1045 replies to this topic

[Ajax]

I managed to fix the "flush to holding tank" problem last night. It was two things- first, the Y valve is finicky about the exact position you put it in. Second, flow was impeded by the position of the hose to the tank. Just moving it a little, brought a huge rush of water into it. The hose is too long, I'm going to buy a new, shorter piece that should eliminate any flow problems.

[MoeAlfa]

I managed to fix the "flush to holding tank" problem last night. It was two things- first, the Y valve is finicky about the exact position you put it in. Second, flow was impeded by the position of the hose to the tank. Just moving it a little, brought a huge rush of water into it. The hose is too long, I'm going to buy a new, shorter piece that should eliminate any flow problems.

No shit?

[Ajax]

<snicker> Funny guy.

[Greever]

+1 on new odor safe hose.

Nomo smells!

[Steam Flyer]

+1 on new odor safe hose.

Nomo smells!

Agreed.

Expensive but worth every penny.

FB- Doug

[PNW Matt B]

There's a short article in this month's Good Old Boat on building an activated charcoal filter for your vent line. I tend to think that with enough venting it's not a problem... but I can see the utility, too.

[Ajax]

My successful fireworks party this past weekend, shows that there's very little on the boat is screaming for immediate attention. I feel really good about the boat.

Next project is to replace the bilge pump discharge hose. The PO used ordinary garden hose and it's cracked and leaking.

[Ajax]

I'm posting these photos in the hope that Maine Sail will help me identify the manufacturer, and tell me whether there are any steps outside of the normal lapping procedure that I might need to follow. I have 2 tapered cone seacocks for the head system. They appear to be the same manufacturer, just two different sizes. Of course, if anyone else recognizes them, chime in.

Attached Files

•  2011-09-13_20-41-03_139.jpg   681.27K   32 downloads

[Ajax]

And another, this time with the yellow handle visible in the "open" position. The "T" handle screw on the left side apparently locks the yellow handle in position. It tightens down on the cone.

Attached Files

•  2011-09-13_20-41-40_583a.jpg   307.17K   6 downloads

[Maine Sail]

And another, this time with the yellow handle visible in the "open" position. The "T" handle screw on the left side apparently locks the yellow handle in position. It tightens down on the cone.

They are older Groco SV series seacocks. I don't know if Groco still supports them or not but they have a rubber "cone" which is really just expanded with the t-nut to expand the rubber and make them not leak when open or closed. They are not like a true traditional tapered cone even though they look like one. I have never been a huge fan of the SV series compared with a true bronze tapered cone seacock.

You can call Groco and see if they still have parts.

Here's a .pdf on the SV's..

Groco SV Series

[MisterMoon]

This boat turned up on our local Craigslist this weekend. Ajax's adventures sure have me thinking...

(Got to sell the powerboat first. Got to sell the powerboat first.... Got to sedate wife so she won't kill me!)

I have no connection to the seller, etc....

[steele]

Looks good for a turn-key boat, fair price if it is surveys well. The big cabin windows are a bit off, and I will never get used to the rudder on these things. Dont worry about the power boat, just buy the sailboat. As for your wife; like they say it easyer to appologize after than ask permision before.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, MaineSail already ID'ed them, but yeah, those are the older Grocos. I had an even older version of those on my boat (not the nice "T" handle to squish the rubber cone inside, but a PITA thumbscrew) and I don't think the nice yellow handle was even attached to the rubber cone inside on mine any longer, so you are probably still in OK shape. At the time (late 2008), someone, maybe even here, told me they thought Groco might still provide parts for them, but at $30/pop, why not just replace with marelon, or bronze if you think that is necessary, as time/hauling allows?

Hey..at least you don't still have the gate valves that belong on the side of your house..

Edit - speaking of marelon, I still haven't been up in the attic to check out my spares inventory..sorry...hope I am not holding you up...I'll try to remember to get up there in the next day or two.

edit #2 - mqnada, what are the details on your power boat?

[Ajax]

Maine-

Thanks very much for the details about my seacocks. If they were true, bronze cones I would keep them. When they begin to fail, I will definitely replace them with Marelon ball valves. Bummer...I was hoping they were bronze cones so that I could just lap them and return them to service.

Bitches- No, you're not holding me up. I want to do the job within a month or so.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, please explain "lapping"...is that some sort of bronze maintenance term?

Is it like lapping engine valves with chewed up edges?

[Hike, Bitches!]

Hey Ajax, if you wanna see another example of how someone like Maine Sail does thru-hulls..check out the work this guy did over on the Moyer forum.

http://www.moyermari...read.php?t=5716

[A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake]

Ajax, please explain "lapping"...is that some sort of bronze maintenance term?

Is it like lapping engine valves with chewed up edges?

HB -

Exactly the same - you put an abrasive compound on both contact surfaces, and rub 'em together until there's a smooth face and good fit on both.

[MisterMoon]

edit #2 - mqnada, what are the details on your power boat?

Don't laugh, but it's a 27' Tracker pontoon. I've had/have a buyer in VA who was supposed to pick it up this weekend, but his wife had to go into the hospital for unexpected surgery. I've still got non-refundable deposit money, but I have no idea if he's still going to finish the deal at this point. The boat is on consignment at a friend's boat dealership.

I do have sailboats, too.

[Kaptainkriz]

Go the cone!
(or is it the cone must go?)

Maine-

Thanks very much for the details about my seacocks. If they were true, bronze cones I would keep them. When they begin to fail, I will definitely replace them with Marelon ball valves. Bummer...I was hoping they were bronze cones so that I could just lap them and return them to service.

Bitches- No, you're not holding me up. I want to do the job within a month or so.

