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#1 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 04:57 PM

Official 'in principle' agreement announced:
---

Naples, Italy to host two America's Cup World Series events
Posted on 14 September 2011

Naples, Italy, has agreed in principle to host two stops on the America's Cup World Series; the first will be in April 2012, the second in May 2013.

Designed to expose millions more people to the sport of high-performance racing, the new professional circuit was created to bring the America's Cup experience to top international venues.

"I'm very pleased to confirm we will be bringing the America's Cup World Series to Naples," said Richard Worth, the Chairman of the America's Cup Event Authority. "Naples offers us a Mediterranean backdrop, and a stadium set-up within the Bay of Naples – a perfect complement to the exciting racing the AC World Series provides."

A delegation from the Naples event organizing committee, including the Mayor of Naples Luigi de Magistris, and the Governor of Campania Stefano Caldoro, the Deputy President of the Province of Naples Gennaro Ferrara, the President of the Industrial Union Paolo Graziano, and President of Bagnolifutura Riccardo Marone, are in Plymouth this week, reviewing facilities, the set-up of the technical areas and the race village and enjoying the racing.

(contd)

Posted Image

#2 Te Kooti

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 05:33 PM

Dear Patrizio,

It would be nice to see you again.

Does this news about Naples make a difference?

So, how about you speak to the missus and buy an AC45?

Cheers, TK



#3 Mariner

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 06:49 PM

Wow, Stingray beat Eagles to the punch! .... no matter.... Eagles will still be putting up a "Countdown to Naples" thread any second.:)

#4 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 06:51 PM

Three news report videos, in Italian
--

America's Cup - Luigi de Magistris - Sindaco di Napoli

America's Cup, Napoli ce l'ha fatta

TG Regione Campania 14/09/11 - Gare di qualificazione America's Cup: la firma

Photo at ZeroG - (g-tran)

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#5 Albatros

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 09:03 PM

LMAO ... well then, Naples being the world capital on garbage collection sure makes this an appropriate place for this one too :D (sorry Xlot, couldn't resist)

#6 Mariner

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 09:13 PM

Fond memories of taking the ferry from Napoli to Capri for a few days then back and down the Amalfi Coast as well as of course seeing Pompei. Next we'll be wondering what VO would be thinking abou the what iffs???

#7 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 09:39 PM

Fond memories of taking the ferry from Napoli to Capri for a few days then back and down the Amalfi Coast as well as of course seeing Pompei. Next we'll be wondering what VO would be thinking abou the what iffs???

Yep to all that, exactly.

Have been thru the museum in Naples too, and Herculaneum is also a good stroll. But apparently the garbage, and the pick pockets, make Naples itself a roughish place to stay. Would be Capri or Sorrento for me.

#8 GBR1

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:33 PM

Official 'in principle' agreement announced:
---

Naples, Italy to host two America's Cup World Series events
Posted on 14 September 2011

Naples, Italy, has agreed in principle to host two stops on the America's Cup World Series; the first will be in April 2012, the second in May 2013.

Great location! Cannot wait. At least it should be warmer than Plymouth!
HOWEVER

Designed to expose millions more people to the sport of high-performance racing,

Will these guys ever stop with this self serving rubbish. Do they really think anybody believes it? Millions more people? FFS!!It might be designed to but it isn't achieving it. I guess this is rather like them doubling the estimated attendance in Plymouth. I would love to be their statistics guy. You just make up numbers as you go along, and then double them:D

#9 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:38 PM

^ The PR won't get to you, if you don't let it. A bunch of those lines are rubber stamped, for people who don't read them as often as we here do.

I think an Anarchy hangout on Anacapri would be extremely cool. Reasonable too, you'd be surprised. Can almost taste the Lacryma Christi and their Limoncello.

#10 Mariner

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:43 PM

^ The PR won't get to you, if you don't let it. A bunch of those lines are rubber stamped, for people who don't read them as often as we here do.

I think an Anarchy hangout on Anacapri would be extremely cool. Reasonable too, you'd be surprised. Can almost taste the Lacryma Christi and the Lemoncello.



You get to Anacapri, you'd never go back to Naples

#11 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:48 PM

Lol, true. My dad and I once waited for the tourists to disappear then dove into a high tide Med, underwater into the Blue Grotto, naked, with a cold bottle that we opened inside, light shimmering like all psychedelia. We should never have left; but perhaps we never did.

#12 Mariner

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 10:57 PM

Lol, true. My dad and I once waited for the tourists to disappear then dove into a high tide Med, underwater into the Blue Grotto, naked, with a cold bottle that we opened inside, light shimmering like all psychedelia. We should never have left; but perhaps we didn't.



Unbelievable, I did the same, but not naked. Was staying at the hostel on that end of the island, waited for the tourists to leave, and dove in. I think that those of us who've swam into the Blue Grotto have experienced it in a way that with a costumed canoe paddler just would not do! Then ran into the girls I was traveling with at the beach and we went on to scooter down the Amalfi Coast. The entire roman empire ruled from that Island by Hadrian at one time. Too great.

#13 Dixie

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:01 PM

There are other islands out there aside from Capri, but none quite like it.
I like Naples...Good pizza, good stadium, GREAT museum, friendly people. It can work...and certainly more logistically feasible than Capri.

Hasn't Naples always been on our radar anyway?

#14 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:01 PM

M - Yep, that's the way to do it!

The Tiberius Leap at Villa Jovis is an amazing spot too. It's from there that he supposedly sent the order to just kill that rabble rouser, whoever he was, down in Judea.

Villa Jovis was all about wine cellars, from what I can make of the ruins. Spectacular view of the Gulf of Naples, it may even be a superb race vantage point, with bino's.

#15 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:04 PM

Dixie, yes Ischia is nice too, been there? Very popular with especially Germans.

Agreed on Neapolitan style pizza, it is the BEST! Also from where it originates. Simple, fresh, crispy... Damn! :)

#16 Dixie

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:35 PM

Indeed, I have been to Ischia - when we were there in June a few years back, the hotel / restaurant / spa costs were surprisingly reasonable. Germans I think flock there a little later in the summer. There were lots of Europeans there, no specific country. It's a nice, big, interesting island.

And don't forget Pompei is not too far away...generally a lot to see if you use Naples as a jumping off point. And with the racing, it's just one more thing. :-)


With Venice AND Naples as venues, 'twould sure be a good time for an Italian team to enter - imagine the throngs that would flock to cheer them on. There'd be hundreds of thousands, I'm sure. (that last was a bit tongue and cheek, for those who can't hear me as I write. Posted Image)

ps SR you are up to 998 now.




#17 Stingray

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 11:46 PM

Thank you, Dixie, on the count... I was afraid of that!

I'm almost certain that Bertelli is a Go, there has to have been a meeting of the minds in Plymouth. Larry's yacht has been spotted, Bertelli too, it's even possible EB is around.

The timing (shortly after Venezia) of the Naples venue, that's 4 Italian venues out of only 12 - 14 probable slots, strongly suggest an Italian entry by April if not sooner.

