1046 replies to this topic

[Ajax]

Ok, the purpose of the New Shoes thread was to garner opinions on what kind of boat to buy. Now that the shopping agony is over with, I'm starting the usual rehab thread (in true Bitches fashion) to consolidate maintenance and upgrade questions and projects. There are still a lot of P-30's sailing out there, so maybe this will help someone in the future.

Currently, the boat is on hardstands and I'm in the pre-launch phase. The boat is very um, "original". That's good and no-so-good.

Electrical: Much to my surprise, the factory wiring is still tidy and wired to bus bars and terminal strips. I will probably replace the grounding bus bar for a cleaner, heavier one in the future. The factory switch/fuse bank with the Pearson logo is in decent shape, and I can even replace the fuse part and the individual switches if something looks sketchy. Where things get shitty, is when PO's added things, like the bilge pump, the VHF and the digital depth finder, and probably the electric fuel pump for the A-4 engine. These will be easy to tidy up and tie into the bus bars in an orderly fashion. There is a heavy duty "1/2/combine" marine battery switch. The batteries are poorly restrained and I'll have to fix that.

Hull penetrations: The engine raw water intake is an original bronze strainer/scooper thing that looks prone to clogging from algae. The bronze ball valve seacock in the engine compartent looks kind of light duty, (Slick said something about "residential grade") and it is grounded against stray current. Maybe I can buy a better valve to put on the through-hull. The seawater intake and overboard discharge (illegal in the Chesapeake) for the head are proper mushroom head through-hulls with bronze seacocks. These are also grounded against stray electrical current and in good shape. The head and galley sinks, and the cockpit drains all go to the factory glassed-in pipe nipples, connected with hoses and no valve of any kind. The cockpit drain and head sink pipe nipples are short, strong and not likely to be damaged. They are near or above the waterline. The galley sink pipe nipple is a large fiberglass standpipe on the center line so if it ever fails a lot of water is going to get in the boat. The bilge pump is an automatic Rule 500 gph model with integrated float switch and wired up with a manual override to force it to run if desired.

Rigging: I found where the chain plates anchor to in the cabin, and they all look like they've spent their entire lives dry. Original paint, with no water stains. The knees are dry and solid, the chain plates show no deformations, the fasteners are uncorroded, and painted over. The standing rigging has no cracked swages, no parted wires, no meathooks, corrosion is minimal. The halyards are wire/rope combo. The wires have no parted strands, kinks or meathooks. The rope will be replaced. All running rigging will be replaced.

Deck: All deck hardware is solidly installed, and bedded. I can get underneath virtually every piece, and nothing is dripping from recent rains and there are virtually no stains from water intrusion below decks. More bow cleats are called for. The winches are Lewmar 25 dual speeds. The traveler is a ball-bearing track type. There are inner and outer jib tracks. The jib leads have worn sheaves and look kind of light duty. The tiller and hardware are in fine shape. The deck around the mast is flawless. No stress cracks or gelcoat cracks. The mast step is in fine shape. The compression post is in fine shape. One window has a weepy seal that drips onto the galley counter top. The "tap test" all over the deck revealed no hollow or dull "thud" sounds. It's unscientific, but I believe the deck and cabin top are completely dry. There are no soft spots or deformations.

Auxiliary: The original A-4 is in place, the engine serial number doesn't seem to be embossed in the usual spot. The engine is clean and dry, with good red paint. It starts and runs at the bump of the starter button. It has an electric fuel pump that I suspect is an add-on. The cutlass bearing doesn't seem to have any slop. I will replace the shaft packing. The Martec folding prop seems to have some slop on the folding blade hinges, so I may install the spare, fixed prop and send it off to be rebuilt or something. The shaft zinc is brand-new.

Hull: The rudder bushings aren't great, but are serviceable. The rudder seems to have several tiny "pockmarks" like acne, and two small, minor cracks that need to be ground, filled, and faired. The rest of the hull is in fine shape. The anti-fouling paint is tired, and will be painted over.

Here are photos of my "concern areas":

[The Advocate]

Mmm, let me get a coffee.

[stickboy]

Quick, easy, and cheap: I'd get rid of that 90 degree elbow on your raw water intake, that's a good place for a clog. And if you have a 90 on the waterpump loose that too. But on the other hand, if you don't have a raw water filter those might be handy.

[Ajax]

Quick, easy, and cheap: I'd get rid of that 90 degree elbow on your raw water intake, that's a good place for a clog. And if you have a 90 on the waterpump loose that too. But on the other hand, if you don't have a raw water filter those might be handy.

Yikes, good point! An elbow is an unnecessary restriction. I'll look into removing it. Can you provide a link to an appropriate raw water filter that I would put in-line? I'm new to this inboard engine stuff.

Definitely follow this thread, I'm sure your advice will be invaluable.

[Gatekeeper]

These work well, and are very simple. At a glance you can see if the water is being drawn in...Jeez, I have a 90 degree also.

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[MoeAlfa]

Vetus is a common brand, but anything will work. More of a strainer than a filter. Mount it higher than the engine, like Gatekeeper's, or it'll be messy to clean.

[hard aground]

Don't remove the strainer from your raw water input. Know a couple of guys who did. They've occasionally spent some quality time cleaning leaves and other larger debris out of their intakes.

[slap]

I had a hose running from the raw water intake valve to a strainer. The hose was long enough that if I disconnected it from the strainer, I could hold the end above the waterline. That way if something got stuck in the intake, I could try to clear it with a thin rod down the hose.

[steele]

I have one of these, might be overkill, but works well and is easy to clean (I did it today in fact). made by Graco,

 arg-09-wv-400.jpg   99.46K   13 downloads

[Ajax]

Great, thanks guys.

[Tom Ray]

A strainer grate on the outside of the hull is a barnacle condominium.

No chainplates or other penetrations have ever leaked on a boat that old? Look again.

Scratch my earlier advice about a mini sledge and a wooden plug for that glassed in fitting. You're going to need the full sized sledge.

[Ajax]

A strainer grate on the outside of the hull is a barnacle condominium.

