 20ft boat you might as well just leave it hanging off the back. These 20ft boats are weight sensitive just like a dinghy. If they do a proper job on this new J - it will only need a 2hp and that will only be of any use when there is nearly zero wind to start with.

[USA190520]

I want to introduce my gf to racing in a fun, somewhat modern sporty type boat... She sailed twice this year, the first time she's ever sailed and it was on a j24.. She liked it..

So I could spend a fortune on a m24 and ask her to hang from her kidneys.. A m20 that I really like but is tiny for where I live in regard to getting to the ocean and back or the j70 which is a combo of all 3 the j24, m24 and
20...

I think this is the boat I buy for us to race together as most of my racing is done far away from home on opb..

I'm kinda excited about this one...

Bottom line, if ya don't like it, don't buy it.
There's no need to bash a builder for not building the boat you wish they did... Just find the builder/class who does and buy that one.

Not to let wind out of your sails or anything but the M20 would be dramatically faster and more enjoyable to sail and far far less apt to sink than the J/24. You really need to get out and sail any of the current sport boats before you pass that sort of judgment on one that doesn't even exist yet. Just Saying

I'm confident ive got the background to qualify me to decide whether or not I like this boat.

But thanks

[Monster Mash]

.
anyone got the skinny on this boats weight ?

will the Hull be single skin or cored



this is Anarchy with the reputation of 'heard it here first" after all

can Clean break the 'veil of secrecy'

1600 lbs according to another poster on another site.

[sailfishnj]

I can tell you USA190520 is more than qualified to judge for himself. He is right the J/70 maybe a fun boat for the mid atlantic. I'm looking forward to checking this boat when it is completed.

[GybeSet®]

liked his point, well said YES
but you can you say that he's not a longtime card-carrying ' J tragic '

ones things for sure no sportsboater, let alone one hundred would order a boat without knowing the weight, brand loyalty is out there !

[USA190520]

I'm a card carrying member of if it's a cool boat I like it club

Trust me, I think the m20 should have traps... The Vxone is cool too...

What it does comes before who builds it....

That's why I'm selling my Mac26

[Jambalaya]

my gripe with the design is the outboard integration. Where as the melges 32, henderson, and farr 25 all use an innovative approach to raise and lower the outboard the J/70 looks like its going to be stern mounted. Ill be the first to admit the cockpit storage approach is a welcome change over the J80, but seriously guys...this should be a no brainer.

A hole in the bottom of the boat would be a big negative for me. The Melges 20 with it's big cockpit locker is the neatest solution I've seen, much better than the J80/Melges 24 setup with the SB3 being the worst with a tiny compartment under the kite bag.

[Gription]

my gripe with the design is the outboard integration. Where as the melges 32, henderson, and farr 25 all use an innovative approach to raise and lower the outboard the J/70 looks like its going to be stern mounted. Ill be the first to admit the cockpit storage approach is a welcome change over the J80, but seriously guys...this should be a no brainer.

A hole in the bottom of the boat would be a big negative for me. The Melges 20 with it's big cockpit locker is the neatest solution I've seen, much better than the J80/Melges 24 setup with the SB3 being the worst with a tiny compartment under the kite bag.

Can you explain why it would be a big negative? With the exception of the FT 10 , I havent heard of any drawbacks to this approach.

[Jambalaya]

Can you explain why it would be a big negative? With the exception of the FT 10 , I havent heard of any drawbacks to this approach.

Needless complexity, another thing to go wrong and wear as the boat gets older plus you have the issue of whether the hull is fair. Carrying a small outboard from a cockpit locker to the stern as per the Melges 20 isn't much trouble. Just my 2c

[GybeSet®]

Jamba s right

the CRO or intergrated o'board motor wells only suit larger boats, ones that have alot of vertical depth, & ones that can afford the weight of the water in the well, would kill a small boat

there are a few 'pull forward - tuck away' stern setups which are neater then hanging an o'board beyond the stern

you kinda pull them forward into the aft end of the cockpit and the better ones (visually) have an aperture back there with a hatch over (this a custom job but bull 7000 too)
lots of downunder boats still have the up-over-down bracket yet the motor stores on top of the cockpit floor yet neatly away off to one side


it's merely a liitle bit of brain effort when designing the cockpit mould, i'm fucked if i know why they (new boat designers) don't do it with mass market targeted boats

[GybeSet®]

.

example - on top 6mtr

[Gription]

