611 replies to this topic

[walterbshaffer]

It is disingenuous to refuse to pay a living wage then bitch because people can get paid better for not working than they can get for busting their ass for pitiful wages.

Yes, and also as disingenuous as demanding to be paid a wage which causes the product to be over priced and then complaining about losing your job when nobody buys your product.

Have a twinkie.

[walterbshaffer]

_{(and yes I know the management at Hostess paid themselves huges bonuses for going out of business. F them too!)}

[Dawg Gonit]

I thought that all this DM BS was over? Isn;t that why the Ed has been going to F1 Races, Pro Sporting events and buying motorcycles??

Shit, I can't even afford to get back to FL to do a few disabled races.

Thanks to Don Strickland of South Western YC for letting me use his 2.4mR (after much work) without charging a charter fee. to race int he USS Championship hoseted by SWYC. I did meet Ed at SWYC (for a drink...2) and introduced him to many of the high Protile (Paralympic) Disabled Sailors.I was really hoping for a paragraph or 2 from him but, like most of the West Coast YC's and Rags, Disabled sailing ranks pretty low.

Please see This and This

I do try.........................

[Pete M]

It is not the role of government to intrude into a private enterprise

then why did the government eliminate the federal bankruptcy protection for these loans only - sounds like govt intrusion to me

[jocal505]

Well DR, my old friend, you see the trouble with you Ayn Rand acolytes is you love to hide behind that old "wealth redistribution" thing. How about the real "wealth redistribution" that happens every day, all of the time. You know, the kind of wealth redistribution that occurs when executives are paid obscene amounts of money for mismanaging their companies and raking in huge salaries and bonuses and refuse to pay their workers a living wage. The kind of wealth distribution that occurs when said executives ship all the jobs overseas because they can save money and then bitch because their workers can't find another job and have to collect unemployment. Why don't we hear complaints about that kind of wealth distribution? Y'all can't have it both ways. It is disingenuous to refuse to pay a living wage then bitch because people can get paid better for not working than they can get for busting their ass for pitiful wages. A hearty fuck you to you your ilk. Be very careful, when people have nothing left to lose they become very dangerous, a lesson that people have forgotten all through history. Come the revolution, Imma commin' back from Poland just to have the pleasure to see your kind burn. Just sayin'.

Poor baby, DoRag! You've sure got it rough, man.
The wealth has been "re-distributed" to corporate profit, to heartless, greedy, asshole stockholders such as yourself.




Food for thought. I just built 26 kitchens for Home Depot. Five of them paid $12-something an hour. Only three of them paid more than scale, and these three were less than $28/hr. Where's the damn beef?

Allow me to paint a picture of blue-collar survival by reviewing the cost of our required license against income.

• workman's comp ($864/quarter),
• unemployment ($289/quarter),
• B&O (@ 1.5% of gross)
• surety bond, $1200/yr or $400/qtr
• $1,000,000 casualty insurance, $820/yr or $405/qtr
• gasoline costs on a 35- mile distant projects (560 mi/wk) ~$140 per week.
• Vehicle costs & office overhead not covered in the above

So the government costs & gasoline are $310.15/wk on a check of about $1000/wk., (less 1.5% B&O tax).
Which gross income, btw, took 12-hr days at least five days a week.
When you subtract the mysterious $3000 they clipped me for as we parted ways, my average income spread over 1367 hrs: $16.80/hr.
It's called survival.

I can document all of this, including the long hours.
But I can't afford the kleenex that you snivel into. Get the picture?


Eat shit, my old friend DoRag.
YOU ROCK, my old friend SoakEd.

[DoRag]

_{(and yes I know the management at Hostess paid themselves huges bonuses for going out of business. F them too!)}

No, not really. The parent of Hostess paid bonuses for the key folks managing the wind down and potential sale of the brands and facilities. Without these, everyone would split and the assets would have no value to the parent.

Accordingly, these bonuses were necessary, and had a specific, rational basis.

In the bigger picture, the company would not agree to the union demands as Twinkies, Ho Hos and Ding Dongs simply do not have the margin to justify any added expense. Ordinarily a US company faced with this option would simply move overseas. That was not practical in this instance given the nature of product being a bakery good with a shelf life. Hence 18,000 became unemployed.

Unfortunately, with current government policies, this is only the beginning. BHO will get his way, the nature of our country will be substantiially altered, perhaps for a very long time. The USA will errode into a European socialistic, static economy, heavily in debt, and generally degraded into a mediocre mass of social engineering. Truly a shame!

[DoRag]

It is not the role of government to intrude into a private enterprise

then why did the government eliminate the federal bankruptcy protection for these loans only - sounds like govt intrusion to me

If the government had not enacted that provision, the banks would have stopped lending to studends as the default rate was too high to justify being in that market. The banks were actually indifferent to this market and didn't really want to participate. The government needed the banks to continue to loan to these high risks borrowers. This was more of a "social engineering" objective by the government,rather than an intrusion into the private market - as I recall, all this occurred under the Clinton/Monica administration.

Now we have BHO intruding into the student loan market with a greatly expanded program. Many loans are now eligable to be "forgiven" for any student entering "socially desireable" fields. And a bankruptcy now erases any student loan (government funded) debt. Of course, this means taht taxpayers are expected to fund this program and underwrite all the defaults and the ethnic studies majors that can't find a job. All of which the privare business sector refused to do, but the taxpayers are forced to do! And so, our government borrows from China to support yet another bogus progarm and we saddle our kids with a debt burden that will risk the future for not only them, but our country.

[Steam Flyer]

... ...

Poor baby, DoRag! You've sure got it rough, man.
The wealth has been "re-distributed" to corporate profit, to heartless, greedy, asshole stockholders such as yourself.

...

I dunno, for one thing stockholders are rapidly becoming (or already are) just as much a target of fiscal abuse as employees. Corporate boards say fuck 'em... one more asset to be plundered.

For another thing, people who are successful enough to hold significant investments in stock generally have more to do with their lives, and more positive outlooks, than DoRag with his many many hours of free time to post abusive retardo-drivel on the Internet.

Alternate theory- DoRag is actually a far-left Socialist who is intent on discrediting the entirety of conservatism and conservatives. This presumes that he is not as dumb as he seems, and can consistently & convincingly play a role.

FB- Doug

[Loco.]

The USA will errode into...... a static economy, heavily in debt, and generally degraded into a mediocre mass of social engineering. Truly a shame!

What planet have you been on? That horse has bolted.

[dudewood]

Will somebody post a bacon picture so that we can get this thread back on track?

[walterbshaffer]

_{(and yes I know the management at Hostess paid themselves huges bonuses for going out of business. F them too!)}

No, not really. The parent of Hostess paid bonuses for the key folks managing the wind down and potential sale of the brands and facilities. Without these, everyone would split and the assets would have no value to the parent.

Accordingly, these bonuses were necessary, and had a specific, rational basis.

In the bigger picture, the company would not agree to the union demands as Twinkies, Ho Hos and Ding Dongs simply do not have the margin to justify any added expense. Ordinarily a US company faced with this option would simply move overseas. That was not practical in this instance given the nature of product being a bakery good with a shelf life. Hence 18,000 became unemployed.

If I were the bankruptcy judge I would claw back those bonuses to pay all the creditors and issue an order to deny the workers welfare or unemployment compensation.

[DoRag]

_{(and yes I know the management at Hostess paid themselves huges bonuses for going out of business. F them too!)}

No, not really. The parent of Hostess paid bonuses for the key folks managing the wind down and potential sale of the brands and facilities. Without these, everyone would split and the assets would have no value to the parent.

Accordingly, these bonuses were necessary, and had a specific, rational basis.

In the bigger picture, the company would not agree to the union demands as Twinkies, Ho Hos and Ding Dongs simply do not have the margin to justify any added expense. Ordinarily a US company faced with this option would simply move overseas. That was not practical in this instance given the nature of product being a bakery good with a shelf life. Hence 18,000 became unemployed.

If I were the bankruptcy judge I would claw back those bonuses to pay all the creditors and issue an order to deny the workers welfare or unemployment compensation.

If I were da judge, I would vacate the union contracts so the employees could continue their jobs and the world will still have access to Ding Dongs, Ho Hos, and Twinkies.

[DA-WOODY]

_{(and yes I know the management at Hostess paid themselves huges bonuses for going out of business. F them too!)}

No, not really. The parent of Hostess paid bonuses for the key folks managing the wind down and potential sale of the brands and facilities. Without these, everyone would split and the assets would have no value to the parent.

Accordingly, these bonuses were necessary, and had a specific, rational basis.

In the bigger picture, the company would not agree to the union demands as Twinkies, Ho Hos and Ding Dongs simply do not have the margin to justify any added expense. Ordinarily a US company faced with this option would simply move overseas. That was not practical in this instance given the nature of product being a bakery good with a shelf life. Hence 18,000 became unemployed.

If I were the bankruptcy judge I would claw back those bonuses to pay all the creditors and issue an order to deny the workers welfare or unemployment compensation.

