Jump to content


Santana 30/30 GP performance info and known issues


  • Please log in to reply
57 replies to this topic

#1 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:11 PM

I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks

#2 Tejano

Tejano

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 527 posts
  • Location:Deep in the Heart of Texas
  • Interests:Sailing, sailing, more sailing.

Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:21 PM

Own on for couple years, great light air. Brooching beatch in a blow.

#3 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,993 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:32 PM

Light air it is a good boat.

In strong wind it just doesn't have the stability to power upwind (you really need to stack the weather rail with 7 bodies) and it's too heavy to take off downwind.

Does it have the elliptical rudder and keel? This helps extend the rage of the boat into medium winds.

#4 pasta514

pasta514

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 97 posts

Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:52 PM

I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks


Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.

#5 pasta514

pasta514

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 97 posts

Posted 30 October 2011 - 08:53 PM

Own on for couple years, great light air. Brooching beatch in a blow.

linky?

#6 DoRag

DoRag

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,919 posts
  • Location:Where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:00 AM


I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks


Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.


MORC? Really?

#7 pasta514

pasta514

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 97 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 02:00 AM



I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks


Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.


MORC? Really?


Yes... ? You think otherwise?

#8 Hitchhiker

Hitchhiker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,676 posts
  • Location:Saquo-Pilia Hensha

Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:30 AM



I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks


Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.


MORC? Really?


You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.

#9 Capt Broach

Capt Broach

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 9 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:48 AM

Cal 9.2 at 186? Is it sailing without a headsail? Nothing on earth should be able to beat a Cal 9.2 at 186 in light air.

#10 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,993 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:45 AM

MORC? Really?

That's what Bruce Nelson told me.

#11 Edake

Edake

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 546 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 07:22 AM


MORC? Really?

That's what Bruce Nelson told me.

Also sailed under JOG in Oz. I believe Street Fighter was one. Good performer in light to medium airs but the Dubios Half Tonners were better in stronger winds e.g. Public Nuisance and Beach Inspector.

#12 MikeR

MikeR

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,348 posts
  • Location:Bayside, NY
  • Interests:Own a Pearson 10M

Posted 31 October 2011 - 10:12 AM

Cal 9.2 at 186? Is it sailing without a headsail? Nothing on earth should be able to beat a Cal 9.2 at 186 in light air.


Where? Our Cal 9.2 was 171 about 10 years ago in WLIS.


Cheers,

MikeR



#13 musicman

musicman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 531 posts
  • Location:Waterford CT

Posted 31 October 2011 - 11:21 AM

Yes, designed for MORC racing. Great in light air as said, OK in a breeze.
Sailed against 2 over the years, GP & RC versions.
http://www.wdschock....s3030_index.php

#14 eerie sailor

eerie sailor

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,350 posts
  • Location:DEEETROIT

Posted 31 October 2011 - 12:15 PM

I've sailed on a gp version quite a bit in both MORC & PHRF. Pretty good all around boat and it does like light air a lot. PHRF rating on lake Erie 117. I might have a old set of polars. I'll look around.
Attached File  pigscow1.jpg   37.93K   133 downloads

Attached File  testrt.jpg   89.2K   126 downloads

#15 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,571 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:43 PM



I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks


Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.


MORC? Really?


Let me guess, you long boarded yours, and made it plane like a J105.

#16 soak_ed

soak_ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,953 posts
  • Location:Poland

Posted 31 October 2011 - 01:57 PM




I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks


Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.


MORC? Really?


You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.


DoRag is pretty thick when it comes to anything.




#17 DoRag

DoRag

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,919 posts
  • Location:Where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:03 PM





I'm looking into purchasing a Santana 30/30 GP. The majority of what I've read indicates the boat to be a great light wind PHRF racer. I've also read that there weren't very many of these made (40 GP's and 40 PCs I think). I've been able to find info on the WD Shock website and sites like SailingJoy regarding the rig and displacement. I have not been able to find much on polars, known issues, upgrades, etc., similar to whats on the Soverel 33 site. The Santana 30/30 site appears to be defunct. Does anyone have sources for this info? As far performance, would I be close using data from something like a j-30?

My hope is that it would be competitive against a B-25, J-35, Express 37, J-105 in mostly light wind. I currently race a Catalina 30, PHRF 189 (Ewgaad right?) and struggle to compete with a Cal 9.2 (186), thunderbird 26 (195), catalina 27 (222) in anything less 8 knots.

