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#1 Swimsailor

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Posted 26 October 2011 - 11:58 PM

Interesting take on a modern C & C design: http://www.c-cyachts...a2-7c101f99ea4b

Looks a little quirky to my eye, but has some "in person" potential a la Porsche Panamera. Its no sporty but if my family can sleep confortably at the lake, then I just might be interested. I'm just happy to see the new owners moving the brand forward.

#2 Bulbhunter

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:05 AM

I think the sweet spot for boat size has always hovered around the 32-34ft mark given most are easily handled by two and in a pinch handled by one person. The sails aren't massive etc.

Given the trials and tribulations of the C&C brand I wouldn't buy the first few boats and would go crew on one for a season before getting excited about it.

I would probably import a Elan 310 or 350 before considering an unknown boat and build quality.

I would even put the Bendy 30 higher up the list or a used C%C 99 for half the price.

By the way there is a really nice Elan 310 in Seattle for sale no affiliation except I was going to try and get up there and go for a sail on it with the owner. Now my hope is that it heads south to SF and I can snag a ride on it.

#3 Bulbhunter

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:16 AM

http://www.yachtworl...A/United-States

Far more Cool factor than the C&C which looks like its stuck in the 80's regarding looks.
Also the 310 in tiller format is my preference - but the helm that tacks across the cockpit with you has the Porsche Panamera like cool factor along with the duel rudder set up.

The C&C looks like a 99 with a asymmetric tacked to the front of it.

#4 walterbshaffer

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:04 AM

Neither. I did notice this in the promo material: "With swept back spreaders led outboard to the hull sides, the 101 offers an impressive 671 square feet of upwind sail area without the hassle of large overlapping headsails."

Uh-huh.

Saw the storyboard for the 101 at the Newport boat show and it struck me how similar it was, but I'd rather have a 10R

Attached File  reachingport1.jpg   45.48K   137 downloads

#5 Streetwise

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:26 AM

I've been sailing on a C&C 99 since 2005, and I love it as a cruiser/racer. 6ft headroom, two private double berths, kitchen, bathroom, carbon mast. It sails pretty well to its 108 PHRF rating.

The 101 has all the upgrades that I wish we had on our 99. A taller mast, a nice deep keel, 1500 lbs less displacement, asymmetric spin on centerline carbon sprit, larger cockpit, and a tiller (although I don't mind the wheel on the 99). It has almost the same upwind sail area as a J/109 from the research I did. I'll be really interested to see the interior layout and of course the price point.

It looks like we are seeing a new designer put his stamp on the future of the C&C brand.

Cheers,

jason

#6 Bulbhunter

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:28 AM

I've been sailing on a C&C 99 since 2005, and I love it as a cruiser/racer. 6ft headroom, two private double berths, kitchen, bathroom, carbon mast. It sails pretty well to its 108 PHRF rating.

The 101 has all the upgrades that I wish we had on our 99. A taller mast, a nice deep keel, 1500 lbs less displacement, asymmetric spin on centerline carbon sprit, larger cockpit, and a tiller (although I don't mind the wheel on the 99). It has almost the same upwind sail area as a J/109 from the research I did. I'll be really interested to see the interior layout and of course the price point.

It looks like we are seeing a new designer put his stamp on the future of the C&C brand.

Cheers,

jason


Jason you have a viper too right? ;-)

#7 the_abandoned_brane

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:32 AM

nice boat. people seem to like theyre c&cs.

#8 Streetwise

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:26 AM

Jason you have a viper too right? ;-)


Yes, which is satisfying my needs for lightweight planing and one-design racing! :)

However, I still love cruising with my wife in a fast boat. I still did about 5-6 races with my 76-year old father on the 99 this summer, and loved every minute. My racing pride point has been winning the double-handed race with my dad the last 3-4 years. With the lopez blocks I put at the mast for uphaul and downhaul, I can do foredeck, spin launch and douse, and all the trimming while my dad drives. :) It is fun to race with the bigger boats and we have a deep A fleet at our club, and with the Canadians that come down for weekend races.

I grew up sailing a C&C 32 from the 1983 until we upgraded to the 99 in 2005. It was a nice boat for its time of production, but upgrading to the 99 was amazing. All the systems got better and way more ergonomic; the boat was much faster, and the cruising amenities were more, but all in the same size and less weight. I don't even have complaints about the size of the 99 cockpit, since it should only hold the driver, jib trimmer and main trimmer. Whoever does the tacking grind of the jib sheet should be outboard of the cockpit against the lifelines, and then back on the rail with the foredeck (or do both jobs). I am not jealous of any symmetrical cruiser/racers of its size.

One complaint with the 99 was that when it went to a carbon mast, they switched to a shorter and slightly heavier shoal draft keel to keep both variations rating even. This might be fixed with a new #1 (ours is old), but the older alu mast, deep keel 99 we sail against (with new #1) sometimes outpoints us upwind at the top end of the #1. If I were ever to mod the 99, I would get a lighter custom deep keel first. Compared to the 32, which could get squirrelly near DDW, the wide stern of the 99 makes it stable carrying the symmetrical at any angle in any wind. Hell, we've gotten her to 14 knots surfing lake waves downwind in an overnight race. I don't think we have ever broached it.

The 101 has a five foot taller mast, a foot deeper keel, so it would be even better upwind, and we wouldn't have to carry three jibs.

With the way retirement investment funds are fluctuating, and the fact that I don't yet make enough money to help much with an upgrade, I'm not sure it would be realistic for my 76-year old dad to change boats, but I still love to look for the best 32-33 foot racer/cruiser balance. Who knows what will happen. I wish the new Columbia 32 came with a carbon mast by default (you can get one), and a simple, lightweight V berth and separate bathroom, since it already has the headroom and the racing specs. Let us cruise it too! That Elan looks nice, but I would want a carbon mast, and I bet the 101 will be cheaper to buy in America.

Cheers,

jason

#9 Swimsailor

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:45 AM

Neither. I did notice this in the promo material: "With swept back spreaders led outboard to the hull sides, the 101 offers an impressive 671 square feet of upwind sail area without the hassle of large overlapping headsails."

Uh-huh.

Saw the storyboard for the 101 at the Newport boat show and it struck me how similar it was, but I'd rather have a 10R

Attached File  reachingport1.jpg   45.48K   137 downloads



I actually think the 10R was the best execution of the breed in 15 years. Its hard to find one now though that hasn't been cruisered up with furling, pilot and hot/cold pressure water.

The Elan looks the part but that wheel would bug the shit out me.

I'd be interested in the 101's interior layout.

Anyone know how the First 30 goes in the light stuff with the big booty?

#10 Bulbhunter

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 03:47 AM


Jason you have a viper too right? ;-)


Yes, which is satisfying my needs for lightweight planing and one-design racing! :)

However, I still love cruising with my wife in a fast boat. I still did about 5-6 races with my 76-year old father on the 99 this summer, and loved every minute. My racing pride point has been winning the double-handed race with my dad the last 3-4 years. With the lopez blocks I put at the mast for uphaul and downhaul, I can do foredeck, spin launch and douse, and all the trimming while my dad drives. :) It is fun to race with the bigger boats and we have a deep A fleet at our club, and with the Canadians that come down for weekend races.

I grew up sailing a C&C 32 from the 1983 until we upgraded to the 99 in 2005. It was a nice boat for its time of production, but upgrading to the 99 was amazing. All the systems got better and way more ergonomic; the boat was much faster, and the cruising amenities were more, but all in the same size and less weight. I don't even have complaints about the size of the 99 cockpit, since it should only hold the driver, jib trimmer and main trimmer. Whoever does the tacking grind of the jib sheet should be outboard of the cockpit against the lifelines, and then back on the rail with the foredeck (or do both jobs). I am not jealous of any symmetrical cruiser/racers of its size.

One complaint with the 99 was that when it went to a carbon mast, they switched to a shorter and slightly heavier shoal draft keel to keep both variations rating even. This might be fixed with a new #1 (ours is old), but the older alu mast, deep keel 99 we sail against (with new #1) sometimes outpoints us upwind at the top end of the #1. If I were ever to mod the 99, I would get a lighter custom deep keel first. Compared to the 32, which could get squirrelly near DDW, the wide stern of the 99 makes it stable carrying the symmetrical at any angle in any wind. Hell, we've gotten her to 14 knots surfing lake waves downwind in an overnight race. I don't think we have ever broached it.

The 101 has a five foot taller mast, a foot deeper keel, so it would be even better upwind, and we wouldn't have to carry three jibs.

With the way retirement investment funds are fluctuating, and the fact that I don't yet make enough money to help much with an upgrade, I'm not sure it would be realistic for my 76-year old dad to change boats, but I still love to look for the best 32-33 foot racer/cruiser balance. Who knows what will happen. I wish the new Columbia 32 came with a carbon mast by default (you can get one), and a simple, lightweight V berth and separate bathroom, since it already has the headroom and the racing specs. Let us cruise it too! That Elan looks nice, but I would want a carbon mast, and I bet the 101 will be cheaper to buy in America.

Cheers,

jason



The 2yr old hit my sailing fun the past two years. The 99 I was doing foredeck on has an open invite whenever I can get back on the water. They did do a 2nd main sheet system change that they say is far superior to the original set up and the 1st effort. Still haven't seen it yet though. The carbon rig is stiff as hell and took a few years for us to sort out and get the boat to point. But now it works really well. I'll try and get the scoop on what the point trick was next time I talk with them. Till that point thing was figured out the boat was fast but couldn't point to save its ass. LOL Now the boat is pretty fast and points well. I'll need to find out what the trick was.

I've always liked the 99 nice size good combo of cabin functionality and pretty nice performance. Though after seeing a few Elan's while in Croatia and the new 310 and 350's are dead on exactly what I want for the final family sailing machine. Duel rudder - tiller would be ideal - deck mounted Asymmetric pole nice quality interior thats not over the top fancy but not your stripped out fiberglass can etc.

I like carbon but for low maint I'm cool with a proper aluminum rig. You can go carbon on the Elan's they'll do just about anything you want. But the 310 in aluminum is fine by me. The 450 in carbon would be the cats meow but I don't see us cruising so 310 would make sense if most of the sailing was short handed SSS - fun events like Great Pumpkin - farallons race short coastal stuff. The 350 would be if we end up hard core with a bunch of dedicated folks given the 350 is really their hot boat.

