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trimarans under 22 feet in USA


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#1 zerothehero

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 08:19 PM

I have been trying to find out what tris are out there in the small end of the scale. As some of you remember I have the crazy idea of sailing in the Everglades Challenge, 300 miles in open boats along the coast of FL. Originally I was considering doing the race on my Hobie Wave but a few things have me rethinking that idea. The Wave I have is older, and several things are starting to look a bit tired. It needs a new tramp and I keep pouring over mods in my head and it is all adding up to a lot of $ with not such a great boat to be dumping it into. Mean while I have been trying to find info on what other cats or tris there are that could do the race. Weta is a great boat but I would hate to get one and make it class illegal with mods. Windriders don't really appeal to me, neither do the Hobie AI and TI. Any suggestions?

#2 puffyjman

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:00 PM

Take a look at these

A friend of mine built the 20'. Looks pretty cool.

#3 eric e

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Posted 29 July 2011 - 11:23 PM

http://www.seaworthy...seaclipper.html

#4 zerothehero

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:16 AM

Puffy, the link didn't work. Eric, looks good but I was really hoping there was something out there in production. I have this mental block about building something myself. Afraid it either wouldn't be up to the task or would slow/heavy/poorly executed.

#5 munt

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:38 AM

just go buy a damn multi 23 would you man!

#6 tikipete

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:46 AM

Puffy, the link didn't work. Eric, looks good but I was really hoping there was something out there in production. I have this mental block about building something myself. Afraid it either wouldn't be up to the task or would slow/heavy/poorly executed.


Dig around in the Seaclipper links. Some guy is building two and wants to sell one.

I might be interested in something like a Tremolino but using my F16 hulls and rig.

#7 Amati

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:47 AM

 
This is the best I can do with my iPad, because, well, Dawg things they're more trouble than they're worth...

There is a web address at the bottom of the post that will get you picks etc. Kinda cool looking. If that doesn't work try Google.


NINJA SPIDER


NINJA SPIDER is a very modern designed trimaran. With its chines on the hulls and relatively wide beams has the Ninja Spider similarity with a smaller version of the 2010 Americas Cup winner BMW Oracle. The big advantage of the Ninja SPIDER compared to the Ninja PRO is the well balanced stability given with the second outrigger hull. Sailed singlehanded the Ninja SPIDER is a very fast sports multihull. Sailed with 2 persons or with a few kids it is the perfect fun boat for the whole family.  

The Ninja SPIDER fits like the Ninja PRO in the practical box in the same dimensions of 4.7x0.80x0.85m. The trimaran can get upgraded to a proa (Upgrade: Proa beams und trampolines necessary) 

Ninja SPIDER is available equipped as:

NINJA SPIDER resort
Trimaran ready to sail, Dacron sails with jib on roller furler
extra protected bow sections
sail surface 11.4m2
NINJA SPIDER plus
Trimaran ready to sail, North Sail sails
with Carbon bow sprit and screecher
sail surface 21.4m2
NINJA SPIDER R
Trimaran ready to sail, North Sails sails
with Carbon bow sprit and screecher
2 color gel coat, Ronstan racing hardware
extra Carbon reinforcing in beams
telescopic tiller arm extention
sail surface 21.4m2

Ninja BOX


 

more pics here:

NINJA gallery

n.schein@smg-multihull.com | Unit 6, Baltimore Park, 82-84 Killarney Avenue / Gardens, 7441, +27 76 570 22 22

#8 munt

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:54 AM

ifn you woulda been with me couple hours ago on my multi 23 doing solid teens surfing into ventura harbour you would heed my words... just buy the damn multi 23 man!

#9 zerothehero

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 01:19 AM

what does a multi 23 weigh? can you drop the mast while on the water?
big concern with the Ninja Spider is stowage space. While it is a really cool boat it looks more exposed and cramped than a Wave. But much faster.

#10 zerothehero

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 01:38 AM

just looked, multi 23 is sweet looking but isn't the right boat for what I looking for. Something between that and the Spider, size/volume wise

#11 Fat Point Jack

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:13 AM

How about Chris White's Discovery 20. It maybe on the heavy side.

http://smalltrimarans.com/blog/?p=214

#12 zerothehero

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:45 AM

Fat point, nice boat, could do the job easy but it is heavy. One of the cool things about this race is you can sail pretty much whatever you like but there are "filters" designed into the race. The first filter is the start itself. All boats start from above the high tide line and the crew have to get it to the water, alone, no outside help. Whatever you use to help be it rollers, a dolly, marine railway, etc, has to come with you on the entire race. Also most boats are fully loaded before launching so there is that weight as well. Creates a unique problem. A boat that is light enough to get down the beach but seaworthy to sail 300 miles in a mixture of open gulf and sheltered bays. The Hobie AI and TI are probably as close to perfect as you can get in an inexpensive production boat but they really don't appeal to me. Originally I was really sold on the Wave but I think it would really struggle to make good progress if it was like this last race, strong winds right on the nose. The Wave doesn't go to windward as well as I had remembered. I was thinking small tri, like a Weta because I think they would go to weather better with more volume for gear.

#13 tacksea

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:46 AM

2 years ago I had a lot of fun on a Virus21,very"dry"tri. Sorry can't put pick from my iPad . Virus boats.com

#14 zerothehero

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 11:47 AM

another option might be to make a center hull and use the wave as outer hulls, just thinking out loud.

#15 Crump's Brother

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:35 PM

Check out the W17 here. I'm thinkin it'd be a pretty good E.C. boat, raid, tripper type. You're going to have to build yoself though. I read somewhere on the site they where offerin kits in the US.

KB

#16 Crump's Brother

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 12:39 PM

Posted Image

W17 Nice!

#17 munt

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 03:41 PM

w17 looks like a very fun little feller, but if your goal is a race where you have to self-propel and sail I bet a simple old prindle 18 or similiar would do the trick pretty damn good. hard to see the advantage of a tri under those conditions...

#18 zerothehero

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 07:54 PM

crumps, that looks sweet, I will look into that more

Munt as per the prindle, I think that will have many of the same problems as the Wave. Faster, but not great gear stowage. But I will keep it in mind.

#19 Crump's Brother

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Posted 30 July 2011 - 10:11 PM

Keep us posted VT on what you end up with as I'm interested in the same type of boat for the EC and TX 200 and other events.

KB

#20 samc99us

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 12:01 AM

I'm planning on using my recently acquired Hobie 18 for this type of racing, starting with the NCC100. It needs work (new rigging, new mast base, preferably a spinnaker kit) to be prepared for the race.

Pros:
1) older H18's like mine (1980) were built like tanks so can take the abuse
2) They can be pushed into the water relatively easily from above high tide line
3) They are pretty dang quick on any point of sail
4) Roller furling jib as standard

Cons:
1) Heavy boats so need some effort moving them around
2) Gear is exposed on trampoline
3) Older boats prone to failure due to fatigue
4) Daggerboards can break if you hit the bottom
5) Powered up rig that can takes experienced sailors to prevent capsizing
6) Stepping the mast can be problematic

I think there are two approaches to doing this sort of race:
1) Use a moderately fast boat and prepare to stop
2) Race a really fast boat and beast it non-stop (Livingston on the Tornado, Smyth on the Scissor Tri).

