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Green Comm Challenge. No. 9.


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#101 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 06:17 PM

At the time our Short memory Whining Sailor was saying GC had a leash.

Peelman was saying GC was a poodle of EB.

He was asking a few questions, maybe the Or fans could still to answer it:

Peelman: You're kidding right :) Yep, Cloud time will give CVG millions of $ to pay their programs past bills & their new bills.

Peter Huston : Zero....it would be great if you get an interview with this team and ask them:

When will they start construction on their boat?

Who is in their sailing team?

What made them decide to announce their challenge just before the last court hearing?

Peelman: Add - Who's funding them? Do they have at least $20M in the bank?



So, the Bor fans could ask questions at the time that we should not ask now ???

Amusing, very amusing................................................................................LMAO

#102 EaglesPDX

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 06:21 PM

GGYC appears to be a pleasant dining facility that occasionally runs some racing. I'm not knocking it but there is absolutely no comparison to the "senior" clubs that have traditionally been involved


Except the yacht club have historically NOT been involved vs. a wealthy member making an America's Cup challenge and, per the rules of America's Cup, using his yacht club as the named "challenger". Only exceptions were the New York Yacht Club in the 12M era when it was "team of millionaires" within the club and Royal New Zealand YC where again wealthy members combined with sponsors and public donations were involved.

America's Cup history from Schulyer to Morgan to Vanderbilt to Turner to Koch to Ellison has been of the yacht clubs as vehicles for wealthy patrons. Same is true on the challenger side from Sopwith to Lipton to Bonds to Bertarelli to Torbjorn Tornqvist. Even on Emirates side it's King Mohammed bin Rashid al Maktoum who is the billionaire behind the boat.

#103 Stingray

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 07:19 PM

A differently-flavored piece, g-tran: http://translate.goo..._1it&prmd=ivnso

#104 SW Sailor

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 07:57 PM

At the time... blah blah, blah....

Amusing, very amusing.

Whats actually amusing is your inability to differentiate a third team coming in from left field posing a challenge in the middle of a DOG legal battle, vs a challenger entering a MC event with 8 other challengers.

Since you continually profess to be the expert on the deed and the protocol even you should be able to figure this out, but I guess you'd rather troll instead.

#105 valenciasailing

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 08:19 PM

I will stream live the press conference from the Valencia yacht club. It starts at 5pm Valencia time (Thursday, 23 June).

From what I understand the conference will be conducted in Spanish and English.

#106 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 09:28 PM


At the time... blah blah, blah....

Amusing, very amusing.

Whats actually amusing is your inability to differentiate a third team coming in from left field posing a challenge in the middle of a DOG legal battle, vs a challenger entering a MC event with 8 other challengers.

Since you continually profess to be the expert on the deed and the protocol even you should be able to figure this out, but I guess you'd rather troll instead.


You attacked Green Comm because the challenge, as a third team, did not suit GGYC.

You now defend it because it suits GGYC.

And................................ you will attack it if you think it does not suit GGYC, perhaps because EB could be behind.

That is the "moral superiority " that you defend. Hypocrits.

#107 Stingray

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Posted 22 June 2011 - 10:03 PM

I will stream live the press conference from the Valencia yacht club. It starts at 5pm Valencia time (Thursday, 23 June).

From what I understand the conference will be conducted in Spanish and English.

That's great, thanks for the notice. Will be the first Chall announcement live streamed, good job.

#108 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 12:54 AM

g-tran

http://translate.goo...ne=284&sezione=

Giovanni Soldini yesterday in Turin, intervened as a speaker at a conference at the Polytechnic (Navigating: art, technology, environment) also spoke about the American Cup. Saying, without beating about the bush, that he the new formula, the multihull, built by Russell Coutts, "like".
It is an opinion that the Italian face of the wing had expressed several times previously. Indeed, the America's Cup has never been so tender. "Finally you multihulls, fast boats and modern. I was sick of those monohulls designed a century ago. What if they go faster than 12 knots touch ... No, I'm sure the Cup in multihulls will be more interesting and more fun, "he said.
Net also thought the last edition, won by the Oracle with the maxi-trimaran and catamaran Alinghi on the rigid wing. "I think they have won not because of the rigid wing, which was a plus, but the choice of platform. A trimaran, which is much more resistant than the catamaran, and is faster. The Swiss have responded moreover cat with a very light, the Americans have put the load on the table by a giant tree. "

#109 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 01:00 AM

g-tran

http://translate.goo...84%26sezione%3D

Giovanni Soldini yesterday in Turin, intervened as a speaker at a conference at the Polytechnic (Navigating: art, technology, environment) also spoke about the American Cup. Saying, without beating about the bush, that he the new formula, the multihull, built by Russell Coutts, "like".

Soldini must have close ties to GR, through Marco Nannini:

http://www.italiavela.it/articolo.asp?idarticolo=class-40-fastnet-con-nannini-soldini_11081

#110 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 02:15 AM

Here's a wild rumor, probably just wishful thinking?

http://translate.goo...dr:w&prmd=ivnso


.. Another rumor suggests that tomorrow is expected to publicize the project to coincide with the Formula One because the union could be behind the billionaire Bernie Ecclestone.

#111 PeterHuston

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 02:49 AM

Here's a wild rumor, probably just wishful thinking?

http://translate.goo...%26prmd%3Divnso


.. Another rumor suggests that tomorrow is expected to publicize the project to coincide with the Formula One because the union could be behind the billionaire Bernie Ecclestone.


Well, hell, if we are talking about rumors and Bernie Ecclestone we might as well have one about his daughter buying the Spelling house in LA and some connection to all this too - don't ask me how, but I'm sure TC will find some way to tie this together with Red Bull and Green Comm and SWS.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/gossip/2011/06/petra-ecclestone-candy-spelling-tori-house-holmby-hills-estate.html

#112 dogwatch

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:03 AM

Fact of the matter, no yacht club does anything more than serve as a placeholder for an America's Cup team and lend it legitimacy.


On that we can agree. Let's leave the AC33 history there.

#113 EaglesPDX

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:39 AM

You attacked Green Comm because the challenge, as a third team, did not suit GGYC.
You now defend it because it suits GGYC.
And................................ you will attack it if you think it does not suit GGYC, perhaps because EB could be behind.
That is the "moral superiority " that you defend. Hypocrits.

You defended Green Comm because the challenge, as a third team, did not suit GGYC.
You now attack it because it does suit GGYC.
And................................ you will attack it if you think it suits GGYC, perhaps because LE could be behind.
That is the "moral superiority " that you defend. Hypocrite.

#114 SW Sailor

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:46 AM



At the time... blah blah, blah....

Amusing, very amusing.

Whats actually amusing is your inability to differentiate a third team coming in from left field posing a challenge in the middle of a DOG legal battle, vs a challenger entering a MC event with 8 other challengers.

Since you continually profess to be the expert on the deed and the protocol even you should be able to figure this out, but I guess you'd rather troll instead.


You attacked Green Comm because the challenge, as a third team, did not suit GGYC.

You now defend it because it suits GGYC.

And................................ you will attack it if you think it does not suit GGYC, perhaps because EB could be behind.

That is the "moral superiority " that you defend. Hypocrits.

You are so full of shit it's not funny, and dumb as a shrub to boot.

I have neither attacked nor defended a CG challenge, aside from characterizing their stupidity for trying to challenge in a DOG match, which was as stupid as you could be given the legal circumstances at the time. Let me help you with this - if they again try and challenge with a DOG match tomorrow I'll call them equally stupid, almost as stupid as you.

Do you usually attend events you consider to be "failures" ? I guess so if you're a loser :).

EB doesn't have the balls to support an AC34 team - he's still trying to repair his pride that got totally flattened in AC33. You would be wise to take note and learn from your hero.

#115 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 01:06 PM

Think this is coming up in just under 2 hrs from now? Should be 8am Pacific.

Pierre has a stream-window already in place at Vsail.

I will stream live the press conference from the Valencia yacht club. It starts at 5pm Valencia time (Thursday, 23 June).

From what I understand the conference will be conducted in Spanish and English.



#116 SW Sailor

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 02:53 PM

Interesting bit from RG on SW;

"Green Comm Racing tried to become a challenger in the litigious 33rd America's Cup when they lodged a very late challenge in multihulls that would have required Golden Gate Yacht Club to conduct a Challenger Selection Series. The winner of that series would have gone on to be the Challenger in the 33rd America's Cup.