[Maine Sail]

Ajax, please explain "lapping"...is that some sort of bronze maintenance term?

Is it like lapping engine valves with chewed up edges?

Yes it is similar to lapping valves or lap fitting a prop to a shaft.


Here you go: Servicing Tapered Cone Seacocks

[Ajax]

edit #2 - mqnada, what are the details on your power boat?

Don't laugh, but it's a 27' Tracker pontoon Party Barge. I've had/have a buyer in VA who was supposed to pick it up this weekend, but his wife had to go into the hospital for unexpected surgery. I've still got non-refundable deposit money, but I have no idea if he's still going to finish the deal at this point. The boat is on consignment at a friend's boat dealership.

I do have sailboats, too.

Fixed it for you.

[Ajax]

Ok, my paranoia is rearing its head again. After seeing Mr. Bitches have to rebuild his shaft log with carbon fiber due to an eccentric prop shaft, I'm sensitive to any deviation from "perfect".

Question:
How much wobble, if any, is acceptable in the area where the shaft/stuffing box enters that huge, rubber boot on the shaft log (fiberglass tube in the hull)?

I have no vibration, no noise of any kind. I just see a tiny bit of wobble. I recorded it with my phone, and you can't even see it on video, but you'd be able to see it if you were physically present, that's how small it is. As usual, I was working alone. Sorry for any camera shake.

[Innocent Bystander]

Ajax. That's not bad. You will want to check shaft alignment in the Spring.

[Ajax]

Ok. Are you saying to normally check alignment in the spring, or did you see something?

[Innocent Bystander]

Ok. Are you saying to normally check alignment in the spring, or did you see something?

Enough vibe that you might want to check it but not enough to make it a priority. Alignment is not as precise as some would make you think as a little slop in the cutlass bearing, some fles in the stuffing box hose and the weight of the shaft and coupling can slightly preload the alignment. Are you hauling out for the winter or staying in?

If staying in, wait for a cool day before fighting the coupling bolts.

[Ajax]

I'm staying in for the winter. Bitches is coming up sometime in the near future to help me with a repair. I think the video is deceptive, so I'm going to have him look at it before I touch anything. Because it's dark down in the engine crawl space, phone camera limitations makes the video jumpy and also doesn't show the point of concern that I'm trying to describe.

[MisterMoon]

edit #2 - mqnada, what are the details on your power boat?

Don't laugh, but it's a 27' Tracker pontoon Party Barge. I've had/have a buyer in VA who was supposed to pick it up this weekend, but his wife had to go into the hospital for unexpected surgery. I've still got non-refundable deposit money, but I have no idea if he's still going to finish the deal at this point. The boat is on consignment at a friend's boat dealership.

I do have sailboats, too.

Fixed it for you.

LOL, you got me. I'll say in my defense it's the right boat for around here in the summer time when winds are 'consistently' 2-3 knots and variable.

[Ajax]

edit #2 - mqnada, what are the details on your power boat?

Don't laugh, but it's a 27' Tracker pontoon Party Barge. I've had/have a buyer in VA who was supposed to pick it up this weekend, but his wife had to go into the hospital for unexpected surgery. I've still got non-refundable deposit money, but I have no idea if he's still going to finish the deal at this point. The boat is on consignment at a friend's boat dealership.

I do have sailboats, too.

Fixed it for you.

LOL, you got me. I'll say in my defense it's the right boat for around here in the summer time when winds are 'consistently' 2-3 knots and variable.

Oh, I'm sure. Just teasing you man. It's just that whenever I see those things, I'm always reminded of Jabba the Hutt's slave barge in "Return of the Jedi".

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, I'll bring my feeler gauges when I come up...I got mine to 0.0015".

I am gonna try to bring Vitamin Sea (Smitty) too when I come up..I put a bug in his ear about an impending road trip yesterday.

[Ajax]

Ajax, I'll bring my feeler gauges when I come up...I got mine to 0.0015".

I am gonna try to bring Vitamin Sea (Smitty) too when I come up..I put a bug in his ear about an impending road trip yesterday.

Hey, that's cool. I'll take all the expert advice I can get. I don't understand though, exactly what are you measuring with the feeler guage?

[Hike, Bitches!]

We use the feeler gauge to align the prop shaft. You loosen the coupler bolts and mate the two pieces. The clearance should be the same all the way around, and if it isn't, you'll see a 'wobble', indicating it is out of line..when the clearance is the same all around the coupler, the wobble is gone. The adjustments are made at the engine mounts..someone over on the Moyer forum explained it to me as, "the tail wags the dog", meaning the tail (the prop shaft) is pre-set in its location via the cutless bearing (strut) and our desire to have it centered (not rubbing) in the shaft tube...so you move the dog (engine) around on its mounts until the prop shaft is centered in the tube & cutless..then it is vibration free and no wobble or rubbing.

Dude, now that you have a real boat, you need to get Nigel Calder's book. Or, download and print out every page on Maine Sail's site.

I also like Don Casey's "This Old Boat"..they (all three of them) sometimes have different approaches, but I think all are pretty practical. Don & Nigel both discuss engine alignment in their books.

If I picked one book, I'd get Don's first...it is more tuned to old 4KSB's like ours. You could build a friggin' Westsail 32 from the bare hull with Nigel's book.

You can't learn everything here on SA.

Attached Files

•  0015.JPG   49.49K   14 downloads

[Ajax]

Ahhhh, I see. Geeze, I hope my engine mount bolts aren't siezed up and will allow an alignment. I'll have to take a look.

I'm not limiting myself to SA/CA. I'm a huge fan of the Compass Marine website, that's why I asked Maine Sail to help me identify those cone seacocks. I'll look into getting a copy of This Old Boat as well.

