1046 replies to this topic

[Kaptainkriz]

I put oxalic acid pressure wash concentrate (fence cleaner) in a bug sprayer straight with a little soap as a wetting agent. Spray it on....stains dissapear while you watch. Rinse. Takes literally 5 minutes to do the entire boat and hose down afterwards. Don't get it in your eyes.....hurts!!

You can buy oxalic acid at most hardware stores under the name "Wood Bleach". It's way cheaper than FRS but doesn't have the gel carrier that lets it stay on vertical surfaces. I find that alone is enough to recommend FRS.

[Ajax]

Well, Sea Wooluf is no more, all the lettering is gone. I need to wet sand a bit, and have a de-naming ceremony.

I'll hit Ace Hardware tomorrow for the pressure washer concentrate. I already have one of the pump-up pesticide sprayers.
Wow...at this rate, I might actually get to the brightwork before winter sets in.

[Innocent Bystander]

Well, Sea Wooluf is no more, all the lettering is gone.

Finally!

[Ishmael]

Congratulations. Glad to see that go.

[mrgnstrn]

Well, Sea Wooluf is no more, all the lettering is gone. I need to wet sand a bit, and have a de-naming ceremony.

I'll hit Ace Hardware tomorrow for the pressure washer concentrate. I already have one of the pump-up pesticide sprayers.
Wow...at this rate, I might actually get to the brightwork before winter sets in.

So....Who's invited?

-M

[Hike, Bitches!]

That was the worst name ever..i think. Congrats on the progress, Ajax.

[Ajax]

Thanks to KK for the cleaning tip. I couldn't find pressure washer concentrate that specifically stated that it had Oxalic acid in it, so I bought a bottle of Bar Keeper's Friend. Dilute 50/50 in a bug pressure sprayer.

From this (disgraceful):



To this (acceptable):



I also replaced the navigation lights with high power, warm white LED's. They'll go a long way towards extending battery life.

[Slick470]

Looking good there Ajax!!

[hard aground]

Did you get some wax on the hull to keep it looking nice a bit longer?

[Ajax]

Did you get some wax on the hull to keep it looking nice a bit longer?

No, it's been raining all friggin' day. I was lucky to get that done.

[floating dutchman]

I also replaced the navigation lights with high power, warm white LED's. They'll go a long way towards extending battery life.

You HAVE to colour match the LED nav lights, the light output drop of a white LED and a red lense is lots, I haven t tried a green one but guess its the same. Honestly how much are you paying for LED nav lights. I can get a red green pair for less thart $50. job done and sealed fitting.

Boat looks good by the way.

[PNW Matt B]

I also replaced the navigation lights with high power, warm white LED's. They'll go a long way towards extending battery life.

You HAVE to colour match the LED nav lights, the light output drop of a white LED and a red lense is lots, I haven t tried a green one but guess its the same. Honestly how much are you paying for LED nav lights. I can get a red green pair for less thart $50. job done and sealed fitting.

Boat looks good by the way.

Also, dropping an LED replacement bulb into a nav light fitting is technically no longer certified by the Coast Guard. You have to have a certified configuration to be legal.

[Ajax]

I also replaced the navigation lights with high power, warm white LED's. They'll go a long way towards extending battery life.

You HAVE to colour match the LED nav lights, the light output drop of a white LED and a red lense is lots, I haven t tried a green one but guess its the same. Honestly how much are you paying for LED nav lights. I can get a red green pair for less thart $50. job done and sealed fitting.

Boat looks good by the way.

I didn't just buy the cheapest LED's on the market and slap 'em in. I chose a color designed to work with colored lenses, that put out the required number of lumens to account for the loss through the lens to acheive the equivalent brightness of the same incandescent bulb. Yes, I've read that in some applications, you need to use a red LED with a red lense, but if you use a powerful enough bank of warm white LEDs, you can achieve the required intensity. I also ensured that they would provide the necessary 112 degree arc of visibility.

Also, dropping an LED replacement bulb into a nav light fitting is technically no longer certified by the Coast Guard. You have to have a certified configuration to be legal.

You may be right, but I have a question about that: You can go into West Marine right now, and buy replacement "navigation LEDs" for use in Aqua Signal navigation fixtures that use a 33mm or 41mm festoon bulb. These LED's are NOT made or sold by Aqua Signal. Are you telling me that West Marine is knowingly marketing a product that invalidates a boat owner's navigation lights CG certification to be legal?

In fact, here is the product: Dr. LED on WM Oops, this one is specifically for a clear lens for masthead and anchor lights. Still, it would violate a CG certification, no?

This one is for colored lenses: More Dr. LED on WM

At least on the Defender website, many LED ads state whether or not the LED should be used in a navigation fixture for some of them.
Here's a warm white LED that claims to be suitable for reading lamps and most navigational lighting fixtures: Dr. LED on Defender

I can site other web examples from other vendors but you get the point. None of the WM items say anything about maintaining a CG certification. What about boaters who accidentally replace a burned out incandescent bulb with one of the proper fit, but incorrect wattage? I guess they'll be found guilty in an admiralty court as well.

In the end, I've kept the incandescent bulbs and I can put them back in, if I feel that the LED's aren't up to the task.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax..I figure if the USCG wants to climb my mast and check out my aftermarket LED anchor light in my AquaSignal series 20 base..they are welcome to do so. My red & green shark running lights are USCG 2NM legal according to their stamp.

I am retrofitting the stern light with non-USCG compliant fittings..the jury is still out since I haven't completed it yet...but it's gotta be better than the GE-90 5 watt bulb that was in there..