Going farther afield, Ainslie's signing with Oman Sail has to be a major contract, we could see a venue announced for there too. Those Italy dates would seem to preclude a trip down under. Cutting the Suez Canal is a real possibility, for the Jan/Feb timeframe.

#18 ~Stingray~

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 08:28 PM

In case this is interesting. G-tran of the caption:
Neapolitan boat America's Cup is the dream of sailing clubs Neapolitan two-step ahead of the World Series America's Cup awarded to Napoli, after the withdrawal of participation from the team Mascalzone Latino.



#19 sunseeker

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:07 PM

Thank you, Dixie, on the count... I was afraid of that!

I'm almost certain that Bertelli is a Go, there has to have been a meeting of the minds in Plymouth. Larry's yacht has been spotted, Bertelli too, it's even possible EB is around.

The timing (shortly after Venezia) of the Naples venue, that's 4 Italian venues out of only 12 - 14 probable slots, strongly suggest an Italian entry by April if not sooner.

Going farther afield, Ainslie's signing with Oman Sail has to be a major contract, we could see a venue announced for there too. Those Italy dates would seem to preclude a trip down under. Cutting the Suez Canal is a real possibility, for the Jan/Feb timeframe.


Remember, GreenCom is in the mix of Italy somehow too.

#20 ~Stingray~

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:47 PM

Remember, GreenCom is in the mix of Italy somehow too.

True, GreenComm may well engender a fan interest for the Italy events. I suppose Venezia Chall could be in the mix too somehow.

But there are several articles out of Naples today suggesting that they will either announce a new ACWS entry on Sep29, or else maybe just announce that they have received an invitation to enter one if they can in time; hard for me to tell which from those newsclips. Some articles suggest they expect a pretty big event, with super yachts everywhere, massive numbers of paying spectator boats (at, like E4500 per day), overall spending into the tens of millions of euros. This is potentially quite lucrative; and so the price of fielding an AC45 seems almost just a drop in the ocean compared to the additional local interest and attendance that a Napoli boat's entry might bring to the event.

Most of today's news items stem from comments made by the Provincial governor, Caldoro. Here are a couple of them

http://translate.goo...%26sez%3DNAPOLI

http://translate.goo...3D14773&act=url

#21 Mariner

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:53 PM

In case this is interesting. G-tran of the caption:
Neapolitan boat America's Cup is the dream of sailing clubs Neapolitan two-step ahead of the World Series America's Cup awarded to Napoli, after the withdrawal of participation from the team Mascalzone Latino.




Looks like Vincenzo is having a good run in Palma in the Melges 30 Worlds (see fp link). Why would he want to do the AC? Strict one design rules, big fleet, only a few crew, hot babes, who could ask for more?

#22 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 09:55 PM

If ACEA is planning another venue in Italy they should think of Elba. Great place, infrastructure, natural amphiater, nice people, not too expansive, great fort, Napoleon's house, close to Roma, just a great place.

#23 EaglesPDX

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:23 PM

Naples, Italy to host two America's Cup World Series events



Dude! You screwed the pooch. The format, started by others I might add, is "Countdown to another spectacular AC45 venue" for the lead up discussion and then "Spectacular Venue Month/Day" for the live racing chat and followup discussions each day of racing.



#24 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 September 2011 - 04:43 PM

fwiw

Servizio del TGR Campania su tappe America's Cup World Series a Napoli



#25 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 07:10 PM

from an article here

Posted Image


may or may not be interesting (in Italian):









#26 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 08:51 PM

Camorra controls Napoli harbour, did ACEA get an agreement with them too, or will they have to pays the "security taxes" ? ;)

#27 EaglesPDX

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 09:29 PM

Naples is getting two events for that E5m (plus whatever in kind things are being added I suppose), maybe that's why they are so pleased to get it. Like Plymouth, in Naples they are saying the image it generates is also valuable to them.

Is that confirmed somewhere that Naples paid $5M cash to AC34 to hold two AC45 race events in Naples?

#28 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 09:47 PM

Yes, it's in an Italian article somewhere. The 5m comes from 3 entities, and is paid over 2 years, leading to my impression they get both for that same host venue fee. There are more details, including apparently a race village description, so far only at a subscription-only newspaper site.

I get the feeling there are still some loose ends but on Sep 29 there will be more info coming, at a press conference that Worth and others will attend.

The cleanup of the Bagnoli site is a hotly debated subject in Naples; and at least one person involved was recently arrested on charges of misspending funds; so it's hardly a Newport-neat or a San Diego sanity situation, to my G-tranned reading of it so far. Fingers crossed, since again I love the Amalfi Coast and Capri. Would look stunning on TV too.

Venice may also be paying about that, one figure said 8m all told, so that surely must cover both their events.

#29 Xlot

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:04 PM

Posted Image


Like the plan?

FWIW, my comment's in post #50 here

#30 EaglesPDX

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:14 PM

Yes, it's in an Italian article somewhere. The 5m comes from 3 entities, and is paid over 2 years, leading to my impression they get both for that same host venue fee. There are more details, including apparently a race village description, so far only at a subscription-only newspaper site.

I get the feeling there are still some loose ends but on Sep 29 there will be more info coming, at a press conference that Worth and others will attend.

The cleanup of the Bagnoli site is a hotly debated subject in Naples; and at least one person involved was recently arrested on charges of misspending funds; so it's hardly a Newport-neat or a San Diego sanity situation, to my G-tranned reading of it so far. Fingers crossed, since again I love the Amalfi Coast and Capri. Would look stunning on TV too.

Venice may also be paying about that, one figure said 8m all told, so that surely must cover both their events.


That is certainly a coup for AC34 and for Worth's America's Cup Event Authority if it got paid $8M by Naples and Venice for staging three events. Gorgeous, easy to get to venues. Sounds good from a commercial standpoint but Naples (The average Wind is 4 mph with a historical range of 1 mph to 18 mph) and Venice (The average Wind is 6 mph with a historical range of 2 mph to 15 mph) don't sound very exciting for racing. Plymouth got way more press than did Cascais and it was because of the exciting sailing conditions.

Something AC34 should consider as the situation is reversed in that AC34 stands to gain with exciting race venues and lose with dull ones.

Much of the value of the races is calculated in media coverage of the event. How much is the media coverage and audience worth to AC34 if the exciting racing mean more sponsors see it and say they want to be part of the show vs. doing dull travelogues in exotic destinations. Spithills comment that Plymouth had conditions very much like San Francisco. Potential sponsors are likely to be more motivated to be part of Plymouth type event in San Francisco in bigger boats than in San Diego/Naples/Venice type events, pretty but uninspiring.

#31 Tony-F18

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:26 PM

While €5m may sound like a lot of money, for a city with 1m people I doubt it is a significant percentage of the promotion/marketing budget.

#32 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:32 PM

^ agreed, it's peanuts on the scale of a Naples but the politics are so ferociously hot there, it's sure to be made a big issue of all the same.

#33 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:38 PM


Posted Image


Like the plan?

FWIW, my comment's in post #50 here

Yep, prescient of you. And yes, that site needs some help.

