1046 replies to this topic

[olaf hart]

Lectra-San? No, especially with the Chesapeake to be designated an NDZ, and legislature talking about making us tank our gray water.

Now a Lavac...that's a different story. Gatekeeper says he gets twice the holding time on his tank since he upgraded.

I thought Lavacs use a lot more water than conventional boat toilets, so you get less holding time.

[Trendsetter]

I find it hard to believe that they will ever outlaw the lectro scan on the Chesapeake to many of the waterman have them and they have HUGE lobbying power. Now if you want to spend even more money but get the most bang for your buck go with a vacu-flush you will never have an odar problem and they hold about 4x times as many flushes for the same tank size since they use less water and vaccum it all in there... but man are they prciey

[Innocent Bystander]

Lectra-San? No, especially with the Chesapeake to be designated an NDZ, and legislature talking about making us tank our gray water.

Now a Lavac...that's a different story. Gatekeeper says he gets twice the holding time on his tank since he upgraded.

I thought Lavacs use a lot more water than conventional boat toilets, so you get less holding time.

Cite for that. Got rejected in 2010. Are you hearing that it's coming up again?

[SailAR]

I find it hard to believe that they will ever outlaw the lectro scan on the Chesapeake to many of the waterman have them and they have HUGE lobbying power. Now if you want to spend even more money but get the most bang for your buck go with a vacu-flush you will never have an odar problem and they hold about 4x times as many flushes for the same tank size since they use less water and vaccum it all in there... but man are they prciey

Just look at the exploded parts diagram for a Vacuflush and that should cure you of any desire to purchase one. We are tossing the Vacuflush the new-to-us boat has this winter and going back to a Raritan freshwater with the integral macerator. Low consumption and was highly reliable on the old boat.

[stickboy]

I'm sure we've chatted about this before but this is what Rita P came with forward of the water tank:

Stickboy,

Regarding your pump-out hose to the deck fitting, where is that located? If this tank is forward of your water tank, the only place I can envision, is up by the anchor locker. Is your pump-out deck fitting way up on the bow?

Everything goes to the tank, hose back from tank to the hanging locker, y-valve in the hanging locker, one side goes to macerator, the other side goes to deck. The only real hurdle is that you gotta cut a big hole in the v-berth platform. Rita P had the entire platform made removable. I kinda question the loss of structural integrity but never had a problem. If you just open up forward of the water tank I don't think it would be as bad.

I'll go take a pic of the hoses in the hanging locker.

[Ajax]

Whoa, whoa. Macerator? Is that essential? Do all boats with holding tanks have these? It's an electric pump that grinds up the waste, right? Fark, I really don't need more wiring and electrical loads.

[toddster]

You don't need a macerator. Especially if you never go outside the legal dumping limit. I inherited one (broken) so I rebuilt it and reinstalled it. If you do, you need a handy through-hull and a Y valve that can be locked closed in case of inspection. I rigged mine so that the (new) head lavatory normally drains to the through-hull. Operating the Y valve connects the macerator instead.

(Some guys connect the lavatory to the toilet intake, so they can flush with fresh water and avoid putting sea water (sulfate) in the holding tank. )

[stickboy]

The link I posted earlier of the specs of a tank were just a general idea of the shape, I don't have the specs on mine but you can take your own measurements. The middle picture with the vinyl pulled back shows that the platform was cut. And the vent line for the water tank has to take a bad lead to go over the holding tank that makes a trap but it hasn't been a problem. The holding tank isn't huge but it gets us by, if you need something bigger the hanging locker would work or maybe something UNDER the water tank?

edit: Crap, those came out as thumbnails, I'll figure it out. these work:
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/
http://www.flickr.co...in/photostream/

[Ajax]

I have the exact same setup in the hangup locker, minus the macerator. Pretty interesting setup. I checked tonight, and I do have space in front of the water tank, so we appear to have identical setups.

[Ajax]

Lectra-San? No, especially with the Chesapeake to be designated an NDZ, and legislature talking about making us tank our gray water.

Now a Lavac...that's a different story. Gatekeeper says he gets twice the holding time on his tank since he upgraded.

I thought Lavacs use a lot more water than conventional boat toilets, so you get less holding time.

Cite for that. Got rejected in 2010. Are you hearing that it's coming up again?

No, nothing since 2010, but you know that people will keep gunning for it, until they finally get it.

[Kaptainkriz]

Noooooooo, no need for that.

Whoa, whoa. Macerator? Is that essential? Do all boats with holding tanks have these? It's an electric pump that grinds up the waste, right? Fark, I really don't need more wiring and electrical loads.

[stickboy]

Whoa, whoa. Macerator? Is that essential? Do all boats with holding tanks have these? It's an electric pump that grinds up the waste, right? Fark, I really don't need more wiring and electrical loads.

Na, you don't have to have one. If you ONLY use a pump out to evacuate the holding tank and your y-valve is tank/overboard you're fine. That way you have SOMETHING if the tank is full and you can't get it pumped (direct overboard).

You can use a Whale Gusher or something like that instead of the macerator if you want everything to go to the tank then have the option to pump overboard.

If you want the option of tank/overboard AND pump out/overboard tank evacuation you end up with two y-valves and a brain cramp.

[Ishmael]

One Y and one ball valve, done this way:

 t-valve.jpg   309.17K   8 downloads

The Y selects tank or overboard, the rest is pretty obvious.

Not my idea, came with the boat, hats off to whoever thunk of it.

And a big backhand to the idiot who crammed a poorly-made aluminum tank into a fiberglass molding and then screwed a big bronze ball valve into it. Not enough room to get the hold-downs on, but enough room to grow iridescent blue crystals all over the place.

[floating dutchman]

Ajax, would a bulkhead tank or under (side) deck tank fit / work? This way you can discharge with gravity, No pump. Mine is a bulkhead type and apart from being way too small works very well and is very simple.

Those breather filters, I read somewhere (here?) that they accualy make the smells worse because the restrict the air getting to the tank and shorten the time it takes for the bactera to go anarobic, Anarobic black water smells a lot worse than arobic black water. Something to ponder.

[Innocent Bystander]

Whoa, whoa. Macerator? Is that essential? Do all boats with holding tanks have these? It's an electric pump that grinds up the waste, right? Fark, I really don't need more wiring and electrical loads.

Na, you don't have to have one. If you ONLY use a pump out to evacuate the holding tank and your y-valve is tank/overboard you're fine. That way you have SOMETHING if the tank is full and you can't get it pumped (direct overboard).

You can use a Whale Gusher or something like that instead of the macerator if you want everything to go to the tank then have the option to pump overboard.

If you want the option of tank/overboard AND pump out/overboard tank evacuation you end up with two y-valves and a brain cramp.

Ah, the old nuclear option. Not having a direct overboard option creates two issues. When offshore, you have to pump to the holding tank and then overboard. More steps, more connectinos, more potential failures. Whe inshore and if you can't get to a pumpout, you don't have the option to pump individual "deposits" over until you can pump out or (better) put solids in the tank and liquids direct overboard as SWMBO rejects the stern pulpit for her activities. You have to pump overboard from the tank.

With most boats having laughable holding tanks (13 gallons on a J-120), I suspect a lot more is going over the side than we like to think.

[kent_island_sailor]

I know of many boats where you could use the holding tank for drinking water. It has NEVER seen sewage. Every time I read about a mulit-million gallon sewage spill that "did no damage and will clear up shortly" I curse all the "feel good" NDZ worthless crap. I have been assured by a marine biologist friend that the areas where a holding tank would make an actual measurable difference are very few and far between.
That said - please do NOT be the guy that dumps in the marina. Ever since I was a kid on a boat in 1969 it was considered very bad form to do #2 in the slip and the guy that dumps his HOLDING TANK is 1,000 times worse

[Ajax]

I'm not doing the "nuclear option".