Jamba s right

the CRO or intergrated o'board motor wells only suit larger boats, ones that have alot of vertical depth, & ones that can afford the weight of the water in the well, would kill a small boat

there are a few 'pull forward - tuck away' stern setups which are neater then hanging an o'board beyond the stern

you kinda pull them forward into the aft end of the cockpit and the better ones (visually) have an aperture back there with a hatch over (this a custom job but bull 7000 too)
lots of downunder boats still have the up-over-down bracket yet the motor stores on top of the cockpit floor yet neatly away off to one side


it's merely a liitle bit of brain effort when designing the cockpit mould, i'm fucked if i know why they (new boat designers) don't do it with mass market targeted boats

That sounds like a reasonable answer to me, but I would hate to kick my foot on the outboard on the cockpit floor.

[Eric]

I hope for them the keels don't fall of like on a few of the j 80....

So, here's a challenge for ya:

Go build 500 boats, and sell them to a wide variety of people sailing in a wide variety of places, with a wide variety of ideas about how to take care of those boats. Then keep track of how many keels fall off!

Sell 500 airplanes in a wide variety of places, with a wide variety of ideas about how to take care of them and if only one has it's wings fall off they will all be grounded until the design is fixed. Why are boats any different?

[GybeSet®]

.......... and the better ones (visually) have an aperture back there with a hatch over (this a custom job but bull 7000 too)

That sounds like a reasonable answer to me, but I would hate to kick my foot on the outboard on the cockpit floor.

then you'd go with the above, cover goes over the motor recess

better than having the 'cool look' of it hanging over the back, or putting it on & off twice a day

[nroose]

I hope for them the keels don't fall of like on a few of the j 80....

So, here's a challenge for ya:

Go build 500 boats, and sell them to a wide variety of people sailing in a wide variety of places, with a wide variety of ideas about how to take care of those boats. Then keep track of how many keels fall off!

Sell 500 airplanes in a wide variety of places, with a wide variety of ideas about how to take care of them and if only one has it's wings fall off they will all be grounded until the design is fixed. Why are boats any different?

Ever hear of "general aviation". I am pretty sure a higher percentage of general aviation flyers die in crashes than sailors die in incidents on the water.

The difference between J80s and MD80s are:

1. More people are on the MD80.
2. If the wings fall off of an MD80, then all aboard are very likely to die, whereas the people on the J80 are not very likely to die if the keel falls off.
3. The MD80 is operated and maintained by highly trained professionals. You would not expect McDonnell Douglass to build a plane that would work for very long without professional pilots and highly trained maintenance personnel.

[crash]

I hope for them the keels don't fall of like on a few of the j 80....

So, here's a challenge for ya:

Go build 500 boats, and sell them to a wide variety of people sailing in a wide variety of places, with a wide variety of ideas about how to take care of those boats. Then keep track of how many keels fall off!

Sell 500 airplanes in a wide variety of places, with a wide variety of ideas about how to take care of them and if only one has it's wings fall off they will all be grounded until the design is fixed. Why are boats any different?

Actually, unless its a homebuilt, experimental design, all maintenance on an airplane must be signed off by a FAA licensed mech...where as any idiot can work on a sailboat. Also if an airplane has a accident and say, damages that wing by bumping into something, that aircraft is grounded until the wing is properly repaired. A sailboat can be run aground and go off sailing the next day with no repairs ever being done. Etc, etc. So this is an apples to oranges comparison. Also anyone want to trade sales numbers with general avaition?

[GybeSet®]

j/boats LOOK ! engine goes here /\ /\

your customers and every subsequent owner will thank you for decades

[Kent H]

Hudson Yacht - China

The J70 will be built in China at a facility known as Hudson Yacht and Marine (I believe) This is the link to their web page and gives information on the founder Hudson Wang and the others involved. The location, Xiamen China is the same as where the FT-10 was built but I believe this is a different company.

[Jambalaya]

Same factory that's building the J80s link

They even has a place holder for a J-Boat New Model !

[Bash24]

It is always amusing to me to listen to the J Boat detractors, they are never going to build a boat (again) that will make you guys happy so why do you care what they build? I don't drink their koolaid and I don't care for a lot of their designs but that doesn't make them failures, they just don't appeal to me. I think you would have to be a bit silly to expect J Boats to come out the a the kind of sportboat that some of you guys are looking for. Only twice since the sprit boats started have they tried a balls to the wall racer and they were cool boats but financial flops. They do a good job at what they do, and that is wide market appeal, durable designs, and easy to sail. They are not about being the fastest, most extreme and most tweeky to sail. They are a big company and they expect their classes to be big.