Ugh... the engine makes me so nervous! It starts and runs perfectly everytime, yet I worry about it more than any other system on the boat!

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, me too. I am still scared of the damn thing!

[Beer Fueled Mayhem]

I was afraid of our family's Atomic 4 back when we bought the boat in the early 80's. Not the explosion factor but just, OMG the engine won't start, this hose is leaking, there isn't enough water coming out the exhaust, etc. I decided to not use the engine for a month. Had a mooring ball in one of the Chicago harbors so easier than a slip but still had to navigate the harbor entrance. After that, who cares if the engine started. It's a sailboat. Of course it was the family boat and I was not responsible for the money that was spent on her so I didn't have THAT to worry about. Fast forward almost 30 years (shit, I'm getting old), with my current boat I have a Yanmar 3gm. I've had the exhaust elbow go out whilst motoring into the marina. Hot engine alarm blaring, steam coming out the exhaust. Had to sail into Elliot Bay Marina in Seattle with that one. Almost threw up because of the fear of having to spend a shit ton of money. I then understood why my dad worried about the engine so much. I decided to just fix it. Had no idea about the exhaust elbow, I just started to take the cooling system apart. Well hell, after I determined that the exhaust elbow was hosed and I got it running, I was much less afraid of it. I do all my own work because I am not afraid of breaking anything or making it worse.
IMO quit worrying and embrace the chaos that is owning a boat. I enjoy sailing but I also enjoy making the boat better. Course you would have a hard time convincing bystanders that I am having fun while fixing the boat what with all the cursing, yelling and crying.

[PNW Matt B]

IMO quit worrying and embrace the chaos that is owning a boat. I enjoy sailing but I also enjoy making the boat better. Course you would have a hard time convincing bystanders that I am having fun while fixing the boat what with all the cursing, yelling and crying.

+1000

[Innocent Bystander]

Course you would have a hard time convincing bystanders that I am having fun while fixing the boat what with all the cursing, yelling and crying.

Honest. I'm convinced! That's how I maintain my boat except I probably curse more.

[steele]

I agree completely. The universal diesel in my boat worked perfectly for a decade, then died twice the first year I owned the boat, once entering a quiet anchorage with almost no wind to get back out, the second in the main channel in the marina where I ended up coasting to the end of a pier (the 100 foot long spots where the microsoft drones tie up their billion dollar powerboats). I towed it back to my slip by rowing the dingy. Now the boat hook, fenders, mooring lines all stay at the ready until I am well clear of the marina. I also always have the jib ready to unfurl when ever the boat leaves the dock, even to just motor to the fuel dock to gas up.

I also agree with the idea that the more you work on it, the more comfortable you will get. Touble shooting the above failures helped me learn a lot about the engine, and what tools and spares to have on hand.

[stickboy]

Ahhhh, I see. Geeze, I hope my engine mount bolts aren't siezed up and will allow an alignment. I'll have to take a look.

I'm not limiting myself to SA/CA. I'm a huge fan of the Compass Marine website, that's why I asked Maine Sail to help me identify those cone seacocks. I'll look into getting a copy of This Old Boat as well.

Ugh... the engine makes me so nervous! It starts and runs perfectly everytime, yet I worry about it more than any other system on the boat!

All is normal here. It's the first week of school and you're looking at the final exam and stressing out. Just take it one step at a time and you'll get it. That you're worried about the shaft vibration is a good sign that you will do a good job of engine maintenence, but remember, that thing has been running a long time, you just have to keep it going. I still vividly remember not sleeping for 3 nights worring about the engine when I bought the boat, I specifically remember thinking "Christ, I can't even check the oil, I've got no business owning this thing!". You'll get it in due time.

Personally, aligning the engine is such a a PITA I'd wait and do it when I replace the cuteless bearing, rudder bearings, and shaft log if you get my drift. HB, I don't know what the Catilina has for engine mounts but the P30 has wedges under all 4 corners of the engine, not nice, easily adjusted engine mount bolts.

[Ajax]

Ahhhh, I see. Geeze, I hope my engine mount bolts aren't siezed up and will allow an alignment. I'll have to take a look.

I'm not limiting myself to SA/CA. I'm a huge fan of the Compass Marine website, that's why I asked Maine Sail to help me identify those cone seacocks. I'll look into getting a copy of This Old Boat as well.

Ugh... the engine makes me so nervous! It starts and runs perfectly everytime, yet I worry about it more than any other system on the boat!

All is normal here. It's the first week of school and you're looking at the final exam and stressing out. Just take it one step at a time and you'll get it. That you're worried about the shaft vibration is a good sign that you will do a good job of engine maintenence, but remember, that thing has been running a long time, you just have to keep it going. I still vividly remember not sleeping for 3 nights worring about the engine when I bought the boat, I specifically remember thinking "Christ, I can't even check the oil, I've got no business owning this thing!". You'll get it in due time.

Personally, aligning the engine is such a a PITA I'd wait and do it when I replace the cuteless bearing, rudder bearings, and shaft log if you get my drift. HB, I don't know what the Catilina has for engine mounts but the P30 has wedges under all 4 corners of the engine, not nice, easily adjusted engine mount bolts.

Oh fun. Well, this may be much ado about nothing. The amount of wobble may be within tolerances.


The story of the day, which I have avoided discussing until now, is that the engine raw water thru-hull is weeping at the base. It trips the bilge pump about every 2 or 3 days. The sealant at the base is old, and has failed. I have tried sealing it with 3M products, but the water ingress prevents any sealant from attaching to the base and the hull. The sealant cures, but doesn't attach to anything. Before I launched the boat, I did not know that it leaked but I didn't like how it looked, so I considered replacing it. I discovered that all of my hardware is 3/8th inch sized, and that size has fallen out of common use and isn't stocked in through hulls or seacocks. I shied away from punching a larger hole in the hull and launched the boat. Now I'm paying for it.