During that Match the signage on the Team Shosholoza's team base in Valencia was overnight changed out for that of Green Comm, and the waterfront scuttelbutt had it that Green Comm would have been the Challenger of Record for the 34th America's Cup had Alinghi been successful over then BMW Oracle Racing."

My "violent attack" on them two years ago with the comment that they were on a leash was apparently accurate, next in line behind CNEV..


#117 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:00 PM

valenciasailing Valencia Sailing Checking our Livestream from the Real Club Nautico Valencia. Green Comm Racing and RCNV will presente their AC34 challenge in one hour 1 hour ago Favorite Retweet Reply » Posted Image valenciasailing Valencia Sailing Anousheh Anari will be at the Green Comm presentation in Valencia. She was the 4th (and 1st female) space tourist. Any connection?


(should be coming right up)


#118 SW Sailor

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:06 PM

"Access denied - maximum number of viewers...

#119 USA_73

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:14 PM

Only 50 Viewers allowed? If you can get on, please transcribe to here, or a new thread. Thanks.

#120 Hippie

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:16 PM

hasn't started yet. people are just standing around talking.

Started. Only in Spanish so far. When Francesco starts we will have to translate from his broken English.

#121 Hippie

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:46 PM

Just announced Zach Reilly to the media.

#122 Hippie

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:49 PM

greencomm website is now live.

greencommracing.com

#123 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:53 PM

^ Wow, check out the sailors already

#124 Xlot

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 03:56 PM

Pres RNV stresses NO financial contribution, purely commercial firms

Devoti speaks excellent Spanish. Paolo Cian retained for match racing

This Sala speaking now is a big fish in MilanExpo, says they'll support. Wonder how that'll play with the new Mayor

Nannini speaks lousy Spanish instead, says nothing except long-term perspective

Gaebler (sp?) in too

#125 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:04 PM

VS says Vasilij Zbogar will the Green Comm helmsman in Cascais

RW saying they will spend $50M over the next two years on broadcasting

#126 Xlot

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:15 PM

Budget question: Club nothing (again), will receive exposure instead. RNV will not get involved in administration

De Leo: €40M (50% already covered)

What's with the Francis Coppola projector?

Boat will be built in VLC

No experience on multis - usual answer, Gaebler mentioned again

They paid for the 45, will be delivered in Cascais

=======

My comment: surprised Sala (MilanExpo's CEO) was there. He belongs to the previous administration, this sponsorship will raise hell! To say nothing of Spanish Team, boat built there - imagine reaction in Italy

#127 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:35 PM

Press Release
Green Comm Racing and RCNV launch the challenge of sustainability to the America's Cup
Valencia June 23, 2011

The Real Club Nautico de Valencia (RCNV) and Green Comm Racing announced the details of their Challenge for the 34th America's Cup at a press conference this afternoon in Valencia, Spain.
The Green Comm Racing team, representing Spain's RCNV, completes the field of nine teams from eight nations that will be on the starting line in 10 AC 45 catamarans at the first America's Cup World Series event in August in Cascais, Portugal, the first competition in the lead-up to the 34th America's Cup.

The team's objective is to promote and manage the "Green Revolution" by leveraging the media impact of international sport's oldest trophy. The aim is to give visibility to the challenge of sustainability on a global scale by promoting the development of new technologies and new endeavors in the field of Green Tech.

The team, led by Francesco De Leo (former Manager Director of Telecom Italia, former Director and Head of Strategy and International Operations of Wind and 1999 Global Leaders for Tomorrow at the World Economic Forum), includes Marco Nannini - CEO (former Management Consultant to The Boston Consulting Group and Roland Berger) and Luca Devoti - Sport Team Manager (Silver Olympic Finn sailing and a successful sailing entrepreneur).

The athletes who are part of the team are young and have an impressive track record in Olympic classes. The new America's Cup will be raced in faster boats which will be physically more demanding than ever: a young team will be positioned to provide a competitive advantage.

Green Comm Racing will be receiving its new AC45 multihull in July in order to ramp up
the training sessions ahead of the first AC race in Cascais (Portugal).

The RCNV will not only be the Green Comm Racing team's operational base but it will be the global hub for selecting the next generation of talent through a number of trials which will be open to the best young sailors in Spain and across the world.

To address the challenge of designing the AC72, Green Comm Racing has engaged two leading universities, University of Pisa and UCLA, both world class institutions working in the field of Computational Fluid Dynamics and Sensory Wireless Networks. As a starting point for the development of the AC72, the team will take advantage of the existing design package prepared by ACRM.

Green Comm Racing has a long term vision focused on sustainability.
Interbrand, Sim2, Prodea Systems and Expo 2015 are among partners that have joined RCNV and Green Comm. Racing for the launch of the challenge for the 34th America's Cup; more partners will be announced in the coming weeks.

Richard Worth, Chairman, America's Cup Event Authority, said: "We're very pleased to welcome the Real Club Nautico de Valencia to the 34th America's Cup, representing a nation known for its rich maritime history and its significance to the America's Cup. The Green Comm Racing, with their commitment to not just sailing excellence but also a sustainable future, will be a great complement to our strong group of competitors."

#128 GauchoGreg

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:49 PM

They might want to revise their web-page. They show the AC72 being raced in the ACWS starting in 2012.

http://www.greencomm...mericascup.html

#129 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 04:58 PM

valenciasailing Valencia Sailing Luca Devoti: We have paid our AC45 yacht and it will be shipped to Cascais. It is expected to arrive there on July 10th
valenciasailing Valencia Sailing Francesco de Leo: We right now have way beyond 50% of our budget. I'm sure we'll be in San Francisco in 2013
valenciasailing Valencia Sailing Francesco de Leo: We will take the design package offered by America's Cup Race Management



#130 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:12 PM

That was a well-organized announcement. As good as any besides perhaps Artemis.

8 people on stage, plus six 6 sailors introduced all present in matching uniforms.

AC45 already purchased and the budget announced.

Web site went live simultaneously.

Not bad!

#131 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:25 PM

Some of the sailors listed, not certain these are who were present
--

TEAM

Jonathan Lobert Eight world ranking Finn
Ed Wright Finn Gold Cup winner 2010 San Francisco
Zach Railey Silver medalist 2008 Olympics
Ivan Kljakovic Gaspic Twice European champion Finn class
Paul Hobson CEO North Sails One Design
Anthony Nossiter Twice olympiad, Volvo Ocean Race, 32nd AC
Vasilij Zbogar Twice Olympic medalist (2004/2008) Laser class
Alex Muscat Spanish Olympic Team
Jorge Zarif Brazil Junior World Champion (2009)

#132 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:38 PM

Posted Image

#133 Dixie

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:45 PM

Some of the sailors listed, not certain these are who were present
--

TEAM

Jonathan Lobert Eight world ranking Finn
Ed Wright Finn Gold Cup winner 2010 San Francisco
Zach Railey Silver medalist 2008 Olympics
Ivan Kljakovic Gaspic Twice European champion Finn class
Paul Hobson CEO North Sails One Design
Anthony Nossiter Twice olympiad, Volvo Ocean Race, 32nd AC
Vasilij Zbogar Twice Olympic medalist (2004/2008) Laser class
Alex Muscat Spanish Olympic Team
Jorge Zarif Brazil Junior World Champion (2009)


Most of you already know this, but ....Another US / SF connection, Zach is from Florida and a member of the St. Francis YC.

#134 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:51 PM


Some of the sailors listed, not certain these are who were present
--

TEAM

Jonathan Lobert Eight world ranking Finn
Ed Wright Finn Gold Cup winner 2010 San Francisco
Zach Railey Silver medalist 2008 Olympics
Ivan Kljakovic Gaspic Twice European champion Finn class
Paul Hobson CEO North Sails One Design
Anthony Nossiter Twice olympiad, Volvo Ocean Race, 32nd AC
Vasilij Zbogar Twice Olympic medalist (2004/2008) Laser class
Alex Muscat Spanish Olympic Team
Jorge Zarif Brazil Junior World Champion (2009)


Most of you already know this, but ....Another US / SF connection, Zach is from Florida and a member of the St. Francis YC.

Very cool.

I think Luca Devoti also mentioned Paolo Cian, that's some serious talent too.

#135 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 05:54 PM

Web site went live simultaneously.