If you don't want winches or a hatch or a backstay then go buy a viper and be happy (or a melges 20 or a shaw 650). Personaly I would hate to see J build something to go head to head with the viper because they have the clout/marketshare/popularity to roll right over that class and hurt it's growth and that would be a shame in my opinion. I don't want to see this boat hurt the melges 24 either but they are shrinking here in the US already and the boats just don't stay competitive, if the little guy wants to stay in the class for years get really good and start winning events in the 24 he will have to buy himself a new boat somewhere along the way unless he is the second coming of Slocum or something. Winches make sense on what this boat is intended for, if you want it to be inclusive and junior/kid friendly it should enable them to do that job without having to do tricks sweating the sheet in. If you don't want to use them then who cares?, they add little weight and minimal expense and it is a one design anyway, it's a J boat it's not going to be a featherweight anyway. In a real blow (~30kts) I cannot trim the spinnaker of an 80 in during a puff, the boat just doen't accelerate fast enough to unload the sheet, I imagine the 70 similar, they loads will be lighter but the trimmer may be smaller than me too. Finally I like the idea of this boat as a trainer for teaching kids about keelboats so winches and backstays are nice to have for teaching. I think the winch is too far aft too.

Finally a couple more random thoughts of mine:

-They don't make boats that please everybody but they certainly please alot of people with them.
-If you aren't smart enough to lead it to the windward winch rather than send someone down to the leeward side to grind well I just don't know what to tell you
-Yes 105's are underpowered in many conditions but do you really think they need any more horsepower for running into each other?

Totally agree with you. In addition, it has become clear to me that if you took the same drawings and pictures and replaced "J" with "Viper" or "Melges" the same people ripping on this boat would be talking about it being the next hottest thing in sailing.

[GybeSet®]

No

that would depend on how it went on the scales,
and they would be accustomed to large-ish rigs

lets see how it urns out, 1600^ would be OK

and it would have to have a larger rig than a u20 or sb3 ? ? surely

[Jagtek Performance Products]

ummm.... anything?

[Mambo Kings]

ummm.... anything?

"The project timeline calls for production to begin spring 2012 with the first shipments to North America and European J/Dealers soon thereafter. European production will start summer 2012."

In boatbuilder-speak, my guess is testing prototypes spring and summer of 2012, maybe some early demos, aiming for splashy launch sometime around Annapolis Boat show. Im sure they will be aiming to win the standard SW Boat of the year award that every new twenty something sport boat brought to the US has won.
Viper
SB3
Open 5.70
Melges 20
It will be a shock if VX doesnt win it this year and J70 win next year.

This will be a serious player in the US. Although launched in a tough economy it is a boat that will appeal to a segment of folks who want sport-boat heavier than the rocket ships and easier/lighter than the J80.

The proof will be in the execution and how it sails.

[Essex]

Schedule sounds good, after Annapolis show, few months to tune up for a big coming out at KW.
Who's got the first hull ?

[O25 dude]

Schedule sounds good, after Annapolis show, few months to tune up for a big coming out at KW.
Who's got the first hull ?

Gotta be at least 24' LOA to race at KWRW. Was just looking at their NOR again - it shows PHRF 3 as 75 - 120. I must be missing something....is that the highest rating band now?

[not growing up]

I cannot believe that with all the S/A spies around the planet that there are no pics or specs on the J70. Is this the world's best kept secret?

[crash]

Schedule sounds good, after Annapolis show, few months to tune up for a big coming out at KW.
Who's got the first hull ?

Gotta be at least 24' LOA to race at KWRW. Was just looking at their NOR again - it shows PHRF 3 as 75 - 120. I must be missing something....is that the highest rating band now?

Talking to Rod J at the Annapolis Boat Show, he seemed to think it would be no issue getting J/70 into KWRW (2013). Given they've managed to get 2 J/Boat only PHRF classes for this year, I'd bet we see the min LOA drop to 22 or 22.5 so that the 70 quals...He also projected a PHRF rating about equal to J/80...

[Ryley]

Schedule sounds good, after Annapolis show, few months to tune up for a big coming out at KW.
Who's got the first hull ?

Gotta be at least 24' LOA to race at KWRW. Was just looking at their NOR again - it shows PHRF 3 as 75 - 120. I must be missing something....is that the highest rating band now?

Talking to Rod J at the Annapolis Boat Show, he seemed to think it would be no issue getting J/70 into KWRW (2013). Given they've managed to get 2 J/Boat only PHRF classes for this year, I'd bet we see the min LOA drop to 22 or 22.5 so that the 70 quals...He also projected a PHRF rating about equal to J/80...