I'm going to request a short haul at a local marina, and Bitches & Co. Mobile Shipwrights Inc. is coming up to help me remove the old hardware, punch a 1/2 inch hole, and install new hardware. This has got to be done before winter sets in.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Bitches & Co. Mobile Shipwrights Inc.

Hey, I like that.

In reality, it is just me, Vitamin Sea, & Smurff (so far). You can get people to volunteer for all kinds of things after a beer or three at the OBYC!

While Ajax has the latest saga he is dealing with posted up here, what is everyone using for straight thread pipe dope these days? I used the cheap white toothpaste like stuff in a can from Lowe's when I did mine several years ago, and it is holding up fine (as is evidenced by this recent picture in HB's boat thread), but it is very messy..never dries and sticks to anything that touches it..is there something better to use?

Attached Files

•  marelon_2.jpg   815.2K   11 downloads

[sculpin]

Bitches & Co. Mobile Shipwrights Inc.

Hey, I like that.

I want to see what your logo will look like on the business card!

[Greever]

Bitches & Co. Mobile Shipwrights Inc.

Hey, I like that.

In reality, it is just me, Vitamin Sea, & Smurff (so far). You can get people to volunteer for all kinds of things after a beer or three at the OBYC!

While Ajax has the latest saga he is dealing with posted up here, what is everyone using for straight thread pipe dope these days? I used the cheap white toothpaste like stuff in a can from Lowe's when I did mine several years ago, and it is holding up fine (as is evidenced by this recent picture in HB's boat thread), but it is very messy..never dries and sticks to anything that touches it..is there something better to use?

Yes. They have this crayon looking thinghy. You rub it on the threads, smear it evenly with your finger, tighten, remove excess and voila! It pretty much has the consistency of a crayon too.

They carry them at Lowes or Ace...

[Hike, Bitches!]

Greeves, thanks. I'll check it out. The white pasty stuff works, but it is white pasty stuff. more like the shit in the little plastic can that the weird kid over in the corner would eat in grade school.

[Kaptainkriz]

I use Permatex thread sealer (brown or purple gasket goo) from the auto parts store and a wrapping of teflon tape. It can get hot and works for almost everything.

what is everyone using for straight thread pipe dope these days?

[Hike, Bitches!]

Hmm..I use Permatex all over the engine..I never thought about using it for sealing water too.

[Ajax]

Hmm..I use Permatex all over the engine..I never thought about using it for sealing water too.

I bought the pipe thread crayon thing in preparation for the job. I've used them successfully on camper plumbing, but what's wrong with plain old PTFE thread tape?

[Beau.Vrolyk]

Oh, I'm sure. Just teasing you man. It's just that whenever I see those things, I'm always reminded of Jabba the Hutt's slave barge in "Return of the Jedi".

And exactly what is wrong with that????

B-)

[Ajax]

Oh, I'm sure. Just teasing you man. It's just that whenever I see those things, I'm always reminded of Jabba the Hutt's slave barge in "Return of the Jedi".

And exactly what is wrong with that????

B-)

Nothing at all, if you have one of these onboard:

[Ajax]

Somewhere in the past, I've mentioned that I intend to improve the boat cosmetically as well as functionally. That's something that I didnt' do with the Coronado.

All of the wood trim on deck is in need of rehabilitation. Some of it can be sanded and brought back, some of it will need replacing.

The options are:

Strip, clean and oil the teak and re-oil it frequently.
Strip and coat with a UV stable coating like urethane? Polyurethane?
Cetol? What exactly is Cetol, and what are the proper applications for it? Any specific woods? Is it UV stable?

Thanks.

[Hike, Bitches!]

I personally think Cetol makes teak turn an ugly orange color.

Nothing beats urethane or varnished teak..but it must be maintained. You still have to maintain urethane too, but it is way more durable than varnish.

I am not oiling or otherwise treating my exterior teak currently. I try to keep it from turning black by periodically cleaning it, & I am slowly replacing it all with stainless (grab/handrails, etc..) or PVC board. The removal of most of the exterior wood I think helps to modernize the look of our old 4KSB's a little bit as well.

Mmmm...Princess Leia!

edit - Ajax, I'll be sending an e-mail to you & the "Bitches & Co. Mobile Shipwrights, Inc." employees assigned to your job here sometime today to coordinate our plan. Thursday is still on..just need to get departures, etc. all organized, along with the tool/supplies list you and I have been discussing..

[歐開倫]

Practical Sailor's latest issue discusses an update of exterior wood protection products. Best overall factoring in ease of use, ease of application, and longevity, was Cetol Natural covered with their own gloss product.

HB, this is not the older Cetol which does indeed look like orange paint. I've got Cetol natural on my boat's wood and it's fine. It's not the wet-look deep gloss that I've got on my tiller with Petit's Captain's Varnish, but it's really good. And retouching every few years involves some scotchbrite rubbing for prep. That's it.

[Ajax]

So Cetol is more like a wood stain, and it still requires a varnish for protection? Well if the maintenance is low, I'll try it.

[Merit 25]

The orange Cetol doesn't look good.

Varnish looks the best, but is a PITA, I did it for a year, looked great, then I ripped all the wood off the boat. I admire those who have well varnished boats, but its way too much work for me. I'm too busy repairing soggy core over the winter.

Urethane, or oil for low maintenance.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ou, thanks for the update and newer info on Cetol..I was not aware of it since I hadn't touched the stuff for years!

