Jump to content


2011-12 Ski Season


  • Please log in to reply
268 replies to this topic

#1 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 10 November 2011 - 12:41 AM

Time to shift gears up here in the high country. The 2011-12 season is well on it's way in CO.

My mountain, Copper, opened last week with the white ribbon of death. This weekend is budgeted for 3,500 skiers on one hardpacked run top to bottom. The majority of those will be out of shape, out of practice or just plain teenaged and stupid. On top of that all the race teams are here practicing. They have a closed course but those kids like to rip all over the place.

But it is good to be back on the snow and looking forward to another great season. Over 40 so far with no end in sight, I hope.

By the way any other freeheelers on this board? It's getting old talking the same old shit with the goofs on the ski forums.

Turn and burn baby!!!

#2 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:01 AM

Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.

#3 highndry

highndry

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 476 posts
  • Location:Brisbane, Australia
  • Interests:inshore / offshore, cruising, travel, retirement

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:07 AM


The Heroes of Telemark - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The Heroes of Telemark is a 1965 war film directed by Anthony Mann based on the true story of the Norwegian heavy water sabotage during World War II.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Heroes_of_Telemark<LI class=sa_wr>
The Heroes of Telemark (1965) - IMDb
  • Action/Drama/History/War ·
  • 131 min
Directed by Anthony Mann. With Kirk Douglas, Richard Harris, Ulla Jacobsson, Michael Redgrave. Norwegian resistance tries to stop German troops to produce an atomic bomb ...

www.imdb.com/title/tt0059263<LI class=sa_wr cpLoad="false">
1943: The Heroes of Telemark
The Allied forces high command in London determined that the Germans must be stopped from developing an atomic reactor and nuclear bomb at any cost.

www.hydro.com/en/About-Hydro/Our-history/1929---1945/1943-The-Heroes-of-Telemark<LI class=sa_wr>
The Big Picture: Real Heroes Of Telemark
In the bleak Norwegian midwinter of 1943, a group of resistance fighters manages to destroy machinery used by the Germans to make " heavy water", a key ingredient in building ...

www.abc.net.au/tv/guide/netw/200407/highlights/235911.htm<LI class=sa_wr>
The Heroes Of Telemark (1965) - YouTube
  • By KmanCosmo ·
  • 1 min ·
  • 2,896 views ·
  • Added 1/03/2011
1/03/2011 · The Heroes Of Telemark (Anthony Mann - UK, 1965) Info: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0059263/ + No Sala de Exibição: -

www.youtube.com/watch?v=7kkgIe1TI5k<LI class="sb_ans si_pp">//<LI class=sa_wr>
The Heroes of Telemark: Facts, Discussion Forum, and Encyclopedia ...
The Heroes of Telemark is a 1965. war film. directed by Anthony Mann. based on the true story of the Norwegian heavy water sabotage. during World War II

www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/The_Heroes_of_Telemark<LI class=sa_wr>
The Heroes of Telemark - Rotten Tomatoes
Review: In this tale of espionage and adventure set during World War II, Norway has fallen under Nazi occupation, and a factory is producing "heavy water" (a...

www.rottentomatoes.com/m/heroes_of_telemark<LI class=sa_wr>
The Heroes of Telemark - everythingNORWAY.com
One of the most incredible covert missions conducted in Norway during WWII prevented Hitler from constructing the atomic bomb. In 1939 Hitler's Nazi forces invaded and occupied ...

library.thinkquest.org/C005340/history.php3?id=wwii/heroesoftelemark<LI class=sa_wr>
The Heroes of Telemark - Ask Jeeves Encyclopedia
Plot summary. The Norwegian resistance sabotage the Vemork Norsk Hydro plant in the town of Rjukan in the county of Telemark, Norway, which the Nazis are using to produce heavy ...

uk.ask.com/wiki/The_Heroes_of_Telemark<LI class=sa_wr cpLoad="false">
The Heroes of Telemark (1965) - Full cast and crew
The Heroes of Telemark on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more...

www.imdb.com/title/tt0059263/fullcredi

#4 Fisher

Fisher

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 153 posts
  • Location:Colorado ~ higher than you

Posted 10 November 2011 - 06:04 PM

Posted Image

#5 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:15 PM

Kasha cares:

Posted Image









But truth is Kristen is correct.

#6 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 10 November 2011 - 10:33 PM

Kasha cares:

Posted Image


If Kasha cares I think the rest of us have an obligation to care as well.

#7 Jangles13

Jangles13

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Location:Maine

Posted 10 November 2011 - 11:56 PM

I finally got myself a tele set-up this year after mucking around with borrowed gear for a few years. I don't think I'll ever give up alpine as the primary though. I'm looking forward to the start of our season. The mountain is scheduled to open the 18th.

I think I need to meet this Kasha. Just to be sure her concerns are sincere.

#8 redboat

redboat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,278 posts
  • Location:Spofford, New Hampshire
  • Interests:none

Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:09 AM

Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


Jeffco students get deals on passes? My daughter is a Jeffco teacher and is in the midst of deciding where she wanted to ski this year. Wonder if teachers get a break on passes.

#9 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:23 AM


Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


Jeffco students get deals on passes? My daughter is a Jeffco teacher and is in the midst of deciding where she wanted to ski this year. Wonder if teachers get a break on passes.


I believe all 5th graders in CO get free passes

Try this:
https://passport.col...hp?do=Dashboard

#10 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 02:24 AM


Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


Jeffco students get deals on passes? My daughter is a Jeffco teacher and is in the midst of deciding where she wanted to ski this year. Wonder if teachers get a break on passes.


I'll ask around. It's just 5th and 6th grader Jeffco kids, but given all of the skis and boards on top of the teacher-salary cars in the school lot, I suspect they must get a discount.

#11 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 02:27 AM

There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


You're fucking high.


Posted Image


I had that on my Hippy Stinx :lol:

#12 Cruisin Loser

Cruisin Loser

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,639 posts
  • Location:West Texas, Taos, Maine
  • Interests:Sailing, rock climbing, skiing, steatopygia, stuff

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:25 AM

Colorado - for skiers who can't handle Taos, Alta, or Jackson Hole. B)

(Unless of course we have another lousy year for snow, in which case we'll be soooo glad to be back in Colorado!)

If anybody has a little kid who needs a cool set of skis, my son has outgrown his 128 cm Volkl Mantras. Excellent bottoms, mostly used on double blacks at Taos. Very experienced, they already know their way through the trees. Possibly high end Technica boots to fit. Free to good anarchist home.

#13 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 06:48 AM


There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


You're fucking high.



Alpine skiing is about 50% tourists and Mountain Dew junkies. Take a lift up, ski down groomed hill, rinse, lather, repeat. toss in some backcountry runs if your daddy has money.

Around my house there are trails that will wind normal people on a summer day, the telemark folks are skiing those uphill in blizzards while I'm inside sitting on my ass. They rip the shit out of them downhill with less room for error than any ski resort run, sometimes in whiteout conditions. Any downhiller who thinks that telemark skiiers have anything less than balls made of solid titanium needs to put down the crack pipe. On any average resort Sunday maybe only 1 out of 30 are free heel. Telemarkers are only marginally more sane than the guys who rip Lariat Loop Road from Mount Zion on skateboards.

But let me guess, you mounted alpine bindings on your Hippy Stinx?

#14 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 11:30 AM



There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


You're fucking high.



Alpine skiing is about 50% tourists and Mountain Dew junkies. Take a lift up, ski down groomed hill, rinse, lather, repeat. toss in some backcountry runs if your daddy has money.

Around my house there are trails that will wind normal people on a summer day, the telemark folks are skiing those uphill in blizzards while I'm inside sitting on my ass. They rip the shit out of them downhill with less room for error than any ski resort run, sometimes in whiteout conditions. Any downhiller who thinks that telemark skiiers have anything less than balls made of solid titanium needs to put down the crack pipe. On any average resort Sunday maybe only 1 out of 30 are free heel. Telemarkers are only marginally more sane than the guys who rip Lariat Loop Road from Mount Zion on skateboards.

But let me guess, you mounted alpine bindings on your Hippy Stinx?


Bishops & TRaces son, which I suspect you'll inform us all about how much of an expert on them you are.

#15 redboat

redboat

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,278 posts
  • Location:Spofford, New Hampshire
  • Interests:none

Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:02 PM

Speaking of Colorado backcountry, anyone spend any time on the 10th Mountain Division Trail? I've been looking at it ever since my daughter moved to CO but haven't had the time to spend a few days on it. Is it worth it?

#16 DogWillBark

DogWillBark

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Location:Rocky River, OH.

Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:27 PM

Any midwest/NE lurking? Only seeing one spot in NY openned so far. What's the story in NH, ME, VT?



#17 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 02:32 PM




There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


You're fucking high.



Alpine skiing is about 50% tourists and Mountain Dew junkies. Take a lift up, ski down groomed hill, rinse, lather, repeat. toss in some backcountry runs if your daddy has money.

Around my house there are trails that will wind normal people on a summer day, the telemark folks are skiing those uphill in blizzards while I'm inside sitting on my ass. They rip the shit out of them downhill with less room for error than any ski resort run, sometimes in whiteout conditions. Any downhiller who thinks that telemark skiiers have anything less than balls made of solid titanium needs to put down the crack pipe. On any average resort Sunday maybe only 1 out of 30 are free heel. Telemarkers are only marginally more sane than the guys who rip Lariat Loop Road from Mount Zion on skateboards.

But let me guess, you mounted alpine bindings on your Hippy Stinx?


Bishops & TRaces son, which I suspect you'll inform us all about how much of an expert on them you are.


Nah, I board. But you disrespected the telemark.

I like those guys, they take good care of the trails, and there is almost no chance that they're going to be driving like a warmlander speed maniac on Sixth with icy roads and a bunch of expensive gear on the rack relying on their friggen traction control to prevent killing the people around them.

#18 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 02:38 PM





There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


You're fucking high.



Alpine skiing is about 50% tourists and Mountain Dew junkies. Take a lift up, ski down groomed hill, rinse, lather, repeat. toss in some backcountry runs if your daddy has money.

Around my house there are trails that will wind normal people on a summer day, the telemark folks are skiing those uphill in blizzards while I'm inside sitting on my ass. They rip the shit out of them downhill with less room for error than any ski resort run, sometimes in whiteout conditions. Any downhiller who thinks that telemark skiiers have anything less than balls made of solid titanium needs to put down the crack pipe. On any average resort Sunday maybe only 1 out of 30 are free heel. Telemarkers are only marginally more sane than the guys who rip Lariat Loop Road from Mount Zion on skateboards.

But let me guess, you mounted alpine bindings on your Hippy Stinx?


Bishops & TRaces son, which I suspect you'll inform us all about how much of an expert on them you are.


Nah, I board. But you disrespected the telemark.

I like those guys, they take good care of the trails, and there is almost no chance that they're going to be driving like a warmlander speed maniac on Sixth with icy roads and a bunch of expensive gear on the rack relying on their friggen traction control to prevent killing the people around them.


Telemark is gay.
Floppy heels are fucking stupid.
Shut the fuck up.

#19 bored broker

bored broker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • Location:Burlington, VT
  • Interests:anything on water. Liquid or solid.

Posted 11 November 2011 - 02:45 PM

Kilingtime was open for a few days in the upper section but I think they closed again with the 60 degree temps. Most of the areas have their snow guns staged on the hill and ready to go as soon as the temps drop.

I on the other hand am nursing a broken ankle so that prety much gauranties that we will have an epic beging to the season here in the east









Whare the hell did the spell check go?

#20 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:30 PM

Telemark is gay.
Floppy heels are fucking stupid.
Shut the fuck up.


I dunno. I suspect that if we slapped a pair of alpines onto bmiller a pair of freeheels onto you and pushed you both off the peak that bmiller would be down in the lodge with a Fat Tire while the patrol was busy peeling you off a rock.

Telemark done well is harder, it's work, which is why the tourists don't do it ... they don't have the constitution to spend all day doing lunges, they want it free. You're a pussy for insulting telemark and you're probably just another credit card skier with more money than ability.

#21 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:35 PM


Telemark is gay.
Floppy heels are fucking stupid.
Shut the fuck up.


I dunno. I suspect that if we slapped a pair of alpines onto bmiller a pair of freeheels onto you and pushed you both off the peak that bmiller would be down in the lodge with a Fat Tire while the patrol was busy peeling you off a rock.

Telemark done well is harder, it's work, which is why the tourists don't do it.



I have no clue how good a skier bmiller is.
You're still a retard though.

#22 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:42 PM



Telemark is gay.
Floppy heels are fucking stupid.
Shut the fuck up.


I dunno. I suspect that if we slapped a pair of alpines onto bmiller a pair of freeheels onto you and pushed you both off the peak that bmiller would be down in the lodge with a Fat Tire while the patrol was busy peeling you off a rock.

Telemark done well is harder, it's work, which is why the tourists don't do it.



I have no clue how good a skier bmiller is.
You're still a retard though.


He telemarks, and he lives in the mountains. He's probably awesome.

But you ... you can't ski worth shit. You sled down the hill on your mamma's wooden leg.

#23 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:46 PM




Telemark is gay.
Floppy heels are fucking stupid.
Shut the fuck up.


I dunno. I suspect that if we slapped a pair of alpines onto bmiller a pair of freeheels onto you and pushed you both off the peak that bmiller would be down in the lodge with a Fat Tire while the patrol was busy peeling you off a rock.

Telemark done well is harder, it's work, which is why the tourists don't do it.



I have no clue how good a skier bmiller is.
You're still a retard though.


He telemarks, and he lives in the mountains. He's probably awesome.

But you ... you can't ski worth shit. You sled down the hill on your mamma's wooden leg.


I can't? Shit! At least I do it in style. Because I'm not busy eating bags of dicks like you.

And all this coming from a cockbag who claims to be a knuckledragger and went ON AND ON AND ON about carving boards yet never has heard of Bishops is interesting. Very very interesting. You sure you're from Colorado?

#24 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:46 PM

Stop flipping buggers at each other. This was supposed to be a happy thread.

Tomorrow will be a busy day on the hill. Should be lots of carnage to pick up.

And just for the record, since I do tele, I have license to suck. But I suck in style!!!

#25 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:48 PM

Stop flipping buggers at each other. This was supposed to be a happy thread.

Tomorrow will be a busy day on the hill. Should be lots of carnage to pick up.

And just for the record, since I do tele, I have license to suck. But I suck in style!!!


excuse me, your bindings are broken.

#26 Shaggy

Shaggy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts
  • Location:Co
  • Interests:This is SA, you figure it out.......

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:52 PM

Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


Copper,
"Where the Skiers Ski"

Now what are you doin there wofsie??

#27 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 11 November 2011 - 03:56 PM

excuse me, your bindings are broken.


Yep.

#28 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:08 PM





Telemark is gay.
Floppy heels are fucking stupid.
Shut the fuck up.


I dunno. I suspect that if we slapped a pair of alpines onto bmiller a pair of freeheels onto you and pushed you both off the peak that bmiller would be down in the lodge with a Fat Tire while the patrol was busy peeling you off a rock.

Telemark done well is harder, it's work, which is why the tourists don't do it.



I have no clue how good a skier bmiller is.
You're still a retard though.


He telemarks, and he lives in the mountains. He's probably awesome.

But you ... you can't ski worth shit. You sled down the hill on your mamma's wooden leg.


I can't? Shit! At least I do it in style. Because I'm not busy eating bags of dicks like you.

And all this coming from a cockbag who claims to be a knuckledragger and went ON AND ON AND ON about carving boards yet never has heard of Bishops is interesting. Very very interesting. You sure you're from Colorado?


Why do I care about the crappy gear you bought with your daddy's credit card? I like to ride, not jack off into plastic and foam.

You don't ride with style, you don't break your own bones with style. You just sit around at the Pope's Island Performing Arts Center making shit for your Auntie Beezus out of paper mache and string.

#29 Shaggy

Shaggy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts
  • Location:Co
  • Interests:This is SA, you figure it out.......

Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:09 PM



Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


Jeffco students get deals on passes? My daughter is a Jeffco teacher and is in the midst of deciding where she wanted to ski this year. Wonder if teachers get a break on passes.


I believe all 5th graders in CO get free passes

Try this:
https://passport.col...hp?do=Dashboard


This is the case. It is through the state not just jefco. Son got these 2 yrs ago good stuff. I don't think teachers are elegable though. Through a different agency maybe?? But not through the state.

#30 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:16 PM


Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


Copper,
"Where the Skiers Ski"

Now what are you doin there wofsie??


Good question. Freaking kids. They insist on skiing because "snowboarding is for boys and skiing is for girls." And now I have to live with the shame of having two daughters who insist on riding the lifts like Elmer Fudd.

One more chance with the son, he's little now, but if he goes for skis instead of boards I'm going to give up on this family of mine and move to Palau.

#31 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 06:42 PM

Why do I care about the crappy gear you bought with your daddy's credit card? I like to ride, not jack off into plastic and foam.

