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AC 45 v. ESS 40


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#1 Vincent DePillis

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:42 PM

Some fascinating stuff on The DailySail comparing the AC 45 to the ESS 40:

Surprisingly,according to Hutchinson there is not much to choose between the pointingability of the two boats. In fact the same theories apply to both. “If you hadyour option, you’d overstand, not understand, because pinching and going slowis just painful and doesn’t work.” This strikes us as odd because you wouldhave thought that the higher efficiency of the wing would allow for betterpointing. But Hutchinson confirms that the tacking angles of the AC45 andExtreme 40 are similar.

Anotheroddity is that at present Hutchison believes the Extreme 40 is the faster boatwhen it comes to ultimate speed, although the wing should in theory out performthe softsail through its higher efficiency in lighter conditions. “I am not anaval architect, but you would think that some of the upper end speed potentialof the boat is limited by the fact that the hulls are safer, whereas on theExtreme 40 you are limited by that. But we have gone fastest on the Extreme 40two sail reaching, not with the genniker and it is the same with the AC45.”

Can this be right?



#2 walterbshaffer

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:51 PM

I'd like to know this too, in fact I had been meaning to ask the brain trust on this forum this exact question but did not want another non AC thread in the AC forum. Might still ask on Multhull Anarchy.

But as longs as it's here.....

#3 Scarecrow

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:03 PM

Pointing is limited by the jibs. If you think back to race one of the last Cup. Halfway up the first leg bwmo got enough wind that they could drop the headsail and they immediately pointed up 5-10 degrees higher.

Max speed on both boats is directly proportional to righting moment. Ability to do that speed for long periods of time is related to hull length. So what is the weight and beam of the two designs?

#4 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:38 PM

Fwiw, the highest speed I've heard of so far was from in Auckland w MJ on the helm, when he hit 29.8 and set the then-record. Bundy hit 26.8 (think that was max, not ave) in the 500 yesterday and won it.

Supposedly John Casay once touched 37 knots (!) on an X40, also a then-record.

#5 Vincent DePillis

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:43 PM




AC45Extreme 40LOA 13.45m12.19mBeam6.90m7.01mDisplacement1400kg1250kgMast height21.50m18.90mSail area (upwind)133sqm100sqmSail area (downwind)210sqm185sq

#6 Vincent DePillis

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:44 PM

Lost formating.

#7 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:49 PM

AC45Extreme 40LOA 13.45m12.19mBeam6.90m7.01mDisplacement1400kg1250kgMast height21.50m18.90mSail area (upwind)133sqm100sqmSail area (downwind)210sqm185sq


With a wider beam and a shorter mast the X40 is able to sail with stronger wind and able of higher speed. With the wing and a higher mast the AC45 should be faster on a triangle. I am not an architect though, would be interesting to have the figures.

#8 F18 VB

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 10:54 PM

Some fascinating stuff on The DailySail comparing the AC 45 to the ESS 40:

Surprisingly,according to Hutchinson there is not much to choose between the pointingability of the two boats. In fact the same theories apply to both. "If you hadyour option, you'd overstand, not understand, because pinching and going slowis just painful and doesn't work." This strikes us as odd because you wouldhave thought that the higher efficiency of the wing would allow for betterpointing. But Hutchinson confirms that the tacking angles of the AC45 andExtreme 40 are similar.

...

Can this be right?

More "efficient" boats point lower not higher in max VMG mode. A more "efficient" boat gets more out of an increase in apparent wind speed. So, going low and fast gives better VMG. When pinching, any little mistake can quickly slow the boat down and reduce the apparent wind speed too much. So, footing is preferred.

#9 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:04 PM

^ I wonder if that explains why the AC45's so often overstand the (guessed at) laylines on LL? Freaks me out when I mistake them for boundaries, but am getting used to it.

#10 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:08 PM

^^^
Above the layline? just to be safer in case of windshift, no ?

#11 Xlot

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:12 PM

Conflicting info on X40 beam, like here

#12 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 11:21 PM

^^^
Above the layline? just to be safer in case of windshift, no ?

Am suggesting the LL laylines are not quite what some teams take; could be for safety like you say, their guesses on the wind oscillations; but maybe also for the VMG footing they prefer as suggested above.

#13 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 12:10 AM

Conflicting info on X40 beam, like here


9 cm. Conversion between feet and cm ?