You guys have provided enough links to companies that will build a custom, plastic tank or offer tanks that are close enough in dimensions to what I need, so I'll take some measurements, pick one and stick it in one side of the hang-up locker and be done with it.

The cool thing is, I won't even need to cut a deck hole for a pump-out fitting. I can simply pass the pump-out hose in through the bathroom window to the top of the tank (about 6 inches away). I hate cutting holes, especially in the deck, especially in a dry, solid deck.

13 gallons? I'd be giddy with 13 gallons after living with 5 gallons.

[Slick470]

not sure you want that pump out hose in your boat. Some are just plain nasty. As much as I can understand not wanting to cut the hole, I'd put in the deck fitting.

[kent_island_sailor]

Cut the hole. Epoxy is your friend - seal the edges.

[steele]

Ajax, I agree with putting in a proper deck fitting for pump out. If you do not you will have to work out some cap for the end of the pump out hose that will leak someday. Much better to have a leak running down the outside of the deck than into the bilge. When I cut my deck fitting it was measure 10 times cut once, but in the end it was not a big deal. Drilling the hole in the side of the hull for the vent made me more anxious.

Like you I was very reluctant to add any complexity or electric parts to the project. My system is the minimal Y valve at the discharge end of the head with one leg to the old seacock for direct overboard and the second for the tank. No power pumps or macerators. I used this for a tank monitor,
 wp08b75c36_05.jpg   81.73K   8 downloads
http://www.electrosense.com/
It is wired with cat 5 cable and uses a 9 volt batt for power. It lets me know if I am getting close to full, which helps reduce the need for a direct overboard pump out for the tank.

[Kaptainkriz]

Ewwwwww, noooooooooooooo!
You have no idea how often I've covered myself in effluent from high vacuum sucker making a piston/column and blowing the seal. :(/>

The cool thing is, I won't even need to cut a deck hole for a pump-out fitting. I can simply pass the pump-out hose in through the bathroom window to the top of the tank (about 6 inches away). I hate cutting holes, especially in the deck, especially in a dry, solid deck.

[hard aground]

Cut the hole 'jax, it's the right thing to do.

[Ishmael]

Ewwwwww, noooooooooooooo!
You have no idea how often I've covered myself in effluent from high vacuum sucker making a piston/column and blowing the seal. :(/>

The cool thing is, I won't even need to cut a deck hole for a pump-out fitting. I can simply pass the pump-out hose in through the bathroom window to the top of the tank (about 6 inches away). I hate cutting holes, especially in the deck, especially in a dry, solid deck.

Blowing the guy is one thing, blowing seals is totally off the map.

[Ajax]

Hrm...yuck. Ok, I'll cut the hole.

[Robcooper0767]

Hey Rob,

Congratulations! I'm jealous of your VPC halyards. I haven't got that far yet. It's good to hear from another local P30 owner. From what I can tell, the cockpit gelcoat is the same as everywhere else, so you can use the barkeepers there. Test in a small, inconspicuous spot around a drain first.

If you've been lurking for a while, then you know the traditional greeting. Get 'em out!

Holy crap! It's been many months since I've visited.,,,,Consider 'em out!! So, here's the latest. Finally got her up to APG in August!! Jesus, missed the whole friggin' year. A few sails, some issues (who doesn't have 'em), and on comes the Hurricane. Tie her up nice and secure on floating dock, check on her.....looks good. Come back 2 days after storm and the damn tiller is LAYING SIDEWAYS IN THE COCKPIT, with the lines securing her still attached. No water in the boat, she's looking like she rode the storm well, EXCEPT, I'm looking down at the f'ing WATER through the rudder tube!!! The rudder mount (aluminium) cracked from the rudder being slapped around by the current. NO RUDDER to be seen. Check the shoreline for stray boat parts (find none) and I have to get a Diver...and yes, there is a God, and he finds the rudder jammed in the mud under the boat. Now here's the thing...imagine the water receding over a few days, and a very low tide happens, oh yeah, with wind and mighty chop. Let's envision the ss rudder post ramming a hole in the bottom of the stern....,,,,,,Now, that nightmare was avoided but it certainly was lucky the Diver found the rudder in still heavy current and water so muddy he couldn't see the flashlight in front of his mask (he literally bumped into the rudder with his leg and felt down....viola!). Rudder is now in my shed at the house. Doesn't look damaged, so assessment is Aluminum rudder cap and too much play in rudder bushings gave Old Aluminum rudder cap the beating of it's live and it gave up and cracked about 1/4 way around "east to ssw"
So, had the boat towed to the Marina where she is being kept on the hard (Perryville), and didn't even want to start engine until verification that the prop shaft wasn't bent. Still not sure, but will look over and will definitely know when winterizing the engine.
I'll have to upload some photos, but here's the question. Rudder mount (at exit from hull) has basically a fine crack around the extruding mount. Gave cursory look (need to inspect) to rudder tube inside engine compartment but couldn't get close enough. From what I've read, the exposed rudder mount exit is prone to cracking and I've seen others who have beefed up the exit. I think (hope) the external hull section can be reinforced and reglassed to make it stronger. Have recommendation from Dan Pfeiffer to replace both Rudder mount and tiller mount with Bronze from Rudy at D&R Marine. Don't think the Alum Tiller mount is damaged, but both bronze may be the way to go. He doesn't even make the Alum rudder mount (for last 19 years they've been Bronze). That's a quick grand.

So, any recommendations/observations welcome. Will probably have to use someone in Havre de Grace to inspect for structural integrity......any recommendations?
Lastly, check your rudder mounts on P-30's and 26's. Rudy said he knew folks who had it happen while sailing...goodbye rudder (2 grand for just the rudder).
Still haven't gotten the vang, but thanks for the ideas......someone said in the thread........upgrading only as fast as my wallet allows...,,,this unplanned "present" parts, inspections, glass work (hopefully nothing else), will put some dents in the plan.
can you say, aw shit!
R
Here's some photos of other P-30s and the one that beefed the rudder mount....I'm thinking of copying that improvement, comments? I will upload photos of the cracking around my rudder mount.,,,it's a fine couple of cracks in a 360 around the protruding section, so it might just be from the banging back and forth from the rudder tube (that is one reinforced tube!!), and I'd appreciate comments.  P30 Rudder Mount Crack_other boat.jpg   157.63K   31 downloads  Pearson 30 EXCELLENT RUDDER MOUNT REPAIR PHOTO AND PROP PHOTO.doc   286K   12 downloads

[Robcooper0767]

Hey, forgot to ask....I've had water in the bow section, behind the (dry) water tank, under the forward berth. I have yet to find, and don't think there is, a hole that allows any accumulated water in the bottom of the forward berth to connect to the bilge aft. I looked at 3 P-30's before I bought this one, and all three had accumulated water in the bottom of the vee berth section. I had all the deck mounted hardware re-bed, and the thru hulls replaced last spring. I'm going to check the bow lights, rebed/replace them. Does anyone know of a pathway for water drainage, or did Pearson not chose to put one in? Anyone have a vee berth bilge pump? I gather that the water shouldn't be there (and it's not alot, maybe 3 coffee cans full after a bad rain (2-3 inches in a normal size bucket).....Seems a bilge pump with line through the wet locker would solve it. Need to figure out Where the water is coming from, but until I do, I'd like it to go somewhere instead of staying under the berth.......
Comments/Thoughts appreciated....
Hey Ajax, any problems with this on Old Shoes?
Check that rudder mount!!
R

[Ajax]

Hey Rob,

Wow, that's a hell of a story. I'm sure glad you found your rudder, and that you can make repairs.