Building a boat is definitely in the spirit of the event, the W17 looks to be a solid choice and would be drier than most beach catamarans. IMO, it needs a spinnaker. Any boat doing these types of races need to be able to make good VMG downwind, and a good asym makes that an easy, controllable task. The Hobie Wave, while a decent single hander, is pretty slow upwind (compared with say a H16 or H18) and not quick downwind, plus bulky to move around on the beach. Personally, I would much rather have a second person with me on the boat for these races.

#21 DaveK

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 01:43 PM

Check out the W17 here. I'm thinkin it'd be a pretty good E.C. boat, raid, tripper type. You're going to have to build yoself though. I read somewhere on the site they where offerin kits in the US.

KB


Needs a bow sprit!

#22 bones M

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 02:34 PM


Check out the W17 here. I'm thinkin it'd be a pretty good E.C. boat, raid, tripper type. You're going to have to build yoself though. I read somewhere on the site they where offerin kits in the US.

KB


Needs a bow sprit!


Doesn't the W17 have a bow sprit? What's that little prod poking off the bow? does it run a spin or a genoa off the front? I've been oogling this tri for a while myself. Modern lines (as much as possible with ply), curved arms, a good size rig. The W17 is fairly new so there is limited video out there. I want to see a chase boat following this thing in big air. I want to see it flip. What does it do when it's really powered up? I think it would smoke the Seaclipper...

#23 samc99us

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:00 PM

Doing some digging on sailor reports for the W17 and it might not be a good fit for the Everglades Challenge etc. The biggest issue is weight, they said 4 people could not bring the boat up out of the water unassisted: http://www.smalltrid...s-comments.html

Of course any boat in 500+lb range might have similar problems, building lighter is a solution in the W17 case but probably expensive (go with carbon tubes over plywood crossbeams for starters) and then you have a boat that doesn't conform to class rules.

#24 DaveK

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 03:52 PM

I see now that it does have a prod. The homepage pic didn't show that. The thing is that this boat looks so chunky and heavy. I wish there was just a larger version of the weta. That was my original intent when I started looking at tri's a year ago. But I ended up with a weta and I know they have no plans now to make a larger version. I don't know why you, vtfish, would make it unclass leagal to sail in EC.... it's fine just as is. I wanna do ruff riders this year. It's a short version, 120 mile, 2 day race up intercoastal. But the thing is I wanna do it with my son and therefore the 2 of on the boat limits us from bringing any supplies and there is no shore crew access. So boging down a weta with weight can be an issue.


Attached File  w17red01.jpg   82.83K   26 downloads

#25 samc99us

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:23 PM

Agreed with the chunky and heavy statement. If the whole thing was foam/carbon or foam/fiberglass construction, I think it would be a fantastic platform for these races. As is its too bulky to move up and down the beach without wheels or 4+ people.

#26 Crump's Brother

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 04:46 PM

I think the weta could be modded for these types of events. Start with a furling jib, reef points in the main (new sails), spray skirts, some ultralight camping gear and a couple of good drysacks should do the trick. Oh and forget that cooler full of beer and steaks.

I thought a couple of wetas tried the EC this year? Anyone know how they did?

KB

#27 MisterMoon

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 05:56 PM

Two Wetas attempted the EC both this year and last year. Neither has made it to the finish yet. The big change both guys made between last year and this year was to fit a larger Bomar type hatch in place of the screw out inspection port on the center hull to make gear storage easier. One of the boats fitted oar locks and about 6' oars under the tramps. Other than that, the boats were stock.

The boats appear to be a pretty good kit for the EC, but it would not be for me. I'd rather not be so exposed for such a long race. For 2011, one of the Wetas dropped out early on the first day I think due to health issue with the skipper. The second one made it almost to CP3 in Flamingo, but was capsized in a violent thunderstorm squall line. The boat turtled and it resulted in a broken mast.

You missed your chance earlier this year when Chief's (Steve Issac) old Tridarka Raider trimaran (designed by Matt Layden) was for sale. The asking price was less than $5,000 which was a smoking deal on a pretty fast and well proven boat.

#28 DaveK

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:15 PM

Well... obviously, Sizzors is a bad ass tri!! :D

#29 DaveK

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 06:17 PM

I think the weta could be modded for these types of events. Start with a furling jib, reef points in the main (new sails), spray skirts, some ultralight camping gear and a couple of good drysacks should do the trick. Oh and forget that cooler full of beer and steaks.

I thought a couple of wetas tried the EC this year? Anyone know how they did?

KB



Who's KB? llo.

Really John.... will you be my shore crew and bribe the people on kings ranch to open their gates since I can't carry a cooler??

#30 Tom Ray

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:27 PM

No Weta has made it through the Everglades Challenge, but a few Hobie Adventure Islands have. I own an AI, and would not consider using it for the race, but some are crazier than I am.

Someone asked about a Multi 23... not foldable and too wide for the Everglades Challenge.

An interesting entrant in this last one was Roger Mann in his Puddlecat Adventure. He did not complete the race, but seems to have the right level of off the beaten path crazy.

http://www.youtube.com/rogermannorg

#31 Crump's Brother

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 08:32 PM


I think the weta could be modded for these types of events. Start with a furling jib, reef points in the main (new sails), spray skirts, some ultralight camping gear and a couple of good drysacks should do the trick. Oh and forget that cooler full of beer and steaks.

I thought a couple of wetas tried the EC this year? Anyone know how they did?

KB



Who's KB? llo.

Really John.... will you be my shore crew and bribe the people on kings ranch to open their gates since I can't carry a cooler??


I went thru there a few years ago in the Tx200. About as desolate as one can get. Seem to remember mostly a salt flat on the KR side in the land cut, prolly not much access.

When I sailed that course it was mostly downwind and had trouble keeping the pointy end of the Raider from swapping directions with the fat end due to the short steep bay chop. Once to the land cut, well, hang on! Keep your water, gear, and everything else at the back of the bus!

Seems the Ruff Rider conflicts with the AYC centerboard reg. You aint thinkin of missin out??

KB

#32 DaveK

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Posted 31 July 2011 - 11:22 PM

You sailed the Raider thru there?? Wow. It is a very fast downwind boat.

I may just punt the ruff rider.

#33 dstgean

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 10:42 PM

Was that you with the rudder issues? I was on the H18 that finished that year & remember you catching up with us off the wind, stopping to fix the rudder, catching up, etc. The next year we did it in two Tamanu outrigger hulls + the hobie gear from the 18. Still fooling with that boat right now...

Dan

#34 kgatesman

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Posted 03 August 2011 - 11:24 PM

Munt as per the prindle, I think that will have many of the same problems as the Wave. Faster, but not great gear stowage. But I will keep it in mind.



Gratuitous Prindle Plug:

The 18 is built like a rock and could comfortably carry two large men, and and a weeks backpacking type gear, easy. The tramp is huge. The dolphinstriker is robust. The ports can beconfigure to carry at least a case of beer.

Raising the mainsail is a pain because you have to hang the sail on the tang 24 feet above your head. It's like playing cornhole on acid with that crazy Roy G. Biv sail flapping in my face. I would love a cable/rope halyard in thefuture to fix this issue.

Also a furling jib would be way better than the S hook approach.

I am getting lazy here, but there are faster ways to rig a boat today, than appears to have been commonly available when extruded aluminum was still cool.