If I were da judge, I would vacate the union contracts so the employees could continue their jobs and the world will still have access to Ding Dongs, Ho Hos, and Twinkies.

all anyone's got to do is tune in here to find Ding Dongs, Ho Hos and Twinkies (on a good day & who knows what ya find in PA )

[soak_ed]

_{(and yes I know the management at Hostess paid themselves huges bonuses for going out of business. F them too!)}

No, not really. The parent of Hostess paid bonuses for the key folks managing the wind down and potential sale of the brands and facilities. Without these, everyone would split and the assets would have no value to the parent.

Accordingly, these bonuses were necessary, and had a specific, rational basis.

In the bigger picture, the company would not agree to the union demands as Twinkies, Ho Hos and Ding Dongs simply do not have the margin to justify any added expense. Ordinarily a US company faced with this option would simply move overseas. That was not practical in this instance given the nature of product being a bakery good with a shelf life. Hence 18,000 became unemployed.

If I were the bankruptcy judge I would claw back those bonuses to pay all the creditors and issue an order to deny the workers welfare or unemployment compensation.

If I were da judge, I would vacate the union contracts so the employees could continue their jobs and the world will still have access to Ding Dongs, Ho Hos, and Twinkies.

all anyone's got to do is tune in here to find Ding Dongs, Ho Hos and Twinkies (on a good day & who knows what ya find in PA )

Now that right there is living proof of the old adage that "Even a blind pig finds an acorn now and then."

Good one Woody!

[Walrus]

I don't know whether you are ignorant Do Rag or just a sick fuck.

1. Regarding student loans: "the banks wouldn't lend without the bankruptcy provision" - bullshit. Furthermore, don't you understand that the fucking price of tuition has gone up in direct proportion to the amount of money available from the banks? You are one of these sick fucks that thinks the law of supply and demand only works one way - against the employee.

I get sick and tired of employers who say "I can't get staff!" when what they really mean is "I can't get staff at the shitty wages I want to pay!"

2. As for union wages and public servants, I have not seen public servants and employees in Australia as lazy and bad as I've seen in the US for at least twenty years - we got rid of that sort of contract shit in the recession we had in 1989.

3. As for their being any socialism in America, you have none. I have never seen such a rapacious economy where the dice are loaded against the little guy and the poor the way they are in the States.

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

My favourite example is the Louisiana florists licence:

http://www.legalaffa...ce_mayjun04.msp

[PeterHuston]

This proposed piece of federal legislation ought to fire up the discussion here just a bit.

http://www.bloomberg...n-congress.html

[DoRag]

I don't know whether you are ignorant Do Rag or just a sick fuck.

1. Regarding student loans: "the banks wouldn't lend without the bankruptcy provision" - bullshit. Furthermore, don't you understand that the fucking price of tuition has gone up in direct proportion to the amount of money available from the banks? You are one of these sick fucks that thinks the law of supply and demand only works one way - against the employee.

I get sick and tired of employers who say "I can't get staff!" when what they really mean is "I can't get staff at the shitty wages I want to pay!"

2. As for union wages and public servants, I have not seen public servants and employees in Australia as lazy and bad as I've seen in the US for at least twenty years - we got rid of that sort of contract shit in the recession we had in 1989.

3. As for their being any socialism in America, you have none. I have never seen such a rapacious economy where the dice are loaded against the little guy and the poor the way they are in the States.

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

My favourite example is the Louisiana florists licence:

http://www.legalaffa...ce_mayjun04.msp

Always good to hear the input from the foreigners about what's wrong with our country.

Now, tell me, what is Australia going to do about a nuclear armed Iran, or, closer to home, the N. Korean nuclear program?

[Walrus]

I don't know whether you are ignorant Do Rag or just a sick fuck.

1. Regarding student loans: "the banks wouldn't lend without the bankruptcy provision" - bullshit. Furthermore, don't you understand that the fucking price of tuition has gone up in direct proportion to the amount of money available from the banks? You are one of these sick fucks that thinks the law of supply and demand only works one way - against the employee.

I get sick and tired of employers who say "I can't get staff!" when what they really mean is "I can't get staff at the shitty wages I want to pay!"

2. As for union wages and public servants, I have not seen public servants and employees in Australia as lazy and bad as I've seen in the US for at least twenty years - we got rid of that sort of contract shit in the recession we had in 1989.

3. As for their being any socialism in America, you have none. I have never seen such a rapacious economy where the dice are loaded against the little guy and the poor the way they are in the States.

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

My favourite example is the Louisiana florists licence:
Do Rag:

Always good to hear the input from the foreigners about what's wrong with our country.

Now, tell me, what is Australia going to do about a nuclear armed Iran, or, closer to home, the N. Korean nuclear program?

If you had ever fucking travelled, or had done a bit of research, you would know that America is fucked in many ways compared to almost all developed countries. However since most Americans appears as dumb as you (with a few exceptions) and don't bother to pry themselves away from FoxNews enough to find out, it appears that foreigners have to tell you.

Furthermore, you obviously don't understand what rent seeking behaviour is, nor how it infests, and is killing, your economy from top to bottom.

Instead as a really sick fuck, you rely on non existent bogeymen like "a nuclear armed Iran" and "North Korea". If those ever did become a threat to Australia, which they aren't, and we were the last country in the world left to respond, which is unlikeley, there is a very simple thing we would do.:

We would take some of the Thirty percent off the worlds uranium we hold. Enrich it to weapons grade, using our own patented Silex enrichment process (google it) - which we recently licenced to America, and paste enough of it on the nose of a home made cruise missile, which we know how to build (look up Jindivik, Malkara, Ikara) and shove it up the ass of anyone who annoyed us.

Now come on Do rag, get creative......

How about blaming poor undereducated people for making the wrong choices in life? That is the staple of fucktards like you.

Then start on healthcare and whine about how it has to be paid for instead of noticing the fucking obscene cost of American Healthcare compared to other countries? Maybe if you knew enough to do a Google search on health expenditure as a percentage of GDP compared to OECD countries you might realise how fucked you are..

Then you might look at statistics on :

- life expectancy

- Birth and infant mortality

- economic freedom

- quality of life

- prison population

........and a whole lot of other shit, and then you might realize how fucked America is thanks to ignorant fucks like you and yours.


To put it another way, since this is a sailing website, Americas situation is like that of an old Maxi yacht becalmed at the weather mark as the rest of the fleet glides past it:

The bottom of the boat is covered with weed. The topsides are weathered to nothing. The boat is low in the water. The winches are broken. The standing rigging is stranded. The running gear is held togehter with plastic tape. The rotten mainsail still has two reefs in it because the mast guys are arguing over whether its safe to take them out yet. The bow guys are trying to get a heavy number one to set because they werent capable of putting up the drifter at the last mark. The tactician is yelling for the spinnaker. The afterguard is trying to understaand the sailing instructions and cursing the race committee. And the skipper (Dan Mayer?) is cursing his entire crew, sawing at the useless wheel and screaming about the cost of it all....and Do Rag is sitting on the pushpit yelling at the competition for stealing "his" wind and threatening to protest anyone and everyone for no apparent reason.

And everyone who sails past this ship of fools just shakes their head.

Besides, we took the Americas cup from you, so there..

[familysailor]

Quite the analogy. What kind of boats are the other nations represented by? What do they rate? What does the weed bottomed old maxi rate?
Rating by IRC, ORC, IOR, PHRF?
Is the course windward leeward, Olympic triangles, or a distance race?
Does the NOR allow for nuclear weapons?

You do have some points there... If you learned to comb your hair like our hero Donald Trump nobody would notice. Just sayin'......

[Walrus]

The maxi is an old IOR boat with a depleted uranium keel. It has Fifty (count em) two and three speed winches on the deck, all of them corroded and missing pawl springs.

Everybody else is racing a sports boat and trying to avoid the Maxis dirty wind.

[familysailor]

That's okay then, they're in different fleets........

About that "depleted uranium"; you apparently didn't notice that the bottom growth is unusual in many ways and glows in the dark.

[walterbshaffer]

snip.........snip

man, you got fucking baited.

[Flippin Out]

The USA will errode into...... a static economy, heavily in debt, and generally degraded into a mediocre mass of social engineering. Truly a shame!

What planet have you been on? That horse has bolted.

Might be time for him to move to a foreign country !!

[Albatros]

The USA will errode into...... a static economy, heavily in debt, and generally degraded into a mediocre mass of social engineering. Truly a shame!

What planet have you been on? That horse has bolted.

Might be time for him to move to a foreign country !!

export of toxic waste ... yeah, right, but who on earth would have him ?

[PeterHuston]

I'm sure DoRag will be along later on to opine on the value of this young woman's education obtained with borrowed funds.

http://www.businessi...fession-2012-12

[DA-WOODY]

[Shaggy]

I don't know whether you are ignorant Do Rag or just a sick fuck.

1. Regarding student loans: "the banks wouldn't lend without the bankruptcy provision" - bullshit. Furthermore, don't you understand that the fucking price of tuition has gone up in direct proportion to the amount of money available from the banks? You are one of these sick fucks that thinks the law of supply and demand only works one way - against the employee.

I get sick and tired of employers who say "I can't get staff!" when what they really mean is "I can't get staff at the shitty wages I want to pay!"

