957 replies to this topic

[U20guy2]

Actually I was just standing up for Toyota. I agree with every word you have said about the J70.

Fair enough though you just know there are J freaks now comparing the J/70 to a one off super car design effort that had a nearly unlimited design budget HA HA...

Dude I'm so going to get this J/70 its going to be the fastest fucking 20 footer ever built!!!!!! People are even calling it a super car. LOL

So while I might generally agree with your assesment of where the J/70 falls in the realm of performance, who exactly has said the J/70 is going to be the fastest fucking 20 footer ever built. I've read all the various J/70 threads, and not one J/Boat supporter has made that claim that I can find. The only people "making" that claim are you guys saying it won't be.

I think a closer version of the Toyota car that is a J/70 is the new Scion FRS/Subie BRZ. Only 200 hp, relatively skinny tires, etc, etc. An "elemental" sports car vice a super sports car like a porsche or corvette or that LFA someone posted.

Here in the US, the Viper's done a pretty good job at putting together a good sized fleet. Outside of that, there are lots of choices, but most haven't sold enough to really get a big fleet going a la Melges 24, Melges 20.

Just for fun at Charleston Race Week right now there are:

33 Vipers (one class)

52 Melgi (2 OD classes and 2 PHRF boats)

61 J Boats (4 OD classes and 15 PHRF boats)

6 U20s

And Charleston Race week is in the land of J boats. So no surprise there!

[crash]

Actually I was just standing up for Toyota. I agree with every word you have said about the J70.

Fair enough though you just know there are J freaks now comparing the J/70 to a one off super car design effort that had a nearly unlimited design budget HA HA...

Dude I'm so going to get this J/70 its going to be the fastest fucking 20 footer ever built!!!!!! People are even calling it a super car. LOL

So while I might generally agree with your assesment of where the J/70 falls in the realm of performance, who exactly has said the J/70 is going to be the fastest fucking 20 footer ever built. I've read all the various J/70 threads, and not one J/Boat supporter has made that claim that I can find. The only people "making" that claim are you guys saying it won't be.

I think a closer version of the Toyota car that is a J/70 is the new Scion FRS/Subie BRZ. Only 200 hp, relatively skinny tires, etc, etc. An "elemental" sports car vice a super sports car like a porsche or corvette or that LFA someone posted.

Here in the US, the Viper's done a pretty good job at putting together a good sized fleet. Outside of that, there are lots of choices, but most haven't sold enough to really get a big fleet going a la Melges 24, Melges 20.

Just for fun at Charleston Race Week right now there are:

33 Vipers (one class)

52 Melgi (2 OD classes and 2 PHRF boats)

61 J Boats (4 OD classes and 15 PHRF boats)

6 U20s

And Charleston Race week is in the land of J boats. So no surprise there!

Jeez, I thought that Key West was supposed to be the land of J/Boats

[U20guy2]

Key west is big Jboat but it attracts just as many if not more others for the big wind and wave fun in warm water.

[craigiri]

You're kind of an asshole

Its Ok Hermetic - Id rather be an asshole than a closed minded brain washed consumer.

So you're just a different kind of brain washed consumer???

[U20guy2]

You're kind of an asshole

Its Ok Hermetic - Id rather be an asshole than a closed minded brain washed consumer.

So you're just a different kind of brain washed consumer???

Yes I buy whatever happens to be the best deal going I could care less what fucking brand it is.

[knuckles]

You're kind of an asshole

Its Ok Hermetic - Id rather be an asshole than a closed minded brain washed consumer.

You've succeded.

You also don't understand the Northeast market

Or the SoCal market. The boats will pretty much sell themselves with a little push (like the 105's). A J/105 is not a great boat for SoCal, but a ton of them made their way there.

[Dewey Devil]

J/Boats long ago extracted their revenue out of the J/22 and J/24, but continue to maintain brand loyalty and camaraderie amongst the J sailor community; for that they deserve much credit. I'm looking forward to seeing the J/70 hit the water (and the 30 yr old+ J/22 and J/24 head towards the retirement home).

As a former J/24 owner who sold all my boats when I went to B-school, then got divorced (should have sold the ex) and started crewing on sportboats, I'm ready to use my finally cash flow positive position and new home base in Boston to see what fleets:

1) have to best time, driving interest in sailors to crew and helping new owners dial in boatspeed
2) have frequent, well attended competitive local racing
3) build a fleet infrastructure and community that promotes regional circuit racing

Of course, the sportboat should be fun for skipper and crew alike and easy to dry sail and travel with.

Given the decline of the Melges 24 and the irrelevance of the U20 (outside LNYC), it seems to me my regional sportboat choices are:

Existing fleets:

- J/80
- Viper

Fleets that could reach critical mass:

- J/70
- Melges 20 (I have no idea if this is even true)

Any other prospective Boston region J/70 owners out there? What's the word on the street?

[us7070]

even with the viper, people mostly have to trailer their boat somewhere to race against other vipers.

i think the J/70 will sell well enough that there will be local fleet racing, without trailering - at least in new england.

racing any boat this size in anything other than a one-design fleet is kind of pointless.

[RockHead]

even with the viper, people mostly have to trailer their boat somewhere to race against other vipers.

i think the J/70 will sell well enough that there will be local fleet racing, without trailering - at least in new england.

racing any boat this size in anything other than a one-design fleet is kind of pointless.

Sorry to interrupt a J/Boat thread, but uh, fact check on the above, regarding the Northeast-

There are currently 50+ Vipers between Larchmont, NY and Marblehead, MA. A couple more being delivered in March. Active fleet racing in Larchmont (LYC), Greenwich/Stamford (IHYC/SYC), small fleet in Stonington, active fleets in Newport & Marblehead. Interest at Cedar Point YC.


There are regional regattas at most of those fleet locations. 50-60 Vipers expected at the NA's in Marblehead in September. There are 50 Viper regattas on the class calendar across North America this season. And if you do want to travel, the Viper is terribly easy to travel with. 2 experienced hands can have a Viper ready to launch 30 minutes after pulling in to a regatta. Plus, you can tow one with a Subaru Impreza or Toyota Camry. Fast, easy and fun in every way.

Apologies again for the interruption, back to J/70's!

[U20guy2]

even with the viper, people mostly have to trailer their boat somewhere to race against other vipers.

i think the J/70 will sell well enough that there will be local fleet racing, without trailering - at least in new england.

racing any boat this size in anything other than a one-design fleet is kind of pointless.

Sorry to interrupt a J/Boat thread, but uh, fact check on the above, regarding the Northeast-

There are currently 50+ Vipers between Larchmont, NY and Marblehead, MA. A couple more being delivered in March. Active fleet racing in Larchmont (LYC), Greenwich/Stamford (IHYC/SYC), small fleet in Stonington, active fleets in Newport & Marblehead. Interest at Cedar Point YC.


There are regional regattas at most of those fleet locations. 50-60 Vipers expected at the NA's in Marblehead in September. There are 50 Viper regattas on the class calendar across North America this season. And if you do want to travel, the Viper is terribly easy to travel with. 2 experienced hands can have a Viper ready to launch 30 minutes after pulling in to a regatta. Plus, you can tow one with a Subaru Impreza or Toyota Camry. Fast, easy and fun in every way.

Apologies again for the interruption, back to J/70's!

^ this is my point the J/70 concept as OD has a problem regarding price point along with the typical type of sailing a 20ft no cabin type boat is going to be used for. Regardless of what money bags people are sporting there are far far more folks who view the sport boat type concept as a boat you attend events with. The people who look at any sporty looking boat and think day sail generally migrate to something less intimidating and are not at all interested in OD racing. The J unless it at some level competes with the aspects the Viper already does VERY well at - is going to have a limited audience which will involve more parked out back for the occasional day sail mr money bags type vs the OD racer looking for quick - priced pretty good and easily transported option like the Viper.

