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Women's Skiff: let the battle start


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#1 17mika

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 01:39 PM

Here's the doc
http://www.sailing.o...estforProposal-[11322].pdf

Main indications are:
110-130 kg crew (heavy side for girls?)
FRP construction (no carbon hull?)
sloop rig with assy
twin trapeze
5-25 knots wind range
athletically challenging to the elite sailors of the world
have visual appeal for spectators, media and sailors
be equipment that avoids unnecessary or excessive costs

Trials to be held in ealy spring in southern europe, selection in autumn.

#2 mustang__1

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:26 PM

sounds like the 29erXX fits the bill.... if you get a new boat without the regular 29er rig, where;'s that put the price of the boat, about 11k vs 14k? Assuming they are about 10k as it is (of course i dont think Melges has released their pricing yet... but they did increase the price of the already expensive sails....). already have world-wide distribution of hulls and its not that hard to ship the rig around. probably more established as the XX than any of the RS whatevers? its definitely a pretty fun boat to sail.

#3 17mika

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 02:59 PM

sounds like the 29erXX fits the bill.... if you get a new boat without the regular 29er rig, where;'s that put the price of the boat, about 11k vs 14k? Assuming they are about 10k as it is (of course i dont think Melges has released their pricing yet... but they did increase the price of the already expensive sails....). already have world-wide distribution of hulls and its not that hard to ship the rig around. probably more established as the XX than any of the RS whatevers? its definitely a pretty fun boat to sail.


Ovington sells 29erxx for 9,5k pounds. Nautivela told me last year something like 11,5k€.


As far as the selection is concerned...
in Italy we say: "a pensar male si fa peccato, ma spesso ci si azzecca", which means:"He, who is too suspicious committs a sin, but often gets it right". Am I too suspicious if I think that the FRP construction rule an explicit indication for the XX (maybe come from the xx people), since both Rebel and Rs900 hulls are going to be carbon(id I'm not mistaken)?

Not that I don't want it, since I own an XX, but I'd still love some more radical design in the Olypics

#4 JimC

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 07:24 PM

FRP construction (no carbon hull?)

In my book epoxy/carbon is fibre reinforced plastic construction, but maybe they mean something different.
At the moment I haven't come across what I regard as a decent candidate. Everyone I know who's sailed the 29erXX doesn't rate it at all (unlike the 29er which almost everyone loves) whilst to my mind the RS boat is too big and heavy.

#5 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 08:43 PM

Everyone I know who's sailed the 29erXX doesn't rate it at all (unlike the 29er which almost everyone loves) whilst to my mind the RS boat is too big and heavy.

Everyone I know who has tried the XX has enjoyed it. Note: all with total team weight at 305lbs and less.

I have sailed the XX quite a bit and I like it. For the team size ISAF claims to be expecting, the XX will be an extreme challenge in 25kts. Which, is great. Women want that type of athletic challenge represented in our sport at the Olympic level.

#6 Lost in Translation

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 09:50 PM

The mixed catamaran was released today as well. The requests look very much the same with one difference. The mast is supposed to be two part for the cat but not for the skiff. I wonder why? Neither type of high performance boat has a two part mast commonly today.

#7 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 23 September 2011 - 11:45 PM

The mixed catamaran was released today as well. The requests look very much the same with one difference. The mast is supposed to be two part for the cat but not for the skiff. I wonder why? Neither type of high performance boat has a two part mast commonly today.


FYI: The XX mast is a two-part mast

#8 JimC

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 02:34 AM

Neither type of high performance boat has a two part mast commonly today.

A fair number of skiff masts are two piece. Its usual to glue them together though.

#9 blackensign

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 10:23 AM

110-130 kg crew (heavy side for girls?)


REALLY??? How many women do you know who weigh less than 50kg? Two lightweights will make 110. A 60 and a 70kg will reach the upper limit and I wouldn't call either heavy.
Shit, I know Opti girls who weigh over 50! and they aren't big.


Oh and the Weta has a two-piece mast and will fit in a 20ft container... though I do hope for something with a trapeze.

#10 17mika

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Posted 24 September 2011 - 08:50 PM

110-130 kg crew (heavy side for girls?)


REALLY??? How many women do you know who weigh less than 50kg? Two lightweights will make 110. A 60 and a 70kg will reach the upper limit and I wouldn't call either heavy.


I'd say mean weight is more 55kg than 60kg, but that's just a presonal feeling.

#11 BalticBandit

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Posted 25 September 2011 - 01:53 AM

Neither type of high performance boat has a two part mast commonly today.

A fair number of skiff masts are two piece. Its usual to glue them together though.

The diff from the cats is that skiff masts can fill with water and its still possible to right the boat

#12 17mika

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 11:27 AM

Update: http://www.sailing.org/37604.php

ISAF is pleased to announce the venue and date for the equipment evaluation for the 2016 Olympic Women's Skiff and Mixed Multihull.
The evaluation will be held from 17 to 25 March 2012 at Prince Felipe High Performance Sailing Centre, Santander, Spain.

Participants will be asked to provide two complete boats at the venue. Preliminary documentation along with Notice of Intent to participate and application fee shall be supplied to ISAF by 20 January 2012.

Guidelines on the Proposals Process can be found here
+ Women's Two Person Skiff
+ Mixed Multihull

Response from ISAF with an invitation to participate will be sent to the manufacturer/supplier teams as early as possible and no later than 20 February 2012.

#13 skiffboy

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 12:08 PM

Hey, thats good news! I had heard there was a suggestion that the trials be scrapped and the 29erXX be selected without opposition. That, I believe, would be a mistake.

#14 cantp1

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:24 PM


FRP construction (no carbon hull?)

In my book epoxy/carbon is fibre reinforced plastic construction, but maybe they mean something different.
At the moment I haven't come across what I regard as a decent candidate. Everyone I know who's sailed the 29erXX doesn't rate it at all (unlike the 29er which almost everyone loves) whilst to my mind the RS boat is too big and heavy.


+1
I would actually call the 29er GRP, personally..


In terms of the selection, I believe it will be a great regatta. And since only 1 boat can win, some good candidates will be left by the wayside...
My $0.02 (in no particular order):
- 49erXX looks great. But how big will the girls have to be? Hopefully not too big... ;)
- Rebel also looks ok. Heard that it's impossible for girls to sail in over 15 knots. People also said that about the 49er though...
- RS900 also looks pretty good. RS needs to hire Bethwaite to re-do a few items to make it less like an RS and more like a 9er!
- Aura also looks good. It has quite a clean finish - pretty slick overall
- 29erXX - well enough has been said about her. Luckily she has strength in numbers!