2. As for union wages and public servants, I have not seen public servants and employees in Australia as lazy and bad as I've seen in the US for at least twenty years - we got rid of that sort of contract shit in the recession we had in 1989.

3. As for their being any socialism in America, you have none. I have never seen such a rapacious economy where the dice are loaded against the little guy and the poor the way they are in the States.

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

My favourite example is the Louisiana florists licence:
Do Rag:

Always good to hear the input from the foreigners about what's wrong with our country.

Now, tell me, what is Australia going to do about a nuclear armed Iran, or, closer to home, the N. Korean nuclear program?

If you had ever fucking travelled, or had done a bit of research, you would know that America is fucked in many ways compared to almost all developed countries. However since most Americans appears as dumb as you (with a few exceptions) and don't bother to pry themselves away from FoxNews enough to find out, it appears that foreigners have to tell you.

Furthermore, you obviously don't understand what rent seeking behaviour is, nor how it infests, and is killing, your economy from top to bottom.

Instead as a really sick fuck, you rely on non existent bogeymen like "a nuclear armed Iran" and "North Korea". If those ever did become a threat to Australia, which they aren't, and we were the last country in the world left to respond, which is unlikeley, there is a very simple thing we would do.:

We would take some of the Thirty percent off the worlds uranium we hold. Enrich it to weapons grade, using our own patented Silex enrichment process (google it) - which we recently licenced to America, and paste enough of it on the nose of a home made cruise missile, which we know how to build (look up Jindivik, Malkara, Ikara) and shove it up the ass of anyone who annoyed us.

Now come on Do rag, get creative......

How about blaming poor undereducated people for making the wrong choices in life? That is the staple of fucktards like you.

Then start on healthcare and whine about how it has to be paid for instead of noticing the fucking obscene cost of American Healthcare compared to other countries? Maybe if you knew enough to do a Google search on health expenditure as a percentage of GDP compared to OECD countries you might realise how fucked you are..

Then you might look at statistics on :

- life expectancy

- Birth and infant mortality

- economic freedom

- quality of life

- prison population

........and a whole lot of other shit, and then you might realize how fucked America is thanks to ignorant fucks like you and yours.


To put it another way, since this is a sailing website, Americas situation is like that of an old Maxi yacht becalmed at the weather mark as the rest of the fleet glides past it:

The bottom of the boat is covered with weed. The topsides are weathered to nothing. The boat is low in the water. The winches are broken. The standing rigging is stranded. The running gear is held togehter with plastic tape. The rotten mainsail still has two reefs in it because the mast guys are arguing over whether its safe to take them out yet. The bow guys are trying to get a heavy number one to set because they werent capable of putting up the drifter at the last mark. The tactician is yelling for the spinnaker. The afterguard is trying to understaand the sailing instructions and cursing the race committee. And the skipper (Dan Mayer?) is cursing his entire crew, sawing at the useless wheel and screaming about the cost of it all....and Do Rag is sitting on the pushpit yelling at the competition for stealing "his" wind and threatening to protest anyone and everyone for no apparent reason.

And everyone who sails past this ship of fools just shakes their head.

Besides, we took the Americas cup from you, so there..

I do not agree with any of Dan M's business practices, nor do I have any beef withg those of you down under but this analogy just beggs for John candy sailing by with his skivies in the air passing the Incisor to win the race on the last leg in Summer Rental

Get er DONE!!

Just sayin

[Navigare]

I don't know whether you are ignorant Do Rag or just a sick fuck.

1. Regarding student loans: "the banks wouldn't lend without the bankruptcy provision" - bullshit. Furthermore, don't you understand that the fucking price of tuition has gone up in direct proportion to the amount of money available from the banks? You are one of these sick fucks that thinks the law of supply and demand only works one way - against the employee.

I get sick and tired of employers who say "I can't get staff!" when what they really mean is "I can't get staff at the shitty wages I want to pay!"

2. As for union wages and public servants, I have not seen public servants and employees in Australia as lazy and bad as I've seen in the US for at least twenty years - we got rid of that sort of contract shit in the recession we had in 1989.

3. As for their being any socialism in America, you have none. I have never seen such a rapacious economy where the dice are loaded against the little guy and the poor the way they are in the States.

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

My favourite example is the Louisiana florists licence:
Do Rag:

Always good to hear the input from the foreigners about what's wrong with our country.

Now, tell me, what is Australia going to do about a nuclear armed Iran, or, closer to home, the N. Korean nuclear program?

If you had ever fucking travelled, or had done a bit of research, you would know that America is fucked in many ways compared to almost all developed countries. However since most Americans appears as dumb as you (with a few exceptions) and don't bother to pry themselves away from FoxNews enough to find out, it appears that foreigners have to tell you.

Furthermore, you obviously don't understand what rent seeking behaviour is, nor how it infests, and is killing, your economy from top to bottom.

Instead as a really sick fuck, you rely on non existent bogeymen like "a nuclear armed Iran" and "North Korea". If those ever did become a threat to Australia, which they aren't, and we were the last country in the world left to respond, which is unlikeley, there is a very simple thing we would do.:

We would take some of the Thirty percent off the worlds uranium we hold. Enrich it to weapons grade, using our own patented Silex enrichment process (google it) - which we recently licenced to America, and paste enough of it on the nose of a home made cruise missile, which we know how to build (look up Jindivik, Malkara, Ikara) and shove it up the ass of anyone who annoyed us.

Now come on Do rag, get creative......

How about blaming poor undereducated people for making the wrong choices in life? That is the staple of fucktards like you.

Then start on healthcare and whine about how it has to be paid for instead of noticing the fucking obscene cost of American Healthcare compared to other countries? Maybe if you knew enough to do a Google search on health expenditure as a percentage of GDP compared to OECD countries you might realise how fucked you are..

Then you might look at statistics on :

- life expectancy

- Birth and infant mortality

- economic freedom

- quality of life

- prison population

........and a whole lot of other shit, and then you might realize how fucked America is thanks to ignorant fucks like you and yours.


To put it another way, since this is a sailing website, Americas situation is like that of an old Maxi yacht becalmed at the weather mark as the rest of the fleet glides past it:

The bottom of the boat is covered with weed. The topsides are weathered to nothing. The boat is low in the water. The winches are broken. The standing rigging is stranded. The running gear is held togehter with plastic tape. The rotten mainsail still has two reefs in it because the mast guys are arguing over whether its safe to take them out yet. The bow guys are trying to get a heavy number one to set because they werent capable of putting up the drifter at the last mark. The tactician is yelling for the spinnaker. The afterguard is trying to understaand the sailing instructions and cursing the race committee. And the skipper (Dan Mayer?) is cursing his entire crew, sawing at the useless wheel and screaming about the cost of it all....and Do Rag is sitting on the pushpit yelling at the competition for stealing "his" wind and threatening to protest anyone and everyone for no apparent reason.

And everyone who sails past this ship of fools just shakes their head.

Besides, we took the Americas cup from you, so there..

a jolly good rant, well done!

[MidPack]

What was the topic of this thread, I can't remember...

[walterbshaffer]

What was the topic of this thread, I can't remember...

Men behaving badly.

All kinds.

[familysailor]

Nice find wooden one.

[Trickypig]

Dan Meyers likes his pie (chart).

Attached Files

•  Screen Shot 2012-12-05 at 12.59.05 PM.png   132.47K   22 downloads

[Aloha 27]

Nice find wooden one.

+1000

[Walrus]

I think Do rag has run away.

Its sad that "corporate strategy" in the US has descended into a single plan: lobby Government for a bailout or change the regulations of things to benefit me, me, me.

In other words, classic rent seeking.

A simple definition of rent seeking is spending resources in order to gain by increasing one's share of existing wealth, instead of trying to create wealth. The net effect of rent-seeking is to reduce total social wealth, because resources are spent and no new wealth is created. It is important to distinguish rent-seeking from profit-seeking. Profit-seeking is the creation of wealth, while rent-seeking is the use of social institutions such as the power of government to redistribute wealth among different groups without creating new wealth.^[1]
Rent-seeking implies extraction of uncompensated value from others without making any contribution to productivity. The origin of the term refers to gaining control of land or other natural resources. An example of rent-seeking in a modern economy is political lobbying for government benefits or subsidies, or to impose regulations on competitors, in order to increase market share.
Studies of rent-seeking focus on efforts to capture special monopoly privileges such as manipulating government regulation of free enterprise competition.^[2] The term monopoly privilege rent-seeking is an often-used label for this particular type of rent-seeking. Often-cited examples include a lobby that seeks tariff protection, quotas, subsidies^[3], or extension of copyright law.^[4]

http://en.wikipedia....ki/Rent-seeking

Multiply the cost to the community of my favourite rent seeking - the Lousiana florists licence, by a billion fold and you will have some idea of the problem - but it can be fixed - if the politicians got out of the way of the economists.

[Albatros]

What was the topic of this thread, I can't remember...

and comrad Doefag having a bait at anything that moves.

[Dawg Gonit]

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

A simple definition of rent seeking is spending resources in order to gain by increasing one's share of existing wealth, instead of trying to create wealth.