That would put its rating at around 114 - 120 (at least in NE), which is the same as mine. Unless this is some sort of a gift from the rating gods, this doesn't make it any more of a speedster than my 2002 Elliott. It's going to be really interesting to see how they do when they get here.

[Jambalaya]

KWRW may not exist by 2013.

I don't know what all the rush is. We've seen some photo's of the hull/mold from Mr Clean. The boat is due next year. I think we've all got more things to worry about between now and then than the latest J-Boat.

[crash]

Schedule sounds good, after Annapolis show, few months to tune up for a big coming out at KW.
Who's got the first hull ?

Gotta be at least 24' LOA to race at KWRW. Was just looking at their NOR again - it shows PHRF 3 as 75 - 120. I must be missing something....is that the highest rating band now?

Talking to Rod J at the Annapolis Boat Show, he seemed to think it would be no issue getting J/70 into KWRW (2013). Given they've managed to get 2 J/Boat only PHRF classes for this year, I'd bet we see the min LOA drop to 22 or 22.5 so that the 70 quals...He also projected a PHRF rating about equal to J/80...

That would put its rating at around 114 - 120 (at least in NE), which is the same as mine. Unless this is some sort of a gift from the rating gods, this doesn't make it any more of a speedster than my 2002 Elliott. It's going to be really interesting to see how they do when they get here.

I'd agree with you at somewhere around 120 ish. Don't think they are trying to make it any speeder then your Elliott. Trying to make it easy to trailer then a J/80 yet still be as fast even though its a bit smaller. IF speed per foot of waterline or loa is your most important priority, I think you'd need to look elsewhere.


But Jamba's right. We'll know alot more once there are some boats sailing next spring/summer....till then we're all just speculating...


And if KWRW is not letting boat in with PHRF's above 120, I think they are just accelerating their own demise...to bad, I had a good time at the one time I raced there.

[B-Slick]

Fleet price all in at $45,000. Winner or loser?

[hermetic]

Fleet price all in at $45,000. Winner or loser?

Under $50K in the water = winner.

[jrpytlak]

Fleet price all in at $45,000. Winner or loser?

Under $50K in the water = winner.

I think they'll sell a shit ton of em at that price. Decent used J80's go in the high 30's. I wonder what's going to happen to that now fast expanding fleet.... If I were in the 20 something market, I'd def think about it.

[jrpytlak]

j/boats LOOK ! engine goes here /\ /\

your customers and every subsequent owner will thank you for decades

That's so far aft, I'd rather just leave it hanging of the transom.... Also, with a cockpit locker like all the Antrim boats, you store your OB, gas, fenders, dock lines, and all the other random shit you don't want below. There are also almost no moving parts with a cockpit locker, and it is a good air space to stop the boat from fully sinkin, like the U20 in the Mac this past summer.....

[B-Slick]

"Twins" will be in the water come April.

[Curved Air]

"Twins" will be in the water come April.

Twins...does the 27 a new name and she ready for the water/coming to oakville for the 1-Design?

[B-Slick]

"Twins" means I would like something that can ramp launch so I can go to places like Oakville without take a full week off work.
Gong will splash in the spring, I am firm maybe for oakville.

[Curved Air]

"Twins" means I would like something that can ramp launch so I can go to places like Oakville without take a full week off work.
Gong will splash in the spring, I am firm maybe for oakville.

Very Cool...from Coburg it's kinda 50/50 whether sailing or towing is a better option. We can get you a trailer if you choose the later. We have one of the Wilson, NY boats confimed coming by water...70km.

[k8edidski]

J's are fun and Volvo station wagons are more fun.

Treating you to sailboatjunkyard dot com

courtesy the designer.

[mad]

J's are fun and Volvo station wagons are more fun.

Treating you to sailboatjunkyard dot com

courtesy the designer.

[8:07 to New Haven]

http://nyyc.org/home/article_1145/

NYYC jumping into the J70!

[Kent H]

That is pretty good news for J Boats. Get a number of very good sailors to race the boat and then go home and talk about it. Just so long as NYYC does not brand the boat the NYYC 22 and curse it with poor sales around the world I am sure that this event can only have positive results.