I bought my boat on the hard, and I definitely recall that there were no cracks or faults around the rudder tube exit.
I do have aluminum tiller hardware, and I'm not overly fond of it. Brozne would be better, and that might be a future upgrade.

The little sump under the v-berth: Water will eventually rise to a point where it runs downhill into the bilge, but there is a little pocket that collects a little water. You simply have to wet-vac or sponge it out. The only time I get water there, is if I spill some while loading fresh water. Keep working on sealing leaks. I know you've re-bedded a lot, but keep looking. Pulpit bases, nav lights, all of it. Also the bathroom window that opens, make sure it seals tightly, doesn't leak when it rains.
You could install a "nuisance" bilge pump, but it's better to just stop the leaks. Also, make sure there are no transducer through-hulls that are leaking. My depth finder transducer is there. Is the water fresh or salt?

I strongly urge you to keep that area dry because it runs downhill when it fills up, and the first thing it meets, is the base of the oak compression post at the forward end of the bilge sump. You want the compmression post to stay dry and not rot out on you.

Hope you have a productive winter, and get everything fixed up.

[Robcooper0767]

Ajax,
Thanks! Being a second time around Dad (4 kids in their mid and early 20's and all gone, and now a 3 1/2 year old, "productive" is a matter of stealing time.....oh yeah, that's REAL easy, ha ha.
Those rudder post cracks are new from the storm since I had the entire bottom blasted to gelcoat and barrier coated/3 coats of bottom paint this past Spring. My concern is structural damage, but I may have dodged a bullet (fingers crossed). That's why I put out the call to anyone who knows a good contact here in Northern Chesapeake. I'm not going to pretend I can assess it myself.

Forward Berth: I didn't do anything this year other than sponging, etc for the same reason.....didn't want any water near the compression post. Looks like one of the POs had that glassed x years ago, but don't want to cause any problems that don't exist now! Home Depot has a manual stick "sump" with a 6' exit flex tube that I may buy for $30 and modify the receiving end to hold a flex tube as well. That way, I'm not trying to put a 3' x 2" stick in the bottom drawer and fumbling.....just put a piece of flex hose, run drain to aft bilge (or into cockpit/over side) and I'm home free. Still think it's weird that a fairly large space, especially with the anchor locker forward and a hatch above wouldn't have the ability to drain....but I know I'm not as smart as Bill Shaw, so I'll tip my hat to him and work alternatives, still, a strange design(?).
May replace the forward hatch (another big cost of course) but probably not this winter to get a modern/better seal. Next things to check are nav lights and I have 2 side by side bow cleats that I'm not sure if the boatyard rebed them or not. Head port is fixed, sink port is opening, and the 2 ports in the vee berth open. Have been on her in a hard rain and don't see seepage. Had all the thru hulls replaced last spring, to include a new Raymarine knotmeter transducer. The boatyard checked her when she was launched and I look as well (often) but don't see seepage. Not a major pain, and certainly not the "issue of the hour", but The Discovery Continues!!!

Do you have any issue of Atomic 4 exhaust stink in the cabin? I had an entire exhaust (header/gaskets, muffler, exhaust) replaced in July (one of the reasons boat didn't splash til August. They didn't tighten and/or it seated and I had the monoxide detector go off when on motor back to dock (20 mins) with wife and 3.5 year old. Yard came back out and tightened, checked with sniffer (at my insistence) and passed. I have an fully open section to the engine on the portside stern berth, behind the nav table, probably for easy oil dipstick access (PO). Thinking of closing that off with a hinged panel. Comments?
Also, where are your blower intake and exhaust ends located? Can you provide some detailed info and/or even photos for that from Old Shoes? You and I are the only ones left with Atomic 4's I think!! My intake was all the way down in the bilge (lowest point, gases), but the mechanic moved it out of the bilge and placed it at the wood for the base of the stair support, beyond the engine but not in the bilge, "to get more of the "engine smell and gases" out".
Would like to come by and see Old Shoes sometime this winter to see all the good things you've done. Seems difficult to get some of the concepts from web discussions/photos of the same boat. I'm a visual on-site guy and so new to this, all is good data. You're welcome to come up and see Passegiatta in Perryville if you're up this way.
Hopefully, major winter project....taking dark blue hull and making her white.....we'll see.
Enough of the "Novella" for now!
Cheers,
Rob

[Ajax]

What you and I have, is "blow-by". There is no PCV recirculation on these engines, so they vent out of the oil breather cap and it makes a stink and a fog in the cabin when the engine is heavily loaded. Get thee hence, to the Moyer Marine website and order a PCV retro-fit kit and install it. That'll take care of the blow-by. The Moyer forum is a wealth of Atomic-4 knowledge, and you'll find that there are still many of us around.

Blocking off the quarter berth? Sure, why not? Not a big deal.

You have a lot more opening windows than I do. I've noticed that some P30's put the opening window above the sink (stbd) and others on port. Mine's on port. (shrug)

Forepeak hatch: If you're looking to replace it, the Lewmar Ocean Series 60 is a bolt-on replacement. Stickboy can provide photos, as he's installed one on his boat. This is a future project for me as well.

Engine blower: I can post up some pictures for you. I have the OEM setup- hoses in the bilge, blowers in the lazzarette, with two little dorade looking doo-dads on the transom. I think there's nothing wrong with what your mechanic did. He only moved the hose intakes by a foot or so. I haven't installed the PCV re-fit kit, so I run the blowers while motoring, but I barely motor, and I rarely load the engine up, so I hardly get any stink.

We can certainly arrange a visit sometime soon, to compare notes. PM me and we can exchange email addys, and photos.

[EighthDeadlySin]

That's the second P-30 rudder breaking off that I've heard about recently. One of the Magothy boats lost theirs off of Solomon's in 2011 returning from Gov Cup.

You guys might want to get together and watch eBay. $1k for a new rudder, or $500 for a whole P-30..... Swap rudders, store the mast and other parts somewhere, sell the lead keel and use the funds to buy pizza and beer for the gang that cuts up the hull.

[Ajax]

Although the thought of cannibalizing a P30 for parts makes me cringe, there's definite wisdom in what you say.

That's the second P-30 rudder breaking off that I've heard about recently. One of the Magothy boats lost theirs off of Solomon's in 2011 returning from Gov Cup.

You guys might want to get together and watch eBay. $1k for a new rudder, or $500 for a whole P-30..... Swap rudders, store the mast and other parts somewhere, sell the lead keel and use the funds to buy pizza and beer for the gang that cuts up the hull.

[Robcooper0767]

I'm just "lucky" mine happened in the slip instead of underway. It's almost $3k, $2K for the rudder from D&R, and $1k for the Bronze Rudder cap and tiller fitting parts! The channel I have to follow to outside Spesutie Island makes for the motoring time, and I will look to the Moyer site and that PCV part. I always run the motors while motoring, seems sensible. Moyer also has an oil dipstick mod that brings the stick to the front of the motor so it can be checked without having to be a contortionist...seems like a good addition too. Let's see if their is any structural damage first before I start "Christmas wish list".

[stickboy]

The dipstick extension is slick, so is the extension for the waterpump grease cup, right up there with the oil extraction tube. Love all of them. I don't have the PCV kit but that would be nice.