No chainplates or other penetrations have ever leaked on a boat that old? Look again.

Scratch my earlier advice about a mini sledge and a wooden plug for that glassed in fitting. You're going to need the full sized sledge.

Aside from the raw water strainer, what do you recommend? I do see myself making monthly or bi-weekly dives to keep the strainer grate clear.

I'm not saying that the chainplates have never leaked, only that it wasn't long enough to leave permanent stains or that they've been painted over. The paint seems pretty old. I get the impression that the boat was very lightly used. I'll snap pictures of the chain plates for fun.

[Innocent Bystander]

A strainer grate on the outside of the hull is a barnacle condominium.

No chainplates or other penetrations have ever leaked on a boat that old? Look again.

Scratch my earlier advice about a mini sledge and a wooden plug for that glassed in fitting. You're going to need the full sized sledge.

Aside from the raw water strainer, what do you recommend? I do see myself making monthly or bi-weekly dives to keep the strainer grate clear.

I'm not saying that the chainplates have never leaked, only that it wasn't long enough to leave permanent stains or that they've been painted over. The paint seems pretty old. I get the impression that the boat was very lightly used. I'll snap pictures of the chain plates for fun.

Ajax,

If it's the standard scoop strainer on the thru hull, it shouldn't be too much trouble. Spend a bit of time when you paint the botom and try to get a decent coat of paint on the inside with an acid brush. Whenever you dive on the boat you can check that it's clear. Check for build up of barnacles in the event the PO was lax in keeping after it. With that, the need for an internal strainer is diminished to a "nice to have" status as leaves, plastic bags, etc will either be sucked up against the scoop strainer or not picked up. You have time to decide and you can add one once you are in the water.

The ball valve is the pic does look like a standard residential water valve. My 31 had one of those and the only problem I had was the ferrus nut holding the handle on. Probably worth replacing while you are out of the water (simple replacement is a marelon valve). It can be replaced in the water if you put a cofferdam over the thru hull (hook to that strainer will allow you to tighten a simple cofferdam down) but is easier out of the water. If you can eliminate the elbow, that's fine but don't stress over it.

Edit. Consider leaving the folding prop on. It makes a huge difference in sailing performance in less than 10 knots of breeze.
.

[Gatekeeper]

A strainer grate on the outside of the hull is a barnacle condominium.

If you remove the strainer make sure to put it on the proper way...the slots go to the AFT side.

[stickboy]

Don't take off the strainer, it's your friend. Get a standard deck brush with stiff bristles and a wood handle (the metal ones rust in a week), you can reach and feel the strainer from the dinghy with that brush. You get better at finding it.. The Groco that Steele posted is the standard as far as I know, I went with 3/4 but I tend to overkill everything. I'll try to post some pics but my setup is different because my through hull is on the other side of the engine.

Having brought attention to the 90, I'll admit mine has a 90, too. But for a good reason. I have a T fitting there that I put a garden hose on the other side for winterizing. I even leave the length of hose that I use to put in the 5 gallon bucket for winterizing right on the fitting now. It was handy in troubleshooting a lack of waterflow earlier, I flipped from raw water to garden hose and stuck it in the bilge and everything was fine. That's when I found out you can reach the hull strainer with the deck brush .

Can you get the dipstick back in the hole yet? Unless you have the dipstick extension that's a job with your eyes closed.

[Ajax]

Will a marelon valve fit on those threads? I thought there was some npt conflict?

Will a marelon valve fit on those threads? I thought there was some npt conflict?

[Joli]

Always like the Pearson 30, congrats on the new ride!

[kent_island_sailor]

http://www.moyermarine.com/ - THE source for all things A4 and also http://www.atomic4.com/


We used to own a Pearson 30. Great boat!
A friend owns one still. He put on the 3 blade Indigo prop and loves it.
Pearson did a pretty good job designing and building that boat.

[stickboy]

Will a marelon valve fit on those threads? I thought there was some npt conflict?

Will a marelon valve fit on those threads? I thought there was some npt conflict?

Don't really see the advantage of going Marelon there. You still have the bronze through hull and that's what you worry about rotting out from under you. But I've been wrong lots of times.

[Ajax]

I believe I have dug all the remains of the old shaft packing out. How do I install the new stuff???

[Ajax]

Never mind, found Mainesails article...

[Tom Ray]

A strainer grate on the outside of the hull is a barnacle condominium.

No chainplates or other penetrations have ever leaked on a boat that old? Look again.

Scratch my earlier advice about a mini sledge and a wooden plug for that glassed in fitting. You're going to need the full sized sledge.

Aside from the raw water strainer, what do you recommend? I do see myself making monthly or bi-weekly dives to keep the strainer grate clear.

I'm not saying that the chainplates have never leaked, only that it wasn't long enough to leave permanent stains or that they've been painted over. The paint seems pretty old. I get the impression that the boat was very lightly used. I'll snap pictures of the chain plates for fun.

I like a nice, round hole instead of a grate on the hull.

You might have one that never leaked, but that would be very rare. If you have to check twice, you're already pretty lucky. Often the problem is identified by trails of black ooze. Pretty hard to miss.

[Ajax]

Stickboy, what size packing do you use? Mine totally disintegrated upon removal.

[Jose Carumba]

In the meantime don't neglect Old Shoes...

Attached Files

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[Ajax]

In the meantime don't neglect Old Shoes...

Not at all, I was just down on her today. Hard to forget the little boat that could...

[Ajax]

I worked a half day, and spent the afternoon working on the Pearson. I repaired the non-functional depth finder, and cleaned up a bunch of add-on wiring. I wanted to paint, but the yard office was closed, and I wanted to chat with them about their environmental requirements before slapping on the toxic paint.

In retrospect, I wish I'd just painted because next, I attempted to tackle the shaft seal packing. I crawled into the starboard locker, and lay along the propeller shaft with my face even with the gland nut. It's 90F, and I was sweating like a ...well, never mind. Despite the cruddy look, the bronze gland nuts came apart without too much hassle. I spent the next 2 hours digging old-style, flax packing out of the nut. I used a tiny flat head screwdriver, and a pick. The old seal disintegrated, and came out in fuzzy pieces instead of a nice ring. Every time I thought I'd gotten it all, I could feel and hear the wisp of old seal rubbing on the prop shaft. I think I've finally gotten it all now.

