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"America's Cup Uncovered" Show


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#101 GauchoGreg

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:23 PM



I try to use the term Pay-to-view or pay-for-view to describe the subscription services of Comcast, BSkyB etc. I believe this is correct. If you don't pay your cable (Comcast) bill you do not view anything, you pay to view or you pay for your all your viewing.

I try not to use Pay-per-View as that is subset within Pay-to-view, paying an additional premium for specific shows.

Like a majority of American's I get my information via the internet, watch movies on home monitors via the internet. The only time I employ Pay-for-view is during NFL season when I use my Pay-for-view DirectTV to add the premium Pay-per-view NFL ticket to watch...are you ready...the Eagles. DirectTV lets you suspend service for six months a year which is a nice feature.

Hope that explains what can be a confusing layer of pay for services.

In regard to AC34, I think they should have the America's Cup live on the web as a pay-per-view subscrtiption. Pay per view since it does not apply to one's entire internet viewing just a specific program, ergo the "per". I'd offer AC free with ads for basic services and a $20 enhanced version with no ads and all the on screen heads up display stuff, multi screens etc.

1- Any evidence available?


In surveys conducted by the Pew Project for Excellence in Journalism, 34% of respondents said they read news online within the past 24 hours (as opposed to 31% who favored newspapers); and a full 41% said they get most of their news online, 10% more than those who said they got most of their news from a newspaper Of course, the 18-to-29-year-old group overwhelmingly cast their vote with the web; 65% said the Internet was their main news source.


Man, you are so full of it. Is it in you to ever said "I was wrong", or "I misspoke"?

Your explanation is bullshit. You implied the majority of Americans don't use "pay-for-view". That is bullshit. Most Americans do subscribe to cable/satellite service. And you did originally imply it was pay-PER-view. Also, there is a HUGE difference between getting information and viewing entertainment/sports. The VAST majority of sports viewing is done through subscription media, not pay-per-view, not streaming.

#102 Rennmaus

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:40 PM


- Info about the boats was missed, like measures and technical data, incl. graphics.
- Same for the race format, no mention, no graphics, leaves the viewer wondering about what to expect at the events.
- No info about why there are two boat classes.
- The national aspect (e.g. China vs. Sweden, USA vs. NZ) is not emphasized enough and would increase the attention and identification of the general public.
- More historical footage to underline the importance of the event/Cup competition is needed.
=> The first of many programs, so there is still a lot of potential. All in all a very well made format, professionally presented.


Oh, don't you worry. There are going to be eighty-nine more of these. Hooraaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay.

I don't worry at all (at least not about a sailboat race), and I think I made it clear that I am well aware of episodes to come.

#103 EaglesPDX

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:42 PM

The VAST majority of sports viewing is done through subscription media, not pay-per-view, not streaming.


Actually most is free over the air broadcast. NFL for example. ESPN and NFLNetwork require pay-for-view subscription services and then those channels may be additional pay-per-view premiums.

Currently, the American terrestrial television networks CBS ($3.73B), NBC ($3.6B) and Fox ($4.27B) as well as cable television's ESPN ($8.8B) are paying a combined total of $20.4 billion to broadcast NFL games through the 2011 season for CBS, Fox, and NBC and through 2013 for ESPN.



#104 Rennmaus

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:55 PM

2- Why?


I control the vertical, I control the horizontal. I think watching TV is too passive when one can get the info on the internet, drill down or up. I like how many online news providers add Google Map links to stories.

So the alternative for you would be TV or one-dimensional streaming, now this mantra makes some sense. You waste no thought on free streaming, no? In the end it would generate more viewers and therefore more eyes for the event's and teams' sponsors. The old discussion we had during AC33, remember? During the LVPS, BT was advocating this direction (not specifically WRT to broadcasts but in general WRT revenue by visibility, criticizing EB for his TV deals, IIRC).

#105 katie burns

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:00 PM

I don't worry at all (at least not about a sailboat race), and I think I made it clear that I am well aware of episodes to come.


I was just joshing ... I was more commenting on the show, not anything you said.

#106 EaglesPDX

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:28 PM

So the alternative for you would be TV or one-dimensional streaming

Actually I prefer eight dimensional streaming that will have to wait for my di-lithium crystals to cool...another couple hundred internet years.

Web broadcast is the way to go. It's how people get their information from news to movies.

You waste no thought on free streaming, no?

I would have the free web broadcast with ads and some heads up graphics and premium subscription for no ads, full heads up overlay graphics I could toggle off/on, split screen to have both boats up, maybe pick my camera feeds and miked favorite person. Subscription puts the viewer in the console, controlling what he see and hears.

In the end it would generate more viewers and therefore more eyes for the event's and teams' sponsors.


If you mean the web broadcast, without a doubt it is the way to go for max audience and revenue.

#107 GauchoGreg

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 07:09 PM

I ask again, is it in you to admit you are wrong about anything? First, you claim ac.com WILL put the shows on pay-per-view after one week, unable to cite proof anywhere. Then you claim you meant pay-for-view, but also claim the majority of Americans get ther media online, not through subscription (cable/sat). Then you use bogus stats related to news, rather than the more pertinent sports. Then you talk about how major sports are predominantly broadcast by the more major broadcasters, do in fact use the public airwaves, neglecting go mention that they also broadcast over cable/sat.

So, it took me a 5-second google search to find that 56% of Americans subscribe to cable (
http://www.csun.edu/science/health/docs/tv&health.html). What is going to be your next BS explanation?

Fact of the matter, we don't know whether they are going to have old shows available after a week or not. We certainly have nothing to indicate they will be pay-per-view. Most people have cable, or they can get most shows on-line. The minor cable channels like Versus have done well with sports outside the major sports ( see Tour du France). You can bet your ass the organizers are getting the best media source they can. And you might want to take a breath before you dig your heels in on some claims you make with nothing to back them up with.


The VAST majority of sports viewing is done through subscription media, not pay-per-view, not streaming.


Actually most is free over the air broadcast. NFL for example. ESPN and NFLNetwork require pay-for-view subscription services and then those channels may be additional pay-per-view premiums.

Currently, the American terrestrial television networks CBS ($3.73B), NBC ($3.6B) and Fox ($4.27B) as well as cable television's ESPN ($8.8B) are paying a combined total of $20.4 billion to broadcast NFL games through the 2011 season for CBS, Fox, and NBC and through 2013 for ESPN.



#108 K38BOB

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:17 PM

It's like some photograph of the Russian revolution where there's a gap at Lenin's side where Trotsky has been air-brushed out of history. ML as CoR - gone. RC's sojourn at Alinghi - gone.

Those "I am an athlete and my body is a templet" shots of JS in the gym were slightly undermined by the footage of his stuffing a burger into his mouth, shown twice. Though to be fair, the mini-autobio by JS was the most interesting part for me. Anybody else spot that the same reaction shot of a press conference crowd laughing was used twice? Maybe they only laughed the once.

And does the editor receive an electric shock to the genitalia if he holds a shot for more than three seconds?

Ghastly. I feel stupider just through watching it. Maybe it will improve when there is some racing to show.


Seems to be the same event- different cameras. 3:35 is the 1st.
http://www.americascup.com/en/Latest/Gallery/2011/7/Americas-Cup-Uncovered---Episode-1/



I seem to recall only one good laugh- something JS teased RC about

#109 Stingray

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:40 PM

Another good laugh was how RC answers the question "What happened?" and he said "Well we capsized" with a sardonic expression.

But I agree w DW in that I also wondered if they amped the same one twice from different angles. Although it's possible the producer didn't even realize it :)

There are so many clips in this episode that I'm reluctant to get into it; some of them are excellent though, that really is a good producer.

#110 ~HHN92~

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:52 PM

Another good laugh was how RC answers the question "What happened?" and he said "Well we capsized" with a sardonic expression.

But I agree w DW in that I also wondered if they amped the same one twice from different angles. Although it's possible the producer didn't even realize it :)

There are so many clips in this episode that I'm reluctant to get into it; some of them are excellent though, that really is a good producer.


Kind of like Bertrand in '95:

"Can You Describe What Happened?"

"The boat sank."

#111 Stingray

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:45 AM


Another good laugh was how RC answers the question "What happened?" and he said "Well we capsized" with a sardonic expression.

But I agree w DW in that I also wondered if they amped the same one twice from different angles. Although it's possible the producer didn't even realize it :)

There are so many clips in this episode that I'm reluctant to get into it; some of them are excellent though, that really is a good producer.


Kind of like Bertrand in '95:

"Can You Describe What Happened?"

"The boat sank."

Very good.

I hope the several references to AUS will be a boost to that effort.

#112 katie burns

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:51 AM

I wrote a piece on it:

http://dudewheresmyboat.blogspot.com/

You'll notice that I used some of my comments from earlier in this thread.

It's meant to be lighthearted and funny, so don't take anything I write very seriously. Ever.

#113 katie burns

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 12:53 AM

And before you ask: yes, I have a lot of time on my hands. I'm injured. Womp womp.