My v-berth drains into the bilge, it's just a small hole drilled through the tabbing. I would think that would be an easy fix. My bilge isn't bone dry due to the standard stuffing box but the mast base is raised an inch or more on what appears to be a honking gob of Marine-Tex under a 1/4" aluminum plate. And the mast step has a hardwood (oak?) 2x6 sistered on to it.

As for taking on water that ends up under the v-berth, I'd go to those cleats first, those aren't original and if they weren't done right you're looking at wet decks. Next I'd check the ports very carefully, those suckers can leak and the water stay between the deck and the headliner. Check to see if you have any moisture in the shelves, even all the way forward and aft. Do you anchor? I bring a lot of water in with my anchor rode but that's obviously salt water.

Good luck with the rudder. You've already had good luck just finding it and you have a good baseline with the recentely clean bottom. You should come out of this fine. Rita P still has the aluminum castings for the rudder and tiller ends. I have a little nylon shim between them so I can tighten them to have no slop without stressing the castings.

[Robcooper0767]

After doing side by side photo lookee, I'm definitely doing the PVC kit, I'm sure the 4's rings are not pristine so getting a little blow-by. Like the old MG I used to have, the PCV kit is an easy and logical upgrade to make a closed system, getting rid of that oily smell. Might do dipstick just for convenience eventually, but gotta do the PCV to try to get that smell out the dorade, where it's supposed to go!

Can you give the rookie a bit more explanation, photos probably impossible, of the hole in the tabbing......where? how much clearance from the floor of the vee berth? Not familiar with the "tabbing" term.......like I said, "rookie". Wouldn't mind the hole for a fix, am I causing more harm than good if I only have what I think is a glassed piece (I'll re-check). The forward bilge is always Bone Dry, and since it's the mast base, should I leave well enough alone and not introduce a waterway to the aft bilge from the vee berth. If I do, and the forward bilge stays wet(ter).....Mast base problem vs hand scooping some water.......But, I do want to hear more/see photos if possible of your vee berth drain.

Luckily, when I had the boat surveyed the only moisture the meter picked up was at one of the stancions, which is why I had the deck hardware remounted..thought they also did the cleats, but I'm having doubts, so I'll redo them. I've checked the ports, and don't see any shelves at all, but I've got a leaky port cabin window that does exactly what you describe, stays between the headliner and travels aft to a PO screwhole near the chart table. Cabin window reseal is also on the wish list. Understand that Catalina gasket material is available and can be used (true?) I have Lewmar ports. Maybe removing and resealing all the ports should be on a repair list too.. Haven't anchored, and anchor was in the lazerette when I bought it....left it there.

[Robcooper0767]

Am I stating the obvious if I say that just drilling a low hole allows water to run under the liner midships freely since the liner at the head is obviously raised? Also, since Rita P has a mod that definitely sounds like it keeps water far away from the wooden part of the mast compression post, you probably avoid any issues. How wet does the compression post bilge get, if at all?
Good advice, I'm definitely on a very steep learning curve, as all can obviously tell.

[stickboy]

I'll get some pictures today. Someone is coming by to look at her. Mixed emotions.

[Robcooper0767]

No question. I did my breakout when I was figuring what I wanted in a sailboat, speed, performance, look, headroom (wife is 5'10") and I'm 6'. Didn't want to hunch over and wanted fast. Love the lines and look of the P30. Classic, yes the "old design" look, but it still makes me smile when I look at her. Keep telling the wife that someday, a 34, 35, or 36 would be just the bomb for more creature comforts, but that is years away. Good luck with your decision.

[stickboy]

Well, I frittered away much of the day. Put a couple of cushions on Rita P to show her a little better. The people are coming down from a wooden 41 footer and haven't locked in on a particular model, they're just looking at any boat they can get on. They didn't love the A4, their loss.

Anyway, after charging the camera battery for a while I just went out and took a couple of shots of the v-berth drain. As the P30 guys know, this is a blind spot, you can't see it due to the water tank but it's a pretty big space. The first shot prompted "Oh! I've been looking for those Vice-Grips! The second shot was similar but I can't get a grip on the sunblock tube so I'll have to get back to that. So here's your pic of the hole that drains the v-berth into the bilge, no extra charge for the scale-providing sun block. Right above the sun block you can see the tabbing slightly pulled away and behing the depth transducer you can see where I cleaned the bulkhead and hull and re-tabbed it.

Attached Files

•  IMG_05841.JPG   154.06K   68 downloads

[Robcooper0767]

Stickboy,
Thanks for the photo. Couldn't make heads or tails at first but I think I'm seeing the sunblock "stuck inside" the actual drain...is that what I'm seeing?

I just got back from a week in Western Michigan...in-laws, Thanksgiving......enough said!, but right before I left I found a "treasure" I'd forgotten about. I had the boat surveyed and the photos around the rudder mount showed the same "surface crack" as the post storm. I'm going to post both sets with the writeup by the surveyor for folks to look at. I think it might be a worthwhile investment to call Tidewater Marina here in Havre de Grace and see what it would cost for a Stern Inspection. I'm sure it'll be a shocker, but I'll try to crawl in and get some closeup photos for the "inside rudder tube" shot. I still think I'm ok structurally.......
The more I think about the PCV add-on, and my old MG, I'm convinced that will be under a $100 investment worth it's weight in gold. The idea of crankcase gasses from an open tube being positioned over the spark arrestor intake screen is pretty nasty, especially on 3/4 throttle and an older engine. Can't wait to get that on and see if that helps as much as I think it will.
R
Need to get my butt in gear and winterize the engine..I'm so far behind. That damn storm put a dent in everything.

[stickboy]

Stickboy,
Thanks for the photo. Couldn't make heads or tails at first but I think I'm seeing the sunblock "stuck inside" the actual drain...is that what I'm seeing?

Yep, you've got it. Did you click on the thumbnail, the photo shows up pretty big for me. In Rita P it's not just a hole drilled, there's a space in the tabbing making a pretty big passage (big enough for a tube of sunscreen!). But I think you should be able to drill a hole through there easy enough. Start high and work your way down toward the hull, not the other way around This might be another good opportunity for the webcam trick, it's easy access with your hands but hard to see.

[Robcooper0767]

How thick is the tabbing to drill through? I don't have to go all the way to the forward (mast) bilge with a "hole maker" I hope. I just have to get through the wall there and it's a void under the midships (head, sink) area, right?
Also, I asked in earlier thread, does this make the forward bilge "wet", so I have to make sure my mast support is not wood, but glass, or aluminum to have the support be "out of water" that drains there?
Any idea why Pearson chose not to have a drain in the vee berth? Would venture to guess a PO put yours in for same reason I'm having to deal with.

[Robcooper0767]

Glad you found the Vise Grips.....ha ha!

[Ajax]

How thick is the tabbing to drill through? I don't have to go all the way to the forward (mast) bilge with a "hole maker" I hope. I just have to get through the wall there and it's a void under the midships (head, sink) area, right?
Also, I asked in earlier thread, does this make the forward bilge "wet", so I have to make sure my mast support is not wood, but glass, or aluminum to have the support be "out of water" that drains there?
Any idea why Pearson chose not to have a drain in the vee berth? Would venture to guess a PO put yours in for same reason I'm having to deal with.

The area may have been isolated for the express purpose of keeping the base of the compression post from sitting in water, or it may have simply been an oversight. Be careful not to drill at an angle and poke a hole in the hull accidentally! Stickboy's "rectangle" opening looks like it may have been done with a Fein Multimaster tool or something. I can't see how you could get any other kind of tool in there.