I've looked at the Compass Marine how-to, and I think I've got it, but I just can't tell from the remains, what size packing I should use. I have 3/16th and 1/4" gore-tex packing. I didn't have a razor knife, so I called it a day and went home to cool off and clean up.

Oh- I also attempted to improve the raw water seacock situation and failed. The bronze hull scoop through-hull and the residential ball valve are 3/8th". Worst Marine doesn't stock, nor carry in their catalog a bronze 3/8th" barbed tail pipe that I could put in place of the 90-degree elbow. Nor do they carry a 3/8th" Marelon ball valve, or even 3/8th" Marelon barbed tailpipe to eliminate the elbow.

My options are: Leave it the fuck alone, or embark on the huge pain in the ass of upgrading everything- the bronze scoop/through-hull to 1/2", install a 1/2" Marelon ball valve with the proper barbed tailpipe. This also means enlarging the hull hole to 1/2".

Please look at the pics of the packing and help me make an educated guess as to which size I should use, and any helpful hints for getting the packing into the nut correctly.
For Tom, there are chain plate pictures.

[Tom Ray]

You're gonna miss that outboard.

[Tom Ray]

By the way, that chainplate looks ridiculously overbuilt and if you ever manage to tear one of those out under sail, you really deserved it.

[Gatekeeper]

IMHO...forget the through hull and move on. Keep an eye on it, and plan to replace it in the future. You can't do everything at once, and I expect she'll sail just as well if you leave it alone.

Measure the shaft. Measure the ID of the stuffing box....divide by 2 and you have the proper packing. If that doesn't go well, buy a PSS.

You are trying to do too much, too fast...you remind me on me.

[Cherie320]

Ajax - you have both sizes - just do a test fit by slipping the end between the gland and the shaft. Use the one that fits. Bet is the 3/16" size. Don't over tighten it and keep an eye on the drip rate until you run it a while. Should run almost drip free when you get it right.

[Innocent Bystander]

IMHO...forget the through hull and move on. Keep an eye on it, and plan to replace it in the future. You can't do everything at once, and I expect she'll sail just as well if you leave it alone.

Measure the shaft. Measure the ID of the stuffing box....divide by 2 and you have the proper packing. If that doesn't go well, buy a PSS.

You are trying to do too much, too fast...you remind me on me.

What he said for the thru hull . Sorry I brought it up.

Measure or test fit the packing.

Yard is used to bottom paint. Don't ask. Just do it.

[stickboy]

Ajax, wish I could remember what size the packing is but i just don't. I seem to remember trying one size and not being sure, then the next size was so perfect there was no question in my mind. Gatekeeper has a good approach measuring it if you can see it. I'd go th the boat to check what is in the box but that could just as easily be the wrong stuff (I save everything,not always good).

I access that whole area around the stuffing box from the quarter berth. I take out the grate between the quarterberth and the engine and take out the bulkhead at the back of the quarterberth. Then I back into the quarterberth (hook your toes over that little bulkhead way back there) until I can dive my torso into the same position you were in from starboard,only it's a little more comfortable laying in the quarterberth on a throwable cushion. I've got this down to two screws to get out the grate and 4 screws to get out the aft bulkhead. Man, you must have been some kind of upside down doing that from the starboard locker.

[Ajax]

IMHO...forget the through hull and move on. Keep an eye on it, and plan to replace it in the future. You can't do everything at once, and I expect she'll sail just as well if you leave it alone.

Measure the shaft. Measure the ID of the stuffing box....divide by 2 and you have the proper packing. If that doesn't go well, buy a PSS.

You are trying to do too much, too fast...you remind me on me.

What he said for the thru hull . Sorry I brought it up.

Measure or test fit the packing.

Yard is used to bottom paint. Don't ask. Just do it.

Don't be sorry, keeping water outside of the people space is important! It seems secure enough for now, as long as that coated brass ball in the valve doesn't disintegrate.
I'll do my best to test-fit the packing... Cherie says it should slip through the gap between the gland nut and the shaft? I really think I would have had a bad leak with the old stuff.

After the stuffing box, paint and launch! Bear with me a little longer, I'm just nervous. You guys all get jitters on Launching Day?

[Monster Mash]

By the way, that chainplate looks ridiculously overbuilt and if you ever manage to tear one of those out under sail, you really deserved it.

That would rise a flag for me. Anything that is painted over is suspect. May look rediculously overbuilt to some but I'd want a core sample to make sure it isn't rotting out with a bunch of paint slapped over it. Btw it looks a lot like bilge paint to me.

[stickboy]

Ajax, wish I could remember what size the packing is but i just don't. I seem to remember trying one size and not being sure, then the next size was so perfect there was no question in my mind. Gatekeeper has a good approach measuring it if you can see it. I'd go th the boat to check what is in the box but that could just as easily be the wrong stuff (I save everything,not always good).

I access that whole area around the stuffing box from the quarter berth. I take out the grate between the quarterberth and the engine and take out the bulkhead at the back of the quarterberth. Then I back into the quarterberth (hook your toes over that little bulkhead way back there) until I can dive my torso into the same position you were in from starboard,only it's a little more comfortable laying in the quarterberth on a throwable cushion. I've got this down to two screws to get out the grate and 4 screws to get out the aft bulkhead. Man, you must have been some kind of upside down doing that from the starboard locker.

[stickboy]

By the way, that chainplate looks ridiculously overbuilt and if you ever manage to tear one of those out under sail, you really deserved it.

That would rise a flag for me. Anything that is painted over is suspect. May look rediculously overbuilt to some but I'd want a core sample to make sure it isn't rotting out with a bunch of paint slapped over it. Btw it looks a lot like bilge paint to me.

Mine looks just like that, right down to the paint. The entire rig on the boat is way over sized. The mast is the same section used on the 35.

But that broom handle clothes hanging rod is gross

[memopad]

Paint it, repack stuffing, sail the bugger!