My personal favourite being the 49erXX. Let's see how she goes...!

#15 Shu

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:35 AM

What is a 49erXX?

#16 trenace

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:49 AM

http://www.seabreeze...ee_5395227.aspx

#17 17mika

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:13 AM

[In terms of the selection, I believe it will be a great regatta. And since only 1 boat can win, some good candidates will be left by the wayside...
My $0.02 (in no particular order):
- 49erXX looks great. But how big will the girls have to be? Hopefully not too big... ;)
- Rebel also looks ok. Heard that it's impossible for girls to sail in over 15 knots. People also said that about the 49er though...
- RS900 also looks pretty good. RS needs to hire Bethwaite to re-do a few items to make it less like an RS and more like a 9er!
- Aura also looks good. It has quite a clean finish - pretty slick overall
- 29erXX - well enough has been said about her. Luckily she has strength in numbers!

My personal favourite being the 49erXX. Let's see how she goes...!


My personal favourite is the RS900 AtM, even if I own another horse in the race (29erXX). My take is that the 49er hull is just a litle too big for girls. I'm 63 kg, and I wouldn't really want to right a 49er in a big breeze after a capsize, even with a small rig.

#18 BalticBandit

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:02 PM


[In terms of the selection, I believe it will be a great regatta. And since only 1 boat can win, some good candidates will be left by the wayside...
My $0.02 (in no particular order):
- 49erXX looks great. But how big will the girls have to be? Hopefully not too big... ;)
- Rebel also looks ok. Heard that it's impossible for girls to sail in over 15 knots. People also said that about the 49er though...
- RS900 also looks pretty good. RS needs to hire Bethwaite to re-do a few items to make it less like an RS and more like a 9er!
- Aura also looks good. It has quite a clean finish - pretty slick overall
- 29erXX - well enough has been said about her. Luckily she has strength in numbers!

My personal favourite being the 49erXX. Let's see how she goes...!


My personal favourite is the RS900 AtM, even if I own another horse in the race (29erXX). My take is that the 49er hull is just a litle too big for girls. I'm 63 kg, and I wouldn't really want to right a 49er in a big breeze after a capsize, even with a small rig.

Since you right the boat "to weather" using the rig to pick her up, its not really that hard.

#19 Shu

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:08 AM

Thanks Trenace. Makes sense.

#20 Phil S

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:53 AM

It would seem a much simpler and cheaper option to get all the women in the world who actually sail seriously on boats remotely like the "skiffs" proposed, to vote on their favourite boat.
It should not be too hard to organise as there are probably only a couple of hundred of them anyway.

#21 17mika

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 11:07 AM

Since you right the boat "to weather" using the rig to pick her up, its not really that hard.


You're right, but I was more thinking of the process of going from 180° to 90°.

It's also a thing I love in the 29er (and XX), as compared to my old laser4000; but then, of course, I'm just a pure "weekend warrior", and ease of righting plays 4me a much more important role than for people who can decently sail the boat :D

#22 trenace

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:10 PM

It would seem a much simpler and cheaper option to get all the women in the world who actually sail seriously on boats remotely like the "skiffs" proposed, to vote on their favourite boat.
It should not be too hard to organise as there are probably only a couple of hundred of them anyway.

But how many have had a chance to sail, for example, the 49erXX or the RS900?




#23 FishAintBiting

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:36 PM


It would seem a much simpler and cheaper option to get all the women in the world who actually sail seriously on boats remotely like the "skiffs" proposed, to vote on their favourite boat.
It should not be too hard to organise as there are probably only a couple of hundred of them anyway.

But how many have had a chance to sail, for example, the 49erXX or the RS900?


Look, unfortunately I think we are all dreaming here.

What is most likely going to happen is that some FABWB (Fat-Arse Blazer-Wearing Boffins) will choose the boat that most suits their own countries' aspirations.

I have zero faith in the ISAF or the Olympic movement doing anything for the athletes or the sport.

For the rest of us, ... well ... happy sailing.

Fish

#24 BalticBandit

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:46 PM


Since you right the boat "to weather" using the rig to pick her up, its not really that hard.


You're right, but I was more thinking of the process of going from 180° to 90°.

It's also a thing I love in the 29er (and XX), as compared to my old laser4000; but then, of course, I'm just a pure "weekend warrior", and ease of righting plays 4me a much more important role than for people who can decently sail the boat :D


Well the wings let youstart with all your weight pretty far out and walk that in progressively as she comes up. the slowest part woud e from about 125 deg down to 90, but at that point the solid wing actually helps you by providing windage....I remember big air recoveries where I had to keep the mast tip in the water with my weight while the kite was gathered in.

#25 cantp1

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:05 PM



[In terms of the selection, I believe it will be a great regatta. And since only 1 boat can win, some good candidates will be left by the wayside...
My $0.02 (in no particular order):
- 49erXX looks great. But how big will the girls have to be? Hopefully not too big... ;)
- Rebel also looks ok. Heard that it's impossible for girls to sail in over 15 knots. People also said that about the 49er though...
- RS900 also looks pretty good. RS needs to hire Bethwaite to re-do a few items to make it less like an RS and more like a 9er!
- Aura also looks good. It has quite a clean finish - pretty slick overall
- 29erXX - well enough has been said about her. Luckily she has strength in numbers!

My personal favourite being the 49erXX. Let's see how she goes...!


My personal favourite is the RS900 AtM, even if I own another horse in the race (29erXX). My take is that the 49er hull is just a litle too big for girls. I'm 63 kg, and I wouldn't really want to right a 49er in a big breeze after a capsize, even with a small rig.

Since you right the boat "to weather" using the rig to pick her up, its not really that hard.


+1
The real issue for the girls is getting the boat up to leeward in 10 to 15 kts. Oh and the leap of faith over the wing on a weather capsize recovery - imagine the bruises they'd get!

#26 Windward Mark

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:33 PM



Since you right the boat "to weather" using the rig to pick her up, its not really that hard.


You're right, but I was more thinking of the process of going from 180° to 90°.

It's also a thing I love in the 29er (and XX), as compared to my old laser4000; but then, of course, I'm just a pure "weekend warrior", and ease of righting plays 4me a much more important role than for people who can decently sail the boat :D


Well the wings let youstart with all your weight pretty far out and walk that in progressively as she comes up. the slowest part woud e from about 125 deg down to 90, but at that point the solid wing actually helps you by providing windage....I remember big air recoveries where I had to keep the mast tip in the water with my weight while the kite was gathered in.


Sounds good in theory. Fact is that the girls testing the boat in NZ could not right the boat after a capsize.