[Ajax]

Upgraded the boat from the 39 year-old, leaky Wilcox-Crittendon "Headmate" toilet to a Jabsco yesterday. It works a treat.

Any user experience with these? Durable? Easy to find re-build kits and repair parts? Decent flushing capability?

[Innocent Bystander]

Upgraded the boat from the 39 year-old, leaky Wilcox-Crittendon "Headmate" toilet to a Jabsco yesterday. It works a treat.

Any user experience with these? Durable? Easy to find re-build kits and repair parts? Decent flushing capability?

Jabsco is perfectly fine.

Why are you spending money on a toilet?
You need a genoa

[Ajax]

Upgraded the boat from the 39 year-old, leaky Wilcox-Crittendon "Headmate" toilet to a Jabsco yesterday. It works a treat.

Any user experience with these? Durable? Easy to find re-build kits and repair parts? Decent flushing capability?

Jabsco is perfectly fine.

Why are you spending money on a toilet?
You need a genoa

It was free!

[Soñadora]

what is with us dorks taking pictures of a boat that's taking pictures of us at the same time?

nice job on the cleanup

I love cleanup. It makes you feel like you have a new boat.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, The Jabsco works fine. Add to your annual maintenance list, the $10.99 Joker Valve from Defender. Do not pass go and do not spend $26 at West Marine. In your neck of the woods, even at the god damned Beneteau dealer at Jabin's a joker valve costs less than $10!!

[Ajax]

Ajax, The Jabsco works fine. Add to your annual maintenance list, the $10.99 Joker Valve from Defender. Do not pass go and do not spend $26 at West Marine. In your neck of the woods, even at the god damned Beneteau dealer at Jabin's a joker valve costs less than $10!!

Good to know, HB. I know you don't have access to SA at work anymore, but you've been awfully quiet. I hope all is well in the Land of Bystanders and Bitches.

Yesterday, I installed and wired in the starboard AC receptacle that is meant for a mini-fridge. Neat and tidy. I'm using permanent cable supports that are padded with rubber. Marine grade wire, and of course, another GFCI outlet because the damn thing is on it's own breaker, and not downstream of another GFCI outlet. And NO, the fridge will NOT EVER be permanently mounted, nor will I ever sail with it. Just toss it up on the dock, and go. There's no reason to be uncivilized when you're tied up at the dock.

All that's left to do, is wire up the photon torpedo launchers and the retracting stripper pole!

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax...all is good here...you know where to find me. We even had the 4KSB out at the mouth of the Patuxent on Gov Cup night looking for racers..we saw a few running lights, but we learned later and as we'd figured, we were out a little early to see the pack since it was an upwind bash all night.

I wholeheartedly understand your attempts to civilize your boat, but do not complain to me when you have to move the boot stripe up an inch in a few years from all the added weight..and remember, you do not get a rating credit for all that 'stuff'.

[Slick470]

what is with us dorks taking pictures of a boat that's taking pictures of us at the same time?

I'm pretty sure I'm the dork on the other end of that photo... and I'm also pretty sure that if Ajax posts the photo he took, there will be a camera over my face too.

[savoir]

Ajax, The Jabsco works fine. Add to your annual maintenance list, the $10.99 Joker Valve from Defender. Do not pass go and do not spend $26 at West Marine. In your neck of the woods, even at the god damned Beneteau dealer at Jabin's a joker valve costs less than $10!!

Good to know, HB. I know you don't have access to SA at work anymore, but you've been awfully quiet. I hope all is well in the Land of Bystanders and Bitches.

Yesterday, I installed and wired in the starboard AC receptacle that is meant for a mini-fridge. Neat and tidy. I'm using permanent cable supports that are padded with rubber. Marine grade wire, and of course, another GFCI outlet because the damn thing is on it's own breaker, and not downstream of another GFCI outlet. And NO, the fridge will NOT EVER be permanently mounted, nor will I ever sail with it. Just toss it up on the dock, and go. There's no reason to be uncivilized when you're tied up at the dock.

All that's left to do, is wire up the photon torpedo launchers and the retracting stripper pole!

Those darned Klingons aren't back again are they ? As if the roaches weren't bad enough.

[Ajax]

Good to know, HB. I know you don't have access to SA at work anymore, but you've been awfully quiet. I hope all is well in the Land of Bystanders and Bitches.

Yesterday, I installed and wired in the starboard AC receptacle that is meant for a mini-fridge. Neat and tidy. I'm using permanent cable supports that are padded with rubber. Marine grade wire, and of course, another GFCI outlet because the damn thing is on it's own breaker, and not downstream of another GFCI outlet. And NO, the fridge will NOT EVER be permanently mounted, nor will I ever sail with it. Just toss it up on the dock, and go. There's no reason to be uncivilized when you're tied up at the dock.

All that's left to do, is wire up the photon torpedo launchers and the retracting stripper pole!

Those darned Klingons aren't back again are they ? As if the roaches weren't bad enough.

Not at all. The photon torpedoes are for killing the roaches.