Apparently with some just-released funds, the work is starting Monday.

#34 EaglesPDX

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:53 PM



Posted Image


Yep, prescient of you. And yes, that site needs some help.

Apparently with some just-released funds, the work is starting Monday.


A LOT of funds. And it seems so far out of town, not much "AC45 village effect"....media will be grumpy if they are tented up in the Bagnoli.

Attached File  Bagnoli.jpg   312.75K   5 downloads

#35 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 11:26 PM

Yes, it serves a larger purpose which is to spur a release the already-allocated larger funds necessary to do an environmental cleanup of the area. The environmentalists take issue with just how the cleanup is to be done, and have I think even filed a lawsuit over it.

#36 EaglesPDX

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 11:54 PM

Yes, it serves a larger purpose which is to spur a release the already-allocated larger funds necessary to do an environmental cleanup of the area. The environmentalists take issue with just how the cleanup is to be done, and have I think even filed a lawsuit over it.


For a self contained event like AC45, they could just level and sod over the vast wasteland, add a few (hundred) potted palms. Create a quick Potemkin sailing village. Acres of parking, make a fair of it, have a ferry from the main port area to bring people to the village. But this looks dicey for AC34. The area is out of town and just a wasteland. That anything substantial could be done in a year seems unlikely. This the problem in picking venues that pay cash vs. venues that provide great events. I think "great events" has more pay back.

#37 ~Stingray~

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 12:25 AM

^ agreed, think that's all they will do by April. There is also a bridge they want to replace, so ferry access to the bases may be all they can provide.

San Augustino (is it, X? on a phone..) is where the entertainment and grandstands would be set up. That area should at least be highly accessible.

#38 Xlot

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 08:20 AM

Uh-oh: the Sept 29 presser has been postponed "to the end of October, so that additional details on site preparation may be supplied".

Please god, not a repeat of the ML shame ..

#39 eric e

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 11:40 AM

an announcement in 1 month's time?

guess they need a little more time to convince the germans to pay for it all...

#40 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 September 2011 - 01:07 PM

Xlot may be able to correct this but my impression is they have been trying to determine the path forward on the Bagnoli site since the mid 90's when the polluting steel mill got shut down. It was designated one of 26 'superfund' cleanup sites in Italy, and is the only one not yet even started. About E30m is budgeted for it, a small part has already been (mis) spent, but ihas gotten nowhere near shovel time so far. Caldro (provincial Gov of Naples?) has said that they offered 3 sites for the ACWS venue, and that it was ACEA who preferred Bagnoli. But my guess is that it's him and others pressing for that site over San Vincenzo Molo or elsewhere, because of the kickstart they hope it can provide for the business of beginning the real work, using money released from the larger cleanup fund with this as the impetus. We could well see it go to Vincenzo instead, as Xlot's first reaction was too - for other good reasons besides it being easier politically and financially a site.

Let's hope they figure ~something~ out, soon.

#41 GauchoGreg

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:26 PM

Isn't there supposed to be some news from Italy today?

#42 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:33 PM

Isn't there supposed to be some news from Italy today?

That meeting has been postponed by 30 days.

#43 sunseeker

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:41 PM


Isn't there supposed to be some news from Italy today?

That meeting has been postponed by 30 days.


So in other words, what we have at this point in time are really just proposed dates for ACWS events in Naples? Nothing is firmed up and won't be for at least 30 days? Is that the way this should read?

#44 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 04:50 PM



Isn't there supposed to be some news from Italy today?

That meeting has been postponed by 30 days.


So in other words, what we have at this point in time are really just proposed dates for ACWS events in Naples? Nothing is firmed up and won't be for at least 30 days? Is that the way this should read?

Yes, that's my (g-tranned) reading of it too. There was a meeting yesterday, the mayor got approval on some local legislation, but they do not yet have all the ducks in a row. The one ACEA announcement on Naples so far called it an agreement 'in principal' - somewhat short of the full meal deal announcement that has apparently been postponed from today.

IF the locals are not able to square things away in Naples, and IF the ACEA do not fulfill them elsewhere, then it would be a long time between San Diego and Venice, late November until mid May. Sure would be nice to see Feb (Middle East?) and April (Naples? Trapani? somewhere on the way to Venice) solidified soon. The recent Richard Worth interview suggested there is no big line of cities eagerly knocking at the door, so... fingers crossed.

#45 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:08 PM

^ a few g-trans
http://translate.goo...-cup_feed_11937

http://translate.goo...ensione_in_Aula

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fnapoli.repubblica.it%2Fdettaglio-news%2F17%3A23%2F4041262
in Italian





#46 Xlot

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 05:23 PM

OMFG: 700,000 spectators foreseen for each event, lots of new jobs, "the WS are not an end but a means to get so far denied funds from the government for the Bagnoli reclamation" ..

#47 sunseeker

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:23 PM

OMFG: 700,000 spectators foreseen for each event, lots of new jobs, "the WS are not an end but a means to get so far denied funds from the government for the Bagnoli reclamation" ..


I assume you are Italian, and therefore clearly understand what is being said by the locals in Naples, and they are now claiming 700,000 spectators will be there for the ACWS? Is that correct?

#48 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:51 PM


OMFG: 700,000 spectators foreseen for each event, lots of new jobs, "the WS are not an end but a means to get so far denied funds from the government for the Bagnoli reclamation" ..


I assume you are Italian, and therefore clearly understand what is being said by the locals in Naples, and they are now claiming 700,000 spectators will be there for the ACWS? Is that correct?

Pop goes the ACEA kool-aid!

#49 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 06:57 PM

Well it's the Neapolitan boosters who are using boosted number projections, also for economic impacts, and why should anyone be surprised? Like Xlot says, the ACWS events are being used as a means to kickstart a greater end, the reclamation of Bagnoli.

It's not that different from how Newport sees improvements to Fort Adams, just on a bigger scale.

#50 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:10 PM

Well it's the Neapolitan boosters who are using boosted number projections, also for economic impacts, and why should anyone be surprised? Like Xlot says, the ACWS events are being used as a means to kickstart a greater end, the reclamation of Bagnoli.

It's not that different from how Newport sees improvements to Fort Adams, just on a bigger scale.

And you are presumably claiming that this Italian prediction, like those for Plymouth and Cascais are entirely the creation of the host city? That ACEAgles and his friends (you and SW) have had no input into the hype? So far you guys are running at about 10% of your imagination when it comes to attendance levels.

#51 jhc

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:40 PM

Naples is in a word: contrary.

I once began a "tri golfe" race from naples harbor at midnight. Start line was between the 40 or so auto headlamps that were mounted on a swivel, and the bell buoy in the center of the harbor.

Great dinner party at the y.c.naples, prior to the race start. Movie stars, writers, and local elite. Then we ran to the docks and set off.


Finished the following evening, and went for pizza in the piazza. Fights broke out. Huge traffic jam at 2:00am, then empty streets to the airport at 11:00am.