#27 Phil S

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 09:36 PM


It would seem a much simpler and cheaper option to get all the women in the world who actually sail seriously on boats remotely like the "skiffs" proposed, to vote on their favourite boat.
It should not be too hard to organise as there are probably only a couple of hundred of them anyway.

But how many have had a chance to sail, for example, the 49erXX or the RS900?

The real question is how many really want to sail any type of skiff, there does not seem to be any female interest in this tread?
Are there enough to make this event representative?

#28 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 10:52 PM



It would seem a much simpler and cheaper option to get all the women in the world who actually sail seriously on boats remotely like the "skiffs" proposed, to vote on their favourite boat.
It should not be too hard to organise as there are probably only a couple of hundred of them anyway.

But how many have had a chance to sail, for example, the 49erXX or the RS900?

The real question is how many really want to sail any type of skiff, there does not seem to be any female interest in this tread?
Are there enough to make this event representative?


Maybe the women who will sails skiffs don't read sailing anarchy

#29 BalticBandit

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 02:05 AM




Since you right the boat "to weather" using the rig to pick her up, its not really that hard.


You're right, but I was more thinking of the process of going from 180° to 90°.

It's also a thing I love in the 29er (and XX), as compared to my old laser4000; but then, of course, I'm just a pure "weekend warrior", and ease of righting plays 4me a much more important role than for people who can decently sail the boat :D


Well the wings let youstart with all your weight pretty far out and walk that in progressively as she comes up. the slowest part woud e from about 125 deg down to 90, but at that point the solid wing actually helps you by providing windage....I remember big air recoveries where I had to keep the mast tip in the water with my weight while the kite was gathered in.


Sounds good in theory. Fact is that the girls testing the boat in NZ could not right the boat after a capsize.

Yeah but what do Kiwis know about skiffs??? Ok I'll get my hat :-)

#30 Reht

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 05:08 AM

The 49er hull is just a little too big for women to handle easily (at least, most averaged-sized women, which is what ISAF is looking for). The 29er hull on the other hand, might be a touch on the small side (it certainly feels a lot smaller to sail than the 49er). I think the non-9er designs that have been developped with the sole intention of becoming the women's skiff stand a much better chance of winning on performance. Though we all know that performance is not really what these trials are judged on (or our olympics would be very different), politics and back-end support will matter a lot more. On that count, the 9ers definitely have the advantage of a world-proven distribution network, and in the case of the 29erXX, a small fleet to back the boat up.

It would be nice to see a more prominent public presence of the women who would be sailing the boats, at the moment there seem to be very few (though that can always change)...

#31 Windward Mark

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 08:20 AM

Existing hulls aside, I would have modified the deck layout of the 59er and turned that into the girls 2 hander, larger cockpit, slightly more volume. Tooling still about. I just think it would have made a much better twin trap boat.

The original 29erxx rig was the 59er rig, before the square top.

#32 BalticBandit

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 03:40 PM

The 49er hull is just a little too big for women to handle easily (at least, most averaged-sized women, which is what ISAF is looking for).

But isn't that kinda the criteria? Olympics should not be about something that can be "easily handled"..., I mean how many women can pick up 237.5kg - hell I'm pretty sure most men cannot.

#33 Reht

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:51 PM


The 49er hull is just a little too big for women to handle easily (at least, most averaged-sized women, which is what ISAF is looking for).

But isn't that kinda the criteria? Olympics should not be about something that can be "easily handled"..., I mean how many women can pick up 237.5kg - hell I'm pretty sure most men cannot.


My train of thought was more in the line that the hull is huge, even the guys can struggle to get it around the course (though the rig has a lot to blame on that front). It should be easier for the girls to handle a smaller hull, and a smaller hull would better match a smaller rig, heck it might even be faster...

#34 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 09:09 PM

It would be nice to see a more prominent public presence of the women who would be sailing the boats, at the moment there seem to be very few (though that can always change)...


I think you have to consider where "skiffs" (in general) have been around a long time. In AUS girls sail skiffs (there are several competitors to the 29er there). However, there is no boat for them to transition to as they get older. If you are considering the US, the 29er has not been around that long. Skiffs in the US are slowly growing in popularity. But there is now a generation of young girls who are skilled 29er sailors and they are ready to transition to the Olympic boat (whatever that is).

Bottom line, there are women who want to sail skiffs. I think you just don't know them yet because they are mostly young girls.

#35 mustang__1

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 11:48 PM

Or maybe he just doesn't know any girls?...

#36 Reht

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:54 AM


It would be nice to see a more prominent public presence of the women who would be sailing the boats, at the moment there seem to be very few (though that can always change)...


I think you have to consider where "skiffs" (in general) have been around a long time. In AUS girls sail skiffs (there are several competitors to the 29er there). However, there is no boat for them to transition to as they get older. If you are considering the US, the 29er has not been around that long. Skiffs in the US are slowly growing in popularity. But there is now a generation of young girls who are skilled 29er sailors and they are ready to transition to the Olympic boat (whatever that is).

Bottom line, there are women who want to sail skiffs. I think you just don't know them yet because they are mostly young girls.


I have no doubt there are lots of girls sailing skiffs, heck I even raced against a bunch of them when I was in the 29er. My comment was more that it seems to be largely a male-centric population that is making the decisions. While gender shouldn't matter when you're looking at the business aspects of which boat to choose (distribution network, support, etc.), I would like to see more girls talking about the boats they might be sailing. Hey, maybe even have the selection committee be a majority (if not entirely) female, bonus points for them all being in the target market.

Just seems odd that a bunch of guys in a boardroom (some of whom may not even have much or any high-performance/skiff experience) are making the decisions for the skiff sailing girls. Lets have the girls make the selection, but that won't happen unless they start talking about the boats and showing a general interest (which is what I see as lacking at the moment).

#37 Windward Mark

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:43 AM

Build it and they will come......

It's been well pointed out, there is no pathway for female skiff sailors to take. Hopefully this new class whatever it may be will give the girls coming out of 29ers or young ladies in Cherubs somthing competitive to move into, aside from a 470, which lets face it, is not exactly barrels of fun.

The challenge will be making a class where the lasses who may not make an olympic team can still get out on a Saturday and Sunday and race their boats together.

#38 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:42 PM

Just seems odd that a bunch of guys in a boardroom (some of whom may not even have much or any high-performance/skiff experience) are making the decisions for the skiff sailing girls. Lets have the girls make the selection, but that won't happen unless they start talking about the boats and showing a general interest (which is what I see as lacking at the moment).


You just described the ISAF process to a "T". There is a "protocol" for selecting the sailors who will actually sail the boats being proposed at the equipment selection trials. ISAF will be the entity who actually determines which sailors will be allowed to attend. There is no nationality requirement. The sailors will have to sail both the women's skiff equipment and the multihull... I think that right there is ridiculous.

