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J24 speed


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#1 stinger

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 01:07 PM

Just wondering what the top speed of a j24 would be upwind and downwind? I know about hull speed, but I don't know what the hull speed is for the j24.
Thanks
J

#2 tq2000

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 01:52 PM

http://www.j24blog.c...5/j24_polar.pdf

#3 stinger

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 02:02 PM

Thanks.

#4 BalticBandit

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 05:56 PM

Thanks.


Note that at around 20 knots, the J-24 can start to plane downwind and this changes the Polars

#5 jrpytlak

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:25 PM


Thanks.


Note that at around 20 knots, the J-24 can start to plane downwind and this changes the Polars



Really? I'm no J24 guy, but I'd think they could surf waves.... Not really plane. That's a lotta weight/wetted area for that sail area/waterline to plane.

#6 stinger

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 06:35 PM


Thanks.


Note that at around 20 knots, the J-24 can start to plane downwind and this changes the Polars


I'd be interested to hear your insight on this. We went out in 25+ constant with puffs in the mid 30s and we were definitely planing. But yesterday at 20 knots, it was more surfing...
Cheers

#7 Trov„o

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Posted 13 June 2011 - 08:58 PM

"j24" and "speed" in the same sentence is kind of an oxymoron imho.

#8 J24_guy

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:05 AM

Fair enough, but where are you going to get competition at this level in sport boats? Hmmm, I guess Melges 24s are pretty darn close as far as competitiveness. But those sure don't last very long went wrung out hard. J24s are eternal. (Eternally slow, perhaps, but eternal!)

J24s aren't about speed per se, they're about *relative* speed. They're still one of the all-time classic challenges in sailing. Of course I suppose the same could be said of Optis!




"j24" and "speed" in the same sentence is kind of an oxymoron imho.



#9 mainsheetgirl

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:17 AM

They can sink at a rate that exceeds their hull speed.

#10 learningj24

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 11:25 AM



Thanks.


Note that at around 20 knots, the J-24 can start to plane downwind and this changes the Polars



Really? I'm no J24 guy, but I'd think they could surf waves.... Not really plane. That's a lotta weight/wetted area for that sail area/waterline to plane.


The boat can start really planing at around 25kts true. When J-22's came out, what we noticed first was that they could start planing at 18 and we couldn't keep up until the wind picked up. At around 30-35kts, you can go about as fast with the jib winged out as the spinnaker, Only in the lulls would the spin boats start legging out.

The beauty of the boat is, like the Laser, you can bomb around in anything up to 50kts without the boat exploding into shards of carbon and kevlar.

#11 BDA_Moose

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 05:57 PM




Thanks.


Note that at around 20 knots, the J-24 can start to plane downwind and this changes the Polars



Really? I'm no J24 guy, but I'd think they could surf waves.... Not really plane. That's a lotta weight/wetted area for that sail area/waterline to plane.


The boat can start really planing at around 25kts true. When J-22's came out, what we noticed first was that they could start planing at 18 and we couldn't keep up until the wind picked up. At around 30-35kts, you can go about as fast with the jib winged out as the spinnaker, Only in the lulls would the spin boats start legging out.

The beauty of the boat is, like the Laser, you can bomb around in anything up to 50kts without the boat exploding into shards of carbon and kevlar.


??? dude, I've actually been on a J/24 in over 50, it's not pretty but yeah, I guess the boat is still in one piece

A 24 will do 12+ in 20kt beam reaching with the kite up

#12 BalticBandit

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 05:59 PM




Thanks.


Note that at around 20 knots, the J-24 can start to plane downwind and this changes the Polars



Really? I'm no J24 guy, but I'd think they could surf waves.... Not really plane. That's a lotta weight/wetted area for that sail area/waterline to plane.


The boat can start really planing at around 25kts true. When J-22's came out, what we noticed first was that they could start planing at 18 and we couldn't keep up until the wind picked up. At around 30-35kts, you can go about as fast with the jib winged out as the spinnaker, Only in the lulls would the spin boats start legging out.

The beauty of the boat is, like the Laser, you can bomb around in anything up to 50kts without the boat exploding into shards of carbon and kevlar.

Depends on sea-state. In short steep chop, the surf off one wave can be enough to get the bow up and planing. I've been able to plane in 20, though its on and off.... mostly its been 25+ and a couple of times in 35+

#13 class flag up

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 05:27 AM

True/False: J/24s will go upwind in 40

#14 learningj24

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 11:14 AM

True/False: J/24s will go upwind in 40


Absolutely. I've raced them (not just survived on them) in 50kts. That said, I've only done it on lakes where the sea state is comparitively flat.