#52 Tony-F18

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:52 PM

One thing I can recommend when going to Naples is to take the hydrofoil ferry to the small island of Procida for a day. :)
http://g.co/maps/6342n

#53 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 07:54 PM


Well it's the Neapolitan boosters who are using boosted number projections, also for economic impacts, and why should anyone be surprised? Like Xlot says, the ACWS events are being used as a means to kickstart a greater end, the reclamation of Bagnoli.

It's not that different from how Newport sees improvements to Fort Adams, just on a bigger scale.

And you are presumably claiming that this Italian prediction, like those for Plymouth and Cascais are entirely the creation of the host city? That ACEAgles and his friends (you and SW) have had no input into the hype? So far you guys are running at about 10% of your imagination when it comes to attendance levels.

Yes, the quotes I've seen are all from Naples. Can you find ACEA ones?

Keep trying to lump my opinions in with whoever you like, in your silly attempts to suit whatever agenda it is you have going, lol, but: I've never said, anywhere, that Plymouth looked to have 100,000+ spectators. Even dogwatch's 50K strikes me as high, but then I wasn't there, haven't paid much attention to it, and keep asking why in the hell anyone does care so much. That stance prompted several diatribes from PH, who in the end admitted that he didn't actually care either, except for it being an excuse to bash whoever at ACEA, for (possibly legitimate) things that are completely unrelated. Is that where you're at too? Criminy..

My only vague interest is in the economic impact analyses, having done a little econometric modeling at university, back-when, on what sectors get impacted by various budget fluctuations in Defense spending in Hawaii. Any of us can go and read, and many of us did, the more-modern $1.4B study prepared for SF. Is Naples pulling figures from thin air? HellifIknow, but probably, since 700K spectators sure does seem high for a sailboat race - maybe unless they hyped the hell out of it somehow in the lead up to it to get a lot of people interested enough to go down to the waterfront.

Again, I don't care if Naples pays $5m once, or twice, or not, except out of casual interest and amusement and the possibility of it being a place to blow off some vacation days.

It's just not my problem one way or the other how Naples go about their business.

#54 Xlot

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:03 PM


OMFG: 700,000 spectators foreseen for each event, lots of new jobs, "the WS are not an end but a means to get so far denied funds from the government for the Bagnoli reclamation" ..


I assume you are Italian, and therefore clearly understand what is being said by the locals in Naples, and they are now claiming 700,000 spectators will be there for the ACWS? Is that correct?


Yes I am ... have now watched also the second video: there, they mention a Deloitte report, this time with 380,000 visitors maybe it's per event, thus 700,000 in total and €38M "direct impact" - whatever that means, the two figures are suspiciously correlated at exactly €100 per capita, idiotic.
Also, in the final portion you see the present state of the site: of course reclaiming such a large, by now metropolitan area has merit - it's just totally divorced from WS reality/timing.

In terms of job creation, hardly worth mentioning that in Cascais this resulted in 50 volunteer positions, at €10/day plus lunch.

#55 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:03 PM



Well it's the Neapolitan boosters who are using boosted number projections, also for economic impacts, and why should anyone be surprised? Like Xlot says, the ACWS events are being used as a means to kickstart a greater end, the reclamation of Bagnoli.

It's not that different from how Newport sees improvements to Fort Adams, just on a bigger scale.

And you are presumably claiming that this Italian prediction, like those for Plymouth and Cascais are entirely the creation of the host city? That ACEAgles and his friends (you and SW) have had no input into the hype? So far you guys are running at about 10% of your imagination when it comes to attendance levels.

Yes, the quotes I've seen are all from Naples. Can you find ACEA ones?

Keep trying to lump my opinions in with whoever you like, in your silly attempts to suit whatever agenda it is you have going, lol, but: I've never said, anywhere, that Plymouth looked to have 100,000+ spectators. Even dogwatch's 50K strikes me as high, but then I wasn't there, haven't paid much attention to it, and keep asking why in the hell anyone does care so much. That stance prompted several diatribes from PH, who in the end admitted that he didn't actually care either, except for it being an excuse to bash whoever at ACEA, for (possibly legitimate) things that are completely unrelated. Is that where you're at too? Criminy..

My only vague interest is in the economic impact analyses, having done a little econometric modeling at university, back-when, on what sectors get impacted by various budget fluctuations in Defense spending in Hawaii. Any of us can go and read, and many of us did, the more-modern $1.4B study prepared for SF. Is Naples pulling figures from thin air? HellifIknow, but probably, since 700K spectators sure does seem high for a sailboat race - maybe unless they hyped the hell out of it somehow in the lead up to it to get a lot of people interested enough to go down to the waterfront.

Again, I don't care if Naples pays $5m once, or twice, or not, except out casual interest and amusement and the possibility of it being a place to blow off some vacation days.

It's just not my problem one way or the other how Naples go about their business.

Well somewhere along the line Cascais and Plymouth both got the idea from somewhere that they would get 500,000 spectators before an event that produced, in the case of Cascais, quite a lot of holidaymakers (normal for the time of year) and, Plymouth, only about 40,000 attendees (including ACEA and team personnel and multiple counting). So have the burgers of Naples failed to learn from example or are they still sucking at the teat of ACEA hoping that the hype will justify the expense? 2012 can't be an election year in Naples, that's for sure.

#56 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:29 PM

Well somewhere along the line Cascais and Plymouth both got the idea from somewhere that they would get 500,000 spectators before an event that produced, in the case of Cascais, quite a lot of holidaymakers (normal for the time of year) and, Plymouth, only about 40,000 attendees (including ACEA and team personnel and multiple counting). So have the burgers of Naples failed to learn from example or are they still sucking at the teat of ACEA hoping that the hype will justify the expense? 2012 can't be an election year in Naples, that's for sure.

The really big thing for Naples is to get moving on the Bagnoli project, by getting the already-allocated E30M released, in a hurry, using the ACWS event as a catalyst. That the Mayor got unanimous approval from the city council to move forward at city level bodes well. It's the Provincial buy-in they have to achieve next and they will, IMO, get that too when they meet on (think it is) tomorrow. The hard case to make is satisfying all the interested parties on the larger project; business interests seem to be (big surprise) running counter to what some groups would prefer to see there as the end-result ('proper' cleanup, and then parks, beaches, free amenities, etc) and those groups want all that agreed before approving even relatively short-term, maybe even temporary ACWS related infrastructure.

You're right that the venue fees look to be in part paid for by public money; but it is a not-bad argument to make, if you put it into the much larger Bagnoli context - I would think even without accounting for whatever spending or direct income or ripple effects that are strictly attributable to the ACWS events. There is a much bigger ball at play - which unlike Venice also unfortunately makes this much less a certainty that Naples can get it done on the schedule offered to meet the ACWS dates. Guess we'll see.

#57 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:37 PM


Well somewhere along the line Cascais and Plymouth both got the idea from somewhere that they would get 500,000 spectators before an event that produced, in the case of Cascais, quite a lot of holidaymakers (normal for the time of year) and, Plymouth, only about 40,000 attendees (including ACEA and team personnel and multiple counting). So have the burgers of Naples failed to learn from example or are they still sucking at the teat of ACEA hoping that the hype will justify the expense? 2012 can't be an election year in Naples, that's for sure.

ripple effects that are strictly attributable to the ACWS events

You mean like the ripple effects felt in Plymouth? You and your friends ACEAgles and SW make me drop my keyboard laughing again.