Thanks


Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.


MORC? Really?


You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.


DoRag is pretty thick when it comes to anything.



You been served yet?

#18 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,697 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 31 October 2011 - 03:04 PM


Cal 9.2 at 186? Is it sailing without a headsail? Nothing on earth should be able to beat a Cal 9.2 at 186 in light air.


Where? Our Cal 9.2 was 171 about 10 years ago in WLIS.


Cheers,

MikeR

That's because you must have been racing against someone on the PHRF comm, from western LIS ;)

#19 Kenny Dumas

Kenny Dumas

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 670 posts
  • Location:Oregon

Posted 31 October 2011 - 04:42 PM

Raced one lots in PNW in the Performance 30 fleet: S2 9.1, Olson 911, and J30. All very similar speed except the J30 is off the pace in light and medium. 30/30 hates weight on the bow and requires more attention to trim than Js, but rewards the extra effort. Good boat to elevate your game on.

#20 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:32 PM

Thanks all for the no-BS info. I'm curious about the cal 9.2 comments. I've attached a basic numerical comparison of the cal 9.2, santana 30/30, and my catalina 30 based on dimensional data from http://sailboatdata.com/, formulas from http://dan.pfeiffer....boat/ratios.htm, and PNW actual PHRF numbers (the sail area for my catalina is actual). Dimensionally, the 9.2 and the 3030 appear to be similar and I know I'm not accounting for everying in the design of the two boats, what would make the 3030 so much faster (or the 9.2 slower)?

Attached Files



#21 DoRag

DoRag

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,919 posts
  • Location:Where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted 31 October 2011 - 05:59 PM

Thanks all for the no-BS info. I'm curious about the cal 9.2 comments. I've attached a basic numerical comparison of the cal 9.2, santana 30/30, and my catalina 30 based on dimensional data from http://sailboatdata.com/, formulas from http://dan.pfeiffer....boat/ratios.htm, and PNW actual PHRF numbers (the sail area for my catalina is actual). Dimensionally, the 9.2 and the 3030 appear to be similar and I know I'm not accounting for everying in the design of the two boats, what would make the 3030 so much faster (or the 9.2 slower)?


I think the Cat30 was also designed for MORC......

#22 soak_ed

soak_ed

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,953 posts
  • Location:Poland

Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:01 PM








Was designed for MORC in it's day. Other comments seem spot on. Relative competitiveness will depend on prevailing wind and weather conditions.


MORC? Really?


You're pretty thick when it comes to yacht racing.


DoRag is pretty thick when it comes to anything.



You been served yet?


No, thanks for asking. I'll have fries with that please.

#23 SailRacer

SailRacer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,081 posts

Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:27 PM

I raced a few times on a 30/30 owned by the late Carmine Qualio in the famed EBYRA Wed night races.

The boat really seemed to clean up. Not sure what her rating # or hull # was.

Sail safe

#24 sailman

sailman

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,810 posts
  • Location:Portsmouth, RI

Posted 31 October 2011 - 06:56 PM

I raced a few times on a 30/30 owned by the late Carmine Qualio in the famed EBYRA Wed night races.

The boat really seemed to clean up. Not sure what her rating # or hull # was.

Sail safe


That was the cruiser version. We briefly had a GP version at Maritime that I raced in the EBYRA fall series, did fairly well with it. It's a handful in a breeze going uphill.

#25 Damaged Goods

Damaged Goods

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,614 posts
  • Location:1600 Penn Ave
  • Interests:Community organizing.

Posted 31 October 2011 - 07:19 PM

Hey Darkie: the Santana 30/30 GP I owned had the upgrade elliptical keel / rudder. It appeared no faster or slower than its identical twin with the factory blades (hulls 15/16). If you use the boat for what it was designed to--lite to moderate winds, offshore in a Pacific swell, she does great. If you try racing a fractional J/29 in winds over 18 and chop, you're gonna get you arse handed to you every-time. Not a good boat in winds over 12 knots, IMHO. Personally, other than the cool deck layout and diesel inboard, a J27 is better boat all the way around.

#26 ROXC&C29

ROXC&C29

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 115 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 31 October 2011 - 09:46 PM

back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!

Attached Files



#27 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 12:34 AM

back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!


I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?