If I wanted fast and short handed friendly I'd tell Antrim to print off another Open 40 set of plans and get one built. That is machine!

#11 Streetwise

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 04:06 AM

The 2yr old hit my sailing fun the past two years. The 99 I was doing foredeck on has an open invite whenever I can get back on the water. They did do a 2nd main sheet system change that they say is far superior to the original set up and the 1st effort. Still haven't seen it yet though. The carbon rig is stiff as hell and took a few years for us to sort out and get the boat to point. But now it works really well. I'll try and get the scoop on what the point trick was next time I talk with them. Till that point thing was figured out the boat was fast but couldn't point to save its ass. LOL Now the boat is pretty fast and points well. I'll need to find out what the trick was.

I've always liked the 99 nice size good combo of cabin functionality and pretty nice performance. Though after seeing a few Elan's while in Croatia and the new 310 and 350's are dead on exactly what I want for the final family sailing machine. Duel rudder - tiller would be ideal - deck mounted Asymmetric pole nice quality interior thats not over the top fancy but not your stripped out fiberglass can etc.

I like carbon but for low maint I'm cool with a proper aluminum rig. You can go carbon on the Elan's they'll do just about anything you want. But the 310 in aluminum is fine by me. The 450 in carbon would be the cats meow but I don't see us cruising so 310 would make sense if most of the sailing was short handed SSS - fun events like Great Pumpkin - farallons race short coastal stuff. The 350 would be if we end up hard core with a bunch of dedicated folks given the 350 is really their hot boat.

If I wanted fast and short handed friendly I'd tell Antrim to print off another Open 40 set of plans and get one built. That is machine!


We are able to point fine with speed for the most part, with the secret of not trying to pinch at all! I just think the deep keel 99 slides sideways just a tiny bit less when heeled a lot. I like our 99 best in #2 weather anyway.

The other mods you should suggest for the 99 you sail on are getting a riser for the main sheet block, double-ending the vang and spin downhaul, and getting a continuous traveller line, with two fairleads on the pulpit. The old vang line fits perfectly for this, and lets you release the traveller from either side. You should also put lopez blocks on the spin uphaul and (in our case), both spin downhauls. This means the cockpit crew only has to tail the spin halyard on hoists, and the foredeck can do everything else. If you get the lopez cleat angle correct, you can always pull out of the cleat from the cockpit, so the guy trimmer can do downhaul adjustments from either side. We also downsized our halyards and got the smaller diameter line clutch jaws for the Spinlock clutches. For some reason our boat came with 12 clutches rather than the 10 I have seen on other 99s, so I had more freedom to do some of the ergonomic changes.

As for the 10R, it looks nice too, but is just short on headroom for my 6'1" father.

Cheers,

jason

#12 Streetwise

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:20 AM

Back to the C&C 101.

I really want to see the interior layout. They have gone from a private double berth in the back to two quarter berths, and from two settees to a double berth in the main cabin. It also sounds like the chart table might be more roomy, which would be nice. I don't see a mention of an oven, which is nice to have, but not essential. We do use ours on the 99.

Cheers,

jason

#13 jolly

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:44 AM

Interesting take on a modern C & C design: http://www.c-cyachts...a2-7c101f99ea4b

Looks a little quirky to my eye, but has some "in person" potential a la Porsche Panamera. Its no sporty but if my family can sleep confortably at the lake, then I just might be interested. I'm just happy to see the new owners moving the brand forward.


define "homo" for me would you?

#14 Gouvernail

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 08:06 AM

my family brand forward.





#15 crash

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 12:19 PM

I think the sweet spot for boat size has always hovered around the 32-34ft mark given most are easily handled by two and in a pinch handled by one person. The sails aren't massive etc.

Given the trials and tribulations of the C&C brand I wouldn't buy the first few boats and would go crew on one for a season before getting excited about it.

I would probably import a Elan 310 or 350 before considering an unknown boat and build quality.

I would even put the Bendy 30 higher up the list or a used C%C 99 for half the price.

By the way there is a really nice Elan 310 in Seattle for sale no affiliation except I was going to try and get up there and go for a sail on it with the owner. Now my hope is that it heads south to SF and I can snag a ride on it.


The C&C might have potential. By my guesstimates, its SA/Disp (~ 27 ) & Disp/Length (136) numbers are close to a J/111s (27/119). In fact it has close to the same (maybe alittle more) sail area than the J/111 (depending on exactly how measured, and I didn't go figure it out exactly from the rig dimensions of each)...I'd guess it would out perform the Elan 310, but isn't as likely to plane as a J/111.

My complaint with the 99 has always been the cooky angled bulkheads below....I've always prefered the standard perpendicular, "type A" layout, plus its big stern has never been good looking in my mind. But its a nice boat.

Reputation issue is something of a gamble now isn't it. First hulls are always the cheapest...so if they do a good job with them, you make out pretty nicely. If the boat takes off, later hulls get to be pretty expensive. (My 2003 J/109 based at 185/sailaway was around 220). When I sold 4 years later, the base 109 was approaching 250...

#16 Junkyard Dog

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:04 PM

Boy, you guys are getting soft.

What's it rate?

#17 Kmag

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 02:57 PM

First 30 is slow in the light stuff, we have a few in Marina del Rey.

The 10R is OK, a customer of mine has one and I race it on a regular basis. Took a little work to get going (and a new set of sails) but we are doing pretty well. I had to take off A LOT of weight and am still dragging things off the boat. It is hard when we owe a J-105 time that is 2000LBS lighter. Still not getting the bang for the buck out of the boat... so I think the owner is ready to sell and move into a sportier boat.

Ben 10R First & Ten


#18 walterbshaffer

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 05:20 PM

Ah yes, the perfect boat: cheap, fast & responsive like a kiteboard with the interior of an IP.

#19 altered ego

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 09:11 PM

Sail area, weight and amount of rocker about the same as the MAT 1010. anyone else see some similarities?

#20 Soley

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 10:27 PM

Pretty fucking homo looking. If you don't undestand that, its a bit ginger beer.

#21 Schnick

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 11:10 PM

Cool that the brand may carry on. That is a lot of rocker though.

#22 brutus

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 11:18 PM

Is this the hull of the 99 without the deck and alot of the interior. It looks very similar in hull shape.
Not sure how that hull shape would transfer to a boat with a much higher SA/D.

#23 Bulbhunter

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Posted 27 October 2011 - 11:28 PM

Hmm? 99 hull with new deck etc would raise some questions. Wouldn't be the first time an existing hull was repurposed and tweaked for a new boat. The fat ass on the 99 is one of the 99's weak points they would need to change that for sure.

#24 Kent H

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:53 AM

Same hull? Might be! The front and back can be altered but the beam is kind of tough. The beam difference is 3.34m vs 3.33m So this is a very good question to ask.

Cockpit. It appears that the cockpit is longer but I am not so sure about a tiller in this one. These are early drawings but with the tiller you are eating up a lot of cockpit. More than what I would expect. A wheel is an option.

C&C 99 I agree with the comments about the boat. The problem that I saw that limited sales was that it was not a one design. Too many different setups. So those who were looking for a one design didn't sign up even though the interior and a few other items are very nice.

This boat is going with a 6'6" keel. That is a little deep for the Tartan/C&C normal sales areas. My thought was the 99 should have stuck to the 5'6" keel (I think that is correct) and the original alloy mast. This new 101 might just work.

Even if it is the 99 hull this boat will have a few sales points that might just win customers depending on the price.

1. There is prejudice against a balsa hull - It exists and there is not much that can be done - The 101 is foam
2. I suspect that the sail drive will be Volvo vice Yanmar - If so there is a creeping prejudice against Yanmar
3. One Design - It does get your interest doesn't it! A lot more than we have eight different configurations for your sailing enjoyment.
4. A Canadian brand built in the ol USA. Can't get any more patriotic than that
5. It is not built in China or worse South Carolina ....Ha Ha I laugh at my own joke.


This is a very early proposal and I really want to see how they get all that weight out of a boat the size of the 99. Put that much more sail area up the mast and still keep the boat from delaminating or cracking. Wait and see.

#25 Kent H

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 07:34 AM

- A NOTE TO FUTURE SAILBOAT PRODUCT MARKETEERS..... /)


You may want to have an account with a number of posts already so you can post a one line link and see what happens.

Otherwise someone may just post a thread such as "Cool or Homo" definitely not the way to launch your new pride and joy to the world.


BTW thank you to whoever has sent me those links to brand new Jboats over the years....I really felt special :rolleyes:

#26 crash

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 10:29 AM

Same hull? Might be! The front and back can be altered but the beam is kind of tough. The beam difference is 3.34m vs 3.33m So this is a very good question to ask.

Cockpit. It appears that the cockpit is longer but I am not so sure about a tiller in this one. These are early drawings but with the tiller you are eating up a lot of cockpit. More than what I would expect. A wheel is an option.

C&C 99 I agree with the comments about the boat. The problem that I saw that limited sales was that it was not a one design. Too many different setups. So those who were looking for a one design didn't sign up even though the interior and a few other items are very nice.

This boat is going with a 6'6" keel. That is a little deep for the Tartan/C&C normal sales areas. My thought was the 99 should have stuck to the 5'6" keel (I think that is correct) and the original alloy mast. This new 101 might just work.

Even if it is the 99 hull this boat will have a few sales points that might just win customers depending on the price.

1. There is prejudice against a balsa hull - It exists and there is not much that can be done - The 101 is foam
2. I suspect that the sail drive will be Volvo vice Yanmar - If so there is a creeping prejudice against Yanmar
3. One Design - It does get your interest doesn't it! A lot more than we have eight different configurations for your sailing enjoyment.
4. A Canadian brand built in the ol USA. Can't get any more patriotic than that
5. It is not built in China or worse South Carolina ....Ha Ha I laugh at my own joke.


This is a very early proposal and I really want to see how they get all that weight out of a boat the size of the 99. Put that much more sail area up the mast and still keep the boat from delaminating or cracking. Wait and see.


While I'm not a NA, I think if you look at both the distribution of beam aft, and the underwater profile you'll notice key differences that seem to indicate a brand new hull design and not just a re-use of the same hull. The 99 carries its beam all the way aft (at least on deck) where as the beam of the 101 tapers as it goes aft. Also both boats bow knuckle/waterline are located in about the same spot. And the aft overhang is about the same on both boats with the LWL ending just forward of the rudder. But the 101 is longer (about a 1 ft longer LWL to) and lighter...if you just reused the 99 hull, you'd end up with a shorter LWL as the hull would "float higher" on its lines. Plus a new designer, who'd like to make his own mark. So I'm guessing its an entirely new hull design.