[Ajax]

Ajax, wish I could remember what size the packing is but i just don't. I seem to remember trying one size and not being sure, then the next size was so perfect there was no question in my mind. Gatekeeper has a good approach measuring it if you can see it. I'd go th the boat to check what is in the box but that could just as easily be the wrong stuff (I save everything,not always good).

I access that whole area around the stuffing box from the quarter berth. I take out the grate between the quarterberth and the engine and take out the bulkhead at the back of the quarterberth. Then I back into the quarterberth (hook your toes over that little bulkhead way back there) until I can dive my torso into the same position you were in from starboard,only it's a little more comfortable laying in the quarterberth on a throwable cushion. I've got this down to two screws to get out the grate and 4 screws to get out the aft bulkhead. Man, you must have been some kind of upside down doing that from the starboard locker.

Ok, I'll get it figured out. THANK YOU for the tip on access. I am tore up from laying on raw, unpainted fiberglass.

[floating dutchman]

Can you say Itchy? Cold shower, Works on wool-glass insulation from climbing in roof spaces in houses.

Sounds like most things are progressing well,

[Tom Ray]

IMHO...forget the through hull and move on. Keep an eye on it, and plan to replace it in the future.

I would leave it alone forever. On closer inspection, the hose is not clamped to the tube that is glassed into the hull, but to the glassing itself. The tube is just being used as a form, and his hose is clamped right to the hull, in effect. Fiberglass is incredibly tough stuff. I meant what I said about the full sized sledge.

[Tom Ray]

By the way, that chainplate looks ridiculously overbuilt and if you ever manage to tear one of those out under sail, you really deserved it.

That would rise a flag for me. Anything that is painted over is suspect. May look rediculously overbuilt to some but I'd want a core sample to make sure it isn't rotting out with a bunch of paint slapped over it. Btw it looks a lot like bilge paint to me.

Actually, I agree that paint can raise a flag, and it's comforting to hear that another boat looks just like that, including the bilge paint. My point about that chainplate is that even if the wood inside rotted, the roving laid over it is probably strong enough to handle the loads. Not recommending that, just commenting again on how tough that stuff can be.

Yeah, I've been tearing up boats again. See Fix It Anarchy. Today's plan: remove 400 lb engine, remove 400 lb glassed-down bench seat, cut large hole in deck, remove nasty foam, remove 10' long fuel tank, clean resulting hole. Setting up a GoPro to capture the whole thing in time lapse.

I'm expecting fiberglass roving to be annoyingly tough, as usual.

[Ajax]

Since the Pearson is meant to be an enduring purchase, my mind is turning to cosmetic issues. This boat has a host of offenses against Neptune that I'm trying to remedy-

1. Original ship's bell, with original name and owner's names engraved on it, still on the boat. (Sunday Sun)
2. Current name (Sea Wooluf) on the stern, in flaking, vinyl lettering.
3. What appears to be the original name, or yet another intermediate name and homeport in vinyl lettering under a coat of paint.

I have removed the offending bell.
I can easily remove the Sea Wooluf lettering.
What grit of sand paper should I use to remove the paint and painted over vinyl lettering of the other name?

I want to get the name and graphic that you all helped develop, on the boat.

[crash]

Ajax,
Are just the letters of the old name painted over, or Is just the transom painted, or is the whole hull painted? That answer might modify your approach.

What grit kinda depends on what kind of paint (and how much). General rule of thumb is as fine a grit as possible that takes it off, unless you are planning to repaint the entire hull. Then 60 or 80 grit is the place to start

As I suspect you only want to remove the paint and old names on the transom (or even a smaller area then that), I would start with a rubbing compound - which will work pretty well on plain old "bootstripe enamel" and if that doesn't work, jump up to something around 600 grit wet, then 400, etc. Idea is to use the least aggressive paper/compound possible to minimize any damage to underlying gel coat...

Once you get old paint off, then you need to go "in reverse" to polish up the old gel coat. So if you ended up getting it off with 400 grit wet, then step back thru 600 to 1000 to rubbing compound to polishing compound to put new name one, to wax. Just a transom should be able to be done in less than a day...
Crash

[Tom Ray]

If you want to get some tabbing made of fiberglass roving off, here's one fun way: a chisel and mini sledge.



Pow, pow, pow!



Pretty impressive stuff, really. (In Monty Python voice) It's wafer thin!



Yet it takes quite a beating if you really want it off!

[Greever]

That's where the Fein multimaster comes in Tom.

Ajax: I thought you said the gelcoat was original? Is the gelcoat possibly just sunfaded/stained with the old name?

[Ajax]

The stern is definitely painted. The old, old letters show as raised bumps under the paint. I mean, I could easily strip the Sea Wooluf letters off, and probably no one would see the letters under the paint but...

[boomer]

I'd sand it and re-paint the stern only.

[Slick470]

Ajax, raised lettering shadows on transoms don't always mean painted over lettering. Yours could be, but look carefully. In the right light I can just barely make out two previous names on our transom I know that our boat hasn't been painted.

Basically, the vinyl lettering protects the gelcoat underneath and the surrounding gelcoat slowly wears away. The longer the name is on the boat the more distinct the raised lettering affect can be.

Edit: Before I get tempting fate comments, we haven't renamed our boat yet. It did not have a name on it when we purchased and other than the shadow on the stern, nothing on the boat mentions the previous names. Prior to putting on the new name, (with proper ceremonies of course) I'll try to get the previous name shadows to go away by compounding the transom. Its all on the long, long list.

[sculpin]

I'd sand it and re-paint the stern only.

+1

And I'd be eager to do it soon if I were in your shoes (pun intended). Nothing says "my boat" better than having a name on it that you came up with.

[Greever]

It does suck that he has ro get rid of the original ships bell to change the name...

Slick: I can also just make out the two previous names on my original gelcoat. One of these years I'll try the wetsanding trick...