Depending on your weight distribution in the boat, water could pudding in the forward bilge area. If you keep weight aft, the water will continue to run aft, into the main bilge area and get pumped out. You may consider installing that "nuisance pump" in the forward bilge to keep moving the water aft, and keep the compression post dry.

[Robcooper0767]

Ajax and Stickboy,
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm gonna work with seeing if I can halt the water intrusion, deal with manually getting rid of water at first (either hand pump or just plain bailing). It's more of a nuisance right now, but overworking the issue is not the answer! I've got to get the rudder/structural issue determined/fixed, do the PCV for sure, check and rebed as necessary, install new shore power receptacle, replace broken galley sink plastic tube (right under sink, I got to aggressive with it and it snapped off in my hand! - and so on....oh yeah, I wanted to prep and paint the topsides this winter (blue to white - no small job I probably won't get to!), so I think I'll stop adding to the list of repairs and "want to's". If I can't find the water intrusion, then, it's time for some thought, but the current bone dry forward bilge shouldn't be compromised.........so might not want to mess with moving a problem from one area to another!.
Cheers

[jc172528]

Their purpose is to keep the shackle on the guy (brace for you upside down Aussies Kiwis) out of the jaw of the pole (where it may jam).

Had to fix that, it's just not right...

[stickboy]

Hey Rob, just to clear up one little detail, there is no seperation between the two bilge access holes. Water flows freely between the mast and engine. Also, can you get a good pic of the area I tool the photo? There's a chance you have a passageway for water there that's just clogged.

[Ajax]

Got all my new lower shrouds this week. Shiny! Can't wait to plug 'em in.

[stickboy]

Got all my new lower shrouds this week. Shiny! Can't wait to plug 'em in.

Oooooo, nice!! All of lowers!?! At one time you considered picking away at them, this is great!! Will you install them with the mast up?

[Ajax]

Yes, all lowers so far. This is considered "picking away at them" otherwise, I'd have the uppers and forestay/backstay as well. Yes, I'll install them with the mast up, one at a time. I had actually replaced one lower already, a couple of months ago. It went very smoothly, so I have no worries.

I think replacing uppers and the forestay/backstay with the mast up will be more tricky. I may take the boat over to Casa Rio marina, and use a crane or cherry picker or something.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, just use some halyards and crank on the tension...no worries. I know that when I was last at the boat you had some frozen turnbuckles but you can easily overcome those issues...Remember, you are replacing them so if you can get even one side of the turnbuckle loose, you are unloading the rig for the halyard to hold it while you replace the standing part.

[toddster]

Yes, all lowers so far. This is considered "picking away at them" otherwise, I'd have the uppers and forestay/backstay as well. Yes, I'll install them with the mast up, one at a time. I had actually replaced one lower already, a couple of months ago. It went very smoothly, so I have no worries.

I think replacing uppers and the forestay/backstay with the mast up will be more tricky. I may take the boat over to Casa Rio marina, and use a crane or cherry picker or something.

Nah, I replaced my forestay with just a halyard cranked tight to de-tension and stand-in for it. That's how it said to do it in the destruction manual. I did run a little short of halyards in the process, (one for the mast, one for my ass, one for the new rigging) which required an extra trip up the mast.

[Ajax]

Looks like I have more re-bedding to do.

The bilge area that Robcooper has been having issues with is now plaguing me. I had several things going on, which really added to the confusion:

Overboard discharge valve in the vicinity. Wasn't sure if it was weeping.
Abandoned depth finder transducer thru-hull in the vicinity. Wasn't sure if it was weeping.
Accidentally topped off the fresh water tank. Water dripped from the fill fitting until I used enough water to lower the level.
Ambient temperatures, rain and high humidity have caused the entire bilge area to sweat like a whore in church, making it difficult to localize any water ingress.

In the end, I'm pretty sure that I isolated the water ingress to the anchor chain locker draining into the area. There is a very small hole drilled through a wooden stringer way up under the v-berth. I observed water running downhill from that, into this isolated bilge area. I pulled the insulated panel I made for the anchor chain locker and found a dripping, sweaty mess. The pulpit and running lights need to be re-bedded. Also, rain water gets in through the huge hawsepipe. I should really block it with a Nerf football or something when it's not in use.

I did taste the water in the bilge and it's fresh, not salty, so there is good news in that.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, the Catalina 30 has the same problem. You have the anchor locker built into the deck mold, and then the hull to deal with. It rains into the locker and seeps in between and ends up in the bilge.

I dunno what was originally there, but what I did was drilled it all out, with a widened hole just barely larger than the OD of a piece of schedule 40 PVC pipe..maybe 3/4"??? Then, I 5200'd it all in. The ID was 1/2" if I recall..much bigger than original drain, which I think was a piece of brass tubing that had failed long ago. Specific to the C-30, they often put the drain tube about 1/2" above the bottom of the anchor locker ( ), so the stupid thing would not drain all of the water either...Since I was boring a hole thru the damn boat, I moved the hole down at the same time..less angle to avoid too much damage on the hull side, but closer to the bottom of the anchor locker on the inside. Dunno if this info will help you or not. I think the flexible PVC helps with the flexing in between the various boat parts (hull, anchor locker, cabin liner fiberglass) compared to whatever was there originally.

[Robcooper0767]

Whoa! Sorry if I jinxed the lot! @Stickboy - I'll become a circus rubberman sometime this winter/spring season and see if I have a plugged hole.
@ All, I just met a fellow P-30 owner of 20 years down at Quantico, VA and he invited me aboard.....He had no water resident in his v berth AND has a drainhole there that goes to the mast bilge, onto the main bilge. He has the same leaking Port side cabin window, but he's done some nice upgrades. Just put in a shiny new rebuilt diesel ($2900 - and installed it himself. Made a real nice dodger and designed and made a shade cover over the stern rail and above the cockpit almost to the end of the boom. This guy had a CDI and a Edson wheel (on the boat when he bought it 20 years ago). Overall, a nice P-30 that he enjoyed with his kids and now with his wife. Left him my card to keep in touch but haven't heard from him.
Since I had this rudder issue......what are your thoughts on wheel conversion on P-30? probably alot of negatives, room, headroom, performance......so, does it make any sense? My wife likes the idea since the "tiller concept" of steering still gets her uncomfortable.
Merry Christmas to all in case we don't "talk".
R

[Ajax]

Whoa! Sorry if I jinxed the lot! @Stickboy - I'll become a circus rubberman sometime this winter/spring season and see if I have a plugged hole.
@ All, I just met a fellow P-30 owner of 20 years down at Quantico, VA and he invited me aboard.....He had no water resident in his v berth AND has a drainhole there that goes to the mast bilge, onto the main bilge. He has the same leaking Port side cabin window, but he's done some nice upgrades. Just put in a shiny new rebuilt diesel ($2900 - and installed it himself. Made a real nice dodger and designed and made a shade cover over the stern rail and above the cockpit almost to the end of the boom. This guy had a CDI and a Edson wheel (on the boat when he bought it 20 years ago). Overall, a nice P-30 that he enjoyed with his kids and now with his wife. Left him my card to keep in touch but haven't heard from him.
Since I had this rudder issue......what are your thoughts on wheel conversion on P-30? probably alot of negatives, room, headroom, performance......so, does it make any sense? My wife likes the idea since the "tiller concept" of steering still gets her uncomfortable.
Merry Christmas to all in case we don't "talk".
R

NO! Blasphemer, thou shalt not convert to the wheel!!

Sigh...it's your boat, do what you will with it, but the P30 is really well balanced and provides great feedback through the tiller, plus it folds up out of the way at anchor. A wheel and pedestal will hog space in the cockpit.

[Hike, Bitches!]