#58 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:45 PM

^ On that part, I guess we will see what the University comes up with. The little analysis that I referred to did get included in a larger study, and nobody challenged me over the numbers that resulted; just had to explain the methodology used. Hopefully UK students don't get pushed around either.

#59 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:50 PM

^ On that part, I guess we will see what the University comes up with. The little analysis that I referred to did get included in a larger study, and nobody challenged me over the numbers that resulted; just had to explain the methodology used. Hopefully UK students don't get pushed around either.

I believe that the TLA that covers the "ripple" is SFA.

#60 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 08:53 PM


^ On that part, I guess we will see what the University comes up with. The little analysis that I referred to did get included in a larger study, and nobody challenged me over the numbers that resulted; just had to explain the methodology used. Hopefully UK students don't get pushed around either.

I believe that the TLA that covers the "ripple" is SFA.

Could well be. Some in Plymouth are touting intangibles like 'recognition' and business contacts as having been valuable but I can't see if or how that will get quantified meaningfully, short-term. Again, Bagnoli is a long term project anyway.

#61 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:00 PM



^ On that part, I guess we will see what the University comes up with. The little analysis that I referred to did get included in a larger study, and nobody challenged me over the numbers that resulted; just had to explain the methodology used. Hopefully UK students don't get pushed around either.

I believe that the TLA that covers the "ripple" is SFA.

Could well be. Some in Plymouth are touting intangibles like 'recognition' and business contacts as having been valuable but I can't see if or how that will get quantified meaningfully, short-term. Again, Bagnoli is a long term project anyway.

You make it sound like the host city justification is measured in terms of the size of the municipal junket. Is that the real view of ACEA? Are you selling a municipal junket? No wonder that corporate sponsors are so thin on the ground.

#62 SW Sailor

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:05 PM


And you are presumably claiming that this Italian prediction, like those for Plymouth and Cascais are entirely the creation of the host city? That ACEAgles and his friends (you and SW) have had no input into the hype? So far you guys are running at about 10% of your imagination when it comes to attendance levels.

Yes, the quotes I've seen are all from Naples. Can you find ACEA ones?

Keep trying to lump my opinions in with whoever you like, in your silly attempts to suit whatever agenda it is you have going, lol, but: I've never said, anywhere, that Plymouth looked to have 100,000+ spectators.


"And you are presumably claiming.... blah blah blah." Even weaker than your usual lame attempts, although I will state "put me on ignore so I don't have to read your posts" is an all-time classic Posted Image.

The data comes from the cities, and despite PH's concerted efforts to prove otherwise with Plymouth, no other facts exist.

As in Plymouth, the perception of the event is of bigger interest to me - what the spectators, fans, teams, and organizers think of the event.

Sorry, rocky, you've struck out again - show up with some hard facts next time instead of flimsy speculation and pure conjecture.

#63 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:15 PM



And you are presumably claiming that this Italian prediction, like those for Plymouth and Cascais are entirely the creation of the host city? That ACEAgles and his friends (you and SW) have had no input into the hype? So far you guys are running at about 10% of your imagination when it comes to attendance levels.

Yes, the quotes I've seen are all from Naples. Can you find ACEA ones?

Keep trying to lump my opinions in with whoever you like, in your silly attempts to suit whatever agenda it is you have going, lol, but: I've never said, anywhere, that Plymouth looked to have 100,000+ spectators.

Standing in for ACEAgles today? Why not try joining the conversation for a change rather than posting cheap jibes?


But who gives a pickled herring what you think? You don't know anyone at ACEA except SR and ACEAgles.

#64 sunseeker

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:21 PM



And you are presumably claiming that this Italian prediction, like those for Plymouth and Cascais are entirely the creation of the host city? That ACEAgles and his friends (you and SW) have had no input into the hype? So far you guys are running at about 10% of your imagination when it comes to attendance levels.

Yes, the quotes I've seen are all from Naples. Can you find ACEA ones?

Keep trying to lump my opinions in with whoever you like, in your silly attempts to suit whatever agenda it is you have going, lol, but: I've never said, anywhere, that Plymouth looked to have 100,000+ spectators.


"And you are presumably claiming.... blah blah blah." Even weaker than your usual lame attempts, although I will state "put me on ignore so I don't have to read your posts" is an all-time classic Posted Image.

The data comes from the cities, and despite PH's concerted efforts to prove otherwise with Plymouth, no other facts exist.

As in Plymouth, the perception of the event is of bigger interest to me - what the spectators, fans, teams, and organizers think of the event.

Sorry, rocky, you've struck out again - show up with some hard facts next time instead of flimsy speculation and pure conjecture.


Actually, the people you cite as being of interest, of them, the teams and the organizers are the ones making money, so as long as they get paid, that is what they will base their perception on.

Spectators and fans are the exact same thing. So, if they liked the events, what is their viewership/attendance worth to the equation?

The only perception that really matters are to those writing the checks to pay for all this, Larry for starters, and the prospective sponsors.

Time will tell if AC 34 ends up being a sustainable economic equation. Right now it is an entertainment experiment for the purpose of making money (or at least breaking even) by one of the wealthiest people on the planet, nothing more, nothing less.

#65 pjfranks

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 09:24 PM

Actually, the people you cite as being of interest, of them, the teams and the organizers are the ones making money, so as long as they get paid, that is what they will base their perception on.

Spectators and fans are the exact same thing. So, if they liked the events, what is their viewership/attendance worth to the equation?

The only perception that really matters are to those writing the checks to pay for all this, Larry for starters, and the prospective sponsors.

Time will tell if AC 34 ends up being a sustainable economic equation. Right now it is an entertainment experiment for the purpose of making money (or at least breaking even) by one of the wealthiest people on the planet, nothing more, nothing less.

First class post!

#66 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 10:47 PM


Actually, the people you cite as being of interest, of them, the teams and the organizers are the ones making money, so as long as they get paid, that is what they will base their perception on.

Spectators and fans are the exact same thing. So, if they liked the events, what is their viewership/attendance worth to the equation?

The only perception that really matters are to those writing the checks to pay for all this, Larry for starters, and the prospective sponsors.

Time will tell if AC 34 ends up being a sustainable economic equation. Right now it is an entertainment experiment for the purpose of making money (or at least breaking even) by one of the wealthiest people on the planet, nothing more, nothing less.

First class post!


+ 1

#67 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:06 PM

At least we have SR and SW to have good fun on the forum.

Both of them claim in chorus:
- 500 000 spectators of Pymouth ? nothing to do with ACEA ! coming from the city.
- The higher figures from Naples ? nothing to do with ACEA !, coming ex nihilo from the city too.

Now, have a look at the brochure, did Plymouth officials invented the pictures too ? did they invented the text ? is not that coming directly from ACEA ?
Facts is that ACEA sales reps don't learn , they sell the same crap to city officials who are happy to publish it to please their taxpayers.