But your comment about the girls not showing general interest in flawed. First off, ISAF decision maker's probably would not be effected by that "discussion" and if they were they would probably never admit it. Second of all, most of the boats being submitted are not actually available to sail. Third, the 29erXX, which has been available for a few years, has a growing presence and the people who sail it are talking about it. The women who do sail skiffs are talking to each other heaps about the other designs we see online and in press releases.

I can tell you that female skiff sailors understand the possibility exists that certain body types (i.e. smaller / "normal" sized girls) will be excluded from skiff sailing based on ISAF selecting a boat that requires a higher crew weight.

#39 Reht

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 04:47 AM


Just seems odd that a bunch of guys in a boardroom (some of whom may not even have much or any high-performance/skiff experience) are making the decisions for the skiff sailing girls. Lets have the girls make the selection, but that won't happen unless they start talking about the boats and showing a general interest (which is what I see as lacking at the moment).


You just described the ISAF process to a "T". There is a "protocol" for selecting the sailors who will actually sail the boats being proposed at the equipment selection trials. ISAF will be the entity who actually determines which sailors will be allowed to attend. There is no nationality requirement. The sailors will have to sail both the women's skiff equipment and the multihull... I think that right there is ridiculous.

But your comment about the girls not showing general interest in flawed. First off, ISAF decision maker's probably would not be effected by that "discussion" and if they were they would probably never admit it. Second of all, most of the boats being submitted are not actually available to sail. Third, the 29erXX, which has been available for a few years, has a growing presence and the people who sail it are talking about it. The women who do sail skiffs are talking to each other heaps about the other designs we see online and in press releases.

I can tell you that female skiff sailors understand the possibility exists that certain body types (i.e. smaller / "normal" sized girls) will be excluded from skiff sailing based on ISAF selecting a boat that requires a higher crew weight.


I can agree with you that the same sailors shouldn't (in general) be testing and supplying feedback on both skiffs and multis (completely different animals). ISAF's decision making process is flawed in most cases, but that doesn't mean that it couldn't change, I'm just pointing out what I'd like to see happen, not what's likely to happen (despite how I might have phrased it).

The interest exists I have no doubt, I've seen the enthusiasm the girls who do sail the boats have for the sport. But when I come to sailing anarchy, or I look at the news coming out of other sources, there is significantly less about these girls and this variety of sailing compared to other groups/classes. Most of the boats being unavailable to the public is a shame, but understandable that a manufacturer does not want to invest in a production line when it's likely that a number of the classes will flounder if not selected. I'm sure there's way more out there than I've seen in terms of potential designs, and I'm certain that the girls are discussing it among themselves. Unfortunately as you mentioned, ISAF is unlikely to take into consideration what a committee/group of sailors would have to say, but if the discussion is opened up (at least in part) to the public, maybe we'd see some influence (not directly, but possibly just through public opinion), as unlikely as it seems, I think the girls who are going to end up in the boats should be trying to make as much noise about it as possible...

As for weight, that's the name of the game in sailing, I know what it feels like having raced a 29er at ~340lbs combined weight (although I guess it's a little different if you're too small as opposed to too big). I await the day when we see boats where crews of 230lbs and crews of 380lbs can race on even terms in a one-design fleet.

#40 trenace

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:02 AM

. I await the day when we see boats where crews of 230lbs and crews of 380lbs can race on even terms in a one-design fleet.

How can this ever happen with lightweight boats?

#41 Gouvernail

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:05 AM

I guess the Olympic Committee has recognized the fact more women sail skiffs in competition than play softball. No wonder one is replacing the other in their big international sporting event.

#42 Tcatman

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 05:59 PM


Just seems odd that a bunch of guys in a boardroom (some of whom may not even have much or any high-performance/skiff experience) are making the decisions for the skiff sailing girls. Lets have the girls make the selection, but that won't happen unless they start talking about the boats and showing a general interest (which is what I see as lacking at the moment).


You just described the ISAF process to a "T". There is a "protocol" for selecting the sailors who will actually sail the boats being proposed at the equipment selection trials. ISAF will be the entity who actually determines which sailors will be allowed to attend. There is no nationality requirement. The sailors will have to sail both the women's skiff equipment and the multihull... I think that right there is ridiculous.

But your comment about the girls not showing general interest in flawed. First off, ISAF decision maker's probably would not be effected by that "discussion" and if they were they would probably never admit it. Second of all, most of the boats being submitted are not actually available to sail. Third, the 29erXX, which has been available for a few years, has a growing presence and the people who sail it are talking about it. The women who do sail skiffs are talking to each other heaps about the other designs we see online and in press releases.

I can tell you that female skiff sailors understand the possibility exists that certain body types (i.e. smaller / "normal" sized girls) will be excluded from skiff sailing based on ISAF selecting a boat that requires a higher crew weight.


Why do you think that it is ridiculous?....
Your assumption is that only sailors in the skiff pipeline are qualified to evaluate skiffs.... Likewise... only sailors in the cat pipeline are similarly qualified to pick a mixed multihull.

The reality is that there are very few woman who race skiffs or cats at the international level... Fact of life is... the target audience is probably the international 470 teams who could make the switch to a skiff or cat pretty quickly at the international olympic level.

The Extreme 40's and the AC45's cats have proven that sailors are sailors and they figure out the new ride pretty quickly..... The current Aussi A class NAs are showing how Olympic laser sailors, who jump into A cats and are quickly competitive with the AC45 guys and the top of the A class fleet.

I think that choosing a test pilot who is a great sailor AND who can translate the experience, strengths and weaknesses into words for the ISAF are the only essential qualifications ... Having the sailors sail all the boats will go along way to eliminating the notion that a particular sailor has a particular bias that serves their interest.

re weight ranges... that is a political question which balances a countries vested interest (my star weighs XX) with ISAF's goal of expanding participation to other countries. What's good for the sport and what is good for Olympic sailing and what is good for Olympic sailors can be argued endlessly. At the end of the day.. pick one and move on... IMO... changing up the boat mix every 8 years would keep the competition a bit more wide open...(and encourage more countries to play)

Looking forward to the list of the test pilots and boats on the beach!

#43 Foredeck Shuffle

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Posted 06 January 2012 - 06:31 PM

Ovington Boats - Dawn of the Aura
The Daily Sail - Introducing the Aura

#44 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 12:32 AM



Just seems odd that a bunch of guys in a boardroom (some of whom may not even have much or any high-performance/skiff experience) are making the decisions for the skiff sailing girls. Lets have the girls make the selection, but that won't happen unless they start talking about the boats and showing a general interest (which is what I see as lacking at the moment).