+1 what Merit25 said.

[steele]

I have used cetol teak for the last few years, I wonder if their natural is better.

[MisterMoon]

Oh, I'm sure. Just teasing you man. It's just that whenever I see those things, I'm always reminded of Jabba the Hutt's slave barge in "Return of the Jedi".

And exactly what is wrong with that????

B-)

Nothing at all, if you have one of these onboard:

If I ever get another one, I'm naming it "Jabba's Slave Barge". However I'm at the point in my life where the Leia's in bronze bikinis are my daughter and her friends...

[Ajax]

Hey, Carrie Fisher has recently lost a ton of weight and is trying to squeeze back into the bronze-kini. Don't give up hope!

[stickboy]

Rita P is all original Cetol, you've seen the pics. Next time I'm trying the Cetol Natural Teak, it's a little less orange. I don't disagree with the dislike of the color, but it's still the best option for me, I can't maintain varnish, I tried Honey Teak and it was a HUGE PITA and didn't last as advertised, I'm not a fan of grey but I'm open to change, no oil for me, it just collects dirt to keep cleaning out. The tiller is varnish but it has a cover when not in use.

And I still stand firm that the best prep is dry scrape with a very sharp metal ski base scraper. Fast, easy, cheap (no sander or paper), doesn't raise the grain, can get into the tightest places batter than anything without exception.

[Ishmael]

Rita P is all original Cetol, you've seen the pics. Next time I'm trying the Cetol Natural Teak, it's a little less orange. I don't disagree with the dislike of the color, but it's still the best option for me, I can't maintain varnish, I tried Honey Teak and it was a HUGE PITA and didn't last as advertised, I'm not a fan of grey but I'm open to change, no oil for me, it just collects dirt to keep cleaning out. The tiller is varnish but it has a cover when not in use.

And I still stand firm that the best prep is dry scrape with a very sharp metal ski base scraper. Fast, easy, cheap (no sander or paper), doesn't raise the grain, can get into the tightest places batter than anything without exception.

The trick is keeping a good scraper sharp. A good ski scraper is almost as good as a dedicated wood scraper. Check out Lee Valley for their excellent scraper collection.

I wish I had stainless handrails...

[rattus32]

While Ajax has the latest saga he is dealing with posted up here, what is everyone using for straight thread pipe dope these days? I used the cheap white toothpaste like stuff in a can from Lowe's when I did mine several years ago, and it is holding up fine (as is evidenced by this recent picture in HB's boat thread), but it is very messy..never dries and sticks to anything that touches it..is there something better to use?

Use Rectumseal. (Actually, Rectorseal, but I like the new version better.) The teflon impregnated version. I've used it on boats, and lately had a hell of a time sealing up flanges for a pump on our radiant heating system in the house. Using teflon tape, no matter how I tightened them, once I had to align them with the pump flanges, they dripped a bit. Even if it's one drop a day, it's enough to drive me insane.

Rectumseal with teflon to the rescue. (Somehow, that sounds wrong.) Put a nice heavy coat on both sides of the threads - in and out - tighten up and wipe the excess. Done. Has even sealed up some bizarre tapered thread heat exchanger connections for me that nothing else cured. You won't find it at Home Depot or Lowes, but most good plumbing supply outfits will have it.

Other lesson learned - if you have a plumbing issue, home or boat, drive past Home Depot or West Marine, and just go to where the local plumbers go. Chances are they actually have what you need in stock, it works, the price is better, and they'll have all the fiddly bits, even stuff in bronze.

Mike

[floating dutchman]

Somewhere in the past, I've mentioned that I intend to improve the boat cosmetically as well as functionally. That's something that I didnt' do with the Coronado.

All of the wood trim on deck is in need of rehabilitation. Some of it can be sanded and brought back, some of it will need replacing.

The options are:

Strip, clean and oil the teak and re-oil it frequently.
Strip and coat with a UV stable coating like urethane? Polyurethane?
Cetol? What exactly is Cetol, and what are the proper applications for it? Any specific woods? Is it UV stable?

Thanks.

I call Bullshit, I saw the before and after photoes.

[Ajax]

Somewhere in the past, I've mentioned that I intend to improve the boat cosmetically as well as functionally. That's something that I didnt' do with the Coronado.

All of the wood trim on deck is in need of rehabilitation. Some of it can be sanded and brought back, some of it will need replacing.

The options are:

Strip, clean and oil the teak and re-oil it frequently.
Strip and coat with a UV stable coating like urethane? Polyurethane?
Cetol? What exactly is Cetol, and what are the proper applications for it? Any specific woods? Is it UV stable?

Thanks.

I call Bullshit, I saw the before and after photoes.

Pfffft... you didn't hear all of the bitching I got from "prospective buyers" about how shitty the cabin was, etc. etc. The usual comments I got were to the effect that they could see that I put a lot of work and effort into the sailing abilities of the boat, but that I didn't do much to make the cabin habitable or inviting. That's because I lived on submarines and was used to a rough environment.