[Cherie320]

Ajax - we had our painted lettering removed by the team that installed the new vinyl lettering. They scraped off the majority of the paint with a razor knife and finished the job with 400 and then 600 wet sanding. After seeing it done, it's not near as scary as I thought it would be. If you have a painted transom, I agree with Boomer. Sand it and repaint. However, if it's faded gellcoat, try the wet sand approach and see what you get. You can always paint it.

Now about this remove the bell thing. You can never obliterate the history of a boat and there is a better way. "Sunday Sun and Sea Wooluf you served your owners well and will always be remembered when they recall their time with you. From this day forward for the life of our ownership you will lovingly be known as OLD SHOES in recognition of how you will continue to keep us safe and comfortable throughout our sailing endeavors. Our pledge to you is to maintain, restore, and improve you in the mannor you deserve." The ceremony requires a toast of adult beaverage "TO OLD SHOES" and an offering by the captain to the sea is required to seal the deal. Since OLD SHOES is of drinking age, a glass for the boat is an appropriate addition.

Whatever you decide, enjoy the ride. By the time you get all this done, you will have earned it.

[Tom Ray]

How old does the boat have to be before you just give it a glass of prune juice at the ceremony?

[Cherie320]

How old does the boat have to be before you just give it a glass of prune juice at the ceremony?

Tom - now that's a right good question. Sounds like something that should be in the surveyors report under required maintenance.

[Innocent Bystander]

How old does the boat have to be before you just give it a glass of prune juice at the ceremony?

Tom - now that's a right good question. Sounds like something that should be in the surveyors report under required maintenance.

I know that a boat built in 73 is not ready as I was a couple of years into the Navy when she first got wet and I'm not ready for prune juice yet.

[Bruce T. Shark]

Way to go Ajax, I owned Hull 393 for about 20 years and was the 3rd owner. She sits with her new owner 2 docks away from the new Stardancer.

I used a 3/4 inch strainer, and removed the old intake strainer and never looked back. BTW a manager in the SSN design group had turned his intake strainer backwards (slits to the stern) i figured he was doing that to improve his speed on his P28 (i think he won the Labrot trophy too), so i removed mine.

A good test of whether or not water is in the knees is if you unbolt the chainplates and pull them out - if they are old and rusty then u have water, but the fiberglass is still good, but in any even you can buff them up - if ur worried.

As for packing use the biggest that will fit in the space - and then follow the instructions exactly as if you tighten it up too tight you can wear the shaft down - it happened on a friends catalina 30.

The rudder may have some slop - Rig Rite or D&M (or D&R) marine in mass has the original delrin bushings if you must. I did the P26 trick of using graphite/epoxy on the shaft and made the bushing fit.

The other problem area is the compression post - it is oak, but the foot may have been soft if the bilge was wet at all.
The ice box could have had better insulation - stickboy has the fix he cruised his a lot and raced, i raced and did deliveries..(grin and Stickboy and his Lovely wife have raced with us)...

Wish you were around a few years ago coulda had fun with the Annapolis crowd. I counted over 45 P30s registered within 30 miles of Annapolis, but we had a tough time finding 5 to race one design with..oh well..

[Windward]

On a strainer, what is the approved direction for the slits to face? Forward or aft?

Seems like both would work.

[Tom Ray]

On a strainer, what is the approved direction for the slits to face? Forward or aft?

Seems like both would work.

Forward, and they seem most useful to me on boats that are fast enough for the answer to be very obvious. Planing boats can usually shed bags and weeds off external strainers, but they can stick at sailboat speeds.

[Ajax]

45 P-30's in the area??? What a sight that would be...

Slick and I checked the base of the compression post, and it's good and solid. I am confident about it. This afternoon, I completed the stuffing box job. The 3/16th packing was the correct size and this allowed me to get 3 rings of packing into the gland nut. Maine Sail's and Don Casey's online tutorials were a great help. I doubt I did as good a job as Maine Sail, but at least I aspired to his level of precision. I made sure not to tighten it too much, and it'll be the first thing I check when the boat is wet. The prop shaft did not have a groove worn in it, and it seemed in decent condition.

Guess what I discovered? The head seawater intake and overboard discharge seacocks are tapered cone seacocks (NTTAWWT). I thought the valve bodies looked kind of odd, and then I saw them on the Compass Marine site. They certainly are beefy.

Tomorrow after work, I will spot-sand and clean the hull in preparation for painting on Saturday. I will paint on Saturday, and talk to the yard manager about launching next week!

[sculpin]

Guess what I discovered? The head seawater intake and overboard discharge seacocks are tapered cone seacocks (NTTAWWT). I thought the valve bodies looked kind of odd, and then I saw them on the Compass Marine site. They certainly are beefy.

Hey Ajax
Tapered cone seacocks like to be well greased. Boy does that sound bad. But anyway... if they aren't then they will leak (drip) after you launch. Ask me how I know this! Anyway, that was year one of ownership, they are great now. Two ways to go, one is if there are plugs on either side of the seacock, see if they will take a screw in grease fitting. I temporarily installed a fitting, clipped on the grease gun, and cranked some grease in. Replace plug and move the grease fitting to the other side, repeat. The seacock must be in the open position for this. If you can't do that you might want to take them apart and grease the mating surfaces.

Ah, new boat fun!

[stickboy]

You might recognize the writing style:
http://forums.sbo.sa...ghlight=tapered plug

[Tom Ray]

45 P-30's in the area??? What a sight that would be...

Call them together for a race and call it the National Championships. It was good enough for the Corsair folks, so I adopted the tactic.

[Ajax]

I wish I could see the photos in his article at work.

My cone seacocks have a locking screw that is used to prevent the handle from being operated once it's in the desired position. I'll have to look at them again to see if there are screws for grease fittings.

[Gatekeeper]

On a strainer, what is the approved direction for the slits to face? Forward or aft?

Seems like both would work.

AFT!! If they are faced forward...in rare circumstances they can drag water up into the engine. I'm told by a marine tech that if there are missing vanes on the water pump (raw water engine) that it can fill the exhaust and hydro lock the engine.

They go aft. Period.

[sculpin]

I wish I could see the photos in his article at work.

My cone seacocks have a locking screw that is used to prevent the handle from being operated once it's in the desired position. I'll have to look at them again to see if there are screws for grease fittings.