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#27 brutus

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:24 PM

Chop the back off of the boat and the profiles look very similar to the eye.
Why have a deck mounted sprit, unless you are using the old tooling for the 99?

Use the same hull and add a little more to the shoe on the keel and it should float on the same lines.

Looks like a new 99 to me. At least Jboats called theirs the J92S when it was relaunched.

#28 bored broker

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:42 PM

Chop the back off of the boat and the profiles look very similar to the eye.
Why have a deck mounted sprit, unless you are using the old tooling for the 99?

Use the same hull and add a little more to the shoe on the keel and it should float on the same lines.

Looks like a new 99 to me. At least Jboats called theirs the J92S when it was relaunched.

On the C&C tooling the sprit box is not in the hull mold. The opening is cut into the hul after it is removed from the mold so your argument about using the old tooling is mute. They do this because it is an option to have the asyms on the 110 and 115 although they realy did not want to do it on the 99 since they thought it would kill the one design which the mast and keel configurations had already done. I don't think it is posible to determine the true shape of the hull from a couple of simple one line sketches and the base stats. It looks like a good evelution to me, lets see how it sails.

#29 brutus

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 12:50 PM

Looks like a great club racer/cruiser to me as well. An evolution of the 99 is probably a good term for it.

#30 crash

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 03:57 PM

Chop the back off of the boat and the profiles look very similar to the eye.
Why have a deck mounted sprit, unless you are using the old tooling for the 99?

Use the same hull and add a little more to the shoe on the keel and it should float on the same lines.

Looks like a new 99 to me. At least Jboats called theirs the J92S when it was relaunched.



Sure, except that the 101 is longer by .4 feet of LOA and by .8 feet of LWL...so not sure you can "Chop the back off " of the shorter model and end up with a longer hull ; )

#31 Gallagher

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 06:38 PM


Interesting take on a modern C & C design: http://www.c-cyachts...a2-7c101f99ea4b

Looks a little quirky to my eye, but has some "in person" potential a la Porsche Panamera. Its no sporty but if my family can sleep confortably at the lake, then I just might be interested. I'm just happy to see the new owners moving the brand forward.


define "homo" for me would you?


"a genus of hominids including modern man (see Homo sapiens) and several extinct species of primitive man, including H. habilis and H. erectus"

....
or gay. Not sure which is implied here, but I am tending to lean towards the OP suggesting that this boat could possibly be described as resembling an extinct species of primitive man.



#32 Swimsailor

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 08:49 PM



Interesting take on a modern C & C design: http://www.c-cyachts...a2-7c101f99ea4b

Looks a little quirky to my eye, but has some "in person" potential a la Porsche Panamera. Its no sporty but if my family can sleep confortably at the lake, then I just might be interested. I'm just happy to see the new owners moving the brand forward.


define "homo" for me would you?


"a genus of hominids including modern man (see Homo sapiens) and several extinct species of primitive man, including H. habilis and H. erectus"

....
or gay. Not sure which is implied here, but I am tending to lean towards the OP suggesting that this boat could possibly be described as resembling an extinct species of primitive man.



Sheesh. For "anarchists" this is a sensitive bunch! I'll re-start the thread "Cool or Lame-o?" Would that be ok or will I offend people who are lame?

#33 Kent H

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Posted 28 October 2011 - 09:21 PM

Instead of Lame could we go with running challenged? I am never really that good dead down wind. The whole cover the guy in front of you and take his wind, so you might sneak by ---it just seemed rather gay....

So yes could you change the title to something less hostile?


How about

C&C 101 - Rihanna or Cher?

Rihanna being young, hot, new

Cher being sooo seventies ....both in age and style.


I thought Teaky copyrighted Cool or Homo? Don't you have to pay to use the phrase to some island republic that is in danger of going under water where Teaky is their King?

It is really all about your lack of creativity in posting. We all don't come here for the same thing every day. Show us something new.

#34 whynotsolo?

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 01:54 AM


Neither. I did notice this in the promo material: "With swept back spreaders led outboard to the hull sides, the 101 offers an impressive 671 square feet of upwind sail area without the hassle of large overlapping headsails."

Uh-huh.

Saw the storyboard for the 101 at the Newport boat show and it struck me how similar it was, but I'd rather have a 10R

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I actually think the 10R was the best execution of the breed in 15 years. Its hard to find one now though that hasn't been cruisered up with furling, pilot and hot/cold pressure water.

The Elan looks the part but that wheel would bug the shit out me.

I'd be interested in the 101's interior layout.

Anyone know how the First 30 goes in the light stuff with the big booty?



#35 whynotsolo?

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 01:56 AM

I race regularly against a 10R in light winds. It struggles in winds under 10 knots with most boats. We also have a sunfast 3200 (big booty) basically not competitive until it gets 14 knots of wind. it has a code 0 which is necessary.

#36 whynotsolo?

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:03 AM


I think the sweet spot for boat size has always hovered around the 32-34ft mark given most are easily handled by two and in a pinch handled by one person. The sails aren't massive etc.

Given the trials and tribulations of the C&C brand I wouldn't buy the first few boats and would go crew on one for a season before getting excited about it.

I would probably import a Elan 310 or 350 before considering an unknown boat and build quality.

I would even put the Bendy 30 higher up the list or a used C%C 99 for half the price.

By the way there is a really nice Elan 310 in Seattle for sale no affiliation except I was going to try and get up there and go for a sail on it with the owner. Now my hope is that it heads south to SF and I can snag a ride on it.


The C&C might have potential. By my guesstimates, its SA/Disp (~ 27 ) & Disp/Length (136) numbers are close to a J/111s (27/119). In fact it has close to the same (maybe alittle more) sail area than the J/111 (depending on exactly how measured, and I didn't go figure it out exactly from the rig dimensions of each)...I'd guess it would out perform the Elan 310, but isn't as likely to plane as a J/111.

My complaint with the 99 has always been the cooky angled bulkheads below....I've always prefered the standard perpendicular, "type A" layout, plus its big stern has never been good looking in my mind. But its a nice boat.

Reputation issue is something of a gamble now isn't it. First hulls are always the cheapest...so if they do a good job with them, you make out pretty nicely. If the boat takes off, later hulls get to be pretty expensive. (My 2003 J/109 based at 185/sailaway was around 220). When I sold 4 years later, the base 109 was approaching 250...



#37 whynotsolo?

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:08 AM

the sail area specification must be an error unless they are planning on a fat head main with crazy roach. I have a 110, P=45, E=15.5, sail area actual is 420 ft^2. It is a nast head rig, j-14, I -~52?. The displacement of the 110 is 13720 lbs, spec is 10900 so be careful there. When questioned, Tim Jackett said that 10900 is the "designed" weight not the actual weight.''

That said I love my 110. It can take anything and is a blast to sail. Additionally it has a beautiful interior. The wheel is big, tiller would be nice but not at all the goal of the 110.

#38 walterbshaffer

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:34 AM

I race regularly against a 10R in light winds. It struggles in winds under 10 knots with most boats. We also have a sunfast 3200 (big booty) basically not competitive until it gets 14 knots of wind. it has a code 0 which is necessary.

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#39 Swimsailor

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:46 AM

Instead of Lame could we go with running challenged? I am never really that good dead down wind. The whole cover the guy in front of you and take his wind, so you might sneak by ---it just seemed rather gay....

So yes could you change the title to something less hostile?


How about

C&C 101 - Rihanna or Cher?

Rihanna being young, hot, new

Cher being sooo seventies ....both in age and style.


I thought Teaky copyrighted Cool or Homo? Don't you have to pay to use the phrase to some island republic that is in danger of going under water where Teaky is their King?

It is really all about your lack of creativity in posting. We all don't come here for the same thing every day. Show us something new.


Thanks for the tips Kent. I remember those on my next "is this a cool boat or not" topic!

#40 Swimsailor

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 04:48 AM


I race regularly against a 10R in light winds. It struggles in winds under 10 knots with most boats. We also have a sunfast 3200 (big booty) basically not competitive until it gets 14 knots of wind. it has a code 0 which is necessary.

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Those are impressive numbers! Have you gone head to head against the First 30?

#41 whynotsolo?

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 02:46 PM

Pretty good considering the dacron headsail. With those speeds the 10R should do the Volvo race!

#42 walterbshaffer

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Posted 29 October 2011 - 03:43 PM



I race regularly against a 10R in light winds. It struggles in winds under 10 knots with most boats. We also have a sunfast 3200 (big booty) basically not competitive until it gets 14 knots of wind. it has a code 0 which is necessary.

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Those are impressive numbers! Have you gone head to head against the First 30?


Nope. SCyachts has one and I've been meaning to go see it and ask Barrett if we could "test drive' it, but just have not gotten around to it.


Pretty good considering the dacron headsail. With those speeds the 10R should do the Volvo race!

Yep, Neil Pryde delivery sails and it's only a 135.

When the boat is dialed in it is very fast, but I still have trouble finding that perfect groove. It really seems that all aspects of rig & sail trim have to be given attention in order to be speedy. I have to believe the 10R in your neighborhood has just not found the groove yet.

I have a feeling the CC 101 will be very much in the same vien. The outboard shrouds on a bit narrower hull shpould give it about the same amount of point. It will all be in the rig tune.

(I think the Sunfast that was in your neighborhood was on the hard at my marina a few weeks back - it was a "from the midwest somewhere" boat)

#43 whynotsolo?

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 03:59 AM

the boat you are referring to i believe, is named Upstart. it was in cali for the tpac. he sails his boat very well and admittedly struggles in light air. as i mentioned earlier i have a cc 110. I raced against him in the solo mac. it is a ~287nm race. this year it was 100 miles reaching and 200 upwind. The start was upwind, quite light with 3 kts increasing to 10 over 6 hrs or so. after that we eventually got ot the 100 nm reaching in 10-17 kts, then upwind for 200 nm in 8-24 kts. We raced PHRF, I was 81 he 93, i owed him 57:24. I got him by about 7:50:00 corrected. I think that his troubles were mostly with the light airs at the start. I was surprised that he did not get me in the remaining 260nm.