#28 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,993 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:00 AM

I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?

I sailed on them before the GP came out. It was the PC version. Full comfortable CRUISE-ABLE interior.

The cockpit is good enough and hiking out is made easier by "ramps" which go to the same height as the toe-rail so you don't get your circulation cut off.

#29 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,571 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 01:27 AM


back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!


I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?


Having sailed both a Sov 33 and Tuna 30/30, it is fair to say the 33 is a bit more painful, mostly because it takes a massive number of people on a 33 just for rail meat, and the whole boat gets really crowded. They are very different boats, but have their attractive features, just depends what you want. 30/30 is a good all around boat, especially for the money.

#30 usa1136

usa1136

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 149 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 11:37 AM

Things to look for...

- As with all boats, Leaking chainplates and ritten bulkhead below.

- remove seahood as it is attached with screws into core

- remove the two ports near the cockpit floor. If they are not sealed correctly they will slowly rot out below and then Ionto thexockpit floor

- no sump so if not installed you willneed to find a very low profile bildge pump (whale)

- get rid of the old backstay system and replace with a cascading system

- stantion bases at the rail side have little to no core below. You will need to remove them, revert, install larger backing plates on top and bottom.

- In anything over 7 knots you need full crew weight.

- if the boat has a lexan hatch, replace it with a fiberglass o ne. The mfg still sells them, Lexan one breaks easily.

#31 ROXC&C29

ROXC&C29

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 115 posts
  • Location:Texas

Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:06 PM

the 3030 is soooo easy to get around on. the cockpit is great, driver sits aft of the traveler in fantasy land! just step out of the cockpit and your on deck, no climbing over anything.

Attached Files



#32 DoRag

DoRag

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,919 posts
  • Location:Where the sun doesn't shine.

Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:13 PM



back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!


I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?


Having sailed both a Sov 33 and Tuna 30/30, it is fair to say the 33 is a bit more painful, mostly because it takes a massive number of people on a 33 just for rail meat, and the whole boat gets really crowded. They are very different boats, but have their attractive features, just depends what you want. 30/30 is a good all around boat, especially for the money.


Do the class rules allow for longboarding the hull?

#33 sunseeker

sunseeker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,571 posts

Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:26 PM




back to original post. I owned hull number 41 for 6 years down in Lake Grapevine Texas. It was/is a great boat. raced against J80's, Olson 30's at twice the displacement. She (ROXANNE) rated 117 and we were very competitive, takes lots of folks and lots of booze for those folks to come back. It was a handfull in big wind. We took it to Galveston and did Harvest Moon Regatta, 150 miles down the coast from Galveston to Port Aransas. In 05 finished in 22 hours all downwind, in 07 took 31 hours, downwind and very little of it. The boat was a blast upwind in big wind. When you turned the corner it all changed!! I had no major problems with the boat, it was a great boat to load up with pretty girls and go sailing, drink as much as we could, and then drive home. There will never be a summer like 05!


I've heard the term "pain box" used to describe a soverel 33 cockpit. The santana looks a little more comfortable. Would say the deck and cockpit layout works pretty well?


Having sailed both a Sov 33 and Tuna 30/30, it is fair to say the 33 is a bit more painful, mostly because it takes a massive number of people on a 33 just for rail meat, and the whole boat gets really crowded. They are very different boats, but have their attractive features, just depends what you want. 30/30 is a good all around boat, especially for the money.


Do the class rules allow for longboarding the hull?


Does the class exist? If not, then no rules, so longboard away. And even if the class does exist but the boat is not going to race class, then go ahead and longboard.

That said, has any boat ever come out of Schock that didn't need longboarding? Ask a certain incoming commodore of a certain club in Newport Beach how much money she spent on having her keel faired because it was asymetrical, and that was after figuring out is was set off center,as well as her rudder which was not plumb to the centerline.

So, in general, yes Schock build has some known quality issues which I should have mentioned in my first post.

#34 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,993 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 02 November 2011 - 08:28 PM

Short story about that.

The Schock 35 was derived from the Santana 35 by taking a Santana 35 hull and laying out a more plumb bow, then fairing pretty much straight lines to the new bow from the tangent points. The mold was made from that. So any fairness issues on the Santana 35 show up on the Schock 35.