Press release sent

http://sailracewin.blogspot.com/2011/06/americas-cup-green-comm-racing-and-rcnv.html

#136 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:01 PM

http://sailracewin.b...g-and-rcnv.html

..
As a starting point for the development of the AC72, the team will take advantage of the existing design package prepared by ACRM.
..
Green Comm Racing has a long term vision focused on sustainability.
Interbrand, Sim2, Prodea Systems and Expo 2015 are among partners that have joined RCNV and Green Comm. Racing for the launch of the challenge for the 34th America's Cup; more partners will be announced in the coming weeks.
..
Green Comm Racing aims to be part of the America's Cup for the next 10 years. It is a long term project with a clear objective: To build a winning team.

#137 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:40 PM

Wright to compete in America's Cup
By Stuart Alexander
Thursday, 23 June 2011

World Finn class champion Ed Wright is joining what is a second Italian America's Cup challenger but wearing Spanish colours announced in Valencia, which hosted the last two events.

Green Comm Racing, which has been organising itself since 2009, said it would have a budget of €40m, of which it already had over 50 per cent.

It will be buying a standard design package for the eventual 72-foot wing-powered catamaran from America's Cup Race Management and will be using aerodynamic research work already being done by the University of Pisa.

Sporting director Luca Devoti, a Finn class silver medallist at the Sydney Games in 2000 and chief executive of the +39 America's Cup challenge in 2007, said: "It will be really tough to catch up the big teams like the American defender, Oracle, the challenger of record, Sweden's Artemis, and Team New Zealand.

"It will be immensely difficult, but we think we can do it."

contd

#138 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 06:51 PM



Some of the sailors listed, not certain these are who were present
--

TEAM

Jonathan Lobert Eight world ranking Finn
Ed Wright Finn Gold Cup winner 2010 San Francisco
Zach Railey Silver medalist 2008 Olympics
Ivan Kljakovic Gaspic Twice European champion Finn class
Paul Hobson CEO North Sails One Design
Anthony Nossiter Twice olympiad, Volvo Ocean Race, 32nd AC
Vasilij Zbogar Twice Olympic medalist (2004/2008) Laser class
Alex Muscat Spanish Olympic Team
Jorge Zarif Brazil Junior World Champion (2009)


Most of you already know this, but ....Another US / SF connection, Zach is from Florida and a member of the St. Francis YC.

Very cool.

I think Luca Devoti also mentioned Paolo Cian, that's some serious talent too.

Mentioned at FV:

Paul Hobson (GBR), North Sails, technical development
Paolo Cian (ITA) trainer, expert in match racing
Roland Gaebler (GER) trainer, expert multihull

#139 Koukel

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 07:20 PM

Some of the sailors listed, not certain these are who were present
--

TEAM

Jonathan Lobert Eight world ranking Finn
Ed Wright Finn Gold Cup winner 2010 San Francisco
Zach Railey Silver medalist 2008 Olympics
Ivan Kljakovic Gaspic Twice European champion Finn class
Paul Hobson CEO North Sails One Design
Anthony Nossiter Twice olympiad, Volvo Ocean Race, 32nd AC
Vasilij Zbogar Twice Olympic medalist (2004/2008) Laser class
Alex Muscat Spanish Olympic Team
Jorge Zarif Brazil Junior World Champion (2009)

Looks like some of these are man size atheletes, Finn and all. Are AC45 / 72 sailors falling into a certain body type I wonder.

Koukel

#140 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 07:23 PM

Looks like some of these are man size atheletes, Finn and all. Are AC45 / 72 sailors falling into a certain body type I wonder.

Koukel

Yes, wondered that too. Luca Devoti was like a giant among mere men on that stage, he must be very powerful. I suspect he is also the reason so much of the world's top Finn talent is listed.

#141 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 07:52 PM

Posted at AC.com now and GR is included in the Teams list with the Spanish flag.

#142 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:03 PM

Looks like some of these are man size atheletes, Finn and all. Are AC45 / 72 sailors falling into a certain body type I wonder.

Koukel

Whoa, who is the guy on the left? From at VS

Posted Image

#143 Koukel

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 08:12 PM

Whoa, who is the guy on the left? From at VS

Overal crew weight limit. Might lead to little people navigating and on the helm maybe, to let you get more of the beef on the rail? Probably more so on the 72s where everyone doesn't have to do everything.

Koukel

#144 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:34 PM

Press Release
Green Comm Racing and RCNV launch the challenge of sustainability to the America's Cup
Valencia June 23, 2011

.. Green Comm Racing has a long term vision focused on sustainability.
Interbrand, Sim2, Prodea Systems and Expo 2015 are among partners that have joined RCNV and Green Comm. Racing for the launch of the challenge for the 34th America's Cup; more partners will be announced in the coming weeks.
..

re Prodea: The lady who was present is, from Wiki

Anousheh Ansari (Persian: انوشه انصاری; née Raissyan[1]; born September 12, 1966 in Mashhad, Iran) is an engineer and the Iranian-American co-founder and chairman of Prodea Systems. Her previous business accomplishments include serving as co-founder and CEO of Telecom Technologies, Inc. (TTI). The Ansari family is also the title sponsor of the Ansari X Prize. On September 18, 2006, a few days after her 40th birthday, she became the first Iranian in space.[2] Ansari was the fourth overall self-funded space tourist, and the first self-funded woman to fly to the International Space Station.

(me: iirc she paid $20M for the flight to the ISS)

#145 PeterHuston

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:42 PM


Press Release
Green Comm Racing and RCNV launch the challenge of sustainability to the America's Cup
Valencia June 23, 2011

.. Green Comm Racing has a long term vision focused on sustainability.
Interbrand, Sim2, Prodea Systems and Expo 2015 are among partners that have joined RCNV and Green Comm. Racing for the launch of the challenge for the 34th America's Cup; more partners will be announced in the coming weeks.
..

re Prodea: The lady who was present is, from Wiki

Anousheh Ansari (Persian: انوشه انصاری; née Raissyan[1]; born September 12, 1966 in Mashhad, Iran) is an engineer and the Iranian-American co-founder and chairman of Prodea Systems. Her previous business accomplishments include serving as co-founder and CEO of Telecom Technologies, Inc. (TTI). The Ansari family is also the title sponsor of the Ansari X Prize. On September 18, 2006, a few days after her 40th birthday, she became the first Iranian in space.[2] Ansari was the fourth overall self-funded space tourist, and the first self-funded woman to fly to the International Space Station.


Whether or not any of this is about real cash remains to be seen, but I have to give these guys full props for sticking it out and pulling all this together. They could be the 3rd best funded Challenger already.

One thing is for sure, these guys will probably be very quotable - Finn sailors tend to be like that.

#146 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 09:57 PM

One thing is for sure, these guys will probably be very quotable - Finn sailors tend to be like that.

That would be great.

G-tran of commentary by a local sailing writer:

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Felblogdejaumesoler.blogspot.com%2F2011%2F06%2Fel-desafio-de-la-globalizacion.html




#147 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:06 PM

Some photos:

http://translate.goo...g_1es&prmd=ivns


VS - Thank you for the stream, that was cool. Should be some AC action headed your way!

#148 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:07 PM

Speaking of..


Richard Worth, CEO of America’s Cup Event Authority, talks to VSail.info
Posted on 23 June 2011 by Valencia Sailing



#149 Xlot

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 10:45 PM

Speaking of..


Richard Worth, CEO of America’s Cup Event Authority, talks to VSail.info
Posted on 23 June 2011 by Valencia Sailing


The entire 34th America’s Cup cycle, with 16 World Series event, the LV Cup and the AC match will have a total cost of 350 million US dollars. We need to find a way to finance that. Part of it comes from venues, part of it from sponsorship, part of it, possibly ..


First time I see the figure quoted

#150 Stingray

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 11:02 PM


Speaking of..


Richard Worth, CEO of America's Cup Event Authority, talks to VSail.info
Posted on 23 June 2011 by Valencia Sailing


The entire 34th America's Cup cycle, with 16 World Series event, the LV Cup and the AC match will have a total cost of 350 million US dollars. We need to find a way to finance that. Part of it comes from venues, part of it from sponsorship, part of it, possibly ..


First time I see the figure quoted

Me too.

He's remarkably frank answering the questions.

Some cities might like to have an event for free but we have to find 350 million dollars to pay for everything.



#151 GauchoGreg

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 11:23 PM

Speaking of..