#114 Stingray

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 03:14 AM

Nice effort, KB.

Am not going to try find that frame ATM since am on an iPhone screen but iirc in this sequence, cool screen shot, he had an AC decal on his board? You had to be watching very closely to see.

http://4.bp.blogspot...o/s1600/ACB.jpg

#115 katie burns

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:30 AM

Nice effort, KB.

Am not going to try find that frame ATM since am on an iPhone screen but iirc in this sequence, cool screen shot, he had an AC decal on his board? You had to be watching very closely to see.

http://4.bp.blogspot...o/s1600/ACB.jpg


I didn't catch that! That's pretty cool :)

My friend Paul Oliva just told me that the AC-72 rendering was sweet except that the seabreeze doesn't come from the East. I haven't spent enough time in San Fran to know the difference.

#116 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 02:37 PM

I don't know if that is the best thread regarding security but....

I already said that i thought the best security was to have chicken lines for some positions and straps to use like a ladder if necessary.
Here is an picture coming from KT:
http://www.voilesetv...emote_view/5972

#117 nav

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 04:35 PM

I don't know if that is the best thread regarding security but....

I already said that i thought the best security was to have chicken lines for some positions and straps to use like a ladder if necessary.
Here is an picture coming from KT:
http://www.voilesetv...emote_view/5972


Here is a picture that was posted all over the board on the day the boat capsized you mean. What does it tell us exactly??

#118 nzlboy

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 06:54 PM

YAWN - FFS get someone who can actually produce something - it sent me to sleep three times.

#119 AClass USA 230

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Posted 01 August 2011 - 08:01 PM

YAWN - FFS get someone who can actually produce something - it sent me to sleep three times.


+1, I nodded off twice but overall I'll grade it as fair with the hope it will improve. More on-board sailing footage surrounding the personalities they want to highlight I think would be a good first step.

#120 Stingray

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 12:24 AM

It's pretty good for the purposes but the Live Races are what most of us are surely anticipating, a ~completely~ different kind of production. It looks from all indications that the racing, and its coverage, will be truly outstanding. Looking forward to it.

Btw, may have been posted elsewhere but there was a tweet today suggesting that all the documentary episodes they produce will be preserved at their YouTube urls. I hope the races will be too but am not sure YT allows productions that lengthy?

#121 GauchoGreg

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 12:41 AM

It's pretty good for the purposes but the Live Races are what most of us are surely anticipating, a ~completely~ different kind of production. It looks from all indications that the racing, and its coverage, will be truly outstanding. Looking forward to it.

Btw, may have been posted elsewhere but there was a tweet today suggesting that all the documentary episodes they produce will be preserved at their YouTube urls. I hope the races will be too but am not sure YT allows productions that lengthy?



But but but, Eagles says they are only going to be available pay-per-view.

:P

#122 EaglesPDX

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 12:51 AM

It's pretty good for the purposes but the Live Races are what most of us are surely anticipating, a ~completely~ different kind of production. It looks from all indications that the racing, and its coverage, will be truly outstanding. Looking forward to it.

Btw, may have been posted elsewhere but there was a tweet today suggesting that all the documentary episodes they produce will be preserved at their YouTube urls. I hope the races will be too but am not sure YT allows productions that lengthy?


Be nice if they stated that flat out on the website and setup a library link area. "View the entire series here!". But it sure looks like they sold it out to some obscure cable TV roller derby channel(s).

#123 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 01:07 AM

It's pretty good for the purposes but the Live Races are what most of us are surely anticipating, a ~completely~ different kind of production. It looks from all indications that the racing, and its coverage, will be truly outstanding. Looking forward to it.

I compare Uncovered to surf/snowboard/skiing films, and this is just straight up weak when you do that. Sunset+Vine are used to doing pretty dry stuff though, and they have a long way to go if they are to capture an audience that wasn't already planning on checking it out.

Btw, may have been posted elsewhere but there was a tweet today suggesting that all the documentary episodes they produce will be preserved at their YouTube urls. I hope the races will be too but am not sure YT allows productions that lengthy?

ACAlphabet have already made a deal with YT, as you can tell by the fact that they can post a 24-minute video - 9 minutes longer than YT's standard limit. Some producers can post vids as long as they like.

#124 Stingray

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:47 AM

at Alinghi, good clips



#125 Xlot

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 02:34 PM

^^ Very nice SR, had never seen it. And don't get me started ..

#126 Duddits

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:16 PM

As a hearing impaired viewer I would have appreciated closed captioning. Small thing but makes for a much more satisfying experience and in particular when the various accents come in to play.

#127 Coolerking

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:17 PM

you want a sailing video to be as exiting as a baja 1000 video?? never gonna happen.


#128 scassani

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:17 PM

Well presented!

#129 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:31 PM

you want a sailing video to be as exiting as a baja 1000 video?? never gonna happen.


Not with the present production company, that's for sure!

#130 Dixie

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 03:52 PM

at Alinghi, good clips



I know I've had my head into Laser 4.7s lately, but did I miss something? I cannot tell you how much it would bring to the game (for me and for fans who love a good rivalry grudge match) if Alinghi came back in. This looks like the preview of something big. I spoke to a woman yesterday who worked for EB for a long time and she said he *never* changed his mind once he set it, though as he's gotten older, she said, perhaps there's some latitude in those decisions. Posted Image I want the cup to stay in SF, but gosh I'd love to see EB give LE a run for his money.

#131 Mariner

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 04:18 PM


at Alinghi, good clips



I know I've had my head into Laser 4.7s lately, but did I miss something? I cannot tell you how much it would bring to the game (for me and for fans who love a good rivalry grudge match) if Alinghi came back in. This looks like the preview of something big. I spoke to a woman yesterday who worked for EB for a long time and she said he *never* changed his mind once he set it, though as he's gotten older, she said, perhaps there's some latitude in those decisions. Posted Image I want the cup to stay in SF, but gosh I'd love to see EB give LE a run for his money.



I second that.

#132 Foghorn77

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 04:22 PM


at Alinghi, good clips



I know I've had my head into Laser 4.7s lately, but did I miss something? I cannot tell you how much it would bring to the game (for me and for fans who love a good rivalry grudge match) if Alinghi came back in. This looks like the preview of something big. I spoke to a woman yesterday who worked for EB for a long time and she said he *never* changed his mind once he set it, though as he's gotten older, she said, perhaps there's some latitude in those decisions. Posted Image I want the cup to stay in SF, but gosh I'd love to see EB give LE a run for his money.


+1000
It'd definitely spice things up.

#133 nav

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Posted 02 August 2011 - 06:46 PM



at Alinghi, good clips



I know I've had my head into Laser 4.7s lately, but did I miss something? I cannot tell you how much it would bring to the game (for me and for fans who love a good rivalry grudge match) if Alinghi came back in. This looks like the preview of something big. I spoke to a woman yesterday who worked for EB for a long time and she said he *never* changed his mind once he set it, though as he's gotten older, she said, perhaps there's some latitude in those decisions. Posted Image I want the cup to stay in SF, but gosh I'd love to see EB give LE a run for his money.


+1000
It'd definitely spice things up.


And I say, leave the spoilt, rule bending, team buying, bullying, corrupted, unsportsman-like loser to play in his private class on his private lake with his snobby, eurocentric 'mates'.

Just say'in

#134 umpire

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:12 AM




at Alinghi, good clips



I know I've had my head into Laser 4.7s lately, but did I miss something? I cannot tell you how much it would bring to the game (for me and for fans who love a good rivalry grudge match) if Alinghi came back in. This looks like the preview of something big. I spoke to a woman yesterday who worked for EB for a long time and she said he *never* changed his mind once he set it, though as he's gotten older, she said, perhaps there's some latitude in those decisions. Posted Image I want the cup to stay in SF, but gosh I'd love to see EB give LE a run for his money.


+1000
It'd definitely spice things up.


And I say, leave the spoilt, rule bending, team buying, bullying, corrupted, unsportsman-like loser to play in his private class on his private lake with his snobby, eurocentric 'mates'.

Just say'in


Ah,but they make a good video.

By the way, which rules did he bend when he won AC31 and 32?

#135 tomtom

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:38 AM





at Alinghi, good clips



I know I've had my head into Laser 4.7s lately, but did I miss something? I cannot tell you how much it would bring to the game (for me and for fans who love a good rivalry grudge match) if Alinghi came back in. This looks like the preview of something big. I spoke to a woman yesterday who worked for EB for a long time and she said he *never* changed his mind once he set it, though as he's gotten older, she said, perhaps there's some latitude in those decisions. Posted Image I want the cup to stay in SF, but gosh I'd love to see EB give LE a run for his money.


+1000
It'd definitely spice things up.


And I say, leave the spoilt, rule bending, team buying, bullying, corrupted, unsportsman-like loser to play in his private class on his private lake with his snobby, eurocentric 'mates'.

Just say'in


Ah,but they make a good video.

By the way, which rules did he bend when he won AC31 and 32?