You don't ride with style, you don't break your own bones with style. You just sit around at the Pope's Island Performing Arts Center making shit for your Auntie Beezus out of paper mache and string.


Bwahahahahaha You're so cute. Cry more little noob, cry more.
I better tell my dad I used his credit card to buy my gear some time, but I suppose he's gotten the bill by now. Strange how he never yelled at me!

And we all know you like to ride sheep, you don't need to remind us.

bmiller: if you have 7tms, you're dead to me. (I bet you post on ttalk too)

#32 flyingtacks

flyingtacks

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 81 posts
  • Location:St. George's, Bermuda

Posted 11 November 2011 - 07:17 PM

so how bout them snowboarders?

#33 Shaggy

Shaggy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts
  • Location:Co
  • Interests:This is SA, you figure it out.......

Posted 11 November 2011 - 07:20 PM

Ask wofsie...

#34 Shaggy

Shaggy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts
  • Location:Co
  • Interests:This is SA, you figure it out.......

Posted 11 November 2011 - 07:23 PM



Older daughter got a free pass to Copper for being a Jeffco student, younger daughter skis free with wife's pass, so Copper is about the cheapest spot for us. No heeling ... did it as a kid but but migrated to boards. There aren't too many telemarkers left on the steep stuff, you guys are the legend.


Copper,
"Where the Skiers Ski"

Now what are you doin there wofsie??


Good question. Freaking kids. They insist on skiing because "snowboarding is for boys and skiing is for girls." And now I have to live with the shame of having two daughters who insist on riding the lifts like Elmer Fudd.

One more chance with the son, he's little now, but if he goes for skis instead of boards I'm going to give up on this family of mine and move to Palau.


Actually Wofsie, You are retarded if you force your kid into ether one. Let them choose then see what happens. Frankly it takes much more skill to ski well so boarding is the easy way out for the uneducated masses you speak so fondly of.

#35 DogWillBark

DogWillBark

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Location:Rocky River, OH.

Posted 11 November 2011 - 07:50 PM

WTF is this?

#36 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:04 PM

bmiller: if you have 7tms, you're dead to me. (I bet you post on ttalk too)


Hammerheads, g-3's, some pins and a old pair of chilis. Only in the OT, and just to start shit. Check it out.

Let me guess, you bought NTN's?

#37 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:17 PM


bmiller: if you have 7tms, you're dead to me. (I bet you post on ttalk too)


Hammerheads, g-3's, some pins and a old pair of chilis. Only in the OT, and just to start shit. Check it out.

Let me guess, you bought NTN's?


I've avoided that place for a looong time.
Still got bombers (including a pair of Ti's brand new in box) and yes, I have NTN. Got a bro deal good enough to not pass up. :unsure:

#38 Left Hook

Left Hook

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:27 PM

so how bout them snowboarders?


Dumb bunch of sterno'd, useless, snowdozers who endanger the lives of every skier around them. Should be segregated away from those of us who are actually more mature than a 15 year old skateboarder.

#39 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:35 PM


so how bout them snowboarders?


Dumb bunch of sterno'd, useless, snowdozers who endanger the lives of every skier around them. Should be segregated away from those of us who are actually more mature than a 15 year old skateboarder.


You forgot the baggy pants/parka 10x too large jackoffs.

#40 Left Hook

Left Hook

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 09:52 PM



so how bout them snowboarders?


Dumb bunch of sterno'd, useless, snowdozers who endanger the lives of every skier around them. Should be segregated away from those of us who are actually more mature than a 15 year old skateboarder.


You forgot the baggy pants/parka 10x too large jackoffs.


Oh, sorry. Thanks for reminding me. And the headphones blasting so that they can't hear what's FUCKING going on around them and that there may be other people on the mountain.

#41 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 10:05 PM




so how bout them snowboarders?


Dumb bunch of sterno'd, useless, snowdozers who endanger the lives of every skier around them. Should be segregated away from those of us who are actually more mature than a 15 year old skateboarder.


You forgot the baggy pants/parka 10x too large jackoffs.


Oh, sorry. Thanks for reminding me. And the headphones blasting so that they can't hear what's FUCKING going on around them and that there may be other people on the mountain.


Gotta love the retarded skullcandy headphones that are a throwback to studio monitors.
Yeah, smart.

#42 Left Hook

Left Hook

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,215 posts

Posted 11 November 2011 - 10:11 PM





so how bout them snowboarders?


Dumb bunch of sterno'd, useless, snowdozers who endanger the lives of every skier around them. Should be segregated away from those of us who are actually more mature than a 15 year old skateboarder.


You forgot the baggy pants/parka 10x too large jackoffs.


Oh, sorry. Thanks for reminding me. And the headphones blasting so that they can't hear what's FUCKING going on around them and that there may be other people on the mountain.


Gotta love the retarded skullcandy headphones that are a throwback to studio monitors.
Yeah, smart.


C'mon man, these are sexy right?!

Posted Image


#43 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 11 November 2011 - 10:20 PM

C'mon man, these are sexy right?!

Posted Image


How are the rasta colors still in fashion.
Tanner is dead!

#44 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 11 November 2011 - 10:23 PM





so how bout them snowboarders?


Dumb bunch of sterno'd, useless, snowdozers who endanger the lives of every skier around them. Should be segregated away from those of us who are actually more mature than a 15 year old skateboarder.


You forgot the baggy pants/parka 10x too large jackoffs.


Oh, sorry. Thanks for reminding me. And the headphones blasting so that they can't hear what's FUCKING going on around them and that there may be other people on the mountain.


Gotta love the retarded skullcandy headphones that are a throwback to studio monitors.
Yeah, smart.

Made it amost two complete pages.........................

#45 DogWillBark

DogWillBark

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 873 posts
  • Location:Rocky River, OH.

Posted 12 November 2011 - 02:55 AM



C'mon man, these are sexy right?!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_SKjq57XVCus/SM9eZES67cI/AAAAAAAAA3I/BKSLzAF8T88/s400-

R/skullcandyTI.jpg




How are the rasta colors still in fashion.
Tanner is dead!


That's fuckim' lame dude. Take it back. Might as well shoot down Doug Coombs too.

#46 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 12 November 2011 - 05:14 AM

Actually Wofsie, You are retarded if you force your kid into ether one. Let them choose then see what happens. Frankly it takes much more skill to ski well so boarding is the easy way out for the uneducated masses you speak so fondly of.


If I forced them into anything they would be boarding. They chose skiing for dubious reasons in my opinion, because of perceived gender roles ... daddy boards, mommy skis, therefore they chose skis.

But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.

I've been hit by a few out-of-control skiers, rollerbladers and ice skaters. I've never been hit by out-of-control skate/snowboarder. I believe that for them to function on their boards they have to obtain a level of expertise that skiers don't always need. Sure, 90% of the skiers have it, but that 10% can make all kinds of problems. Boarders don't follow the fall-line, thus it looks like the young punks are often out of control when in fact they manage pretty well.

#47 Left Hook

Left Hook

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,215 posts

Posted 12 November 2011 - 06:16 AM



C'mon man, these are sexy right?!

Posted Image




How are the rasta colors still in fashion.
Tanner is dead!


That's fuckim' lame dude. Take it back. Might as well shoot down Doug Coombs too.


No matter whether it's alive or not that shit should be done for someone when they graduate college.

#48 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:15 PM




C'mon man, these are sexy right?!

Posted Image




How are the rasta colors still in fashion.
Tanner is dead!


That's fuckim' lame dude. Take it back. Might as well shoot down Doug Coombs too.


No matter whether it's alive or not that shit should be done for someone when they graduate college kindergarden.


Fixed it for you.

#49 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:18 PM

That's fuckim' lame dude. Take it back. Might as well shoot down Doug Coombs too.


Putting a lame fashion statement park rat that needs a ride up mountains in the same class as THEE greatest ski mountaineer to ever live is not even laughable. Its just fucking retarded.

Now pull your fucking pants up.

#50 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:20 PM

Why all the knuckle dragger hate?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Posted Image

#51 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 12 November 2011 - 01:53 PM


Actually Wofsie, You are retarded if you force your kid into ether one. Let them choose then see what happens. Frankly it takes much more skill to ski well so boarding is the easy way out for the uneducated masses you speak so fondly of.


If I forced them into anything they would be boarding. They chose skiing for dubious reasons in my opinion, because of perceived gender roles ... daddy boards, mommy skis, therefore they chose skis.

But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.