The very visible planking lines on the S35s are due to the fact that the final fairing of the plug was completed too late in the afternoon to start the mold that day. The plug sat overnight and the mold was started up in the morning. Overnight the plug contracted in the coolness of the night and expanded again in the warmth of the new day. It also picked up some moisture from the night air.

The mold-release, gel-coat and layup were started without going over and re-fairing the hull so the results of that extra moisture and the contraction and expansion show up as the very prominent planking seams in the finished product.

The Schock 35 successfully addressed the shortcomings of the Santana 35 and went on to become a successful one-design and PHRF racer. At the peak of the class popularity the factory was running at full capacity to fulfill orders. It doesn't surprise me that some hull numbers were assembled a little more sloppy than others.

#35 SoAPieceOfStringWalksIntoABar...

SoAPieceOfStringWalksIntoABar...

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 601 posts
  • Location:N E MO

Posted 03 November 2011 - 05:20 PM

Things to look for...

- As with all boats, Leaking chainplates and ritten bulkhead below.

- remove seahood as it is attached with screws into core

- remove the two ports near the cockpit floor. If they are not sealed correctly they will slowly rot out below and then Ionto thexockpit floor

- no sump so if not installed you willneed to find a very low profile bildge pump (whale)

- get rid of the old backstay system and replace with a cascading system

- stantion bases at the rail side have little to no core below. You will need to remove them, revert, install larger backing plates on top and bottom.

- In anything over 7 knots you need full crew weight.

- if the boat has a lexan hatch, replace it with a fiberglass o ne. The mfg still sells them, Lexan one breaks easily.


And (based on what worked for a PC)-
-put the main halyard clutch on the mast, head high
-aim the other three clutches toward center, put a single sheave line deflector at aft center of hood, and remove the two extra winches now no longer needed
-get rid of the morc-style check stays on the cabin top, lead them to the aft corners of the boat and then forward to the secondaries
-the main trav should be a continuous loop, and double-ending the fine tune worked well

#36 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:30 PM

Thanks for all the help and PMs from everyone. Here's the boat the boat I'm looking at.
http://www.yachtworl...boat_id=2320141

#37 Gong Show

Gong Show

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 322 posts
  • Location:The Campbell, BC, Canada

Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:38 PM

Thanks for all the help and PMs from everyone. Here's the boat the boat I'm looking at.
http://www.yachtworl...boat_id=2320141


Hee haw!! I skippered this boat before the major overhaul at blackline.
Good to see the keel bolt issue has been remedied(at least that what the pics look like)
Lots of fun on that boat.
Looks like it has newer instrumentation also. We had a tacktick on it.
Looks like much newer sails than our program enjoyed.

Things for the surveyor:
Check the keel bolts!
Diesel tank integrity.

Did I mention how much fun we had on that boat? Awesome!

GS

#38 Kaptainkriz

Kaptainkriz

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,961 posts
  • Location:Chesapeake Bay / Potomac River
  • Interests:Sailing, duh!
    Tanzer 25 #28, Akoni
    Capri 30 #11, Rock Lobster (sold)
    http://www.tqci.net/~jkriz/Tanzer25.html

Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:04 AM

30/30 on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item25697754fe

#39 Damaged Goods

Damaged Goods

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,614 posts
  • Location:1600 Penn Ave
  • Interests:Community organizing.

Posted 18 November 2011 - 01:22 AM

Dude, its already overpriced @ $1750!

#40 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,993 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 18 November 2011 - 06:32 AM

30/30 on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1982-WD-Schock-30ft-Cruiser-Stk-210569-NO-RESERVE-/160683218174?pt=Sailboats&hash=item25697754fe

Hey! I didn't give them permission to use my interior drawing!
And why does it say cars4causes on it?

#41 SoAPieceOfStringWalksIntoABar...

SoAPieceOfStringWalksIntoABar...

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 601 posts
  • Location:N E MO

Posted 18 November 2011 - 08:12 PM

30/30 on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/...=item25697754fe


Had shit tons of fun on that boat until I sold it in 2009. It's got a nicely faired keel, (had?) a pretty nifty rigging setup, had a rebuilt, lighter (declared to PH, thank you) motor put in in '08, and it all worked in '09. Sucks to see it dumped to a donation outfit, but that's the way things go I guess.
Attached File  DSCF1510.jpg   109.73K   57 downloads
Attached File  2008Midwinters.jpg   86.58K   50 downloads

#42 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 23 November 2011 - 02:38 AM

Winning bid=$6,751.50... Wow

#43 Somebody Else

Somebody Else

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,993 posts
  • Location:Southern California
  • Interests:Shootings, just like HotRod!