Yep, he is a twice AC winning, catamaran loving, rich sailing fanatic with a knack of putting together winning teams who screwed up once. Compare that to LE, who screwed up loaaaads of times and only won once by, lets face it, outsmarting EB on the legal field and then outspending (and outballsing) him on the design and build front. That won't happen again. And yes, EB is the first guy to bring the AC back to Europe and creating a real AC buzz here. That did not exist beforehand. He made that happen, and see what is happening now? 4 out of 8 teams are European. So yes, Eurocentric, and deservedly so -without them it would be a puny field of 2 US boats, newbies Korea and China and TNZ, not the stuff that RCs wet dreams are made off (and god knows, I'd hate to know what they really are!)

Where are the Americans? Only 1 team, and they have to be there.... No US challengers, no nothing 300 million people, the richest economy in the world and poor old struggling Europe with its Euro crisis is ante'ing up 4 boats??

So the best thing that can happen to the AC is to get yet another European, colourful, smart, passionate and succesful racer there to mix it up. Can't wait. But will it happen? Well EB is smart if nothing else and only plays for keeps, so only if he sees his chances and only he can assess those.

#136 umpire

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:59 AM

tomtom, prepare for incoming when the otherside of the pond wakes up this morning

ps well said

#137 Xlot

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:09 AM

ps well said


And, if EB came back I'm betting LR would follow suit

#138 tomtom

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:17 AM


ps well said


And, if EB came back I'm betting LR would follow suit


Sorry, looked it up on the TLA list, but can't find LR?

Cheers!

Tom

#139 Xlot

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:28 AM

^^ You're right, glaring omission: it's Luna Rossa / Prada / Patrizio Bertelli's (aka PB, missing too) team

But I think we've deviated (thanks to Dixie, lovely gal) into "1 Defender, 2 Challengers Only?" territory :)


And, the new, improved Mr.Clean gets kudos for a classy comment on the Alinghi video on the mischievous FP - no hard feelings for when he was 'martyred', I see. BTW what was the story then (wasn't following yet) and mainly what about the white chairs?

#140 nav

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:25 AM







I know I've had my head into Laser 4.7s lately, but did I miss something? I cannot tell you how much it would bring to the game (for me and for fans who love a good rivalry grudge match) if Alinghi came back in. This looks like the preview of something big. I spoke to a woman yesterday who worked for EB for a long time and she said he *never* changed his mind once he set it, though as he's gotten older, she said, perhaps there's some latitude in those decisions. Posted Image I want the cup to stay in SF, but gosh I'd love to see EB give LE a run for his money.


+1000
It'd definitely spice things up.


And I say, leave the spoilt, rule bending, team buying, bullying, corrupted, unsportsman-like loser to play in his private class on his private lake with his snobby, eurocentric 'mates'.

Just say'in


Ah,but they make a good video.

By the way, which rules did he bend when he won AC31 and 32?


Yep, he is a twice AC winning, catamaran loving, rich sailing fanatic with a knack of putting together winning teams who screwed up once. Compare that to LE, who screwed up loaaaads of times and only won once by, lets face it, outsmarting EB on the legal field and then outspending (and outballsing) him on the design and build front. That won't happen again. And yes, EB is the first guy to bring the AC back to Europe and creating a real AC buzz here. That did not exist beforehand. He made that happen, and see what is happening now? 4 out of 8 teams are European. So yes, Eurocentric, and deservedly so -without them it would be a puny field of 2 US boats, newbies Korea and China and TNZ, not the stuff that RCs wet dreams are made off (and god knows, I'd hate to know what they really are!)

Where are the Americans? Only 1 team, and they have to be there.... No US challengers, no nothing 300 million people, the richest economy in the world and poor old struggling Europe with its Euro crisis is ante'ing up 4 boats??

So the best thing that can happen to the AC is to get yet another European, colourful, smart, passionate and succesful racer there to mix it up. Can't wait. But will it happen? Well EB is smart if nothing else and only plays for keeps, so only if he sees his chances and only he can assess those.





back to Europe / No US challengers - Clearly don't know much about the AC

the richest economy in the world and poor old struggling Europe - Clearly don't know much about economics

colourful, smart, passionate and succesful racer there to mix it up - so which Kiwi is he buying now?



Yeah yeah, Ernesto's involvement in the Cup was really positive - not




#141 dogwatch

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:35 AM

Yeah yeah, Ernesto's involvement in the Cup was really positive - not


AC32 was, by far, the best round since Fremantle and there looks sod all chance of AC34 coming close. EB ran a good show. As for AC33, no there is nothing positive to say about EB's conduct.

#142 tomtom

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:55 AM

back to Europe / No US challengers - Clearly don't know much about the AC

the richest economy in the world and poor old struggling Europe - Clearly don't know much about economics

colourful, smart, passionate and succesful racer there to mix it up - so which Kiwi is he buying now?



Yeah yeah, Ernesto's involvement in the Cup was really positive - not




1) Yeah yeah yeah, I know very well that there could/should be defender trials (whay arent there any), and US teams are therefore not challengers but challengers to defend the AC. Mincing words there. BUT this is not the AC, nor the LV, just a race called the ACWS, with OR giving themselves the title "Defender" so any challenger for the defense would be just called a challenger (Yep, F.off)
2) poor US with their $$$$$$Bn deficit are maybe about to lose their AAA S&P rating. BUT Greece is close to dirt, Ireland is under close supervision by IMF, Portugal is on the brink, Spain has 22% unemployment and Italy is having urgent debt restructuring talks. All of this is funded/supported by billions of Euros by those EU countries that are still in an OK state. Funnily enough, of all these countries, only Switzerland has 2.8% unemployment (lowest in the world after Singapore) and the CHF trades at 0.88 to the dollar (used to be twice that) and 1.1 to the Euro (used to be 50-60% higher). So what about economics then??? (Yep, F.off)
3) Your response is very passionate, proves 1 point about "mixing it up". I said that he is smart to put the best teams together, so your response about the kiwis also proves that point. He has won the AC fair and square twice (once in NZ) and a few other trophies, so he is succesful, more succesful than some other tycoons you'd care to mention.
And yes, he screwed up his third AC but without his vision to make it a succesful commercial spectacle event in Europe, it would not have the springboard that it currently has.
And yes, he would be an addition, at least it would set the SAAC boards alight... (or is that alinghi ;-)

#143 nroose

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 12:29 PM

I know I am late with this, but I think the ac uncovered show, while I watched it, and it somewhat satisfied my thirst, was just bad. Shots of sf in the side mirror of Jimmy's car??? Really???

#144 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:09 PM

Yep, he is a twice AC winning, catamaran loving, rich sailing fanatic with a knack of putting together winning teams who screwed up once.


It wasn't that Bertarelli "screwed up" it was that he was essentially going to destroy the America's Cup by changing the event and manipulating who the challenger would be as Fisher and others describe very clearly. America's Cup and its fans owe Ellison a vote of thanks for stopping Bertarelli in court, stopping Bertarelli on the water and moving the America's Cup into the 21st century with multihulls and multimedia.

Hard to understand the antipathy to Ellison, just a billionaire sailor doing what he likes to do, always a plus for every sailing event he's in from Sydney Hobart to America's Cup. The criticism here of the video is the same recycled complaints about Ellison, mindlessly applied to everything AC34. Any professional would say the video as first part of a series to increase public interest in the America's Cup is an excellent video.

He's spending probably $500M to give us a fantastic America's Cup in San Francisco in multihulls. The $100M he's spending to build the video presentation of the race to make it accessible to a much greater audience is a huge contribution. Could see this technology ending up on the Extreme Sailing boats and others once the AC34 is over. The video pitch of "America's Cup Uncovered" is part of Ellison's contribution to raise the profile of sailing.

#145 Rennmaus

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:14 PM

So why do you criticize the website then, why is this particular item excluded from all the LE efforts?

#146 tomtom

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:27 PM


Yep, he is a twice AC winning, catamaran loving, rich sailing fanatic with a knack of putting together winning teams who screwed up once.


It wasn't that Bertarelli "screwed up" it was that he was essentially going to destroy the America's Cup by changing the event and manipulating who the challenger would be as Fisher and others describe very clearly. America's Cup and its fans owe Ellison a vote of thanks for stopping Bertarelli in court, stopping Bertarelli on the water and moving the America's Cup into the 21st century with multihulls and multimedia.

Hard to understand the antipathy to Ellison, just a billionaire sailor doing what he likes to do, always a plus for every sailing event he's in from Sydney Hobart to America's Cup. The criticism here of the video is the same recycled complaints about Ellison, mindlessly applied to everything AC34. Any professional would say the video as first part of a series to increase public interest in the America's Cup is an excellent video.

He's spending probably $500M to give us a fantastic America's Cup in San Francisco in multihulls. The $100M he's spending to build the video presentation of the race to make it accessible to a much greater audience is a huge contribution. Could see this technology ending up on the Extreme Sailing boats and others once the AC34 is over. The video pitch of "America's Cup Uncovered" is part of Ellison's contribution to raise the profile of sailing.