#35 samc99us

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 02:11 AM

Hobie 18 fixes the furling jib problem, has better parts availability and doesn't have those shitty Prindle rudders, plus it has all of the nice things the P-18 has (big tramp, lots of storage space etc.). I do think the P18 would be a drier ride as it rides a bit higher than the H18. I am also concerned that neither H18 entered into the Everglades Challenge finished the race, did there boats fall apart before the crew?

As far as halyard hook, every boat since the H18/P18 has used the same dang setup, or close to it. Hook on the back of mast head that the ring clips into. The sheet tension on most of these boats is on the order of 500-1000lbs (enough to elongate the stainless ring, I've done it), which is a damn high load for a non-wire halyard to take. Nowadays a good spectra halyard could probably handle it but the hook is tried-and-true. It does cause a big issue when it comes to reefing the mainsail, which is a problem I'm still working out.

-Sam

p.s, if someone knows how to make those damn P16/18 rudders work I'll take any and all advice, I have 2 complete sets of rudder hardware, replaced bolts/springs/locking pins and neither set will stay down if the wind is blowing more than 10 kts.

#36 Foghorn77

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 02:40 AM

Hobie 18 fixes the furling jib problem, has better parts availability and doesn't have those shitty Prindle rudders, plus it has all of the nice things the P-18 has (big tramp, lots of storage space etc.). I do think the P18 would be a drier ride as it rides a bit higher than the H18. I am also concerned that neither H18 entered into the Everglades Challenge finished the race, did there boats fall apart before the crew?

As far as halyard hook, every boat since the H18/P18 has used the same dang setup, or close to it. Hook on the back of mast head that the ring clips into. The sheet tension on most of these boats is on the order of 500-1000lbs (enough to elongate the stainless ring, I've done it), which is a damn high load for a non-wire halyard to take. Nowadays a good spectra halyard could probably handle it but the hook is tried-and-true. It does cause a big issue when it comes to reefing the mainsail, which is a problem I'm still working out.

-Sam

p.s, if someone knows how to make those damn P16/18 rudders work I'll take any and all advice, I have 2 complete sets of rudder hardware, replaced bolts/springs/locking pins and neither set will stay down if the wind is blowing more than 10 kts.


Most likely the hole that carries the hook in the rudder edge has elongated to let the hook sit at an angle(drop down) that allows it to release under load. I've had numerous sets on P-16s and P-19s that worked great.As a matter of fact I think they smoke the Hobie cam/have to run aground program.

#37 samc99us

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:00 AM

Thanks Todd, I'll look at those. We figured they must have worked well when brand new at least, just need to get them back to that condition.

#38 The Advocate

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:23 AM

Not sure if it is the US, but I like this one.

http://www.lunadades...h-trimaran.html

#39 mojonixon

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 01:01 PM

What about a Sea Pearl 21 Trimaran?

http://www.marine-co...m/trimaran.html

#40 munt

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:34 PM

1 prindle 18 add used spin on windsurfer mast prod
2 pvc beach roller/oars
1 case beer
1 jar peanut butter
1 case 5 hour energy drink
total cost? 1-1.5k
probability of doing well as compared to all the trimaran options? pretty damn good.

a prindle 18 will carry your house and on a reach will sail boat for boat with just about any older 18 footer. no boards to worry about, easy enough to row. lighter and waaaaaaay cheaper than any comparably sized tri. pretty damned seaworthy. add spectra halyard and an emergency-only reef point with mast-base-cleat and h-18 roller furler on the jib. couple good gps and the usual kit and your ready for battle.
or
if you could find a nice old hobie 18 with wings or hobie 21 sport cruiser... once you get used to those wings your back will love you long time. the sport cruiser can carry your whole damn neighborhood and is a brick shithouse too.

#41 DaveK

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 03:59 PM

1 prindle 18 add used spin on windsurfer mast prod
2 pvc beach roller/oars
1 case beer
1 jar peanut butter
1 case 5 hour energy drink
total cost? 1-1.5k
probability of doing well as compared to all the trimaran options? pretty damn good.

a prindle 18 will carry your house and on a reach will sail boat for boat with just about any older 18 footer. no boards to worry about, easy enough to row. lighter and waaaaaaay cheaper than any comparably sized tri. pretty damned seaworthy. add spectra halyard and an emergency-only reef point with mast-base-cleat and h-18 roller furler on the jib. couple good gps and the usual kit and your ready for battle.
or
if you could find a nice old hobie 18 with wings or hobie 21 sport cruiser... once you get used to those wings your back will love you long time. the sport cruiser can carry your whole damn neighborhood and is a brick shithouse too.



That's funny!! :D

There are some old prindles in our dry dock storage and a hobie 18 with wings..... I should see what's up with those.

#42 Crump's Brother

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:27 PM

Was that you with the rudder issues? I was on the H18 that finished that year & remember you catching up with us off the wind, stopping to fix the rudder, catching up, etc. The next year we did it in two Tamanu outrigger hulls + the hobie gear from the 18. Still fooling with that boat right now...

Dan


Yea, you were the guys from Chicago right?
The raider kept breaking gudgeons and pintles, and has since been re-engineered.

KB

#43 Crump's Brother

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 04:40 PM


1 prindle 18 add used spin on windsurfer mast prod
2 pvc beach roller/oars
1 case beer
1 jar peanut butter
1 case 5 hour energy drink
total cost? 1-1.5k
probability of doing well as compared to all the trimaran options? pretty damn good.

a prindle 18 will carry your house and on a reach will sail boat for boat with just about any older 18 footer. no boards to worry about, easy enough to row. lighter and waaaaaaay cheaper than any comparably sized tri. pretty damned seaworthy. add spectra halyard and an emergency-only reef point with mast-base-cleat and h-18 roller furler on the jib. couple good gps and the usual kit and your ready for battle.
or
if you could find a nice old hobie 18 with wings or hobie 21 sport cruiser... once you get used to those wings your back will love you long time. the sport cruiser can carry your whole damn neighborhood and is a brick shithouse too.



That's funny!! :D

There are some old prindles in our dry dock storage and a hobie 18 with wings..... I should see what's up with those.


Sounds like you gotta plan munt. A manly west coaster such as youself shouldn't have no problems with that tropical florida water!!

I know how you feel about texas, but you oughta get out here and do that tx200 or the ruff rider next summer.

KB

#44 dstgean

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 05:14 PM

The issue with the 18 is it's so low and wet. Fine for a daysail and a round the bouys race, but mot too fun for 5+ hours on the boat. Getting the wings would be a big help there. Better hatch options would also help as trying to get gear into a 5" port isn't fun. Drybags on the tramp are better. Having an off the wind sail is a must for an even like the T200. The only time I got outran was by Graham Byrnes on his EC22 with a big ol spin. Not too many performance boats in that event though. Seems like there a divide between guys who like going 3-4 knots and camp aboard and guys that want to race hard like the Tornado or Randy's tri in the EC last year. I'm somwhere in the middle. Speed is fun--going for 48 hours without sleep--not so much.

Dan

#45 munt

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 07:28 PM

that tropical water is sooooo nice and sailing in it is certainly tasty too, but to actually expend effort such as pushing a boat around or rowing or not taking prolonged naps or not having someone to feed and bathe me... surely you jest, tex. so uncivilized! perhaps if i had a macho fellow such as yerself to act as my "boat caddy" and "manservant" i could possibly maintain conciousness long enough to steer the vessel at the critical moments and, of course, take the podium at the awards ceremony?