Posted 23 November 2011 - 04:24 AM

I wonder if the buyer will use it or flip it.

#44 Chunks Ahoy

Chunks Ahoy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 192 posts
  • Location:Everson, WA

Posted 24 November 2011 - 06:21 PM

Attached is the Ullman tuning guide I pulled from the old website from back when Ullman was the cats ass for these boats (are the still?). I'll dig around and see what else I have squirreled away. The sailing list satana3030 at sailpix dot com still has registered users and is a good source to tap into. These boats are great in the PNW as they can get moving with the lightest ripple of wind and still do OK for those two times a year the wind picks up (as long as you have plenty of monkeys on the rail). Great boat to learn how to tune as they have lots of bits of string to pull on just like the big boys but the boats are still small enough that you can feel the effect.

#45 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 24 November 2011 - 08:37 PM

Thanks Chunks. I have done some searches on sailpix.com. I suppose the following for these boats isn't completely dead.

#46 SimoSD

SimoSD

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 1 posts
  • Location:San Diego
  • Interests:Now sailing is about the only thing

Posted 09 November 2012 - 03:42 PM

Old thread here but was helpful, especially the tuning guide Chunks Ahoy posted. I just picked on 30/30 Abraxas in San Diego (originally Assissin) and I am not finding too much helpful info beyond this post. I'll keep searching but any pointers from other owners or former owners is appreciated... I admit I am but a novice but here to learn (and take the abuse that comes with being a novice ;-) Thanks

#47 TACNI

TACNI

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 166 posts

Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:32 PM

I had one ten years ago. I put on an elliptical keel and rudder. Look at the stanchion bases, I had the problem that the guy talked about in the post above. I fiound out that mine had a crack in the front side of the mast where it passes througthe deck, when the guy I sole it to called to complain. I lengthened the boom because it didn't reach as we'll as a J29. check for ballast in the bow. Some guys trimmed them bow down to raise the transom above the MORC 4% waterline height. You will probably want to remove that ballast since you won't be racing MORC.

It is a great boat, you will have lots of fun on it!

#48 Bulbhunter

Bulbhunter

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 12,361 posts
  • Interests:SA is DEAD

Posted 09 November 2012 - 05:35 PM

Light air boat its pretty good. Don't buy it thinking you'll do heavy air rough water events we have had a few pop bulkheads and start coming apart on fairly decent sailors on the Pacific Coast when things get rough.

#49 redmond

redmond

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 132 posts

Posted 10 November 2012 - 12:17 AM

In the late 80s through the 90s in Seattle, we had a nice class of several Santana 30/30s, S2 9.1s and Olson 911Ss. Crewed on one of the Santana 30/30 and have wonderful memories of the boat. I have a J24 right now but still sometimes regret not buying a Santana 30/30 GP that was for sale here about a doxzen years ago. If you are in the market for a 30 footer, all the three boats mentioned would be good candidates and all can be had for a reasonable amount of money.

#50 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 05:58 AM

Thanks for the info. Ended up getting the 30/30. I've had her in 20-25 knots spinnaker running (doubled-handed) and she's not too bad. Can't seem to stay with the Olsen 911s, S2 9.1s, or j30's upwind though (<12knots). I think it may be that I'm sailing with older sails and probably don't have enough rail meat. I've been following the guides above for sail and rig tune.

#51 ShockValue

ShockValue

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 335 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 06:08 AM

I'm going on an all donut, rum, and bacon diet. That should help in the rail-meat dept.

#52 usa1136

usa1136

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 149 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 01:24 PM

Thanks for the info. Ended up getting the 30/30. I've had her in 20-25 knots spinnaker running (doubled-handed) and she's not too bad. Can't seem to stay with the Olsen 911s, S2 9.1s, or j30's upwind though (<12knots). I think it may be that I'm sailing with older sails and probably don't have enough rail meat. I've been following the guides above for sail and rig tune.


It's you sails or rig tune, a 30/30 is faster upwind in anything under 15 than a j30 and same thing against the 9.1s. 911's seems to be pretty close to speed to the 30/30 from what i have seen after owning one for 5 years. Where are you located and what 30/30 did you buy? Weight is critical, you need as much weight as your phrf allows in anything over 6 knots upwind.