Hey Ajax
The screws aren't "for" grease fittings, I used them as such 'cause the boat was in the water and the seacock was leaking. It stopped the leaking for that season but I rebuilt that seacock at next haulout. Had to lap that one to clean it up.

Probably best to take them apart, inspect, and grease.
One thing that MS doesn't mention is that it is possible to build up a ridge that stops the taper from going any further into the body, if you have a tapered plug with a ridge on it, best to remove it (file it off gently)

If you have to use lapping compound to clean them up one thing I found worked well was to use a ratchet to turn the plug - allows you to put some pressure on it and turn it fairly easily. I used valve compound for my lapping compound, got some from a buddy who rebuilds engines.

[Bruce T. Shark]

I wish I could see the photos in his article at work.

My cone seacocks have a locking screw that is used to prevent the handle from being operated once it's in the desired position. I'll have to look at them again to see if there are screws for grease fittings.

They are tapered PLUGS (sorry) you can easily service now by tapping GENTLY against the nut side after removing the nut and the BIG bronze washer under it. Use a wooden dowel to tap out or better yet a PVC Pipe the size of the plug (I um er..tattooed one getting it out). To do maintenance on it, just run a piece of fine emery cloth/wet sandpaper over it (like 300 grit) to remove corrosion and then liberally coat with a good grade of water proof grease and re-install. If it starts to leak when boat is in the water GENTLY tighen up 1 flat of the nut at a time to seat the plug firmer - make sure you can still turn it.

On a seperate note, your head sink, cockpit drains and sink drains are all nothing more than fiberglass tubes installed flush with the hull. If you sand too much around them, it may start to leak - (um er yes - did that to head sink)...just an fyi - i had some waterproof epoxy that fixed it right up, plus i had DC plugs tied to all the thru hulls.


Your engine intake strainer may have a little grounding stud that goes thru the hull if you look carefully, the originally came that way - parents bought hull 117 brand new..a long freakin time ago!

[ICBT]

On a strainer, what is the approved direction for the slits to face? Forward or aft?

Seems like both would work.

AFT!! If they are faced forward...in rare circumstances they can drag water up into the engine. I'm told by a marine tech that if there are missing vanes on the water pump (raw water engine) that it can fill the exhaust and hydro lock the engine.

They go aft. Period.

+1

[Schnick]

On a strainer, what is the approved direction for the slits to face? Forward or aft?

Seems like both would work.

AFT!! If they are faced forward...in rare circumstances they can drag water up into the engine. I'm told by a marine tech that if there are missing vanes on the water pump (raw water engine) that it can fill the exhaust and hydro lock the engine.

They go aft. Period.

Had this happen once last year. Not good. Next haulout I am removing that frickin thing!

[stickboy]

They are tapered PLUGS (sorry) you can easily service now by tapping GENTLY against the nut side after removing the nut and the BIG bronze washer under it. Use a wooden dowel to tap out or better yet a PVC Pipe the size of the plug (I um er..tattooed one getting it out). To do maintenance on it, just run a piece of fine emery cloth/wet sandpaper over it (like 300 grit) to remove corrosion and then liberally coat with a good grade of water proof grease and re-install. If it starts to leak when boat is in the water GENTLY tighen up 1 flat of the nut at a time to seat the plug firmer - make sure you can still turn it.

the important thing is don't hammer the 'bolt'. I put the nuts back on after removing the washer and hit those, they protect the threads on the 'bolt' part. You just need to break it free, you won't need to hammer it all the way out since it's tapered.

And like the Shark says, you learn some of this from experience

[mrgnstrn]

Ajax, raised lettering shadows on transoms don't always mean painted over lettering. Yours could be, but look carefully. In the right light I can just barely make out two previous names on our transom I know that our boat hasn't been painted.

Basically, the vinyl lettering protects the gelcoat underneath and the surrounding gelcoat slowly wears away. The longer the name is on the boat the more distinct the raised lettering affect can be.

Edit: Before I get tempting fate comments, we haven't renamed our boat yet. It did not have a name on it when we purchased and other than the shadow on the stern, nothing on the boat mentions the previous names. Prior to putting on the new name, (with proper ceremonies of course) I'll try to get the previous name shadows to go away by compounding the transom. Its all on the long, long list.

Ditto. I have 2 previous names and 2 previous hailing ports in slightly raised gelcoat on the stern.

-M

[Beau.Vrolyk]

On a strainer, what is the approved direction for the slits to face? Forward or aft?

Seems like both would work.

Windward,

Unlike powerboats, the strainer can cause problems if the slits face forwards. In a powerboat the engine is always sucking the water in and blowing it out the tail pile. But in a sailboat that goes fast under sail you can have water being rammed into the intake while the engine is off. If you have a open path to the exhaust pipe, meaning that you don't have a
Positive displacement raw water pump, then you can ram water into the exhaust until you fill the exhaust and then the engine - a bad thing. So, the way to set the strainer depends upon the type of water pump you have and the speed of your boat under sail.

Beau

[Ajax]

Ajax, raised lettering shadows on transoms don't always mean painted over lettering. Yours could be, but look carefully. In the right light I can just barely make out two previous names on our transom I know that our boat hasn't been painted.

Basically, the vinyl lettering protects the gelcoat underneath and the surrounding gelcoat slowly wears away. The longer the name is on the boat the more distinct the raised lettering affect can be.

Edit: Before I get tempting fate comments, we haven't renamed our boat yet. It did not have a name on it when we purchased and other than the shadow on the stern, nothing on the boat mentions the previous names. Prior to putting on the new name, (with proper ceremonies of course) I'll try to get the previous name shadows to go away by compounding the transom. Its all on the long, long list.

Ditto. I have 2 previous names and 2 previous hailing ports in slightly raised gelcoat on the stern.

-M

Ok, I've checked again. The shadows are just that, shadows of where letters used to be, not painted over. I'll scrape off the current name, and polish the hell out of it and put the new name on.

Plus, today is painting day!