Sorry old eagle, you misunderstand me, I have nothing particularly against LE, I just don't think that EBs track record is that bad, and definitely not worse than LE (and yes, you can have your bad trip vibes over the infamous AC33 protocol) and I think that having EB participate in AC34 would add a lot of spice and unpredictability as we all know he can win, and will only participate if he sees a chance. If you ask all other challengers whether they would want him in, they would probably say "no thanks, life is difficult enough as it is!"

#147 tomtom

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:31 PM


Yep, he is a twice AC winning, catamaran loving, rich sailing fanatic with a knack of putting together winning teams who screwed up once.


It wasn't that Bertarelli "screwed up" it was that he was essentially going to destroy the America's Cup by changing the event and manipulating who the challenger would be as Fisher and others describe very clearly. America's Cup and its fans owe Ellison a vote of thanks for stopping Bertarelli in court, stopping Bertarelli on the water and moving the America's Cup into the 21st century with multihulls and multimedia.

Hard to understand the antipathy to Ellison, just a billionaire sailor doing what he likes to do, always a plus for every sailing event he's in from Sydney Hobart to America's Cup. The criticism here of the video is the same recycled complaints about Ellison, mindlessly applied to everything AC34. Any professional would say the video as first part of a series to increase public interest in the America's Cup is an excellent video.

He's spending probably $500M to give us a fantastic America's Cup in San Francisco in multihulls. The $100M he's spending to build the video presentation of the race to make it accessible to a much greater audience is a huge contribution. Could see this technology ending up on the Extreme Sailing boats and others once the AC34 is over. The video pitch of "America's Cup Uncovered" is part of Ellison's contribution to raise the profile of sailing.


Sorry old eagle, you misunderstand me, I have nothing particularly against LE, I just don't think that EBs track record is that bad, and definitely not worse than LE (and yes, you can have your bad trip vibes over the infamous AC33 protocol) and I think that having EB participate in AC34 would add a lot of spice and unpredictability as we all know he can win, and will only participate if he sees a chance. If you ask all other challengers whether they would want him in, they would probably say "no thanks, life is difficult enough as it is!"

#148 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:31 PM

So why do you criticize the website then, why is this particular item excluded from all the LE efforts?


Constructive criticism. Overall I think Ellison has been the best thing to happen to the America's Cup since Conners Fremantle comeback and San Diego winged cat win, both of which are history repeating themselves in AC34 with the winged cat and the media coverage push by Ellison to regain the audience Conners won for the event that was lost afterward by dull sailing.

I was critical also of Ellison's not using his money to just rebuild SF waterfront (he still may do that with the areas he gains long term lease to) and finance a "Viaduct" revival for SF in hard economic times. Along the lines of his pledge to leave most of his money to public, this would be a good way to do that. The phony war over Newport vs. San Francisco.

Clearly the website is neglected and badly formed. Very flashy but hard to find info and it's missing a lot of information. NFL Network would be the guide. They hire their own commentator crew to post information. AC34 should have done the same and had it's own bona fide journos on the job doing stories, getting answers to questions etc.

But the bottom line is Ellison's efforts in the America's Cup are exemplary, sportsmanlike and in the best interest of the America's Cup and sailing.

Back to the video, it's a great intro video, well done and gets people up to speed on the event. I sure hope they don't bury it in pay-for-view limbo after just seven days viewing.

#149 Rennmaus

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:43 PM

Most, if not all, criticism of the video was constructive too. So your criticism is o.k., others' not? The way you see the world is o.k., others' not?

#150 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 03:52 PM

I have nothing particularly against LE, I just don't think that EBs track record is that bad, and definitely not worse than LE (and yes, you can have your bad trip vibes over the infamous AC33 protocol) and I think that having EB participate in AC34 would add a lot of spice and unpredictability as we all know he can win, and will only participate if he sees a chance. If you ask all other challengers whether they would want him in, they would probably say "no thanks, life is difficult enough as it is!"


Ellison has been nothing but positive for the America's Cup, a guy pouring money and effort into it, playing by the rules and respecting the event.

Bertarelli clearly tried to hijack the event. Bob Fisher's various explanations of this are probably the best. It's just a world of difference. Prior to Bertarelli's hijack scheme he was doing fine but that is a huge blackmark for him vs none for Ellison.

Bertarelli back in AC would again threaten the event for all the same reasons.

Rehashing Bertarelli by posting Alinghi videos on an thread about AC34 videos is a waste of time and is done by folks with mindless antipathy to anything and everything Ellison does.

#151 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:27 PM


I have nothing particularly against LE, I just don't think that EBs track record is that bad, and definitely not worse than LE (and yes, you can have your bad trip vibes over the infamous AC33 protocol) and I think that having EB participate in AC34 would add a lot of spice and unpredictability as we all know he can win, and will only participate if he sees a chance. If you ask all other challengers whether they would want him in, they would probably say "no thanks, life is difficult enough as it is!"


Ellison has been nothing but positive for the America's Cup, a guy pouring money and effort into it, playing by the rules and respecting the event.

Bertarelli clearly tried to hijack the event. Bob Fisher's various explanations of this are probably the best. It's just a world of difference. Prior to Bertarelli's hijack scheme he was doing fine but that is a huge blackmark for him vs none for Ellison.

Bertarelli back in AC would again threaten the event for all the same reasons.

Rehashing Bertarelli by posting Alinghi videos on an thread about AC34 videos is a waste of time and is done by folks with mindless antipathy to anything and everything Ellison does.

The reason I posted the Alinghi video on the front page today is because it was very good, stayed on mission, and used powerful shots, good sound bites, and powerful music to make its point. AC Uncovered producers S+V need to get a lot better at what they're doing if they will make a difference. Their experience doing the weekly shows for the VOR, Velux, CNN's Mainsail show, and Seamaster Sailing will not serve them here - none of those shows were any good if you compare them to the leading edge in other sports, and none built any real international fan base outside of devoting sailing enthusiasts. Someone needs to quit hiring british editors and start hiring California surf video producers. But it won't happen, and the show's destiny will be to languish in the no-man's land of expensive video that few watch.

The most obvious indicator of how good the AC Uncovered episode is total views, and they are below 10,000 after 4 days online. That is just pitiful considering the massive ability that the AC PR machine has to drive traffic, and it means that people are simply not sitting through the video until the end; Youtube only counts views of those that watch something like 80% of a video. That's exactly what our review said - it was dull, and we got bored after 5 minutes, as did everyone we showed it to. And guess what? That's what the numbers show, too.

#152 Te Kooti

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:36 PM

Yep, he is a twice AC winning, catamaran loving, rich sailing fanatic with a knack of putting together winning teams who screwed up once. Compare that to LE, who screwed up loaaaads of times and only won once by, lets face it, outsmarting EB on the legal field and then outspending (and outballsing) him on the design and build front. That won't happen again. And yes, EB is the first guy to bring the AC back to Europe and creating a real AC buzz here. That did not exist beforehand. He made that happen, and see what is happening now? 4 out of 8 teams are European. So yes, Eurocentric, and deservedly so -without them it would be a puny field of 2 US boats, newbies Korea and China and TNZ, not the stuff that RCs wet dreams are made off (and god knows, I'd hate to know what they really are!)

Where are the Americans? Only 1 team, and they have to be there.... No US challengers, no nothing 300 million people, the richest economy in the world and poor old struggling Europe with its Euro crisis is ante'ing up 4 boats??

So the best thing that can happen to the AC is to get yet another European, colourful, smart, passionate and succesful racer there to mix it up. Can't wait. But will it happen? Well EB is smart if nothing else and only plays for keeps, so only if he sees his chances and only he can assess those.


Jeez, despite compelling evidence to the contrary, it sounds like Maid Marian is posting from upstairs.

And making some good points.

#153 nav

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:39 PM



I have nothing particularly against LE, I just don't think that EBs track record is that bad, and definitely not worse than LE (and yes, you can have your bad trip vibes over the infamous AC33 protocol) and I think that having EB participate in AC34 would add a lot of spice and unpredictability as we all know he can win, and will only participate if he sees a chance. If you ask all other challengers whether they would want him in, they would probably say "no thanks, life is difficult enough as it is!"


Ellison has been nothing but positive for the America's Cup, a guy pouring money and effort into it, playing by the rules and respecting the event.

Bertarelli clearly tried to hijack the event. Bob Fisher's various explanations of this are probably the best. It's just a world of difference. Prior to Bertarelli's hijack scheme he was doing fine but that is a huge blackmark for him vs none for Ellison.

Bertarelli back in AC would again threaten the event for all the same reasons.

Rehashing Bertarelli by posting Alinghi videos on an thread about AC34 videos is a waste of time and is done by folks with mindless antipathy to anything and everything Ellison does.

The reason I posted the Alinghi video on the front page today is because it was very good, stayed on mission, and used powerful shots, good sound bites, and powerful music to make its point. AC Uncovered producers S+V need to get a lot better at what they're doing if they will make a difference. Their experience doing the weekly shows for the VOR, Velux, CNN's Mainsail show, and Seamaster Sailing will not serve them here - none of those shows were any good if you compare them to the leading edge in other sports, and none built any real international fan base outside of devoting sailing enthusiasts. Someone needs to quit hiring british editors and start hiring California surf video producers. But it won't happen, and the show's destiny will be to languish in the no-man's land of expensive video that few watch.