This does remind me of a post from a number of years ago that described the costs and problems of getting a new class up and running. My guess is that J Boats is providing the boats for this event. I really have to wonder just how many boats have to be sold before this becomes profitable. Almost seems like a public service. Build about 10 or so demonstrators plus shipping to various events. Make sure to send spare masts, booms, rudder and other parts. I remember the stories about the first year that Melges brought the M-24 to Key West...costly. But they did sell some boats after the event and years to come.

Of course if you have an event that needs boats give J Boats a call and see if they want to provide you with the J70 for your one design event!

[craigiri]

Starting with the regular public PR.....
http://www.newport-n...tta-this-summer

[VanFalk]

Anyone in So Cal considering the J70? I have talked to the dealer a few times and am ready to put a deposit down to hopefully have one of the first boats in the area. I am looking to build some confidence that there will be other boats coming for some class rather than mixed fleet racing this summer and fall. I am based in Long Beach.

[6924]

There are half a dozen very active Vipers in LB with more on the way. Seems to be the Sportboat of choice out there

[B-Slick]

There are half a dozen very active Vipers in LB with more on the way. Seems to be the Sportboat of choice out there

Go be a Troll on the Viper board. Oh, wait there isn't one.

[Bow Monkey]

There are half a dozen very active Vipers in LB with more on the way. Seems to be the Sportboat of choice out there

That's nice and all, but other than their size, I don't see them being hugely comparable. The Viper appeals to me because I like the athletic aspect of it. However, I'm realistic. By the time used J/70's start turning up, I'll probably appreciate a little bit more friendly (non-hiking) sporty. The 70 also has the benefit of the cabin (albeit a small one)

[Furkolkjaaf]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

[MSA]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

Really does look similar to this...

http://www.jboats.com/j80/j80dimensions.htm

No doubt they will sell a bucket load. But for the price and to sail in a sportboat fleet most Aussies will choose www.shaw650.com

Not dissing the boat.. the US has enough people to support a new one design. Australia.. not so much, so its balls and all on a flyer of a sporty.

[Furkolkjaaf]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

Really does look similar to this...

http://www.jboats.com/j80/j80dimensions.htm

No doubt they will sell a bucket load. But for the price and to sail in a sportboat fleet most Aussies will choose www.shaw650.com

Not dissing the boat.. the US has enough people to support a new one design. Australia.. not so much, so its balls and all on a flyer of a sporty.

much higher aspect ratio to the rig in my view - looks more like a mini J111

[Left Hook]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

Really does look similar to this...

http://www.jboats.co...0dimensions.htm

No doubt they will sell a bucket load. But for the price and to sail in a sportboat fleet most Aussies will choose www.shaw650.com

Not dissing the boat.. the US has enough people to support a new one design. Australia.. not so much, so its balls and all on a flyer of a sporty.

much higher aspect ratio to the rig in my view - looks more like a mini J111

There's a reason for that...

[hermetic]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

Pretty skinny fathead

[Disco Stu]

Anyone know if the rudder is going to be a "cassette" style set up? It seems to make more sense on these small keelboats that are advertised as trailer racers for quick launch and retrieval. Melges didn't do it with their 20 so the decision must not be as clear cut as it seems to me.

[Disco Stu]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

Pretty skinny fathead

Definitely not fathead. Either some false advertising going on or an out of date sail plan.

[knuckles]

Would definitely rather have one of these in the driveway in lieu of a J24.

But the Viper still looks really nice, too.

[crash]

Anyone know if the rudder is going to be a "cassette" style set up? It seems to make more sense on these small keelboats that are advertised as trailer racers for quick launch and retrieval. Melges didn't do it with their 20 so the decision must not be as clear cut as it seems to me.

Not a cassette style. Just a rudder with pintles/gugeons I think. Weight/expense/some degree of play in cassette I suspect are the reasons not to go that way....

[bshores]

Would definitely rather have one of these in the driveway in lieu of a J24.

But the Viper still looks really nice, too.

Agreed, both boats are going to appeal to a lot of people. I'm not sure how I feel about the no hiking on the J70, where I sail it blows 15-20 knts with chop on most days. Depowering with backstay only may not be enough.

[MSA]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

Really does look similar to this...

http://www.jboats.co...0dimensions.htm

No doubt they will sell a bucket load. But for the price and to sail in a sportboat fleet most Aussies will choose www.shaw650.com

Not dissing the boat.. the US has enough people to support a new one design. Australia.. not so much, so its balls and all on a flyer of a sporty.

much higher aspect ratio to the rig in my view - looks more like a mini J111

Sorry, I was referring to the boat as a whole. The 2d drawings are very similar, especially the top down view. but the renders look much different, hard to draw a conclusion..