I've been hit by a few out-of-control skiers, rollerbladers and ice skaters. I've never been hit by out-of-control skate/snowboarder. I believe that for them to function on their boards they have to obtain a level of expertise that skiers don't always need. Sure, 90% of the skiers have it, but that 10% can make all kinds of problems. Boarders don't follow the fall-line, thus it looks like the young punks are often out of control when in fact they manage pretty well.




Snowboarders haul the mail in the crud. Some amazing athletes on them.
But they can't share the back country cuz you guys can't walk on those damn things.

Had a problem, some time ago they were like mowing everyone down and mouthy afterwards.
One friend was hit twice I mean he got creamed.
Burton Snowboards (?) provided huge snowfence banners in the lift lines that read "Respect begets respect".
And the banners reviewed a few rules like "overtaking skier".
The problem went away within weeks.

Mikey was that you ran over my skiis?

You're poofers. Sorry your nice Rocky Mt/Wasatch Mt champagne powder creates a pansy skier.
Come ski and snowboard the Cascade Concrete and sort it out.

Jocal505 season #54
Stevens Pass and Crystal Mt. WA

#52 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 12 November 2011 - 10:05 PM



Actually Wofsie, You are retarded if you force your kid into ether one. Let them choose then see what happens. Frankly it takes much more skill to ski well so boarding is the easy way out for the uneducated masses you speak so fondly of.


If I forced them into anything they would be boarding. They chose skiing for dubious reasons in my opinion, because of perceived gender roles ... daddy boards, mommy skis, therefore they chose skis.

But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.

I've been hit by a few out-of-control skiers, rollerbladers and ice skaters. I've never been hit by out-of-control skate/snowboarder. I believe that for them to function on their boards they have to obtain a level of expertise that skiers don't always need. Sure, 90% of the skiers have it, but that 10% can make all kinds of problems. Boarders don't follow the fall-line, thus it looks like the young punks are often out of control when in fact they manage pretty well.




Snowboarders haul the mail in the crud. Some amazing athletes on them.
But they can't share the back country cuz you guys can't walk on those damn things.

Had a problem, some time ago they were like mowing everyone down and mouthy afterwards.
One friend was hit twice I mean he got creamed.
Burton Snowboards (?) provided huge snowfence banners in the lift lines that read "Respect begets respect".
And the banners reviewed a few rules like "overtaking skier".
The problem went away within weeks.

Mikey was that you ran over my skiis?

You're poofers. Sorry your nice Rocky Mt/Wasatch Mt champagne powder creates a pansy skier.
Come ski and snowboard the Cascade Concrete and sort it out.

Jocal505 season #54
Stevens Pass and Crystal Mt. WA



Posted Image

#53 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 12 November 2011 - 11:19 PM



Actually Wofsie, You are retarded if you force your kid into ether one. Let them choose then see what happens. Frankly it takes much more skill to ski well so boarding is the easy way out for the uneducated masses you speak so fondly of.


If I forced them into anything they would be boarding. They chose skiing for dubious reasons in my opinion, because of perceived gender roles ... daddy boards, mommy skis, therefore they chose skis.

But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.

I've been hit by a few out-of-control skiers, rollerbladers and ice skaters. I've never been hit by out-of-control skate/snowboarder. I believe that for them to function on their boards they have to obtain a level of expertise that skiers don't always need. Sure, 90% of the skiers have it, but that 10% can make all kinds of problems. Boarders don't follow the fall-line, thus it looks like the young punks are often out of control when in fact they manage pretty well.




Snowboarders haul the mail in the crud. Some amazing athletes on them.
But they can't share the back country cuz you guys can't walk on those damn things.

Had a problem, some time ago they were like mowing everyone down and mouthy afterwards.
One friend was hit twice I mean he got creamed.
Burton Snowboards (?) provided huge snowfence banners in the lift lines that read "Respect begets respect".
And the banners reviewed a few rules like "overtaking skier".
The problem went away within weeks.

Mikey was that you ran over my skiis?

You're poofers. Sorry your nice Rocky Mt/Wasatch Mt champagne powder creates a pansy skier.
Come ski and snowboard the Cascade Concrete and sort it out.

Jocal505 season #54
Stevens Pass and Crystal Mt. WA


I sort of understand the boarder hate, the sport seems to attract some annoying kids, but there are also a lot of old guys like me on big heavy carving boards just vibing with the gravity and the shape of the hill.

Anyway, it might have been me who ran over your skis. Was that person wearing an Abe Lincoln hat on the board with parachute pants and a trained coyote? Cause if so, yeah, it might have been me.

#54 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:54 PM

RIP lawndarts for jesus

#55 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:09 PM

I sort of understand the boarder hate, the sport seems to attract some annoying kids, but there are also a lot of old guys like me on big heavy carving boards just vibing with the gravity and the shape of the hill.

Anyway, it might have been me who ran over your skis. Was that person wearing an Abe Lincoln hat on the board with parachute pants and a trained coyote? Cause if so, yeah, it might have been me.


Boarder love is easy to come by too.
From the chair I saw some guy huck the rock at the top of The Peak chair at Whistler/Blackcomb. (Yes, that rock.)
They would "freight train" closely in threes and fours down the ribbon runs cut into the volcano at Bachelor.

Mikey nice hat. Something like 30% of the snowbaord ranks are older ex-skiers, wearing soft boots now.

I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.
Hey I prefer the fluff that you inhale during face shots okay. I will hike a distance to find it too.
But with mid-fat boards (or whatever) anyone can ski good off-piste snow.
Seems like on the way to find it (or not find it), or on the way back, what you ski is often some real garbage.
And it's the crummy snow that takes the measurement of each skier. Count on it.

But even the best snowboard guys can't be invited if any traverse walks are on a route.
Just discussing, not bashing : damn @ end of the day the snowboards offer a limited all-mountain experience.
Which is a bitch, because IME most snowboarders are more fun to hang with and roll with than typical skiers.

#56 Snow Guy

Snow Guy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 731 posts
  • Location:The Cove, CT

Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:12 PM

But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.

#57 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:47 PM


But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.



Question. You see a HUGE arc on the groomer snow left by some Mach 1 snowboard guy. The edge marks at the side-to-side transfer show about a five foot gap, no more.
Why do you guys flick the edges over so fast at speed?
Snow Guy et al did you do the PSIA cert thing?



#58 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 14 November 2011 - 07:53 PM

I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!

#59 echo

echo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,018 posts
  • Location:charlotte , nc
  • Interests:sailing, cycling and watching my kids grow

Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:20 PM

Speaking of Colorado backcountry, anyone spend any time on the 10th Mountain Division Trail? I've been looking at it ever since my daughter moved to CO but haven't had the time to spend a few days on it. Is it worth it?


Rode ATV's up there this summer. Could see skiing there too.

#60 echo

echo

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,018 posts
  • Location:charlotte , nc
  • Interests:sailing, cycling and watching my kids grow

Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:21 PM


I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


I can ski ice like you read about, but that doesn't mean I like it.

#61 bored broker

bored broker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • Location:Burlington, VT
  • Interests:anything on water. Liquid or solid.

Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:43 PM



But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.



Question. You see a HUGE arc on the groomer snow left by some Mach 1 snowboard guy. The edge marks at the side-to-side transfer show about a five foot gap, no more.
Why do you guys flick the edges over so fast at speed?
Snow Guy et al did you do the PSIA cert thing?


Snowboards tend to be a little triky when running on a flat base. Since the boards flex torsinaly you can run into a situation where one edge is engaged at the front of the board and the other edge is engaged at the back of the board. This usualy results in some form of crash. Moving your weight all the way across the board quickly will give better resultes.

PSIA is the Profesional Ski Instructors of America, They do not do snowboarding any more.
AASI is the American Association of Snowboard Instructos, They never did the skiing thing
Both orginizations are run out of the same offices but run indipendantly




#62 Snow Guy

Snow Guy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 731 posts
  • Location:The Cove, CT

Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:46 PM



But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.



Question. You see a HUGE arc on the groomer snow left by some Mach 1 snowboard guy. The edge marks at the side-to-side transfer show about a five foot gap, no more.
Why do you guys flick the edges over so fast at speed?
Snow Guy et al did you do the PSIA cert thing?


Because it's fun as hell to do cross-over/under turns all the way down the hill and it can't happen with a long transition.

I did the First Tracks thing, but didn't get my Level 1. About the time I was trying to get a test date, I got into race coaching. It wasn't worth it to me at the time to go up the PSIA ladder.

#63 TPG

TPG

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,738 posts
  • Location:Popes Island Performing Arts Center

Posted 15 November 2011 - 01:03 AM

You could have been a stem christie GOD!

#64 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 15 November 2011 - 02:01 AM

You could have been a stem christie GOD!



That is so 1960!