[Bob Perry]

My dear old Dad came back from New Guinea with no hair. No eyebrows .Half his teeth were gone. He was 5' 11". He weighed 97 lbs. when he got out. 97 fucking pounds! I know. I still have his passport. And,,, he had malaria. MALARIA.
He went to New Guinea to help protect Australia.
My Dad married an Australian gal. He was busted from sargeant down to whatever.
But he brought his Australian bride home to a weird midwest. '"Speak Australian for us." My mid west grand parents were less thn impressed.
He said, "Fuck this." and he returned to Sydney with me, a baby.
My Dad loved Australia.
But he was a Yank. In his day in Sydney he was a hero. I bet he never shouted at the pub.
If my Dad was alive today to listen to you guys trash America he would haul his sorry old ass down there to give you what's coming.
And he was an old tough guy. I think he could give you a hiding. Fair dinkum.
He'd take his best army buddy too. But the Japs poured gasoline on him and set him on fire.
It makes me very sad to lsiten to Australians try to trash the US.

Go on. Be proud of your country. You should be. My dear old Dad would be right there with you. But he paid a heavy price.
I have to say, he never once bitched or complained. He made it home. He thought he did the right thing.
Good on ya Dad. You are my hero. Sorry I never told yhat.

This rant has been building up in me for two days.

[One eye Jack]

My dear old Dad came back from New Guinea with no hair. No eyebrows .Half his teeth were gone. He was 5' 11". He weighed 97 lbs. when he got out. 97 fucking pounds! I know. I still have his passport. And,,, he had malaria. MALARIA.
He went to New Guinea to help protect Australia.
My Dad married an Australian gal. He was busted from sargeant down to whatever.
But he brought his Australian bride home to a weird midwest. '"Speak Australian for us." My mid west grand parents were less thn impressed.
He said, "Fuck this." and he returned to Sydney with me, a baby.
My Dad loved Australia.
But he was a Yank. In his day in Sydney he was a hero. I bet he never shouted at the pub.
If my Dad was alive today to listen to you guys trash America he would haul his sorry old ass down there to give you what's coming.
And he was an old tough guy. I think he could give you a hiding. Fair dinkum.
He'd take his best army buddy too. But the Japs poured gasoline on him and set him on fire.
It makes me very sad to lsiten to Australians try to trash the US.

Go on. Be proud of your country. You should be. My dear old Dad would be right there with you. But he paid a heavy price.
I have to say, he never once bitched or complained. He made it home. He thought he did the right thing.
Good on ya Dad. You are my hero. Sorry I never told yhat.

This rant has been building up in me for two days.

but that's a good rant.. Funny how dear ol dad that was in the big war was right to the point.. And now we can't tell them how smart they were.

[Bob Perry]

One eyed:
Not sure he was "right",. I do know he did what he was told.
We never ever talked about New guinea. He never ever talked about it. He just got on.
What did he get back from Australia for his efforts?
A flat in Ashfield where I slept on a porch and froze my ass off in the winter time. Maybe walls all around would have helped.
But I thought that was life and I knew no better. I survived just fine. Bondi, Manly, Carubra in the summertime. Good place to be a kid.

When we finally came to America, I was 12 years old, I thought we had won the lottery.
We had a real house.
I got my own bedroom
We had central heat.
I got a dog.
I got my first bike. It cost $37.50 and it wasn't a Swchinn Corvette.

I do not begrudge the Australians from feeling victorious today. Good on 'em. I kid myself that I am still one of them. I am very fearful of going back. It was hard to co,me here. I'm not sure I can deal with going back. I don;t want to grapple with the "where is home?" issue. Paramatta? Probably.

But I know it would break my dear old Dad's heart to hear Australians trash the US. I kind of think he gave his best, his youth for Australia.
I feel I need to stick up for Dad.

[Trickypig]

My dear old Dad came back from New Guinea with no hair. No eyebrows .Half his teeth were gone. He was 5' 11". He weighed 97 lbs. when he got out. 97 fucking pounds! I know. I still have his passport. And,,, he had malaria. MALARIA.
He went to New Guinea to help protect Australia.
My Dad married an Australian gal. He was busted from sargeant down to whatever.
But he brought his Australian bride home to a weird midwest. '"Speak Australian for us." My mid west grand parents were less thn impressed.
He said, "Fuck this." and he returned to Sydney with me, a baby.
My Dad loved Australia.
But he was a Yank. In his day in Sydney he was a hero. I bet he never shouted at the pub.
If my Dad was alive today to listen to you guys trash America he would haul his sorry old ass down there to give you what's coming.
And he was an old tough guy. I think he could give you a hiding. Fair dinkum.
He'd take his best army buddy too. But the Japs poured gasoline on him and set him on fire.
It makes me very sad to lsiten to Australians try to trash the US.

Go on. Be proud of your country. You should be. My dear old Dad would be right there with you. But he paid a heavy price.
I have to say, he never once bitched or complained. He made it home. He thought he did the right thing.
Good on ya Dad. You are my hero. Sorry I never told yhat.

This rant has been building up in me for two days.

Well said Bob.

Let's hope some vestiges of his values stay true in the hearts of the corporate captains and poiliticians in all countries in this world.

[Bob Perry]

Tricky: Not sure dear old Dad even knew he had "values". He worked hard to cloth and feed us and we ate damn well.
"Politicians and corportate captains"? don't think Dad had the luxury of worrying about those guys. Don't think he would have liked any of them.

See you at Christmas. I am planning on doing a Christmas plum pudding, Bring some threepances will you.
Turkey on Christmas Eve and a nice big ham on Christmas day. I'll do the spuds.
Why don't you plan on doing the salad for Christmas day.
That could be fun.
And a damn good time for all.

[Leka]

+1 Bob.
My Grandfather served in Port Moresby, Papua New Guinea as well.
He never spoke about it when I knew him as a young boy.

He did speak highly of some of his mates though. Some were Americans, some Aussies. It seemed they were all in it together and friendships grew.

I concur with BP (and others) about the US/Aussie bashing and visa versa.
Pretty pathetic IMO.

No denying we needed US to help out, still might in the future as well.
We do our bit down here, and try to balance the politics to make it all work.

I didn't get to say thanks to Pop for what he had done, didn't understand it at the time.
Cancer took him when I was about 12.
I know he did like me and we would have got on very well.
He did take me fishing a few times in his tinnie.
Would have loved to had a beer with him at the Bowling Club on ANZAC Day. The only day of the year he went out for a drink.

Very obvious now that he loved his family and tried to do everything he could for them.
Shame too many things were working against him for him to reap the benefits of his efforts.

Thanks Pop, sorry I didn't appreciate you when you were here.

[Bob Perry]

Leka;
I hear you. I wish we had been smart enough to know what our Dads had done for us.
But, you know what?

I'm not sure they wanted us to know.

They didn't know what PTSD was. They got on with their lives.

I took my Dad and a client to Jazz Alley one night. Dad was a great musician.
My client, about ten years older than I am, started asking my Dad about the war. Lots of questions.
My Dad went on and on about it. I just sat there fucking amazed. I had never heard ths stuff.

I told my client later, "I have neve heard my Dad talk about the war like that before."
My client asked, "Have you ever asked him?"
I said no, we were taught growing up not to talk/ask about the war.

But I had found my Dad's photos from the war. I wasn't supposed to look at them but I did,
Dead Japs in a ditch.
New Guinea women with no shirts.
More dead Japs in a ditch.
My Dad was not keen on Japanese people. I let him have that one.

I did not mean to start a rant here. I only meant to say, my Dad loved Australia. My Dad, from Toledo Ohio, fought for Australia. His heart would have been broken to hear Australians trash the US.
But he is gone so I guess I had better HTFU.

[Leka]

As an aside, I find it very ironic that I now live in Japan.
Pop served in PNG when the Japs were invading, and my Uncle served on the Occupational Forces in Japan for many years.

Both have passed away now, and I did ask my Aunty if she thought Pop and Uncle Bruce would be annoyed at me for working for the japanese.

She said not to worry 'your Pop would be proud of you'.

Kinda made me feel better.

I have a great interest WWII history now.
Visited Ohama Beach in Normandy, Dachau Concentraion Camp and Hiroshima.

Not a good coffee time conversation topic in the office though!!
Have met a few locals that are happy to discuss the war, but they are rare.
Still too soon for many here.

There is a temple in Tokyo that has many WWII monuments and information that is high on our list of places to go. Apparently it's very interesting and explains the logic behind the decision to go to war. Look forward to getting there soon.

'Gaigin' is still a derogatory word and I have to hold an 'Alien card' to work here.
Immigration inbound at Narita used to say 'Aliens' for passport check, but has recently been changed.

The look on some of the older people's faces says a lot. They think any gaijin is American, and still have issues.
Of course the behaviour of a minority amongst the current lot does not help at times.
Currently all services are on a 11pm curfew due to a recent rape of a local girl.

Bob, likewise, didn't mean to rant on, but seemed like a good thread drift.

[sunseeker]

All these Aussies and kiwis that come to this site and trash America can go fuck dead sheep.