Have a look at the brochure.
The first page is clearly written by Plymouth city official .
The second page is clearly coming from ACEA; clear cut and paste with all the BullShit: 500 000 visitors, 10 M revenue, "the eyes of the world be be focussed on Plymouth", ? "the spectacle of the year" Yes, nothing less !!!
We could read ACEAgles, it would not make any difference

ENJOY !
Posted Image
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#68 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:34 PM

But even if it were coming from ACEA, then so what would have been surprising in an of it?

We're talking event promoters here, it just is what they do, are even paid to do. Did you wake up just yesterday?

#69 EaglesPDX

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:35 PM

In terms of job creation, hardly worth mentioning that in Cascais this resulted in 50 volunteer positions, at €10/day plus lunch.


Actually closer to $1-3M in local business for port loading and unloading, fork lifts, cranes, trucks, operators, catering, housing. It's the $5M that AC34 would like to recover as that is their estimate of LOCAL costs for rigging and running the races. Great business for each port and that's just for the race logistics not counting the money spent by the spectators, likely about $1M per 100,000 people, that being low of $10 per spectator spent on food, drink, transport.

Those are the numbers you'll see from the Plymouth university students economics study.

Nice little economic boost.

Add to that the advertising value for the cities, very high priority for Plymouth and they did very well with promotion of their city. Sounds like Naples is looking for similar advertising and promotion value added to the income from the logistics.

Naples is very much like Auckland, hoping to use the America's Cup as the spur and focal point for long planned redevelopment of run down water front areas.

#70 ~Stingray~

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:38 PM

One of the Plymouth articles I've seen listed some figures that included the city's name being mentioned in over 1,750 different newspapers in AC related coverage. What would it cost to buy ads in all that material? Think about it.

#71 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 29 September 2011 - 11:50 PM

But even if it were coming from ACEA, then so what would have been surprising in an of it?

We're talking event promoters here, it just is what they do, are even paid to do. Did you wake up just yesterday?


Don't think you got the point of this conversation right from the beginning.:)

The problem is NOT who is delivering the output but who is at the source of it.

It proves the point of PeterHuston: ACEA overpromesses and underdelivers, in the case of Plymouth it was a ratio of 1 to 20, not too bad no ?

Some may think, " I don't care". Wrong.

A ratio, even of 1 to 2 is acceptable, but not at the present level. It just contributes to frustrate city official, media, taxpayers, teams, sponsors and give a bad image of sailing events in general.

#72 ~Stingray~

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:17 AM

So the premise is what, that nobody should host any sailing events?

Quite obviously the local boosters of these various venues would not agree to whatever the arrangements are, unless they agree those arrangements. It takes two to party.

Let's say in the extreme that ACEA are a bunch of liars screwing people screwing the locals, then again: So what??

#73 SW Sailor

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:30 AM




And you are presumably claiming that this Italian prediction, like those for Plymouth and Cascais are entirely the creation of the host city? That ACEAgles and his friends (you and SW) have had no input into the hype? So far you guys are running at about 10% of your imagination when it comes to attendance levels.

Yes, the quotes I've seen are all from Naples. Can you find ACEA ones?

Keep trying to lump my opinions in with whoever you like, in your silly attempts to suit whatever agenda it is you have going, lol, but: I've never said, anywhere, that Plymouth looked to have 100,000+ spectators.

"And you are presumably claiming.... blah blah blah." Even weaker than your usual lame attempts, although I will state "put me on ignore so I don't have to read your posts" is an all-time classic Posted Image.

The data comes from the cities, and despite PH's concerted efforts to prove otherwise with Plymouth, no other facts exist.

As in Plymouth, the perception of the event is of bigger interest to me - what the spectators, fans, teams, and organizers think of the event.

Sorry, rocky, you've struck out again - show up with some hard facts next time instead of flimsy speculation and pure conjecture.

Standing in for ACEAgles today?


Run short of facts to support your position rocky ?




#74 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:44 AM

So the premise is what, that nobody should host any sailing events?

Quite obviously the local boosters of these various venues would not agree to whatever the arrangements are, unless they agree those arrangements. It takes two to party.

Let's say in the extreme that ACEA are a bunch of liars screwing people screwing the locals, then again: So what??


You make exactly my point. IMO, that is what they think " we did not say it ourselves, so what ? "

This is a lawyer's point of view, no a sound, long term view.

#75 EaglesPDX

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:17 AM

Excellent promotion by Plymouth. Plymouth certainly got a great return and nice economic boost from the event.

Would make a good case for doing Plymouth again at time of big winds.

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[/quote]

#76 SW Sailor

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:25 AM

Plymouth certainly did an outstanding job of promoting a high level event which helped put Plymouth on the map.

My inbox was continually filled with promotional material - other venues should take notice.

#77 sunseeker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:39 AM

So the premise is what, that nobody should host any sailing events?

Quite obviously the local boosters of these various venues would not agree to whatever the arrangements are, unless they agree those arrangements. It takes two to party.

Let's say in the extreme that ACEA are a bunch of liars screwing people screwing the locals, then again: So what??


First, let me start by saying I am generally pro-Larry, pro-GGYC, pro-Oracle Racing. I say generally, because there are things that they could be doing better, or at least differently, with a bit more class and grace.

To answer your question: So what? So this: Every time ACEA says something that does not happen as they said it would, it further hurts their credibility. Worse, it hurts the credibility of the sport, both in the short and long run.

You seem hell bent on trying to prove that ACEA has had nothing to do with statements made by event promoters. And it is probably true that the locals are going to over-promote things a bit, which is their nature, if not their job.

I do think the ACWS does attract alot of attention for the host cities. That is all very good for the city. Portsmouth for sure got one hell of a deal. They were put in the map in a way they probably could not afford.

Another thing you should consider is that the people making decisions with sponsors money, ie the VP of marketing or some such title, has to justify the companies participation as a sponsor with a team or the event to his boss, if not even shareholders. ACEA has made numerous announcements about things that have just not happened, or been shades of grey somehow. Moreover, alot of people do not read every single letter of every single word in every single announcement like you seem to do, and then retain an instant memory of everything that was said and when it was said, as you seem so able to do. Most people deal in the headlines only.

Now comes the Naples announcement. On the surface when it was announced many said "oh Naples, twice, cool". Now, we aren't so sure about Naples. A press conference gets postponed. Why even have any announcement until something is rock solid. Why allow the creation of uncertainty to exist? If your job was to find and buy solid promotional opportunities for your employer, why would you risk your job buying into a sponsorship deal that had so many unknowns and inconsistencies? Sponsors typically like certainty. The ACWS circuit for 2011 is not even fully known today. How is that certain? How is that a low risk buy for a sponsor?

The point is this, AC 34 is going to be a great show, perhaps even spectacular. Larry Ellison can afford to wait it all out. He looks as if he has rank amateurs running things for him, saying things that are just not true, or even being tangentially associated with half-truths or untruths. Aren't you in some aspect of the computer business? Is the type of behavior that we see from ACEA the same sort of thing we see from Oracle Corp now? Maybe 20 years ago Larry had to talk a big story, but today, not hardly. So why is ACEA doing and saying things that do not match their patron's current actions and standards?