#65 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 15 November 2011 - 03:01 AM


But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.


Powder is hard, hardpack harder, ice even harder, asphalt most difficult. Make a bad cut on snow you get a face full of powder. Make a bad cut on asphalt you get torn up like piece of bloody meat.

#66 Snow Guy

Snow Guy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 731 posts
  • Location:The Cove, CT

Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:20 PM



But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.


Powder is hard, hardpack harder, ice even harder, asphalt most difficult. Make a bad cut on snow you get a face full of powder. Make a bad cut on asphalt you get torn up like piece of bloody meat.


What does that have anything to do with the difference in difficulty between skiing and snowboarding? Or do you just not have a rebuttal and still can't stay away from the keyboard?

BTW- Packed powder is the definitely the easiest. Powder and ice are up for grabs. On ice, you need to keep your weight centered and over the edges. Powder introduces quite a bit of forward/back motion. With asphalt, the crashes hurt, but the traction is pretty good.

#67 Shaggy

Shaggy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts
  • Location:Co
  • Interests:This is SA, you figure it out.......

Posted 15 November 2011 - 05:49 PM


But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.


This

#68 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 15 November 2011 - 06:39 PM


I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


Great comment. Any takers?

#69 Shaggy

Shaggy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,524 posts
  • Location:Co
  • Interests:This is SA, you figure it out.......

Posted 15 November 2011 - 09:03 PM

Screw the East coast, try the Midwest...... Wilmot, Develshead, Indian Head, Alpine valley, Majestic mtn. All icerinks.... Why do you think I moved out here..... :lol::D



I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


Great comment. Any takers?


I read that wrong PNW = Pacific north west, but still Ice = technical.

#70 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 15 November 2011 - 09:27 PM

What does that have anything to do with the difference in difficulty between skiing and snowboarding? Or do you just not have a rebuttal and still can't stay away from the keyboard?


About 90% if my boarding time is on asphalt now. I don't see snowboarding as too different from streetboarding.

BTW- Packed powder is the definitely the easiest. Powder and ice are up for grabs. On ice, you need to keep your weight centered and over the edges. Powder introduces quite a bit of forward/back motion. With asphalt, the crashes hurt, but the traction is pretty good.


The traction is incredible on asphalt 99% of the time, but it's that 1% that makes it difficult. When you hit gravel or oil or sand or a long seam at high speed, that's when you have to rely on all of your experience. Same thing with skiing deep powder (like Wolf Creek Pass deep, not Aspen deep) ... 99% of the time there is nothing below all of that powder to grab you, but the 1% is a killer.

You may "fall" on a snowboard, but on a streetboard you're going to be in an accident. Add traffic to the road and it gets way more complicated. But after years of doing it, there is no comparison for me, using my weight to guide the skis was far simpler than using my toes and shoulders and heels to pilot that board. It feels natural, and I don't think about it, but it has taken half a lifetime to get to this spot.

Debate all you want, but there is a reason why it takes a lifetime to master surfing and only ten years or so to master skiing.

#71 Jangles13

Jangles13

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Location:Maine

Posted 15 November 2011 - 10:08 PM

Debate all you want, but there is a reason why it takes a lifetime to master surfing and only ten years or so to master skiing.



If you truly believe that, then you do not know what masterful skiing is.

#72 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:12 PM


Debate all you want, but there is a reason why it takes a lifetime to master surfing and only ten years or so to master skiing.



If you truly believe that, then you do not know what masterful skiing is.


Maybe you're right. Maybe I just never connected with skiing the way I did with boards.

I can't remember any specific moment of skiing through the years, but I'll never forget catching my first wave or taking certain hills on a skateboard or snakeboard. Skis felt like an appendage to my body, something I could control. But with boards there is more a feeling that you are a guest on the board and the best you can usually do is hang on and make the best of what the surface gives you. You ride the board, you don't ride skis, you guide them. I think boards are a more Yin experience by nature, while skis are the Yang.

#73 Jangles13

Jangles13

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Location:Maine

Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:05 AM

So what this really comes down to is not a discussion of which is more difficult, skiing or snowboarding, but rather some unwarranted ass-backwards way of declaring that you simply don't enjoy skiing. Glad we sorted that out.

Can we go back to discussing the 2011-12 ski season now?

Sugarloaf probably won't make their opening date as scheduled (18th). It was 60F today... colder weather won't hit till the weekend.

#74 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 16 November 2011 - 07:34 AM

So what this really comes down to is not a discussion of which is more difficult, skiing or snowboarding, but rather some unwarranted ass-backwards way of declaring that you simply don't enjoy skiing. Glad we sorted that out.


No, I grew up in Colorado, spent the first half of my life skiing, and in my experience, boards are more challenging than skis because it's you and the board, rather that you and the ski and the ski and the pole and the pole. If you have a different experience, good for you. But a question ... are you any good on the boards?

Can we go back to discussing the 2011-12 ski season now?

Sugarloaf probably won't make their opening date as scheduled (18th). It was 60F today... colder weather won't hit till the weekend.


Sugarloaf ... enjoy your ice, your rocks, your dirt and your icy rocky dirty chunks. Might make a good Ben & Jerry's flavor.

#75 Lamps

Lamps

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 538 posts

Posted 16 November 2011 - 09:11 AM



But I disagree with you about it taking more skill to ski than board. I grew up skiing, only switched to boards in my late twenties, even though I had been skateboarding (and later snakeboarding) my whole life including snowboarding on one of the original SnoSkates, (plastic ski attachments that connected to the skateboard). To board well is a totally different skill set than skiing, and it definitely isn't easier. To do it well on powder is hard, to do it well on hardpack is even harder, but to do it well on asphalt is so difficult, that very few people actually do it. Skiing/skating is yang, snowboarding/snakeboarding is yin. You no longer have the luxury of allowing your legs to take direction, suddenly its your whole body, and your body has to react in a way that offers no corollary with walking, jumping or running.



I call BS. The very basic skills are more difficult on a board, but after that the learning curve is much easier. I was able to go from first time to carving to teaching in about 20 hours on snow. Skiing takes much longer to get the intricacies down. I'd say a bit of it is the 4 edges vs. 2 and the weight distribution between them.



Question. You see a HUGE arc on the groomer snow left by some Mach 1 snowboard guy. The edge marks at the side-to-side transfer show about a five foot gap, no more.
Why do you guys flick the edges over so fast at speed?
Snow Guy et al did you do the PSIA cert thing?


I think it's same in a carved ski turn; the board unweights in the turn, may even leave the ground briefly. In a less aggressive turn there would still be very little flat time, snowboarders rarely flat base, always edge a tiny bit. Flat basing is tricky, sooner or later you catch the down hill edge and tumble

#76 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:40 PM





Question. You see a HUGE arc on the groomer snow left by some Mach 1 snowboard guy. The edge marks at the side-to-side transfer show about a five foot gap, no more.
Why do you guys flick the edges over so fast at speed?
Snow Guy et al did you do the PSIA cert thing?


I think it's same in a carved ski turn; the board unweights in the turn, may even leave the ground briefly. In a less aggressive turn there would still be very little flat time, snowboarders rarely flat base, always edge a tiny bit. Flat basing is tricky, sooner or later you catch the down hill edge and tumble


Naw, it is quite different. Hey look at the tracks.
BSers don't fare too well on SA so at this point I invite all PSIA types and racers to challenge or improve on this.

Bottomline: Lots goin' on, but an elite skier actually engages the new ski with his hips. Way before crossing the fall line.
Skiing requires one pelvic thrust per turn. Gotta like that.

If you don't want to be an intermediate skier forever, check out the PSIA turn. It has included formal annual input from World Cup coaches for 15 years.

1. the first act of a turn is to distinctly release the outside ski of the former turn. Be definite. ("Up-unweighting" one side? LOL) This subtly empowers the new ski.

2. Second, slide those hips across the skis and forward, a smooth diagnal motion. This is imperative boys and girls: it rolls the new ski onto the new outside edge and does it early and without volition.
Key body part involved: hip muscles located at the body's center of gravity. Body extremities will follow CG just fine eh?
Please note that you have not even approached the fall line yet and all the hard work is done. Yeah, chill.

3. Since your CG is now committed downhill, use that same body motion to just touch the snow with the inside pole.

4. Just watch those skiis follow around (a by-product of the edge being engaged early by the hips) and quickly pick a spot to suck up the new outside ski, pop the hips (across and downhill) and glide around the other direction.

Up-and-down motion is totally extraneous unless you need to breathe or see in deep powder.
Since you turn early you brake early = more control, you can relax and your mind is just sorting terrain.
Feet, knee, leg, and ankle muscles are okay but they fine-tune the turn; they do not drive the turn.