[Bob Perry]

Sun
That is exactly what I was trying NOT to say.

My dear old Dad would have been offended by Australian rants against Yanks but he would not have been mad about it. (I'm not sure here.)
But it would have made him feel bad. He did his very best to help Australia. Right. Guys from Toledo Ohio should go help the Australians.But he was a true tough guy, He thought he could do what he was told. Talk about it later.

[Delta Dog]

One eyed:
Not sure he was "right",. I do know he did what he was told.
We never ever talked about New guinea. He never ever talked about it. He just got on.
What did he get back from Australia for his efforts?
A flat in Ashfield where I slept on a porch and froze my ass off in the winter time. Maybe walls all around would have helped.
But I thought that was life and I knew no better. I survived just fine. Bondi, Manly, Carubra in the summertime. Good place to be a kid.

When we finally came to America, I was 12 years old, I thought we had won the lottery.
We had a real house.
I got my own bedroom
We had central heat.
I got a dog.
I got my first bike. It cost $37.50 and it wasn't a Swchinn Corvette.

I do not begrudge the Australians from feeling victorious today. Good on 'em. I kid myself that I am still one of them. I am very fearful of going back. It was hard to co,me here. I'm not sure I can deal with going back. I don;t want to grapple with the "where is home?" issue. Paramatta? Probably.

But I know it would break my dear old Dad's heart to hear Australians trash the US. I kind of think he gave his best, his youth for Australia.
I feel I need to stick up for Dad.

+1

[Throatwarbler-Mangrove]

Bob,
Thanks for sharing about your dad. Can't match your story, but understand that my grandfather's cousin, with whom he was close, died in combat in PNG. He was an art student, a gentle soul who nonetheless enlisted after Pearl Harbor.

I also am saddened by the America bashing from our friends down under. As well as the jingoist spew from Dorag that precipitated it. Slagging your closest friends and allies is really bad form.

If you hadn't written what you did, I would never have contributed to this nasty thread.

[sunseeker]

Sun
That is exactly what I was trying NOT to say.

My dear old Dad would have been offended by Australian rants against Yanks but he would not have been mad about it. (I'm not sure here.)
But it would have made him feel bad. He did his very best to help Australia. Right. Guys from Toledo Ohio should go help the Australians.But he was a true tough guy, He thought he could do what he was told. Talk about it later.

I didn't want to say it either but it is time to call a spade a spade.

I've got my own experience with my father being in a war and what that did to him. You talk about PTSD, guess what it lasts a lifetime. Learned about that from Hospice the last few days of his life.

So a couple of Aussie and kiwi shitheads come in here and trash America and I get pissed. Sad too because almost all the Aussies and kiwis that I know are great people.

I probably shouldn't have said the thing about the sheep, because does a disservice to the late sheep, and the Aussies and kiwis who trash America here probably would enjoy it, a step up from what they usually fuck.

DoRag is right they should get their own sailing site.

[ProaSailor]

I don't know whether you are ignorant Do Rag or just a sick fuck.

1. Regarding student loans: "the banks wouldn't lend without the bankruptcy provision" - bullshit. Furthermore, don't you understand that the fucking price of tuition has gone up in direct proportion to the amount of money available from the banks? You are one of these sick fucks that thinks the law of supply and demand only works one way - against the employee.

I get sick and tired of employers who say "I can't get staff!" when what they really mean is "I can't get staff at the shitty wages I want to pay!"

2. As for union wages and public servants, I have not seen public servants and employees in Australia as lazy and bad as I've seen in the US for at least twenty years - we got rid of that sort of contract shit in the recession we had in 1989.

3. As for their being any socialism in America, you have none. I have never seen such a rapacious economy where the dice are loaded against the little guy and the poor the way they are in the States.

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

My favourite example is the Louisiana florists licence:
Do Rag:

Always good to hear the input from the foreigners about what's wrong with our country.

Now, tell me, what is Australia going to do about a nuclear armed Iran, or, closer to home, the N. Korean nuclear program?

If you had ever fucking travelled, or had done a bit of research, you would know that America is fucked in many ways compared to almost all developed countries. However since most Americans appears as dumb as you (with a few exceptions) and don't bother to pry themselves away from FoxNews enough to find out, it appears that foreigners have to tell you.

Furthermore, you obviously don't understand what rent seeking behaviour is, nor how it infests, and is killing, your economy from top to bottom.

Instead as a really sick fuck, you rely on non existent bogeymen like "a nuclear armed Iran" and "North Korea". If those ever did become a threat to Australia, which they aren't, and we were the last country in the world left to respond, which is unlikeley, there is a very simple thing we would do.:

We would take some of the Thirty percent off the worlds uranium we hold. Enrich it to weapons grade, using our own patented Silex enrichment process (google it) - which we recently licenced to America, and paste enough of it on the nose of a home made cruise missile, which we know how to build (look up Jindivik, Malkara, Ikara) and shove it up the ass of anyone who annoyed us.

Now come on Do rag, get creative......

How about blaming poor undereducated people for making the wrong choices in life? That is the staple of fucktards like you.

Then start on healthcare and whine about how it has to be paid for instead of noticing the fucking obscene cost of American Healthcare compared to other countries? Maybe if you knew enough to do a Google search on health expenditure as a percentage of GDP compared to OECD countries you might realise how fucked you are..

Then you might look at statistics on :

- life expectancy

- Birth and infant mortality

- economic freedom

- quality of life

- prison population

........and a whole lot of other shit, and then you might realize how fucked America is thanks to ignorant fucks like you and yours.


To put it another way, since this is a sailing website, Americas situation is like that of an old Maxi yacht becalmed at the weather mark as the rest of the fleet glides past it:

The bottom of the boat is covered with weed. The topsides are weathered to nothing. The boat is low in the water. The winches are broken. The standing rigging is stranded. The running gear is held togehter with plastic tape. The rotten mainsail still has two reefs in it because the mast guys are arguing over whether its safe to take them out yet. The bow guys are trying to get a heavy number one to set because they werent capable of putting up the drifter at the last mark. The tactician is yelling for the spinnaker. The afterguard is trying to understaand the sailing instructions and cursing the race committee. And the skipper (Dan Mayer?) is cursing his entire crew, sawing at the useless wheel and screaming about the cost of it all....and Do Rag is sitting on the pushpit yelling at the competition for stealing "his" wind and threatening to protest anyone and everyone for no apparent reason.

And everyone who sails past this ship of fools just shakes their head.

Besides, we took the Americas cup from you, so there..

Well said sir! With all due respect to Bob Perry and his father, and as a patriotic American myself, I thank you Walrus for an excellent rant. Some people just can't handle the truth about what has gone wrong in the USA in the last sixty years (and especially during the illegitimate and reprehensible Cheney/Bush regime!). I sincerely appreciate the truth, no matter who says it.

[ProaSailor]

I probably shouldn't have said the thing about the sheep, because does a disservice to the late sheep, and the Aussies and kiwis who trash America here probably would enjoy it, a step up from what they usually fuck.

You, dude, are a first class shithead! Can't be helped when your head is so far up your ass. Squeezes the brain too, and you haven't got much to spare.

P.S. I REALLY hate bullies, whether it's an individual, a political party or a corrupt economic system that serves a privileged few while most people suffer. No mercy from me just because you're too stupid to understand what's going on, especially when you talk like this.

[jarcher]

P.S. I REALLY hate bullies, whether it's an individual, a political party or a corrupt economic system that serves a privileged few while most people suffer.

Absolutely correct. Take the public service unions for example. They are both bullys and the privilidged few!

[Loco.]

What the fuck has this thread turned into?

[DA-WOODY]

What the fuck has this thread turned into?

554 posts and "NO TITS"

and that's your best question ??????????????????

WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEk

[Walrus]

Bob Perry, you forget one thing: It's only your friends that will tell you what's wrong with you. I'm not bashing America, I'm saying for fucks sake, start fixing what is broken.

Not only that, it is American economists in general who developed the theory of how to run an economy in the first place, yet you arent even listening to your own experts, instead listening to bought and paid for idiots.

To put it in sailing terms, if I go onto a boat as a sort of "coach" for want of a better word, and after looking at the boat and the crew over a lap or Two, I suggest that the crew (a) put some backstay on (B)/> move the cars © Trim the main more effectively and by the way, adjust the rig to get a hairsbreadth more weather helm upwind (d) turn off the instruments upwind because you can NOT trim a boat by GPS speed (I kid you not) and start sailing by feel (e) stop trying to make tactical moves to win Five yards at the risk of losing a hundred yards...........and the skipper turns round and says "stop criticising me"???????????? WTF?????????

I'm decended from the first child born from the Mayflower - Peregrine White. I first went to the states as a Five year old in the mid Fifty's - it was a place of wonder and awe. I have sixty plus relatives in the USA.

I went back several times in the Seventies and Eighties and Nineties - still awesome. I used to arrive with an empty suitcases and come back to Australia loaded with everything from Fieldcrest towels to records at a fraction of Australian prices. I still remember taking a Thunderbird convertible from Boston down to Hartford and then back via Mystic in a beautiful September.