NO! Blasphemer, thou shalt not convert to the wheel!!

Sigh...it's your boat, do what you will with it, but the P30 is really well balanced and provides great feedback through the tiller, plus it folds up out of the way at anchor. A wheel and pedestal will hog space in the cockpit.

+1

[Innocent Bystander]

It comes down to choice and how you plan to use the boat. Below 30' a wheel is way more trouble than it is worth.

A tiller on a well balanced boat is a pleasure I would not put a wheel on a Pearson 30 but if it meets your needs, the go ahead.

[Robcooper0767]

Thought I'd pulse the crowd. Fleeting thought, and I actually enjoy the feel and responsiveness of the tiller. But, with the latest debacle, wanted to get a feel from the group. Validated.........The wheel is more for "pleasure cruising" and I think, comes with too many compromises for this boat. The length of the tiller does get in the way a bit, but, with the lack of a "T" cockpit and having to refit some/all of the power systems............it'll just stay a fleeting thought. Thanks for the input all!

[Hike, Bitches!]

RC, Since they are balanced pretty well...you could choose to shorten the tiller a bit if you want (for more room when sailing)...but it simply folds out of the way when not sailing. My 4KSB Catalina 30 has a tiller..When I built the new tiller, I actually lengthened it about 9" to work around other issues (being able to sit in front of the winches on the high side coaming to see the tell tales with a tiller extension.) - and then I went and moved the winches back a foot after that. - but no matter..I can't see putting a wheel in the same space without major compromises.

[sailpower]

I have had one of each; a 1979 with wheel and a 1972 with tiller.

The factory wheel on a P 30 is mounted pretty far forward in the cockpit similar to the older 36/39.

Personally I liked the wheel boat for cruising but the tiller boat was much more responsive.

[Ajax]

Spent the last few weeks breaking 40 year old hardware to remove the bow pulpit for rebedding. I've been working alone, so I've made about 500 trips between stuffing myself into the anchor locker and running up to the foredeck.

Flathead screws...why? Just, why??

Finally finished the job yesterday. Butyl tape, chamfered bolt holes, stainless steel hardware. The pulpit is actually firm and stable now.

[Slick470]

Nice Ajax... since you have the rhythm down... want to do mine too? I'm pretty sure you know the combo...

[boomer]

A sturdy pulpit is always reassuring and good having that task behind you.

Probably don't have to tell you....

To expedite certain tasks, enlisting the assistance of a crew member or friend, can shave up to two thirds of the time vs tackling an operation singlehanded.

[Ajax]

Good help is hard to find, Boomer.
I would have asked one of my daughters, but between work and college, they are awfully busy.

[kent_island_sailor]

My son is getting old enough to be quite useful. Just yesterday he helped install a thru-hull for the bilge pump
This was needed because the existing system that dumped into the sink drain turned into a siphon and filled the boat up instad of pumping out. Quite annyoing to get up to go to the head and step in 6 inches of water

[Beer Fueled Mayhem]

It is amazing what you can do with vise grips and duct tape. I also have to do almost all the work alone. Up down up down up down.

[Ajax]

Success. Not a drop in the anchor locker or bilge after a night of heavy rain.

[hard aground]

Good help is hard to find, Boomer.
I would have asked one of my daughters, but between work and college, they are awfully busy.

I would have helped. All you needed to do was wait 'til September and get me a round trip flight. And crab and rum. I might have even agreed to be the anchor locked guy. No chance that we would have done the Titanic "top of the world" pose though.

[Hike, Bitches!]

nice ajax..these things are all on my list too. I'd like to do them while the lifelines are off the boat...if I keep them off the boat, I might force myself to complete the dyneema lifeline update I have planned. Might as well pull the pulpits while I am at it.

[Shaggy]

A sturdy pulpit is always reassuring and good having that task behind you.

Probably don't have to tell you....

To expedite certain tasks, enlisting the assistance of a crew member or friend, can shave up to two thirds of the time vs tackling an operation singlehanded.

Yea but then you gotta buy more beer and have less time to enjoy it...

[Robcooper0767]

Ajax,
Noticed your vang...want to install one. Can you advise on what you got (Garhauer?? they are cheaper - $-wise). How did you mount it? Photos and some info would be appreciated. Thanks!
Happy Easter to all,
Rob

Rookie Question to all:
I was randomly checking screws in my companionway cover and metal slide and they needed a good 1/4 to 1/2 turn to snug. Noticed my Bow Rail screw heads would turn (without having a wrench inside on the nuts to maintain or tighten). Then noticed most of the genoa track screws would turn as well (same, without securing the nuts below).
Question: I know it's cooler, and with warmer weather we'll have expansion, but since I had all the deck hardware removed and remounted (with new silicon) just last Spring, Is it that all deck hardware screws need to be "tightened a bit", or is it normal not to snug these down to allow for expansion and contraction? I snugged all the companionway screws and the metal runner, and the dorade box (should I loosen them to where they were)
I don't want to overdo anything and cause overpressure/stress when the weather warms and things expand.
Some advice would be appreciated.
Cheers to All,

Rob

[Robcooper0767]

Second Question:
Noticed my Vee Berth Forward Hatch, which has a telescoping rod on it......the mount screwed into the Hatch looks like an inverted "T" (upside down T) with a very short "center leg". One full side of the part of the "T" actually prevents my hatch from completely closing, and seems to act as a wedge between the hatch and the fiberglass raised lip on the deck. Is this normal to keep some "air space" for some positive airflow through the boat, or did a PO just do it without really thinking about it?
Third Question:
Don't like my Rule Bilge Pump. It replaced (last year) a much lower profile pump that really took all the water out of a shallow bilge, but didn't have an "auto" setting. The Rule leaves more water than I'd like (yes, the boat leaks in rain, damn leaky seals on large cabin windows!). Any advice on a very low profile solution? I guess I could put in a bilge pump not in the bilge, with a sensor/hose, but think those are expensive......
Ordering the PCV Kit from Indigo....tired of the blowby....
Rob

Thanks to the response on the Shaking off the Rust site, recommended Whale Pump..will look into it!

Rob

[hard aground]

Rob, if you are looking for a vang the Garhauer is a nice piece. Just give them a call/ send them an email, they will get you to do specific measurements and they will build it to spec. Then once shipped you can just bolt it on.

[Robcooper0767]

Thanks. I think that's on the list this year!
Rob

[Ajax]

Hi Rob,

Yes, this thread is still active, I just need to actually do some work in order to have anything worth posting!

I have successfully completed routine engine maintenance- impeller, plugs, wires, cap, rotor, oil, and thermostat. The distributor developed an alarming squeal that I was able to correct by lubricating the innards. The breaker plate, I think.

I have all new lower shrouds to install, a tiller pilot and some small fiberglass jobs. Once temperatures are right for epoxy work, I'll have more to post.

[Robcooper0767]

Hey Ajax,
I'll keep the responses here vs the Shaking site. Didn't see any input on the "loose screws/deck mounted stuff". What's your take?
Hey Stickboy.....you out there??? What's your take on the deck hardware.
Here's the situation:
Copied from above...
I was randomly checking screws in my companionway cover and metal slide and they needed a good 1/4 to 1/2 turn to snug. Noticed my Bow Rail screw heads would turn (without having a wrench inside on the nuts to maintain or tighten). Then noticed most of the genoa track screws would turn as well (same, without securing the nuts below).
Question: I know it's cooler, and with warmer weather we'll have expansion, but since I had all the deck hardware removed and remounted (with new silicon) just last Spring, Is it that all deck hardware screws need to be "tightened a bit", or is it normal not to snug these down to allow for expansion and contraction? I snugged all the companionway screws and the metal runner, and the dorade box (should I loosen them to where they were)
I don't want to overdo anything and cause overpressure/stress when the weather warms and things expand.
Some advice would be appreciated.