So it will be very interesting to see just exactly what J boats finally comes up with either they will step up the performance plan possibly scare off some old J customers for new customers or they will hit a compromised middle ground which with J pricing will result in a boat that doesn't really offer a better value than a used J/22 other than a new cockpit layout and asymmetric kite for a steeper price.

[us7070]

who said anything about daysailing?

i just want a boat that i can race without trailering..., unless i want to.

I insist on OD racing - won't consider anything else...

what's wrong with the notion of an OD fleet of sportboats developing at a club, or a few nearby clubs, so people can just go down to their club, get a few races in, have a beer, and go home?

if this is happening with the viper - great! are you saying that larchmont has regular OD racing in vipers? i was unaware of that, but if it's true, it's a great development.

traveling to regattas is great, but i don't want to do it every weekend.

my guess is that for new england, the J/70 has the best chance of making this happen.

[hermetic]

who said anything about daysailing?

i just want a boat that i can race without trailering..., unless i want to.

I insist on OD racing - won't consider anything else...

what's wrong with the notion of an OD fleet of sportboats developing at a club, or a few nearby clubs, so people can just go down to their club, get a few races in, have a beer, and go home?

if this is happening with the viper - great! are you saying that larchmont has regular OD racing in vipers? i was unaware of that, but if it's true, it's a great development.

traveling to regattas is great, but i don't want to do it every weekend.

my guess is that for new england, the J/70 has the best chance of making this happen.

There are many fleets of antiquated keelboats in the predominately light air NE that the J70 should have a chance of displacing - pretty much everthing except the E22 in my opinion.

It needs to be able to go upwind in light air and slop like the E22.
The masthead assy should get it to the leward mark
Three crew, throw in a kid as fourth
It needs to go on the trailer with the keel up easily, and without damaging the strut
No owner driver rule, this just lessens the competition

Shoving the current boats toward the dumpster (J24, sonar, shields, R19, Atlantic) has proven difficult, but introducing this at half the price of an E22 might work. Something has to, and I haven't seen it yet.

[RockHead]

what's wrong with the notion of an OD fleet of sportboats developing at a club, or a few nearby clubs, so people can just go down to their club, get a few races in, have a beer, and go home?

if this is happening with the viper - great! are you saying that larchmont has regular OD racing in vipers? i was unaware of that, but if it's true, it's a great development.

AYC has a fleet of 20 2-person K6's. LYC has 9-10 Vipers and two at the shop waiting to be picked up, plus 1 on order. Rumour from the LYC Viper fleet is that it may grow by an additional 4-6 this season. Both fleets race OD pretty much every weekend from what I understand. http://larchmontyc.o....shtml#Viper640 From that page, "Shields, Viper 640s, S-Boats, Etchells and IODs race mostly on Saturdays but often have Sat/Sun regattas."

[EYESAILOR]

You're kind of an asshole

Its Ok Hermetic - Id rather be an asshole .

HA HA


Not quite sure what the relevance of HA HA is, but you use it a lot and it just seemed an apt response.

[EYESAILOR]

even with the viper, people mostly have to trailer their boat somewhere to race against other vipers.

i think the J/70 will sell well enough that there will be local fleet racing, without trailering - at least in new england.

racing any boat this size in anything other than a one-design fleet is kind of pointless.

Sorry to interrupt a J/Boat thread, but uh, fact check on the above, regarding the Northeast-

There are currently 50+ Vipers between Larchmont, NY and Marblehead, MA. A couple more being delivered in March. Active fleet racing in Larchmont (LYC), Greenwich/Stamford (IHYC/SYC), small fleet in Stonington, active fleets in Newport & Marblehead. Interest at Cedar Point YC.


There are regional regattas at most of those fleet locations. 50-60 Vipers expected at the NA's in Marblehead in September. There are 50 Viper regattas on the class calendar across North America this season. And if you do want to travel, the Viper is terribly easy to travel with. 2 experienced hands can have a Viper ready to launch 30 minutes after pulling in to a regatta. Plus, you can tow one with a Subaru Impreza or Toyota Camry. Fast, easy and fun in every way.

Apologies again for the interruption, back to J/70's!

I have the utmost respect for what the Vipers have done in our corner of the world. Kudos. It is the only sport 20' with local fleet od racing in more than one location and you seem to have plenty of momentum. BUT take note that a lot of people are also attracted to the concept of a limited hiking sport boat.

For whatever reason Rondar seems to be segmenting their hiking audience between two quite similar boats, the K6 and the Viper. For the non hiking crowd, there will be only one boat in the North East. The SB3 has gone away. The Melges 20 is getting zero traction as a local boat. If the J70 is a half way decent boat, it will own an undivided segment of the market.

[sfsportboat]

I keep trying to figure out what else I would buy?

I raced a Moore 24 (I'm in SF Bay Area)for about 4 years and loved it except that it was a handful in big breeze with the conventional chute and I still needed 5 of us to be competitive. Also, no planing. Closest we got was 14kts (probably was planing) under the south tower of the GG bridge on the way back in from the Farralons in the clutches of the south tower demon.

I could even get my own boat back for 15K but:
I want a modern sprit boat,
I want to plane, I want to trailer it (but not have it sit 10 feet above ground)

[GybeSet®]

I have the utmost respect for what the Vipers have done in our corner of the world. Kudos. It is the only sport 20' with local fleet od racing in more than one location and you seem to have plenty of momentum. BUT take note that a lot of people are also attracted to the concept of a limited hiking sport boat.

For whatever reason Rondar seems to be segmenting their hiking audience between two quite similar boats, the K6 and the Viper. For the non hiking crowd, there will be only one boat in the North East. The SB3 has gone away. The Melges 20 is getting zero traction as a local boat. If the J70 is a half way decent boat, it will own an undivided segment of the market.

the J/70 is NOT a LIMITED HIKING boat
it does not say that, ? where ?

this boats hiking gear is visually set up the same as a Melges 24, as is most of the rest of the boat
imo the viper will be more comfortable to be on upwind

Three crew, throw in a kid as fourth

also where are the crew restrictions other than the advertising blurb "it can be sailed with ....."

what can it be raced with, is there a bodies or weight limit ? what is being proposed

[hermetic]

I have the utmost respect for what the Vipers have done in our corner of the world. Kudos. It is the only sport 20' with local fleet od racing in more than one location and you seem to have plenty of momentum. BUT take note that a lot of people are also attracted to the concept of a limited hiking sport boat.

For whatever reason Rondar seems to be segmenting their hiking audience between two quite similar boats, the K6 and the Viper. For the non hiking crowd, there will be only one boat in the North East. The SB3 has gone away. The Melges 20 is getting zero traction as a local boat. If the J70 is a half way decent boat, it will own an undivided segment of the market.

the J/70 is NOT a LIMITED HIKING boat
it does not say that, ? where ?

this boats hiking gear is visually set up the same as a Melges 24, as is most of the rest of the boat
imo the viper will be more comfortable to be on upwind

Three crew, throw in a kid as fourth

also where are the crew restrictions other than the advertising blurb "it can be sailed with ....."

what can it be raced with, is there a bodies or weight limit ? what is being proposed

We're kind of voicing opinions on what will work in the Northeast of the United States - not stating some kind of inside knowledge - so relax.