You just described the ISAF process to a "T". There is a "protocol" for selecting the sailors who will actually sail the boats being proposed at the equipment selection trials. ISAF will be the entity who actually determines which sailors will be allowed to attend. There is no nationality requirement. The sailors will have to sail both the women's skiff equipment and the multihull... I think that right there is ridiculous.

But your comment about the girls not showing general interest in flawed. First off, ISAF decision maker's probably would not be effected by that "discussion" and if they were they would probably never admit it. Second of all, most of the boats being submitted are not actually available to sail. Third, the 29erXX, which has been available for a few years, has a growing presence and the people who sail it are talking about it. The women who do sail skiffs are talking to each other heaps about the other designs we see online and in press releases.

I can tell you that female skiff sailors understand the possibility exists that certain body types (i.e. smaller / "normal" sized girls) will be excluded from skiff sailing based on ISAF selecting a boat that requires a higher crew weight.


Why do you think that it is ridiculous?....
Your assumption is that only sailors in the skiff pipeline are qualified to evaluate skiffs.... Likewise... only sailors in the cat pipeline are similarly qualified to pick a mixed multihull.

The reality is that there are very few woman who race skiffs or cats at the international level... Fact of life is... the target audience is probably the international 470 teams who could make the switch to a skiff or cat pretty quickly at the international olympic level.

The Extreme 40's and the AC45's cats have proven that sailors are sailors and they figure out the new ride pretty quickly..... The current Aussi A class NAs are showing how Olympic laser sailors, who jump into A cats and are quickly competitive with the AC45 guys and the top of the A class fleet.

I think that choosing a test pilot who is a great sailor AND who can translate the experience, strengths and weaknesses into words for the ISAF are the only essential qualifications ... Having the sailors sail all the boats will go along way to eliminating the notion that a particular sailor has a particular bias that serves their interest.

re weight ranges... that is a political question which balances a countries vested interest (my star weighs XX) with ISAF's goal of expanding participation to other countries. What's good for the sport and what is good for Olympic sailing and what is good for Olympic sailors can be argued endlessly. At the end of the day.. pick one and move on... IMO... changing up the boat mix every 8 years would keep the competition a bit more wide open...(and encourage more countries to play)

Looking forward to the list of the test pilots and boats on the beach!


I think it is ridiculous to test a women's boat with coed sailors. I also think it does a disservice to both disciplines to test the boats with sailors who are not highly skilled in sailing each type of boat.

#45 GybeSet®

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 01:09 PM

sail_like_ a_girl is correct

each discipline has its own gurus

for example even multi champ Bundock (14 catamaran World titles, two Olympic Silver medals and member of Oracle's America's Cup multihull Syndicate) is fairly quick to admit that his 49er year was 'challenging' in the least, not his cup of tea

#46 Tcatman

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 01:57 PM

sail_like_ a_girl is correct

each discipline has its own gurus

for example even multi champ Bundock (14 catamaran World titles, two Olympic Silver medals and member of Oracle's America's Cup multihull Syndicate) is fairly quick to admit that his 49er year was 'challenging' in the least, not his cup of tea



Ah... we are talking about SAILING AND EVALUATING the aspects of the boats.... NOT winning the gold... You don't think Bundy could evaluate 4 or 5 skiffs?

The conflict of interest charges are almost certain if the skiff only girls are allied with specific builders to promote a specific boat. .. they certainly rage on the multihull side of the ledger.

Remember... Olympics are about sailing... not boat development... Bundy could certainly appreciate ANY nuances of the skiff fleet and evaluate this in the context of an Olympic boat.

How sophisticated do you think the laser is?

Convince me... you two simply assert that only a skiff expert is qualified to choose.... pretty weak IMO.

#47 GybeSet®

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Posted 07 January 2012 - 11:05 PM

Remember... Olympics are about sailing... not boat development... Bundy could certainly appreciate ANY nuances of the skiff fleet and evaluate this in the context of an Olympic boat.

Remember ... currently the boats are in a development phase


Remember... Olympics are about sailing... not boat development... Bundy could certainly appreciate ANY nuances of the skiff fleet and evaluate this in the context of an Olympic boat.

Remember... Olympics are about sailing... not boat development... Bundy a herd of hirsute 110kg+ Estonian & Prussian Finn veterans could certainly appreciate ANY nuances of the skiff fleet High Performance Olympic Mixed multihull fleet contenders and evaluate this in the context of an Olympic boat.

? ?

mmm nah ...... i'm with '-girl', it's horses for courses

#48 RobG

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 09:03 AM

In AUS girls sail skiffs (there are several competitors to the 29er there). However, there is no boat for them to transition to as they get older.
<snip>
Bottom line, there are women who want to sail skiffs. I think you just don't know them yet because they are mostly young girls.


There is the 13' skiff, which is designed as a transition to a 16' skiff. The general age limit is 26 for official regattas, but women can sail it in until 30 (or as long as they like at club level). Where I sail, most of the 13 skippers are women with a male crew, though of course there are some same-sex crews.




#49 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:04 PM

Bundy could certainly appreciate ANY nuances of the skiff fleet and evaluate this in the context of an Olympic boat.

How sophisticated do you think the laser is?


So then you won't mind if two skiff girls test the catamarans for selection then. Bundy can stay home.

#50 Tcatman

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Posted 09 January 2012 - 02:53 PM


Bundy could certainly appreciate ANY nuances of the skiff fleet and evaluate this in the context of an Olympic boat.

How sophisticated do you think the laser is?


So then you won't mind if two skiff girls test the catamarans for selection then. Bundy can stay home.

Correct!

I don't think it's that hard to do!.... The selection committed sailors are NOT test pilots who are to give feedback to the designer to adjust the boat in some way..

They are like the testers for Consumer Reports. They make their reports to the editorial board and ratings and rankings are produced. Just like CR... the independence and integrity of the entire group is the most important factor.

The second factor must include perspectives from around the world and particularly include sailors from countries that ISAF believes could put forth a campaign for 16 (but not a gold plated campaign).

The third factor should be experience competing internationally and in the Olympic classes

I think it's much harder to sort out the vested interests and conflict of interests in the inbred world of sailing. Recognizing this and using the structure of all of the international sailors evaluating all of the boats is a good solution. I think having two skiff sailors... one M and F who are PART of the team to evaluate the cats will be fine.

IMO, It is a team of evaluators that will work at this for a week. Their ability to work together, articulate the differences and find a consensus are far more important then a counting of Olympic medals in skiffs or cats.

I wish ISAF would do a better job of communicating whatever their process is... Sunlight is wonderful.