The most obvious indicator of how good the AC Uncovered episode is total views, and they are below 10,000 after 4 days online. That is just pitiful considering the massive ability that the AC PR machine has to drive traffic, and it means that people are simply not sitting through the video until the end; Youtube only counts views of those that watch something like 80% of a video. That's exactly what our review said - it was dull, and we got bored after 5 minutes, as did everyone we showed it to. And guess what? That's what the numbers show, too.



Your opinion of the piece is worth as much as the next persons but your statistical analysis sucks. In short your conclusions are not supported by the data you cite (one number).



#154 Xlot

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 04:46 PM

^^ OTOH, this means they need just 59,990,000 additional viewers to reach their stated goal for Cascais :D

#155 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:00 PM

Your opinion of the piece is worth as much as the next persons but your statistical analysis sucks. In short your conclusions are not supported by the data you cite (one number).



I have posted 1700 videos to YouTube on my own account and have a total of over 2 million total views. I had almost 4 million but YT made a big change to their view counts last year that cut mine in half, and it all had to do with exactly how long videos are watched. I have very detailed analytic tools available that have helped me understand exactly how YT counts and what they count, and it's knowledge that took me a long time to accumulate.

My opinion of the piece was that it was dull and dragged on, and that getting all the way to the end would be tough for anyone but die-hard sailing fans.

The fact that it has under 10,000 views in four days is good evidence that I was EXACTLY right, and evidence that ACU, without major changes, will be a major flop, regardless of medium.

For comparison's sake, we posted an interview of beautiful and accomplished Melges 24 sailor Amy Ironmonger a few months back. The interview was around 10 minutes long, and it got 13,000 views in 48 hours. It was only posted on the SA front page - no other sites picked it up - and we had no press release or content distribution effort involved. Our hour-long interview with Grant Dalton had something like 6500 views in a week. That was ONE HOUR of 640 x 480 video with shitty audio, no high speed renderings, no animation, and Dalts eating eggs. Total budget was 0.00 (although I did edit with Final Cut Pro X at $300, so let's just say it was $300)

My conclusion is that even the most enthusiastic sailors (like our readers) are more interested in hearing a pretty girl talk about sailing than they are in watching America's Cup Uncovered. Almost as many sailors will sit through an hour-long, no bells-or-whistles interview with Grant Dalton as will sit through a dull but high-dollar production from the world's premier sailing video production company.

What's your conclusion?

#156 katie burns

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:27 PM

Someone needs to quit hiring british editors and start hiring California surf video producers.


+1, +1000. Single best thought in this entire thread.

#157 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 05:36 PM

Or Petey!

#158 EVK4

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:22 PM

How about this? Take a screenprint of the # of youtube viewers a minute before you post it on the front page. Wait 24 hours, take another screenprint. Send them side by side to ACXX with a proposal for distribution or production. Nobody but the 18 circlejerkers in this forum even know about this video, you can easily point that out to them and make some money.


My conclusion is that even the most enthusiastic sailors (like our readers) are more interested in hearing a pretty girl talk about sailing than they are in watching America's Cup Uncovered. Almost as many sailors will sit through an hour-long, no bells-or-whistles interview with Grant Dalton as will sit through a dull but high-dollar production from the world's premier sailing video production company.

What's your conclusion?



#159 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:43 PM

The most obvious indicator of how good the AC Uncovered episode is total views, and they are below 10,000 after 4 days online. That is just pitiful considering the massive ability that the AC PR machine has to drive traffic, and it means that people are simply not sitting through the video until the end; Youtube only counts views of those that watch something like 80% of a video. That's exactly what our review said - it was dull, and we got bored after 5 minutes, as did everyone we showed it to. And guess what? That's what the numbers show, too.


It would take an advertising campaign by AC34 to promote itself and the video to get online views up. Not sure you can blame that on the film's producers. The AC34 video has 10,000 views, the Alinghi video has 947. What?

The big hits for AC34 have come when they do something to get into the mainstream media, hitting San Francisco Bay being an example. Another reason Cascais and Plymouth make no sense for first races and San Francisco has already demonstrated why would have been a much better choice.

The AC video is fine but it and AC34 need advertising or newsworthy events in big media centers to start getting attention.

massive ability that the AC PR machine has to drive traffic


Other than writing checks to advertise on main stream media to what "massive ability" are you referring? Sending out press releases to media? Due to nature of sailing, AC34 has very little ability other to get in the media other than check book advertising (which is what they should be doing).

#160 SW Sailor

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:44 PM


Your opinion of the piece is worth as much as the next persons but your statistical analysis sucks. In short your conclusions are not supported by the data you cite (one number).



My opinion of the piece was that it was dull and dragged on, and that getting all the way to the end would be tough for anyone but die-hard sailing fans.

The fact that it has under 10,000 views in four days is good evidence that I was EXACTLY right, and evidence that ACU, without major changes, will be a major flop, regardless of medium.

What's your conclusion?


Like a significant majority of the criticisms posted here, this is also premature. It's no different than forecasting new product sales at a products introduction.

New event, first starting gun has yet to be fired, new boats, new format, new coverage, new audience, etc.

As an example the OR capsize got about 30,000 to 40,000 views, depending on which one you watch. What level of interest and coverage do you think a fleet of 9 AC45's blasting around Cascais
will generate ? If you want to make projections why not start with an actual event ?

Come back after at least 5 or 10 episodes and review the facts if you want a meaningful conclusion.

#161 nav

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 06:50 PM

Or Petey!


No rednecks! Well ok, but just voice-over then.

I don't disagree that that spot/doco/show/whatever was not as good as it could have been. Shame, hope they do better - but the other programs you cite that they also make are, as you say, rather uninspiring. I guess they were hired for their 'sailing' background rather than their ground-breaking technique.
What was the result, if any, of the young videographers search? Not that they would be engaged in making that type of show anyway, though S & V could include any snappy shorter productions in their longer pieces. I was more than happy with the almost daily, one day delayed, short vidoes we were getting in Auckland. Like the one we just saw from GreenCom, good stuff. But for the wider public I guess they need more background - though 90 shows does excessive. Spread the money, try different approaches and see what appears to work.

#162 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 07:11 PM

What's your conclusion?


That the America's Cup Uncovered is not aimed at the SA audience. It is aimed at introducing the people WHO DON"T KNOW ABOUT AMERICA'S CUP to the America's Cup and why they should watch America's Cup 34 because it is different than the boring crap that SA fans usually eat up for who knows what reason.

That AC34 video is at 10,000 views in four days is pretty good work considering X40 videos don't seem to break 1,000. Interestingly the only "X40 Sailing" video that did break 1,000 was 15,000 and aimed at a French audience. Sunset+Vine, whom you dislike, produce both X40 and AC34 apparently.

#163 katie burns

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 08:25 PM

Or Petey!



Absofuckinglutely. I showed the Little AC recap to one of my friends and he loved it. Showed him the AC video, not so much.



#164 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 09:56 PM


What's your conclusion?


That the America's Cup Uncovered is not aimed at the SA audience. It is aimed at introducing the people WHO DON"T KNOW ABOUT AMERICA'S CUP to the America's Cup and why they should watch America's Cup 34 because it is different than the boring crap that SA fans usually eat up for who knows what reason.

That AC34 video is at 10,000 views in four days is pretty good work considering X40 videos don't seem to break 1,000. Interestingly the only "X40 Sailing" video that did break 1,000 was 15,000 and aimed at a French audience. Sunset+Vine, whom you dislike, produce both X40 and AC34 apparently.

I don't dislike S+V at all, and we have spent plenty of time with them to know that they are very professional and have good technique and gear. What they do not have is the kind of creativity or personnel necessary to achieve either viral success or mainstream enthusiasm.

As for your other points, I'm just not going to argue with someone who has such a poor grasp of the facts, and won't bother to do the research. Suffice to say that you are almost always wrong when you cite any 'facts' at all.

#165 KiwiJoker

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:21 PM


Or Petey!


No rednecks! Well ok, but just voice-over then.

I don't disagree that that spot/doco/show/whatever was not as good as it could have been. Shame, hope they do better - but the other programs you cite that they also make are, as you say, rather uninspiring. I guess they were hired for their 'sailing' background rather than their ground-breaking technique.
What was the result, if any, of the young videographers search? Not that they would be engaged in making that type of show anyway, though S & V could include any snappy shorter productions in their longer pieces. I was more than happy with the almost daily, one day delayed, short vidoes we were getting in Auckland. Like the one we just saw from GreenCom, good stuff. But for the wider public I guess they need more background - though 90 shows does excessive. Spread the money, try different approaches and see what appears to work.


Excellent reminder about the young videographers! Hopefully some are on board as interns for ACEA's 100-strong core TV production team.