There are lots of tradeoffs that are unknown
- if it's sit in hiking, it'll need a bigger bulb, which means it'll be harder to retract for hoisting/storing/trailering
- if it's sit out, there'll still be two sitting in because most people can't steer and play the main at the same time
- there's only enough jobs for three, which is alot easier to get out on the water every weekend than four is

It will be interesting to see it in action this spring in Newport. There is a huge market that has not gone the way of the Viper.

[crash]

I have the utmost respect for what the Vipers have done in our corner of the world. Kudos. It is the only sport 20' with local fleet od racing in more than one location and you seem to have plenty of momentum. BUT take note that a lot of people are also attracted to the concept of a limited hiking sport boat.

For whatever reason Rondar seems to be segmenting their hiking audience between two quite similar boats, the K6 and the Viper. For the non hiking crowd, there will be only one boat in the North East. The SB3 has gone away. The Melges 20 is getting zero traction as a local boat. If the J70 is a half way decent boat, it will own an undivided segment of the market.

the J/70 is NOT a LIMITED HIKING boat
it does not say that, ? where ?

this boats hiking gear is visually set up the same as a Melges 24, as is most of the rest of the boat
imo the viper will be more comfortable to be on upwind

Three crew, throw in a kid as fourth

also where are the crew restrictions other than the advertising blurb "it can be sailed with ....."

what can it be raced with, is there a bodies or weight limit ? what is being proposed

We're kind of voicing opinions on what will work in the Northeast of the United States - not stating some kind of inside knowledge - so relax.

There are lots of tradeoffs that are unknown
- if it's sit in hiking, it'll need a bigger bulb, which means it'll be harder to retract for hoisting/storing/trailering
- if it's sit out, there'll still be two sitting in because most people can't steer and play the main at the same time
- there's only enough jobs for three, which is alot easier to get out on the water every weekend than four is

It will be interesting to see it in action this spring in Newport. There is a huge market that has not gone the way of the Viper.

Here's my pure WAG...

Hiking will be legs out, but class rules will prohibit "hanging" from the lifeline a la the Melges....
Class racing limit will be 3 for regional events, somewhere around 550 to 600lbs. For regional events (non qualifiers) a 4th "family/kid" crew member will be allowed for free (under ~ 90lbs)

But that's my opinion only, with no inside knowledge either...

[sfsportboat]

The rest of my comment...
I keep trying to figure out what else I would buy?

I raced a Moore 24 (I'm in SF Bay Area)for about 4 years and loved it except that it was a handful in big breeze with the conventional chute and I still needed 5 of us to be competitive. Also, no planing. Closest we got was 14kts (probably was planing) under the south tower of the GG bridge on the way back in from the Farralons in the clutches of the south tower demon.

I could even get my own boat back for 15K but I want:
-a modern sprit boat
-to plane when its honking
-to trailer it (but not have it sit 10 feet above ground)
-to sail PHRF (so it needs to be sailable to it's rating)and for us 19.5 feet and 400 lbs in keel.
-to race OD and travel with the boat
-to be able to pull it with my family SUV
-to take the fam out for a day sail w/out too much drama
-to race with just 3 on the boat
-to not have to hang off the rail by my guts to be competitive (Legs out good)
-to be able to put up the mast relatively easily with two people.
-to launch with a lift or by ramp
-Reasonably small sails (so they don't cost so much)
-Have the boat be big enough to store sails below, porta potty and dry area.
-Need storage for the outboard

Moore 24
No planing, high on the trailer, no asym, mast tough to put up with two, ramp launch tough (great phrf and cheap)

J80
high on trailer, ramp launch tough, tough phrf from what i've read. About to get a lot cheaper IMO!

Melges 24
Don't like the hanging by the kidneys on the rail, MIGHT be a bit too squirelly Otherwise hits all the boxes.

U20/24
Design a bit dated and I don't see many around? Otherwise checks all the boxes. Particularly the 24 but again not in
production?

Viper
Again my perception is it's a bit much to handle with the kids/fam. More of a (high) performance dingy.

Am I missing any?

For these reasons I'm thinking the J70 is really an updated J80 which I think will be a big hit. I'm certainly going to wait and see how they turn out before I buy anything else.

If I could afford a Columbia C32 I'd look into that but its a bit pricy for me and the spartan interior would take a big sales job on the wife. I would love it if they came up with a way to put in some furnature that I could reasonably take out for the 90% of the time it's just boys racing but goes in when I show the wife or for the 3 days a year we do a family overnight!

[crash]

The rest of my comment...
I keep trying to figure out what else I would buy?

I raced a Moore 24 (I'm in SF Bay Area)for about 4 years and loved it except that it was a handful in big breeze with the conventional chute and I still needed 5 of us to be competitive. Also, no planing. Closest we got was 14kts (probably was planing) under the south tower of the GG bridge on the way back in from the Farralons in the clutches of the south tower demon.

I could even get my own boat back for 15K but I want:
-a modern sprit boat
-to plane when its honking
-to trailer it (but not have it sit 10 feet above ground)
-to sail PHRF (so it needs to be sailable to it's rating)and for us 19.5 feet and 400 lbs in keel.
-to race OD and travel with the boat
-to be able to pull it with my family SUV
-to take the fam out for a day sail w/out too much drama
-to race with just 3 on the boat
-to not have to hang off the rail by my guts to be competitive (Legs out good)
-to be able to put up the mast relatively easily with two people.
-to launch with a lift or by ramp
-Reasonably small sails (so they don't cost so much)
-Have the boat be big enough to store sails below, porta potty and dry area.
-Need storage for the outboard

Moore 24
No planing, high on the trailer, no asym, mast tough to put up with two, ramp launch tough (great phrf and cheap)

J80
high on trailer, ramp launch tough, tough phrf from what i've read. About to get a lot cheaper IMO!

Melges 24
Don't like the hanging by the kidneys on the rail, MIGHT be a bit too squirelly Otherwise hits all the boxes.

U20/24
Design a bit dated and I don't see many around? Otherwise checks all the boxes. Particularly the 24 but again not in
production?

Viper
Again my perception is it's a bit much to handle with the kids/fam. More of a (high) performance dingy.

Am I missing any?

For these reasons I'm thinking the J70 is really an updated J80 which I think will be a big hit. I'm certainly going to wait and see how they turn out before I buy anything else.

If I could afford a Columbia C32 I'd look into that but its a bit pricy for me and the spartan interior would take a big sales job on the wife. I would love it if they came up with a way to put in some furnature that I could reasonably take out for the 90% of the time it's just boys racing but goes in when I show the wife or for the 3 days a year we do a family overnight!

A Dart, but no OD likely for that one...unfortunately, and Jim I hope I'm proved wrong....

[us7070]

I have the utmost respect for what the Vipers have done in our corner of the world. Kudos. It is the only sport 20' with local fleet od racing in more than one location and you seem to have plenty of momentum. BUT take note that a lot of people are also attracted to the concept of a limited hiking sport boat.

For whatever reason Rondar seems to be segmenting their hiking audience between two quite similar boats, the K6 and the Viper. For the non hiking crowd, there will be only one boat in the North East. The SB3 has gone away. The Melges 20 is getting zero traction as a local boat. If the J70 is a half way decent boat, it will own an undivided segment of the market.

the J/70 is NOT a LIMITED HIKING boat
it does not say that, ? where ?

this boats hiking gear is visually set up the same as a Melges 24, as is most of the rest of the boat
imo the viper will be more comfortable to be on upwind

Three crew, throw in a kid as fourth

also where are the crew restrictions other than the advertising blurb "it can be sailed with ....."

what can it be raced with, is there a bodies or weight limit ? what is being proposed

We're kind of voicing opinions on what will work in the Northeast of the United States - not stating some kind of inside knowledge - so relax.