As to the fat head.. They speak of a large Masthead crane to accommodate a Fat Head... It's just PR in reality it will probably be 300mm ish.. That's fatter than a pin head right..

[Varan]

sailplan...
great aesthetics to me


http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

Really does look similar to this...

http://www.jboats.com/j80/j80dimensions.htm

No doubt they will sell a bucket load. But for the price and to sail in a sportboat fleet most Aussies will choose www.shaw650.com

Not dissing the boat.. the US has enough people to support a new one design. Australia.. not so much, so its balls and all on a flyer of a sporty.

much higher aspect ratio to the rig in my view - looks more like a mini J111

Updated J/80. Serious contender for my dollar.

[hawaiifins]

What do you folks think about this boat versus the new Farr 25? Granted the Farr is a bit bigger but in terms of fun per boating dollar?

[Left Hook]

What do you folks think about this boat versus the new Farr 25? Granted the Farr is a bit bigger but in terms of fun per boating dollar?

Chance of developing a One Design Class: J/70 > Farr 25.

[B-Slick]

Farr 25 is a very sweet ride but you are not comparing apples to apples. Base price on the Farr is about $70,000 plus plus plus. J70 is $45,000 all in.

[Monster Mash]

Farr 25 is a very sweet ride but you are not comparing apples to apples. Base price on the Farr is about $70,000 plus plus plus. J70 is $45,000 all in.

Wasn't that a "Fleet Discount " price?

[dogwatch]

What do you folks think about this boat versus the new Farr 25?

Farr 25 is much too expensive for its size to develop as an OD in GBR and would be hopeless in IRC. Don't see the market for it - here at least.

[6924]

U20 is $40k and an Established OD class with 200+ Boats - J/70 seems a slightly heavier (slower ?) copy of the U20,.

[Varan]

U20 is $40k and an Established OD class with 200+ Boats - J/70 seems a slightly heavier (slower ?) copy of the U20,.

What u smoking, U20 is short and fat. Specs of the 70 are nothing like that.

[GybeSet®]

i think the loa difference 2' give or take

will the j/70 have smaller sails than the 20 or SB-3

there is no apparent RM aspect published yet, only features displaying a lack of ?

( no width, no crew weight, no hiking)

[PurpleOnion]

Farr 25 is a very sweet ride but you are not comparing apples to apples. Base price on the Farr is about $70,000 plus plus plus. J70 is $45,000 all in.

Wasn't that a "Fleet Discount " price?

True, but it's doubtful that the price for us regular people will be $25k higher. Different boats and different cost structures. Regardless of which is better/faster, the J70 will likely sell many more as it appeals to a much broader audience.

[Jagtek Performance Products]

Nuthin? in almost a month??

[U20guy2]

U20 is $40k and an Established OD class with 200+ Boats - J/70 seems a slightly heavier (slower ?) copy of the U20,.

What u smoking, U20 is short and fat. Specs of the 70 are nothing like that.

Please share the Specs! BY all Means PLEASE SHARE!!!

Oh wait there are non to share - darn.

[crash]

Farr 25 is a very sweet ride but you are not comparing apples to apples. Base price on the Farr is about $70,000 plus plus plus. J70 is $45,000 all in.

Wasn't that a "Fleet Discount " price?

True, but it's doubtful that the price for us regular people will be $25k higher. Different boats and different cost structures. Regardless of which is better/faster, the J70 will likely sell many more as it appeals to a much broader audience.

45k is price for anyone that puts a deposit down...There really isn't a "fleet" so how can there be a "Fleet Discount". Its good marketing terminalogy, but its really the "introductory"price. If you don't believe me, call you J boat dealer and ask....will it go up, sure if they sell strongly. I would guess that the 45k price is good thru the first 100 boats (nominal 2012 production number) assuming they sell that many this year, or thru the Annapolis Boatshow, which ever comes first. Price hike after that depending on how good sails are doing. $25k higher is ridiculous though....I'd guess closer to 2.5-5k for the base boat...which would take the base boat from just under 40 to around 42.5 or 44.9....

[crash]

U20 is $40k and an Established OD class with 200+ Boats - J/70 seems a slightly heavier (slower ?) copy of the U20,.

What u smoking, U20 is short and fat. Specs of the 70 are nothing like that.

Please share the Specs! BY all Means PLEASE SHARE!!!

Oh wait there are non to share - darn.