[mrgnstrn]

Ajax, raised lettering shadows on transoms don't always mean painted over lettering. Yours could be, but look carefully. In the right light I can just barely make out two previous names on our transom I know that our boat hasn't been painted.

Basically, the vinyl lettering protects the gelcoat underneath and the surrounding gelcoat slowly wears away. The longer the name is on the boat the more distinct the raised lettering affect can be.

Edit: Before I get tempting fate comments, we haven't renamed our boat yet. It did not have a name on it when we purchased and other than the shadow on the stern, nothing on the boat mentions the previous names. Prior to putting on the new name, (with proper ceremonies of course) I'll try to get the previous name shadows to go away by compounding the transom. Its all on the long, long list.

Ditto. I have 2 previous names and 2 previous hailing ports in slightly raised gelcoat on the stern.

-M

Ok, I've checked again. The shadows are just that, shadows of where letters used to be, not painted over. I'll scrape off the current name, and polish the hell out of it and put the new name on.

Plus, today is painting day!

oh by the way...I did notice that the vent fitting on the hull on the port side, near the toe rail is looking pretty...uh...disintegrated. should probably replace so that rain water and sea spray aren't back-filling whatever tank is at the other end of that fitting. would major league suck if it was fuel tank!!!

-M

[Gatekeeper]

Had this happen once last year. Not good. Next haulout I am removing that frickin thing!

The nice thing about having it there, and FACING AFT...if it does smother with weeds etc. they tend to be able to drift of once the suction is removes...if they stuff the inlet they are harder to remove. Even if you have to dive on it, grabbing a handful of crap off the strainer is easier than trying to dig it out of an inlet valve and water pump.

There is no perfect situation...I like the strainer in place, but it does create it's own problems.

[Ajax]

oh by the way...I did notice that the vent fitting on the hull on the port side, near the toe rail is looking pretty...uh...disintegrated. should probably replace so that rain water and sea spray aren't back-filling whatever tank is at the other end of that fitting. would major league suck if it was fuel tank!!!

-M

It vents the shit tank. I'll get it replaced.

[Ajax]

Paid my yard bill, made an appointment for Launching Day- this Tuesday, August 16th at high noon. I scraped at any loose paint, gave the hull a pass with a new sander, scrubbed and washed and painted.

From this:



To this:




The rudder is not yet done. The rain came, so I didn't get to buzz the weird "acne" on the rudder with the sander. I'll finish that job tomorrow. I'll paint the patches where the stands are, on Tuesday when the boat is hanging in the slings. Fingers crossed, people.

[stickboy]

Oooo, dig the Shark White! It turns green above the water but so what.
The boat looks GREAT!
Check with me before you buy anything. I've got STUFF,

[Kaptainkriz]

I've got STUFF,

[steele]

I Agee, the white red and grey looks great.

[Tom Ray]

Had this happen once last year. Not good. Next haulout I am removing that frickin thing!

The nice thing about having it there, and FACING AFT...if it does smother with weeds etc. they tend to be able to drift of once the suction is removes...if they stuff the inlet they are harder to remove. Even if you have to dive on it, grabbing a handful of crap off the strainer is easier than trying to dig it out of an inlet valve and water pump.

Diving on it when the water is below 80 and/or it's night is for emergencies only. I like a straight seacock with easy access to remove the hose and poke it out. I might get a face full of water, but I'll stay aboard. A grate is a poker preventer.

[Gatekeeper]

Ajax.

Handsome boat for sure. I'm delighted for you....this is a boat you can invest too much time, and too much money in...resale means nothing if you have no intention of ever selling her...at least that's what I keep telling myself.


Tom...good points.

[Innocent Bystander]

Looks great Ajax.

[Ajax]

Oooo, dig the Shark White! It turns green above the water but so what.
The boat looks GREAT!
Check with me before you buy anything. I've got STUFF,

Aw shit, does it really?? I wonder why that is? Here's hoping the rain holds off long enough for me to finish the rudder today.

Dude, your boat is positively inspiring. Normally, I don't pay much attention to cosmetics, or they are the last thing on the priority list after safety and performance, but I am absolutely going to pursue cosmetics with a vengeance on this boat. She and I are together for the long haul, so I'm going to do it right.

[Beer Fueled Mayhem]

Oooo, dig the Shark White! It turns green above the water but so what.
The boat looks GREAT!
Check with me before you buy anything. I've got STUFF,

Aw shit, does it really?? I wonder why that is? Here's hoping the rain holds off long enough for me to finish the rudder today.

Dude, your boat is positively inspiring. Normally, I don't pay much attention to cosmetics, or they are the last thing on the priority list after safety and performance, but I am absolutely going to pursue cosmetics with a vengeance on this boat. She and I are together for the long haul, so I'm going to do it right.

You might know this but...
In Seattle we put 1 to 1.5 inch masking tape just above the waterline and make like a little gutter (maybe not so much a gutter but a flange) out of it and go all the way around the boat. As long as it is not raining sideways, you can paint. Usually.

[Quotidian]

Looking great Bub, er, Ajax.
You will be ready for fall racing.

[Ajax]

Looking great Bub, er, Ajax.
You will be ready for fall racing.

Meh, maybe. The mainsail is very tired. Lots to do first...

[stickboy]

Looking great Bub, er, Ajax.
You will be ready for fall racing.

Meh, maybe. The mainsail is very tired. Lots to do first...

Hmm... You need a main huh?

[stickboy]

Oooo, dig the Shark White! It turns green above the water but so what.
The boat looks GREAT!
Check with me before you buy anything. I've got STUFF,

Aw shit, does it really?? I wonder why that is?

It's the copper oxidizing. I had Shark White on the last boat.

[Ajax]

Looking great Bub, er, Ajax.
You will be ready for fall racing.

Meh, maybe. The mainsail is very tired. Lots to do first...

Hmm... You need a main huh?

Yyyyyeah... why, what do you know?

[Tom Ray]

Oooo, dig the Shark White! It turns green above the water but so what.
The boat looks GREAT!
Check with me before you buy anything. I've got STUFF,

Aw shit, does it really?? I wonder why that is? Here's hoping the rain holds off long enough for me to finish the rudder today.