Richard Worth, CEO of America's Cup Event Authority, talks to VSail.info
Posted on 23 June 2011 by Valencia Sailing




Fantastic interview and story.

Thanks VS!

#152 Dixie

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 11:32 PM

Very VERY good job in that interview and a surprising willingness from RW to give the answers.
Will we in the US be able to watch the ACWS live or sort of live? I am not sure I could take (sorry OR folks) one hour of abbreviated shots, short cuts, unusual fades and strange music. It would be nice to see a few long shots, even if it's just 10-15 seconds, of the boats just sailing.
Oops...tangent. Sorry.

#153 Dixie

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Posted 23 June 2011 - 11:32 PM

Very VERY good job in that interview and a surprising willingness from RW to give the answers.
Will we in the US be able to watch the ACWS live or sort of live? I am not sure I could take (sorry OR folks) one hour of abbreviated shots, short cuts, unusual fades and strange music. It would be nice to see a few long shots, even if it's just 10-15 seconds, of the boats just sailing.
Oops...tangent. Sorry.

#154 PeterHuston

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 12:21 AM

VSail.info: What has the feedback from the cities been so far?
Richard Worth: The bid is still running and will end in one week, on June 30th. So, one week from now we will have all the offers. Some of them will be good, others will be bad. If it's a good bid we will then go to that city, whether it's in Spain, France, Italy or Australia. Let me give you an example. We have one event planned for January 2012. If Dubai offers 5 million euros and Sydney doesn't offer anything it's obvious we'll go in Dubai.

PH - Ok...he basically says to the Aussies - give me 5 million euro's or forget it.


VSail.info: Have you put a value to the economic impact of such an event?
Richard Worth: Yes, we have. One World Series event generates approximately an impact of 30 million euros from hotels, restaurants, flights and direct or indirect expenses. You could argue in Sydney it could be 40 million and in Dubai 20 million because every city is different but on average it's roughly 30 million euros.

PH - How on earth do the cost of flights add into a 30 million euro economic benefit for a host city? Unless the city/country owns the airline, they don't add squat. And "indirect expenses", what is that, and how does it benefit a host city?


VSail.info: What is the cost to a city to host a World Series event?
Richard Worth: From each city we ask for a hosting fee of 5 million euros. Some cities might offer less but that's why we put it to a bid, to get the best value. Let's be clear. The entire 34th America's Cup cycle, with 16 World Series events, the LV Cup and the AC match will have a total cost of 350 million US dollars. We need to find a way to finance that. Part of it comes from venues, part of it from sponsorship, part of it, possibly, from TV and broadcast fees and finally, from smaller things like licensing, clothing, etc. Some cities might like to have an event for free but we have to find 350 million dollars to pay for everything.

PH - In a recent interview somewhere else, Worth says the TV production budget will be 50 million euro's. Now, in this interview, he seems to be saying that they could POSSIBLY get part of some income from TV and Broadcast fees. Huh? He's got a 50 million TV production budget and he doesn't know that he's going to get at least 50 million euro's in return on that expense?

VSail.info: Has any challenger asked Larry Ellison to fund them?
Richard Worth: No. I think he made it clear and it is already costing him 350 million dollars. He's a businessman, he wants a return on his money. He has offered help in some ways but he's not paying their bills.

PH - So there you have the answer to all of those who have been saying "Larry is rich, he doesn't care if this thing loses $300-400 million". And isn't it interesting that Worth says this is costing Larry 350 million dollars, and that Worth needs to raise 350 million dollars. So which is it, is it really costing Larry 350 million, or is Worth going to raise that money? And what happens if Worth fails? To that end, what I'm thinking about is the black eye this would give the sport - what will the repercussions be in the sponsor and media marketplace for years to come if Worth fails? Those industries would rightly be able to say "you had one of the richest guys in the planet backrolling the entire thing, in very fast new boats, with the worlds best sailors, fancy tv technology and you still could not make this work economically on tv. So why should we care about what you say next?

So, the real question is just this: what is Larry's threshold for waiting to see if there will be a reasonable economic return - if just back to even?

In my opinion, Worth's statements are pithy and inconsistent. He has yet to give clear and concise believable answers.

#155 maxmini

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 12:30 AM

VSail.info: What has the feedback from the cities been so far?
Richard Worth: The bid is still running and will end in one week, on June 30th. So, one week from now we will have all the offers. Some of them will be good, others will be bad. If it's a good bid we will then go to that city, whether it's in Spain, France, Italy or Australia. Let me give you an example. We have one event planned for January 2012. If Dubai offers 5 million euros and Sydney doesn't offer anything it's obvious we'll go in Dubai.

PH - Ok...he basically says to the Aussies - give me 5 million euro's or forget it.


VSail.info: Have you put a value to the economic impact of such an event?
Richard Worth: Yes, we have. One World Series event generates approximately an impact of 30 million euros from hotels, restaurants, flights and direct or indirect expenses. You could argue in Sydney it could be 40 million and in Dubai 20 million because every city is different but on average it's roughly 30 million euros.

PH - How on earth do the cost of flights add into a 30 million euro economic benefit for a host city? Unless the city/country owns the airline, they don't add squat. And "indirect expenses", what is that, and how does it benefit a host city?


VSail.info: What is the cost to a city to host a World Series event?
Richard Worth: From each city we ask for a hosting fee of 5 million euros. Some cities might offer less but that's why we put it to a bid, to get the best value. Let's be clear. The entire 34th America's Cup cycle, with 16 World Series events, the LV Cup and the AC match will have a total cost of 350 million US dollars. We need to find a way to finance that. Part of it comes from venues, part of it from sponsorship, part of it, possibly, from TV and broadcast fees and finally, from smaller things like licensing, clothing, etc. Some cities might like to have an event for free but we have to find 350 million dollars to pay for everything.

PH - In a recent interview somewhere else, Worth says the TV production budget will be 50 million euro's. Now, in this interview, he seems to be saying that they could POSSIBLY get part of some income from TV and Broadcast fees. Huh? He's got a 50 million TV production budget and he doesn't know that he's going to get at least 50 million euro's in return on that expense?

VSail.info: Has any challenger asked Larry Ellison to fund them?
Richard Worth: No. I think he made it clear and it is already costing him 350 million dollars. He's a businessman, he wants a return on his money. He has offered help in some ways but he's not paying their bills.

PH - So there you have the answer to all of those who have been saying "Larry is rich, he doesn't care if this thing loses $300-400 million". And isn't it interesting that Worth says this is costing Larry 350 million dollars, and that Worth needs to raise 350 million dollars. So which is it, is it really costing Larry 350 million, or is Worth going to raise that money? And what happens if Worth fails? To that end, what I'm thinking about is the black eye this would give the sport - what will the repercussions be in the sponsor and media marketplace for years to come if Worth fails? Those industries would rightly be able to say "you had one of the richest guys in the planet backrolling the entire thing, in very fast new boats, with the worlds best sailors, fancy tv technology and you still could not make this work economically on tv. So why should we care about what you say next?

So, the real question is just this: what is Larry's threshold for waiting to see if there will be a reasonable economic return - if just back to even?

In my opinion, Worth's statements are pithy and inconsistent. He has yet to give clear and concise believable answers.



Nice translation froms RW's " english " to reality :)

#156 Stingray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 12:37 AM

PH, I disagree with you on some of the above. His given task is to break even or better. Better means teams share in it, so why not try do it?

Cities are not going to pay the 5m unless they are willing to and so whatever agreements are reached will be by mutual consent. I doubt money is the only factor anyway, IM talks in the recent Yachting World podcast about needing to fit a logical travel pattern too, just like RW said.

I am not seeing him as the root cause of the rampant failure that apparently infected the RMR effort. Other efforts came thru successfully.

Are you ginning to be in RWs shoes? Tough gig but he actually sounds confident, honest too.

#157 EaglesPDX

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:01 AM


Speaking of..


Richard Worth, CEO of America's Cup Event Authority, talks to VSail.info
Posted on 23 June 2011 by Valencia Sailing


Fantastic interview and story.


Valencia asks tough questions vs. a lot of softball questions from other reporters.

The whole "America's Cup" is a "business" is such wishful thinking. It never has and never will be business other than for the professional crews and suppliers of goods and services to the owners. Idea that America's Cup is ever going to pay its own way is false. Assuming America's Cup puts on an exciting race, the final races might get 3-5M viewers for whatever that is worth via broadcast rights and that might help defray the costs but thats about it.