#51 K_B

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 03:10 AM

It doesn't matter which boat you pick, or who selects it, someone's gonna be unhappy.

#52 Snikch

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 06:26 PM

It doesn't matter which boat you pick, or who selects it, someone's gonna be unhappy.


+1

#53 cantp1

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 06:28 PM



Bundy could certainly appreciate ANY nuances of the skiff fleet and evaluate this in the context of an Olympic boat.

How sophisticated do you think the laser is?


So then you won't mind if two skiff girls test the catamarans for selection then. Bundy can stay home.

Correct!

I don't think it's that hard to do!.... The selection committed sailors are NOT test pilots who are to give feedback to the designer to adjust the boat in some way..

They are like the testers for Consumer Reports. They make their reports to the editorial board and ratings and rankings are produced. Just like CR... the independence and integrity of the entire group is the most important factor.

The second factor must include perspectives from around the world and particularly include sailors from countries that ISAF believes could put forth a campaign for 16 (but not a gold plated campaign).

The third factor should be experience competing internationally and in the Olympic classes

I think it's much harder to sort out the vested interests and conflict of interests in the inbred world of sailing. Recognizing this and using the structure of all of the international sailors evaluating all of the boats is a good solution. I think having two skiff sailors... one M and F who are PART of the team to evaluate the cats will be fine.

IMO, It is a team of evaluators that will work at this for a week. Their ability to work together, articulate the differences and find a consensus are far more important then a counting of Olympic medals in skiffs or cats.

I wish ISAF would do a better job of communicating whatever their process is... Sunlight is wonderful.


MNA applications for "test pilots" just came out. Only requirement is for the skiffies to be Female...

#54 GybeSet®

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 07:33 PM

.
no surprise

#55 Fivestar50

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 11:39 PM


It would be nice to see a more prominent public presence of the women who would be sailing the boats, at the moment there seem to be very few (though that can always change)...


I think you have to consider where "skiffs" (in general) have been around a long time. In AUS girls sail skiffs (there are several competitors to the 29er there). However, there is no boat for them to transition to as they get older. If you are considering the US, the 29er has not been around that long. Skiffs in the US are slowly growing in popularity. But there is now a generation of young girls who are skilled 29er sailors and they are ready to transition to the Olympic boat (whatever that is).

Bottom line, there are women who want to sail skiffs. I think you just don't know them yet because they are mostly young girls.


Young women do not necessarily need a boat to "transition to". Unlike the teenage boys who will go on putting on weight and strength and look to larger more powerfull challanges, most women can keep sailing classes that may have originally designed and developed as "intermediate classes' for muxed gender youth sailing. In Australia there are a number of older women sailing Cherubs, against youth aged sailors, male and female. Out of politeness no one has asked the oldest of these her age, but she must be in her late 40s or early 50s. The populararity of a class for most people is more about the nature of the social group associated withi it rather than the physical characeristics of the boat. Given the criteria set for the new Woman's Skiff, it is unlikley to ever be a popular class, more one reserved for the very small numbers of elite sailors with an Olympic dream.

One reason why there are not larger numbers of older women sailing 29ers regularly at clubs across Australia is the way that the class has developed as a "Regatta Class". The Pathways concept pushed by the yachting authorities to focus the development of the next generation of elite saiors effectively works to kill regular, local participation.

#56 Presuming Ed

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:54 AM

Boats entered for the trials:

29erXX – Ovington Boats
ARUP Skiff - ARUP
AURA – Ovington Boats
Hartley Rebel – Hartley Boats
Mackay FX – Mackay Boats
RS900 – RS Sailing

ARUP? Mackay FX?

#57 l4k

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:09 AM

Boats entered for the trials:

29erXX – Ovington Boats
ARUP Skiff - ARUP
AURA – Ovington Boats
Hartley Rebel – Hartley Boats
Mackay FX – Mackay Boats
RS900 – RS Sailing

ARUP? Mackay FX?


Mackay FX is small rig 49er, Arup appears to be some kind of Cherub. Pics on ISAF site - link

#58 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:39 PM


Boats entered for the trials:

29erXX – Ovington Boats
ARUP Skiff - ARUP
AURA – Ovington Boats
Hartley Rebel – Hartley Boats
Mackay FX – Mackay Boats
RS900 – RS Sailing

ARUP? Mackay FX?


Mackay FX is small rig 49er, Arup appears to be some kind of Cherub. Pics on ISAF site - link


Cool to see photos of all the boats being proposed. A few of the boats resemble an I14. Does anyone know if the RFP proposed a max retail price, or a price range?

#59 JimC

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:10 PM

Arup appears to be some kind of Cherub.

The picture on the ISAF site is not, according to rumour I hear, strictly the Arup boat. The word I hear is that it is derived from the boat in the pic, a recent Cherub design, but with various changes, including solid wings rather than racks. Of course I could easily be wrong.

#60 skiffboy

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:32 PM

Fucking teases.

Posted Image

#61 Reht

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:51 PM

Looks like a different finish, did they change anything else on the boat?

#62 skiffboy

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:37 AM

No idea, it was just this one photo posted on facebook with no commentry. Colour is the same as what I saw at Grafham last year but I believe they are still developing the sailplan - which is why there are no photos of it yet.

#63 pcraig

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 04:00 PM

Arup skiff is not actually based on the Cherub in the picture.

The Cherub in the picture is called 'Riot Van' and is a Banshee design. The Arup skiff, is based on the Ellway E6 Cherub design and as Jim says it is intended to have solid wings instead of the normal tubes.

#64 Serenissima

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:55 PM



The real question is how many really want to sail any type of skiff, there does not seem to be any female interest in this tread?
Are there enough to make this event representative?


Maybe the women who will sails skiffs don't read sailing anarchy


A little late on the reply I know but we do! We're all just really young. Most of the female skiff sailors at my club are 17- 21, with lots of interested younger girls coming up from 420s this season.

#65 Kiwi Spy

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:08 PM

Here 's a clip of the Mackay FX being put through her paces off Takapuna. Uses a 49er hull and a rig that is one metre lower than the 49er.

Everyone that has sailed it (women crews only) have rated it very highly, and even those with no twin wire experience took about an hour to come to grips with it.

Next clip will be shot in a good seabreeze (and with a bit of sunshine :-) )

Mackay FX under test

RG

#66 Reht

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:13 AM

Here 's a clip of the Mackay FX being put through her paces off Takapuna. Uses a 49er hull and a rig that is one metre lower than the 49er.

Everyone that has sailed it (women crews only) have rated it very highly, and even those with no twin wire experience took about an hour to come to grips with it.