C'mon all.....feel free to pile on!!!

Rob

[Robcooper0767]

Ajax,
Let me know when you're heading to Bacon's anytime soon via here or email. I'll see if we can coordinate and have a beer!

[Ishmael]

Hey Ajax,
I'll keep the responses here vs the Shaking site. Didn't see any input on the "loose screws/deck mounted stuff". What's your take?
Hey Stickboy.....you out there??? What's your take on the deck hardware.
Here's the situation:
Copied from above...
I was randomly checking screws in my companionway cover and metal slide and they needed a good 1/4 to 1/2 turn to snug. Noticed my Bow Rail screw heads would turn (without having a wrench inside on the nuts to maintain or tighten). Then noticed most of the genoa track screws would turn as well (same, without securing the nuts below).
Question: I know it's cooler, and with warmer weather we'll have expansion, but since I had all the deck hardware removed and remounted (with new silicon) just last Spring, Is it that all deck hardware screws need to be "tightened a bit", or is it normal not to snug these down to allow for expansion and contraction? I snugged all the companionway screws and the metal runner, and the dorade box (should I loosen them to where they were)
I don't want to overdo anything and cause overpressure/stress when the weather warms and things expand.
Some advice would be appreciated.

C'mon all.....feel free to pile on!!!

Rob

I go around the boat a couple times a year and tighten all the screws holding windows and hatch frames that have loosened off. I have no idea why, they are all supposedly locked in place with bedding compound, but I can get a half-turn on most of them every time. Beats the hell out of me.

[Ajax]

Rob,

Simply sailing the boat, combined with seasonal temperature variations, will cause hardware to back out. Like Ish says, periodically check and re-tighten things.

Also, stop using silicone to bed hardware. It's awful, useless stuff. Use butyl tape, and follow the procedures on this site:
http://www.pbase.com...g/boat_projects

If you don't want to order butyl tape from that web site, you can buy black butyl tape from NAPA. Its a black, windshield sealant that comes in a flat box, as a coiled up snake. Maine Sail's stuff is white, and is much nicer. If you follow Maine Sail's procedures, the stuff is good for 20 years. Put the messy tubes of silicone and caulk away.

I'll hit you up next time I'm heading to Bacon's. You can visit my boat to see if there are any ideas that might help you.

[Cavelamb]

Rob,

Simply sailing the boat, combined with seasonal temperature variations, will cause hardware to back out. Like Ish says, periodically check and re-tighten things.

Also, stop using silicone to bed hardware. It's awful, useless stuff. Use butyl tape, and follow the procedures on this site:
http://www.pbase.com...g/boat_projects

If you don't want to order butyl tape from that web site, you can buy black butyl tape from NAPA. Its a black, windshield sealant that comes in a flat box, as a coiled up snake. Maine Sail's stuff is white, and is much nicer. If you follow Maine Sail's procedures, the stuff is good for 20 years. Put the messy tubes of silicone and caulk away.

Sing it, Brother!

[stickboy]

Hey Ajax,
I'll keep the responses here vs the Shaking site. Didn't see any input on the "loose screws/deck mounted stuff". What's your take?
Hey Stickboy.....you out there??? What's your take on the deck hardware.
Here's the situation:
Copied from above...
I was randomly checking screws in my companionway cover and metal slide and they needed a good 1/4 to 1/2 turn to snug. Noticed my Bow Rail screw heads would turn (without having a wrench inside on the nuts to maintain or tighten). Then noticed most of the genoa track screws would turn as well (same, without securing the nuts below).
Question: I know it's cooler, and with warmer weather we'll have expansion, but since I had all the deck hardware removed and remounted (with new silicon) just last Spring, Is it that all deck hardware screws need to be "tightened a bit", or is it normal not to snug these down to allow for expansion and contraction? I snugged all the companionway screws and the metal runner, and the dorade box (should I loosen them to where they were)
I don't want to overdo anything and cause overpressure/stress when the weather warms and things expand.
Some advice would be appreciated.

C'mon all.....feel free to pile on!!!

Rob

I'm here, just really distracted at this time.

[Robcooper0767]

Ish, Ajax, Cave...thanks, just what I needed......I'll go butyl..Question:  Went to site and it's Compass Marine, butyl is gray.  Maine Sail white butyl..doesn't come up in a google search, help?

 

Ish, you mentioned windows, hatches......so, not surprised about bow pulpit, genoa tracks?   Sounds like you all think this is normal......? just to be sure.,

 

I'm trying to upload a file (word) with photos of rudder/hull exit options.  Found a P-30 with a modified/strenghtened exit vs what mine and Ajax's look like...

 

What's the trick to uploading stuff.....obviously the victim of a very small brain...

 

Cheers,
Rob

[Ishmael]

Ish, Ajax, Cave...thanks, just what I needed......I'll go butyl..Question:  Went to site and it's Compass Marine, butyl is gray.  Maine Sail white butyl..doesn't come up in a google search, help?

 

Ish, you mentioned windows, hatches......so, not surprised about bow pulpit, genoa tracks?   Sounds like you all think this is normal......? just to be sure.,

 

I'm trying to upload a file (word) with photos of rudder/hull exit options.  Found a P-30 with a modified/strenghtened exit vs what mine and Ajax's look like...

 

What's the trick to uploading stuff.....obviously the victim of a very small brain...

 

Cheers,
Rob

Go to More Reply Options, bottom right when you post. It gives you upload options there.

[Robcooper0767]

So, here is first file of "upgraded" rudder, and a photo of Ajax's, that has the similar rudder/hull exit

 

 P30 Rudder-Hull-Keel_#1_05APR13.ppt   912.5K   27 downloads

[Robcooper0767]

Photo #2, other view of hull/rudder

Attached Files

•  P30 Rudder-Hull-Keel_#2_05APR13.ppt   858.5K   16 downloads

[Robcooper0767]

Keel bottom, Survey photo, but now, looks to be more "gashed".  See notes on attachment

Attached Files

•  P30 Rudder-Hull-Keel_#3_05APR13.ppt   571K   15 downloads

[Robcooper0767]

So, what do you all think of the "modified"?  worth strengthening to look like photo #1?

Definitely will be repairing cracking....

Keel bottom advice?

 

How about the Compass Marine vs "Maine Sail" question above?

Thanks

Rob

[Robcooper0767]

And again, thanks all for the constant help and training!!
Rob

[Innocent Bystander]

So, what do you all think of the "modified"?  worth strengthening to look like photo #1?
Definitely will be repairing cracking....
Keel bottom advice?
 
How about the Compass Marine vs "Maine Sail" question above?

Thanks
Rob

I would guess the size of the "improved" version is due to accommodating new, larger rudder bearings and then fairing the resulting bump out. OK. Works but adds drag and looks "tacked on" IMHO. I think it is strong and a reasonable and cost effective approach but I've never been a fan of the P-30 rudder and would consider using a rebuild of the tube/bearing an opportunity to consider a modern rudder replacement. Granted, what is there works but rudder design has come a long way.

On the keel, grind out the torn up glass and relaminate using epoxy. Consider Kevlar cloth if you plan to use the keel as a depthfinder but standard polyester cloth is a easier to work with.

[Robcooper0767]

You may right on the oversized, and the writeup under the photo is a copy of his wording, so not sure.  He noted the improvement elsewhere as "strengthening".  Because of cost, I have to stay with existing rudder and just redo bearings/rudder cap/fix rudder tube hull exit.