If you are throwing your outside arm you are using upper body muscles to turn your damn feet, dummy.
This is the Kiss of Intermediate Death, you will be late late late to get on that new edge. (Can't pop the hips downhill when twisted around uphill like that, can you?)
The antedote? Well, Google "pivot slips" and do forty of them..

The Turn works WELL in crud, powder, ice, and gates; it is refined for the shaped skis.
Your mileage will not vary. BTW even macho guys don't learn it at 50mph.



Anyway, even early, Mr. Lamps, this edge-to-edge transition takes maybe twelve feet at medium speed; less in moguls and more at full speed. The ski edge change is not a flick, it is an arty transition.

Jamie was not playing the safe percentages of the sport. Here's to a safe season for all of us.

#77 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 16 November 2011 - 03:56 PM

Very impressive analysis, makes sense to me.

Are you able to transition to the new ski faster in the moguls than out because you have the smaller contact patch when you swing around the bump? Is it the same process with a mogul ski and that super-flexible tip? I forgot how difficult it is to manage that shifting contact around the bumps, I take back what I wrote about snowboards. They may be harder to find a prefect carve, but the complexity of managing all that ski gear in the bumps takes a lifetime to get right. I was never able to do it well.

#78 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 16 November 2011 - 05:04 PM

Very impressive analysis, makes sense to me.

Are you able to transition to the new ski faster in the moguls than out because you have the smaller contact patch when you swing around the bump? Is it the same process with a mogul ski and that super-flexible tip? I forgot how difficult it is to manage that shifting contact around the bumps, I take back what I wrote about snowboards. They may be harder to find a prefect carve, but the complexity of managing all that ski gear in the bumps takes a lifetime to get right. I was never able to do it well.





Moguls gotta be a bitch on those snowboards.
Mike about your kids. The statistics are that 80% of the lifetime skiers catch the bug when age ten or under...

Not too difficult to get another ski poster to lay this out better, but moguls are a serious exception in that some skidding is allowed.
And independent leg action is counter-productive, it's pretty two-footed.
.
Opinions vary a little but my two cents is to try to ride the low spots if struggling so you can slam into the high spots.
By definition the edges are not holding: let's face it, it's steep and you are dancing from hump to hump looking for flat spots to brake on and edge against.
Yer sliding into them sideways and compressing the gear (and bod) for just a split second to avoid 30MPH.


Main focus is to not have air under the skis unless you can double-jump something (launch off one and make the back side of the next).
A definite pole plant is a plus. Pumping the arms to lead the skis is the preferred technique, you are somebody if you get there.
Hey you gotta exhale sometimes and it will become a grunt on a hump, even if you are a chick.
The "zipper line" is good---if ejected from it you need a move to dive right back into the next zipper line over.
But GS turns in the moguls are sexy. Hey break it up and use both if you can do it.

Check out the TV mogul competition: Their sewing-machine legs provide some braking but watch their CG and shoulders: no up-and down.
CM just flows down the hill. You want that. Up-and-down is, well, jerking off.
Curiously, braking skills are no-no with side-by-side mogul competition, LOL.
Mighty fine athletes to do aerials and stick landings in those bumps.

#79 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 16 November 2011 - 05:46 PM

Can we go back to discussing the 2011-12 ski season now?

Sugarloaf probably won't make their opening date as scheduled (18th). It was 60F today... colder weather won't hit till the weekend.


Skied this weekend and it was decent considering it's the middle of November. Was busy though with everybody on a couple runs. Next weekend we'll open the other side of the mountain and that will help a lot.

The US ski team is on the mountain right now training. They will have a course in the Super Bee area for the next month. If you are in the area come on by.

#80 Snow Guy

Snow Guy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 731 posts
  • Location:The Cove, CT

Posted 16 November 2011 - 06:21 PM



I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


Great comment. Any takers?


Ice is nice! At least for going fast. I think that the range of conditions makes a much better skier. You have to be on your toes and ready for a transition much more often than if you were somewhere that had great snow instead of the different kinds of snow we have out here. East coasters are like Eskimos when it comes to the kinds of snow. There's powder, packed powder, crud, slush, granular, New England hardpack(soft ice), bulletproof(hard ice), mashed potatoes, death cookies, marbles, etc. Being able to not only recognize, but also transition between the different types of snow is key to skiing well and staying out of Ski Patrol. The other great thing about around here is it is possible to find all the different types of snow listed above in the same day depending on the conditions.

The above is part of the reason I prefer to go as deep as I can in the trees and bumps. Gotta get away from the rif-raf to find the best snow. Plus when I'm on the groomers I get nervous sometimes because of people that are scared of the varied conditions. I have to admit that I generally go faster than I probably should on groomers(all in total control mind you), but I've had situations before where I watch the pattern of a skier/rider when I'm coming up to them to figure out where to pass when all of the sudden they make a sharp turn for no real apparent reason. Before the fun police attack me, I've never been so close that I was worried about hitting someone in those situations, but I may have scared a few people because many times the closing speeds can be very fast.

Back to the topic- Looks like Killington is hurting. They only have "4" trails open right now. Pretty sure they had more open after the storm, but it's staying warm up there.

#81 Silverbullet

Silverbullet

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,564 posts
  • Location:Seattle

Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:27 PM

In other PNW news, it looks like we will have multiple openings pre-Thanksgiving!



Posted Image

#82 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 18 November 2011 - 03:43 PM


Debate all you want, but there is a reason why it takes a lifetime to master surfing and only ten years or so to master skiing.



If you truly believe that, then you do not know what masterful skiing is.


Can you go into your thoughts on this? Took me much longer then ten years and the "mastery" seems to break down now and then.

Can we go back to discussing the 2011-12 ski season now?


Technical discussions too boring? If any Level III instructor, PSIA examiner, or coherent racer will step up let's take the ski tech to it's own thread.
Tell you what Jangles if any qualified person would help with my skiing I would listen all season long.
.

In other PNW news, it looks like we will have multiple openings pre-Thanksgiving!


You called it the five major WA areas will all be open tomorrow. Two opened today.







#83 Lamps

Lamps

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 538 posts

Posted 18 November 2011 - 04:24 PM






Question. You see a HUGE arc on the groomer snow left by some Mach 1 snowboard guy. The edge marks at the side-to-side transfer show about a five foot gap, no more.
Why do you guys flick the edges over so fast at speed?
Snow Guy et al did you do the PSIA cert thing?


I think it's same in a carved ski turn; the board unweights in the turn, may even leave the ground briefly. In a less aggressive turn there would still be very little flat time, snowboarders rarely flat base, always edge a tiny bit. Flat basing is tricky, sooner or later you catch the down hill edge and tumble


Naw, it is quite different. Hey look at the tracks.

{snip)

BSers don't fare too well on SA so at this point I invite all PSIA types and racers to challenge or improve on this.
Anyway, even early, Mr. Lamps, this edge-to-edge transition takes maybe twelve feet at medium speed; less in moguls and more at full speed. The ski edge change is not a flick, it is an arty transition.

Jamie was not playing the safe percentages of the sport. Here's to a safe season for all of us.


I retract what I said about skiing as I stopped skiing years ago and never was really good at it (although I only said that was what I thought was going on from a ski perspective and was looking for an easy analogy. Sticking to boarding which I do know (lots of other know more), I will say that in general boarders avoid flat basing due to risk of catching edges, and go quickly from one edge to the other to avoid it. Speed of transition form one edge to another is definitely sought out in snowboards (not so 'arty' perhaps, but then this might be a useful metaphor for the whole skiing vs snowboard debate). Specifically in the case of those mach 1 snowboarder types that are really carving, not skidding through turns, it's not so much that they are flat basing as part of their turn as they are making a quick transition from one edge to another and its also unweighting the board briefly as part of the transition.

To return to the original topic Whistler opened today.

Lamps

#84 Snow Guy

Snow Guy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 731 posts
  • Location:The Cove, CT

Posted 18 November 2011 - 04:43 PM

Technical discussions too boring? If any Level III instructor, PSIA examiner, or coherent racer will step up let's take the ski tech to it's own thread.
Tell you what Jangles if any qualified person would help with my skiing I would listen all season long.



Didn't invest the time and money for the PSIA certifications, but spent a lot of time skiing and doing drills with examiners, Level III's, and race coaches. I also got pretty good at being able to detect flaws by watching from my training and spectating. I'm good with doing this for skiing, boarding, not so much. What do you want to know? If you want to start a thread, I'll check it out.