Next clip will be shot in a good seabreeze (and with a bit of sunshine :-) )

Mackay FX under test

RG


Very neat! To me the boat looks a little odd with that 1m of mast missing off the top, but that's probably because I'm too used to the 49er. The kite definitely looks like a different shape, do you know if there's a reason for that? I still think the 49er hull might be a touch on the big side, but we'll be seeing how it ranks up against the other options soon enough.

#67 Kiwi Spy

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:57 AM

The idea with the sail plan was to keep it balanced, and to be able to step the mast in the same place as the 49er does with a bigger rig.

The odd thing is probably the fat-top mainsail, but you get used to that. They have also factored in the country flags int the sail plan - so everyone will have their country flag on the boat, if that is the way the class plays it.

Also Mackays were required to gear the power from the sail area to the specified crew weight, which is a bit light. Certainly the people sailing the boat (particularly Jo Aleh and Susannah Pyatt) are not big people. So you get the same issue with the gennaker - it has to be that size because of the crew size and weight.

People were a bit concerned that the hull would be too big, but in practice it is more stable than a smaller option. When they were sailing against the 49ers in the Sir Peter Blake regatta, there wasn't a lot of difference in speed - but more in the crew ability - same as you would see in the 470 with a good women's crew competing against mens crews. The FX certainly wasn't 120 minutes behind the 49er. As the breeze comes up the speed gap will disappear anyway.

The boat looks great sailing in the flesh.

RG

#68 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 01:39 PM

How much does the boat weigh? I.e. launching and hauling?
thx.

#69 skiffboy

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:14 PM

Another video on the RS900is up.

#70 Kiwi Spy

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 10:37 PM

How much does the boat weigh? I.e. launching and hauling?
thx.


Pretty much the same as the 49er, I guess, as the hull is a 49er hull and the rig would be slightly lighter. That is one of the big advantages of the boat in that you can just drop an FX rig onto a 49er hull and away you go, launching trolley and all that is the same. The point being that at entry level you can just pick up a second hand 49er, get an FX rig and away you go. You can get to learn how to sail the boat, without trashing a brand new boat. Once you have learned the ropes then you might step up and get a new 49er hull and FX rig. If you don't like it, it is pretty easy to sell the 49er hull back in the same second hand market in which you bought it - whcih can be bought by male or female crews. Even the sheets are the same as the 49er, plus the foils, boom and prodder. The only new bits are the mast, and three sails.

The 49er came out for a while with a sport rig - going way back, and this is the same concept, but better.

RG

#71 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 12:49 AM

(Per 49er class rules)
49er hull (without the rig) has a minimum weight of 94kgs (206.8 lbs)

*Curious how the 49er hull weight compares to the RS. Anyone have that information about the RS?

The 29er has a minimum weight of 74kg (163 lbs) That is without the XX rail extenders which probably add 2 kg or so I would guess.

#72 Kiwi Spy

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:03 AM

(Per 49er class rules)
49er hull (without the rig) has a minimum weight of 94kgs (206.8 lbs)

*Curious how the 49er hull weight compares to the RS. Anyone have that information about the RS?

The 29er has a minimum weight of 74kg (163 lbs) That is without the XX rail extenders which probably add 2 kg or so I would guess.


The 29er is at least 300mm shorter than the 49er so would weigh less. Not sure if the 49er's minimum hull weight includes wings, but it would seem to. There is no published hull weight for the RS900 that I can see. The RS800 of which it is developed is about the same weight as the RS800, but that boat has racks where the RS900 has a wing platform.

RG

#73 trenace

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:15 AM

The RS800 of which it is developed is about the same weight as the RS800,


Um, I guess...

?

#74 skiffboy

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 09:55 AM

800 is listed at 62kg. That seems more like bare hull than fitted hull I think. I'd expect the 900 to work about the same - there's a little more boat, but it's made from black shit & not white shit.

#75 Kiwi Spy

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 11:24 AM

The RS800 of which it is developed is about the same weight as the RS800,


Um, I guess...

?


Yes more than likely, I suspect

RG

#76 JimC

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 04:36 PM

The Arup should be by far the smallest and lightest. Bare Hull (minus wings) ought to be nearer 40kg than 50 I should have thought.

#77 skiffboy

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:54 PM


The RS800 of which it is developed is about the same weight as the RS800,


Um, I guess...

?


Yes more than likely, I suspect

RG

I believe the present 900 is developed from a modified 800 (with the 49er wings), which is supposed to be about the same weight as a stock 800.

#78 cantp1

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 01:44 AM

Anyone seen this new vid of the 49er FX yet? Looks alright, but perhaps a little slow.

I think they need A LOT more breeze for their next video. Apparently they're on the water today doing some testing...



#79 Reht

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:35 PM

Anyone seen this new vid of the 49er FX yet? Looks alright, but perhaps a little slow.

I think they need A LOT more breeze for their next video. Apparently they're on the water today doing some testing...



Was posted in a link about 13 posts back. There was a quick discussion of it at the bottom of page 3...

#80 couchsurfer

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:52 PM

Anyone seen this new vid of the 49er FX yet? Looks alright, but perhaps a little slow.

I think they need A LOT more breeze for their next video. Apparently they're on the water today doing some testing...




great resourceful concept,,,stupid song

#81 17mika

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:17 PM

Another video on the RS900is up.


I like it; baybe I'd just want something to divide the two halves of the boat, to help poor sailors (like me) to put the weight on the right side of the boat, when things go wrong :D

Looking at the boat, especially downwind, it seems quite more "bow-up" than the niners.. am I right?
It may not be the fastest in normal condition, but it could help not to cartwheel when it gets frightening; but, most of all, looks pretty much fun!

#82 cantp1

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:20 PM


Another video on the RS900is up.


I like it; baybe I'd just want something to divide the two halves of the boat, to help poor sailors (like me) to put the weight on the right side of the boat, when things go wrong :D

Looking at the boat, especially downwind, it seems quite more "bow-up" than the niners.. am I right?
It may not be the fastest in normal condition, but it could help not to cartwheel when it gets frightening; but, most of all, looks pretty much fun!


Sorry about missing the Mackay vid on page 3..!

You're right though the RS900 looks far more bow up than the 49er. The 49er is actually quite bow heavy. The 900's bow barely ever touches the water, whereas the 49er's bow kisses the waves much more and tends to want to go "in."

Is this difference due to spinnaker shape or hull buoyancy distribution? The spin on the RS900 looks a little "puffier" and higher up than a 49er's...

#83 JimC

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

Is this difference due to spinnaker shape or hull buoyancy distribution?