The Pearson has a nice cabin that can be greatly improved just with new cushions and replacing the "smurf blue" formica counter tops with a more contemporary color. For those of you who don't know what a Smurf is:

Clicky here

[kidkodine]

Let me jump in on this - I redid the wood on an old Albin powerboat - I took my time. It was old teak, the PO had put so much oil on it for the last decade that it never could be brought back to it original color - I applied a thinned coat of west 106 clear. Sanded and followed by un-thinned 105. I then followed with (dont laugh) 8 coats of schooner for inside wood and 8 coast of Goldspar (Poly) on the outside. Care was taken to not to have sharp edges. After 2 years in hot sun - parts are starting to lift from the edges while other parts are still looking good but getting a bit dull. As a test I did prep some handrails differently - Finished the wood with 180. The slopped on Thompsons water seal - a lot of it and let it dry overnight - wetsanded with 220 and 400 with waterseal and let dry overnight - the in the morning wetsanded again with 400 and waterseal. Let it sit for an hour the wiped it off with a microfiber cloth. I looked awesome - I guess it looked like a hand rubbed finish. Bottom line is after 2 years, the Thompson looks a lot better - still beads water - If I had rubbed it down every 6 months with additional WS it would look almost new. I do notice a slight loss of "color" in the teak. Overall I dont think I would varnish outside bit ever again. The WS has worked so well that I am seriously considering a Baba/Tayana/Mariner/westsail type of boat... You can see that the middle window is starting to discolor on the lower part - water is starting penetrate via the limber holes - this is maybe a year and a half out...

Attached Files

•  evenmorework.jpg   400.14K   20 downloads

[Hike, Bitches!]

OK - heading off to help our boy Ajax, with Vitamin Sea, Smurff & No Patience tagging along. Oh, and I have a camera..we have lots of help, so someone will be snapping some pics of the destruction....I mean repair work.

Turns out the boat is hauled down the street from the "Old Stein Inn", a place I've wanted to visit...just have to make sure we fix the boat first, before heading to the "Stein".

http://www.oldstein-inn.com/

[Slick470]

Have fun guys. Looking forward to the pictures of the progress. Enjoy the Old Stein too!

[C Koch]

Rita P is all original Cetol, you've seen the pics. Next time I'm trying the Cetol Natural Teak, it's a little less orange. I don't disagree with the dislike of the color, but it's still the best option for me, I can't maintain varnish, I tried Honey Teak and it was a HUGE PITA and didn't last as advertised, I'm not a fan of grey but I'm open to change, no oil for me, it just collects dirt to keep cleaning out. The tiller is varnish but it has a cover when not in use.

And I still stand firm that the best prep is dry scrape with a very sharp metal ski base scraper. Fast, easy, cheap (no sander or paper), doesn't raise the grain, can get into the tightest places batter than anything without exception.

psssssst .... Actually, it's Cetol Light on there right now, which is somewhat less orange than original Cetol but not as light as Cetol Natural Teak. Unfortunately, the Admiral is not so good about putting that maintenance coat on every year and it's starting to fail in places.

Cetol does have ease of application and it does protect (ie you don't have to put varnish over it). It has a satin finish but I seem to think there is also a clear gloss you can put as a top layer which gives you brighter brightwork.

+10 on the scraper. Partly because it was stickboy doing all the work!

[Hike, Bitches!]

Mission accomplished. Pics up tomorrow..Bitches & Co Mobile, Inc live over an hour away and we just disbanded back to our own vehicles....Gotta go back to our real jobs in the morning.

Merit25 made a guest appearance to check on "quality assurance" (mostly I think he drank the beer when we weren't looking.)

[Ajax]

The guys were awesome. I had the boat hauled out, the old hardware removed, and the thru-hull area sanded and clean in time for their arrival. When B & C Inc. arrived, they shaped a great backing block that conformed perfectly to my interior hull's bumpy surface. The work area was very tight because it's next to the engine and next to the galley sink drain standpipe. Barely enough room to get my 5" orbital sander in there. When I removed the old thru-hull, there was only the barest, residual crescent of disintigrating old sealant left. It's a wonder that it was weeping such a tiny amount of water instead of a stream.

I am really going to enjoy having a corrosion free, substantial assembly down there, and I'm relieved to get it done before winter gets here. Once again, many thanks to all the guys for their ingenuity and experience. I got a great education too.

Oh, the Old Stein Inn was great. Excellent food and beer, we all sang German beer drinking songs with the wandering lady who plays the accordian.

[Slick470]

Damn, if I wasn't tied up in this house project mess, I would have tried to be there to help, er supervise, er get in the way, hell, drink with Merit and watch.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Alright, bitches, check it. First pic is Merit25, Vitamin Sea & Smurff supervising, while No Patience does all the work. Me & Ajax are busy towering over everyone to make sure no one gets out of line.

So..we brought a 3/4" thick piece of PVC board..when we dry fit that, we bottomed out the fittings with about an 1/8" to go. no good.

Added a 2nd piece of 1/2" thick teak plywood (scraps from my chart table project), and we could only get about 2 1/2 - 3 rotations on the fittings. no good either.

No Patience had this fancy drill bit set (like a hole saw but without the deep center bit) and we used that to take out a little bit of the 1/2" ply to get to a reasonable thickness & comfortable amount of threads actually engaged. (see 2nd pic)

Then we encapsulated the 1/2" ply in West epoxy, drank a beer or three while that was under a 500w halogen light, stuck the two pieces together, added some 5200, tightened everything down, & the 5200 just started oozing out between the base & hull. (sweet! ) We used #2 Permatex on the threads. The crayon stuff was too crumbly and dry & well, I just didn't get a warm fuzzy about the stuff, but thanks to whomever suggested it...maybe we had a bad crayon.

Ajax was gonna slap a little 5200 in the old screw hole outside leftover from the scoop today if he got around to it and then add some screws to the base of the seacock and everything is done and looking good. It'll probably last forever without all that stuff anyway. Strainer to be added in the future in case a fishy swims up the thru-hull.

Last pic is Ajax with the accordion lady at the Old Stein. While we were there, Salty Wench with her harem, showed up too. No pics of that though, so it must not have happened. - incidentally, Smurff, apparently some obscure musical instrument aficionado, claimed that might not actually be an accordion..but I have no idea what noun he actually used to tell us what it was..I don't think it was English..I was still trying to figure out WTF a Schnitzel was.