Fast forward to 2002. I arrive in New Orleans and am amazed at the people with backsides Two axe handles wide. I go to the RIverside Mall and notice that our malls are identical right down to the little carts selling mobile phone covers, except our prices are cheaper. I travel to Madison, Wisconsin, Minneapolis, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. There is nothing that I cannot buy cheaper in Australia, except perhaps firearms. The infrastructure is looking run down. I run across a fewe public servants with attitudes that would have them fired in a New York minute in Australia. I carried a tri band mobile phone that still wouldnt work consistent;y across the country because of your stupid telecommunications infrastructure.

I ended up thinking "man, there is something stupid going on here, but I don't know what".

To use the sailing metaphore again, I am not laughing at you. I am trying to tell you you are standing into danger. If you do not believe that there are things other people and countries do better, then you are committing exactly the same error as a nation that the American car companies made when first faced with japanese automotive competition - look at the wreck Detroit is today. Do you want the whole country to look like Detroit?????

Lest any of you think this is Australian triumphalism, it isnt. We are our own worst critics and we have plenty of issues to sort, but none of them are the bullshit issues you face (except perhaps illegal immigration).

For fucks sake stop confusing constructive criticism with "America Bashing".

And, to get back on topic, the Dan Meyers business model epitomises what is wrong today : "heads I win, tails you lose"



....and did someone mention tits?

[Steam Flyer]

5. Your problem is called in economics: "rent seeking behaviour" and it starts in congress, continues through wall street, through corporations and right on down to town councils.

A simple definition of rent seeking is spending resources in order to gain by increasing one's share of existing wealth, instead of trying to create wealth.

Is that like when the principals and upper management of a big company load the company with debt, jam all the cash into their own pockets, and fire workers who refuse to agree to wage & benefit cuts... closing down the whole operation insisting it isn't profitable?

Bob Perry, you forget one thing: It's only your friends that will tell you what's wrong with you. I'm not bashing America, I'm saying for fucks sake, start fixing what is broken...
... ... ...

....and did someone mention tits?

Hear hear.
Agreed on both... I mean, all three


FB- Doug

[ProaSailor]

P.S. I REALLY hate bullies, whether it's an individual, a political party or a corrupt economic system that serves a privileged few while most people suffer.

Absolutely correct. Take the public service unions for example. They are both bullys and the privilidged few!

Bullshit.

[DA-WOODY]

[DA-WOODY]

[Shaggy]

Bernie is Da bomb...... Kill the filibuster (or make them actually do it) and good things will come....

[Trickypig]

Tricky: Not sure dear old Dad even knew he had "values". He worked hard to cloth and feed us and we ate damn well.
"Politicians and corportate captains"? don't think Dad had the luxury of worrying about those guys. Don't think he would have liked any of them.

See you at Christmas. I am planning on doing a Christmas plum pudding, Bring some threepances will you.
Turkey on Christmas Eve and a nice big ham on Christmas day. I'll do the spuds.
Why don't you plan on doing the salad for Christmas day.
That could be fun.
And a damn good time for all.

I'm looking forward to it. Salad it is.

Vegemite on toast to start with on Christmas Day too..

See you then.

[DA-WOODY]

Bob Perry, you forget one thing: It's only your friends that will tell you what's wrong with you. I'm not bashing America, I'm saying for fucks sake, start fixing what is broken.

Not only that, it is American economists in general who developed the theory of how to run an economy in the first place, yet you arent even listening to your own experts, instead listening to bought and paid for idiots.

To put it in sailing terms, if I go onto a boat as a sort of "coach" for want of a better word, and after looking at the boat and the crew over a lap or Two, I suggest that the crew (a) put some backstay on (B)/> move the cars © Trim the main more effectively and by the way, adjust the rig to get a hairsbreadth more weather helm upwind (d) turn off the instruments upwind because you can NOT trim a boat by GPS speed (I kid you not) and start sailing by feel (e) stop trying to make tactical moves to win Five yards at the risk of losing a hundred yards...........and the skipper turns round and says "stop criticising me"???????????? WTF?????????

I'm decended from the first child born from the Mayflower - Peregrine White. I first went to the states as a Five year old in the mid Fifty's - it was a place of wonder and awe. I have sixty plus relatives in the USA.

I went back several times in the Seventies and Eighties and Nineties - still awesome. I used to arrive with an empty suitcases and come back to Australia loaded with everything from Fieldcrest towels to records at a fraction of Australian prices. I still remember taking a Thunderbird convertible from Boston down to Hartford and then back via Mystic in a beautiful September.

Fast forward to 2002. I arrive in New Orleans and am amazed at the people with backsides Two axe handles wide. I go to the RIverside Mall and notice that our malls are identical right down to the little carts selling mobile phone covers, except our prices are cheaper. I travel to Madison, Wisconsin, Minneapolis, Chicago, Pittsburgh and Los Angeles. There is nothing that I cannot buy cheaper in Australia, except perhaps firearms. The infrastructure is looking run down. I run across a fewe public servants with attitudes that would have them fired in a New York minute in Australia. I carried a tri band mobile phone that still wouldnt work consistent;y across the country because of your stupid telecommunications infrastructure.

I ended up thinking "man, there is something stupid going on here, but I don't know what".

To use the sailing metaphore again, I am not laughing at you. I am trying to tell you you are standing into danger. If you do not believe that there are things other people and countries do better, then you are committing exactly the same error as a nation that the American car companies made when first faced with japanese automotive competition - look at the wreck Detroit is today. Do you want the whole country to look like Detroit?????

Lest any of you think this is Australian triumphalism, it isnt. We are our own worst critics and we have plenty of issues to sort, but none of them are the bullshit issues you face (except perhaps illegal immigration).

For fucks sake stop confusing constructive criticism with "America Bashing".

And, to get back on topic, the Dan Meyers business model epitomises what is wrong today : "heads I win, tails you lose"



....and did someone mention tits?

Ummmm




Friday, December 7, 2012

US Energy Chief Frustrated With Our Taxes, Costs

http://www.bbwgroup.com.au/blog/?x=entry%3Aentry121207-155054
IT takes a lot to rile Chevron Australia boss Roy Krzywosinski, an amiable American who has steered clear of controversy since he landed in Perth in 2008 to build two massive liquefied natural gas projects now worth a combined $80 billion.

But when he fronted the In The Zone conference at the University of Western Australia two weeks ago, it was apparent Krzywosinski's patience with Australia as a place to do business was running out.

The local head of the California-based energy giant slammed the federal workplace regime and the carbon tax for pushing up costs and lamented Australia's regulatory inefficiencies and its layers of federal-state duplication.

"These costs add to the growing list of disincentives to invest here," he said, reading from notes that had been vetted by his bosses in the US. "This should worry anyone who is interested in Australia securing long-term investment, jobs and economic growth."

Krzywosinski also referred to studies that showed projects in Australia were 40 per cent more expensive than in the US and local workers were 60 per cent less productive than their American counterparts.

It might have sounded like yet another rant from a business leader about Australia's poor investment climate, except in this case Krzywosinski had tangible evidence of the damage being caused by poor productivity.

What he knew at the time, but which had yet to be revealed, was that the cost of building the Gorgon liquefied natural gas plant -- Australia's biggest resources project -- had ballooned from $43bn to $52bn.

To an extent, Krzywosinski is right.

Chevron has had difficult dealings with the militant Maritime Union of Australia, whose actions have severely slowed progress in the construction of Gorgon. The four main construction unions at Gorgon have also been emboldened by the federal government's Fair Work Act in pushing for better wages and conditions.

Productivity on Gorgon has been further weakened by Australia's skills shortages and the resultant poor quality of many local contractors who are inexperienced in working on big LNG projects.

And Chevron is under relentless pressure from unions and governments to spend as much of its budget as possible -- about $18bn on present estimates -- within Australia. The rising value of the local currency has made this demand for local content far more expensive for Chevron in US-dollar terms.

Yet perhaps Krzywosinski's UWA speech was also seeking to deflect any blame that might come Chevron's way for the cost-inflating decision years ago to build Gorgon on Barrow Island, an A-class nature reserve off the Pilbara coast.

As the home for the next few decades of what will be one of the world's biggest LNG plants, Barrow Island is a logistical nightmare.

Even WA Premier Colin Barnett, when he was opposition leader in 2003, thought building on Barrow Island was a bad idea, telling parliament that the Gorgon plant should be built on the mainland for economic and environmental reasons.

Chevron's own decision to build on Barrow Island has been responsible for creating mountains of productivity-sapping red tape.

Tens of thousands of pieces of material and equipment that arrive on the island are subject to quarantine, including inspection, cleaning and wrapping, before they can be unloaded.

In total, Chevron's quarantine management system for Gorgon consists of more than 300 procedures, specifications, checklists and guidelines aimed at protecting the island's unique biodiversity.

In the first 18 months of construction alone, Chevron moved 200,000 tonnes of freight to the island, completed 70,000 passenger movements and trained more than 10,000 people in quarantine awareness. It's easily the world's biggest non-government quarantine system.