There are lots of tradeoffs that are unknown
- if it's sit in hiking, it'll need a bigger bulb, which means it'll be harder to retract for hoisting/storing/trailering
- if it's sit out, there'll still be two sitting in because most people can't steer and play the main at the same time
- there's only enough jobs for three, which is alot easier to get out on the water every weekend than four is

It will be interesting to see it in action this spring in Newport. There is a huge market that has not gone the way of the Viper.

Here's my pure WAG...

Hiking will be legs out, but class rules will prohibit "hanging" from the lifeline a la the Melges....
Class racing limit will be 3 for regional events, somewhere around 550 to 600lbs. For regional events (non qualifiers) a 4th "family/kid" crew member will be allowed for free (under ~ 90lbs)

But that's my opinion only, with no inside knowledge either...

i think 3 crew with a 550lb limit would be a big problem...

[blisster]

...want:
-a modern sprit boat
-to plane when its honking
-to trailer it (but not have it sit 10 feet above ground)
-to sail PHRF (so it needs to be sailable to it's rating)and for us 19.5 feet and 400 lbs in keel.
-to race OD and travel with the boat
-to be able to pull it with my family SUV
-to take the fam out for a day sail w/out too much drama
-to race with just 3 on the boat
-to not have to hang off the rail by my guts to be competitive (Legs out good)
-to be able to put up the mast relatively easily with two people.
-to launch with a lift or by ramp
-Reasonably small sails (so they don't cost so much)
-Have the boat be big enough to store sails below, porta potty and dry area.
-Need storage for the outboard

A-fucking-men.

[Varan]

I have the utmost respect for what the Vipers have done in our corner of the world. Kudos. It is the only sport 20' with local fleet od racing in more than one location and you seem to have plenty of momentum. BUT take note that a lot of people are also attracted to the concept of a limited hiking sport boat.

For whatever reason Rondar seems to be segmenting their hiking audience between two quite similar boats, the K6 and the Viper. For the non hiking crowd, there will be only one boat in the North East. The SB3 has gone away. The Melges 20 is getting zero traction as a local boat. If the J70 is a half way decent boat, it will own an undivided segment of the market.

the J/70 is NOT a LIMITED HIKING boat
it does not say that, ? where ?

this boats hiking gear is visually set up the same as a Melges 24, as is most of the rest of the boat
imo the viper will be more comfortable to be on upwind

Three crew, throw in a kid as fourth

also where are the crew restrictions other than the advertising blurb "it can be sailed with ....."

what can it be raced with, is there a bodies or weight limit ? what is being proposed

We're kind of voicing opinions on what will work in the Northeast of the United States - not stating some kind of inside knowledge - so relax.

There are lots of tradeoffs that are unknown
- if it's sit in hiking, it'll need a bigger bulb, which means it'll be harder to retract for hoisting/storing/trailering
- if it's sit out, there'll still be two sitting in because most people can't steer and play the main at the same time
- there's only enough jobs for three, which is alot easier to get out on the water every weekend than four is

It will be interesting to see it in action this spring in Newport. There is a huge market that has not gone the way of the Viper.

Here's my pure WAG...

Hiking will be legs out, but class rules will prohibit "hanging" from the lifeline a la the Melges....
Class racing limit will be 3 for regional events, somewhere around 550 to 600lbs. For regional events (non qualifiers) a 4th "family/kid" crew member will be allowed for free (under ~ 90lbs)

But that's my opinion only, with no inside knowledge either...

I was thinking more along the lines of four regular sized sailors, three US sized. 22s sail with three, 24s five, 80s four. The cockpit should handle four with no problem. Guess we will have to wait and see. Any updates on displacement? Published specs still show 1600 lbs, dealer says it will be more like 1800.

[GybeSet®]

- if it's sit in hiking, it'll need a bigger bulb, which means it'll be harder to retract for hoisting/storing/trailering

It is NOT, this is a forum myth

quote "padded lifelines",. also see them in the renders, they are not all-round but stop where the (cloned) Melges do

- if it's sit out, there'll still be two sitting in because most people can't steer and play the main (edit: and the backstay) at the same time

no, have a look around

go to a j/24 (or m24) regatta, google images even

"most people" DO, this is an unfortunate reality when racing and better hiking alternatives are not available, J with the 24 racing actually invented and is responsible for this less than ideal scenario, unfortunately with very little else to go in the US the Ms ran with it.

3 will not do on a narrower boat unless in light wind venues

I think the weight will go, and will need to go North of where it is (published) now

[us7070]

why does anyone need an outboard on a boat like this?

i can't see why any design consideration should be given to storing one, and i certainly hope the class rules don't require one.

[Jagtek Performance Products]

quoting J website:

Creature comforts come in many forms on the J/70. The 11' long cockpit and moderate height boom allow easy crew movement across the cockpit while tacking and jibing. For sitting and hiking comfort, mid-height padded backrests/lifelines run cockpit length, making J/70 one of the most comfortable boats to helm without having to rely on hiking straps to keep you in the boat.

http://www.jboats.co...deckcockpit.htm


I read that as legs in. I'm considering this boat and legs-in is a must. Love that on the M20, but the boat doesn't go upwind very well in breeze.

Trimming main and driving should no be a problem for just about anyone who has sailed a small boat.... not sure what the problem is here.

[sfsportboat]

Outboard makes sense...

1) You want racers to be able to get out to the race course before the wind comes up. We have boats coming for miles in all
directions.
2) The race committee doesn't want to be faced with 15 boats with no outboards becalmed in 4 kts of current as the sun is setting.
If no outboards then no late afternoon racing.
3) You want it in the rules so that everyone has the same burden and the one guy who gets towed out doesnt clean up or that #2
above happens.
4) You want the designers to put a freakin box in the cockpit for it so you don't have to wrestle it below in 3 foot chop and
get gas in the bilge, ding the gelcoat with the prop on the way down and throw out your back.

Not that that ever happens...

[Alternative]

So, for comparison this is an opinion on class weight limits that feels right.

Laser SB3 - 270Kg
J/80 - 338.6Kg
Melges 24 - 360Kg

J/70 - 300Kg right?

Simply, that gives me 2 couple sailing together, or three big fellas. Whatever the choice on crew this makes it easy to build the fleets we all need. Much less weight will hurt sales, no doubt. Plus a round number and less emphasis on crazy dieting before class events.

Just saying

[us7070]

Outboard makes sense...

1) You want racers to be able to get out to the race course before the wind comes up. We have boats coming for miles in all
directions.
2) The race committee doesn't want to be faced with 15 boats with no outboards becalmed in 4 kts of current as the sun is setting.
If no outboards then no late afternoon racing.
3) You want it in the rules so that everyone has the same burden and the one guy who gets towed out doesnt clean up or that #2
above happens.
4) You want the designers to put a freakin box in the cockpit for it so you don't have to wrestle it below in 3 foot chop and
get gas in the bilge, ding the gelcoat with the prop on the way down and throw out your back.

Not that that ever happens...

sorry but i don't agree

plenty of sportboats race without motors

motors are a pain in the ass - i hate them...

not every boat is suitable for every sailing location..., and it might be that where you sail, motors are necessary...,

but that doesn't mean they have to screw it up for everyone else.

[crash]

So, for comparison this is an opinion on class weight limits that feels right.

Laser SB3 - 270Kg
J/80 - 338.6Kg
Melges 24 - 360Kg

J/70 - 300Kg right?

Simply, that gives me 2 couple sailing together, or three big fellas. Whatever the choice on crew this makes it easy to build the fleets we all need. Much less weight will hurt sales, no doubt. Plus a round number and less emphasis on crazy dieting before class events.