Which gets me to my next point. We're really talking here about two separate entities, albeit with something of a symbiotic relationship.

The short videos out of Auckland came from the first test efforts of the core production team that will be handling the live broadcast, satellite feeds, VNRs, etc.

The weekly series is a separate exercise produced by S+V as sub-contractors, using stock footage from the core team and sweetened with their own interviews.

#166 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:26 PM


What's your conclusion?


That the America's Cup Uncovered is not aimed at the SA audience. It is aimed at introducing the people WHO DON"T KNOW ABOUT AMERICA'S CUP to the America's Cup


Yep. Episode 1 = Fail.

We'll see how episode 2 is. Fortunately, the producer reads SA.

#167 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:40 PM

I don't dislike S+V at all, and we have spent plenty of time with them to know that they are very professional and have good technique and gear. What they do not have is the kind of creativity or personnel necessary to achieve either viral success or mainstream enthusiasm.


It's their job to make a good video and tell the story they are hired to tell. The "America's Cup Uncovered" first video is very good and does that job.

As far as "viral success" that is a marketing issue not a video production issue. Viral success came to AC34 with the capsize video and would not be expected with the more formal race story video.

I have posted 1700 videos to YouTube on my own account and have a total of over 2 million total views.


For an average of 1100 views. Fairly modest especially considering they are flogged on an active blog with thousands of viewers. It makes the AC34 video's 10,000 views in four days look positively....ahem...viral.

AC should certainly be hiring web consultants to flog the AC video stuff online and be paying to advertise on websites and search engines. Nothing helps stuff go viral on the web more than a well paid, expert biological warfare unit and cash.

#168 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:54 PM

As far as "viral success" that is a marketing issue not a video production issue.


You can be forgiven for this basic lack of understanding, as a lot of the world's big, old guard advertising agencies think the same thing. Meanwhile, the big players in viral video production - mostly younger, boutique shops - know that content is what makes things go viral. Marketing has literally nothing to do with it. You see, companies simply are unable to send videos to millions of people while also convincing them to watch them; well, I guess they could, but they'd have to pay so much it wouldn't be commercially practicable. The reason viral videos work is that humans are sharing the videos with people that trust them - their friends - and they, in turn, spread them to others that trust them, and so on. It's the definition of viral.

It's extremely tough for broadcasters to understand exactly what the average person needs to get out of a video in order to send it along to their network with an enthusiastic recommendation. Unfortunately, producers spend their careers listening to their clients, who are usually corporate and usually pretty out of touch with what makes an average guy or gal tick, from a media consumption point of view. Not always, but near enough - and ACEA's corporate culture seems, so far, about as far from the 'common man' as you can get.

#169 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:10 PM

that content is what makes things go viral.


Which is why the AC34 capsize went viral and why the "Uncovered" videos would not be expected to go viral though a good advertising campaign and some viral marketing would be good to do.

The reason viral videos work is that humans are sharing the videos with people that trust them - their friends - and they, in turn, spread them to others that trust them, and so on. It's the definition of viral.


Can be one way, getting on the news on the main stream media is another. A fairly robust business of gaming the system in regard to viral numbers. A funny example in the news of Newt Gingrich getting caught doing it on Twitter hiring companies that fluff the "viral" web numbers. The system then feeds on itself, Twitter takes the gamed numbers and in turn raises the profile which gains more. Google has had to alter search algorithms for similar reasons.

#170 katie burns

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:13 PM

It is aimed at introducing the people WHO DON"T KNOW ABOUT AMERICA'S CUP to the America's Cup and why they should watch America's Cup 34


My non-sailing friends would not voluntarily watch that.

#171 GauchoGreg

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:14 PM

Just posted the show on a college football off-topic board. Will be interesting to see if I get any feedback.

#172 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:15 PM


that content is what makes things go viral.


Which is why the AC34 capsize went viral and why the "Uncovered" videos would not be expected to go viral though a good advertising campaign and some viral marketing would be good to do.

The reason viral videos work is that humans are sharing the videos with people that trust them - their friends - and they, in turn, spread them to others that trust them, and so on. It's the definition of viral.


Can be one way, getting on the news on the main stream media is another. A fairly robust business of gaming the system in regard to viral numbers. A funny example in the news of Newt Gingrich getting caught doing it on Twitter hiring companies that fluff the "viral" web numbers. The system then feeds on itself, Twitter takes the gamed numbers and in turn raises the profile which gains more. Google has had to alter search algorithms for similar reasons.


Still not gettin' it. Oh, well. I tried! (again)

#173 EaglesPDX

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:24 PM



that content is what makes things go viral.


Which is why the AC34 capsize went viral and why the "Uncovered" videos would not be expected to go viral though a good advertising campaign and some viral marketing would be good to do.

The reason viral videos work is that humans are sharing the videos with people that trust them - their friends - and they, in turn, spread them to others that trust them, and so on. It's the definition of viral.


Can be one way, getting on the news on the main stream media is another. A fairly robust business of gaming the system in regard to viral numbers. A funny example in the news of Newt Gingrich getting caught doing it on Twitter hiring companies that fluff the "viral" web numbers. The system then feeds on itself, Twitter takes the gamed numbers and in turn raises the profile which gains more. Google has had to alter search algorithms for similar reasons.


Still not gettin' it. Oh, well. I tried! (again)


You'll catch on sooner or later. Keep trying.

#174 Keith

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:56 PM


It is aimed at introducing the people WHO DON"T KNOW ABOUT AMERICA'S CUP to the America's Cup and why they should watch America's Cup 34


My non-sailing friends would not voluntarily watch that.


ex-fucking-actly..... B)

#175 EaglesPDX

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 12:03 AM



It is aimed at introducing the people WHO DON"T KNOW ABOUT AMERICA'S CUP to the America's Cup and why they should watch America's Cup 34


My non-sailing friends would not voluntarily watch that.

ex-fucking-actly.....


Always fascinating how our friend's reported views always confirm our views. It's why such anecdotal information is discounted as having no value.

#176 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 12:45 AM

It's why such anecdotal information is discounted as having no value.


And why just 10,000 views has plenty.

#177 EaglesPDX

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 12:59 AM


It's why such anecdotal information is discounted as having no value.


And why just 10,000 views has plenty.


That was a hard stat from you wasn't it? Not anecdotal.

Hard to know what to compare sailing videos.

Going, going, going...gone - AC45 capsize has 328,338. Likely pushing 1,000,000 as many different versions are posted with 30,000 views here, 50,000 there. That I'd call viral and would not expect those numbers from the "Uncovered video" where the 10,000 in four days looks very respectable. Overall the AC34 videos have done very well on You Tube.



#178 Stingray

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 02:19 AM

We could post a hundred AC or prior to that channel OR videos, in a row, every one of which blows away anything that Clean has ever produced.

But Clean, if you think you have the respect earned to just flame away at everything you see produced, if you think the 'we' on the FP is so much damn smarter than most everyone here who follows this subject far more closely than you do, then bully for you. Have at it, but you are fighting an uphill battle, this will overwhelm you too.

You made the comment the other day, I almost made it my sig just to hilite how stupid it was, that the site is based on nothing but criticism, and that that was the reason you were able to get GDs attention while he chowed breakfast. Guess what? Other people have, and will, do great interviews for far better reasons than that. You need to learn when you've been outclassed and way outproduced. The train is heading your way, hop on board or be left behind.

:)

#179 EaglesPDX

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 02:39 AM

We could post a hundred AC or prior to that channel OR videos, in a row, every one of which blows away anything that Clean has ever produced.


It was interesting that the AC34 capsize videos on YouTube pushing 1,000,000 overall certainly qualifies as going viral and by every angle, not something planned just something interesting. Cleans note that his average views per video was about 1,100 vs. the "AC Uncovered" getting 10,000 in four days. That seemed to contradict his argument, that seems a relative high rating especially compared to other non-viral sailing stuff. The "way better per Clean" Alinghi video had 937 views and that's after Clean flogged on the Sailing Anarchy front page, again the facts, 10,000 for AC Uncovered vs. 937 for Alinghi seemed to contradict Clean's claims.

#180 katie burns

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:02 AM




It is aimed at introducing the people WHO DON"T KNOW ABOUT AMERICA'S CUP to the America's Cup and why they should watch America's Cup 34


My non-sailing friends would not voluntarily watch that.

ex-fucking-actly.....


Always fascinating how our friend's reported views always confirm our views. It's why such anecdotal information is discounted as having no value.


Here's a video of a skunk with his head stuck in a jar of peanut butter. Looks like something you'd like.

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.c...ujbITKo8?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

#181 Stingray

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:12 AM

I like a lot of things about Clean, admire him for a lot too. I just think he is not the media guru, or the AC SME, or the 'hero to the people' that he's trying to play the role of.

This AC34 is going big time, Clean is not even a blip on the bigger radar screen.

I got to be about as close to AC33 as Clean did, it's where we and other cool people got to witness a truly amazing AC. But the chance of any of us being on the inside, being right on the line, for AC34, is vanishingly small for me and increasingly small for Clean too since his media access possibilities are already off the cliff in free fall.