[Robcooper0767]

Yes a Newbie!
1974 P30, Hull 644, Passeggiata. Been reading Ajax's adventure with interest. Bought boat last summer, new thru hulls done, deck hardware removed/rebedded, bottom blasted to gelcoat-barrier coat-paint, 20Amp Charles battery charger, stuffing box redone, new manifold and exhaust system, new (used) vhf and new antenna, 7/16 jib Halyard (VPC), 1/2 staset sheets, found a 100% jib on ebay, about 4 years old (used maybe a year).........spent WAY more than expected, but got it for a good price (isn't that what everyone says!)
Don't have a boom vang, and would appreciate some recommendations. Outhaul goes to forward cleat on boom, starboard side. Topping lift, when reattached when taking main down, got snagged on batten (about mid sail level).
Recommendations on sailing without a boom vang. Here's why:
Just had her launched in Rock Hall about a month ago......Sailed her up to Aberdeen Proving Ground last Saturday. A bit hot but some wind.....Definitely have to learn how to sail her....enjoyed every minute! But, sailing her downwind was disappointing since the boom would raise due to no vang........Acknowledge I have a lot to learn about maneuvering with her. ....No bail or place on mast currently to mount a soft vang.
Will provide photos as soon as able.
Bottom Line.....A whole lot to learn - and can't wait to....
BTW: Thanks for the tip on 50/50 bottle of barkeepers and bug sprayer. Will that work on topside and cockpit too, or too harsh?
Cheers

[Ajax]

Hey Rob,

Congratulations! I'm jealous of your VPC halyards. I haven't got that far yet. It's good to hear from another local P30 owner. From what I can tell, the cockpit gelcoat is the same as everywhere else, so you can use the barkeepers there. Test in a small, inconspicuous spot around a drain first.

If you've been lurking for a while, then you know the traditional greeting. Get 'em out!

[steele]

Robo, always nice to have another 40 year old boat owner on board. As to the vang, I sailed without one on my 72 Tartan 30 for a few years. For downwind sailing you can make a strap out of heavy sailcloth with an eye in each end and us it as a strap around the boom. Then use a line from the strap to the toe rail to hold the boom down on long downwind runs. It will also work as a peventer, but that always made me kind of jumpy when the wind picked up unless I had a quick way to release it if I got broached. I eventualy invested in a Garhauer rigid vang which not only allows much better sail shape control, but lets me sail without the topping lift, I remove from the boom at at the dock and tie it off out of the way to the stern rail. A rigid vang also makes slab reefing much easyer. Garhuaer has sales on vangs once or twice a year. Their stuff is heavy compared to other options, but well made and a good value. If you want to go lighter and high end Hall vangs are worth a look. I have no financial interest in either company.

[p30yachts]

just joined in...will be glad to talk anything Pearson 30 with folks.
saw this thread a long time ago and thought I'd chime in.
If you need to know something about the P30 just ask ..I'll do my best.

[Anomaly2]

just joined in...will be glad to talk anything Pearson 30 with folks.
saw this thread a long time ago and thought I'd chime in.
If you need to know something about the P30 just ask ..I'll do my best.

You just joined in and want to go straight to talking P30 trash?

Ahem, that's not the way it works.....

I'm tired, I had to spend the day with Olaf and Sweet Hart dragging me all over to show me the hillbilly highlights of Tassie. I'm sure somebody else will chime in to tell you the protocol around here.

[Ajax]

Eh, it's my rehab thread so I'll do it.

P30- Fuck off and show us your girlfriend's/sister's tits.

Now that protocol has been observed, I'd be very interested in seeing any photos you may have, and improvements that you've done.

[sailglobal]

just joined in...will be glad to talk anything Pearson 30 with folks.
saw this thread a long time ago and thought I'd chime in.
If you need to know something about the P30 just ask ..I'll do my best.

You just joined in and want to go straight to talking P30 trash?

Ahem, that's not the way it works.....

I'm tired, I had to spend the day with Olaf and Sweet Hart dragging me all over to show me the hillbilly highlights of Tassie. I'm sure somebody else will chime in to tell you the protocol around here.

Sure hope the old fart took you to the Longly International for lunch. Did you meet Wizza?

[Anomaly2]

Sure hope the old fart took you to the Longly International for lunch. Did you meet Wizza?

?? That must be on the A-tour. I'm pretty sure Olaf and his lovely bride took me on the B-tour. These sadists FORCED me to go sailing with them. Which meant DRAGGING me over to some hell-hole known as Barnes Bay (on Bruny Island). Where I had to look at what passes for boat porn around here. Oh yeah, and this is during the middle of "winter" here. All of about 55 degrees on Sunday. It was awful. Judge for yourself in the attached pics beginning with one of the boring view from Chez Olaf.

In seriousness-- the "Harts" are lovely and I was reminded of the old comment by the former Governor of Oregon (Tom McCall) who once said on national TV "visit often but please don't come to live here". Paradise found I'd say and anyone who gets a chance to visit should.

Thread relevance: I didn't see any P-30s......

Attached Files

•  ChezOlafView2.jpg   287.39K   20 downloads
•  LadyLiskeard.jpg   217.81K   28 downloads
•  BarnesBay1.jpg   124.94K   37 downloads
•  BarnesBay2.jpg   146.06K   38 downloads
•  BarnesBay4.jpg   120.77K   37 downloads
•  Kettering2.jpg   66.54K   24 downloads

[floating dutchman]

Eh, it's my rehab thread so I'll do it.

P30- Fuck off and show us your girlfriend's/sister's tits.

Now that protocol has been observed, I'd be very interested in seeing any photos you may have, and improvements that you've done.

I don't know about you, But personaly I'm more fond of natural tits.

[Ajax]

Two words people: Butyl-friggin'-tape.

Racing seems to have shaken and loosened some things up, so I had a leaky topside grab rail. On the P30, the topside grab rail mates to a belowdecks grab rail inside, so the bolts penetrate the cabin. Looks like it was only bedded in ordinary silicone.

A few hours after bedding the rail in butyl tape, a storm rolled through, and not a drop of moisture to be seen.