Just saying

661.3867865546327 lbs is a round number:huh:

but yeah, that might just get you 2 couples...close anyway...

[U20guy2]

Last I checked the Moor24 did plain - and is historically known for being FANTASTIC in big wind and easily handled hence why lots of them race solo from SF to Hawaii and many are sailed solo in the Coastal races. So I really do question SFSports boat's experience given the two things he says the Moor24 is a problem are the two things it is HIGHLY respected for. LOL

He just missed out on the deal of a century with Jim's Dart deal which case I would venture to Guess SFSport boat guy couldn't afford a J/70 even at the intro special handshake price.

And if he had the money he could have a Antrim 25 built that far far surpasses anything coming out of the J-shed

[sfsportboat]

Didn't say they were a problem... The Moore 24 is a great big wind/down wind boat considering it was designed in 1972. My beef is that they don't plane like any kind of modern sport boat. Not saying it's impossible. With enough power, it can happen which is why I said in my post "Probably planing." Unless by "Plain..." you mean something that has to do with growing wheat.

Don't get me wrong, Moore 24's are great boats. Especially when you consider they were designed in 1972, and I really had no issues other than a max speed of 14kts that one day in a gust that was probably 35kts. These days it seems that 14kts is not all that uncommon (especially in SF Bay with 25kts all summer) which is why I'm looking at buying something more modern.

Dart saga. I'm much more confident that there will be a fleet of J70's to race in SF before there are a fleet of Darts. No skin off the Dart: I think it's a very cool boat and agree wholehaeartedly with another poster who said that if Jboats were promoting it as a J81 (or whatever) it would be a no brainer. But there IS something to say for being Jboats and it DOES matter when you go to sell it or if you expect other people to buy 'em so you can have a fleet which is very hard to pull off.

Antrim 25? Isn't that the Ultimate 24? Looks good but is pretty much non existent right? Click on the Antrim 25 class association link if you want to buy drugs from China. Why the hell would I have one built for 50K and then be the third guy in SF Bay with one if I want to sail OD? What then? Hope some other guys with 50K order a custom boat too? That's moronic.

U20s were cool back when they were cool but now they are an old design.

Now that aside: I admit to lusting after the GP26. But again: Aint no.

[sfsportboat]

Outboards...

If they don't make sense in your area than your fleet doesn't use 'em and you fill the cockpit motor box with Ice and Beer?

Cockpit Ice and Beer box makes plenty of sense if you don't need and outboard!

[sfsportboat]

First of the twins. Looks sweet!

[Monster Mash]

^^
Looking good

Btw, I hear there's one on the way to the bay Area.. Yours?

[trenace]

So, for comparison this is an opinion on class weight limits that feels right.

Laser SB3 - 270Kg
J/80 - 338.6Kg
Melges 24 - 360Kg

J/70 - 300Kg right?

Well, if the published SA/D is based on the published displacement, then the sail area is 282 square feet.

If your 300 kg has its overall balance point pretty much on the rail or pretty close and the boat has a bulb like the Melges or reasonably close anyway, that should work.

But the boat would do better if allowed the J/80 max crew weight.

[GybeSet®]

So, for comparison this is an opinion on class weight limits that feels right.

Laser SB3 - 270Kg
J/80 - 338.6Kg
Melges 24 - 360Kg

J/70 - 300Kg right?

Simply, that gives me 2 couple sailing together, or three big fellas. Whatever the choice on crew this makes it easy to build the fleets we all need. Much less weight will hurt sales, no doubt. Plus a round number and less emphasis on crazy dieting before class events.

Just saying

661.3867865546327 lbs is a round number:huh:

but yeah, that might just get you 2 couples...close anyway...

really
how on earth can you work out if this has any relation to reality, when you do not know the bulb weight, let alone the displacement of the boat

they are all part of the RM equation,

before arriving at the eventual bulb weight the boat needs to be sailed/tested, they will i believe, but will they test it in a venue with REAL breeze ?

?

[Alternative]

So, for comparison this is an opinion on class weight limits that feels right.

Laser SB3 - 270Kg
J/80 - 338.6Kg
Melges 24 - 360Kg

J/70 - 300Kg right?

Well, if the published SA/D is based on the published displacement, then the sail area is 282 square feet.

If your 300 kg has its overall balance point pretty much on the rail or pretty close and the boat has a bulb like the Melges or reasonably close anyway, that should work.

But the boat would do better if allowed the J/80 max crew weight.

GybeSet is right. With the bulb weight tuned to allow the boat to be sailable with a crew weight of 300Kg in 20kts plus, we'd have a great boat. But that's the whole point of testing in all wind and wave conditions, up to the max. I'd be more than happy with the same crew weight as J/80 (I can easily sail with 5 at that limit) - definitely in 20kts plus that would be a huge advantage. But with a modern carbon, tuneable, well set-up rig should not really be required.

As I expect we'd be towing this thing around a fair bit, practically 4 x crew in one car or small SUV, is way easier & less expense to manage than 5 for most of us.

[Jem]

small enough number to fit in one car is the way forward - a real big pull

[Jagtek Performance Products]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

[us7070]

Outboards...

If they don't make sense in your area than your fleet doesn't use 'em and you fill the cockpit motor box with Ice and Beer?

Cockpit Ice and Beer box makes plenty of sense if you don't need and outboard!

as long as outboards are not required for class events, i don't mind if they have a box.

it's a sailboat..., not a motor boat...

[Monster Mash]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

+1

[TooTall]

Outboards are a requirement in our region because of the commercial traffic.

[sfsportboat]

^^
Looking good

Btw, I hear there's one on the way to the bay Area.. Yours?

No I'm going to have to sail one first before I commit. I hope like hell they ARE going to send one out West before too long.

Here's the latest news I have (Yesterday)...

The first two J/70s are quickly taking shape at CCF Composites and all systems are "go" for launching and sea-trials later this month. Work begins shortly on a second set of production molds and the production schedule is on track for subsequent hulls to complete starting in mid/late April. European tooling is on its way across the northern Atlantic to Les Sables d'Olonne, France.

J/70 customer demo sails can be booked now through your local J/Dealer. Starting April 14th we will be offering customer demos in Rhode Island on J/70 #1. Meanwhile J/70 #2 heads south for display/ demonstration at Charleston Race Week, April 19-22. Don Trask (djtboats@aol.com or ph#704-799-1830) is leading this charge and all J/Dealers are encouraged to invite clients who are attending CRW to check out the J/70 on site. Next on the calendar is the Annapolis NOOD Regatta May 4-6, where Northpoint Yacht Sales will be displaying the J/70, contact Ken Comerford (ken@northpointyachtsales.com) or Dave Malkin (David@northpointyachtsales.com) or ph#410-280-2038 for more details. For more J/70 Speedster sailing information

BAY AREA INTEREST?
I know you're a SF Bay guy and I think there is another. I wonder how many of us might be thinking J70 in the Bay from the get go?
Might be a good thing to figure out and band together for a demo then maybe a deal? Sure would make it more fun to pop a SF Bay Fleet together from the get-go provided the boat doesn't disappoint.

[JACO]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

+1 as well
U guy certainly has a hard-on for J-bashing.

[Jagtek Performance Products]

I don't want to speak out of turn for Pat Nolan and the Sail California crew, but apparently they have 2 on the way. Don't know if they are spoken for, or are sales tools. I'm interested in one, but getting married this year, might have to wait for the 2013 season at the earliest, more likely 2014. I have another buddy from college sailing days interested in starting up a campaign as well. Need to see how SF fleet develops. I think it really depends on how it sails in 25kt.