America's Cup is a single challenge event held every three or four years. It will never be an F1 or NASCAR circuit or any kind of soccer or baseball league.

I feel sorry for Worth having to try and sell that whole false premise..

We have seen this trend since about 1991 and the first IACC boats having "championships" outside of the America's Cup in hopes of creating self funding races or series of races. Ironically, the America's Cup kept losing public interest no matter what various schemes were tried.

I think he [Ellison] made it clear and it is already costing him 350 million dollars. He's a businessman, he wants a return on his money


$200M for the Oracle campaign, another $150M for the AC45's and San Francisco venue, sounds about right. Return on investment? None. Anymore than there was a return on investment from 2010 America's Cup where Ellison dropped at least $200M. Bertarelli's crazy high jack scheme had the same idea, that Bertarelli was somehow going to make money out of the America's Cup by putting it into a "bottle" and selling as another boring yearly regatta circuit where he made money off the hot dog concession.

Current America's Cup should just be the AC72's in San Francisco. If Ellison felt that AC race organizers and the challengers all needed some work on scale models first, his spending for the AC45's was fine. As we see, some demo races in San Francisco was all that was needed for practice and for pre-race publicity. The AC72 event should be fabulous and create enough interest to get AC some broadcast rights cash to offset the next event but that's always going to be it. America's Cup is going to be what it's always been, a billionaires no limits yacht race with the fastest race boats and best sailors money can buy, held every few years when someone challenges the current holder.

#158 PeterHuston

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:06 AM

PH, I disagree with you on some of the above. His given task is to break even or better. Better means teams share in it, so why not try do it?

Cities are not going to pay the 5m unless they are willing to and so whatever agreements are reached will be by mutual consent. I doubt money is the only factor anyway, IM talks in the recent Yachting World podcast about needing to fit a logical travel pattern too, just like RW said.

I am not seeing him as the root cause of the rampant failure that apparently infected the RMR effort. Other efforts came thru successfully.

Are you ginning to be in RWs shoes? Tough gig but he actually sounds confident, honest too.


Nope, don't want Worth's gig, or any gig with ACEA. I've got plenty on plate. I like to enjoy sailing these days, not work at it.

Sure if some City wants to toss a bunch of money at an event they are welcome to. But Worth basically said in print to the Aussies - go fuck yourself if you think I'm going to do anything to help you. I need the money more than I need your team.

And I'm all for trying to do better than break even - I just don't see with Worth leading the way this will happen. It is incomprehensible to me that he can say one day that there is a $50 million/euro TV production budget, and then say the next he doesn't know if there will be money coming in from broadcast fees for that. I know first hand what his guy Kim Barhart has said to broadcasters in three different countries, and it is no wonder there won't be broadcast fees coming in.

As for RMR - it was no failure - it was a prudent decision to not go forward because there were, and remain, too many unknowns, particularly with the venues, and especially with the tv broadcast. At the time RMR was working hard, all winter, and telling ACRM/ACEA that things had to change in terms of when the 72's were going to be launched ect, ACRM/ACEA was still sticking to the old protocol rules about launch/race dates for the 72, and there was zero information about venues beyond the four we knew about. It wasn't about the inability to get sponsors, it was about the inability to tell them anything specific. Obviously, other teams were willing to take the risk of that uncertainty, and I hope it all works out for them. But given the way the principles of RMR think about things, they did not want to incur the reputational risk of trying to sell a "vaporevent". I completely agreed with them - and besides, if ACEA starts announcing venues and TV broadcasters, maybe RMR will jump in at the last minute with a plan boat. Others who are waffling could do the same.

I learned a valuable lesson about the language of the America's Cup a long time ago. I was in a meeting one day with a wise old Cup veteran. He said to me "do you know what the words "Trust Me" mean in America's Cupspeak?" I said "uh.....no...but this ought to be good".

He said "Trust Me = FUCK YOU!!!!"...and he laughed out loud as he walked out of the room.

See the connection...?

#159 Stingray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:25 AM

Well I sure as shit don't have the AC experience that you do, but just looking at that green lighted budget I would have on balance a lot of faith versus uncertainty that it will come through, big time.

Times do change and this AC34 is shaping up to be quite extraordinary.

#160 PeterHuston

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:45 AM

Well I sure as shit don't have the AC experience that you do, but just looking at that green lighted budget I would have on balance a lot of faith versus uncertainty that it will come through, big time.

Times do change and this AC34 is shaping up to be quite extraordinary.


Nothing I'd love to see more than this all work - I just wish ACEA would temper what they say, and deal with reality a bit more

#161 EaglesPDX

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:56 AM

PH - Ok...he basically says to the Aussies - give me 5 million euro's or forget it.


He says he'll take the best offers. Why any city would offer them money is beyond me. For cities with good venues, they have the saleable product. For cities with bad venues who would pay, why would you go there?

I think they'll find "mitigating circumstance" to do the New York, Boston, Around Isle of Wight week before Cowes would be fun.


PH - How on earth do the cost of flights add into a 30 million euro economic benefit for a host city? Unless the city/country owns the airline, they don't add squat. And "indirect expenses", what is that, and how does it benefit a host city?


Most city airports charge taxes so the flights do produce revenue. But saying it's worth $30M in SF and $30M in Podunk makes no sense. The whole $30M makes no sense really. It's just a WAG (wild ass guess) tossed out, possibly with accompanying Power Point fiction as support


PH - In a recent interview somewhere else, Worth says the TV production budget will be 50 million euro's. Now, in this interview, he seems to be saying that they could POSSIBLY get part of some income from TV and Broadcast fees. Huh? He's got a 50 million TV production budget and he doesn't know that he's going to get at least 50 million euro's in return on that expense?


That is a gamble on their part. I think they could easily recoup $150M with web broadcast subscriptions of killer video content with 3M paying $50 for access, 6M paying $25 etc. Worst case they get a 1M and recoup all their costs of $50M.

PH - So there you have the answer to all of those who have been saying "Larry is rich, he doesn't care if this thing loses $300-400 million".


Eyup. Ellision is crazy rich and willing to spend AT LEAST $350M for his America's Cup. Means he'll spend $500M if he needs to if they SF city supporters can't raise the $270M(?) from private donors.

In my opinion, Worth's statements are pithy and inconsistent. He has yet to give clear and concise believable answers.


He's selling what they are asking him to sell. They have a great race for two months in San Francisco with subscription web casts generating $50-$150M and they have city and private supporters kicking in some cash. All the ancillary AC45 races are going to be a pure cost center. I expect it to be reduced to a couple races in San Francisco which is all they really need...and save the $300M to run the AC45 races.

#162 EaglesPDX

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 03:05 AM

I learned a valuable lesson about the language of the America's Cup a long time ago. I was in a meeting one day with a wise old Cup veteran. He said to me "do you know what the words "Trust Me" mean in America's Cupspeak?" I said "uh.....no...but this ought to be good". He said "Trust Me = FUCK YOU!!!!"...and he laughed out loud as he walked out of the room.


No. You learned that old jokes, recycled as faux insider AC talk, don''t work. The original joke is "How do you say fuck you in New York. Punchline is "trust me". If your apocryphal "wise oid Cup veteran" was trying to make it look like inside baseball insight, he should have picked something less used, maybe "Why do America's Cup challengers cross the road", this makes him look like his Aricept hasn't helped.

#163 KiwiJoker

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:02 AM


Well I sure as shit don't have the AC experience that you do, but just looking at that green lighted budget I would have on balance a lot of faith versus uncertainty that it will come through, big time.

Times do change and this AC34 is shaping up to be quite extraordinary.


Nothing I'd love to see more than this all work - I just wish ACEA would temper what they say, and deal with reality a bit more


That goes for me too. What's more I think they'll make it work. But I share your concerns about ACEA, although perhaps not to the same degree.

It's probably not unreasonable to say that the new concept AC brought to us by LE, RC, TE, IM, Stan Honey et al, will be successful despite Worth and Co rather than because of them.

#164 Stingray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:28 AM


Nothing I'd love to see more than this all work - I just wish ACEA would temper what they say, and deal with reality a bit more

That goes for me too. What's more I think they'll make it work. But I share your concerns about ACEA, although perhaps not to the same degree.

It's probably not unreasonable to say that the new concept AC brought to us by LE, RC, TE, IM, Stan Honey et al, will be successful despite Worth and Co rather than because of them.