You mean these? Not as complete a set of dimensions as we'd like, but they are out there....

http://www.northpoin...cifications.pdf

http://www.northpoin...70_Sailplan.pdf

[Monster Mash]

U20 is $40k and an Established OD class with 200+ Boats - J/70 seems a slightly heavier (slower ?) copy of the U20,.

What u smoking, U20 is short and fat. Specs of the 70 are nothing like that.

Please share the Specs! BY all Means PLEASE SHARE!!!

Oh wait there are non to share - darn.

LOL
You know you want one.

[U20guy2]

U20 is $40k and an Established OD class with 200+ Boats - J/70 seems a slightly heavier (slower ?) copy of the U20,.

What u smoking, U20 is short and fat. Specs of the 70 are nothing like that.

Please share the Specs! BY all Means PLEASE SHARE!!!

Oh wait there are non to share - darn.

LOL
You know you want one.

Nope have no desire to own a J anything I have J bruises that will never go away thanks to that brand. Besides if I want back into the 20 something fun sport boat program I'll just go sail my old U20 and buy it back when the new owner is done with it. Built exceptionally well 1/3 the price and I know the full history of the boat including the hands that built it. Doesn't get any better than that

[JACO]

Far be it from me to spread any J love, but if you (U20) have J-bruises that will never go away they likely came from a J24, and to use an overworked line, "they've come a long way baby." ANy of the modern J's are far more user friendly than the HLB J24.

[U20guy2]

Far be it from me to spread any J love, but if you (U20) have J-bruises that will never go away they likely came from a J24, and to use an overworked line, "they've come a long way baby." ANy of the modern J's are far more user friendly than the HLB J24.

Sure they are but they weigh the same only difference is they have a little better keel and rudder and a cockpit that looks like other new designs. HA HA Like I said Jboats are nothing special in todays boat world if anything they are too generic and are far far too Marketing focused to generate a boat thats anything but Toyota generic in todays sailboat business.

I'll take a well built I550 over a J/70 any day. Far more fun - far FAR cheaper. You want family comfort and a fun ride? Heck the U20 has been doing that since 1994 at 1300lbs LOL..... So as I said what the hell is J building their boats out of? Second hand cloth and Resin with some old marine ply stuck in the decks in key places?

[U20guy2]

By the way there is nothing wrong with a Toyota of boats brand but you never see Toyota threads titled "Toyota XXX Speedster" with pages of people raving about how awesomely fast and amazingly fantastic this new Toyota will be. HA HA

[30Man]

You mean like this car made by Toyota?

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[U20guy2]

You mean like this car made by Toyota?

Since when has Jboats done a limited production special ground up one off design?
Please share?

And what about a 20ft generic $45K boat makes you think that this J/70 is Jboats idea of a ground up one off super performance boat? Please share?

[U20guy2]

And Just so everyone is clear on this. I have no issue with Jboats building a 20 footer. I have issue with people who think that a Jboat 20 footer is going to be the best thing EVER since sliced bread. Give if this new J/70 was all that there would be FAR FAR FAR more Viper owners and U20 owners racing and sailing those boats today! Simple as that.

The J/70 offers nothing special or different than what has already been sailing for years now if anything it may actually be less so than many of the boats that have been around for some time already.

Simply put the only thing the J/70 may do is generate a Marketing machine that gets fence sitters and critics of the 20 something movement off their ass and putting their money where their mouth is for a change.

[Soley]

J125, J92?

[U20guy2]

J125, J92?

The 92 was a nice boat but not one your classic J freaks went ape over and purchased 100's of. Same goes for the 125 which case I bet the bean counters at J would refer to them as flops. LOL

And neither boat was a super high performance machine so to claim that they were Jboats best foot forward on building a super fast highperformance boat would almost be an insult to the designers who work with J within the "toyota" generic comfort zone J boats built its brand around. Nothing wrong with that its the right thing to do and doesn't fit the post above about a super car comparison LOL...

[30Man]

Actually I was just standing up for Toyota. I agree with every word you have said about the J70.

[B-Slick]

Generic is what builds one design fleets. Something that J has managed to do better then any other company. Build and sell for the masses = Many boats sold = $ = more boats on the line.

[U20guy2]

Actually I was just standing up for Toyota. I agree with every word you have said about the J70.

Fair enough though you just know there are J freaks now comparing the J/70 to a one off super car design effort that had a nearly unlimited design budget HA HA...

Dude I'm so going to get this J/70 its going to be the fastest fucking 20 footer ever built!!!!!! People are even calling it a super car. LOL

[hermetic]

You're kind of an asshole

[B-Slick]

This is the most action I have seen on the J forum. Anyone want Pop corn?