Attached Files

•  supervisor.JPG   190.88K   48 downloads
•  details.JPG   96.82K   49 downloads
•  new_installation.JPG   155.52K   46 downloads
•  outside.jpg   93.38K   49 downloads
•  oldstein.jpg   117.2K   43 downloads

[PNW Matt B]

It might be a concertina instead of an accordion, but we'd need to be able to see the left-hand end of the instrument to tell, if I remember correctly.

[Hike, Bitches!]

yeah...concertina..I think that is what Smurff said.

[Hike, Bitches!]

So, Ajax...did the boat float when it was splashed? C'mon...the success of Bitches' & Co. Mobile Shiprights, Inc. is dependent on your report.

[Ajax]

Oh! Yes, everything is fine. Dry and solid. Was there ever any doubt???

[PNW Matt B]

Well... none of us wanted to say anything at the time... but, well...

[Kaptainkriz]

Nice!! ooo, that German place have food too? I need to go there!!

Alright, bitches, check it. First pic is Merit25, Vitamin Sea & Smurff supervising, while No Patience does all the work. Me & Ajax are busy towering over everyone to make sure no one gets out of line.

So..we brought a 3/4" thick piece of PVC board..when we dry fit that, we bottomed out the fittings with about an 1/8" to go. no good.

Added a 2nd piece of 1/2" thick teak plywood (scraps from my chart table project), and we could only get about 2 1/2 - 3 rotations on the fittings. no good either.

No Patience had this fancy drill bit set (like a hole saw but without the deep center bit) and we used that to take out a little bit of the 1/2" ply to get to a reasonable thickness & comfortable amount of threads actually engaged. (see 2nd pic)

Then we encapsulated the 1/2" ply in West epoxy, drank a beer or three while that was under a 500w halogen light, stuck the two pieces together, added some 5200, tightened everything down, & the 5200 just started oozing out between the base & hull. (sweet! ) We used #2 Permatex on the threads. The crayon stuff was too crumbly and dry & well, I just didn't get a warm fuzzy about the stuff, but thanks to whomever suggested it...maybe we had a bad crayon.

Ajax was gonna slap a little 5200 in the old screw hole outside leftover from the scoop today if he got around to it and then add some screws to the base of the seacock and everything is done and looking good. It'll probably last forever without all that stuff anyway. Strainer to be added in the future in case a fishy swims up the thru-hull.

Last pic is Ajax with the accordion lady at the Old Stein. While we were there, Salty Wench with her harem, showed up too. No pics of that though, so it must not have happened. - incidentally, Smurff, apparently some obscure musical instrument aficionado, claimed that might not actually be an accordion..but I have no idea what noun he actually used to tell us what it was..I don't think it was English..I was still trying to figure out WTF a Schnitzel was.

[Greever]

So you had a "Harem" of Sailing Hotties stop by, and you give us pics of an Old German Lady?

[Hike, Bitches!]

Well, I am pretty sure none of the harem are sailors, so it is safe to say here that Salty Wench was the only one that is hot.

KK, yes, and Vitamin Sea & Smurff, apparently German food aficionados, said it was pretty tasty.

Good deal, Ajax, just checking. +1 what Matt B said...it's a fucking boat, there is always doubt.

[Merit 25]

hey, I uhh.. umm, yeah, I just drank the beer.

[stickboy]

Hey, C Kock and I are coming down to the boat show, anyone going to the show?

[Vitamin Sea]

Food was good and the beer was cold. I would recomend it to anyone. In fact I have. So if you are doing a little boat work and need a little somthing I woudl say hit it.

[Hike, Bitches!]

stickboy, we'll be there! (not at the Catalina booth..that was pretty boring and a looong way from Pusser's!)

[歐開倫]

Ajax:

Cetol demonstration.


Here are some pictures of my 4ksb I took yesterday. I used Cetol Natural on the teak about 14 months ago. The original was weathered and old teak - totally dry and totally greyed out. I did not use bleach, just washed it well, let it dry, then oiled it. Because I did not bleach, it left the dark stains in the crevices, which I don't mind.

After the oil dried I applied Cetol. Very easy, not as fussy as varnish - just brush it on carefully. Probably 4 coats, and I need to touch it up this year. Lots of people put a coat of Cetol gloss over the top, but this is shiny enough for me. It is NOT the deep wet look of varnish, as can be seen in the last picture of my old Daysailer that I did woodwork on.

[Ajax]

OKL- I actually like that "less wet" look that you have. I may try that.

In other news, I have been scrounging at Bacon's and put together a boom vang. I may have placed the bail too far forward on the boom, but I'm not sure. I'll have to sail and find out if I have enough leverage. If not, then I get to drill more holes in the boom. Yay!

I have installed enough turning blocks that I now have turning blocks to get the spin sheets to the primaries, blocks for the twings and blocks to complete the bridle for the foreguy. I have one, small, strong, continuous line run from the cockpit to the pole and back to the cockpit as is per convention.

I have line that I need to cut for the twings, I replaced the pole lift line. The spin halyard I made is 10' too short, so I get to do that again. I need 100' of line to make sure that it's long enough after it's spliced, and I need to make my own spin sheets instead of borrowing stuff from Merit25 and Slick.

If I can finally get all of this running rigging and control line stuff nailed down, then I can look into replacing sails.

[floating dutchman]

Can you use the fkd up halyard for the guys?

Assuming it's 90 ft, 45 ft each side should be plenty but if you want to do a letterbox drop you will have to let the windward guy run out.