#14 Xlot

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 01:21 AM


Conflicting info on X40 beam, like here


9 cm. Conversion between feet and cm ?


?? 7.01 vs. 7.92 : 91cm . Being one full meter wider than the AC45 would explain the higher top speed

#15 nroose

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 04:39 AM

Yeah -- lighter, wider, shorter mast => faster max speed. Also, I would think they would get the hull up sooner due to greater heeling moment of the sails vs the wing, although perhaps they could compensate with the camber. But I gotta believe that around the course, the wing rules. And the longer hulls, greater sail area, and higher efficiency of the wing probably give it better speed in just about anything but broad reaching in heavy air.

#16 Xlot

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:38 PM

^^

Correct, but we're not talking a different order of magnitude - and it's arguable this compensates for boats costing twice as much and the logistics nightmare.

Significantly, BP (who to my mind is way more qualified than TH) put the accent on tacking being greatly enhanced by the wing. I believe he's right, X40s wouldn't have been at ease on WS courses.

#17 F-18 5150

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 05:54 PM

Not really a surprise. USA -17 had a higher speed with the mast and sail than the wing. The difference is the wing is more controllable than the sail. The wind powers up quicker and can de-power quicker than a conventional rig.

Since everywhere there are F-1 to AC references. Wing = more torque , Mast and sail = more horsepower.

#18 ~Stingray~

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 06:05 PM

Slightly OT, this is in today's SButt
--

APPLES AND ORANGES
The move to multihulls for the 34th America's Cup has seen growth in the
Extreme Sailing Series (ESS), an event schedule raced in Extreme 40
catamarans which visited nine international venues in 2011.

Both Emirates Team New Zealand and Artemis Racing are fielding teams in the
ESS to sharpen their multihull skills, while the America's Cup World Series
(ACWS) event in San Diego has ESS helmsmen Pierre Pennec (FRA) and Yann
Guichard (FRA) join the Aleph and Energy teams, respectively, for the first
time.

So will the ESS prove to be the gateway toward the America's Cup? According
to Kiwi skipper Dean Barker, comparing the two events is still a bit like
comparing apples and oranges. While similar, they do have differences.

"What the Extreme Sailing Series provides is that you tune up and then get
in something like 30 and 40 races in five days. You just can't duplicate
racing when you are trying to learn the maneuverability and the technical
situations for different scenarios. The Extreme Sailing Series is raced in
very confined spaces which lead to a lot of interaction between the boats.
You are forced to learn things very quickly. It has been a fantastic
environment for us."

But since the winner of the America's Cup is typically the team with the
fastest boat, that remains a vital area to gain knowledge. And the ESS
fails there. "The series doesn't teach you a lot about boat speed and
developing speed. The emphasis is entirely boat handling, whereas with the
ACWS there is still an element of boat speed required. There are multiple
sail configurations to design and develop with the AC45."

Until the America's Cup teams make the transition from the AC45s to the
AC72s, they will continue to be racing in the short course venues of the
ACWS. And while some of these skills might not transfer to the larger venue
that San Francisco Bay will provide, for the less funded teams, it is vital
to be doing well now. Their existence may depend on it. -- Craig Leweck,
Scuttlebutt

#19 Alpina

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 11:28 PM

Not really a surprise. USA -17 had a higher speed with the mast and sail than the wing. The difference is the wing is more controllable than the sail. The wind powers up quicker and can de-power quicker than a conventional rig.

Since everywhere there are F-1 to AC references. Wing = more torque , Mast and sail = more horsepower.

I never would have guessed, always thought a wing was better in all aspects...

#20 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 12:26 AM

Fwiw, the race data from Sunday for ORC shows Bundock hit 29.3 knots. It was likely during his winning run but I didn't try figure that out from the rest of the data accompanying that timestamp.

If anyone cares I will post the link to the datasets, later.

#21 trenace

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 03:45 AM

Since everywhere there are F-1 to AC references. Wing = more torque , Mast and sail = more horsepower.

How about, no.

Or if you disagree with my objection, then can you substantiate what you're saying instead of just asserting it?

As to why I disagree: First, it's certainly not literally so. Other than heeling force which I don't think is what you're referring to, the wing does not generate twisting force, which is what torque is. And if you are speaking figuratively, it isn't the case that the wing provides better acceleration while in an overly tall gear for a given speed while the sail provides better acceleration while in an appropriately short gear for that speed.