[Tucky]

?? That must be on the A-tour. I'm pretty sure Olaf and his lovely bride took me on the B-tour. These sadists FORCED me to go sailing with them. Which meant DRAGGING me over to some hell-hole known as Barnes Bay (on Bruny Island). Where I had to look at what passes for boat porn around here. Oh yeah, and this is during the middle of "winter" here. All of about 55 degrees on Sunday. It was awful. Judge for yourself in the attached pics beginning with one of the boring view from Chez Olaf.

In seriousness-- the "Harts" are lovely and I was reminded of the old comment by the former Governor of Oregon (Tom McCall) who once said on national TV "visit often but please don't come to live here". Paradise found I'd say and anyone who gets a chance to visit should.

Thread relevance: I didn't see any P-30s......

Magellan is a sweet looking boat- some might say a big butt, but nicely done.

[stickboy]

Two words people: Butyl-friggin'-tape.

Racing seems to have shaken and loosened some things up, so I had a leaky topside grab rail. On the P30, the topside grab rail mates to a belowdecks grab rail inside, so the bolts penetrate the cabin. Looks like it was only bedded in ordinary silicone.

A few hours after bedding the rail in butyl tape, a storm rolled through, and not a drop of moisture to be seen.

Wow, that's a frustrating job getting those back on.Well done! I made new ones for Rita P, getting the holes right and bending them was a PITA.

Got a Jenny yet ?

[Soñadora]

+1 on butyl tape. Very easy to work with in the 'forward' direction. Getting it off's a bitch though. Typical sequence onboard Soñadora is to <perform operation> then realize it's fucked up then <un perform operation> fix fuck up <re-perform operation>. And in some cases repeat. If the <un perform operation> sequence involved any bolts (like those that hold down a cleat) getting the tape off is a major undertaking. A wire brush on a bench grinder is your best bet.

[Ishmael]

+1 on butyl tape. Very easy to work with in the 'forward' direction. Getting it off's a bitch though. Typical sequence onboard Soñadora is to <perform operation> then realize it's fucked up then <un perform operation> fix fuck up <re-perform operation>. And in some cases repeat. If the <un perform operation> sequence involved any bolts (like those that hold down a cleat) getting the tape off is a major undertaking. A wire brush on a bench grinder is your best bet.

Interlux Special Thinner 216 dissolves butyl quite nicely.

[stickboy]

Interlux Special Thinner 216 dissolves butyl quite nicely.

Many thanks.

[Soñadora]

Interlux Special Thinner 216 dissolves butyl quite nicely.

Many thanks.

+1 yeah, that's good to know

[mrgnstrn]

Two words people: Butyl-friggin'-tape.

Racing seems to have shaken and loosened some things up, so I had a leaky topside grab rail. On the P30, the topside grab rail mates to a belowdecks grab rail inside, so the bolts penetrate the cabin. Looks like it was only bedded in ordinary silicone.

A few hours after bedding the rail in butyl tape, a storm rolled through, and not a drop of moisture to be seen.

you told me a short while ago...but where did you get this stuff again?

-M

[Beau.Vrolyk]

+1 on butyl tape. Very easy to work with in the 'forward' direction. Getting it off's a bitch though. Typical sequence onboard Soñadora is to <perform operation> then realize it's fucked up then <un perform operation> fix fuck up <re-perform operation>. And in some cases repeat. If the <un perform operation> sequence involved any bolts (like those that hold down a cleat) getting the tape off is a major undertaking. A wire brush on a bench grinder is your best bet.

Interlux Special Thinner 216 dissolves butyl quite nicely.

+10

[Ajax]

Indeed, and that's the purpose of this thread.

[Ajax]

This week, I finally completed my shore power installation as I've envisioned it. I have:

Blue Sea 8-breaker + main panel.
Galley outlet.
Fridge/Microwave outlet.
Fwd cabin outlet.
Onboard battery charger.

I have done my very best to install things in a professional manner and use the proper materials. Yet...somehow I'm not quite satisfied. As I added more cable runs, things seemed to get a little cluttered. I mean, everything is restrained and suspended in a safe way, with strain-reliefs and all that. It's just not quite as neat as I'd like it. I think I'd like to get some cable labels to help identify everything.

The final run was a bitch. Finding a good, safe place to install the fwd cabin outlet was difficult, and then it was a long run through the bowels of the boat, back to the breaker panel. I've restrained the cable, and it's probably fine but it's just not the way I want it. I need a skinnier body with longer arms who can anchor the cable to the points I want it anchored to.

Am I just being persnickity or what?

[Innocent Bystander]

It is OK to be persnickety. One thing you might consider as you update an older basic 3 lights and a manual cold water system boat to something more modern is to install 12V wiring conduit (CPVC pipe) fore and aft on both sides. A good place is often the underside of bunks/berths along the hull. Thay will allow you to collect wires in an organized fashion and run them through lockers, bulkheads, etc. Naturally, never bundle 12V and AC in the same run.

When do you install FWC for the engine so you can hook up a hot water through a heat exchanger?

[Ajax]

It is OK to be persnickety. One thing you might consider as you update an older basic 3 lights and a manual cold water system boat to something more modern is to install 12V wiring conduit (CPVC pipe) fore and aft on both sides. A good place is often the underside of bunks/berths along the hull. Thay will allow you to collect wires in an organized fashion and run them through lockers, bulkheads, etc. Naturally, never bundle 12V and AC in the same run.

When do you install FWC for the engine so you can hook up a hot water through a heat exchanger?

Erm...that final 110v run has been run and restrained adjoining a 12vdc run. Is that bad? Even if the wires are plainly labled?