#44 Gallagher

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 03:50 PM




Interesting take on a modern C & C design: http://www.c-cyachts...a2-7c101f99ea4b

Looks a little quirky to my eye, but has some "in person" potential a la Porsche Panamera. Its no sporty but if my family can sleep confortably at the lake, then I just might be interested. I'm just happy to see the new owners moving the brand forward.


define "homo" for me would you?


"a genus of hominids including modern man (see Homo sapiens) and several extinct species of primitive man, including H. habilis and H. erectus"

....
or gay. Not sure which is implied here, but I am tending to lean towards the OP suggesting that this boat could possibly be described as resembling an extinct species of primitive man.



Sheesh. For "anarchists" this is a sensitive bunch! I'll re-start the thread "Cool or Lame-o?" Would that be ok or will I offend people who are lame?


I wasn't trying to be sensitive, I was trying to be a smartass....I guess it was a pretty homo attempt at humor :D

#45 walterbshaffer

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 04:55 PM

the boat you are referring to i believe, is named Upstart. it was in cali for the tpac. he sails his boat very well and admittedly struggles in light air. as i mentioned earlier i have a cc 110. I raced against him in the solo mac. it is a ~287nm race. this year it was 100 miles reaching and 200 upwind. The start was upwind, quite light with 3 kts increasing to 10 over 6 hrs or so. after that we eventually got ot the 100 nm reaching in 10-17 kts, then upwind for 200 nm in 8-24 kts. We raced PHRF, I was 81 he 93, i owed him 57:24. I got him by about 7:50:00 corrected. I think that his troubles were mostly with the light airs at the start. I was surprised that he did not get me in the remaining 260nm.


Yep, thats the one. was on the hard at our marina for about a month; wasn't there as of a few weeks ago. Supposed to be a reaching machine so that is suprising; maybe the sprit (assuming you have one) had something to do with it?

How you guys get away with ratings like 81 or 93 while I'm rated at 69 is very interesting. I think the C&C 101 is likely to rate towards the lower end of these numbers.

#46 Squalamax

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 10:22 PM


I race regularly against a 10R in light winds. It struggles in winds under 10 knots with most boats. We also have a sunfast 3200 (big booty) basically not competitive until it gets 14 knots of wind. it has a code 0 which is necessary.

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Methinks you need to calibrate your instruments! Looks like more than 2.5 knots of windspeed on the water.

#47 Swimsailor

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Posted 30 October 2011 - 11:10 PM

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />Interesting take on a modern C &amp; C design:<a href='http://www.c-cyachts...a2-7c101f99ea4b' class='bbc_url' title='External link' rel='nofollow external'>http://www.c-cyachts...1f99ea4b</a><br /><br />Looks a little quirky to my eye, but has some &quot;in person&quot; potential a la Porsche Panamera.Its no sporty but if my family can sleep confortably at the lake, then I just might be interested.I'm just happy to see the new owners moving the brand forward.<br />

<br /><br />define &quot;homo&quot; for me would you?<br />

<br /><br />&quot;a genus of hominids including modern man (see <b><i>Homo sapiens</i></b>) and several extinct species of primitive man, including <i>H. habilis</i> and <i>H. erectus&quot;<br /><br />....</i>or gay.Not sure which is implied here, but I am tending to lean towards the OP suggesting that this boat could possibly be described as resembling an extinct species of primitive man.<br /><i><br /></i><br />

<br /><br />Sheesh.For &quot;anarchists&quot; this is a sensitive bunch!I'll re-start the thread &quot;Cool or Lame-o?&quot;Would that be ok or will I offend people who are lame?<br />

<br /><br />I wasn't trying to be sensitive, I was trying to be a smartass....I guess it was a pretty homo attempt at humor <img src='http://forums.sailin...ult/biggrin.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':D' /><br />

<br /><br /><br />

You've redeemed yourself!

#48 walterbshaffer

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:50 AM



I race regularly against a 10R in light winds. It struggles in winds under 10 knots with most boats. We also have a sunfast 3200 (big booty) basically not competitive until it gets 14 knots of wind. it has a code 0 which is necessary.

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Methinks you need to calibrate your instruments! Looks like more than 2.5 knots of windspeed on the water.


Nope, they are accurate.

#49 whynotsolo?

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Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:19 AM

the 10R rates about 87 on lake michigan. Like I said, they are slow here. I passed one that had the North sail maker on it in a 30 nm distance race in 7-9 knts wind, I walked past them doing .3 kts faster. I was solo and they were 6 crew.. As for the solo mac, I can't hold a 3A chute in winds over 6 kts so I was jib reaching. I could hold a Code 0 up to about 10 kts but its not on my certificate. when we were reaching the winds were 10-18 kts. as for you photo, i suspect that you were experiencing some significant wind sheer. There was A time I did a distance race and the instruments were showing 10 kts, I was doing 8.5! I could have put a candle on the companionway hatch! Major sleep deparvation but it was what others near me were seeing too. In any event its great that you're enjoying your boat! Cheers!

#50 smcmsailor

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:17 PM

I just found this fuckin thread. Geeze.

1. This boat is not designed by Tim Jackett. I know the designer: Tom McNeill. He is a nice guy and knows his shit.

2. The 101 is not an evolution of the 99. The design concept is something that is better built than the First 30, Faster in the Light, has headroon which the j/105 doesn't have, and lacks the asshole factor of the J/111 The tooling is just being built . If you'll note the sprit is being built under the deck, unlike the j's you wont get a cold wet berth when you go to bed. The boat is something that targets the now aging 36.7 and 105 fleets on the great lakes.

3. There are already close to a dozen sold.

#51 Streetwise

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 07:33 PM

They now have a web page up for the 101 with drawings, photos, and renderings:

http://c-cyachts.com.../101/index.html

I think C&C is redoing their website.

I hope the 101 does really well!

Cheers,

jason

#52 crash

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:05 PM

I just found this fuckin thread. Geeze.

1. This boat is not designed by Tim Jackett. I know the designer: Tom McNeill. He is a nice guy and knows his shit.

2. The 101 is not an evolution of the 99. The design concept is something that is better built than the First 30, Faster in the Light, has headroon which the j/105 doesn't have, and lacks the asshole factor of the J/111 The tooling is just being built . If you'll note the sprit is being built under the deck, unlike the j's you wont get a cold wet berth when you go to bed. The boat is something that targets the now aging 36.7 and 105 fleets on the great lakes.

3. There are already close to a dozen sold.


So dude, I think the 101 is a cool boat, and it's on the list of boats worth thinking about. But why dis other boats? Asshole factor of the J/111? What exactly is that? Or are C&C owners all generally great guys and J/Boats owners generally assholes? Also, what makes you think J style sprit leads to a cold wet berth? Yes there are seals that must be maintained/replaced when the boat ages, but in 4 years of owning a 109, I never got any water on the vee-berth from the sprit.

Also, I suspect you mean there are deposits on a dozen boats. Not likely that anyone with that much money is dumb enough to give someone $200,000 ish dollars before they see the boat.

Again, I think the 101 could be a way neat boat. But I think it can stand on its own merits. No need to cite subjective opinions re the competition....

#53 Swimsailor

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:09 PM

Aren't most of the reasons we buy a particular boat over another subjective?

Regardless, it looks like a winner. Visually the rendering looks a lot like the older Columbia 30 and has the same deep aft cockpit. Having been on a First 30, I think the C & C would be an alternative if you can't grasp Juan K's vision.

#54 crash

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:19 PM

Aren't most of the reasons we buy a particular boat over another subjective?

Regardless, it looks like a winner. Visually the rendering looks a lot like the older Columbia 30 and has the same deep aft cockpit. Having been on a First 30, I think the C & C would be an alternative if you can't grasp Juan K's vision.



They are, absolutely. I just try to express them from a positive standpoint about the boats I like, vice a negative one against some other boat (or group of owners). Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

#55 damcoyote

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 08:51 PM

What's the price?

#56 Kent H

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Posted 07 February 2012 - 09:14 PM

- First 30? Other than both being sailboats what is to compare for a buyer? The First 30 comes in at least four versions. There may be more versions if they are going to do both the carbon and aluminum masts...that would be EIGHT versions!!! I really think that Juan K's vision got hijacked by the Bene corporate folks. The First 30 is a straight to video...I mean a straight to PHRF boat...not too good in IRC from what I hear either.

C&C 101 - Looks much better than in the drawing. Kids...this is what we call a one design! That means that supposedly each boat is the same as the other. This has a habit of increasing the resale and encouraging fair racing and easy to get help from fellow owners....unlike the First 30 which is well..junk.

That 3d model looks very good.

If I was working at C&C / Tartan / Plastic Boats R Us I would study the success and failure of the C&C 99, J 105, Bene 36.7 and of course the Flying Tiger. Read the threads carefully especially the thread of the First 30. Keep in mind that the First 30 thread got the second most views of any new boat in the history of Sailing Anarchy....yet it is a sales disaster in North America.

First thing is not to let idiot poster such as myself be the ones posting mis-information. Might want to jump into this thread at some point and/or run a one time ad on SA..... to put out information on things such as the Designer, price, where these new 12 boats are going (assuming these are even deposits not Dealer spec boats) and of course you have set up the prospective owners website... You did set up the prospective C&C 101 owners website with each dealer as the initial contact and a way to contact other prospective owners so fleets form and boats are sold....


Great Design...so far so good...but the only family that seems to be able to pull this off is named Johnstone.

Good luck

#57 port tack

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:34 AM

8100 lbs seem way heavy for a modern 33 ft boat. Looks nice, what its price tag?

#58 crash

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 12:18 PM

8100 lbs seem way heavy for a modern 33 ft boat. Looks nice, what its price tag?


Depends on the rating rule they are aiming for. If they have an eye towards IRC, then its not too heavy at all.

#59 Hobie Dog

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 03:38 PM

8100 lbs seem way heavy for a modern 33 ft boat. Looks nice, what its price tag?


WTF this is SA so I'll comment on a boat I have known about since reading this thread. :lol: So based on my extensive 10 minutes of "research" here goes...

8100 lbs is about right for a boat of this type UNLESS you get into extensive use of exotic materials and double the cost of the boat. Probably not the target market C&C is building this boat for.

6'6" draft is a little on the deep side for our waters, Chesapeake Bay, but manageable.