#46 kgatesman

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Posted 04 August 2011 - 09:58 PM

My Prindle rudders rock. But I suppose I have the other problem, not only do they not kick up, you can't pull on the uphaul enough to unlock them. i have to get in the water and pull them up by the rudder tip, or or let the beach do the job. I would replace them with a modern cat's set up, if i had my cable halyard and furling jib resolved first. I haven't owned other cats, I love my boat, and will never let her go, but she is a lot of work to put together and take apart in stock trim.

There is a reputation that Prindle parts are hard to find. You can buy anything brand new from Murray's or Salty Dog. I don't know where they get the stuff, but it appears to be newly manufactured. I think Nacra owns the rights to Prindle, maybe they make parts?

There is a guy at the sailng club that has a blue, foiling tri. I have not seen it in action. Not sure what it is called, but that thing is sick.

#47 samc99us

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Posted 08 August 2011 - 05:10 PM

New Prindle parts are easy to find, from what I can tell there are more used parts for the H18's out there and the boats are a little tougher than the equivalent Prindles, depending on age of the boats in question of course.

Might the blue foiling tri be this: http://www.windrider...rider_rave.aspx ? Foiling is great and all but I wouldn't want to do an adventure race with hydrofoils that could explode on impact with the bottom.

Hobie 18 is a wet boat, but so is the N20 and I've spent 10+ hours double trapped upwind in the open ocean on that boat, so am comfortable doing the same on the H18 or similar. Being a recent college grad, I'm also comfortable with some no sleep 24 hour endurance runs. A downwind sail is a necessity, I agree, but sourcing the parts at a reasonable price is rather tough.

#48 zerothehero

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 04:23 AM

all excellent posts. Sorry I have been absent, had a bit on my mind. Sat by Mom's bedside for over a week and this past Saturday she passed away. Ovarian Cancer. Sucks. All this time this crazy idea was a way to remove myself from what was going on around me everyday. I still want to do it, I think I need to do it. I am fairly certain I have the skills but I am also certain there is a lot to learn. As per my current boat, the Wave. I think it could do it but I was looking for more. More speed, more windward capabilities, more volume in the bows, more protection, etc. But it is in keeping with what I see doing the race. The Hobie AI and TI are probably the best production boats available but they don't appeal to me. I want to be to windward, proper sailing position, peeling off the miles. The hatch added to the Weta's would make them class illegal? That's what I think. What is really needed is a sea kind boat, that is light and quick, not too exposed, that can carry a load. Being in VT I am thinking solo for a few reasons. I love sailing alone, partners are hard to find in VT, and all the mental prep I have done is for solo. It is my opinion that the boat doesn't have to be a rocket, just quick and able. 300 miles is a long way and I would be looking to finish, not win.

#49 GybeSet®

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 06:57 AM

sorry VT, thats truly bad news

After the phenomenal result in the nukin' Double Damned race (see thread in SBA) there is simply no doubt that a Weta has no trimaran rival here ( other than a unattainable bespoke one-off maybe)

It raced there with two adults proving it has some capacity for extra gear without killing the performance

I'd be entering one now before the whole EC fleet twigs and you'll be just one of many, I reckon any larger heavier types will be too hard to manhandle, row and deal with shallows etc

#50 samc99us

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 02:48 PM

The Weta may be a decent platform but they are dang expensive for what they are. Sure they are half the price of a modern racing beach catamaran but $12.5K for a 14' boat is pricey! You could buy a used F18, spend a little bit of cash getting it in tip-top shape and be ready to rock and roll Livingston style for that kind of money! Or you could buy an older beach catamaran, fix it up and be out less than 1/4th the price of a Weta. Maybe something like a Nacra 5.2 if you are soloing?

#51 richardstephens

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Posted 09 August 2011 - 03:46 PM

Sure there are other boats that can give more knots per $, but there is more to it that that. The Weta is compact to store, quick to rig, and easy to transport. It is very easy and forgiving to sail, and does not require a lot of strength or athleticism. It is easy to right after a capsize. It has a spinnaker and is fun to sail in all wind conditions. I don't think you can really compare it fo any beach cat.

#52 zerothehero

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Posted 10 August 2011 - 02:41 AM

Just wanted to comment on a few points. First off speed isn't everything in this race, finishing is my goal not winning. 60 percent of starters don't make it for lots of reasons. This race is a real challenge. I thought of trying to buy a cat that is faster/bigger but there are several reasons I am not really keen on the idea. For one thing if the boat picked were designed for 2 people and most likely with traps to boot it would be a handful alone. Even with reefs or "dumbed down" it would still be less than ideal. If I re-rigged to slow it down, make it more manageable, then there would need to be a reason to pick that hull design, ie. more volume in the bows or great windward ability. Even then it would be greatly compromised in performance as it would be being used out of spec. Plus all cats have a common strike against them, storage. That's why the tri idea took hold, more storage. Course keeping everything up in the bow on any boat will not be ideal except in really light air (hoping for good wind). One idea I had was to make it so that the gear was in dry bags that I could move from side to side/port starboard. This would hold for any boat, tri or cat. The challenge becomes designing the system to do just that. I don't know much about attaching to mesh tramps. Of course tris have a strike against them too, ability to row in light conditions. With the beam and lift of the hulls it would be hard to row efficiently. Back to the original question I was just curious if there were other designs out there in the USA That I could consider. Please keep the conversation going though as it is valuable to hear what people think cat or tri. I think building one myself is out though.

#53 W17 designer

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:01 AM

Hi there
For your info, there IS a foam/fiberglass version of the W17 being built right now (in the Philippines). ... from the plywood plans too.
Go here: and look for Latest info on the W17 at 'The Waters Edge' .. click on that .. and anything else that interests you ...

http://www.smalltrid...7-Trimaran.html

The boat might 'look' chunky to some, but it goes! Every surface and curve has a reason, or I'd change it.
This is not 'a light weather' boat ... it's built to be driven and has already done 800 nmiles at sea to prove that.

Enjoy!

mike

#54 unShirley

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 07:20 PM

W17 designer: 3 posts in one day promoting your design? You really need to buy an ad.

#55 Crump's Brother

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 12:59 PM

Bump

Found this new tri, looks nice Austus 18.2
Problem is it's in the EU

KB

#56 dstgean

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:48 PM

Just wanted to comment on a few points. First off speed isn't everything in this race, finishing is my goal not winning. 60 percent of starters don't make it for lots of reasons. This race is a real challenge. I thought of trying to buy a cat that is faster/bigger but there are several reasons I am not really keen on the idea. For one thing if the boat picked were designed for 2 people and most likely with traps to boot it would be a handful alone. Even with reefs or "dumbed down" it would still be less than ideal. If I re-rigged to slow it down, make it more manageable, then there would need to be a reason to pick that hull design, ie. more volume in the bows or great windward ability. Even then it would be greatly compromised in performance as it would be being used out of spec. Plus all cats have a common strike against them, storage. That's why the tri idea took hold, more storage. Course keeping everything up in the bow on any boat will not be ideal except in really light air (hoping for good wind). One idea I had was to make it so that the gear was in dry bags that I could move from side to side/port starboard. This would hold for any boat, tri or cat. The challenge becomes designing the system to do just that. I don't know much about attaching to mesh tramps. Of course tris have a strike against them too, ability to row in light conditions. With the beam and lift of the hulls it would be hard to row efficiently. Back to the original question I was just curious if there were other designs out there in the USA That I could consider. Please keep the conversation going though as it is valuable to hear what people think cat or tri. I think building one myself is out though.