I'm kind of drawing the line here. No pressurized water, no hot water. I'm watching 2 people in my marina struggle with failed FWC heat exchangers and one of the engines only has a few hundred hours on it. I'm not certain it's worth the trouble to upgrade my old A-4 to FWC. If I do a re-power in the future, then I might.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, if I can bastardize a RWC'd A4 to FWC'd,., anyone can. I do weird shit too, and I readily admit it...but if you want to come down for a fall sail and see it, let me know.

[mrgnstrn]

It is OK to be persnickety. One thing you might consider as you update an older basic 3 lights and a manual cold water system boat to something more modern is to install 12V wiring conduit (CPVC pipe) fore and aft on both sides. A good place is often the underside of bunks/berths along the hull. Thay will allow you to collect wires in an organized fashion and run them through lockers, bulkheads, etc. Naturally, never bundle 12V and AC in the same run.

When do you install FWC for the engine so you can hook up a hot water through a heat exchanger?

Erm...that final 110v run has been run and restrained adjoining a 12vdc run. Is that bad? Even if the wires are plainly labled?

I'm kind of drawing the line here. No pressurized water, no hot water. I'm watching 2 people in my marina struggle with failed FWC heat exchangers and one of the engines only has a few hundred hours on it. I'm not certain it's worth the trouble to upgrade my old A-4 to FWC. If I do a re-power in the future, then I might.

ok, but I have both and have had no problem thus far, and neither have been replaced since the boat was new in 1987.

look closely at those two guys having problems....where they treating their boats right?

and...you can have a 120V hot water heater that isn't hooked up to the engine....most are dual duty, so just don't hook up the engine.

but what are you using hot pressurized water for anyway, showers? I doubt it.

probably just dishes and washing hands and the like.

you just need one of those under-counter hot water heaters (the kinds that simmer all day and make 210F hot water.) pretty compact and not a *huge* power draw.

food for thought.

what are you useign to stay warm in the cabin this winter? I have a friend who left a diesel cabin heater behind when they went to New Orleans...could get you a deal on it.

-m

[Ajax]

I know one of the guys is treating his boat right, the other not so sure. If I was any further north, I'd seriously look at a hot water heater, but I'm just not doing it here.

I appreciate the offer of the diesel heater, but I'm not cutting holes in my cabin top for an exhaust stack/Charlie Noble/whateveryoucallit. I'll be insulating hatches and areas of the hull. I'm using an oil-filled electric radiator heater, and I have a catalytic propane heater for a booster. This morning, the temperature was 48F. I had the radiator set for 900w and the cabin was 69F. The heater max output is 1500w. I can add another one if I need to. My final fallback in case of inability to compensate, is to stay at my buddy's house up in Gaithersburg. I won't freeze.

[Ajax]

Gang,

My masthead has provisions for two more halyards. I'm thinking that it would be prudent to have spare halyards if I'm going to sail to Maine, or around Delmarva.

I want them to be internal, like my primary main & jib halyards. This obviously requires (shudder) cutting holes in my mast.

Can you guys offer any guidance on the placement/orientation of these holes? Side-by-side? Vertical? Should they be staggered? Approximately how high up should the holes be?

Thanks.

[Merit 25]

What will the halyards be used for? Spin/jib? If you want a dedicated spin halyard, then put the cut out 7' above the deck. Stagger the other cut out(s) as much as posible and get mast exit plates to finish it off. I've been pretty happy with my mast cleat for my spin if you wan to add one of those as well.

I'd go with a 3 halyard setup. One primary for your jib, and two wing halyards. Pretty standard. Use sta-set spliced to dyneema and save some money and weight. Or, if you want to end-for-end, VPC should be a happy median.

[Ryley]

Before you go cutting holes in your mast, I'd get a rigger to come and bless the project. I know in another class of boat where exits cut so crew could jump the spin halyard were quite likely the cause of several of that class's masts failing. A subsequent note by the designer that was discovered on the rig drawing said "no exits above gooseneck." The Pearson 30 has a pretty beefy rig, so I doubt you'll have a problem but this is a place where having an expert opinion, even if you end up doing the work yourself, is worth the cost.

If you do end up coming to Maine, let me know if you plan to stop in Boston and I'll buy you a beer.

[Innocent Bystander]

I strongly recommend a halyard crane for spin halyards that takes the masthead block forward of the headstay to reduce/avoid chafe, particularly when you have a port spin on a stbd halyard and the lead from the masthead crosses over the headstay. To do that, you cut another slot a few feet down from masthead to provide a fair lead to the block on a crane. Next time you are down here, I'll show you what I did on my mast.

Basic masthead sheaves don't really do it, even if they have "wings".

[Ajax]

A spinnaker is a "nice to have", not vital. I have one spin halyard, on a crane and I'm satisfied with that.
These additional halyards will be redundant jib and main. I should have been more specific, sorry for that.

Ryley- Good idea. I think I'll take a range of photos and measurements and take them to Bacon Sails' rigger for a consult.

[stickboy]

I put internal halyards in when I made the new mast for Rita P. I put two exit plates for the jib but only ran one, I only put one exit plate for the main, the port aft masthead sheave is available. I think I staggered the exit plates a little over a foot. Put them wherever you want. Literally. Stand there and say "I think I want them here". Just don't put them all at the same elevation. That mast is a tree trunk, as long as you don't make a dotted line all the way around it you'll be fine.

[floating dutchman]

Just a thought Ajax, Spin halyard makes a good backup jib halyard.
That's one less hole to cut.

[SereneSpeed]

Ajax, if this is just for backup, have you considered running one line external, that could serve as both jib or main halyard. What I mean is... If you have two unused sheaves at your masthead, one in front of the other (you may have to shift the layout a bit) instead of running two lines internal to external, you could run one line external up the aft side and over both sheaves exiting out toward the bow. You would still have the same windage (one line fore and aft) but, you would not have to cut holes in your mast. If you don't add the shackles to the line until you need them, the line can be either a main, or jib halyard if/when you need it. Just a thought.