I just wish the best for Larry, for GGYC, for the Cup and the sport. That's the "so what" that you ask about. I happen to think it is a big "so what" if the sport is hurt because the guys running the biggest show in the game can't run it to the highest possible standard of professionalism.

#78 ~Stingray~

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:23 AM

Fair enough, and maybe there is blame to be put on ACAE's head for putting any faith into what I consider a fairly noxious Naples situation.

But again, Worth flat out admitted in the video interview that very few cities have expressed the desire that Naples has.

What would you do, run the whole thing in SF as the Portland Parrot would also have it? I don't think that is in the marching orders Worth has been given, and also think that is for some good reasons.

Things will work, even the very first two of probably twelve+ have been surprisingly good fun.

#79 pjfranks

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 09:49 AM

Fair enough, and maybe there is blame to be put on ACAE's head for putting any faith into what I consider a fairly noxious Naples situation.

But again, Worth flat out admitted in the video interview that very few cities have expressed the desire that Naples has.

What would you do, run the whole thing in SF as the Portland Parrot would also have it? I don't think that is in the marching orders Worth has been given, and also think that is for some good reasons.

Things will work, even the very first two of probably twelve+ have been surprisingly good fun.

ACEAgles?

#80 dogwatch

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 11:53 AM

Even dogwatch's 50K strikes me as high


Yes quite possibly. I was trying to establish the top end of plausibility and then see where that could lead in economic impact.

#81 Tony-F18

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:00 PM

How can you prove the 50.000 number? Did you stand at the gates with a clicker?
We are blaming ACEA for making up false spectator numbers and then we go on to make up numbers of our own without any scientific basis whatsoever? :unsure:

#82 EaglesPDX

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:09 PM


Fair enough, and maybe there is blame to be put on ACAE's head for putting any faith into what I consider a fairly noxious Naples situation.


But again, Worth flat out admitted in the video interview that very few cities have expressed the desire that Naples has.

What would you do, run the whole thing in SF as the Portland Parrot would also have it? I don't think that is in the marching orders Worth has been given, and also think that is for some good reasons.

Things will work, even the very first two of probably twelve+ have been surprisingly good fun.

ACEAgles?


I'd disagree somewhat with Stingray. I don't see any risk for AC34 in Naples. Everyone seems to think Naples is a good site. If Naples gets it together fine, if not easy enough to have the event somewhere else. Every town that has hosted the AC45 races has been enthusiastic and would be happy to have them back.

As for Worth admitting few $5M bidders for the AC45 races. As Worth noted, it's a goal he's been assigned by AC34 not one he created. The $5M figure is the logistical cost, what AC34 spends in a town to put the race on. They'll go with the high bidders. Plymouth at $500K(?) for example.

My personal view is they should be setting up big cities and exciting race spot and not worry about recovering money but then it's not my money so can't blame Ellison for trying to break even on it. He's giving us great racing so far and great build up for the Cup.

End of the day, AC45 races are a moveable feast so AC34 has the ability to stage them when and where they want. I'm sure we'll have as many as they think they need to promote the develop and promote the race. End of the day, best thing is just set up shop in San Franciscco and have some races there. Plymouth on the big stage. No place like home.

#83 dogwatch

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:21 PM

How can you prove the 50.000 number?


I just said precisely that I couldn't prove it. That I don't even believe it. As to the logic through which I arrived at that figure as a plausible top-end estimate, go find my post where I went through the argument in some detail.

#84 kiwi_jon

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 12:47 PM

Back to Naples.

Interesting that this article on americascup.com does not mention Naples at all.

New venues, new challenges

Posted on 28 September 2011

While the teams are preparing for the next stop on the America's Cup World Series in San Diego, beginning November 12, the more farsighted are also thinking about what lays in story for 2012.

AC World Series venues Venice, Italy and Newport, Rhode Island will offer very different sailing challenges compared to what the teams have faced to date, according to veteran tactician John Kostecki.

The inaugural America’s Cup World Series 2011-2012 heads to Venice from May 12-20, 2012, before the final leg in Newport, Rhode Island, from June 23 through July 1.

The iconic city of Venice, Italy will host Cup style racing for the first time, while Newport, which has played host to some of the most legendary America’s Cup battles in the competition’s 160 year history, will welcome the event back for the first time since 1983.

...


http://www.americascup.com/en/Latest/Blog/2011/9/New-venues-new-challenges/

#85 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 01:50 PM

Back to Naples.

Interesting that this article on americascup.com does not mention Naples at all.

New venues, new challenges

Posted on 28 September 2011

While the teams are preparing for the next stop on the America's Cup World Series in San Diego, beginning November 12, the more farsighted are also thinking about what lays in story for 2012.

AC World Series venues Venice, Italy and Newport, Rhode Island will offer very different sailing challenges compared to what the teams have faced to date, according to veteran tactician John Kostecki.

The inaugural America's Cup World Series 2011-2012 heads to Venice from May 12-20, 2012, before the final leg in Newport, Rhode Island, from June 23 through July 1.

The iconic city of Venice, Italy will host Cup style racing for the first time, while Newport, which has played host to some of the most legendary America's Cup battles in the competition's 160 year history, will welcome the event back for the first time since 1983.

...


http://www.americasc...new-challenges/


true and they didnt mention the new /existing challengers VC but the location should be a supporting reference

maybe the Italians will get their boat from evilsin and ggyc will unexcuse them

or some spin out of court settlement so VC will be in the race

the oracaklers will be scrambled any time now

#86 SW Sailor

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:39 PM

the oracaklers will be scrambled any time now


Scramble to what, celebrate an additional challenger ?

When is the big VC announcement coming ?

#87 sunseeker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:44 PM

Fair enough, and maybe there is blame to be put on ACAE's head for putting any faith into what I consider a fairly noxious Naples situation.

But again, Worth flat out admitted in the video interview that very few cities have expressed the desire that Naples has.

What would you do, run the whole thing in SF as the Portland Parrot would also have it? I don't think that is in the marching orders Worth has been given, and also think that is for some good reasons.

Things will work, even the very first two of probably twelve+ have been surprisingly good fun.


Yes, consider for a moment what is happening here, the ACWS is being used as a pawn by some locals to help get development money. So now we have a Larry Ellison owned entity being used to help generate money for a political purpose. There are just too many moving parts in that equation. It is by no means a clean and simple deal. If the money doesn't happen for the redevelopment, then Naples doesn't happen, and alot of time has been wasted. Worse, ACEA will have been played for the chump in the deal. That's the best ACEA can do for Larry Ellison? Letting him be the chump in someone else's deal.

And let's be clear: Worth sold the idea of how to create the financial jackpot for the America's Cup. Coutts went and hired Worth et al to figure out how to make this AC into some sort of professional league, with Larry as the backer. So, ultimately it is Worth who came up with the plan to get money from venues and TV rights. He wrote his own agenda, and Coutts got Larry to fund it. Now, Worth et al have to deliver.