I really depends on the type of race you want to have. If you want to hang with Randy or Livingston, you need the hottest cat or tri you can swing, and you better be good at sailing, navigating, going without sleep, etc. If you want to do well and have fun=sleep when you need to, you could do it on a beachcat or a tri. A reasonably stock H18 finished with an 80 year old at the helm two year's ago, so it's doable. Several other cats have finished over the years as well. Having a plan for being potentially wet for that long is needed for either a cat or tri. Teh year I did the T200 on the Hobie 18, I was miserable after 5 hours of being soaked. It's not that I wasn't having fun, it was that a bit more freeboard would have been the hot ticket to stay drier. I wonder why there's not a design that incorporates beachcat speed, kayak style hatches, wings, and a reefable platform?

Dan

#57 Speng

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:21 PM

$12.5K for a Raider is OK when you consider that relative to a new Laser or RS100. Another thing to consdier relative to say a Hobie 18 is the much lighter effort required to sail so you can balls out with less effort while with the bigger cat you'd be sailing it to a fraction of it's potential most of the time to keep your energy up. At the same time I can see the attraction of a Hobie 18 (17 maybe) with the seats as that'd definitely be more ergonomic than lying/sitting on a tramp all day. You definitely want to be abe to reef but a 2:1 synthetic halyard ought to solve that.

No mater what you sail in a race like this you'll likely be wet so it's a matter of getting good drysuit so you can be warm and comfortable. Guys are sailing across the atlantic on "beachcats" now and ariving with zero sores etc on the skin so getting good clothes is definitely the way to go

#58 craigiri

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 08:38 PM

Bump

Found this new tri, looks nice Austus 18.2
Problem is it's in the EU

KB


I read about these in the multihull magazine - they make quite a few other models - I think up to a 22.
http://www.astusboats.com/


The prices are good - they are not racers, but just day sailers. I think there would be a market for one company here to make low cost cats like that.

The 20 foot model, for example - in the sport package without VAT (as in the USA) would be less than 20K euros. That would be about 25,000 dollars here in the states. Add $2K for getting it here (2 or more to a container) and you'd have a package with a trailer about 30K.

That would seem to fill a hole between the sit-on-a-tramp lower cost models and the 50K Farrier (2013 probably) or the 60K Corsair.

#59 zerothehero

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 09:06 PM


Just wanted to comment on a few points. First off speed isn't everything in this race, finishing is my goal not winning. 60 percent of starters don't make it for lots of reasons. This race is a real challenge. I thought of trying to buy a cat that is faster/bigger but there are several reasons I am not really keen on the idea. For one thing if the boat picked were designed for 2 people and most likely with traps to boot it would be a handful alone. Even with reefs or "dumbed down" it would still be less than ideal. If I re-rigged to slow it down, make it more manageable, then there would need to be a reason to pick that hull design, ie. more volume in the bows or great windward ability. Even then it would be greatly compromised in performance as it would be being used out of spec. Plus all cats have a common strike against them, storage. That's why the tri idea took hold, more storage. Course keeping everything up in the bow on any boat will not be ideal except in really light air (hoping for good wind). One idea I had was to make it so that the gear was in dry bags that I could move from side to side/port starboard. This would hold for any boat, tri or cat. The challenge becomes designing the system to do just that. I don't know much about attaching to mesh tramps. Of course tris have a strike against them too, ability to row in light conditions. With the beam and lift of the hulls it would be hard to row efficiently. Back to the original question I was just curious if there were other designs out there in the USA That I could consider. Please keep the conversation going though as it is valuable to hear what people think cat or tri. I think building one myself is out though.


I really depends on the type of race you want to have. If you want to hang with Randy or Livingston, you need the hottest cat or tri you can swing, and you better be good at sailing, navigating, going without sleep, etc. If you want to do well and have fun=sleep when you need to, you could do it on a beachcat or a tri. A reasonably stock H18 finished with an 80 year old at the helm two year's ago, so it's doable. Several other cats have finished over the years as well. Having a plan for being potentially wet for that long is needed for either a cat or tri. Teh year I did the T200 on the Hobie 18, I was miserable after 5 hours of being soaked. It's not that I wasn't having fun, it was that a bit more freeboard would have been the hot ticket to stay drier. I wonder why there's not a design that incorporates beachcat speed, kayak style hatches, wings, and a reefable platform?

Dan

Well as a little update on the boat idea, I got to thinking and thinking and weighing things like cost and storage and that sort of stuff and I looked at every vid and blog I could find about boats that had done it and then I did something ill advised, I purchased a used Hobie 17. I say ill advised because this boat has several pluses but also many negatives. However the price was right and I am working through the issues and will hopefully be ably to mod this boat to fit the bill. One huge plus were the racks enabling me to get up off the water, the centerboard set up, and also the simple sail plan. Major downsides are low aft volume, difficulty working out a simple and reliable reefing system and a very low boom. If it turns out to be totally impossible to get this boat prepped then at least I don't have much into it and I can sell it.

#60 dstgean

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 10:26 PM

[/quote]
Well as a little update on the boat idea, I got to thinking and thinking and weighing things like cost and storage and that sort of stuff and I looked at every vid and blog I could find about boats that had done it and then I did something ill advised, I purchased a used Hobie 17. I say ill advised because this boat has several pluses but also many negatives. However the price was right and I am working through the issues and will hopefully be ably to mod this boat to fit the bill. One huge plus were the racks enabling me to get up off the water, the centerboard set up, and also the simple sail plan. Major downsides are low aft volume, difficulty working out a simple and reliable reefing system and a very low boom. If it turns out to be totally impossible to get this boat prepped then at least I don't have much into it and I can sell it.
[/quote]

Those are formidible, but solvable, problems for the race. The H 17 is a very low volume boat. You could pack like Randy S. to keep it from becoming too demoralizing. I'd start with the reefing. You might never use it, but you could incorporate it into the program by going to a zero stretch halyard. Stick with the regular hook or the OZ hook (easier catch). You'll also need a way to attach the downhaul to the reef point and the outhaul to the clew. I got a nifty file about how a H18 sailor did it for trips out to Catilina. It's complicated by the comptip, but still doable. I wouldn't hang the sail on the sheaves on the masthead & crank on the downhaul though. Will you pick up an asym? The racks are the key to making a cat comfortable. I am pursuing some for the H18 I have. The centerboards on the 17 Are a plus vs. the dagger in shallow water, I'll dig around & see if I have the reefing setup on this machine.

dan

#61 Crump's Brother

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 11:37 PM

Just wanted to comment on a few points. First off speed isn't everything in this race, finishing is my goal not winning. 60 percent of starters don't make it for lots of reasons. This race is a real challenge. I thought of trying to buy a cat that is faster/bigger but there are several reasons I am not really keen on the idea. For one thing if the boat picked were designed for 2 people and most likely with traps to boot it would be a handful alone. Even with reefs or "dumbed down" it would still be less than ideal. If I re-rigged to slow it down, make it more manageable, then there would need to be a reason to pick that hull design, ie. more volume in the bows or great windward ability. Even then it would be greatly compromised in performance as it would be being used out of spec. Plus all cats have a common strike against them, storage. That's why the tri idea took hold, more storage. Course keeping everything up in the bow on any boat will not be ideal except in really light air (hoping for good wind). One idea I had was to make it so that the gear was in dry bags that I could move from side to side/port starboard. This would hold for any boat, tri or cat. The challenge becomes designing the system to do just that. I don't know much about attaching to mesh tramps. Of course tris have a strike against them too, ability to row in light conditions. With the beam and lift of the hulls it would be hard to row efficiently. Back to the original question I was just curious if there were other designs out there in the USA That I could consider. Please keep the conversation going though as it is valuable to hear what people think cat or tri. I think building one myself is out though.