[boomer]

Two jib and two spin halyards on mine and about 18" apart vertically and about an inch and a half apart horizontally.

The spin halyards cutouts are a couple feet down from the crane as IB stated.

Buy your exit plates before you do the cutout, so you know what size to cut them.

[Ajax]

Good data here, thanks guys.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, I ran my halyards internal...I put the exits about 24" above the winches on the mast...they (exits & winches) are not at exactly the same height. You are cutting a 3/4" x 1 1/2" hole...

Also, I chose to drill& tap screws instead of rivets for the exit plates.

[Ajax]

Ajax, I ran my halyards internal...I put the exits about 24" above the winches on the mast...they (exits & winches) are not at exactly the same height. You are cutting a 3/4" x 1 1/2" hole...

Also, I chose to drill& tap screws instead of rivets for the exit plates.

Yes, rivets are 100% fucking verboten on any vessel in my fleet, no matter the application or what the load may be.

[Tom Ray]

Where do you find gimballed drink holders without rivets?

[Ajax]

Where do you find gimballed drink holders without rivets?

You drill 'em out and replace 'em with ss machine screws!

[boomer]

Drink holders! WTF are drink holders?

[Jose Carumba]

I never used exit plates at the bottom. I cut oval slots 3-4 inches long and about 1/4" wider than the diameter of the halyard then beveled the inside at the top and the outside at the bottom and radiused the corners all around. I made sure the bevels had a radius with no sharp edges. Doing this eliminated any possibility of stainless/aluminum corrosion. I posted a drawing of this in a similar discussion on this forum some time ago.

At the top I used a slot for the spinny halyard well below the swivel block (on a bail) so it led fair no matter the angle of the chute. The jib halyard went through a hole in the bottom of the masthead crane and around one of the forward sheaves while the main halyard went around one of the aft sheaves.

+1 on spacing the exits well apart. Also make sure you radius any corners of whatever holes you put in the mast to avoid a stress riser and subsequent cracking. I even broke the edges of any hole I put in aluminum.

Good luck. Not only will you eliminate some drag you will eliminate annoying halyard slap.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Jose...the first season I owned the boat I switched from wire halyards to all rope...When we were beating upwind in anything over 15 knots with external rope halyards and I had to use a sail tie to get the fu&$%ng halyard to stop slapping the mast, I knew that when I took the stick down the next winter to replace the standing rigging that I was going internal.

Ajax, I wil also comment that Jose is absolutely correct..there really is no necessity to have an exit plate. They are just pretty...if you are satisified with the hole(s) you cut..just smooth them out and off you go.

[4knotSB]

Drink holders! WTF are drink holders?

hands

[froggie]

Drink holders! WTF are drink holders?

hands

With Stainless Steel screws through them?
(I started to say "Jesus!", but I'd probably get crucified for that.)

[boomer]

If I can't finish a 12oz beer in a bottle before the next tack., it does fit nicely in one of the winch handle holders, the other one is a little tight, but works in a pinch.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Spot on, Boomer...10 oz. cans of Anheiser Busch products also fit nicely, as well as the "slim" 12 oz. cans of Mich Ultra, which are just tall 10 oz'ers.

[boomer]

Can't sail without beer, even if I'm drinking something else, it's nice to know it's there if needed.

[Ajax]

Guys-

I believe I've read in the past, where people have built tanks or structures out of foam, and then layed them up with epoxy or cloth and epoxy.

I'm considering building a holding tank this way. The tank will definitely have to be custom due to the funky shape. Assuming I'm not crazy, what kind of foam can I use to build the basic shape, that will react well to being coated with epoxy? Also, will I need to use it with cloth, or can I just coat with epoxy?

Thanks.

[SereneSpeed]

What's the shape?

I've used corecell and divinycell foam in the past with great results.

It might cost a fair bit by the time you use a proper foam core with epoxy and glass. It may be cheaper to get a pre-made tank or flexible bladder.

I'd think that with the forces a vacuum pump can create when emptying your tank, you would want a pretty strong structure.

Edit:
http://www.jamestown...ble Water Tanks

http://www.oceanlink...ks-water-tanks/

http://www.jamestown...ed Holding Tank

[boomer]

I've used Clark Foam Blanks of polyurethane for building surfboards and windsurfboards. So I would imagine any of the blue or pink polyurethane would work as well.

[SailAR]

What's the shape?

+1. a picture or better description of what you're trying to accomplish will probably yield substantially more helpful info.

Are you looking for something to build a mould with, so you can fit it and build outside?

[stickboy]

Makes me think of the Blue foam Dinghy project.
http://www.reocities...bfd/transom.htm

[Ajax]

What's the shape?

I've used corecell and divinycell foam in the past with great results.

It might cost a fair bit by the time you use a proper foam core with epoxy and glass. It may be cheaper to get a pre-made tank or flexible bladder.

I'd think that with the forces a vacuum pump can create when emptying your tank, you would want a pretty strong structure.

Edit:
http://www.jamestown...ble Water Tanks

http://www.oceanlink...ks-water-tanks/

http://www.jamestown...ed Holding Tank

Serene- Great links but none of them will fit the bill. If the tank is vented, then what forces will the tank see?

I guess a bladder would work, but does anyone here really trust them? Should I build a little enclsoure to protect the bladder, and also contain any leakage in case of failure?

What's the shape?