[Ajax]

Can you use the fkd up halyard for the guys?

Assuming it's 90 ft, 45 ft each side should be plenty but if you want to do a letterbox drop you will have to let the windward guy run out.

After a lengthy discussion on guys and twings over in the main SA forum, I have decided that separate guys for my boat are overkill. The lazy sheet will act as the guy, and twings/tweakers will provide the proper angle of attack for the lazy sheet to do it's thing. It's less spaghetti in the cockpit, and requires fewer winches to operate the spinnaker.

At least, that's how I've come to understand the way we've set it all up. But yeah, eventually the f'd up halyard will be re-purposed for other things. Probably twings and a better boom vang line.

[Hike, Bitches!]

FD has a good idea..take your 90' halyard that is too short and cut it in half for spin sheets. However, 45' is a little tiny bit short for sheets on our size boat as well. Mine are 45' right now, and I am looking to make the replacements 55' if I can. All that being said, if your SOP is to have a foredeck person drop the spin into the forward hatch, 45' should suffice..you just won't be able to pull the clews all the way around and get the sail into the main companionway. My boat had one of those CHutescoop snuffer things, so 45' was plenty since the clews always came together on deck near the pole..now that I've ripped that piece of crap off the boat (for sale, cheap!) if I ever need to do a shorthanded douse in the companionway, I'll need longer sheets.

Another option is to make one good sheet out of that halyard (55-60'), use the other 30' for something else entirely (vang?) and then you only have to buy one sheet and one halyard.

[Innocent Bystander]

Another option is to make one good sheet out of that halyard (55-60'), use the other 30' for something else entirely (vang?) and then you only have to buy one sheet and one halyard.

Second that. Anything big enough for a halyard or sheet is too big for a twing. You want the twings to be as light as posible so that they don't weight down the sheets when loose. Snatch blocks help but sometimes you are too busy (or forgetful ) to remove them.

[Ajax]

That halyard is only about 80', so it's simply too short for a set of spin sheets. I like your idea of making one good sheet, and a vang line, and buying one sheet and one halyard.

[SailRacer]

Note: Do NOT make the Spinn sheets too short to do a letterbox drop.

I.E. I think you are going to need more than 45ft (in order to possibly do a splice for a proper shackle and (donut?) one day.. YMMV.

Sail safe !

[Ajax]

Um... how does one secure the doughnut to the end of the spin sheet? Although I've been on Mrgnstrn's boat a lot, I never thought to look at what actually holds them at the end of the line.

[Innocent Bystander]

Um... how does one secure the doughnut to the end of the spin sheet? Although I've been on Mrgnstrn's boat a lot, I never thought to look at what actually holds them at the end of the line.

Needle, thread and palm....

[Hike, Bitches!]

lots of tape.

[Merit 25]

butterflies and rainbows.
Unicorns and glitter.
A little bit of fairy dust.
Hope and sweet dreams.

Or what IB said. Get the tiny doughnuts from APS if you decide to get them.

[Ajax]

butterflies and rainbows.
Unicorns and glitter.
A little bit of fairy dust.
Hope and sweet dreams.

Or what IB said. Get the tiny doughnuts from APS if you decide to get them.

Will stripper glitter work? I think I still have some stuck to a shirt...

I have the small doughnuts, just gotta make my own sheets to stick 'em to.

[Merit 25]

stripper glitter will work (it never comes off), but it'll be hard to explain to the Mrs. how it got on your spin sheets.

[Trovão]

OKL- I actually like that "less wet" look that you have. I may try that.

In other news, I have been scrounging at Bacon's and put together a boom vang. I may have placed the bail too far forward on the boom, but I'm not sure. I'll have to sail and find out if I have enough leverage. If not, then I get to drill more holes in the boom. Yay!

I have installed enough turning blocks that I now have turning blocks to get the spin sheets to the primaries, blocks for the twings and blocks to complete the bridle for the foreguy. I have one, small, strong, continuous line run from the cockpit to the pole and back to the cockpit as is per convention.

I have line that I need to cut for the twings, I replaced the pole lift line. The spin halyard I made is 10' too short, so I get to do that again. I need 100' of line to make sure that it's long enough after it's spliced, and I need to make my own spin sheets instead of borrowing stuff from Merit25 and Slick.

If I can finally get all of this running rigging and control line stuff nailed down, then I can look into replacing sails.

the usual is to have the vang placed at about 1/3rd of the lenght of the boom.

[Kaptainkriz]

Glitter on any sheets would pose a definite problem in my house....
I like to use a few wraps of cloth medical tape and run it through with some waxed thread.

stripper glitter will work (it never comes off), but it'll be hard to explain to the Mrs. how it got on your spin sheets.

[Ajax]

the usual is to have the vang placed at about 1/3rd of the lenght of the boom.

Wunderbar. Wish I'd known that earlier, or had thought to ask. I really think that in a stiff breeze, I'm not going to have the necessary purchase. I guess I'd better move it.

Glitter on any sheets would pose a definite problem in my house....
I like to use a few wraps of cloth medical tape and run it through with some waxed thread.

Ok, so not quickly interchangeable between sets of sheets. I'll buy some more doughnuts.

By the bye KK, I'll be crewing with M25 during the Hoopers Islands race this Saturday. Hope to see you out there.

[Innocent Bystander]

Ok, so not quickly interchangeable between sets of sheets. I'll buy some more doughnuts.

????

You really only need the donuts on you moderate to heavy air spin sheets. Their purpose is to keep the shackle on the guy (brace for you upside down Aussies) out of the jaw of the pole (where it may jam). With light air sheets, there is usually not enough pressure to jam anything and you don't want the weight on light sheets.