The Good: Really like the tiller versus a wheel on this size boat. Really like the rig setup and non over lapping headsail. Plenty of upwind sail area and with the tiller she will be a sweet ride to drive upwind.

The Bad: She is going to suck downwind in W/L races with the fixed sprit. Only in "dog off the chain" conditions will she plane (more like surf) and you will NEVER be able to makeup the extra distance you will sail with that fixed sprit. A J/33 will kick this boat's ass in W/L races all day long. Easy fix, just add a traditional spin pole and fly your A sails from that or just run symmetrical kites. Do that and you will have a great PHRF boat. Check with your local PHRF org on what you can do with the least amount of rating hit. If and this is a huge IF you ever get a OD fleet just take the pole off the boat and you are in OD configuration, EASY!!!

If your game is point to point distance races then the fixed sprit will be better but with a boat like this I would still want the traditional pole option for when the wind is dead aft and less than 15.

Looks like she will make a very nice fast and easy to handle cruiser as well.

Besides the designers illusion that you can make a sprit/A Sails work on a traditional NON-PLANING lead mine she looks great.

So my 10 minute conclusion; looks cool!

#60 damcoyote

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 04:04 PM


8100 lbs seem way heavy for a modern 33 ft boat. Looks nice, what its price tag?


WTF this is SA so I'll comment on a boat I have known about since reading this thread. :lol: So based on my extensive 10 minutes of "research" here goes...

8100 lbs is about right for a boat of this type UNLESS you get into extensive use of exotic materials and double the cost of the boat. Probably not the target market C&C is building this boat for.

6'6" draft is a little on the deep side for our waters, Chesapeake Bay, but manageable.

The Good: Really like the tiller versus a wheel on this size boat. Really like the rig setup and non over lapping headsail. Plenty of upwind sail area and with the tiller she will be a sweet ride to drive upwind.

The Bad: She is going to suck downwind in W/L races with the fixed sprit. Only in "dog off the chain" conditions will she plane (more like surf) and you will NEVER be able to makeup the extra distance you will sail with that fixed sprit. A J/33 will kick this boat's ass in W/L races all day long. Easy fix, just add a traditional spin pole and fly your A sails from that or just run symmetrical kites. Do that and you will have a great PHRF boat. Check with your local PHRF org on what you can do with the least amount of rating hit. If and this is a huge IF you ever get a OD fleet just take the pole off the boat and you are in OD configuration, EASY!!!

If your game is point to point distance races then the fixed sprit will be better but with a boat like this I would still want the traditional pole option for when the wind is dead aft and less than 15.

Looks like she will make a very nice fast and easy to handle cruiser as well.

Besides the designers illusion that you can make a sprit/A Sails work on a traditional NON-PLANING lead mine she looks great.

So my 10 minute conclusion; looks cool!

You bring up some good points. I am not really sure what will make a sailboat plane, but I thought hull shape and foil design along with displacement were the keys. When I look at the specs along side the J 111, the J is heavier and a bit narrower in the beam. It does have (just guessing) at least 2' extra waterline, but that should not really matter in planing or does it. The C&C carries slightly more base sail area. The J has huge downwind sail area, not sure about the C&C, that will make a difference. From the thread that I have read on here a lot of people really think the J moves quite nice or is the J a lead mine as well.

J 111
LOA 36.50
LWL 32.70
Beam 10.80
Displacement 9,300
100% Sail Area - (rig triangles) 663
Upwind Sail Area - Class Sails 751
Downwind Sail Area - Class Sails 1,798
Max Asymmetric Spinnaker - Class 1,410
DSPL/ Length 119
SA/ DSPL Upwind 27
SA/ DSPL Downwind 65 65
CE Category A A
Engine 21 hp 21 hp.

C&C 101
LOA ........................................................ 33 0 (10.0 m)
Beam ................................................................. 10 11-1/2 (3.34 m)
Draft .............................................. 6 6 (1.98 m)
Displacement ............................................... 8100 lbs (3674 kg)
Sail area ............................................ 671 sq ft (62.3 sq m)
I ........................................................................ 44 9 (13.64 m)
J .......................................................................... 12 6 (3.81 m)
P ...................................................................... 45 (13.71 m)
E ................................................................ 14 10 (4.52 m)
Mainsail area ............................... 399 sq ft (37.06 sq m)
100% Foretriangle ............................ 272 sq ft (25.27 sq m)
Bridge clearance ............................................ 54 6 (16.61 m)
Ballast/displacement ........................................................ 40
Displacement/length ...................................................... 136

#61 Swimsailor

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 04:21 PM

Not sure the J/111 is the right comparo here. Twice the cost and 3 feet longer. I think the competition is the First 30, Sun Fast 3200, Elan 310, J/97. None of which however have been sales successes in the U.S.

The sprit option is a great one for areas where its tough to find crew. The foredeck is by far the worst place to stick a novice and the asso on a sprit is a good way to reduce the number of crew you need by 1 or 2.

For the amount of furniture on board, 8100 lbs seems like a good number. The C & C 99 I sailed on for a few years came it at 10,000 lbs with all the shiz on board. The J/92s is only 3000 lbs lighter with no furniture, less length and less freeboard.

#62 crash

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 04:29 PM


8100 lbs seem way heavy for a modern 33 ft boat. Looks nice, what its price tag?


WTF this is SA so I'll comment on a boat I have known about since reading this thread. :lol: So based on my extensive 10 minutes of "research" here goes...

8100 lbs is about right for a boat of this type UNLESS you get into extensive use of exotic materials and double the cost of the boat. Probably not the target market C&C is building this boat for.

6'6" draft is a little on the deep side for our waters, Chesapeake Bay, but manageable.

The Good: Really like the tiller versus a wheel on this size boat. Really like the rig setup and non over lapping headsail. Plenty of upwind sail area and with the tiller she will be a sweet ride to drive upwind.

The Bad: She is going to suck downwind in W/L races with the fixed sprit. Only in "dog off the chain" conditions will she plane (more like surf) and you will NEVER be able to makeup the extra distance you will sail with that fixed sprit. A J/33 will kick this boat's ass in W/L races all day long. Easy fix, just add a traditional spin pole and fly your A sails from that or just run symmetrical kites. Do that and you will have a great PHRF boat. Check with your local PHRF org on what you can do with the least amount of rating hit. If and this is a huge IF you ever get a OD fleet just take the pole off the boat and you are in OD configuration, EASY!!!

If your game is point to point distance races then the fixed sprit will be better but with a boat like this I would still want the traditional pole option for when the wind is dead aft and less than 15.

Looks like she will make a very nice fast and easy to handle cruiser as well.

Besides the designers illusion that you can make a sprit/A Sails work on a traditional NON-PLANING lead mine she looks great.

So my 10 minute conclusion; looks cool!



Not sure I would say she's going to suck downwind either. Asym shapes have improved greatly over the years. Last year at Southern Bay Race Week, a J/109 won its 12 boat division in all W/L racing. The other 109 was 4th. Compeition included 2 J/36s, a Bene 36.7, Olson 29, and a Hobie 33 amongst others. I agree you could put a conventional pole on it as well, but why bother. You can be competitive with a fixed sprit in W/L PHRF racing.

#63 Hobie Dog

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:24 PM



8100 lbs seem way heavy for a modern 33 ft boat. Looks nice, what its price tag?


WTF this is SA so I'll comment on a boat I have known about since reading this thread. :lol: So based on my extensive 10 minutes of "research" here goes...

8100 lbs is about right for a boat of this type UNLESS you get into extensive use of exotic materials and double the cost of the boat. Probably not the target market C&C is building this boat for.

6'6" draft is a little on the deep side for our waters, Chesapeake Bay, but manageable.

The Good: Really like the tiller versus a wheel on this size boat. Really like the rig setup and non over lapping headsail. Plenty of upwind sail area and with the tiller she will be a sweet ride to drive upwind.

The Bad: She is going to suck downwind in W/L races with the fixed sprit. Only in "dog off the chain" conditions will she plane (more like surf) and you will NEVER be able to makeup the extra distance you will sail with that fixed sprit. A J/33 will kick this boat's ass in W/L races all day long. Easy fix, just add a traditional spin pole and fly your A sails from that or just run symmetrical kites. Do that and you will have a great PHRF boat. Check with your local PHRF org on what you can do with the least amount of rating hit. If and this is a huge IF you ever get a OD fleet just take the pole off the boat and you are in OD configuration, EASY!!!

If your game is point to point distance races then the fixed sprit will be better but with a boat like this I would still want the traditional pole option for when the wind is dead aft and less than 15.

Looks like she will make a very nice fast and easy to handle cruiser as well.

Besides the designers illusion that you can make a sprit/A Sails work on a traditional NON-PLANING lead mine she looks great.

So my 10 minute conclusion; looks cool!

You bring up some good points. I am not really sure what will make a sailboat plane, but I thought hull shape and foil design along with displacement were the keys. When I look at the specs along side the J 111, the J is heavier and a bit narrower in the beam. It does have (just guessing) at least 2' extra waterline, but that should not really matter in planing or does it. The C&C carries slightly more base sail area. The J has huge downwind sail area, not sure about the C&C, that will make a difference. From the thread that I have read on here a lot of people really think the J moves quite nice or is the J a lead mine as well.

J 111
LOA 36.50
LWL 32.70
Beam 10.80
Displacement 9,300
100% Sail Area - (rig triangles) 663
Upwind Sail Area - Class Sails 751
Downwind Sail Area - Class Sails 1,798
Max Asymmetric Spinnaker - Class 1,410
DSPL/ Length 119
SA/ DSPL Upwind 27
SA/ DSPL Downwind 65 65
CE Category A A
Engine 21 hp 21 hp.

C&C 101
LOA ........................................................ 33 0 (10.0 m)
Beam ................................................................. 10 11-1/2 (3.34 m)
Draft .............................................. 6 6 (1.98 m)
Displacement ............................................... 8100 lbs (3674 kg)
Sail area ............................................ 671 sq ft (62.3 sq m)
I ........................................................................ 44 9 (13.64 m)
J .......................................................................... 12 6 (3.81 m)
P ...................................................................... 45 (13.71 m)
E ................................................................ 14 10 (4.52 m)
Mainsail area ............................... 399 sq ft (37.06 sq m)
100% Foretriangle ............................ 272 sq ft (25.27 sq m)
Bridge clearance ............................................ 54 6 (16.61 m)
Ballast/displacement ........................................................ 40
Displacement/length ...................................................... 136


Sorry I did not intend to slam your J/111 by using the term "lead mine". I guess I should use the the term "traditional keel boat".