What would be correct is that the wing provides higher L/D. Whether it can provide less, the same, or greater propulsive force is a function of size and heeling force versus righting moment, not wing vs softsail.

#22 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 03:54 AM

My feeling is that a sail with a lower mast may accept stronger conditions and then can be faster.

Looks like the wing can give a better vmg upwind and more power downwind, thus lifting the weather hull sooner and providing a better vmg.
Seems that the wing can also allow faster tacks and jybes.
Biggest danger of the wing being the impossibility to depower it and to reef it.

It is just based on observation and feeling, if some wing specialist could tell us more...

#23 trenace

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 04:01 AM

It can't be reefed but most certainly can be depowered, by adding twist and (in effect) luffing the top part.

#24 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 04:03 AM

I am wrong or did Or Spithill had more twist than the others during the last fleet race ?

#25 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:13 PM

Fwiw, the race data from Sunday for ORC shows Bundock hit 29.3 knots. It was likely during his winning run but I didn't try figure that out from the rest of the data accompanying that timestamp.

says here his top speed in the 500 was 26.87; and so the 29.3 in the data set likely came during the fleet race.
http://www.americascup.com/en/Teams/ORACLE-Racing/Latest/Blog/2011/11/Behind-the-number/

#26 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:31 PM

All the average speeds during Sunday's AC500:


13:04:54 PRO TNZ 25.06kts
13:05:09 PRO OR4 24.93kts
13:05:45 PRO OR5 25.61kts
13:06:06 PRO AR1 25.08kts
13:07:01 PRO NRG 25.50kts
13:08:34 PRO KOR 23.83kts
13:10:52 PRO CHN 25.67kts
13:12:09 PRO ALF 25.05kts
13:13:28 PRO GCR 21.59kts
13:15:05 PRO TNZ 26.56
13:16:20 PRO OR4 26.79
13:17:43 PRO OR5 26.87




#27 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 02:45 AM


All-star line-up for 2012 Extreme Sailing Series

Extreme 40 media
Posted: 17 Feb. 2012

Posted Image
Some of the faces for the 2012 Extreme season

With less than two weeks to go until the Extreme Sailing Series™ in Muscat, Oman, the Act 1 team line-ups have been confirmed, revealing a stellar cast of top professional sailors from America’s Cup to Olympians, offshore and match racers and world championship winners.

Following the final event of 2011 in Singapore last December, team managers and skippers have spent the last two months securing the best crews possible to help take them to overall victory in 2012.

Once again, the team rosters include world-renowned sailors from a multitude of backgrounds representing nine different nationalities. French sailing superstar Loick Peyron, Britain’s ISAF World Match Racing champion Ian Williams, Austria’s double-Olympic Gold medallist Roman Hagara return to the circuit.

American and Tornado Olympian, Charlie Ogletree, and America’s Cup sailor, Bernard Labro from France, are two new faces gracing the roll-call, among teams boasting an array of Olympic, America’s Cup, match racing and round the world credentials, as well as a sprinkling of ocean racing record setters.

The two key cornerstones for success in this highly competitive circuit are experience and consistency. To this end, 2011 runners-up Groupe Edmond de Rothschild (FRA) and Alinghi (SUI) are keeping crew changes to a minimum, while the two Oman Sail teams are sporting a near new line-up with only Leigh McMillan and Nasser Al Mashari retaining their places.

There are plenty of new team combinations to spice up the competition. One new entry is ZouLou which will have the current superstar of sailing, Loick Peyron at the helm for Acts 1–3, prior to team owner Erik Maris taking over.

Maris is one of France’s sporting exports and a legendary multihull expert who recently shaved almost three days off the non-stop round the world Jules Verne record, Peyron will return to the Extreme Sailing Series. In 2010 he was the skipper and helm of fourth placed Oman Sail Masirah.

Peyron contrasts his recent experiences: “I can’t wait to go back to the Extreme Sailing Series with ZouLou crew, and especially to Muscat where I already spent a few weeks with the local team in 2009 and 2010,” he said.

“After two round the world tours in one year [Barcelona World Race and Jules Verne] I am really looking forward to going back to this intense racing amongst these top level crews.“

Groupe Edmond de Rothschild has retained its core team of Pierre Pennec on helm and Hervé Cunningham, but are introducing two new faces on bow in the form of Bernard Labro and Jean-Christophe Mourniac who raced for another team in Singapore last December.