Dude, your boat is positively inspiring. Normally, I don't pay much attention to cosmetics, or they are the last thing on the priority list after safety and performance, but I am absolutely going to pursue cosmetics with a vengeance on this boat. She and I are together for the long haul, so I'm going to do it right.

You might know this but...
In Seattle we put 1 to 1.5 inch masking tape just above the waterline and make like a little gutter (maybe not so much a gutter but a flange) out of it and go all the way around the boat. As long as it is not raining sideways, you can paint. Usually.

There is rain that does not go sideways?

Sincerely,

Every Floridian

[Innocent Bystander]

Oooo, dig the Shark White! It turns green above the water but so what.
The boat looks GREAT!
Check with me before you buy anything. I've got STUFF,

Aw shit, does it really?? I wonder why that is? Here's hoping the rain holds off long enough for me to finish the rudder today.

Dude, your boat is positively inspiring. Normally, I don't pay much attention to cosmetics, or they are the last thing on the priority list after safety and performance, but I am absolutely going to pursue cosmetics with a vengeance on this boat. She and I are together for the long haul, so I'm going to do it right.

You might know this but...
In Seattle we put 1 to 1.5 inch masking tape just above the waterline and make like a little gutter (maybe not so much a gutter but a flange) out of it and go all the way around the boat. As long as it is not raining sideways, you can paint. Usually.

There is rain that does not go sideways?

Sincerely,

Every Floridian

Up in the GNW (great Northwest) they have this misty stuff they think is rain. In a week, they might lap up 1/4 inch. It's more condensation on your jacket than rain.

[Ajax]

Oooo, dig the Shark White! It turns green above the water but so what.
The boat looks GREAT!
Check with me before you buy anything. I've got STUFF,

Aw shit, does it really?? I wonder why that is? Here's hoping the rain holds off long enough for me to finish the rudder today.

Dude, your boat is positively inspiring. Normally, I don't pay much attention to cosmetics, or they are the last thing on the priority list after safety and performance, but I am absolutely going to pursue cosmetics with a vengeance on this boat. She and I are together for the long haul, so I'm going to do it right.

You might know this but...
In Seattle we put 1 to 1.5 inch masking tape just above the waterline and make like a little gutter (maybe not so much a gutter but a flange) out of it and go all the way around the boat. As long as it is not raining sideways, you can paint. Usually.

There is rain that does not go sideways?

Sincerely,

Every Floridian

Up in the GNW (great Northwest) they have this misty stuff they think is rain. In a week, they might lap up 1/4 inch. It's more condensation on your jacket than rain.

Agreed, except that it does this about 10 1/2 months out of the year.

[Innocent Bystander]

Up in the GNW (great Northwest) they have this misty stuff they think is rain. In a week, they might lap up 1/4 inch. It's more condensation on your jacket than rain.

Agreed, except that it does this about 10 1/2 months out of the year.

They lie. I lived there. They just want to keep from being californicated. It's a plot.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Ajax, sweet...the only pic I can see is Tom's silly chisel pic...I'll have to view the rest later.

Nice!

[Jose Carumba]

Up in the GNW (great Northwest) they have this misty stuff they think is rain. In a week, they might lap up 1/4 inch. It's more condensation on your jacket than rain.

Agreed, except that it does this about 10 1/2 months out of the year.

They lie. I lived there. They just want to keep from being californicated. It's a plot.

No not true at all IB. It's raining here constantly. Never stops I tell ya. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Cherie320]

Ajax - Congrats on selling the C25. The P30 looks great. Well Done!

[Innocent Bystander]

Up in the GNW (great Northwest) they have this misty stuff they think is rain. In a week, they might lap up 1/4 inch. It's more condensation on your jacket than rain.

Agreed, except that it does this about 10 1/2 months out of the year.

They lie. I lived there. They just want to keep from being californicated. It's a plot.

No not true at all IB. It's raining here constantly. Never stops I tell ya. Nothing to see here, move along.

[Gatekeeper]

Ajax

It;'s tough to sell your first love...but it's time to move on to your P30. The more I learn about your new infatuation, the more I think you did well. It's not a Mirage, but it''ll do you proud.



VERY C&C looking.

[Quotidian]

Since I know you are near mayo (BLT&M) and therefore Annapolis you might take a look at the used main sails Bacon's has for your new P 30. I checked their website and they show several sails for the P 30. Bring your (I,P,J,E etc) measurements and see if they have something better.
Or take your DeLorian money and buy a brand new main for racing that sucker but it will likely cost near $3K from a local loft or $2K or close from an offshore loft.
Is the genoa in decent shape or do you want to get both a new main and jib for racing?
Congrats on selling the Coronado.
Caleb D.

[Ajax]

Since I know you are near mayo (BLT&M) and therefore Annapolis you might take a look at the used main sails Bacon's has for your new P 30. I checked their website and they show several sails for the P 30. Bring your (I,P,J,E etc) measurements and see if they have something better.
Or take your DeLorian money and buy a brand new main for racing that sucker but it will likely cost near $3K from a local loft or $2K or close from an offshore loft.
Is the genoa in decent shape or do you want to get both a new main and jib for racing?
Congrats on selling the Coronado.
Caleb D.

Q-

I scored a brand-new, never flown, 150% genoa specifically for a P30, the day after I bought the boat. It's dacron, but that's fine. In the past, I have compromised with used "sorta fit" sails from Bacon's. No more "sorta fit" sails. The most compromise I'm willing to make, is a lightly used P30-specific mainsail, while I save up for a new, custom cut main.

The boat came with a full suit of sails that will be just fine for cruising and day sailing. I'll run new dacron sails for racing. Eventually, I may move up to something high-tech, but not until my skills are ready for them.

Where are you getting your numbers from? Bacon's quoter for a new sail was only $1400.00 for a partial batten, dacron, single reef point main. The genoa cost more. Do they use an offshore loft?

[mrgnstrn]

Ajax, they all use offshore nowadays.

try Scott sails. they built my main, and their genoa quote I just got is pretty nice. owned by a semi-well-known annapolis sailor from back in the day.

-M