Rocker - and the equivalent spring on the buttock lines. To grossly oversimplify the more the spring aft of mid length the less likely you are to go down the mine and the less likely you are to go fast enough for it to be a problem anyway.

#84 trenace

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:54 PM

Yes, I was wondering if, and expecting, there would be a tradeoff there.

#85 cantp1

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 08:06 PM

Is this difference due to spinnaker shape or hull buoyancy distribution?

Rocker - and the equivalent spring on the buttock lines. To grossly oversimplify the more the spring aft of mid length the less likely you are to go down the mine and the less likely you are to go fast enough for it to be a problem anyway.


Sorry to sound stupid here. But what on earth is Rocker? Seen it mentioned 1000 times on SA, no idea what that term refers to...! Please educate me!

#86 JimC

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:14 PM

But what on earth is Rocker?

Curve in the underside of the hull, front to back. Normally measured on the centreline.

#87 Windward Mark

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:51 AM


Is this difference due to spinnaker shape or hull buoyancy distribution?

Rocker - and the equivalent spring on the buttock lines. To grossly oversimplify the more the spring aft of mid length the less likely you are to go down the mine and the less likely you are to go fast enough for it to be a problem anyway.


Sorry to sound stupid here. But what on earth is Rocker? Seen it mentioned 1000 times on SA, no idea what that term refers to...! Please educate me!


You fit in so well around here :lol:

#88 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:23 PM

The girls sailing the FX in this latest video look pretty tall. Any stats on their height?

#89 cantp1

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:46 PM

The girls sailing the FX in this latest video look pretty tall. Any stats on their height?


It's Alex and Molly (29erXX girls) from NZL. They're pretty average sized girls, not too big at all.

What bugs me about the 49erFX is that it looks too stable and too slow. But maybe a video of it in 25 knots will change my mind ;)

#90 trenace

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:13 PM


The girls sailing the FX in this latest video look pretty tall. Any stats on their height?


It's Alex and Molly (29erXX girls) from NZL. They're pretty average sized girls, not too big at all.

What bugs me about the 49erFX is that it looks too stable and too slow. But maybe a video of it in 25 knots will change my mind ;)


If Mackay's reports of the speed essentially matching the 49er are not BS, then it can't be slow.

Also, I just don't see how it could wind up being slow with only a 10% reduction in sail area from the 49er.

I am guessing it looked so stable because of the skill of the sailors, rather than out of actually being any or substantially more stable than the 49er. Though all things are relative and perhaps you were looking for more instability than that.

#91 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:30 AM


The girls sailing the FX in this latest video look pretty tall. Any stats on their height?


It's Alex and Molly (29erXX girls) from NZL. They're pretty average sized girls, not too big at all.


Sorry but that is not Alex and Molly. Alex is about 5'-4" and the skipper in the video is noticeably taller - Not to mention that Alex and Molly have much better boat handling skills then the girls sailing the FX in this video.

#92 vadfan

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:26 PM



The girls sailing the FX in this latest video look pretty tall. Any stats on their height?


It's Alex and Molly (29erXX girls) from NZL. They're pretty average sized girls, not too big at all.


Sorry but that is not Alex and Molly. Alex is about 5'-4" and the skipper in the video is noticeably taller - Not to mention that Alex and Molly have much better boat handling skills then the girls sailing the FX in this video.



I believe that is the kiwi 470 team of Aleh/Powrie. See http://www.teamjollyracing.com/ Google will tell you that Jo was 171 cm or 5'7" and 62/137 kg/lbs at the 2008 Olympics sailing a Radial.

#93 Kiwi Spy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:55 AM

Here's the latest video on the FX from mackay with comment from Martine Grael and Isabel Swan (BRA) plus several NZ sailors including and an Irish 49er sailor

Some of the footage was shot in winds of up to 25kts - with the Brazilian sailors having their first sail in 18-22kts

FX Latest - Sailors comment

RG

#94 mustang__1

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:14 AM

thanks for sharing. its obviously always hard to judge things from a video, but i was still expecting just a bit... more out of the boat.

#95 GybeSet®

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:39 AM

more what ?

if they weren't Int champs and it was say, you on the boat i'm sure it would look more like Ronstan 18' video

thats reasonably mild weather imo, not 25 knts

what bugs me about the 49erFX is that it looks too stable and too slow. But maybe a video of it in 25 knots will change my mind ;)

you've sailed the 49er yeah

how is that even possible

rewind to the final Gold Medal race at Quindao , how is this going to be any different ?

note that slower & short boats will get hosed whilst making more fuss and looking more spectacular, find a 12 footer vid

#96 mustang__1

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 06:31 AM

more what ?

if they weren't Int champs and it was say, you on the boat i'm sure it would look more like Ronstan 18' video

thats reasonably mild weather imo, not 25 knts


what bugs me about the 49erFX is that it looks too stable and too slow. But maybe a video of it in 25 knots will change my mind ;)

you've sailed the 49er yeah

how is that even possible

rewind to the final Gold Medal race at Quindao , how is this going to be any different ?

note that slower & short boats will get hosed whilst making more fuss and looking more spectacular, find a 12 footer vid


Depends on who my helm is eh? Posted Image .

#97 Kiwi Spy

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:44 AM

thats reasonably mild weather imo, not 25 knts



I checked the wind strength when the Brazilians were out and it was officially recorded as in the 18 average gusting 22kts on Tuesday evening.

The shots with the 49er and FX were in more wind than that

The rest of it (the bright sunny stuff close to the beach) is in about 10-14kts Can't remember/don't know what the other days were but I would guess 14-18kts. Jo Aleh was sailing that day - and she is not big and was her third time out in the FX. Her crew (wearing shorts) is Sussanah Pyatt (Elliott 6 Olympic rep) and she was on her first time out in the FX, and is about the same size as Jo Aleh - trhey would have been lucky to make the bottom end of the ISAF weight band for the boats.

I was on the water in Qingdao when the medal race was run in the 49ers - it was twice as bad as it looked on TV. One of the most insane races I have seen, and not a good benchmark for anything.

RG

#98 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:06 PM

The latest FX video is GREAT! Alex and Molly look solid:)

#99 17mika

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:00 AM

Few official data of the RS900, from the latest Y&Y (in brackets rs800 data)

LOA 4.68 (4.8)
LWL 4.50
Beam 2.83 (1,88-2.89)
Draught 1.46
Hull weight with no wings 50 kg (62)
Overall weight 109kg (110)
Main 11.8 (main + jib 16.5)
jib 6.05
Kite 26.6 (21)

I thought it would have been a bit lighter, but I guess wings are not that light

#100 sail_like_a_girl

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:56 AM

I thought it would have been a bit lighter, but I guess wings are not that light


+1




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