Alinghi will be helmed by Ernesto Bertarelli, supported by the regular crew, including Tanguy Cariou, Nils Frei and Yves Detrey.

Meanwhile, the renowned Austrian duo of Roman Hagara and Hans Peter Steinacher on the Red Bull Sailing Team have confirmed that Matthew Adams will be part of the regular racing crew and introduce ‘newbie’, Australia’s Graeme Spence on bow, who makes the step from match racing and shore team to race team.

GAC Pindar skipper Ian Williams has gone the extra mile to secure a crew who can race with him for the season: “We have assembled a really strong team this year with a great mix of different skill sets.

“The only real opportunities to practice will be before the first event in Oman and before Act 5 in Cardiff, so having a consistent team will be crucial to improving from event to event,” Williams says.

Williams’ crew includes Mark Ivey, Mark Bulkeley, Adam Piggot and Andrew Walsh – all have raced with GAC Pindar for at least one event in 2011 – and this combination will be integral in continuing their upward trend on the leaderboard.

The Oman Sail teams of The Wave, Muscat and Oman Air return this year with only Olympic Tornado sailor Leigh McMillan and Nasser Al Mashari retaining their roles from last year.

McMillan, who skippered The Wave, Muscat to fourth place overall in 2011, has handpicked a team that includes previous Extreme 40 sailors Ed Smyth from the USA, Pete Greenhalgh who with his brother Rob won the inaugural 2007 Extreme Sailing Series, and they will be joined by newcomer Omani sailor Hashim Al Rashdi who has come up through the Oman Sail program.

Oman Air, will be led by record setting America’s Cup sailor Morgan Larson: “I’ve followed the Extreme Sailing Series since its conception and to now be competing on the tour with such a talented group of competitors is a dream come true.”

The team that last year had three different skippers including Britain’s Olympic star Ben Ainslie, will benefit from the Extreme 40 experience of Olympic sailor Will Howden and Omani sailor Nasser Al Mashari who raced in 2011 with Oman Air on bow, whilst double Olympic gold medallist Charlie Ogletree brings a fresh skill set.

In a test aimed at keeping opportunities open for new talent, the teams will race Act 1 with five sailors rather than four, plus a VIP guest or media person when appropriate. This additional fifth sailor must be either female or under 23, or be classified as an amateur by ISAF.

Both The Wave and Groupe Edmond de Rothschild will sail with female sailors as a result – Rachel Williamson and Adeline Chatelet respectively – the first girls to race since Olympic gold medallist Shirley Robertson skippered ‘iShares’ in 2009.

An eighth team for Muscat is still to be announced.

List of full teams: www.extremesailingseries.com/teams



#28 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:04 AM

^ I suppose EB will sink a lot into televising himself now that he's in it?

#29 SW Sailor

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:33 AM

^ I suppose EB will sink a lot into televising himself now that he's in it?


Does this mark his first reappearance after getting trounced on the water in AC33 ?

#30 tomtom

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:07 PM


^ I suppose EB will sink a lot into televising himself now that he's in it?


Does this mark his first reappearance after getting trounced on the water in AC33 ?


I guess he hasn't actually been away, just not in the Americas thingy.... http://new.alinghi.c...aulieu-sur-mer/

#31 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 03:55 PM

We can expect a big announcement in Oman - I'm thinking maybe they finally got a title sponsor for the series.

#32 jhc

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:15 PM

"Does this mark his first reappearance after getting trounced on the water in AC33 ?" (sws)

Wasn't there a spectacular t-bone incident between alinghi, and team x last summer? Who was driving?

#33 ~Stingray~

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 04:19 PM

"Does this mark his first reappearance after getting trounced on the water in AC33 ?" (sws)

Wasn't there a spectacular t-bone incident between alinghi, and team x last summer? Who was driving?


Pretty sure it is the first time that EB will be racing in the ESS.

But he may have sailed one of the Alinghi X40's in Valencia as training during the lead up to AC33, prior to investing in the ESS last year.

#34 Alpha FB

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:19 AM

Just checking out the ESS calendar for 2012: where the hell did the term 'act' in boat racing ever come from? I hated it when used for the AC preliminaries way back when, and it still sounds ridiculous now - like they are just putting on a play instead of a serious sporting event - like it's al just pretend...