This topic of "planing" has been discussed in length on various threads but I think we will all agree that simply exceeding hull speed is not planing. Given the right conditions all sailboats can exceed hull speed while surfing down a wave.

My definition of planing is the boat gets up "on top" of the water and is not simply pushing the water out of the way. I feel not even all power boat plane. Take a 35' floating condo power boat with twin screws capable of hitting 20 kts with a cruising speed of around 15. Yes she is exceeding hull speed but she is not planing. She is still mostly in the water and more of a push versus on top. Then take a boat like my 20' Key West with a 140 that does 40 kts and cruises at 25. She planes and is on top of the water versus still in it. Yes this is a way vague definition however that is how sport boats and planing dinghies feel. Flat water, on top and small rudder adjustments make big differences in direction.

Simply put I have never been on a keel boat that gets up and is on top of the water like a sport boat or planning dinghy does.

#64 Hobie Dog

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:37 PM

Not sure I would say she's going to suck downwind either. Asym shapes have improved greatly over the years. Last year at Southern Bay Race Week, a J/109 won its 12 boat division in all W/L racing. The other 109 was 4th. Compeition included 2 J/36s, a Bene 36.7, Olson 29, and a Hobie 33 amongst others. I agree you could put a conventional pole on it as well, but why bother. You can be competitive with a fixed sprit in W/L PHRF racing.


Agree Asym shapes have improved greatly from when they first were introduced.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree but I still feel non planing keel boats perform better with a traditional spin pole. Of course this assumes both boats are sailed clean without spinnaker errors.

I will say that fixed sprits are less crew intensive so if you don't have the crew they will be faster than a traditional pole boat if the traditional pole boat has CF with trying to carry the kite and the sprit boat sails clean.

#65 crash

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 05:51 PM


Not sure I would say she's going to suck downwind either. Asym shapes have improved greatly over the years. Last year at Southern Bay Race Week, a J/109 won its 12 boat division in all W/L racing. The other 109 was 4th. Compeition included 2 J/36s, a Bene 36.7, Olson 29, and a Hobie 33 amongst others. I agree you could put a conventional pole on it as well, but why bother. You can be competitive with a fixed sprit in W/L PHRF racing.


Agree Asym shapes have improved greatly from when they first were introduced.

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree but I still feel non planing keel boats perform better with a traditional spin pole. Of course this assumes both boats are sailed clean without spinnaker errors.

I will say that fixed sprits are less crew intensive so if you don't have the crew they will be faster than a traditional pole boat if the traditional pole boat has CF with trying to carry the kite and the sprit boat sails clean.



Actually, I largely agree that all other things being completely equal, a displacement boat with a traditional pole would have an advantage. I think (being a retired former F-14 guy) that like ACM (dogfighting) that guy the wins in sailboat racing is the guy that makes the least number of mistakes. The advantage of the asy/fixed sprit is, as you point out crew/crew issues. So in the end I just was trying to point out that you can be "competitive." I would not try to say the aym is better or preferable, esp if you have a well trained full up crew.

In fact that's why I like fixed sprits. It reduces the number of crew I need to recruit/sail with and is more tolerant of a less experienced crew. I used to own/race a J/109, and now race an S-2 9.1. Even though the boat is 5 fts smaller, the real "crew" requirement is either even or has gone up with the 9.1. With the same numbers/level of crew, we actually did better from a results standpoint, racing the 109 then we do with the 9.1. But again that is/was due to crew/crew issues, not because asyms have an inherent performance advantage.

#66 walterbshaffer

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:05 PM

No way are the 101 & 111 comps to each other. Thats just silly.

The 101 might be the next step from the 99 though because...do I dare? Okay: in about 8 knots with a 155 up we passed a 99 with a chute up suprisingly quickly. Maybe they had kelp or other issues while our rig & sails were in perfect tune but it sure as hell wasn't the crew.

So it might be that C&C is looking to improve upon/correct that situation with this boat.

#67 damcoyote

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 06:39 PM

No way are the 101 & 111 comps to each other. Thats just silly.

The 101 might be the next step from the 99 though because...do I dare? Okay: in about 8 knots with a 155 up we passed a 99 with a chute up suprisingly quickly. Maybe they had kelp or other issues while our rig & sails were in perfect tune but it sure as hell wasn't the crew.

So it might be that C&C is looking to improve upon/correct that situation with this boat.

What point of sail?

#68 Hobie Dog

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:02 PM

Actually, I largely agree that all other things being completely equal, a displacement boat with a traditional pole would have an advantage. I think (being a retired former F-14 guy) that like ACM (dogfighting) that guy the wins in sailboat racing is the guy that makes the least number of mistakes. The advantage of the asy/fixed sprit is, as you point out crew/crew issues. So in the end I just was trying to point out that you can be "competitive." I would not try to say the aym is better or preferable, esp if you have a well trained full up crew.


We are on the same page. It would be interesting to see two well sailed 101 or 111 race each other with one with a sprit and one with a traditional pole. In W/L my money is on the traditional pole.

Don't get me wrong I really like the sprit on a sport boat. Sold my Antrim 27 last year, great boat, and will get back into the Sport Boat action but want a OD class. Not much of that action going on the Chesapeake at this point. It would be awesome if the Viper would catch on!


In fact that's why I like fixed sprits. It reduces the number of crew I need to recruit/sail with and is more tolerant of a less experienced crew. I used to own/race a J/109, and now race an S-2 9.1. Even though the boat is 5 fts smaller, the real "crew" requirement is either even or has gone up with the 9.1. With the same numbers/level of crew, we actually did better from a results standpoint, racing the 109 then we do with the 9.1. But again that is/was due to crew/crew issues, not because asyms have an inherent performance advantage.

Wow you went from a J/109 to a S-2 9.1! I guess the S-2 9.1 is a lot nicer on the wallet?

#69 crash

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 07:30 PM


Actually, I largely agree that all other things being completely equal, a displacement boat with a traditional pole would have an advantage. I think (being a retired former F-14 guy) that like ACM (dogfighting) that guy the wins in sailboat racing is the guy that makes the least number of mistakes. The advantage of the asy/fixed sprit is, as you point out crew/crew issues. So in the end I just was trying to point out that you can be "competitive." I would not try to say the aym is better or preferable, esp if you have a well trained full up crew.


We are on the same page. It would be interesting to see two well sailed 101 or 111 race each other with one with a sprit and one with a traditional pole. In W/L my money is on the traditional pole.

Don't get me wrong I really like the sprit on a sport boat. Sold my Antrim 27 last year, great boat, and will get back into the Sport Boat action but want a OD class. Not much of that action going on the Chesapeake at this point. It would be awesome if the Viper would catch on!


In fact that's why I like fixed sprits. It reduces the number of crew I need to recruit/sail with and is more tolerant of a less experienced crew. I used to own/race a J/109, and now race an S-2 9.1. Even though the boat is 5 fts smaller, the real "crew" requirement is either even or has gone up with the 9.1. With the same numbers/level of crew, we actually did better from a results standpoint, racing the 109 then we do with the 9.1. But again that is/was due to crew/crew issues, not because asyms have an inherent performance advantage.

Wow you went from a J/109 to a S-2 9.1! I guess the S-2 9.1 is a lot nicer on the wallet?


Had the 109 when my kids were middle school aged. Had recently gotten remarried, and she made as much money as me (and had a sailboat too!). Bought it being pretty sure I could sell it for close to what I bought it for if I had too. 4 years late, my wife wanted to get a PhD, and we decided to have another kid (needed some help as neither of us was 20 anymore), and my kids were rapidly approaching college age. Something had to give. So we sold the 109 just before the economy went south (lucky timing on our part). 18 months later a co-worker of my wife's was going to donate his 9.1 due to medical issues. So we bought it for what he was going to get for donating it. It had some seriously wet decks, but we knew that going in. I actually enjoyed fixing them. :blink: In many ways it does everything the 109 did. Just with a little less room (but can still sleep 7) and a little less speed. Way easier on the wallet as you say. Whie I loved/love the 109, I'm having good fun with the 9.1, and my 4 year old loves spending the night on the boat.


Speaking of OD on the bay, what about a J/70? I know its not a Viper, and is on the "tame" side of sportboat, but I'd bet better than even odds a OD fleet builds here on the bay. Plus the ramp launchable nature of it should make taking it on the road to OD events easier. I'm seriously considering one...and regulating the 9.1 to distance racing and cruising...in part to get to only need 3 or 4 to crew it...vice 6 + for the 9.1...

#70 walterbshaffer

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:04 PM


No way are the 101 & 111 comps to each other. Thats just silly.

The 101 might be the next step from the 99 though because...do I dare? Okay: in about 8 knots with a 155 up we passed a 99 with a chute up suprisingly quickly. Maybe they had kelp or other issues while our rig & sails were in perfect tune but it sure as hell wasn't the crew.

So it might be that C&C is looking to improve upon/correct that situation with this boat.

What point of sail?


Not certain about either the TWA, AWA or even the speedo but the clew of the 155 was about even with or behind the mast. The 99 was racing with full crew, I was just day sailing with one gal who might know which one is the vang and the other one doesn't.

The 99 was not happy.

#71 DEAD MONEY

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:19 PM

Cool or Homo ??

I like the dual purpose of most C&C's as I owned a 27' Mark 4 and it was a real fun boat. We now own a Soverel 33. At first glance the new C&C looks pretty cool. Comparing the 2 though it seems the C&C should go on a BIG Diet. The Keel at 6'6" will give her better upwind speed but downwind in light wind she will have some difficulty.

What's it rate?? Seriously! Is the actual cost really $200K ??

#72 crash

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:49 PM

Cool or Homo ??

I like the dual purpose of most C&C's as I owned a 27' Mark 4 and it was a real fun boat. We now own a Soverel 33. At first glance the new C&C looks pretty cool. Comparing the 2 though it seems the C&C should go on a BIG Diet. The Keel at 6'6" will give her better upwind speed but downwind in light wind she will have some difficulty.

What's it rate?? Seriously! Is the actual cost really $200K ??