Am still not seeing any facts at all to support the premise for why Worth is getting toasted by mostly just PH here, for whatever failures. RW comes off as plenty confident, perfectly honest, and with a greatly successful track record to back it all up.

He's a solid guy, let's give him a chance. He is honest in the interview about venues; he probably is in characterizing the kinds of companies about to step into it too. Do I care that he can't tell us that business yet? Nope, I just take his word that it is coming because he has no reason at all to simply conjure it all up.

If he needs a proven product to sell before agreeing the deals, then to me that outweighs the excuses of the 10+nth challengers' individual worries. They aren't needed any more anyway, this train has already left the station.

#165 PeterHuston

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:23 AM



Nothing I'd love to see more than this all work - I just wish ACEA would temper what they say, and deal with reality a bit more

That goes for me too. What's more I think they'll make it work. But I share your concerns about ACEA, although perhaps not to the same degree.

It's probably not unreasonable to say that the new concept AC brought to us by LE, RC, TE, IM, Stan Honey et al, will be successful despite Worth and Co rather than because of them.

Am still not seeing any facts at all to support the premise for why Worth is getting toasted by mostly just PH here, for whatever failures. RW comes off as plenty confident, perfectly honest, and with a greatly successful track record to back it all up.

He's a solid guy, let's give him a chance. He is honest in the interview about venues; he probably is in characterizing the kinds of companies about to step into it too. Do I care that he can't tell us that business yet? Nope, I just take his word that it is coming because he has no reason at all to simply conjure it all up.

If he needs a proven product to sell before agreeing the deals, then to me that outweighs the excuses of the 10+nth challengers' individual worries. They aren't needed any more anyway, this train has already left the station.


Most people aren't going to say anything negative because they either just don't know, or they want to suck up to Russell or Larry or Ehman or whoever for whatever - me, I don't give a fuck. I'm not looking for a job or any special favors. I just want to see this done right. I haven't seen Worth and Company deliver anything of value yet - they set very high goals, and they failed. They can't even get containers shipped into Portugal. And it is not paperwork that is the holdup. Ironically, the fact that GGYC set up and is abiding by the separation of powers is actually a bit of a problem. ACEA has a bit too much independence.

Are they going to get some tv distribution? Of course. Will they get venues? Certainly. Will they get sponsors. Naturally. At some point the market seeks it's own level. But look at the facts - they tried - against alot of very experienced advice - to get 5 million euro for venues. They announced 5 venues. They failed. Now they have bids hoping to get whatever they can get. Brilliant. Worth can try to spin it any way he wants, but do you not understand the sentiment that exists in certain desirable markets like Newport now about this Cup cycle? A person I know quite well who has more than a bit of influence in Newport said the reception will be a bit different next time ACEA comes calling - they best not ask for $5 million.

I spent more than a bit of time in the sponsorship world, and there are plenty of people on the edges of this event that don't want their names revealed, who have tried to help, and were told they weren't wanted. Funny thing, when Worth and company want to go talk to certain very big global companies, they are going to have to go through that agency, because that agency represents more than a couple of very big global companies that Worth et al have targeted. Those negotiations will be interesting. Worth probably doesn't even know that.

And for everyone who says it doesn't matter who shows up in '13 in SFO...you have to be kidding. Right now we have three teams that can clearly get to the starting line, and perform well. We presume China and Greencom can get to the starting line. The rest - we just don't know. Peyron, if he puts his mind to it will be tough. People say it will be fine if there are 6 challengers. Remember what it was like watching races in ACC boats with the backmarkers against one of the top teams? This time, it won't even be remotely close. It will be a slaughter, and maybe worse. Destruction can be fun to watch, if you are into that sort of thing.

The simple fact is that ACRM had no choice but to adjust to the Protocol so as to prop up the entries for the ACWS. That bought some time for some teams that are willing to take the risk to get to the starting line in a 72. There's alot of people who beat the drum very loudly for a very long time to make that happen, and it wasn't being led by Worth.

But unless you have been in the sponsorship business, you just don't have any idea how small that community is, and how hard it is to get the money to get to the starting line. It is fine to sit there and say "hey, be patient, they are going to take really cool video, and then run around the sponsorship world selling the story this fall". Well guess what, budgets are made a long time in advance, and for ACEA, that is fine. They have the financial stamina to wait it all out because of Larry. But for the teams with their necks on the line, they can't wait. They need the commitments NOW. Every team looking for money needs those commitments NOW. It is a rare company that will just say "oh, we just met and you want $15 million from us over 2 years?....Sure, be glad to be involved. Where do I send the check?"

Do you have any idea how long the planning and approval cycle is for marketing budgets? This isn't just about the money, it is about the entire image of a company. Do they even want to be associated with sailing in the first place, then with the Cup and all that means? Then does it fit their current marketing agenda?

I'm not being harsh on Worth of the sake of anything other than the Teams who are taking the risk that he is actually going to perform for THEM. The teams don't need or care about ACEA's event sponsors. They care about getting THEIR sponsors. ACEA's timetable is not the current teams timetable. The relaxed confidence you talk about from Worth is that of an arrogant employee who is comfortable in his contract of his wealthy employer. All he is talking about is HIS time table. And have you ever met a sponsorship salesman who wasn't confident? If Worth really cared about the teams, he would have done things completely differently, but he didn't. All he cared about what HIS money. The teams, not the teams that aren't there, but the teams who are in the ACWS now, need those venues and tv distribution NOW. Not at the end of the fall six months from now.

So, like Kiwi Joker said elsewhere, the AC 34 will go on, and it will probably be ok, especially if one doesn't look behind the curtain, not because of Worth and his many hundreds of minions, but inspite of them.

I just hope for the sake of the teams in the ACWS and trying like hell to make it to the starting line for the LV Cup that they get coordinated and start beating the crap out of Worth to deliver for THEM. Without them, there really isn't much of a show, and now that they are in, this is the time for them to be unified. Worth needs them more than they need him, and the penalty for dropping out if they don't make it is alot worse for ACEA than it will be for each individual team.

#166 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:34 AM


Well I sure as shit don't have the AC experience that you do, but just looking at that green lighted budget I would have on balance a lot of faith versus uncertainty that it will come through, big time.

Times do change and this AC34 is shaping up to be quite extraordinary.


Nothing I'd love to see more than this all work - I just wish ACEA would temper what they say, and deal with reality a bit more


The problem is that they are listening to TV people, who are the biggest liars in the world. What other business lets you claim that anyone who might possibly walk by your shop is a paying customer. I love that whole thing about "2 Billion people for AC33"

Fucking TV people are what's holding so much back.

#167 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:39 AM

That is a gamble on their part. I think they could easily recoup $150M with web broadcast subscriptions of killer video content with 3M paying $50 for access, 6M paying $25 etc. Worst case they get a 1M and recoup all their costs of $50M.


Your guesses are an order of magnitude off, PDX. In order to sell that kind of subscription number, they'd need to spend the same again to market it, and you run out of potential viewers pretty quickly.

If ACEA continues to push for a break-even or better scenario, this whole thing will die on the vine, because there will be no TV and the production will fall apart because the budgets won't allow them to do what they want.

They will back down from break-even, because they must. Stan is there to tell them the truth, and as someone who could give a fuck about his paycheck, I'm confident he'll do that. I'm not nearly as confident that Gary whatever the TV producer is the right man for the job, though.

#168 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 05:45 AM

Just fired off an email to my old friend Luca, who told me in Valencia last year that "he'd never, ever get back into the Cup, because it would kill him."

I wrote to him, "Guess you really do have a death wish!"

#169 dogwatch

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 06:23 AM

World Finn class champion Ed Wright is joining what is a second Italian America's Cup challenger but wearing Spanish colours announced in Valencia, which hosted the last two events.


He might as well as he won't be sailing in the Olympics. Glad he's found an alternative gig.

#170 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 06:26 AM

Just got Skyped by Devoti who reads these forums religiously. WE'll be doing a video interview with him Saturday, so ask your questions of Green Comm here.

#171 Lazy Guy

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 06:38 AM

GreenComm would be sailing under the Valencia burgee.


How prescient

#172 dogwatch

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 06:40 AM

VSail.info: What has the feedback from the cities been so far?
Richard Worth: The bid is still running and will end in one week, on June 30th. So, one week from now we will have all the offers. Some of them will be good, others will be bad. If it's a good bid we will then go to that city, whether it's in Spain, France, Italy or Australia. Let me give you an example. We have one event planned for January 2012. If Dubai offers 5 million euros and Sydney doesn't offer anything it's obvious we'll go in Dubai.