#35 ~Stingray~

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:34 PM

EB, already making an impact :)

http://surfcityracin...gan-in-the-pit/

#36 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:21 AM

"Does this mark his first reappearance after getting trounced on the water in AC33 ?" (sws)

Wasn't there a spectacular t-bone incident between alinghi, and team x last summer? Who was driving?

Not sure, but if he wasn't driving last summer he was yesterday.

Their is more than one way to win it on the water.



#37 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:29 AM

^ Lol. He needs to take out the GdR/Gitana guys at some point if he's going to win the series, nobody else looks too hot w all the AC teams having abandoned it.

Otoh LP will be on one of the Oman boats, Pennec too on GEdR and AR could step in for an event or two; and EB is always very entertaining so maybe it will be fun to follow. Already started that way :)

#38 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:52 AM

^ Lol. He needs to take out the GdR/Gitana guys at some point if he's going to win the series, nobody else looks too hot w all the AC teams having abandoned it.

Otoh LP will be on one of the Oman boats, Pennec too on GEdR and AR could step in for an event or two; and EB is always very entertaining so maybe it will be fun to follow. Already started that way :)


He didn't want RC to steal all the thunder with his AC 45 pitch pole now did he, especially if it came at someone else's expense ?

#39 Rennmaus

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:13 PM

How nice...

EXSS @ Muscat:

<<(...) Live TV online: Sunset+Vine|APP will be producing the live race coverage in 2012 providing multi-camera coverage from the racecourse. The live coverage will be streamed online via the official website and will be available on other sailing sites too. BBC's Olympic commentator, Richard Simmonds, will lead the commentary team.
The live race coverage will start at 1130 GMT (1530 local time) on Wednesday (29th Feb), Thursday (1st March) and Friday (2nd March). To access the live race coverage, click on the LIVE RACE CONSOLE button on the home page (see below).

Live Race Console: Follow all the action in one place via the Extreme Sailing Series LIVE RACE CONSOLE… Live TV, leaderboard, Twitter updates, Facebook, YouTube, interactive commenting – all the relevant content aggregated in a single viewing console. The Live Race Console will be available for Act 1 from Tuesday, 28th February at www.extremesailingseries.com>>

It will be interesting to watch it in comparison to the ACWS broadcast.

#40 ~Stingray~

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Posted 27 February 2012 - 07:22 PM

^ That's great news, EB must be pitching in now that he's sailing in it? Can't have been cheap getting S+V coverage. Good for sponsors too.

#41 tomtom

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:44 AM

^ That's great news, EB must be pitching in now that he's sailing in it? Can't have been cheap getting S+V coverage. Good for sponsors too.


Nope, nonsense, another bit of spin'ning here: S&V have been involved in the ESS for a while now, as well as the Audi Medcup and other sailing events. This has nothing to do with EB, why would he bother? ESS is fine as it is. As for S&V, ACWS just followed the beaten path. They just made it a lot wider with more cameras and viewpoints, higher resolutions etc. to provide S&V more to work with.

#42 ~Stingray~

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 03:22 PM


^ That's great news, EB must be pitching in now that he's sailing in it? Can't have been cheap getting S+V coverage. Good for sponsors too.


Nope, nonsense, another bit of spin'ning here: S&V have been involved in the ESS for a while now, as well as the Audi Medcup and other sailing events. This has nothing to do with EB, why would he bother? ESS is fine as it is. As for S&V, ACWS just followed the beaten path. They just made it a lot wider with more cameras and viewpoints, higher resolutions etc. to provide S&V more to work with.


I can recall very few ESS events that have had live TV coverage. The most recent was during one day in Istanbul but that was not produced/broadcast by S+V, it was a local channel.

What's new is "live race coverage in 2012 providing multi-camera coverage from the racecourse" which at least suggests it will be in place for all events this year - definitely a first. Mark Turner has spoken before about how it was too expensive to consider doing in the past. What else is new? EB sailing in it.

It's a reasonable guess to think EB is who is helping finance the live TV - who else would be? Do you know different?

#43 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:20 PM

Pierre Pennec is Aleph helsman.