[sfsportboat]

Yep that's the key. We do it in 25kts with chop all summer long. I was just up at the boat show in Marina Villiage and saw the new J111 (Freakin sweet boat) which I can only imagine is a Sail Cal boat. If they've got that in inventory, it wouldn't surprise me a bit if they had a couple 70's on order.

If the boat sails well then I'm interested in one too.

[GybeSet®]

I think it really depends on how it sails in 25kt.

3-up ? what do you think the chances are

can they race with 5 adults ?

[crash]

I think it really depends on how it sails in 25kt.

3-up ? what do you think the chances are

can they race with 5 adults ?

This will be an interesting conundrum. BAck here on the Ches Bay, we rarely see races in the 25 kt range. 2.5 kts is more likely, and 8-10 during the summer is good breeze. 12-15 in the fall is maybe average. So maybe the crew limit will be a compromise between the two. 4 good sized guys...it will hurt some in the light air areas (more than you need) and hurt some in the big breeze areas (not as many as you'd like)....it could race with five, I think there's enough room for that many, but as earlier commenters pointed out, 4 in the same car is alot easier than 2 cars and 5 when travelling..

[Alternative]

[quote name='Jem' timestamp='1330695041' post='3608208']
small enough number to fit in one car is the way forward - a real big pull
[
The new Owner/Driver/Driver rule of course would add some spice on the way home from class events.

[U20guy2]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

+1 as well
U guy certainly has a hard-on for J-bashing.

Just like bashing the stupid OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat people before the thing even exists yet posters.

Anyone look at the Three Bridge Fiasco results? Take a look and get back to me on the Antrim Dated comment.

[crash]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

+1 as well
U guy certainly has a hard-on for J-bashing.

Just like bashing the stupid OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat people before the thing even exists yet posters.

Anyone look at the Three Bridge Fiasco results? Take a look and get back to me on the Antrim Dated comment.

Show just one post in which someone has said "OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat..." Just one ok? Jeez, if someone doesn't say the J/70 is going to suck, you seem to think that means they think it will be the greatest boat ever. No one, in either thread that I've read has said that yet. No one has said it will dust a Viper, no one has said it will crush a U20. You don't like them. Great. You get to not like them. But just say that, and stop trying to pretend its because people keep saying "OMG this is going to be a FREAKING cool boat" okay? Just say you don't like it, and you don't think it will amount to much, and you think J is all marketing with no performance to back it up. Then we can have a rational discussion about it...

[trenace]

I dunno, J Boat just had a press release about the boat's smoking hot buttocks, all the foam left by its afterburners, etc...

Surely at least someone somewhere believes the crap that's coming out from J Boats on this model.

Remember how they were touting its amazingly sweet handling, before it had ever hit water?

[crash]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

+1 as well
U guy certainly has a hard-on for J-bashing.

Just like bashing the stupid OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat people before the thing even exists yet posters.

Anyone look at the Three Bridge Fiasco results? Take a look and get back to me on the Antrim Dated comment.

And not to bash the U20 in anyway, which I think is a neat boat....but there were only 2 in the race that I can see. 23 and 67 in the double handed division. The lone U24 was 46th. Very Respectable certainly in a class with 250 finishers (Top boat in top 10%, all in top 1/3rd). But the J-80 in single handed was 10 of 30 so its in the top 1/3 of its class too. And there were way more J/Boats racing then there where Ultimate 20& 24/Antrims 27s...

[Monster Mash]

I dunno, J Boat just had a press release about the boat's smoking hot buttocks, all the foam left by its afterburners, etc...

Surely at least someone somewhere believes the crap that's coming out from J Boats on this model.

Remember how they were touting its amazingly sweet handling, before it had ever hit water?

Link please.

[Varan]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

+1 as well
U guy certainly has a hard-on for J-bashing.

Just like bashing the stupid OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat people before the thing even exists yet posters.

Anyone look at the Three Bridge Fiasco results? Take a look and get back to me on the Antrim Dated comment.

Show just one post in which someone has said "OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat..." Just one ok? Jeez, if someone doesn't say the J/70 is going to suck, you seem to think that means they think it will be the greatest boat ever. No one, in either thread that I've read has said that yet. No one has said it will dust a Viper, no one has said it will crush a U20. You don't like them. Great. You get to not like them. But just say that, and stop trying to pretend its because people keep saying "OMG this is going to be a FREAKING cool boat" okay? Just say you don't like it, and you don't think it will amount to much, and you think J is all marketing with no performance to back it up. Then we can have a rational discussion about it...

It will crush a U20.... there, I said it.

[hermetic]

I dunno, J Boat just had a press release about the boat's smoking hot buttocks, all the foam left by its afterburners, etc...

Surely at least someone somewhere believes the crap that's coming out from J Boats on this model.

Remember how they were touting its amazingly sweet handling, before it had ever hit water?

The 111 had the same hype out before it hit the water, and they sold what? 21 to 24 million worth of those in a little over a year?

If Jeff and Art don't screw the pooch on the final roll out, I can see them selling 5 to10 million worth of these in the same time frame.

And Jeff and Art are pretty smart guys, as well as very good sailors - they won't screw the pooch.

[GybeSet®]

.
theres a shitload of wigger speak in those press releases, is Clean on the J/take

[crash]

I dunno, J Boat just had a press release about the boat's smoking hot buttocks, all the foam left by its afterburners, etc...

Surely at least someone somewhere believes the crap that's coming out from J Boats on this model.

Remember how they were touting its amazingly sweet handling, before it had ever hit water?

I suspect not from JBoats...maybe a super PAC of rival sportboat builders:lol:

Real US J/Boats blog:
http://www.jboats.com/blog/jblog.html

[trenace]

I dunno, J Boat just had a press release about the boat's smoking hot buttocks, all the foam left by its afterburners, etc...

Surely at least someone somewhere believes the crap that's coming out from J Boats on this model.

Remember how they were touting its amazingly sweet handling, before it had ever hit water?

Link please.

http://jsailingnews....-29th-2012.html

Yes, J Boats Australia not US, but still.

It does turn out that the buttocks were firm and powerful and it was the foam off of the afterburners that was "smokin'" rather than the buttocks being smoking hot. So I did accidentally misquote there.

Still, that's some seriously embarrassing sales-weasel crap.

[Jagtek Performance Products]

I think it really depends on how it sails in 25kt.

3-up ? what do you think the chances are

can they race with 5 adults ?

I'm hoping the chances are pretty good. I look at this boat as a modern interpretation of the j22. The j22 gets pretty scary in 25kt, but I think that's more due to the hull shape/sym chute making the boat get squirelly down wind. Upwind, you can manage the 22 in 25kt if you set the boat up right. I hope this boat sails nicely with 3 or 4 as long as you're at max weight. In my experience, when sailing on a legs in boat, the number of bodies doesn't really matter as much as just being at max weight. On a legs out boat, sailing with 4 light or 3 heavy makes a difference because a greater percentage of the weight is hiking legs out if you're sailing with 4.

In reality, I don't mind hanging from a wire. Just tough it out, who cares, it's not THAT painful. The REAL reason I enjoy legs in is the team aspect. It's great to have 3 or 4 people sitting there talking about tactics and strategy the whole time; I find that to be a much more enjoyable experience. I've sailed on just about every type of boat under the sun from prams to 505s, small melgi, big melgi, Jboat tubs, and 70' rockets. When I'm buying a boat for myself, I really don't care if it's anywhere close to the fastest boat out there. I want it to be build with good quality, be easy to set up and maintain, be high enough performance to be fun, but provide great close reliable OD racing with a solid fleet. Racing handicap i.e. 3 bridge fiasco is fun, but in my book that's 2nd tier racing that i'm going to be doing with a beer in my hand - I would love it if I could do some handicap racing in a j70 as a casual event. I love racing in the Knarrs on Wednesday night because some of the best sailors in the bay are out there duking it out rounding the leeward mark on lap 2 with 4 boats overlapped. I'm looking for a new, fresh, cheaper, faster version of that.