Pierre at VS, among the more critical of everything AC34 until recently, is at least on site and getting us the good goods.

Clean, you posted an entire VS piece here, without even a link to the original. Why? Is this all about traffic loss fear for you? And do you really think that baseless rants about spec boat distances is somehow a righteous bullpit? Or is it just fabricated bullshit? How about the panning of S+V, did you ever post a better ideas attemp at 24 minutes of an AC intro, seg 1 for the 90 to follow, or are we supposed to just take your word that Petey in his bedroom can do better, as you even suggested? Lmao.

Hold your little fire, there are not even embryos burning yet. Things that actually are interesting will for sure happen down the line. Let's just enjoy the ride, almost whatever happens. You did notice how much cooler, faster, more modern, and sailed by hotter sailors, the AC45s ate than the aged x40s, right? Oh that's right, you haven't even seen one yet and can't judge.

Cascais is going to be one excellent start, with or without your FP 'wee' support. The real pro's have moved in, check it out -There is no doubt that this will be commendable on many levels.

#182 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:21 AM

We could post a hundred AC or prior to that channel OR videos, in a row, every one of which blows away anything that Clean has ever produced.


Oh c'mon now Stinger - I know you're fucking with me but If you really want me to do a comparison of the number of views we've received over the years, and the reviews some of our stuff has gotten from the very top levels, I just don't have time! But I will say that, production dollar for dollar, no one has ever come close to delivering the content we have. EVER. It's grassroots and it works, as attested by the fact that we have the respect of everyone from to Spittie to Sanderson, from Dalts to Desjoyeux to Devoti, from Melges to Michetti to Johnstone, hell, Dennis Conner called me a while back to ask what he needs to do to be a guest editor...


But Clean, if you think you have the respect earned to just flame away at everything you see produced, if you think the 'we' on the FP is so much damn smarter than most everyone here who follows this subject far more closely than you do, then bully for you. Have at it, but you are fighting an uphill battle, this will overwhelm you too.


Who the hell follows sailing productions more closely than I do? I mean, you probably check out more AC content than me, and frankly I adore the fact that you put it all out there for the AC fans, but overall? I spend about 5 hours every single day reviewing nothing but sailing media from all over the world. Every fucking day! Am I smarter? Hell no. But I feature videos from all over the planet, almost always because they are well done. When we've been led to have high expectations, like Ellison and Coutts have done, we critique their lack of delivering it, but that I 'flame away at everything I see produced? That's just straight-up dishonest, and I don't deserve it from you.


You made the comment the other day, I almost made it my sig just to hilite how stupid it was, that the site is based on nothing but criticism, and that that was the reason you were able to get GDs attention while he chowed breakfast. Guess what? Other people have, and will, do great interviews for far better reasons than that.

Show me where I made THAT comment, or admit you're making shit up and apologize. You don't need to misquote me to have a good argument. And show me an interview with GD that's as good as what I did with him. Show me one that's as good as the Conner interview I did a couple of years back. Please - I'll be happy to put them on the front page if you do. But if you can't, please don't belittle the shit ton of work I put into these things.

You need to learn when you've been outclassed and way outproduced. The train is heading your way, hop on board or be left behind.

No thanks. The train I'm on is the most successful sailing website in history, and the gap to second-best keeps growing. I'd welcome the competition - just keep me posted when you find it.

#183 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:25 AM

10,000 for AC Uncovered vs. 937 for Alinghi seemed to contradict Clean's claims.


Pssst...birdie..that's almost 3000 in a day...how many did ACU get per day? Oh yeah...

Attached Files



#184 EaglesPDX

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:36 AM


10,000 for AC Uncovered vs. 937 for Alinghi seemed to contradict Clean's claims.


Pssst...birdie..that's almost 3000 in a day...how many did ACU get per day? Oh yeah...


Alingihi 2854 from Aug 1, 2, 3.

"AC Uncovered" (per you) 10,000 in 1,2,3,4.

And the winner is...AC34...by a lot.

Interesting that Alighi only had 927 from 1st to 3rd and then suddenly jumped to 2,384 in a few hours. Almost like it was getting fluffed. "So tell me Mr. Clean, where were you from the hours of August 3, 9A and August 3, PM?"

It's more the 1,000,000 for AC34's capsize that I found interesting in talking of things going viral on the web. I wonder if that is the most ever for any sailing event on YouTube?

#185 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:47 AM



10,000 for AC Uncovered vs. 937 for Alinghi seemed to contradict Clean's claims.


Pssst...birdie..that's almost 3000 in a day...how many did ACU get per day? Oh yeah...


Alingihi 2854 from Aug 1, 2, 3.

"AC Uncovered" (per you) 10,000 in 1,2,3,4.

And the winner is...AC34...by a lot.

Interesting that Alighi only had 927 from 1st to 3rd and then suddenly jumped to 2,384 in a few hours. Almost like it was getting fluffed. "So tell me Mr. Clean, where were you from the hours of August 3, 9A and August 3, PM?"

It's more the 1,000,000 for AC34's capsize that I found interesting in talking of things going viral on the web. I wonder if that is the most ever for any sailing event on YouTube?


A million? Where? WHERE?

Alinghi had 204 before we ran it last night. Just the facts, ma'am.

#186 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:58 AM



10,000 for AC Uncovered vs. 937 for Alinghi seemed to contradict Clean's claims.


Pssst...birdie..that's almost 3000 in a day...how many did ACU get per day? Oh yeah...


Alingihi 2854 from Aug 1, 2, 3.

"AC Uncovered" (per you) 10,000 in 1,2,3,4.

And the winner is...AC34...by a lot.

Interesting that Alighi only had 927 from 1st to 3rd and then suddenly jumped to 2,384 in a few hours. Almost like it was getting fluffed. "So tell me Mr. Clean, where were you from the hours of August 3, 9A and August 3, PM?"

It's more the 1,000,000 for AC34's capsize that I found interesting in talking of things going viral on the web. I wonder if that is the most ever for any sailing event on YouTube?


BIRDBREATH

TRUE AC34's capsize

AND THE FINAL SINKING WILL BE VIRAL IN COURT AND WEB

ggyc and acea shell corp must be so proud --that

evilsin has TEARS IN HIS EYES --LITERALLY

#187 Stingray

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:06 AM

But I will say that, production dollar for dollar, no one has ever come close to delivering the content we have. EVER.

No doubt- you do do very, very well on a shoestring budget. But that is not any valid comparison to what we are about to see. As a hungry for the goods fan I don't care the costs at all; I care about the result. You standing on a pier with 3 friends next to an ESS RC boat simply docked next to you on a Boston pier, as the only coverage, is .. umm .. okay.. But c'mon, this is a ~completely~ different ballgame.

You made the comment the other day, I almost made it my sig just to hilite how stupid it was, that the site is based on nothing but criticism, and that that was the reason you were able to get GDs attention while he chowed breakfast. Guess what? Other people have, and will, do great interviews for far better reasons than that.


Show me where I made THAT comment, or admit you're making shit up and apologize. You don't need to misquote me to have a good argument.


"This site was founded on criticizing"

Shrug..... easy.

There ~are~ better ways to get inside the game. For sure criticism has its place when a decent case can be made but criticism is also very one dimensional. And yet that is all 'we' have seen fabricated so far. Yawn...

Keep in touch with GD and Luca D, Carrie, everybody else. They are superb contacts and you do have admirable forthrightness in getting them engaged. But it's wrong to think that simply shit stirring is what will maintain those relationships. Just ask great questions, like anyone else would do, only using your better intellect to be better at it. You do not need the crutches of 'edgy' baseless shit stirring, your coverage can stand on its own like with the ESS and the other events you mentioned too, that you openly get on board with and enjoy for what they are, constructively.

#188 SW Sailor

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:56 AM



I have nothing particularly against LE, I just don't think that EBs track record is that bad, and definitely not worse than LE (and yes, you can have your bad trip vibes over the infamous AC33 protocol) and I think that having EB participate in AC34 would add a lot of spice and unpredictability as we all know he can win, and will only participate if he sees a chance. If you ask all other challengers whether they would want him in, they would probably say "no thanks, life is difficult enough as it is!"


Ellison has been nothing but positive for the America's Cup, a guy pouring money and effort into it, playing by the rules and respecting the event.

Bertarelli clearly tried to hijack the event. Bob Fisher's various explanations of this are probably the best. It's just a world of difference. Prior to Bertarelli's hijack scheme he was doing fine but that is a huge blackmark for him vs none for Ellison.

Bertarelli back in AC would again threaten the event for all the same reasons.

Rehashing Bertarelli by posting Alinghi videos on an thread about AC34 videos is a waste of time and is done by folks with mindless antipathy to anything and everything Ellison does.

The reason I posted the Alinghi video on the front page today is because it was very good, stayed on mission, and used powerful shots, good sound bites, and powerful music to make its point.

You underestimate many in your audience as fools. The real reason you put the Alinghi video on the front page is to stir things up and generate hits, which failed.