$200k was a pure wild ass guess...but...Schock Harbor 30 daysailor plus is $159k base boat. J/97 was around $185k a couple years ago. J/111 is $250 plus base. Boats are low volume/high labor cost things. So yeah, I'd bet at least $200k. Sov 33 was always a pretty light boat. J/97 is heavier at 8600lbs. J/111 is 9300lbs, so 8100 isn't bad. Again, think there was an eye towards not getting treated too harshly under IRC...

I'd guess it'd PHRF around 70 or so...maybe 75? A J-33 PHRFs at 84...same displacement, not quite as much sail area and a shorter waterline then the 101. Again, another purely wild ass guess....

#73 port tack

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 12:31 AM


Cool or Homo ??

I like the dual purpose of most C&C's as I owned a 27' Mark 4 and it was a real fun boat. We now own a Soverel 33. At first glance the new C&C looks pretty cool. Comparing the 2 though it seems the C&C should go on a BIG Diet. The Keel at 6'6" will give her better upwind speed but downwind in light wind she will have some difficulty.

What's it rate?? Seriously! Is the actual cost really $200K ??


$200k was a pure wild ass guess...but...Schock Harbor 30 daysailor plus is $159k base boat. J/97 was around $185k a couple years ago. J/111 is $250 plus base. Boats are low volume/high labor cost things. So yeah, I'd bet at least $200k. Sov 33 was always a pretty light boat. J/97 is heavier at 8600lbs. J/111 is 9300lbs, so 8100 isn't bad. Again, think there was an eye towards not getting treated too harshly under IRC...

I'd guess it'd PHRF around 70 or so...maybe 75? A J-33 PHRFs at 84...same displacement, not quite as much sail area and a shorter waterline then the 101. Again, another purely wild ass guess....



Heavier and Shorter than a J 105 which rates 78-84 PHRF. Unless its got some kind of massive kite I would think the rating would be 84-96 range. Just my wild ass guess.

#74 walterbshaffer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 02:49 AM

weight & waterline are NOT the only factors in a rating.

too, the prevailing wind conditions of area the boat is rated for/in will affect the number.

comp the stats (disp/sa etc) vs. the 10R, make your adjustments and it's likely to be right around there.

#75 43577

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 04:35 AM

I kinda like it. *shrugs*

#76 crash

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:17 AM



Cool or Homo ??

I like the dual purpose of most C&C's as I owned a 27' Mark 4 and it was a real fun boat. We now own a Soverel 33. At first glance the new C&C looks pretty cool. Comparing the 2 though it seems the C&C should go on a BIG Diet. The Keel at 6'6" will give her better upwind speed but downwind in light wind she will have some difficulty.

What's it rate?? Seriously! Is the actual cost really $200K ??


$200k was a pure wild ass guess...but...Schock Harbor 30 daysailor plus is $159k base boat. J/97 was around $185k a couple years ago. J/111 is $250 plus base. Boats are low volume/high labor cost things. So yeah, I'd bet at least $200k. Sov 33 was always a pretty light boat. J/97 is heavier at 8600lbs. J/111 is 9300lbs, so 8100 isn't bad. Again, think there was an eye towards not getting treated too harshly under IRC...

I'd guess it'd PHRF around 70 or so...maybe 75? A J-33 PHRFs at 84...same displacement, not quite as much sail area and a shorter waterline then the 101. Again, another purely wild ass guess....



Heavier and Shorter than a J 105 which rates 78-84 PHRF. Unless its got some kind of massive kite I would think the rating would be 84-96 range. Just my wild ass guess.


Heavier yes, but not really shorter. No overhangs, so almost its all waterline. Has almost the same Disp/len ratio 136 to 135 for J/105, yet 93 sqft more upwind sail area. SA/Disp (upwind) is the same too. I'd bet less wetted surface area (look a difference in the keels, So I say slightly faster than a 105 as well. But I'll change mine to 75-80 based on similarities to 105s numbers.

#77 Hobie Dog

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:01 PM



Actually, I largely agree that all other things being completely equal, a displacement boat with a traditional pole would have an advantage. I think (being a retired former F-14 guy) that like ACM (dogfighting) that guy the wins in sailboat racing is the guy that makes the least number of mistakes. The advantage of the asy/fixed sprit is, as you point out crew/crew issues. So in the end I just was trying to point out that you can be "competitive." I would not try to say the aym is better or preferable, esp if you have a well trained full up crew.


We are on the same page. It would be interesting to see two well sailed 101 or 111 race each other with one with a sprit and one with a traditional pole. In W/L my money is on the traditional pole.

Don't get me wrong I really like the sprit on a sport boat. Sold my Antrim 27 last year, great boat, and will get back into the Sport Boat action but want a OD class. Not much of that action going on the Chesapeake at this point. It would be awesome if the Viper would catch on!


In fact that's why I like fixed sprits. It reduces the number of crew I need to recruit/sail with and is more tolerant of a less experienced crew. I used to own/race a J/109, and now race an S-2 9.1. Even though the boat is 5 fts smaller, the real "crew" requirement is either even or has gone up with the 9.1. With the same numbers/level of crew, we actually did better from a results standpoint, racing the 109 then we do with the 9.1. But again that is/was due to crew/crew issues, not because asyms have an inherent performance advantage.

Wow you went from a J/109 to a S-2 9.1! I guess the S-2 9.1 is a lot nicer on the wallet?


Had the 109 when my kids were middle school aged. Had recently gotten remarried, and she made as much money as me (and had a sailboat too!). Bought it being pretty sure I could sell it for close to what I bought it for if I had too. 4 years late, my wife wanted to get a PhD, and we decided to have another kid (needed some help as neither of us was 20 anymore), and my kids were rapidly approaching college age. Something had to give. So we sold the 109 just before the economy went south (lucky timing on our part). 18 months later a co-worker of my wife's was going to donate his 9.1 due to medical issues. So we bought it for what he was going to get for donating it. It had some seriously wet decks, but we knew that going in. I actually enjoyed fixing them. :blink: In many ways it does everything the 109 did. Just with a little less room (but can still sleep 7) and a little less speed. Way easier on the wallet as you say. Whie I loved/love the 109, I'm having good fun with the 9.1, and my 4 year old loves spending the night on the boat.


Speaking of OD on the bay, what about a J/70? I know its not a Viper, and is on the "tame" side of sportboat, but I'd bet better than even odds a OD fleet builds here on the bay. Plus the ramp launchable nature of it should make taking it on the road to OD events easier. I'm seriously considering one...and regulating the 9.1 to distance racing and cruising...in part to get to only need 3 or 4 to crew it...vice 6 + for the 9.1...


Yea the J/70 does look interesting but at what cost? And the Viper is a faster boat with only 3 crew. I know I should just stop bitching and go buy a Viper... :lol:

Wonder what the J/70 is going to do to the local Annapolis fleet of J/80's? We have two down at SMSA. Seems like they are just gaining momentum getting the class going with OD racing and then the J/70 comes along. The lift keel is great for lifts, ramps and hoists so that is a major plus. And the deck stepped carbon rig is probably easy to handle...

#78 Schnick

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

Sprit boats don't need to plane to be competitive in most areas. My normal ride is a Melges 32 and we don't have it lit up THAT often. Possibly the best PHRF boat in my neighborhood would be the J109. 109s don't plane, they have tons of rocker and a big A kite. They are very very tough to beat in 7 knots TWS which is probably most days here. This C&C looks to have tons of rocker, a big A kite, and probably won't plane, but if it goes like a 2' shorter J109 and rates any slower than the mid 70s it should do fine.

#79 port tack

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 05:47 PM




Actually, I largely agree that all other things being completely equal, a displacement boat with a traditional pole would have an advantage. I think (being a retired former F-14 guy) that like ACM (dogfighting) that guy the wins in sailboat racing is the guy that makes the least number of mistakes. The advantage of the asy/fixed sprit is, as you point out crew/crew issues. So in the end I just was trying to point out that you can be "competitive." I would not try to say the aym is better or preferable, esp if you have a well trained full up crew.


We are on the same page. It would be interesting to see two well sailed 101 or 111 race each other with one with a sprit and one with a traditional pole. In W/L my money is on the traditional pole.

Don't get me wrong I really like the sprit on a sport boat. Sold my Antrim 27 last year, great boat, and will get back into the Sport Boat action but want a OD class. Not much of that action going on the Chesapeake at this point. It would be awesome if the Viper would catch on!


In fact that's why I like fixed sprits. It reduces the number of crew I need to recruit/sail with and is more tolerant of a less experienced crew. I used to own/race a J/109, and now race an S-2 9.1. Even though the boat is 5 fts smaller, the real "crew" requirement is either even or has gone up with the 9.1. With the same numbers/level of crew, we actually did better from a results standpoint, racing the 109 then we do with the 9.1. But again that is/was due to crew/crew issues, not because asyms have an inherent performance advantage.

Wow you went from a J/109 to a S-2 9.1! I guess the S-2 9.1 is a lot nicer on the wallet?


Had the 109 when my kids were middle school aged. Had recently gotten remarried, and she made as much money as me (and had a sailboat too!). Bought it being pretty sure I could sell it for close to what I bought it for if I had too. 4 years late, my wife wanted to get a PhD, and we decided to have another kid (needed some help as neither of us was 20 anymore), and my kids were rapidly approaching college age. Something had to give. So we sold the 109 just before the economy went south (lucky timing on our part). 18 months later a co-worker of my wife's was going to donate his 9.1 due to medical issues. So we bought it for what he was going to get for donating it. It had some seriously wet decks, but we knew that going in. I actually enjoyed fixing them. :blink: In many ways it does everything the 109 did. Just with a little less room (but can still sleep 7) and a little less speed. Way easier on the wallet as you say. Whie I loved/love the 109, I'm having good fun with the 9.1, and my 4 year old loves spending the night on the boat.


Speaking of OD on the bay, what about a J/70? I know its not a Viper, and is on the "tame" side of sportboat, but I'd bet better than even odds a OD fleet builds here on the bay. Plus the ramp launchable nature of it should make taking it on the road to OD events easier. I'm seriously considering one...and regulating the 9.1 to distance racing and cruising...in part to get to only need 3 or 4 to crew it...vice 6 + for the 9.1...