[U20guy2]

The single most important J/boat event today for Jboats future sales is the J/24. More J/24 owners move up to larger Jboats than any other Jboat with the 105 probably being a close tie.

However the issue J has faced for a long time now is that the gap between owning and racing a J/24 and any of the available new Jboats is a very VERY big cost gap to swallow. You read more and more posts about former J/24 owners who now race Vipers - Melges 24's - U20's even Open's. It is this precise issue that J boats MUST without doubt come up with a lower cost entry level boat given they are effectively loosing customers because of the big gaping hole in their product line up.

So the question that will now remain is - will the younger low cost racing folks who get into the J/24's and start looking for a move to more fun - etc migrate to a J/70 or will boats like the Viper that still fit a lower cost budget and higher level of performance continue to eat Jboat business for lunch?

I don't really see the 30 something younger J/24 racing folks moving to a J/70 do you? I do see larger Jboat owners looking to down size being J70 customers.

[B-Slick]

Marketing will make this boat one of the best seller for the next 6 years. Resale value will keep the fleet going well after that.
Class rule talks should be starting soon. I am sure owner driver will be a factor.

[U20guy2]

You're kind of an asshole

Its Ok Hermetic - Id rather be an asshole than a closed minded brain washed consumer.

[U20guy2]

Marketing will make this boat one of the best seller for the next 6 years. Resale value will keep the fleet going well after that.
Class rule talks should be starting soon. I am sure owner driver will be a factor.

It would be a must have and I doubt its much of a concern by the way of owners hiring hot shots to sail a boat thats not going to be anything like a viper or Melges 24 regarding performance. LOL

The cat OD fleets are exploding with some really super cool rigs which supply the ever growing interest in speed - you have boats like the Viper which are also setting a very hard standard regarding speed and low cost fun. Simply put a boat like the J70 is about 8yrs too late regarding lots of big talent competition interest.

[B-Slick]

I agree, it is 8 years late. Should have came out head to head vs. the Melges that way there would have been half the Melges 24's sold. LOL. I think them bringing it out now is brilliant. They have sold a tone of 105, 109 ect. Their main consumer will be the kids of J owners. My Dad had a J109 so I want a J and the 70 fits my needs.

[hermetic]

You're kind of an asshole

Its Ok Hermetic - Id rather be an asshole than a closed minded brain washed consumer.

You've succeded.

You also don't understand the Northeast market

[U20guy2]

I agree, it is 8 years late. Should have came out head to head vs. the Melges that way there would have been half the Melges 24's sold. LOL. I think them bringing it out now is brilliant. They have sold a tone of 105, 109 ect. Their main consumer will be the kids of J owners. My Dad had a J109 so I want a J and the 70 fits my needs.

And that my friend is EXACTLY WHY JBoats so badly needs something like the J70 in its product line up!!! I have ZERO issue with that and they should have done it 8yrs ago!

What I do have issue with are all the fence sitters and pontificating numb nuts who probably don't have $50 let alone $45,000 to spend on such a boat. If all of these people posting how awesome this rig was truly could afford such boat the Viper fleet would be 3X the size it is now not to mention all the other 20 something fleets. LOL

[crash]

Actually I was just standing up for Toyota. I agree with every word you have said about the J70.

Fair enough though you just know there are J freaks now comparing the J/70 to a one off super car design effort that had a nearly unlimited design budget HA HA...

Dude I'm so going to get this J/70 its going to be the fastest fucking 20 footer ever built!!!!!! People are even calling it a super car. LOL

So while I might generally agree with your assesment of where the J/70 falls in the realm of performance, who exactly has said the J/70 is going to be the fastest fucking 20 footer ever built. I've read all the various J/70 threads, and not one J/Boat supporter has made that claim that I can find. The only people "making" that claim are you guys saying it won't be.

I think a closer version of the Toyota car that is a J/70 is the new Scion FRS/Subie BRZ. Only 200 hp, relatively skinny tires, etc, etc. An "elemental" sports car vice a super sports car like a porsche or corvette or that LFA someone posted.

Here in the US, the Viper's done a pretty good job at putting together a good sized fleet. Outside of that, there are lots of choices, but most haven't sold enough to really get a big fleet going a la Melges 24, Melges 20.

Just for fun at Charleston Race Week right now there are:

33 Vipers (one class)

52 Melgi (2 OD classes and 2 PHRF boats)

61 J Boats (4 OD classes and 15 PHRF boats)

6 U20s