#53 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 15 November 2012 - 08:49 PM

I'm going on an all donut, rum, and bacon diet. That should help in the rail-meat dept.


That's the dedication I expect from the crew.


Thanks for the info. Ended up getting the 30/30. I've had her in 20-25 knots spinnaker running (doubled-handed) and she's not too bad. Can't seem to stay with the Olsen 911s, S2 9.1s, or j30's upwind though (<12knots). I think it may be that I'm sailing with older sails and probably don't have enough rail meat. I've been following the guides above for sail and rig tune.


It's you sails or rig tune, a 30/30 is faster upwind in anything under 15 than a j30 and same thing against the 9.1s. 911's seems to be pretty close to speed to the 30/30 from what i have seen after owning one for 5 years. Where are you located and what 30/30 did you buy? Weight is critical, you need as much weight as your phrf allows in anything over 6 knots upwind.



The genoa and main are 2006 UK Halsey tape drive (I might not have the last part right). I'm talking to a sailmaker right now about replacements. We mostly sail puget sound and the boat is Blackout.



#54 redmond

redmond

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 132 posts

Posted 16 November 2012 - 04:24 PM

From what I remember, the mains for these boats are cut pretty flat. In the lighter air, we used the running backstay to pull the center of the mast aft to add some fullness to the main. That seemed to help our light air perfomance. The 911s's and S2 9.1's are a little tougher but you ought to be able to stay with them. It is hard to be competitive with six year old sails and a new set will do wonders for your boat speed. The boat also needs to be sailed flat. We sailed the boat with seven people in just about all conditions.

#55 Darkside

Darkside

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts

Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:01 PM

I have played the check stays (or what ever they are called) on occasion to put more shape in the main, but I often forget about them unless the wind picks up. I'll have to pay more attention to that. I have noticed the Olsens and S2s have very flat mains as well and their out-hauls always seem trimmed tight.

One common thread I'm hearing is that you have to have crew weight regardless of wind-speed. I will have to start stocking up on the "donuts, rum, and bacon" before the next season. The most people I've raced with this past year was 6 and on average we end up with 4. One thing that drives me nuts is a J35 in our local PHRF fleet that kicks our butts sailing single-handed (no crew weight). When he does have crew the boat seems to slow down (we still get beat). I'd love to figure out his "magic". I guess that's what makes this whole sailing/racing thing so interesting.

In summary: Crew weight, crew weight, crew weight, and then new sails.

#56 Great White

Great White

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,160 posts
  • Location:Bremerton, WA USA
  • Interests:Racing, cruising, bicycle riding and touring, hiking, xcountry skiing.

Posted 18 November 2012 - 08:09 PM

I have played the check stays (or what ever they are called) on occasion to put more shape in the main, but I often forget about them unless the wind picks up. I'll have to pay more attention to that. I have noticed the Olsens and S2s have very flat mains as well and their out-hauls always seem trimmed tight.

One common thread I'm hearing is that you have to have crew weight regardless of wind-speed. I will have to start stocking up on the "donuts, rum, and bacon" before the next season. The most people I've raced with this past year was 6 and on average we end up with 4. One thing that drives me nuts is a J35 in our local PHRF fleet that kicks our butts sailing single-handed (no crew weight). When he does have crew the boat seems to slow down (we still get beat). I'd love to figure out his "magic". I guess that's what makes this whole sailing/racing thing so interesting.

In summary: Crew weight, crew weight, crew weight, and then new sails.

You were looking good yesterday and seemed to have good upwind speed.

#57 old guy

old guy

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 63 posts

Posted 06 June 2014 - 06:19 PM

Blackout, saw the boat last weekend during the Blakley Island race, looks really nice. Tha's the old Cats Paw (from Seattle) and Knockout (Portland). Nice graphics, who did them, and how are they holding up at the waterline (assume it is a wrap?).



#58 jesposito

jesposito

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,697 posts
  • Location:somewhere where your not
  • Interests:cycling, skiing and depressing the competition on the race course

Posted 07 June 2014 - 02:25 AM

There is a cheater 30/30 down in NJ called Project Mayham, has a taller rig than stock boat, elliptical rudder, and the grand prix interior and rates 126.

Plus the owner is a douche 






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users