But a leading consultant to the LNG industry, who asked not to be named, told The Australian "building Gorgon on Barrow Island was a huge, fundamental mistake, driven by a need to be seen to be separate from the (Woodside-operated) North West Shelf project (on the Pilbara mainland)".
In the wake of the $9bn Gorgon blowout, it seems unlikely that any new greenfields LNG projects will be approved in Australia for some time.

Perhaps it's the end of the boom as we know it.

This news story is reprinted from www.smartcompany.com.au.

To read more details, Please click here

• Posted by BBWG129 at 15:50:54 in Tax News

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[Trickypig]

Woody,

Australia is in the middle of a resources boom. It's why our dollar is so strong. The constant and unending line from the resources sector is how high their costs are. Australia's wealthiest person Gina Rinehart leads those complaints and wants to import affordable labour from SE Asia.

Her private wealth has grown from 1.8 billion dollars in 2006 to over 29 billion dollars this year.

The Chevron boss is just whistling her tune. They'll still pull out massive amounts of LPG when the project is complete and they'll make profits.

[olaf hart]

From where I sit Australia is in no position to cast stones at anyone.
Sure the resources boom is holding up the dollar, but the rest of the economy is down the plug hole.
We have governments riddled by corruption and nepotism.
Our markets are dominated by ologopolies.
The country is run by union officials who are above the law.
When China and India have grown sick of our overpriced coal and Iron ore, and production from Africa and Brazil comes on line, we are stuffed.

[Trickypig]

When China and India have grown sick of our overpriced coal and Iron ore, and production from Africa and Brazil comes on line, we are stuffed.

However, the recent surge of the last 2 years in mining investment (which is for the future) would indicate that investors don't fear that any time soon

[olaf hart]

Well, my brother is over in Africa negotiating agreements for one of our major miners.
A mate who speaks Portuguese is doing the same thing in Brazil.
The big miners know where the future is.
When they come on line with different cost structures, production will shift from Australia, but the big miners will still control the market.

[MSA]

I disagree they are looking at other Countries as an exit strategy from Australia..

Any Company with enough capital or means to raise capital will "broarden their horizons".. Why the F would they shut down one when they can make double the amount and have both...

Iron Ore hit a record low of $74/t.. guess what.. It Costs FMG $75/t to produce. Any they continued to mine and sell, while loosing $1/t. May not sound like a lot but about 15% of the office staff where sacked, the next week it was back up and the re-hired some of the people back, but not all and the company is better off.

Part of the reason for high costs is the excess staff and process implemented by the companies them selves. If the market rate drops, they will just find ways to reduce overheads.. It wont cause the "boom" to "bust" overnight.

[Leka]

Funny about Mr Krzywosinski's rant.
Everyone knew Gorgon would blow out long before Mr K started blowing his horn.

Barrow Island is a shit fight. They have done well to keep the place running, but construction was always going to be difficult. We were involved in the early bidding and could not beleive the numbers they were using.

If Mr K cannot/did not see that then he is more of a fool than I previously thought.
Mr K, You have just made a big fool of yourself (again).

Funny, but we have a couple of big LNG projects kicking off soon in Aust. Sure does not look like some of the majors are cutting back on them as yet.

Maybe Chevron are not as smart as you think they are....................

[Walrus]

There is a long history of American executives coming to Australia and failing. The head of Chevron looks like another one.

[DoRag]

From where I sit Australia is in no position to cast stones at anyone.
Sure the resources boom is holding up the dollar, but the rest of the economy is down the plug hole.
We have governments riddled by corruption and nepotism.
Our markets are dominated by ologopolies.
The country is run by union officials who are above the law.
When China and India have grown sick of our overpriced coal and Iron ore, and production from Africa and Brazil comes on line, we are stuffed.

Why is Australia selling many of their natural resources to China? I can't understand selling the fundamental basis for the wealth of the nation.

[Folding prop]

From where I sit Australia is in no position to cast stones at anyone.
Sure the resources boom is holding up the dollar, but the rest of the economy is down the plug hole.
We have governments riddled by corruption and nepotism.
Our markets are dominated by ologopolies.
The country is run by union officials who are above the law.
When China and India have grown sick of our overpriced coal and Iron ore, and production from Africa and Brazil comes on line, we are stuffed.

Why is Australia selling many of their natural resources to China? I can't understand selling the fundamental basis for the wealth of the nation.

From where I sit Australia is in no position to cast stones at anyone.
Sure the resources boom is holding up the dollar, but the rest of the economy is down the plug hole.
We have governments riddled by corruption and nepotism.
Our markets are dominated by ologopolies.
The country is run by union officials who are above the law.
When China and India have grown sick of our overpriced coal and Iron ore, and production from Africa and Brazil comes on line, we are stuffed.

Why is Australia selling many of their natural resources to China? I can't understand selling the fundamental basis for the wealth of the nation.

Hey poop-rag, China already owns us. I'm back and am your worst nightmare.

[DA-WOODY]

[Trickypig]

Well, my brother is over in Africa negotiating agreements for one of our major miners.
A mate who speaks Portuguese is doing the same thing in Brazil.
The big miners know where the future is.
When they come on line with different cost structures, production will shift from Australia, but the big miners will still control the market.

There is a lot of infrastructure and skilled labour needed for these enterprises. An engineering friend of mine said that until our dollar got so strong our skilled/technical labour force was one of the more affordable in the world.

The problem I have with the constant `sky is falling' talk of the corporates is that our dollar has become absurdly strong yet the stock prices of their companies are rising, dividends have been good and investment in further infrastructure continues. Record number of ships sitting off Newcastle for it's coal, new mines being dug, new LPG deposits being exploited. If Australia's resources sector is uncompetitive, nobody has told the analysts and their investors.

I think Australia's only concern is for any drop in China's production. Like any booming new market, there'll be an `adjustment' in their economy sooner or later and that'll hurt us. Rest assured the corporates will be blaming unions, taxes and red tape, not the international economics of the situation.

[Trickypig]

Australia' biggest ever corporate loss was made when an American CEO took charge of the Australian insurance mutual AMP. First he demutualised it, then with the cash, he headed over to the UK and bought a large UK company. When the liabilities from a hurricane (that had already hit the US) hit the books they bailed out of that company after a short time with a 3 billion dollar loss. Well done George.

He left Australia after telling saying the Australian business community were yellow bellied cowards. Yeah, enjoy your 13 million dollar payout George.

How does one get a 13 million dollar payout for losing 3 billion?

We thought we were so sophisticated to have a highly paid American CEO.

P.S. I like Americans but a bit of Dorag baiting never goes astray.

[casc27]

Australia' biggest ever corporate loss was made when an American CEO took charge of the Australian insurance mutual AMP. First he demutualised it, then with the cash, he headed over to the UK and bought a large UK company. When the liabilities from a hurricane (that had already hit the US) hit the books they bailed out of that company after a short time with a 3 billion dollar loss. Well done George.

He left Australia after telling saying the Australian business community were yellow bellied cowards. Yeah, enjoy your 13 million dollar payout George.

How does one get a 13 million dollar payout for losing 3 billion?

We thought we were so sophisticated to have a highly paid American CEO.

P.S. I like Americans but a bit of Dorag baiting never goes astray.

Well, sounds like you got yourself a highly paid American CEO and got exactly what you should have expected: poor performance richly rewarded. Personally, I would have lost the 3 billion for a mere 5 million.

[Walrus]

Do Rag:

Why is Australia selling many of their natural resources to China? I can't understand selling the fundamental basis for the wealth of the nation.

Because we can.

Maybe we can sell you:

- a universal single payer health system that works reasonably well for a 1.5% annual levy on taxeable income.

- An unemployment benefit system that is tough but fair, where most of the services are provided by the private sector.

- Some economists who can get your unemployment rate to 5.5%

- We will toss in Kevin Rudd, Juila Gillard and Tony Abbot (politicians) for free.

All we want in exchange is Sigourney Weaver and Julia Roberts.

........And Stephen Colbert!

[SW Sailor]

Who are the ten John Does mentioned in the title to the proceedings. Have they been identified and are they entering a defense?

You can guess who the J Does will be - it's rather obvious. DM will wait until the anti SLAPP matter is swatted away, then file against these heinous transgressors and the fur will fly!

knock knock, shit for brains.

You've been quoting the same BS for two years now.

[Sailabout]

Woody,

Australia is in the middle of a resources boom. It's why our dollar is so strong. The constant and unending line from the resources sector is how high their costs are. Australia's wealthiest person Gina Rinehart leads those complaints and wants to import affordable labour from SE Asia.

Her private wealth has grown from 1.8 billion dollars in 2006 to over 29 billion dollars this year.

The Chevron boss is just whistling her tune. They'll still pull out massive amounts of LPG when the project is complete and they'll make profits.

you mean the end, not to mention the most indebted households in the world, and the other half of the ecomomy already dead, house prices high enough for a 30% drop....lets see how OZ looks in 12 months
Oh and yes the US ( who saved our arses in WWII, thanks) has been going down the path of self destruction for the last 40 years
( PS I do still come home from my frequent US trips with a full suitcase - there's still value over there all be it only money borrowed from China, so thanks China for keeping prices down in the US and buying our coal and iron ore)
(PPS I am stocking up on remimbi so when you announce its the only gold backed currency in the world and hence will become the number 1 reserve and trading currency I will be set up)

[Leka]

Woody,

Australia is in the middle of a resources boom. It's why our dollar is so strong. The constant and unending line from the resources sector is how high their costs are. Australia's wealthiest person Gina Rinehart leads those complaints and wants to import affordable labour from SE Asia.