Yea the J/70 does look interesting but at what cost? And the Viper is a faster boat with only 3 crew. I know I should just stop bitching and go buy a Viper... :lol:

Wonder what the J/70 is going to do to the local Annapolis fleet of J/80's? We have two down at SMSA. Seems like they are just gaining momentum getting the class going with OD racing and then the J/70 comes along. The lift keel is great for lifts, ramps and hoists so that is a major plus. And the deck stepped carbon rig is probably easy to handle...


Coming from a guy you has owned a few sportboats including a Antrim 27, get a Viper! Very impressed with the boat. Fun as hell to sail. With the extra money saved, will be doing at least 2 away regattas.

#80 crash

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:48 PM


Yea the J/70 does look interesting but at what cost? And the Viper is a faster boat with only 3 crew. I know I should just stop bitching and go buy a Viper... :lol:

Wonder what the J/70 is going to do to the local Annapolis fleet of J/80's? We have two down at SMSA. Seems like they are just gaining momentum getting the class going with OD racing and then the J/70 comes along. The lift keel is great for lifts, ramps and hoists so that is a major plus. And the deck stepped carbon rig is probably easy to handle...


Coming from a guy you has owned a few sportboats including a Antrim 27, get a Viper! Very impressed with the boat. Fun as hell to sail. With the extra money saved, will be doing at least 2 away regattas.


Yeah, but unfortunately who does he race it against until those away regattas? Down here in Hampton, should I get the j/70 (still a big if), I figure I'm going to be racing it PHRF most of the time and only doing OD when/if I travel...

#81 crash

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 06:53 PM

Yea the J/70 does look interesting but at what cost? And the Viper is a faster boat with only 3 crew. I know I should just stop bitching and go buy a Viper... :lol:

Wonder what the J/70 is going to do to the local Annapolis fleet of J/80's? We have two down at SMSA. Seems like they are just gaining momentum getting the class going with OD racing and then the J/70 comes along. The lift keel is great for lifts, ramps and hoists so that is a major plus. And the deck stepped carbon rig is probably easy to handle...



Fleet price right now is $45k with sails and trailer. Which is pretty darn good actually. Didn't realize you were an SMSA guy. Raced there for 2 years on FC. My 9.1 is the old "Benchmark"

#82 midfleet

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 05:40 PM

http://c-cyachts.com...01/gallery.html


The 101 is out in the open now. I think there's some cool features, like the pole chute in the foredeck. Will be interesting to see how she performs and if it can breath some new life into the brand.

#83 Hobie Dog

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:02 PM

Coming from a guy you has owned a few sportboats including a Antrim 27, get a Viper! Very impressed with the boat. Fun as hell to sail. With the extra money saved, will be doing at least 2 away regattas.


I used to own an Antrim 27 as well! Great boats but you need to coordinate the crew for them.

Sailed the VX-One a few weeks ago, boat felt great and at ~30K all up it is definitely less than the J. Then we also have the Melges 20, probably about the same price as the J. The K6 looks really cool and less money than the VX. And then we have the Viper with an established class. If the goal is OD racing then we really have too many choices. If the goal is a PHRF type Sport Boat class for boats 19-22' then we don't. Just waiting for either to get going on the Chesapeake as I am just not into driving much more that 5 hours each way to go racing in a weekend regatta.

Screwpile got a Sport Boat class going for the larger boats in 2009 and 2010 but then it fell apart.

#84 Hobie Dog

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:03 PM



Yea the J/70 does look interesting but at what cost? And the Viper is a faster boat with only 3 crew. I know I should just stop bitching and go buy a Viper... :lol:

Wonder what the J/70 is going to do to the local Annapolis fleet of J/80's? We have two down at SMSA. Seems like they are just gaining momentum getting the class going with OD racing and then the J/70 comes along. The lift keel is great for lifts, ramps and hoists so that is a major plus. And the deck stepped carbon rig is probably easy to handle...



Fleet price right now is $45k with sails and trailer. Which is pretty darn good actually. Didn't realize you were an SMSA guy. Raced there for 2 years on FC. My 9.1 is the old "Benchmark"


I have raced with FC as well... Probably have met before...

#85 Honey_Badger

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:05 PM

http://c-cyachts.com/brochure/content/cc/models/101/gallery.html


The 101 is out in the open now. I think there's some cool features, like the pole chute in the foredeck. Will be interesting to see how she performs and if it can breath some new life into the brand.


Hope I'm not letting the kitty out of the bag....but is the 101 the new boat that is making an appearance at Edgewater for T-10 North Americans?

#86 Paul Romain Tober

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:11 PM


Interesting take on a modern C & C design: http://www.c-cyachts...a2-7c101f99ea4b

Looks a little quirky to my eye, but has some "in person" potential a la Porsche Panamera. Its no sporty but if my family can sleep confortably at the lake, then I just might be interested. I'm just happy to see the new owners moving the brand forward.


define "homo" for me would you?


homo = cool

#87 DogWillBark

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:51 PM


http://c-cyachts.com/brochure/content/cc/models/101/gallery.html


The 101 is out in the open now. I think there's some cool features, like the pole chute in the foredeck. Will be interesting to see how she performs and if it can breath some new life into the brand.


Hope I'm not letting the kitty out of the bag....but is the 101 the new boat that is making an appearance at Edgewater for T-10 North Americans?


See tonight if she's on the list for LCR at her home club...

#88 movable ballast

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Posted 19 July 2012 - 06:54 PM

bit of a porker at 8100lbs... might be sticky in the light

#89 DogWillBark

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 02:26 AM

1342723899[/url]' post='3792502']

1342721108[/url]' post='3792445']

1342719613[/url]' post='3792411']
http://c-cyachts.com/brochure/content/cc/models/101/gallery.html


The 101 is out in the open now. I think there's some cool features, like the pole chute in the foredeck. Will be interesting to see how she performs and if it can breath some new life into the brand.


Hope I'm not letting the kitty out of the bag....but is the 101 the new boat that is making an appearance at Edgewater for T-10 North Americans?


See tonight if she's on the list for LCR at her home club...


Confirmed...boat will be racing this weekend. Rating a 78.

#90 SR CHIEF (RET)

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:01 AM

1342723899[/url]' post='3792502']

1342721108[/url]' post='3792445']

1342719613[/url]' post='3792411']
http://c-cyachts.com/brochure/content/cc/models/101/gallery.html


The 101 is out in the open now. I think there's some cool features, like the pole chute in the foredeck. Will be interesting to see how she performs and if it can breath some new life into the brand.


Hope I'm not letting the kitty out of the bag....but is the 101 the new boat that is making an appearance at Edgewater for T-10 North Americans?


See tonight if she's on the list for LCR at her home club...


Confirmed...boat will be racing this weekend. Rating a 78.

Too fooking heavy...

#91 Swimsailor

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Posted 20 July 2012 - 03:55 AM

Lighter, longer, deeper and more SA than the 99, which wasn't the slowest boat on our lake. I think it has some promise.

http://www.c-cyachts...01/gallery.html

#92 TomMcNeill

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 01:12 AM

1342753304[/url]' post='3793008']

1342751179[/url]' post='3792969']

1342723899[/url]' post='3792502']

1342721108[/url]' post='3792445']

1342719613[/url]' post='3792411']
http://c-cyachts.com/brochure/content/cc/models/101/gallery.html


The 101 is out in the open now. I think there's some cool features, like the pole chute in the foredeck. Will be interesting to see how she performs and if it can breath some new life into the brand.


Hope I'm not letting the kitty out of the bag....but is the 101 the new boat that is making an appearance at Edgewater for T-10 North Americans?


See tonight if she's on the list for LCR at her home club...


Confirmed...boat will be racing this weekend. Rating a 78.

Too fooking heavy...


Senior, you and I have the same passion for this game and have discussed same at the Bay more than once, give the boat a chance. Sailing 40.8 miles on her shakedown in under 4 hours with a peak over 17 under main only suggests maybe she has the power needed. Tied for first on day one of her first regatta in under 8 knots breeze, I'm not worried. She was never intended to be a Melges, rather a sporty yacht that is comfortable and easily managed. Would love to show you the boat at any time and can be reached at tmcneill@tartan-ccyachts.com

#93 Thad

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 03:08 AM

Saw the 101 out on the course today and it was really moving well in the light and shifty stuff.
Looks like it will be a great addition to the C&C line.

#94 walterbshaffer

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 05:20 PM

Senior, you and I have the same passion for this game and have discussed same at the Bay more than once, give the boat a chance. Sailing 40.8 miles on her shakedown in under 4 hours with a peak over 17 under main only suggests maybe she has the power needed. Tied for first on day one of her first regatta in under 8 knots breeze, I'm not worried. She was never intended to be a Melges, rather a sporty yacht that is comfortable and easily managed. Would love to show you the boat at any time and can be reached at tmcneill@tartan-ccyachts.com


Since you seem to know something about the boat what is the ballast (not displacement) /SA ratio?

#95 Streetwise

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 05:56 PM



Senior, you and I have the same passion for this game and have discussed same at the Bay more than once, give the boat a chance. Sailing 40.8 miles on her shakedown in under 4 hours with a peak over 17 under main only suggests maybe she has the power needed. Tied for first on day one of her first regatta in under 8 knots breeze, I'm not worried. She was never intended to be a Melges, rather a sporty yacht that is comfortable and easily managed. Would love to show you the boat at any time and can be reached at tmcneill@tartan-ccyachts.com


Since you seem to know something about the boat what is the ballast (not displacement) /SA ratio?

He would be the designer of the boat.

#96 Swimsailor

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Posted 22 July 2012 - 10:28 PM

Tom, any pics from the first sail?

#97 DogWillBark

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Posted 23 July 2012 - 12:19 AM

Having sailed against TM for years, I can tell you he knows what makes a great boat. The 101 looked solid all weekend with a great showing in a tough class. The boat looked fast up/down all weekend. Considering they were working with a cruising chute and limited sail inventory, they kicked ass. Say what you will. I'm sure Tom would welcome a visit to view/sail the boat.

#98 dogedog

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Posted 24 July 2012 - 01:32 AM

Boat looked great out there guys! Nice job. Good to see a local sailor take the design somewhere like days of old c&c pedigree. I think ou will sell a lot.

#99 arr4ws

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:10 PM

saw hull 2 in newport. Loved it!

#100 jww

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 02:28 PM

saw hull 2 in newport. Loved it!

It is a very nice boat and witnessing it out on the course and early results it goes.Well done to the C&C team.




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