PH - Ok...he basically says to the Aussies - give me 5 million euro's or forget it.


IIRC Stuart Alexander suggested Plymouth paid around 250,000 euros. There is no way on earth in the current climate it paid 5 million as British local governments are cutting budgets everywhere right now, same as every other city in the world.

I believe Silverstone is paying 11M euro to stage an F1 event. Does anyone seriously believe an ACWS event is worth anything approaching half the value of an F1 event?

#173 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 06:53 AM

Nope, but you have to understand event accounting to figure out the 5M figure. Rental of city property, reimbursement of city services (police, etc.), waterfront useage and 'event park' logistics help...they never said it was cash, and in-kind figures for these things quickly add up.

#174 acintel

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 07:13 AM

Am still not seeing any facts at all to support the premise for why Worth is getting toasted by mostly just PH here, for whatever failures. RW comes off as plenty confident, perfectly honest, and with a greatly successful track record to back it all up...



Richard Worth has succeeded the almost impossible! Making me agree with Peter Huston.

Worth is a failure in the job and almost each answer of the interview confirms this.

So Stingray, there are plenty more people out here who see ACEA as hopeless. Not voicing it, because so obvious.

#175 valenciasailing

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 08:14 AM

Regarding TV production costs, I didn't ask the question, but Worth later mentioned it during his speech. According to him, ACEA will spend a total of 50 million US dollars on TV production during the 34th America's Cup.

#176 ~HHN92~

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 11:41 AM

Just got Skyped by Devoti who reads these forums religiously. WE'll be doing a video interview with him Saturday, so ask your questions of Green Comm here.


What was the deal trying to wedge GC into the AC33 fiasco? Was EB influencing/supporting this effort?

And what was the conversations with LE/BOR during that time?

#177 Stingray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:40 PM

Just got Skyped by Devoti who reads these forums religiously. WE'll be doing a video interview with him Saturday, so ask your questions of Green Comm here.

Someone above pointed out the size of some of those Finn sailors, and wondered about crew weight limits. That could be one to ask him about?

I hope he speaks English (assume he does) since he certainly can talk a lot - even in Spanish. Seems like a great guy to interview.

#178 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:54 PM

He speaks 5 languages and is frankly a genius. Crazy too, but so are all of us that work in sailing.

#179 dogwatch

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:55 PM

AC45 class rules version 8.4

B.3. CREW
B.3.1. The crew shall consist of 5 persons.
B.3.2. The total weight of crew dressed in underwear shall not exceed 437.5 kg. Crewmembers
shall be weighed prior to competing in a race. The Measurement Committee shall use that
recorded weight at any post-race verification of compliance. In the event that a crewmember
is re-weighed at any time, a new weight will be recorded and shall be used for any
subsequent post-race verification.

That's 87.5kg a head. Optimum Finn weight is I believe thought to be more like 95kg which is a significant delta.

#180 dogwatch

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 01:57 PM

but so are all of us that work in sailing.


You work in sailing? Could have sworn you described yourself as "International Media".

#181 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:07 PM


but so are all of us that work in sailing.


You work in sailing? Could have sworn you described yourself as "International Media".

Cute. Guess there is no media work in sailing...

BTW, watch my Extreme 40 coverage live all next week. :blink:

#182 Stingray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 02:10 PM

That's 87.5kg a head. Optimum Finn weight is I believe thought to be more like 95kg which is a significant delta.

Thanks for the research.

Telegraph, about Ed Wright
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/sailing/8596713/Ed-Wright-joins-Americas-Cup.html

#183 Stingray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 04:00 PM

Telegraph, about Ed Wright
http://www.telegraph...ericas-Cup.html

Interesting here, we've seen July 10 elsewhere. Could it really be today? Would make all those sailors' trip to Valencia all the more worth while.

Green Comm Racing take delivery of their 45-foot fixed wing catamaran on Friday and under the watchful eye of sporting director Luca Devoti, a Finn class silver medallist at the 2000 Sydney Olympics will train for the first World Series regatta in Cascais, Portugal in August.



#184 Dixie

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 06:24 PM

I'm guessing next Friday SR. As they all said on the 15th of June that they were taking delivery in 3 weeks. Rather doubt that one container got there any faster than the others (but as we know, everything can suddenly change!).

#185 Monster Mash

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 07:13 PM

Where are they taking delivery?

#186 Stingray

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 07:21 PM

There's an outside chance they had it built and then shipped along with the ACRM gear from NZ direct to Lisbon. The reporter spoke to Ed W so she could have Friday right.

Marco N the CEO sailor guy tweeted last week he was spending the next four days in Portugal, meaning last weekend, and put a wink on it. edit: the tweet was June 9, maybe it's unrelated

#187 pjfranks

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 08:48 PM

VSail.info: What has the feedback from the cities been so far?
Richard Worth: The bid is still running and will end in one week, on June 30th. So, one week from now we will have all the offers. Some of them will be good, others will be bad. If it's a good bid we will then go to that city, whether it's in Spain, France, Italy or Australia. Let me give you an example. We have one event planned for January 2012. If Dubai offers 5 million euros and Sydney doesn't offer anything it's obvious we'll go in Dubai.

PH - Ok...he basically says to the Aussies - give me 5 million euro's or forget it.


VSail.info: Have you put a value to the economic impact of such an event?
Richard Worth: Yes, we have. One World Series event generates approximately an impact of 30 million euros from hotels, restaurants, flights and direct or indirect expenses. You could argue in Sydney it could be 40 million and in Dubai 20 million because every city is different but on average it's roughly 30 million euros.

PH - How on earth do the cost of flights add into a 30 million euro economic benefit for a host city? Unless the city/country owns the airline, they don't add squat. And "indirect expenses", what is that, and how does it benefit a host city?


VSail.info: What is the cost to a city to host a World Series event?
Richard Worth: From each city we ask for a hosting fee of 5 million euros. Some cities might offer less but that's why we put it to a bid, to get the best value. Let's be clear. The entire 34th America's Cup cycle, with 16 World Series events, the LV Cup and the AC match will have a total cost of 350 million US dollars. We need to find a way to finance that. Part of it comes from venues, part of it from sponsorship, part of it, possibly, from TV and broadcast fees and finally, from smaller things like licensing, clothing, etc. Some cities might like to have an event for free but we have to find 350 million dollars to pay for everything.

PH - In a recent interview somewhere else, Worth says the TV production budget will be 50 million euro's. Now, in this interview, he seems to be saying that they could POSSIBLY get part of some income from TV and Broadcast fees. Huh? He's got a 50 million TV production budget and he doesn't know that he's going to get at least 50 million euro's in return on that expense?

VSail.info: Has any challenger asked Larry Ellison to fund them?
Richard Worth: No. I think he made it clear and it is already costing him 350 million dollars. He's a businessman, he wants a return on his money. He has offered help in some ways but he's not paying their bills.

PH - So there you have the answer to all of those who have been saying "Larry is rich, he doesn't care if this thing loses $300-400 million". And isn't it interesting that Worth says this is costing Larry 350 million dollars, and that Worth needs to raise 350 million dollars. So which is it, is it really costing Larry 350 million, or is Worth going to raise that money? And what happens if Worth fails? To that end, what I'm thinking about is the black eye this would give the sport - what will the repercussions be in the sponsor and media marketplace for years to come if Worth fails? Those industries would rightly be able to say "you had one of the richest guys in the planet backrolling the entire thing, in very fast new boats, with the worlds best sailors, fancy tv technology and you still could not make this work economically on tv. So why should we care about what you say next?

So, the real question is just this: what is Larry's threshold for waiting to see if there will be a reasonable economic return - if just back to even?

In my opinion, Worth's statements are pithy and inconsistent. He has yet to give clear and concise believable answers.

RW is an expert in sports marketing and will exploit all the profit centers he can find in the new AC format.

#188 acintel

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Posted 24 June 2011 - 09:36 PM

RW is an expert in sports marketing and will exploit all the profit centers he can find in the new AC format.


Worth is probably the only expert in sports marketing that is paid more than he generates. Not worth it.

#189 Stingray

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:32 PM

Where are they taking delivery?

From the gtran of a Spanish article here,

"As an appetizer, in the first week of July is expected to team Real Club Nautico de Valencia Valencia headquarters receives AC45 ship to train before the first official test in the waters of Portugal."