I really depends on the type of race you want to have. If you want to hang with Randy or Livingston, you need the hottest cat or tri you can swing, and you better be good at sailing, navigating, going without sleep, etc. If you want to do well and have fun=sleep when you need to, you could do it on a beachcat or a tri. A reasonably stock H18 finished with an 80 year old at the helm two year's ago, so it's doable. Several other cats have finished over the years as well. Having a plan for being potentially wet for that long is needed for either a cat or tri. Teh year I did the T200 on the Hobie 18, I was miserable after 5 hours of being soaked. It's not that I wasn't having fun, it was that a bit more freeboard would have been the hot ticket to stay drier. I wonder why there's not a design that incorporates beachcat speed, kayak style hatches, wings, and a reefable platform?Dan


Dan, what ever happened to the Tanamau (sp) cat? I met yall in 09 T200, I was in the Raider!

KB

BumpFound this new tri, looks nice Austus 18.2Problem is it's in the EUKB

I read about these in the multihull magazine - they make quite a few other models - I think up to a 22.http://www.astusboats.com/The prices are good - they are not racers, but just day sailers. I think there would be a market for one company here to make low cost cats like that. The 20 foot model, for example - in the sport package without VAT (as in the USA) would be less than 20K euros. That would be about 25,000 dollars here in the states. Add $2K for getting it here (2 or more to a container) and you'd have a package with a trailer about 30K.That would seem to fill a hole between the sit-on-a-tramp lower cost models and the 50K Farrier (2013 probably) or the 60K Corsair.



I'd be all over that Astus 18.2 at around 16,000 in my driveway.

What would a 16'-18' Weta clone cost, and would there be a market here in the US?
Opinions?

KB

#62 zerothehero

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 05:38 AM

dstgean,

Would really be interested in what you find out. I have looked at a lot of options. Unfortunately I don't have much time on the boat yet as we took a lot of property damage from Irene. I have thought about a zero stretch halyard as well as a pig tail set up but it seems really complicated and likely to foul (the pig tail that is). Have thought about adding hooks farther down but am not convinced that will work out either. Aware that I will need to put in the aluminum piece on the comptip. Outhaul/downhaul is no prob. Sail is not class legal but have already had a sailmaker check it out, said reef points are doable. Storage won't be too bad. Looked at what an 18 with wings did last year and it was pretty simple. Dry bags on the wings fore and aft. I can travel light but not as light as Randy. Guessin 100 lbs of gear. I weigh 150 so I am not overly heavy but heavier than racing trim by a bit. If I can I will get the boat loaded this summer for various tests. Fresh water is going to be the heaviest item and of most concern. Was hoping to be on the beach for 2013 but now I do not know, Irene really has thrown us way off.

#63 dstgean

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 01:59 PM

dstgean,

Would really be interested in what you find out. I have looked at a lot of options. Unfortunately I don't have much time on the boat yet as we took a lot of property damage from Irene. I have thought about a zero stretch halyard as well as a pig tail set up but it seems really complicated and likely to foul (the pig tail that is). Have thought about adding hooks farther down but am not convinced that will work out either. Aware that I will need to put in the aluminum piece on the comptip. Outhaul/downhaul is no prob. Sail is not class legal but have already had a sailmaker check it out, said reef points are doable. Storage won't be too bad. Looked at what an 18 with wings did last year and it was pretty simple. Dry bags on the wings fore and aft. I can travel light but not as light as Randy. Guessin 100 lbs of gear. I weigh 150 so I am not overly heavy but heavier than racing trim by a bit. If I can I will get the boat loaded this summer for various tests. Fresh water is going to be the heaviest item and of most concern. Was hoping to be on the beach for 2013 but now I do not know, Irene really has thrown us way off.


The pigtail was the route this H18 sailor took. Lemme see...here it is--sorry for the format.
Dan,

Having done numerous Santa Barbara Channel crossings on Gary Friesen's boat,
I knew the potential of the winds out there before attempting the same trip
on my Hobie 18.

There are numerous challenges to reefing the sail of a beach catamaran at
sea.

The "conventional" way of reefing a main that has the ring and hook system
(at least one that I have seen on other catamarans) uses a length of cable
installed between the ring and the head of the sail, along with a sail
equipped with a reef point. It works as follows:

1. Completely lower the main sail.
2. Remove the tack and clew from the boom.
3. Install the cable between the ring and the head of the main.
4. Rehoist.
5. Hook or pin the main's reef tack to the downhaul.
6. Pin the main's reef clew to the end of the boom.

There are two critical problems with this system:

1. With a contemporary H18 ring and hook system (without the flapper), it is
very likely you will not be able to lower your main once it is in the reefed
position. It is no problem to lower your main from the conventional position
(unreefed), because when you turn your mast, the sail provides resistance to
keep the ring in a position relative to the sail. In the reefed position,
that resistance is gone, and the ring will just turn with the mast and hook.
Not always, but most of the time. So you will need to capsize the boat at
sea or on a beach in order to unhook the ring with your hand, when this
happens.

2. The main thing to remember is that if you are reefing at sea, the seas
will be rough and the wind will be high during the operation. Pinning the
main reef clew can be VERY challenging. You are hanging off the stern of the
boat, lifting the boom, and trying to pin the clew of a main sail that will
be being blown to the side by the wind. The fight involves holding the clew
with both hands to get the boat to round up into the wind, then you raise
the boom and try to pin the clew while the boat falls off and the main
starts getting pulled away. I was unable to keep enough tension on the clew
to get the boat to round up AND pin the clew at the same time. So it is a
race to pin that clew before the boat falls off. You repeat this process
over and over, hoping to get the clew pinned one of those times before you
become either exhausted or seasick or both.

My system works really well for me. I put a lot of trial and error into
this, and I ended up with something that is relatively simple and works
every time, regardless of sea conditions. Here is the equipment:

1. An all aluminum mast. You may have a problem with the comptip, with the
bolt rope being pulled out of the luff track when reefed. I was told this
might be a problem with my mast, but I have not had any difficulties here.
The solution is to have a lug installed on the bolt rope at the head.

2. A flapper latch on the hook. I have the old style hook with a flapper
latch. Many sailors grind these off and I don't understand that. It is
sometimes a bit tricky to hook as you have less margin of error. However, my
feeling on this is that I would rather have the main easier to lower than
easier to raise. With the flapper latch, my main unhooks every single time
on the first try. And the flapper latch solves problem number 1 above. The
ring will unhook easily even in the reefed position.

3. A reef point installed in your main that leaves the head at a point
somewhere above the hounds. I can't find pictures of my reefed main, but I
believe it is at two panels. Lay your main out against your mast and see
what works. I had mine done at a local sailmaker.