Oh and u20guy, Hank Easom wins just about every handicap event in the bay with a like a 90 yr old design, antrim performance in a crap shoot bay tour means nothing to me. You've had 18 years to attract the best bay area sailors to your 1 design fleet in the u20. It's not working out. Just drop it. Yelling about how bad the j70 is going to be is not going to make everyone buy a u20. In my experience, people like you really just aren't that good, and you make up for that by being a big baby.

[Varan]

Hey U20 guy... Your spewing fire to everyone on the internet is really going to build a great OD fleet of old Antrims. I can hear the new orders piling up. Why don't you tell us more about performance sailing?

+1 as well
U guy certainly has a hard-on for J-bashing.

Just like bashing the stupid OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat people before the thing even exists yet posters.

Anyone look at the Three Bridge Fiasco results? Take a look and get back to me on the Antrim Dated comment.

Show just one post in which someone has said "OMG this is going to be A FREAKING cool boat..." Just one ok? Jeez, if someone doesn't say the J/70 is going to suck, you seem to think that means they think it will be the greatest boat ever. No one, in either thread that I've read has said that yet. No one has said it will dust a Viper, no one has said it will crush a U20. You don't like them. Great. You get to not like them. But just say that, and stop trying to pretend its because people keep saying "OMG this is going to be a FREAKING cool boat" okay? Just say you don't like it, and you don't think it will amount to much, and you think J is all marketing with no performance to back it up. Then we can have a rational discussion about it...

It will crush a U20.... there, I said it.

Okay, now that I said it, I must confess... watch for a mostly U20 in the doubled dammed. Don't think I'd do that with a 45k J70, at least not mine.

[GybeSet®]

I dunno, J Boat just had a press release about the boat's smoking hot buttocks, all the foam left by its afterburners, etc...

Surely at least someone somewhere believes the crap that's coming out from J Boats on this model.

Remember how they were touting its amazingly sweet handling, before it had ever hit water?

I suspect not from JBoats...maybe a super PAC of rival sportboat builders:lol:

Real US J/Boats blog:
http://www.jboats.com/blog/jblog.html

Yes, J Boats Australia not US, but still.

It does turn out that the buttocks were firm and powerful and it was the foam off of the afterburners that was "smokin'" rather than the buttocks being smoking hot. So I did accidentally misquote there.

Not AUS copy !

Real J/boats newsletter ( no country suffix )
http://www.jboats.co...ing-newsletter/

it's from J/boats ( although all newsletter links do link back to *.au )

its full of U.S. phone numbers, places and (future) dates to see the boat, prefixed with ( Newport R.I. )


In AUS 'molds' would be "moulds"
it's also jn the N.A. vernacular, i.e. "what's not to like" you won't find much in AUS
also borderline wigger speak ( 'Baby J' 'Sweet little ride' ) is not downunder

also Aussies know Js aren't traditionally "rocketships" and locals wouldn't try that one on, blatant unsupported sensationalism would immediately set off downunder bullshit meters and wouldn't help sales, imo

[USA190520]

I think it really depends on how it sails in 25kt.

3-up ? what do you think the chances are

can they race with 5 adults ?

I'm hoping the chances are pretty good. I look at this boat as a modern interpretation of the j22. The j22 gets pretty scary in 25kt, but I think that's more due to the hull shape/sym chute making the boat get squirelly down wind. Upwind, you can manage the 22 in 25kt if you set the boat up right. I hope this boat sails nicely with 3 or 4 as long as you're at max weight. In my experience, when sailing on a legs in boat, the number of bodies doesn't really matter as much as just being at max weight. On a legs out boat, sailing with 4 light or 3 heavy makes a difference because a greater percentage of the weight is hiking legs out if you're sailing with 4.

In reality, I don't mind hanging from a wire. Just tough it out, who cares, it's not THAT painful. The REAL reason I enjoy legs in is the team aspect. It's great to have 3 or 4 people sitting there talking about tactics and strategy the whole time; I find that to be a much more enjoyable experience. I've sailed on just about every type of boat under the sun from prams to 505s, small melgi, big melgi, Jboat tubs, and 70' rockets. When I'm buying a boat for myself, I really don't care if it's anywhere close to the fastest boat out there. I want it to be build with good quality, be easy to set up and maintain, be high enough performance to be fun, but provide great close reliable OD racing with a solid fleet. Racing handicap i.e. 3 bridge fiasco is fun, but in my book that's 2nd tier racing that i'm going to be doing with a beer in my hand - I would love it if I could do some handicap racing in a j70 as a casual event. I love racing in the Knarrs on Wednesday night because some of the best sailors in the bay are out there duking it out rounding the leeward mark on lap 2 with 4 boats overlapped. I'm looking for a new, fresh, cheaper, faster version of that.



Oh and u20guy, Hank Easom wins just about every handicap event in the bay with a like a 90 yr old design, antrim performance in a crap shoot bay tour means nothing to me. You've had 18 years to attract the best bay area sailors to your 1 design fleet in the u20. It's not working out. Just drop it. Yelling about how bad the j70 is going to be is not going to make everyone buy a u20. In my experience, people like you really just aren't that good, and you make up for that by being a big baby.

+1

[timber]

...want:
-a modern sprit boat
-to plane when its honking
-to trailer it (but not have it sit 10 feet above ground)
-to sail PHRF (so it needs to be sailable to it's rating)and for us 19.5 feet and 400 lbs in keel.
-to race OD and travel with the boat
-to be able to pull it with my family SUV
-to take the fam out for a day sail w/out too much drama
-to race with just 3 on the boat
-to not have to hang off the rail by my guts to be competitive (Legs out good)
-to be able to put up the mast relatively easily with two people.
-to launch with a lift or by ramp
-Reasonably small sails (so they don't cost so much)
-Have the boat be big enough to store sails below, porta potty and dry area.
-Need storage for the outboard

The j70 is at that awkward size range, too big to be small too small to be big. And I'll WAG agree that the rules will cap the fun of just sailing .

A-fucking-men.

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[Steam Flyer]

... ...

It does turn out that the buttocks were firm and powerful and it was the foam off of the afterburners that was "smokin'" rather than the buttocks being smoking hot. ...

One would think J-boats would know how mix resin correctly by now


FB- Doug

[albaston]

The J/70 Speedster (22.75 feet) is J/Boats' first ramp-launchable keelboat - designed to fulfill the growing need for an easy-to-own, high performance one-design that is exciting to sail, stable enough sailboat for the family, and built to last. With fleet discussions underway around the world, J/70 is on-track to take the world by storm in 2012.

[JACO]

I dunno, J Boat just had a press release about the boat's smoking hot buttocks, all the foam left by its afterburners, etc...

Surely at least someone somewhere believes the crap that's coming out from J Boats on this model.

Remember how they were touting its amazingly sweet handling, before it had ever hit water?

The 111 had the same hype out before it hit the water, and they sold what? 21 to 24 million worth of those in a little over a year?

If Jeff and Art don't screw the pooch on the final roll out, I can see them selling 5 to10 million worth of these in the same time frame.

And Jeff and Art are pretty smart guys, as well as very good sailors - they won't screw the pooch.

Who's Art?
Or do you mean Al?

[hermetic]

Correct.

They all look alike.

[Varan]

Another pic

[hermetic]

Looks like a pretty wide sheeting angle on the jib.