+1. a picture or better description of what you're trying to accomplish will probably yield substantially more helpful info.

Are you looking for something to build a mould with, so you can fit it and build outside?

It looks like this, with an added complication-

The hull curvature side of the tank, will also have "twist" in it as the hull moves forward towards the bow, so not a pure "wedge" or curved wedge.

This is going occupy about 1/4 of my hang-up locker, directly behind the toilet. I do not want to install a tank under the port setee.

Attached Files

•  Holdingtank.jpg   18.51K   6 downloads

[Slick470]

So what you are saying is that you don't like the arrangement that the boat came with?

[Steam Flyer]

... ...
I guess a bladder would work, but does anyone here really trust them? Should I build a little enclsoure to protect the bladder, and also contain any leakage in case of failure?

... ...

Bladder tanks make very poor sanitation holding tanks.
No ventilation=anaerobic bacteria=stink you wouldn't believe that pervades & clings to the whole inside of the boat.

http://cruisingresources.com/Marine_Toilets
Or google "Peggy Hall, Head Mistress" and check out some of the resources. She's the real deal on this topic.

FB- Doug

[Ishmael]

What's the shape?

I've used corecell and divinycell foam in the past with great results.

It might cost a fair bit by the time you use a proper foam core with epoxy and glass. It may be cheaper to get a pre-made tank or flexible bladder.

I'd think that with the forces a vacuum pump can create when emptying your tank, you would want a pretty strong structure.

Edit:
http://www.jamestown...ble Water Tanks

http://www.oceanlink...ks-water-tanks/

http://www.jamestown...ed Holding Tank

Serene- Great links but none of them will fit the bill. If the tank is vented, then what forces will the tank see?

I guess a bladder would work, but does anyone here really trust them? Should I build a little enclsoure to protect the bladder, and also contain any leakage in case of failure?

What's the shape?

+1. a picture or better description of what you're trying to accomplish will probably yield substantially more helpful info.

Are you looking for something to build a mould with, so you can fit it and build outside?

It looks like this, with an added complication-

The hull curvature side of the tank, will also have "twist" in it as the hull moves forward towards the bow, so not a pure "wedge" or curved wedge.

This is going occupy about 1/4 of my hang-up locker, directly behind the toilet. I do not want to install a tank under the port setee.

If you're going to coat the thing with epoxy and cloth, it doesn't really matter what the core is. Almost any foam will do, epoxy doesn't eat foam the way polyester resin does. Foam is light, but bulky and not strong for it's thickness. I'd go with stitch and glue 1/4" or 3/8" plywood.

[Ajax]

So what you are saying is that you don't like the arrangement that the boat came with?

You're crazy Slick. The "arrangement" that the boat came with, is a 5 gallon jerry can plumbed to a Y-valve because the boat is so old, that it wasn't built with a holding tank at all. The OEM configuration is direct overboard discharge. The jerry can sits in the hang-up locker, where I want the custom tank to be.

[Slick470]

So what you are saying is that you don't like the arrangement that the boat came with?

You're crazy Slick. The "arrangement" that the boat came with, is a 5 gallon jerry can plumbed to a Y-valve because the boat is so old, that it wasn't built with a holding tank at all. The OEM configuration is direct overboard discharge. The jerry can sits in the hang-up locker, where I want the custom tank to be.

Yup, that's what I remember it being. Sorta functional, but not pretty. Kinda a Red Green holding tank.

[SereneSpeed]

If the tank is vented, then what forces will the tank see?

A couple times, after a spirited sail, shit has worked it's way up the vent lines and dried out. Not only is it smelly, but it reduces the diameter of the vent line until we flush it out. I believe it's Peggy who suggests flushing the vent line at each pumpout. But, that's one way your tank could see some vacuum. I've also had bugs build nests in the vent through-hull.

[Ajax]

If the tank is vented, then what forces will the tank see?

A couple times, after a spirited sail, shit has worked it's way up the vent lines and dried out. Not only is it smelly, but it reduces the diameter of the vent line until we flush it out. I believe it's Peggy who suggests flushing the vent line at each pumpout. But, that's one way your tank could see some vacuum. I've also had bugs build nests in the vent through-hull.

Oh wow, thanks for pointing this out.

Slick- "Red Green" holding tank! LOL! At least there's no duct tape involved!

[Ishmael]

If the tank is vented, then what forces will the tank see?

A couple times, after a spirited sail, shit has worked it's way up the vent lines and dried out. Not only is it smelly, but it reduces the diameter of the vent line until we flush it out. I believe it's Peggy who suggests flushing the vent line at each pumpout. But, that's one way your tank could see some vacuum. I've also had bugs build nests in the vent through-hull.

Oh wow, thanks for pointing this out.

Slick- "Red Green" holding tank! LOL! At least there's no duct tape involved!

Not yet.

[Slick470]

don't forget the bailing wire.... gotta have that too

[steele]

^{I did a similar project this spring, here is the old post, http://forums.sailin...le#entry3669241. The ply was strong enough I did not use cloth, just epoxy. Foam would allow more flexability in tank shape, but with issues surrounding clogs etc, as well as the weight of a full tank (8.5 lbs/gal), cloth would probably be needed. Another option is to use cloth and thinner ply that could be curved to fit. This would allow a thinner walled tank and could be built using stitch and glue method.}

[toddster]

I thought about it, but amid the infinite number of projects to be completed this year... I just bought a bladder tank. It's vented. So far so good.