4. A Witchard HR Snap Shackle (with associated control lines described
later), connecting the head of the main to the ring.
http://www.wichard-u...ap_Shackles.htm

5. A "clew assist" line installed on the reef clew of the main. (Sorry... No
pictures of this.) The assembly is comprised of a long shackle installed at
the main clew cringle, which attaches a short strap of cable (with 2 thimble
eyes) to attach the clew to the pin on the boom. (Think of a shroud which is
about 3 or 4 inches long). Also included is a line which runs from the
shackle, through a eyestrap http://www.layline.c...roduct/2817/676
installed on the end of the boom, at a 45 degree angle, then forward to a
jam cleat near the center of the boom.

Here are pictures of the main snap shackle assembly of the system:

http://www.catsail.com/projects/reef/

Note the updates that have been made since these pictures were taken.

Here is the sequence of operation:

1. Crew releases downhaul.
2. Crew pulls down on stabilizer line to keep ring on hook during the
shackle release.
3. Crew pulls on shackle control line to release the head of the main, and
the main falls to the reefed position at the end of the cable.
4. Crew moves downhaul hooks from the standard main tack to the reef tack
and tensions.
5. Skipper pulls on main "clew assist" line a couple inches and cleats to
the jam cleat.
6. Skipper unhooks main clew which is now slacked.
7. Skipper pulls on main "clew assist" line completely until clew cable
(described above) is resting at clew pin.
8. Skipper pins clew cable on boom, releases clew assist line, and sets
downhaul.

To unreef, the halyard is hoisted to get the ring over the flapper, the main
is lowered completely and the cable is either removed or the system is
re-rigged. The main is the raised in the conventional manner with the
exception that the boom is pinned before the main is hoisted. The crew
hoists the main, while the skipper lifts the mast.

Hopefully, I got all the terminology right. Good luck with this, and contact
me if you have any more questions.

Bill

I also have some photos from a post made at thebeachcats. Hope that helps. If you had an aluminum stick, you could do the spectra halyard if the sheaves were up to it. However, getting max downhaul on the sail is pretty important in high wind situations & would likely rip out the masthead sheave.

Dan

#64 zerothehero

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 03:51 PM

Just took a quick look at this info and it's really going to be helpful, thanks! Will have to spend more time later picking it apart and getting my head completely around the system.

#65 AdventureTri

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Posted 13 January 2012 - 11:16 PM

KB,

I've been working on a design and the components for an upsized weta clone. Chris Ostlind has a great design for one, but I'm not sure anyone has actually taken it past the CAD graphic stage. Making one using existing parts and pieces, even with carbon beams and mast should in fact be less expensive than what a new one would cost, I'm looking at around $6-8K, actually more like $4k out of pocket because I have some of the parts already, including main hull, rudder, mainsail, etc. Won't be as fast as Randy's boat, but shoulf have more capacity and speed than the Weta. The problem with a new production boat is the production costs, molds, etc. Mail me offline.

Mark

#66 DaveK

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 12:06 AM

I'd be all over that Astus 18.2 at around 16,000 in my driveway.

What would a 16'-18' Weta clone cost, and would there be a market here in the US?
Opinions?

KB


Will you just buy a weta! :P

But I think there is a market for a 16/18 footer. Problem comes to mind about righting these but I'm sure there can or will be a sport version of a tri in this size. When I first started looking for a tri, I ran across this and it is pretty sporty as well.

http://www.nand.net/~josh/boat/

#67 eric e

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 07:36 AM

KB,

I've been working on a design and the components for an upsized weta clone. Chris Ostlind has a great design for one, but I'm not sure anyone has actually taken it past the CAD graphic stage. Making one using existing parts and pieces, even with carbon beams and mast should in fact be less expensive than what a new one would cost, I'm looking at around $6-8K, actually more like $4k out of pocket because I have some of the parts already, including main hull, rudder, mainsail, etc. Won't be as fast as Randy's boat, but shoulf have more capacity and speed than the Weta. The problem with a new production boat is the production costs, molds, etc. Mail me offline.

Mark


as the weta mainhull and rig is so skiff-like

i wonder if an old skiff would make a good starter

say a b14 or i14 with weta floats grafted on

and if you are willing to lengthen the weta floats, use some 16' beachcats hulls or make your own 6 sided 4mm plywood torpedoes, (lengthened f12 vudu hulls?)

even an 18 foot skiff could be turned into a large planning hull weta

#68 DaveOnCudjoe

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 02:25 PM

Zero,
I'm reading this thread with interest having 5 sucessful and one DNF under my belt in the EC. Motivations and expectations are quite varied in the event and I would suggest going in a mono that you can sleep aboard and enjoying the ride, especially if going solo. I'm not participating this year but plan to follow the fleet in my F-31. Perhaps our paths will cross at Indian Key Pass, Flamingo or Key Largo. Dave

#69 DIYC

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 03:39 PM

I have a Weta which is perfect when going out for a sail when I don't have crew. However, for those days when I want to bring the wife or friends out for a sail it is simply too small. I too have been looking for a Tri in the 16' - 20' range, a larger Weta or smaller Corsair would be ideal. I would be first in line to buy if the price was in the $20k - $30k range.

BobSled

#70 munt

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:07 PM

there's a nice multi 23 for sale on yachtworld (I think) Under 30k and can't be beat for fast/fun...

#71 munt

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 04:11 PM

http://www.yachtworl...A/United-States

there she is

#72 Doug Lord

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 05:34 PM

For smaller tris a planing mainhull makes a lot of sense-like the Weta and this- based on the Cherub-called "Banshee Ambulance". Lighter with a lot mores SA than the WETA-seems like it could use more beam:

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#73 k8edidski

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 06:35 PM

site for parts, some great blocks, pins

sailboatjunkyard.com




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#74 craigiri

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:00 PM

there's a nice multi 23 for sale on yachtworld (I think) Under 30k and can't be beat for fast/fun...


The one which was posted here (SA) was cheaper - it sold (I inquired).......

Nice boat!

I have an inquiry into Astus just to see what shipment is to the east coast. With the current strong dollar, it might just put it into a value situation.....and, if nothing else, would be nice to know for others who might have interest.

#75 Tboned

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:29 PM

I have always wanted some type of a "center hull" that I could use to attach my cat hulls to, and use my mast and sails, turn my racing cat into a cruising tri once in a while for exploring, not racing, but then turn it back into a racing cat for the weekend regattas. The two things that would have to be 'engineered' would be the beams and tramps, oh, and the center hull of course. There are so many old, cheap, beach cats available, I would think if someone could build a simple kit with just the center hull, tramps and beams, it would sell well.

#76 dstgean

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 10:46 PM


KB,

I've been working on a design and the components for an upsized weta clone. Chris Ostlind has a great design for one, but I'm not sure anyone has actually taken it past the CAD graphic stage. Making one using existing parts and pieces, even with carbon beams and mast should in fact be less expensive than what a new one would cost, I'm looking at around $6-8K, actually more like $4k out of pocket because I have some of the parts already, including main hull, rudder, mainsail, etc. Won't be as fast as Randy's boat, but shoulf have more capacity and speed than the Weta. The problem with a new production boat is the production costs, molds, etc. Mail me offline.

Mark


as the weta mainhull and rig is so skiff-like

i wonder if an old skiff would make a good starter

say a b14 or i14 with weta floats grafted on

and if you are willing to lengthen the weta floats, use some 16' beachcats hulls or make your own 6 sided 4mm plywood torpedoes, (lengthened f12 vudu hulls?)

even an 18 foot skiff could be turned into a large planning hull weta



Richard Woods is thinking of doing just that for the T200 this year and base it on the B14.