Maybe a high cut clew and inhaul.

[GybeSet®]

I think it really depends on how it sails in 25kt.

3-up ? what do you think the chances are

can they race with 5 adults ?

I'm hoping the chances are pretty good. I look at this boat as a modern interpretation of the j22. The j22 gets pretty scary in 25kt, but I think that's more due to the hull shape/sym chute making the boat get squirelly down wind. Upwind, you can manage the 22 in 25kt if you set the boat up right. I hope this boat sails nicely with 3 or 4 as long as you're at max weight. In my experience, when sailing on a legs in boat, the number of bodies doesn't really matter as much as just being at max weight. On a legs out boat, sailing with 4 light or 3 heavy makes a difference because a greater percentage of the weight is hiking legs out if you're sailing with 4.

In reality, I don't mind hanging from a wire. Just tough it out, who cares, it's not THAT painful. The REAL reason I enjoy legs in is the team aspect. It's great to have 3 or 4 people sitting there talking about tactics and strategy the whole time; I find that to be a much more enjoyable experience. I've sailed on just about every type of boat under the sun from prams to 505s, small melgi, big melgi, Jboat tubs, and 70' rockets. When I'm buying a boat for myself, I really don't care if it's anywhere close to the fastest boat out there. I want it to be build with good quality, be easy to set up and maintain, be high enough performance to be fun, but provide great close reliable OD racing with a solid fleet. Racing handicap i.e. 3 bridge fiasco is fun, but in my book that's 2nd tier racing that i'm going to be doing with a beer in my hand - I would love it if I could do some handicap racing in a j70 as a casual event. I love racing in the Knarrs on Wednesday night because some of the best sailors in the bay are out there duking it out rounding the leeward mark on lap 2 with 4 boats overlapped. I'm looking for a new, fresh, cheaper, faster version of that.



Oh and u20guy, Hank Easom wins just about every handicap event in the bay with a like a 90 yr old design, antrim performance in a crap shoot bay tour means nothing to me. You've had 18 years to attract the best bay area sailors to your 1 design fleet in the u20. It's not working out. Just drop it. Yelling about how bad the j70 is going to be is not going to make everyone buy a u20. In my experience, people like you really just aren't that good, and you make up for that by being a big baby.

1. it's not legs in
2. with the ?proposed? ( is this just a selling point?) 3 people they will be hiking and you'll be back with the traveller, mainsheet and possibly the backstay, J24 like, they will be at Bmax


again you gotta query how the boat will stand up to it's sails

will the 'real' racing crew weight be announced at a much later stage, what will it be ?

[ekolnskungen]

And the price in Europe will be? =)

[LarryE]

Just got an email from a friend who did a lot of the engineering on the boat. He and his wife went up to see the boat sail last weekend and she said it is really sweet, on the water.

[B-Slick]

Pics or it didn't happen.

[ekolnskungen]

+1

[LarryE]

Don't have pictures, they will released by J Boats.

[Blur]

We’re very pleased to report that thanks to an incredible weather window J/70 hull #1 splashed (ahead of schedule) for some initial sea-trialing on Narragansett Bay earlier this week. In a few words… a sweet ride! She has jets upwind and down, is stable, easy to handle and a joy to steer. Many more details to follow as we continue internal evaluations and lock in final hardware and rigging specs with suppliers, etc… Sailmaker trials begin next week, with some of the top one-design sailmakers in the industry traveling to RI to put the first two boats through their paces and lock in the final class sail sizes and fine tune their sail shapes.

Since we can hardly talk about the J/70 launching without showing a picture or two, here’s a quick peek of hull #1 sailing in the summer-like light southwesterly we had on Wednesday…

[narecet]

Has jets, eh?

It's a nice surprise that they're saying it's a sweet ride, as well.

Looks like it's planing at a speed of about 3 knots. Impressive having jets like that when the air is that light.

[Monster Mash]

Its kinda plain Jane looking without the graphics. Good to see they put a proper set of sails on for the first splash (unlike Columbia 32).
Reports of 100+ orders so far. I like.

[ekolnskungen]

High boom is comfy but the main looks kinda small?
But it looks really "sweet" =)

[sfsportboat]

Baby J111... Main does look a tad small but the boat overall has nice lines... It may be that chute that's making it look small IMO>
Chute looks great and I'm pleased it's a mast-head sail.

[ekolnskungen]

Yeah, the kite looks big. But whats the sail area?

[Left Hook]

Stu, it's Wes from PShip. I know you're reading this. I want to sail this boat and I'm living in Bristol. I know I'm not in the market now but I will be some day... how do I get out?

[GybeSet®]

High boom is comfy but the main looks kinda small?
But it looks really "sweet" =)

how could the upwind SA be big ? Has to carry it

whats the 'splash' weight ? bulb ?

[knuckles]

She is a pretty little boat. Typical J/Boat sheerline, too.

[ragbag]

She is a pretty little boat. Typical J/Boat sheerline, too.

The top picture (without kite) made me do a double take, looks just like my old J/90 'Ragtime'....looks like a fun, sweet little boat to tool around in...

[MisterMoon]

Looks like a pretty wholesome little boat to me. I'd take one. Methinks they just sold their last J/80.

(Note to self: make bigger bonus next year.)

[USA190520]

Oh it's time to sell my motorcycles...

[Icebear]

Looks like it's planing at a speed of about 3 knots.

I can assure you it is not planing at 3 knots.

[narecet]

I suppose it depends on how one uses the words planing, jets, or afterburners.

But perhaps I should have written, "showing its jets at 3 knots."

[Icebear]

Its not the 3 knots that is suspect, its the notion that it is planing. Displacement hull speed should be about 6 knots.

[narecet]

Well it may be that the advertising-speak hasn't yet made 3 knots planing, but still it seems to be showing "jets."

[dinghydock]

Stu, it's Wes from PShip. I know you're reading this. I want to sail this boat and I'm living in Bristol. I know I'm not in the market now but I will be some day... how do I get out?

This is not Stu but demo sails start April 14th. Contact your local J Dealer to sign up.

[Left Hook]

Stu, it's Wes from PShip. I know you're reading this. I want to sail this boat and I'm living in Bristol. I know I'm not in the market now but I will be some day... how do I get out?

This is not Stu but demo sails start April 14th. Contact your local J Dealer to sign up.

Thx for the heads up. If I get desperate then I have a phone number but since I'm not a buyer (yet) I doubt they'd want to hear from me.

And I know you're not stu, his handle is different

[nroose]

The top picture (without kite) made me do a double take, looks just like my old J/90 'Ragtime'....looks like a fun, sweet little boat to tool around in...

I think this is the best post of the thread. Now I understand! The J/70 is a little sister for the J/90!

[PurpleOnion]

The top picture (without kite) made me do a double take, looks just like my old J/90 'Ragtime'....looks like a fun, sweet little boat to tool around in...

I think this is the best post of the thread. Now I understand! The J/70 is a little sister for the J/90!

If you back up far enough, the 7 could easily look like a 9.

[dacapo]

Stu, it's Wes from PShip. I know you're reading this. I want to sail this boat and I'm living in Bristol. I know I'm not in the market now but I will be some day... how do I get out?

Stu, it's Mike....Wes won;t have the cash for a J70 anytime in the near decade. By the time he does, you'll have a newer model that he'll want instead ;-)....ps...he pukes on the transoms of boats he doesn;t own, so I'd think long and hard about letting him on the boat

[Presuming Ed]

From North's facebook page. https://www.facebook.../northonedesign


No sliding hatch. Is it an alloy boom? Dacron main.

And how long before comments about soaking with tack line eased.....