Her private wealth has grown from 1.8 billion dollars in 2006 to over 29 billion dollars this year.

The Chevron boss is just whistling her tune. They'll still pull out massive amounts of LPG when the project is complete and they'll make profits.

you mean no where near the end.............(other crap deleted)....lets see how OZ looks in 12 months
Oh and yes the US ( who saved our arses in WWII, thanks) has been going down the path of self destruction for the last 40 years

Fixed it for you.....
You really need to do some more research before you make sweeping statements like that.

12 months??? Yep, no worries. Lets have a look then.
Beers will be on me!!!

Let's find some really toffy Yacht Club, where we can drink Boags or Little Creatures on draught..............cause I love pretending I'm rich!!!

Maybe Royal Sydney will do.
I'll walk down one Sunday morning and meet you there shall I?
Oh, you'll have to use your own membership as I have used up my 'guests' allocations for now.

[Sailabout]

how do you explain the increasing trade and current account deficit?
( nothing to do with less mining exports at a lower cost I suppose)
www.debtclock.com.au
www.australiandebtclock.com.au

[Leka]

As I mentioned earlier, best you do some more research before you make sweeping statements like that.

Please do not restrict yourself to the Internet to do all of your research.

Example that contradicts your earlier assumptions (You can get the Internet to tell you whatever you want)

Did you know the world was ending soon anyway??


http://thepressnet.c...4-of-irish-gdp/

[DA-WOODY]

As I mentioned earlier, best you do some more research before you make sweeping statements like that.

Please do not restrict yourself to the Internet to do all of your research.

Example that contradicts your earlier assumptions (You can get the Internet to tell you whatever you want)

Did you know the world was ending soon anyway??


http://thepressnet.c...4-of-irish-gdp/

might be right

were you around the Quake & Wash ??

Not as BIG but Scarry in the same place

[Leka]

Woody,
Quake and Wash was a non-event.
Lotsa bumps and a bit of a high tide.
Press reporting n injuries.

Have to say though, a couple of bigger ones close together like that is a bit of a worry.
A 7.3 in the morning that caused the Wash, and a 6.3 later in the afternoon that shook Yokohama.
All in the Fukishima area, roughly close to the last big one.

Maybe just some settling, or the warnings of the next big one? Wish I knew the answer to that one.

Mrs Leka was a bit worried as she thought someone was trying to break into the house until she quickly realised what was going on.

[GybeSet®]

P.S. I like Americans but a bit of Dorag baiting never goes astray.

mad as a gumtree full of galahs

[Sailabout]

As I mentioned earlier, best you do some more research before you make sweeping statements like that.

Please do not restrict yourself to the Internet to do all of your research.

Example that contradicts your earlier assumptions (You can get the Internet to tell you whatever you want)

www.abs.gov.au

[Maxx Baqustae]

I didn't know I was in PA - take it there please!

A silly place.

[jocal505]

What the fuck has this thread turned into?

1. An intelligent discussion of US economic inequity.
2. A DoRag nightmare.

[jocal505]

Besides, we took the Americas cup from you, so there..

Well said sir! With all due respect to Bob Perry and his father, and as a patriotic American myself, I thank you Walrus for an excellent rant. Some people just can't handle the truth about what has gone wrong in the USA in the last sixty years (and especially during the illegitimate and reprehensible Cheney/Bush regime!). I sincerely appreciate the truth, no matter who says it.

+2.
Touching posts, Bob Perry. My deepest reverence for your father and his companions.
My pop was at Tarawa, and Tinian. As a matter of family honor, the experience was not to be discussed.
But on a good day, I could bring it up now, and say a powerful thanks. I think I shall, BP.

But Walrus's words are not slagging, rather perspective and wisdom from a global platform IMO.
We would do well to heed the words for possible merit.---which is exactly what DoRag & Co.are not doing.
Greed only gets us so far.

[Walrus]

To Rob Perry:

Your Dad and my Dad may have crossed paths in Tokyo after the war. After fighting through New Guinea and the Solomons he ended up as a war crimes investigator in Tokyo. He solved one or Two war crimes and people were hanged as a result.

[Sol Rosenberg]

A Suffolk Superior Court judge has ruled that Meyers, who cofounded First Marblehead 21 years ago, reneged on two personal deals to borrow money so he could buy more stock and maintain his ownership stake in the fast-growing business during the 1990s.
Judge Christine Roach found Meyers acted in bad faith and would have to pay that tab - about $45 million, including interest - to an investor who bankrolled the stock transactions years ago.
Buried in the ruling is a simple lesson. It pays to settle disputes while everyone can profit. The future may not be so generous.

The Meyers award will probably be the largest to come out of any Massachusetts court since 2010. It would be the biggest in recent memory requiring a person, rather than a company or organization, to pay.

Meyers owes $45 million in stock deal

[jww]

A Suffolk Superior Court judge has ruled that Meyers, who cofounded First Marblehead 21 years ago, reneged on two personal deals to borrow money so he could buy more stock and maintain his ownership stake in the fast-growing business during the 1990s.
Judge Christine Roach found Meyers acted in bad faith and would have to pay that tab - about $45 million, including interest - to an investor who bankrolled the stock transactions years ago.
Buried in the ruling is a simple lesson. It pays to settle disputes while everyone can profit. The future may not be so generous.

The Meyers award will probably be the largest to come out of any Massachusetts court since 2010. It would be the biggest in recent memory requiring a person, rather than a company or organization, to pay.

Meyers owes $45 million in stock deal

Paging G.I.Joe aka Captain America.Need a reponse quickly! And while you're at it why don't you answer previous questions about your past and current sailing resume that you have ignored.Remember that some of us know who you are.

[Albatros]

A Suffolk Superior Court judge has ruled that Meyers, who cofounded First Marblehead 21 years ago, reneged on two personal deals to borrow money so he could buy more stock and maintain his ownership stake in the fast-growing business during the 1990s.
Judge Christine Roach found Meyers acted in bad faith and would have to pay that tab - about $45 million, including interest - to an investor who bankrolled the stock transactions years ago.
Buried in the ruling is a simple lesson. It pays to settle disputes while everyone can profit. The future may not be so generous.

The Meyers award will probably be the largest to come out of any Massachusetts court since 2010. It would be the biggest in recent memory requiring a person, rather than a company or organization, to pay.

Meyers owes $45 million in stock deal

can anyone remind us of the going price of the ed's FT, Clean's pink flag and let's just throw in the silly motorbike too

['moondance44]

I have a standing offer in at $35k.
havent heard back

[Loco.]

A Suffolk Superior Court judge has ruled that Meyers, who cofounded First Marblehead 21 years ago, reneged on two personal deals to borrow money so he could buy more stock and maintain his ownership stake in the fast-growing business during the 1990s.
Judge Christine Roach found Meyers acted in bad faith and would have to pay that tab - about $45 million, including interest - to an investor who bankrolled the stock transactions years ago.
Buried in the ruling is a simple lesson. It pays to settle disputes while everyone can profit. The future may not be so generous.

The Meyers award will probably be the largest to come out of any Massachusetts court since 2010. It would be the biggest in recent memory requiring a person, rather than a company or organization, to pay.

Meyers owes $45 million in stock deal

Grifter?

Confirmed.

Easy win for defendants.

[readyabout82]

i cant find the actual written case- any legal whizzes wanna take a stab at it? also, not sure if a civil suit would help to prove criminal acts.

[Sol Rosenberg]

i cant find the actual written case- any legal whizzes wanna take a stab at it? also, not sure if a civil suit would help to prove criminal acts.

I would think that truth would be an affirmative defense, and that ruling would be probative on that issue.

[DA-WOODY]

i cant find the actual written case- any legal whizzes wanna take a stab at it? also, not sure if a civil suit would help to prove criminal acts.

I would think that truth would be an affirmative defense, and that ruling would be probative on that issue.

I would comment but for fear of having to use words that others think mean something else I won't

any fish biting lately ???

I don't know all the words

[nolatom]

Is Meyers actually from Marblehead? I see he's a Brandeis boy so it's possible.

I guess you can take any town's name and name your business after it? Too bad.



(from an expat 'Header)

[readyabout82]

i cant find the actual written case- any legal whizzes wanna take a stab at it? also, not sure if a civil suit would help to prove criminal acts.

I would think that truth would be an affirmative defense, and that ruling would be probative on that issue.

i sure would love to read the actual case... linky anyone???

[Sol Rosenberg]

i cant find the actual written case- any legal whizzes wanna take a stab at it? also, not sure if a civil suit would help to prove criminal acts.

I would think that truth would be an affirmative defense, and that ruling would be probative on that issue.

i sure would love to read the actual case... linky anyone???

I looked, but couldn't find it.