They are now a has been team that is jealous of the AC limelight that they are not part of, just like the bullshit AC90 series that Rocky is so fond of that was stillborne as a concept from day one.

#189 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:00 AM

t the site is based on nothing but criticism

"This site was founded on criticizing"


Do you not see the difference with these two statements? It has been 11 years since SA was founded, and we've become far, far more than Scot ever envisioned when he created an outlet to publish the things the scared media whores wouldn't.

There ~are~ better ways to get inside the game.


We are already far inside the game. From Oracle to Oman, from Alinghi to Aleph...we're there. I don't know why you think we need to suck cock to get further inside than we do. We may be blunt, but we are always constructive, and the folks that matter read every single fucking word - even when the won't admit it. When you get to Cascais, try to find your way into the media tent first thing in the morning. Guess what you'll see on half the computers there. It ain't Scuttlebutt!

#190 EaglesPDX

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:00 AM


It's more the 1,000,000 for AC34's capsize that I found interesting in talking of things going viral on the web. I wonder if that is the most ever for any sailing event on YouTube?


A million? Where? WHERE?


This one was 328,000
This one was 214,000

Whole bunch more videos of the capsize, 70,000 here, 50,000 there, seemed to easily go over 1,000,000 counting all the views of the all the different postings of the AC capsize in SF. That was an example of a viral video on the web. The "did you see that" factor where people kept posting and reposting the video. Also interesting is that none of the X40 crashes got similar numbers. Highest I saw on cursory look was 20,000. Likely the difference of it being in San Francisco where it got a lot of main stream media attention and it being the America's Cup.

Alinghi had 204 before we ran it last night.


So 204 in two days on its own and then 2,800 once it got flogged by Sailing Anarchy.

"AC Uncovered" was 10,000 in four days you said so clearly the AC34 beat Alinghi by a large margin and that after at front page promo by SA for Alinghi. It does show how active promotions, either open or stealth, can push the YouTube numbers. I'm sure that kind of manipulation was behind YouTube's recent changes that drastically reduced the views.

#191 SW Sailor

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:11 AM


t the site is based on nothing but criticism

"This site was founded on criticizing"


Do you not see the difference with these two statements? It has been 11 years since SA was founded, and we've become far, far more than Scot ever envisioned when he created an outlet to publish the things the scared media whores wouldn't.

There ~are~ better ways to get inside the game.


We are already far inside the game. From Oracle to Oman, from Alinghi to Aleph...we're there. I don't know why you think we need to suck cock to get further inside than we do. We may be blunt, but we are always constructive, and the folks that matter read every single fucking word - even when the won't admit it. When you get to Cascais, try to find your way into the media tent first thing in the morning. Guess what you'll see on half the computers there. It ain't Scuttlebutt!


WTF are you talking about ? You are so full of shit it's not funny.

Far inside the game with Oracle and Alinghi ? You must be smoking some good dope if you seriously believe what you post. You just said OR wouldn't give you the time of day in an interview, but maybe you have a secret love affair with EB that you haven't yet shared. Sure thing, we believe you. You call that "far inside the game" when by your own admission you're on the outside ?

And you are so quick to call others out about bullshit ?

#192 SW Sailor

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:20 AM


But I will say that, production dollar for dollar, no one has ever come close to delivering the content we have. EVER.

No doubt- you do do very, very well on a shoestring budget. But that is not any valid comparison to what we are about to see. As a hungry for the goods fan I don't care the costs at all; I care about the result. You standing on a pier with 3 friends next to an ESS RC boat simply docked next to you on a Boston pier, as the only coverage, is .. umm .. okay.. But c'mon, this is a ~completely~ different ballgame.

You made the comment the other day, I almost made it my sig just to hilite how stupid it was, that the site is based on nothing but criticism, and that that was the reason you were able to get GDs attention while he chowed breakfast. Guess what? Other people have, and will, do great interviews for far better reasons than that.


Show me where I made THAT comment, or admit you're making shit up and apologize. You don't need to misquote me to have a good argument.


"This site was founded on criticizing"

Shrug..... easy.

I guess it's pretty clear where he made THAT comment.

Seems like Clean is losing it over the video production with this event, can't stand the threat of real competition to OTWA.

Like you said, the fans look at the end result, not the cost per frame to produce. Pretty simple from a fans perspective.

Setting aside the technical difficulties in the Boston ESS series, I liked the coverage, but we're talking apples and fruitcakes at this level, and what I find most interesting is how this discussion has heated up JUST BEFORE Cascais. Sounds like someone has their panites in a bunch before the real deal goes live.

Personally I don't care if ACEA has a $7B budget and SA has a $1300.00 budget, it's the end result I will look at as a fan. Some may not consider that fair, but that's reality.

#193 dogwatch

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:27 AM

The real pro's have moved in, check it out


Yes they have and the communication we are getting, "AC Uncovered" included, is diligently following the script that Worth et al have laid down. That's why it's all so predictable, dull and uninformative. I have in the past found a lot of Clean's work about as interesting as watching other people's holiday videos. However, credit where it is due, the recent Dalton and Devoti interviews added something real to our understanding of what's going on. In the case of OR, one control freak has hired another all down the management train but control freakery does not make for engaging communications. I'm therefore convinced that if you want any real information, look anywhere except what the pros are going to be permitted to produce.

#194 EaglesPDX

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:39 AM

control freakery does not make for engaging communications


Rupert Murdoch the most control freakery guy in communications would disagree.

Clean and SA do fine. They run a fun forum. As far as most successful website in sailing history, I think the Volvo 96 website might have better stats but for different reasons. And there were other sailing discussion forums back in the day of dial up that probably did as well because there were so few and it concentrated the users.

But give the Anarchist his due, you compete in the times you are in and I'd believe Clean's stats that Sailing Anarchy is the biggest online sailing forum but that's a bit different and not quite relevant to the AC34 website which is based on a specific event which is a subset of all the topics on SA. Web apps and oranges.

The "AC Uncovered" video is excellent and AC34 is doing well on web exposure as the 1M views of the SF Capsize and the 10,000 views of the "Uncovered" video demonstrate. If you add up all the AC34 video content out there, I'd say they are in the millions on views, pretty good work in a short time frame for a single event in an obscure sport.

#195 krispy kreme

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:47 AM



10,000 for AC Uncovered vs. 937 for Alinghi seemed to contradict Clean's claims.


Pssst...birdie..that's almost 3000 in a day...how many did ACU get per day? Oh yeah...


Alingihi 2854 from Aug 1, 2, 3.

"AC Uncovered" (per you) 10,000 in 1,2,3,4.

And the winner is...AC34...by a lot.

Interesting that Alighi only had 927 from 1st to 3rd and then suddenly jumped to 2,384 in a few hours. Almost like it was getting fluffed. "So tell me Mr. Clean, where were you from the hours of August 3, 9A and August 3, PM?"

It's more the 1,000,000 for AC34's capsize that I found interesting in talking of things going viral on the web. I wonder if that is the most ever for any sailing event on YouTube?

Jeepus you are slow. really, really. slow.




#196 SW Sailor

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:57 AM



Alinghi had 204 before we ran it last night.


So 204 in two days on its own and then 2,800 once it got flogged by Sailing Anarchy.

"AC Uncovered" was 10,000 in four days you said so clearly the AC34 beat Alinghi by a large margin and that after at front page promo by SA for Alinghi. It does show how active promotions, either open or stealth, can push the YouTube numbers. I'm sure that kind of manipulation was behind YouTube's recent changes that drastically reduced the views.


Wow, a stunning total of 204 views. How amazing, and you characterize it as being such a great video. Total fail by any standard. If is was so great as you said, how come it only had 204 views ? That is totally lame for a team that won the cup once and defended once. A full on embarassment by EB and Alinghi.

I could get that many views posting a video of my dog taking a shit in the back yard.

And 2800 views after putting it on the front page ? That confirms how bad a failure it is, yet you claim it's a spectacular video. That's a farce for both Alinghi and SA.

I think you can stop simultaneously bragging and criticizing at this point and let ACEA do their thing. You're making yourself look pretty stupid at this point.

Maybe you should let it go and enjoy the ride for a change.

#197 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:13 PM

Wow, a stunning total of 204 views. How amazing, and you characterize it as being such a great video. Total fail by any standard.


ummm....

Attached Files



#198 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:38 PM

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Hilarious.This conversation between SW and Eagles is my best laugh of the day.:lol:

#199 SW Sailor

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 06:50 PM


Wow, a stunning total of 204 views. How amazing, and you characterize it as being such a great video. Total fail by any standard.


ummm....


ummm.... before you pimped it on the FP the count was a whopping 204 views, what does that number tell you ?

Your comment was on the quality of the video, and a whopping 204 views does not support your point, neither does pimping it.

Pimped across a few more sites it's reasonable to assume it would get more views, so what ?

#200 Rennmaus

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:10 PM

Quality has no relation to how many people consume something. The sales success of fast food chains tell that story.

The Alinghi vid certainly had style.




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