Dan

#77 eric e

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Posted 18 January 2012 - 11:23 PM


as the weta mainhull and rig is so skiff-like

i wonder if an old skiff would make a good starter

say a b14 or i14 with weta floats grafted on

and if you are willing to lengthen the weta floats, use some 16' beachcats hulls or make your own 6 sided 4mm plywood torpedoes, (lengthened f12 vudu hulls?)

even an 18 foot skiff could be turned into a large planning hull weta


Richard Woods is thinking of doing just that for the T200 this year and base it on the B14.

Dan


love to see pics when they are available




#78 P Flados

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 02:50 AM

Over at Boat Design Net, we are having some good discusion on an innovative little tri, Slickest folding tri.

#79 eric e

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Posted 19 January 2012 - 01:16 PM

a good read over there

i gave up trying to join when it became apparent it was going to take more than 2 attempts...

i only wanted to contribute 2 things

1. the designer was not sure what to call his rig...i think it's a bezaan rig, which is a dutch name for a kind of solid forestay/mast flying a lateen sail...was the half step between the arabic lateen rig, as found on the sunfish and the bermuda rig as we know it today

2. naming of the mast lifting plate............the "E-Z step", seems a no brainer and in keeping with his other terminology

The lateen rig was also the ancestor of the Bermuda rig, by way of the Dutch bezaan rig. In the 16th Century, when Spain ruled the Netherlands, the lateen rigs were introduced to Dutch boat builders who soon modified the design by omitting the mast and fastening the lower end of the yard directly to the deck, the yard becoming a raked mast with a full-length, triangular (leg-of-mutton) mainsail aft. Introduced to Bermuda early in the 17th Century, this developed into the Bermuda rig, which, in the 20th Century, was adopted almost universally for small sailing vessels.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lateen

#80 bones M

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Posted 20 January 2012 - 03:51 AM

Great thread! I love ogling tris in this range. Thought I'd through this one out there although it's not USA origin. It's an interesting stitch and glue 18 footer. I thing an sliding beam system (like L7) could make it trailerable...
http://hensevalyd-en...dine-run-5-50m/

#81 Lat 18

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:59 PM

just go buy a damn multi 23 would you man!



Another entry in the daysail trimaran market, though it's a bit longer than 22'. Check out the Motive 25: motive trimarans.com.

#82 Multihauler

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 04:24 PM


just go buy a damn multi 23 would you man!


Another entry in the daysail trimaran market, though it's a bit longer than 22'. Check out the Motive 25: motive trimarans.com.

Linky: Motive Trimarans

Site is a bit lacking in........um, detail.

Hopefully it's legit, and not another Wingz cluster f***.

Anybody got the "scoop"?


Cheers!!!

-MH

#83 Cakewalk

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:58 PM

This trimaran was built from the plans of a 32' Farrier, it is a around $7,900. I will post it to SA classifieds

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#84 craigiri

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:47 PM


just go buy a damn multi 23 would you man!



Another entry in the daysail trimaran market, though it's a bit longer than 22'. Check out the Motive 25: motive trimarans.com.


Nice lines on that boat!

It's strange that they seem so secretive.....

#85 TheFlash

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:53 PM

This trimaran was built from the plans of a 32' Farrier, it is a around $7,900. I will post it to SA classifieds


that looks nothing like any Farrier 32 I've seen….

#86 craigiri

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:00 PM

Only hint I have on Motive is that web domain name was registered in Switzerland......but there is a Motive Trimarans LLC in Shelter Island, NY which is the address of a house with a monohull in the driveway (google view!)........

I suppose we could ask them......

#87 Cakewalk

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:14 PM


This trimaran was built from the plans of a 32' Farrier, it is a around $7,900. I will post it to SA classifieds


that looks nothing like any Farrier 32 I've seen….



How about now?Attached File  farrierscull 029.JPG   149.9K   64 downloads

#88 TheFlash

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:22 PM

the current F32 design? Minimized for a daysailer/non-folder?

#89 Cakewalk

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:13 AM

It was told it was scaled down to 60%
the current F32 design? Minimized for a daysailer/non-folder?



#90 TheFlash

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:48 AM

thanks, that makes sense

#91 pacice

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:35 AM

Does Ian get 60% of his normal design fee? :huh:

#92 vmg

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:22 AM

This trimaran was built from the plans of a 32' Farrier, it is a around $7,900. I will post it to SA classifieds


looks good

did you buy the plans and modify them yourself or was Farrier involved?

#93 Cakewalk

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 03:32 PM


This trimaran was built from the plans of a 32' Farrier, it is a around $7,900. I will post it to SA classifieds


looks good

did you buy the plans and modify them yourself or was Farrier involved?

The builder was a NASA engineer,he bought the plans to build a 32 and built the 19' boat to practice first. He lost a bunch of money in the realestate mess and never built the 32'. I bought her last year

#94 Amati

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:09 PM

I don't know if anyone has posted a linky to this stuff, but here are 3 riffs on the Weta gestalt:

Corsica 15r

Then scroll down to the Collage and Montage.

http://www.lunadades...hulls/trimarans

Edit- and here's a fun site, although a lot of euro stuff. Pick a size, spend hours drooling.

http://www.nauticalt...om/35-trimarans

Start with the 4 metre size, thats where the Weta is. Anybody sailed the Astus? Maybe somebody imports some of these.



Triporn!

#95 Amati

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:50 PM

Here's a beautifully crisp US tri

http://www.chisletts...TRISAIL_21.html

#96 Amati

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:15 PM

Here's another one I've been drooling over. You need flash to look at it, so no iPads...

Linky:

http://www.trimaran-...rtif-familiale/

#97 tacksea

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 01:32 PM

I'm still surprised that nobody ever mentioned these tris from virusboat, I sailed one few years ago in about 15 knots / 2-3' waves and I had one of the best time on the water

http://www.ahoy-boat...21S-gallery.htm

#98 craigiri

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

I'm still surprised that nobody ever mentioned these tris from virusboat, I sailed one few years ago in about 15 knots / 2-3' waves and I had one of the best time on the water

http://www.ahoy-boat...21S-gallery.htm


These have been mentioned in various threads - seems few, if any, are in America. I even made an inquiry about shipping because the dollar was so strong. I got a reply saying they would get back to me after figuring shipping...then nothing!

To my knowledge, none of the french tris are being actively marketed or sold here (other than the multi 23 - if that is french).

#99 tikipete

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:28 PM

http://www.wetamarine.com/ Give this a serious look. They should get some sort of award for design, just in the way they pack-up for trailering and storage.

If you're looking for something small, weight should be of primary concern imo. If weight doesn't matter, why limit yourself to small?

#100 Doug Lord

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:51 PM

A bit more of a "mini-cruiser" but worth a look. This is the roomiest 20 footer I've seen yet-unbelievably spacious and yet looks very ,very good!

specs here: http://www.microsoft...seagull-20.html

Specifications:
Displacement: 800kg / 1760lb
LOA 20'
Max Beam- 18'
--folded-2.54m / 8.3'
Draft- .34m / 1.1' // 1.52m / 5'
Mast Height 9.13m / 29.9'
Main 17 sq.m /183sq.ft
Foch(jib?) 8.9 sq.m / 96 sq.ft.
Gennaker 18.3 m / 197 sq.ft

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