#190 Stingray

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:38 PM

This one:

"As suggested by the rules of the Cup, the boat which will compete in San Francisco in 2013 - the catamaran AC72 (22 meters) - will be built in a shipyard Valencian Hispanicized crew and managers."



#191 Monster Mash

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:45 PM


Where are they taking delivery?

From the gtran of a Spanish article here,

"As an appetizer, in the first week of July is expected to team Real Club Nautico de Valencia Valencia headquarters receives AC45 ship to train before the first official test in the waters of Portugal."



Thx Stinger
Do you interpet that to mean that they will take delivery in Valencia then ship to Portugal?

#192 pjfranks

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 06:50 PM


RW is an expert in sports marketing and will exploit all the profit centers he can find in the new AC format.


Worth is probably the only expert in sports marketing that is paid more than he generates. Not worth it.


My remark was intended as a joke

#193 Stingray

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:00 PM



Where are they taking delivery?

From the gtran of a Spanish article here,

"As an appetizer, in the first week of July is expected to team Real Club Nautico de Valencia Valencia headquarters receives AC45 ship to train before the first official test in the waters of Portugal."



Thx Stinger
Do you interpret that to mean that they will take delivery in Valencia then ship to Portugal?


If the article has it right, then yes. Valencia may have AR, TC and GR all sailing AC45's by July 10 or so.

Lisbon can't be more than 500 miles from Valencia, am thinking these teams could get their containers to Portugal by train in fairly short order.

I hope Clean comes thru with the Luca interview today, could be a fun and interesting conversation.

#194 Monster Mash

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:06 PM




Where are they taking delivery?

From the gtran of a Spanish article here,

"As an appetizer, in the first week of July is expected to team Real Club Nautico de Valencia Valencia headquarters receives AC45 ship to train before the first official test in the waters of Portugal."



Thx Stinger
Do you interpret that to mean that they will take delivery in Valencia then ship to Portugal?


If the article has it right, then yes. Valencia may have AR, TC and GR all sailing AC45's by July 10 or so.

Lisbon can't be more than 500 miles from Valencia, am thinking these teams could get their containers to Portugal by train in fairly short order.

I hope Clean comes thru with the Luca interview today, could be a fun and interesting conversation.



I'm pretty sure that TC and Artemis are on the same ship trying to get into Cascais/Lisbon. I think they are planning on being tunning partners.

#195 Stingray

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Posted 25 June 2011 - 07:13 PM


I hope Clean comes thru with the Luca interview today, could be a fun and interesting conversation.

I'm pretty sure that TC and Artemis are on the same ship trying to get into Cascais/Lisbon. I think they are planning on being tunning partners.

You may well be right, and the same could be true for GR. From FV:

"Luca Devoti said, in his perfect Spanish worthy of Cervantes, the AC45 has already been purchased and will arrive around 10 July in Cascais."

Clean???

#196 Stingray

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:38 PM

Video (a long announcement, in Italian) text seen here

--

Expo 2015 will take part in the 34th America’s Cup
From video contribution of Giuseppe Sala - Executive Director of Expo2015

It is with great pleasure that Expo 2015 will take part in the 34th America’s Cup.
This sporting event, engaging the entire world, is the first grand event that will
witness Expo 2015 as a participant. There are many reasons for this choice. The
first is the concern for environmental sustainability shared by Green Comm Racing
and Expo 2015. Expo’s mission is to stage a Universal Exposition characterized by
innovativeness also in the field of sustainability. The Expo site will also reflect
these principles: minimized water consumption, appropriate waste management, energy
efficient buildings, the use of recycled and recyclable materials.

The second reason motivating our participation is the historical bond that unites
our two countries, and not just on the cultural level. We are happy to point out
that Spain was one of the first countries to officially announce their
participation in Expo 2015: an affirmation of our excellent relationship.

There is a third reason leading us to sponsor the initiative: the extremely young
age of the crew. One of the fundamental choices we made at the beginning of our
adventure was to focus on young people. And we have done so both when recruiting
architects and designers for the Expo site and when we decided to redesign our
logo. What you see behind me was designed by a young man who has not yet reached the age
of thirty. And seven hundred others like him participated in our quest for a new
logo.

And lastly — let me speak as a sailing enthusiast — this is a sport that perhaps
brings us closer to nature than any other, putting us to the test in direct contact
with the elements.

For all these reasons we feel great satisfaction in seeing the colours of Expo 2015
on the sails of the Spanish entry to the America’s Cup.

The official presentation is scheduled for Thursday but we already know the name of
the ninth and last boat that will compete in the 34th America’s Cup off San
Francisco in 2013: it is from the Real Yacht Club of Valencia, who will be
represented by the Italian team Green Comm Racing.

The agreement had already been sealed last February, but the parties preferred to
hold off the announcement until funding was assured. The boat has already confirmed
its participation in the World Series that will begin in August in Cascais,
Portugal. Furthermore, according to the Spanish press, the main sponsor is Expo
2015, which will take place in Milan in 4 years with the multimillionaire Francesco
Di Leo in the front row. Just under a week ago, the seven challengers who will try
to take the trophy away from the defender, Oracle, in 2013 were on parade in San
Francisco: the China Team, the French Aleph and Energy Team, the Italian Venezia
Challenge, the Emirates Team New Zealand, Team Korea, and Artemis Racing from
Sweden.
--

#197 Xlot

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 03:53 PM

Video (a long announcement, in Italian) text seen here

--


It's (broken) Spanish, SR :)

#198 Stingray

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Posted 26 June 2011 - 04:03 PM


Video (a long announcement, in Italian) text seen here

--

It's (broken) Spanish, SR :)

Oops! Saw the guy start to speak and just went Eek! without listening.

They have been careful to say the money is all private/commercial and none of it public funds, so hopefully Expo's involvement is no political crime :)

#199 EaglesPDX

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 01:36 AM

What was the deal trying to wedge GC into the AC33 fiasco? Was EB influencing/supporting this effort?

And what was the conversations with LE/BOR during that time?

Valencia Sailing: I have a lot of questions and I will start with the most direct one, asked by several of our readers. Are you a pawn of Alinghi, used in their quest to buy time in order to better prepare for the inevitable one-on-one race with BMW Oracle?

Francesco de Leo: No, we are absolutely not their pawns. This is a challenge that started with completely different objectives and has its own global agenda. It isn't a coincidence that we are called Green Comm and this has to do with my personal background. Probably your readers don't know it but I won the third mobile phone license in Spain when I was managing director of Telecom Italia, the youngest managing director of a listed company in Italy because at the age of 35 I was the managing director of M&A, of international operations, of business development as well as manager of our affiliates abroad. I was in charge of 12,000 employees and 9 billion euros of business.

Valencia Sailing: Let me rephrase the question. Is Green Comm's challenge a delaying tactic used by Alinghi?

Francesco de Leo: No. Look, I have no connection whatsoever with Ernesto Bertarelli…

Valencia Sailing: That was my following question. Are Ernesto Bertarelli or Alinghi, directly or indirectly, financing Green Comm?

Francesco de Leo: The answer is again no. I have to admit I'm also very surprised with these questions that your readers posted on your website. Let me clarify it once and for all. The reason I am talking to you today is to clarify that this is an independent, unrelated challenge and I am myself, Francesco de Leo, organizing it. Everything that is written regarding our association with any other person or entity has to be proven in court or otherwise it is false. I can assure you that tonight, I can call my lawyers in Madrid. In fact, yesterday I had a meeting with Niccoló Bastianini, head of our legal advisory team and one of the best lawyers in Italy. Bastianini is in constant contact with my lawyers in Lausanne and one has to be aware that if one decides to make affirmations not substantiated by evidence, they will have to be accountable.





#200 Stingray

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Posted 27 June 2011 - 01:58 AM

In all of the time that TC must have wasted, trying to find old gotcha's from way back when, when the possibility existed that GCR was an EB encouraged attemp to buy more time for himself, as it obviously was a goal with the last minute appeals, etc: TC must surely have found but ignored the posts some of us made, admiring the audacity that de Leo displayed in believing he could front a 90x90 when everyone else had thrown up their hands.

The statement made on Thursday had the same flavor of audacity and I hope that fearlessness and confidence resonates well into the LVC. With the talent already literally center stage? I say: Watch out.

Cool theme too, SF may cotton onto that message big time.




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