But to answer your question: would I have all of the events in San Francisco? No. But what I would have done is create a model that was not so TV expense heavy, particularly upfront. The fundamental premise here is that the masses will flock to their tv, or whatever video screen, to watch the America's Cup because of where the cameras are placed, and because of the graphics that are used. Good that Larry has the money to make this bet. He might have done better if the business model was one of at least securing the venues that are attractive to the sponsors first, and that means several things. A place like Portsmouth is probably not high on the list for companies to do hospitality events. Hong Kong, Dubai, Sydney, Miami, even Manhattan on the Hudson would be VIP friend venues.

It might be worthwhile for you, and several others here, to take stock of your obsession with the Cup, look in the mirror and ask what percentage of the total population in the US, for starters, and then the world, are even 10% as interested in the Cup as you are. You are on the bleeding edge of being a fan, the root of the word fanatical.

Try looking at all this for a moment from the perspective of the person in the XYZ company who has to authorize the expenditure of time, money and corporate reputation against sailing in the first place, and then the America's Cup, and all the uncertainty that goes with it. See if you don't feel a bit different then about the actions of ACEA.

I just wonder what Larry's reaction is when he asks Russell this: "Hey, where are we racing the the AC 45's after San Diego? I've got a couple of friends I want to bring along. What, you mean Naples isn't certain yet, and we don't have anything lined up between San Diego and Naples, and now you are saying the press conference for Naples has been delayed a month? I'm paying all this money for six months for people to do exactly what between events?"

Do you really think that conversation is surprisingly good fun for anyone?

#88 Xlot

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 02:44 PM

Fair enough, and maybe there is blame to be put on ACAE's head for putting any faith into what I consider a fairly noxious Naples situation.

But again, Worth flat out admitted in the video interview that very few cities have expressed the desire that Naples has.


Right - any way you look at it, this does point to a great deal of desperation on the part of RW & Co.

#89 ~Stingray~

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:02 PM


Fair enough, and maybe there is blame to be put on ACAE's head for putting any faith into what I consider a fairly noxious Naples situation.

But again, Worth flat out admitted in the video interview that very few cities have expressed the desire that Naples has.


Right - any way you look at it, this does point to a great deal of desperation on the part of RW & Co.

I think Naples makes a lot of sense for the ACWS, including for it being relatively close to Venice, which Naples would precede in 2012 and succeed in 2013.

What I meant by 'noxious' (aside from the Bagnoli cleanup angle to it) is that there looks to be real uncertainty on if they can deliver on time - requiring as it does new permitting, construction, major political and financial agreements, etc. Maybe 'dicey' is a better word.

Am glad to see that, as k_j pointed out, the recent venues article does not mention Naples. It suggests they are keenly aware it is not yet set in concrete. In Naples they are also aware they need to get it solidified asap, before an alternative is selected.

If you think about the possibility of sailing from San Diego to the ME, they may as well do it across the Pacific; which opens the possibility of a Feb stop in Asia on the way to a March ME venue, still with time enough to reach Venice by May.

#90 sunseeker

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 03:08 PM



Fair enough, and maybe there is blame to be put on ACAE's head for putting any faith into what I consider a fairly noxious Naples situation.

But again, Worth flat out admitted in the video interview that very few cities have expressed the desire that Naples has.


Right - any way you look at it, this does point to a great deal of desperation on the part of RW & Co.

I think Naples makes a lot of sense for the ACWS, including for it being relatively close to Venice, which Naples would precede in 2012 and succeed in 2013.

What I meant by 'noxious' (aside from the Bagnoli cleanup angle to it) is that there looks to be real uncertainty on if they can deliver on time - requiring as it does new permitting, construction, major political and financial agreements, etc. Maybe 'dicey' is a better word.

Am glad to see that, as k_j pointed out, the recent venues article does not mention Naples. It suggests they are keenly aware it is not yet set in concrete. In Naples they are also aware they need to get it solidified asap, before an alternative is selected.

If you think about the possibility of sailing from San Diego to the ME, they may as well do it across the Pacific; which opens the possibility of a Feb stop in Asia on the way to a March ME venue, still with time enough to reach Venice by May.


All true about the "possibilties" you suggest, but, the vast majority of sponsors do not sign up for "possibilities". They want certainty, and the dates that you propose, while working out fine logistically from a shipping point of view, do almost nothing for an executive that has to make plans well into the future. Even six months in the world of corporate marketing calendars is right around the corner.

How does this uncertainty of dates help the teams acquire sponsors now? And with all this uncertainty about the current schedule for ACWS events, how can a sponsor realistically rely on what ACEA says about the future?

#91 dogwatch

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:11 PM

not yet set in concrete.


Isn't that what happens in Naples when you decline an offer you can't refuse?

Sorry, dogwatch is indulging in stereotyping. Bad dog.

#92 ~Stingray~

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:34 PM

^ I see a new Napoli line of Puma shoes in our future :)

#93 Xlot

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:35 PM

Sorry, dogwatch is indulging in stereotyping. Bad dog.


Worse, you're mixing things up: that's Sicily

#94 ~Stingray~

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 04:47 PM

Anything interesting in this one?



Servizio del Tgr Campania con intervista a Riccardo Marone, presidente di Bagnolifutura, in merito all'America's Cup

#95 dogwatch

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 06:12 PM


Sorry, dogwatch is indulging in stereotyping. Bad dog.


Worse, you're mixing things up: that's Sicily


What about the Camorra?

#96 pjfranks

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 07:10 PM

Plymouth certainly did an outstanding job of promoting a high level event which helped put Plymouth on the map.

My inbox was continually filled with promotional material - other venues should take notice.


ACWS "helped put Plymouth on the map?" Really? And there I was thinking that Sir Francis Drake and the Pilgrim Fathers put Plymouth on the map but maybe you and the other PR wonks from ACEA (ACEAgles and SR) don't know anything about that? As for your inbox being filled with promotional material? Kiwis selling masts?

#97 ~Stingray~

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:02 PM

another newsclip, uploaded today



#98 Tony-F18

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 08:53 PM

The guy on the left looks like a mobster! :ph34r:

#99 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 30 September 2011 - 10:58 PM

Same Gordian knot.

Teams need sponsors, sponsors need venues, venues need teams.

In fact ACEA had to begin to find venues, propose hard dates, it would have helped teams to find sponsors, made a bigger event, helped other teams to get bigger sponsors. Good for everybody.

I said it so often, ACEA though that their new concept of sailing would attract venues, that they would get 5 M. They asked too much at the beginning.
An overevaluation in the business plan that was not corrected soon enough, or just blinded managers.

Instead they created hyperhype, delirious number of spectators. I am pretty sure that they received lots of promises from Naples that they willing to believe, but did they check the serious of the offer ? Looks like they behave like pressure selling business reps.

Strange approach, more a CowBoy than serious, sounded, long term view.

#100 ~Stingray~

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Posted 01 October 2011 - 04:29 PM

This gtran suggests an announcement of some kind on Monday.
http://translate.goo...4927&sez=NAPOLI




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