One problem with building a custom tank to fit an odd space under the settee or v-berth: How do you get it in there? You'd have to cut away a big section of the platform/deck, then repair it. Which adds a whole extra project. The PO of my boat chopped big ugly holes to try to get new tanks in place and they still didn't fit. I still have to fix those holes

[steele]

In my case I fit it through an opening meant to be storage access in the V berth. This was why I built my own tank, it was the bigest I could make it and still fit it through the hole. I was lucky in that it allowed a reasonable size tank, and the location was only a foot or 2 from the head.

[stickboy]

I'm sure we've chatted about this before but this is what Rita P came with forward of the water tank:

[Ajax]

Mmm...this doesn't sound familiar, SB but thanks for this information. I'll have to do some investigating to see if that'll fit. I'm not sure I have the same water tank you do. It sure would be nice if that were the solution.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, Do not reinvent the wheel...stickboy knows the deal here..that looks a lot like a diagram for a tank from Ronco.


I contacted them directly and got a great deal off retail pricing. they literally have hundreds of tank dimensions. I mocked up one for my holding tank with 1x2 lumber (overkill..furring strips would be fine) and duct tape to make sure it would fit where I wanted it to.

[Trendsetter]

Ajax, in regards to the holding tank and vent line, I would put an inline charcoal filter like this one from dometichttp://www.northeastsanitation.com/sanigard_filter_5_8inch.php. this will keep the smells at bay, well keep things from going up the vent line and clogging it as well.


as a side bar what ever became of Tern I moved up north to cape cod and always wondered what happened to the old girl?

[Ajax]

Ajax, Do not reinvent the wheel...stickboy knows the deal here..that looks a lot like a diagram for a tank from Ronco.


I contacted them directly and got a great deal off retail pricing. they literally have hundreds of tank dimensions. I mocked up one for my holding tank with 1x2 lumber (overkill..furring strips would be fine) and duct tape to make sure it would fit where I wanted it to.

Oh I agree. If Stickboy's tank will fit in front of my water tank, I'll probably go with it. There was some variation during the builds though, and I'm concerned that my water tank is a longer dimension than his, and that there is no room in front of it.

Ajax, in regards to the holding tank and vent line, I would put an inline charcoal filter like this one from dometichttp://www.northeastsanitation.com/sanigard_filter_5_8inch.php. this will keep the smells at bay, well keep things from going up the vent line and clogging it as well.

as a side bar what ever became of Tern I moved up north to cape cod and always wondered what happened to the old girl?

Trend-
I agree and thanks for the tip of the charcoal filter. Regarding Tern, the last I ever saw of her, was what appeared to be a test sail or delivery early this year. I was on Mrgnstrn's boat for a race, and I observed them motoring around outside of the race area, prior to our starting sequence. Haven't seen her since. I can't recall the sail/hull number, so I don't really know how to track her down.

[Ajax]

I'm sure we've chatted about this before but this is what Rita P came with forward of the water tank:

Stickboy,

Regarding your pump-out hose to the deck fitting, where is that located? If this tank is forward of your water tank, the only place I can envision, is up by the anchor locker. Is your pump-out deck fitting way up on the bow?

[Innocent Bystander]

Ajax, Do not reinvent the wheel...stickboy knows the deal here..that looks a lot like a diagram for a tank from Ronco.


I contacted them directly and got a great deal off retail pricing. they literally have hundreds of tank dimensions. I mocked up one for my holding tank with 1x2 lumber (overkill..furring strips would be fine) and duct tape to make sure it would fit where I wanted it to.

Oh I agree. If Stickboy's tank will fit in front of my water tank, I'll probably go with it. There was some variation during the builds though, and I'm concerned that my water tank is a longer dimension than his, and that there is no room in front of it.

Ajax, in regards to the holding tank and vent line, I would put an inline charcoal filter like this one from dometichttp://www.northeastsanitation.com/sanigard_filter_5_8inch.php. this will keep the smells at bay, well keep things from going up the vent line and clogging it as well.

as a side bar what ever became of Tern I moved up north to cape cod and always wondered what happened to the old girl?

Trend-
I agree and thanks for the tip of the charcoal filter. Regarding Tern, the last I ever saw of her, was what appeared to be a test sail or delivery early this year. I was on Mrgnstrn's boat for a race, and I observed them motoring around outside of the race area, prior to our starting sequence. Haven't seen her since. I can't recall the sail/hull number, so I don't really know how to track her down.

One thing to consider on the filters. Overfilling the tank will clog the filter, block the vent and require the filter to be replaced. They do work but you need to be vigilant.

[monsoon]

Ajax, Do not reinvent the wheel...stickboy knows the deal here..that looks a lot like a diagram for a tank from Ronco.


I contacted them directly and got a great deal off retail pricing. they literally have hundreds of tank dimensions. I mocked up one for my holding tank with 1x2 lumber (overkill..furring strips would be fine) and duct tape to make sure it would fit where I wanted it to.

What he said... http://www.plastic-m...ter-waste-tanks

They'll do a custom tank from a drawing for a very reasonable price and you won't get yourself covered in epoxy and glass fiber.

[kent_island_sailor]

Lectra-San?
My own boat and the P-30 really have no room for a decent holding tank unless you want less water and I always need MORE water. I think I only have 70 gallons and my wife can go right through that...........

[Trendsetter]

Lectra-sans are awesome when they are hooked up right and plumbed in correctly. now having said that do you really want to spend $1200-1400 doing that?!?! also they are a power HOG, run that thing more then two or three times while sailing and good luck getting the motor to start unless you are running a separate house bank

[Ajax]

Lectra-San? No, especially with the Chesapeake to be designated an NDZ, and legislature talking about making us tank our gray water.

Now a Lavac...that's a different story. Gatekeeper says he gets twice the holding time on his tank since he upgraded.