#85 Jangles13

Jangles13

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 715 posts
  • Location:Maine

Posted 18 November 2011 - 05:04 PM



Technical discussions too boring? If any Level III instructor, PSIA examiner, or coherent racer will step up let's take the ski tech to it's own thread.
Tell you what Jangles if any qualified person would help with my skiing I would listen all season long.



Didn't invest the time and money for the PSIA certifications, but spent a lot of time skiing and doing drills with examiners, Level III's, and race coaches. I also got pretty good at being able to detect flaws by watching from my training and spectating. I'm good with doing this for skiing, boarding, not so much. What do you want to know? If you want to start a thread, I'll check it out.



I have been a professional coach for over 10 years after competitive skiing for 15. I primarily teach high-level adults, but have some experience with children. I'm the resident bump guy. Technical discussions are certainly not too boring. I am not associated with PSIA for personal reasons, but can safely say my abilities and knowledge meet/exceed LIII. I'm a intermediate telemark skier (only been at it passively for a couple years) and my snowboarding is adequate at best (I don't enjoy it, so skill suffers).

I just didn't think this thread ought to be about arguing over skiing vs. snowboarding, particularly when the antagonist was spouting nonsense. Arguing about something like that on the internet is silly. Mike's defensive outburst riddled with attacks is proof.

This thread is for stoke. Pics, reports, general good times. Not picking fights.

#86 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 19 November 2011 - 05:47 AM

Are you able to transition to the new ski faster in the moguls than out because you have the smaller contact patch when you swing around the bump? Is it the same process with a mogul ski and that super-flexible tip? I forgot how difficult it is to manage that shifting contact around the bumps, I take back what I wrote about snowboards. They may be harder to find a prefect carve, but the complexity of managing all that ski gear in the bumps takes a lifetime to get right. I was never able to do it well.


Mike Wofski , about soft mogul skis. That soft tip is factored into a tighter design radius. So the same body motion just gives you a tighter, quicker turn. (Then away from the bumps your friends trash you on their GS boards.)

By "smaller contact patch" in the bumps you may be referring to the BS pivoting gimmick on the top of a bump. Hey it works, but well that's a bad program since you are trying to flow down the hill. Ideally you are setting up a mini "checkturn", and basically looking for a place to do it. The ski travels whatever contoured path to that spot, not off any bump top. See, what goes up must come down---wanna go over a bump? Save it for when you need to avoid a coffin pit in the mogul field,or to stretch out a turn in order to hold a rhythm, or to launch. If you feel you need to pivot off mogul tops look to the basics of short-radius linked turns on groomers. Then go ride the mogul valleys about five at a time.

Air is bad under a ski in bumps (and racing). For starters it is slower by deff because the co-effecient of snow friction on ski wax is less than air friction. Secondly you have given up your control surfaces, the edges. Third, ski airtime requires energy for re-entry, your program went up and now it has to come down.

Rhythm is your friend in bumps, but ever since snowboards the mogul shapes are irregular. So you need to cram some turns and stall other turns but try to set up a smooth rhythm anyway and relax into it. Or get brutalized.

Curiously, the only speed control mechanism which the PSIA recognizes is the shape of the turn! I feel they may be 95% correct. The missing 5%? Seems you are using other braking than that in moguls, since the turns become"J" shaped as opposed to "C" shaped---progressive pressure is out the window. Mike things get easier when you are comfy diving straight downhill on the staff of that "J", then you need to minimize the hooky part. If you can hold a round shape and carve any bump you are better off if not at the cost of crazy speed). Why better off? Because sliding sideways is not desirable: it has friction and the whole idea is to flow down the hill.

Hey about the "arty transition" of the skis. We all want to ski elegantly, but form follows function. You can't go directly to pretty skiing; it is by-product of clean basics.
The ski gods look that way (even in skanky snow) because their basics are covered---they hit only what's needed early in the turn and avoid extraneous body motion.

Also because their boots are professionally fitted (costs about $150 plus footbeds around $100). The bootfit will last five years if you keep the boots that long, and the same footbeds just slip into any new boot. Guys if you don't have footbeds it's like the dudes who race on mossy boat bottoms, get it together. It's a basic.

Impressive credentials, Jangles. Thanks for the upfront answer.
@ Snowguy: What do I want to know? Tell us your ice secrets.
Come on, lay out how to approach snowpark air. Yeah, how did Jamie land from 255 ft on his head when his takeoff was so sweet?

Ski safely amigos.

#87 Barkley

Barkley

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,947 posts
  • Location:C eh N eh D eh.

Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:14 AM


I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


I'd say it's apples and oranges because I can ski ice well but am useless in powder, and IMHO that doesn't make me a strong skier at all. Most people over here learn how to ski ice or stay on the intermediate hills where things don't ice up as much. No one likes the yard sale followed by the slide to the bottom, so if you like a pitch you learn.

Different question - how nuts am I to consider skiing with my two kids (3 1/2 and 18 months)? I'm thinking specifically of my son (the younger one), as I'm pretty sure he's still too small for his own gear so he'd have to be strapped to me in a carrier. He's a little daredevil so he'll definitely enjoy it, and I'd obviously tune my kit, avoid the serious steeps and make sure I was physically ready. Has anyone here done this?

#88 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:29 AM

Different question - how nuts am I to consider skiing with my two kids (3 1/2 and 18 months)? I'm thinking specifically of my son (the younger one), as I'm pretty sure he's still too small for his own gear so he'd have to be strapped to me in a carrier. He's a little daredevil so he'll definitely enjoy it, and I'd obviously tune my kit, avoid the serious steeps and make sure I was physically ready. Has anyone here done this?


I used to do it every weekend on my Snakeboard and every now and then on the Snowboard, both daughters. I put baby in sled or stroller and they had a blast, always pushed, never pulled. Never any close calls because I was behind the kid, if I was pulling them I suspect it might have been different.

Obviously snow is less worrisome than asphalt and street, but both are a blast. Either they fell asleep during the ride, or else I would look down to see a big smile. I never used helmets back then, but I would now that I know better.

A lot of parents do it, once you start moving all of your hesitation will melt away, it's nuttier to think about it than to actually do it.

#89 Barkley

Barkley

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,947 posts
  • Location:C eh N eh D eh.

Posted 19 November 2011 - 09:35 AM

Hadn't considered a sled. Did it interfere with your turns? How did you get it on the lift?

#90 bmiller

bmiller

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,802 posts
  • Location:Buena Vista, Colorado

Posted 19 November 2011 - 12:54 PM

Hadn't considered a sled. Did it interfere with your turns? How did you get it on the lift?

You won't get a sled on the lift. At least not around here.
Many people ski with kids in kid carriers, chest and back. Stirs all sorts of controversy. But it's your kid, you decide the level of risk you want to expose them to. As well as the level of fun.
My opinion, good for you getting them out and enjoying the outside.

Edit to add:
Does your local hill have a kid specific lift? Magic carpet type of thing. Many will let kids just ride and slide. Get em hooked young and you have a skier for life.

#91 bored broker

bored broker

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 526 posts
  • Location:Burlington, VT
  • Interests:anything on water. Liquid or solid.

Posted 19 November 2011 - 02:03 PM



I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


I'd say it's apples and oranges because I can ski ice well but am useless in powder, and IMHO that doesn't make me a strong skier at all. Most people over here learn how to ski ice or stay on the intermediate hills where things don't ice up as much. No one likes the yard sale followed by the slide to the bottom, so if you like a pitch you learn.

Different question - how nuts am I to consider skiing with my two kids (3 1/2 and 18 months)? I'm thinking specifically of my son (the younger one), as I'm pretty sure he's still too small for his own gear so he'd have to be strapped to me in a carrier. He's a little daredevil so he'll definitely enjoy it, and I'd obviously tune my kit, avoid the serious steeps and make sure I was physically ready. Has anyone here done this?

I grew up at a ski area whare my prents were ski patrol. I started at about 2 years old. My daughter was 11 months when she first slid on snow. In our ski school we have about 30 three year olds a day for week long camps all season long. I have been teaching kids skiing for most of 19 years at a well known family resort and I know that you will not be allowed on our lifts with a sled OR a kid carier. There is just too much of a liabiliy risk but if the kid has skiis on their feet they are good to go. With the realy little ones they will ussaly be tethered with clamps on the tips of the skiis. This can actully lead to the kids having trouble learning how to actuly ski because they just kind of think of the whole thing as a ride. Make sure that the kids are having fun and not just being forced to go along with what YOU want to do.

PS our day care center now has its own magic carpet that they get the kids on as soon as they can walk consistantly.