#15 BDA_Moose

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 12:08 PM

True/False: J/24s will go upwind in 40



Definitely - your main will be baby soft by the end of the day as well

#16 learningj24

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 01:28 PM


True/False: J/24s will go upwind in 40



Definitely - your main will be baby soft by the end of the day as well



Crunch all you want. We'll make more.

#17 BalticBandit

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 04:53 PM



True/False: J/24s will go upwind in 40



Definitely - your main will be baby soft by the end of the day as well



Crunch all you want. We'll make more.


And there's a non-zero chance that the window on your jib will be blown out :-)

Most wind I've sailed a J-24 in waves was 45knots measured (from the shoreside VTS beacon we sailed within 100yds of). We were sailing PHRF so we were limited by # of people not crew weight and I had 3 big burly guys on the side, and my own fat but hiked to weather. We had the jib with the cars about 2" AFT of the shrouds, traveller all the way up, vang blown and backstay on as tight as TWO of us could pull it, and even then we were on our ear over every 6' square wave...

Yes my main was no longer good for OD racing after that one.

but when we turned the corner (and the breeze was down to a manageble 35) the way we went by 40'ers as though they were standing still was just a hoot. the boat is quite stable when the bow wave is just ahead of the keel :-) I still get a SEG when I remember that race.

The 50+ knotter was on a lake where the weather mark was 1/4 mile downwind of a floating highway bridge that smooths the water. The anemometer on the bridge was reporting gusts to 60mph, steady 52mph. Flat water makes such a huge huge difference...

#18 Jkondz

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 06:19 PM




True/False: J/24s will go upwind in 40



Definitely - your main will be baby soft by the end of the day as well



Crunch all you want. We'll make more.


And there's a non-zero chance that the window on your jib will be blown out :-)

Most wind I've sailed a J-24 in waves was 45knots measured (from the shoreside VTS beacon we sailed within 100yds of). We were sailing PHRF so we were limited by # of people not crew weight and I had 3 big burly guys on the side, and my own fat but hiked to weather. We had the jib with the cars about 2" AFT of the shrouds, traveller all the way up, vang blown and backstay on as tight as TWO of us could pull it, and even then we were on our ear over every 6' square wave...

Yes my main was no longer good for OD racing after that one.

but when we turned the corner (and the breeze was down to a manageble 35) the way we went by 40'ers as though they were standing still was just a hoot. the boat is quite stable when the bow wave is just ahead of the keel :-) I still get a SEG when I remember that race.

The 50+ knotter was on a lake where the weather mark was 1/4 mile downwind of a floating highway bridge that smooths the water. The anemometer on the bridge was reporting gusts to 60mph, steady 52mph. Flat water makes such a huge huge difference...


what was your boat speed avg and top?

#19 BalticBandit

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Posted 15 June 2011 - 06:54 PM

what was your boat speed avg and top?

Not really sure. The only instruments I carried on the 24 were a sailcomp and a waterproof VHF.

Course distance was roughly 21 nautical miles http://archive.cycse...pslargessi.html and we completed it in roughly 3:45. I assumed that our upwind speed was down around 4 knots over effectively 13 miles. So that means we covered the 11 mile downwind in roughly 1/2 hour.

I know the numbers sound ludicrous, so I've been trying to find the actual records of the race (back in 1988or 89) to be able to sort out the times but no luck so far.

Essentially our start was at about 9:50am and we finished around 1:30-1:45 PM.

#20 ducky

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 12:05 AM

BB, I've always respected you, but 22kt ave. for 1/2 hr? BS

#21 BalticBandit

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Posted 16 June 2011 - 01:35 AM

BB, I've always respected you, but 22kt ave. for 1/2 hr? BS

Like I said, the numbers sound ludicrous - I know. And the reality is that I'm going on timing in my memory from 25 years ago.

OTOH, we went by a 40'er that had started at least 15 minutes ahead of us and had clearly rounded the weather mark probably the better part of an hour ahead of us, about 1/3 of the way into the downwind leg and they appeared to be standing still. And I've since then raced against this boat and seen her do steady 12's with surfs to high teens in wind conditions like that.

My best REAL guess is that we probably took about 45 minutes to do the downwind leg because the "upwind" course wasn't exactly upwind AND we were able to use at least two favourable current eddies of about 2 knots each.

That puts our sustained top speed at around 16knots...

Like I said, no instruments so I want to see the actual times - since I'd rather have something independent I can point to and say "We Went THAT FAST"....

All I know is that the bow wave literally was at the leading edge of the keel, since one of the boats we passed told us at the after party that they saw the leading 1/3 of our keel break out of the wave...




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