 

Roger on the drag and adding strength of the "resign" (if I read you correctly). 

 

I could also just repair the cracking and add a small amount of "strength" around the existing tube (not to the degree of the "full remodel".  I can make sure the tube exit is strong with no weak spots/vertical cracks or worn issues, and keep the original design, to maintain both look and drag iAW original design plan.  Basically, what I am describing is a small increase in exterior diameter in the original design concept for the strenghening.  Need to make a decision to get rudder back on soon.  What do you think?

 

Just what I needed to know about the keel....Thanks!

[steele]

For butyl tape the stuff mainsail sells is grey, it looks fine on my white boat against metal parts. I have some white as well purchased at an RV store. It is not as good as it is not as elastic.

[Robcooper0767]

Ajax and Stickboy,

Just did a quick check on new bushings, washer and bronze rudder cap.  I ordered the 2.354 not the 2.380 based on all my checking with a "manual" (regular ruler) type micrometer.

I can get the spacer/washer on, but the rudder cap and the bushings won't fit over, unless I run sandpaper, which I haven't done yet.  Called Rudy at DR Marine and he said that his records show 2.380 before 1975, and 2.354 after 1975.  My boat is 1974, hull 644,

Since Ajax, your is hull 255, you should be stainless vs aluminum.....what size did you end up with and did you have to work with sandpaper to get it to go.

Rudy said the bushings should be tight, but not loose (a fine line) and should give 1/2 turn on the shaft.

The spacer can get shoved on, but it ain't turning......

Rudy suggested going to a garage to have them mic the shaft and be sure of the size.

Any other P-30ers can help with this sizing issue if you please.

Rob

[Robcooper0767]

Finally got a digital micrometer, issue solved.  The rudder shaft is 2.354 (basically).  Checked top then every 5 inches and same to within .002 (2.356), so not bad I think..  The Rudder Cap (new bronze one) is not quite 2.354/5 all around.  The Head to toe part is about 2.252.

 

So, Question:  Should I try to hone out the bronze cap with some sandpaper, or sand down the rudder (can stainless be sanded down?  I know it can be filed!) to fit the cap that isn't quite perfectly round......I noticed the Delrin bushings and washers weren't perfectly round either, but I can quickly sand those interiors at the "high" spots.

 

Rob

[Robcooper0767]

Thanks,

I'll get the Maine Sail product......

Thanks Guys.

R

[Hike, Bitches!]

Rob, I have grey butyl too..i found it at my local not-a-chain hardware store in the plumbing section. I JUST finished up my first $6 roll I bought about 3 years ago rebedding stanchions this weekend.

 

Employees in places like Lowe's & Home Depot look at you funny when you say the word butyl..The dudes at Dyson's knew exactly where it was. I'll be happy to pick up a roll or two and mail it to you.

[Ajax]

Rob-

 

Sorry for the confusion I caused with the color of the tape.

Follow IB's advice to repair the gash in your keel.

 

It looks like your boat has hit the bottom hard at some point in it's life, and hard enough to have touched the rudder somehow as well, causing the exit tube cracks. It doesn't look bad though, and I believe that this stuff can be repaired back to orginal strength.

 

I'm glad you're taking a positive attitude, and fixing her up. There were only around 1200 P30's built, so I love to see them saved and cherished.

[stickboy]

Finally got a digital micrometer, issue solved.  The rudder shaft is 2.354 (basically).  Checked top then every 5 inches and same to within .002 (2.356), so not bad I think..  The Rudder Cap (new bronze one) is not quite 2.354/5 all around.  The Head to toe part is about 2.252.

 

So, Question:  Should I try to hone out the bronze cap with some sandpaper, or sand down the rudder (can stainless be sanded down?  I know it can be filed!) to fit the cap that isn't quite perfectly round......I noticed the Delrin bushings and washers weren't perfectly round either, but I can quickly sand those interiors at the "high" spots.

 

Rob

OK, so you know you have the correct parts. I'd start with some 800 sandpaper on both the shaft and the fittings to make sure they are clean, no burrs, no gunk. I've done this on another P30 rudder shaft, use the sandpaper like you are polishing shoes (you remember polishing shoes, right?) so you can have the paper actually touching half the circumference of the shaft and sanding around it, not along the length of it. You don't need much, you want them to be a tight as possible. They will go on hard since the slightest  bit of misalignment will wedge so small progress is still progress.

[Robcooper0767]

HB,

Thanks for the offer, might take you up on it.  Went to the Dyson website.  The smallest width they show is 4" wide x75' long.  Maine Sail product is described as "butyl bedding tape, It is gray in color, 1/16" thick and 1/2" wide and a 50' roll."  Did you find one at Dysons comparable to size as Maine Sails, but not listed in the Dyson E-Catalog?  If so, any problems trimming it down?

 

All:

Question still out there to get this rudder done once and for all.:  Should I try to hone out the bronze cap with some sandpaper (I may try to get it machined to fit the top of the existing rudder shaft), or file down the rudder shaft to fit inside the existing bronze cap that isn't quite perfectly round?

The Delrin bushings and washers weren't perfectly round either, but I can quickly sand those interiors at the "high" spots, I hope.

 

Sunday:  1.  I cut out a larger hole for the new Shore Power plug (first time I cut into the fiberglass myself, glad that's behind me!).  Need to cut another to mount the new raymarine speed/temp log (once I decide where I want it).  2.  Sanded off the old finish on the companionway hatches and the companionway teak rails - need to varnish.  3. Filed out the top of the rudder tube to get the new Delrin bushing to seat in there (old epoxy), rudder tube didn't seem to have any damage that I could see, hanging upside down in the STBD locker.  4.  ORDERED the PCV Kit from Indigo, will arrive Wednesday!!  Excited about no blue haze/stink in the interior - hope the vertical valve allows for minimal carb adjustment.  Had to send photos to Tom and get a few extra pieces due to layout/tube for mechanical fuel pump setup on P30.

 

Where do you guys have your Marine Radio mounted?  The boatyard I bought it from put the radio mount below the level of the port cabin window, near the chart table.  Unfortunately, the port window leaks! and the mounting screw holes are a Wonderful place for water to come out of from the leaking window, right onto the radio.  Need to move the Radio mounts above the window level (cabin roof - interior) above the "leak line".

 

Ajax, Even though my wife gives me shit about "why did you buy a boat?!", I do love the P30 lines.....she sure is pretty and makes me smile...for an old girl!  A fellow in the yard came by, he has a mid/late 80s Catalina 31and first thing he said when he was up on the ladder watching me cut the new shore plug was:  "the P30 has such nice lines, she sure is a pretty boat".........made me smile. I feel the same way about bringing her back to life.....but, damn, my wallet hates it!

 

Roger IB and your take on the keel, thanks for the advice and direction.......one of the reasons I asked the local how much he would charge me to sand down the topside to be ready to paint was because some of the PO obviously docked using the braille method, sailed that way too it seems.....

 

TOPSIDE Paint, Roll and Tip Method:  If I do the Topside, What is the recommended rolling direction?  I'm going to assume vertical roll with horizontal tip, but I've been wrong before....Advice.

 

Rob

[Robcooper0767]

HB, I used to go to my Aunt's beachhouse on Point Lookout growing up in the 60's.  Back then, it was "far away" with not so many folks....Beautiful area, and the sailing must ROCK!.

R

[Robcooper0767]

Thanks Stickboy!  saw this after I posted my latest dissertation.....I need to learn to parse info and talk less....I just have so many questions about what to do...volumes!

Printed out your instructions,

R