#92 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 19 November 2011 - 03:19 PM



I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


I'd say it's apples and oranges because I can ski ice well but am useless in powder, and IMHO that doesn't make me a strong skier at all. Most people over here learn how to ski ice or stay on the intermediate hills where things don't ice up as much. No one likes the yard sale followed by the slide to the bottom, so if you like a pitch you learn.

Different question - how nuts am I to consider skiing with my two kids (3 1/2 and 18 months)? I'm thinking specifically of my son (the younger one), as I'm pretty sure he's still too small for his own gear so he'd have to be strapped to me in a carrier. He's a little daredevil so he'll definitely enjoy it, and I'd obviously tune my kit, avoid the serious steeps and make sure I was physically ready. Has anyone here done this?



#93 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 19 November 2011 - 04:25 PM



I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


I'd say it's apples and oranges because I can ski ice well but am useless in powder, and IMHO that doesn't make me a strong skier at all. Most people over here learn how to ski ice or stay on the intermediate hills where things don't ice up as much. No one likes the yard sale followed by the slide to the bottom, so if you like a pitch you learn.

Different question - how nuts am I to consider skiing with my two kids (3 1/2 and 18 months)? I'm thinking specifically of my son (the younger one), as I'm pretty sure he's still too small for his own gear so he'd have to be strapped to me in a carrier. He's a little daredevil so he'll definitely enjoy it, and I'd obviously tune my kit, avoid the serious steeps and make sure I was physically ready. Has anyone here done this?


Ice and powder like apples and oranges? Most would agree, but I say no way. But man would I like to hang with you for a day on the snow.
Ice is the bitch, Nothin' tougher. I have had a total of two days where I liked my ice skiing. My hands still flutter in it and my only clean turns in it create speed control problems.
On the boiler plate I go to progressive skidding and even that is not well done. It's the untimate acid test IMO worse than crud. Jangles is gonna save me I hope.

Barkley, I bet you are not on fat cheater skis. I see some real idiots and 75 year-olds really boogie on them in powder.



With the kids, I got to and still get to teach lots, sometimes half a dozen at a time. On return I got a lot of comments from parents about the big smiles on their young 'uns. Nice.
Never had acting out or tears either. I never got I want my mommy.
In a group setting it seems the weak ones will just copy the strong ones.
Hey you don't teach them jack, you take them around and safely show them a good time. I never used a tether but it might be the best.
My first day with my 2 yr old daughter we called it skiing but it was sitting in a heated car partying with cocoa looking at the bunny hill, and a little snowplay.
The second time sure enough she wanted to put the gear on and try the rope tow. I knew it was over the first time she had a bummer experience.

In a resident ski school I once refused a supervisor's demand that I tie the kids'ski tips together.
That same school would not allow sliding around with the tyke between your legs, which seems to work quite well to me.
Any liftee will slow a lift down to load them. When getting off the chair have one hand on the small of their back to maybe nudge them off--if they hesitate a second or two yer in trouble.
Most athletes I know used chest carriers for their own children and I never heard about any disasters.
WORST CASE: .If it's a little steep and fear is happening, encourage the child from downhill. If their turn fails intersect them at an angle and just block them until traversing. Easy.
But maybe you blew it by bringing them onto such a pitch. With a tether that stuff is a non-problem.
You can push a 3-9 year old all day on the flats with a ski pole grip against their belt area (center of gravity). In that level situ you have zero fear factor to deal with.
Look for that smile on the kid and set it up.

#94 Bump-n-Grind

Bump-n-Grind

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 9,254 posts
  • Location:Chesapeake Bay/Vail
  • Interests:Boats: J35, Chesapeake 20 ,Laser , 47' ChrisCraft Commander, Mainship 34, Volkl P10's 205's, Fischer Big Stix 185's, K2 Recons, K2 Xplorers, Rosi Phantoms, other boats and powder boards to be named later

Posted 19 November 2011 - 08:52 PM

heading out to vail on Dec 3rd for a week. I dont board. I dont tele. but I have x-c'd the 10th mountain trail .. or at least parts of it on a hut tour from near Vail up to Aspen 20 years ago.. that was fun. they brought in some really good food every night. wish they'd start those up again.

#95 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:44 PM

Hadn't considered a sled. Did it interfere with your turns? How did you get it on the lift?


Never did the sled with skis, only boards. I imagine it would work fine with shorter skis, of course you would have to go without poles.

Doesn't interfere with my turns, you get used to it real fast. I can't carve as wide with the sled, but otherwise, no big deal. I sort of use the sled to lean into a bit on the carves, I find that I can carve the sled with my arms while I carve the board with my body.

Some lifts no problem, like t-bars, the chair lift operators might be more restrictive because you have to hold onto the sled with one hand while you hold onto the kid with the other.

They're all some variation of one of these ...
Posted Image


Or you can just buy skis for the wheels of your regular stroller and just fold it up and hold it with your ski poles, such as ...

Posted Image

#96 mikewof

mikewof

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,785 posts

Posted 19 November 2011 - 11:50 PM

Look for that smile on the kid and set it up.


So true, good advice.

I figure I lost a good few years of the best boarding due to pushing the sled with the kids inside ... you have to be more careful and avoid rough conditions with the kid. But I wouldn't have traded that for anything, the girls just loved it, and when my son is bigger I want to start with him again. I don't know that there is a smile on the slope as honest as the one from a child who learns about sliding around on hills.

#97 Barkley

Barkley

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,947 posts
  • Location:C eh N eh D eh.

Posted 20 November 2011 - 03:58 AM

All - thanks for the responses. I picked my son up in my arms and did 20 pretend jump turns just to see how it would be, then went out and bought him skis. He has good balance so I think he'll be fine, but I'm under no illusions about how much I'm going to actually be skiing. I'm going to keep it fun, and the food and hot chocolate needs to come out before the crying starts for it to stay fun.

Barkley, I bet you are not on fat cheater skis. I see some real idiots and 75 year-olds really boogie on them in powder.


While I don't embarrass myself on a black run, I am a country mile away from being the best on any hill. I have skinny Rossignol Viper S skis that predate shaped skis by two or three years. When I bought them I really liked doing the bumps and getting air, but I'm not indestructible anymore so my style has changed a bit. I actually think the straight skiis help with the ice, as I don't typically try to carve on steep ice. Keep your edges sharp, use them aggressively, and pick your line with grip in mind.

WORST CASE: .If it's a little steep and fear is happening, encourage the child from downhill. If their turn fails intersect them at an angle and just block them until traversing. Easy.


There will be no steeps, even if things go staggeringly well. Bunny hill, pizza and frenchfries:



#98 jocal505

jocal505

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,223 posts
  • Location:Seattle, Wa
  • Interests:performance sailing, downhill skiing, music

Posted 20 November 2011 - 04:17 AM

Shane fan myself.

#99 Jambalaya

Jambalaya

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,268 posts
  • Location:UK, South East

Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:00 AM



I stand by my comment that the crummy snow of the PNW creates a strong, clean, technical skier.

Just wondering if anyone from the ice coast would like to comment on this comment!


I'd say it's apples and oranges because I can ski ice well but am useless in powder, and IMHO that doesn't make me a strong skier at all. Most people over here learn how to ski ice or stay on the intermediate hills where things don't ice up as much. No one likes the yard sale followed by the slide to the bottom, so if you like a pitch you learn.

Different question - how nuts am I to consider skiing with my two kids (3 1/2 and 18 months)? I'm thinking specifically of my son (the younger one), as I'm pretty sure he's still too small for his own gear so he'd have to be strapped to me in a carrier. He's a little daredevil so he'll definitely enjoy it, and I'd obviously tune my kit, avoid the serious steeps and make sure I was physically ready. Has anyone here done this?


I remember well the first time I saw a sign in Killington for "New England Powder". Sheet ice all the way down ! The difficult conditions make the best skiers really good.

You can "ski" with your young kids, best to pick warm day and spend time on the nursery slope where you can walk about. I am not a fan of backpacks, every now and again they'll be a story of a kid dying from hypothermia in Europe whilst in their parents backpack. When the kids are just static they get cold very quickly.

#100 Jambalaya

Jambalaya

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,268 posts
  • Location:UK, South East

Posted 21 November 2011 - 12:11 PM

bmiller - to responce to your original post. I'd seen a few "telemarkers" around in Europe but only on their way to the backcounty. I've never forgotten the first time I saw one on a trail (1989/90 I recall). Double black diamond at Jackson Hole, I'm struggling down a mogul field in broken powder when this guy just bounces right past me. I collapsed in a mixture of appreciation and depression about how sh1t my skiing ability was.

After 2 years living in Singapore really looking forward to a full season in Europe, hopefully we'll have a good snow season.




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users