Extreme Sailing Series 2012 Act 1, Muscat, Oman standings after Day 2, 14 races (29.2.12)
Position / Team / Points

1st Groupe Edmond de Rothschild (FRA) Pierre Pennec / Jean-Christophe Mourniac / Hervé Cunningham / Bernard Labro / Adeline Chatenet 85 points
2nd Oman Air (OMA) Morgan Larson / Will Howden / Charlie Ogletree, Nasser Al Mashari, Max Bulger 84 points
3rd The Wave, Muscat (OMA) Leigh McMillan, Ed Smyth, Pete Greenhalgh, Hashim Al Rashdi, Rachel Williamson 72 points
4th Red Bull Sailing Team (AUT) Roman Hagara, Hans Peter Steinacher, Matthew Adams, Graeme Spence, Pierre Le Clainche 65 points
5th GAC Pindar (GBR) Ian Williams / Mark Ivey / Mark Bulkeley, Adam Piggot / Andrew Walsh 62 points
6th ZouLou (FRA) Loick Peyron, Philippe Mourniac, Jean-Sébastien Ponce, Bruno Jeanjean, Antoine Joubert 51 points
7th Alinghi (SUI), Ernesto Bertarelli, Tanguy Cariou, Nils Frei, Yves Detrey, Pierre-Yves Jorand 150 points
8th Team Trifork (DEN) Jes Gram-Hansen, Rasmus Kostner, Pete Cumming, Simon Hiscocks, Jonas Hviid 35 points



#44 GauchoGreg

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 07:40 PM

Pierre Pennec is Aleph helsman.


Is he the official helm? Not even talking about whether Aleph is still a team in the ACWS, or not, but I thought the Pennec helm was a one-time thing, at least at the time. Hopefully Pace has given up the idea that he has what it takes to be on an AC45, even at the helm, and Pennec does have the helm (assuming Aleph is still in it).

#45 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:16 PM


Pierre Pennec is Aleph helsman.


Is he the official helm? Not even talking about whether Aleph is still a team in the ACWS, or not, but I thought the Pennec helm was a one-time thing, at least at the time. Hopefully Pace has given up the idea that he has what it takes to be on an AC45, even at the helm, and Pennec does have the helm (assuming Aleph is still in it).

Of what I know Pace won't be back. Problem with Aleph is budget and training on the AC45, I hope they will make it.

#46 bluesea

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:49 PM

TH and ML need to trade places. Age does matter.

#47 ~Stingray~

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

Mark Turner interview at VS
http://www.vsail.inf...-to-vsail-info/

#48 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:56 PM

That will please some:

Concerns over the lack of women and young sailors under the age of 23 coming through the ranks, leading to a growing sense of 'closed shop' in the fleet, have prompted Extreme Sailing Series organisers to trial a new rule, adding one extra crew to the team of four on the fast-paced catamarans.

It was introduced at the first event in Muscat, featuring eight teams, with two women and five young men added to the teamsheets, but on Alinghi, Bertarelli, a Swiss-Italian billionaire whose fortune has funded much of Alinghi’s campaigns during the past three America’s Cups, was listed as both skipper and fifth man, qualifying as an amateur.

Rival skippers expressed surprise while Mark Turner, chief executive of organisers OC Thirdpole, said the fifth man rule had been introduced strictly as a trial measure.

"It does conform with our rule but we do not know whether we will keep it in after this event," he said. "The jury is out.

"After five years of the Extreme Sailing Series, we had a lot of people with a lot of experience but it was starting to become a bit of a closed shop.

"So we felt it would be good to have more women and younger people involved and we have two private owners, Ernesto and Eric Maris, who are amateurs and allow to have one more person on board.”

Zoulou skipper Loick Peyron added: "Ernesto is a passionate amateur but I don’t really understand how someone who helmed in the last America's Cup can be an amateur. It’s a really good for guys who otherwise have no chance and it is only for this event.

"I’m not sure if this is a good innovation. When it is windy, why not, because it helps a lot, but in light winds, especially when you have a guest on board as well, it is a nightmare. It worked very well without a fifth man but a fifth man means you have to feed another guy and pay for his flights and hotels."

Bertarelli himself supported the initiative, saying it opened up more opportunities.



#49 ~Stingray~

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 12:40 AM

Lol! :)

Way OT but it reminded me that an RG article from yesterday mentioned that, during a weekly media conf call, IM answered a Q about the potential Youth Series; and he said it's being given attention now, will be nationality-based, and ~may~ involve AC45's.

#50 SW Sailor

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:53 PM

Oman Air/Morgan Larson wins act 1 of the ESS - his debut in the series. Pretty impressive accomplishment.

Looks like EB is a bit rusty.

#51 point

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 03:04 AM

So from the eXtreme 40 class website they've built and launched 20 eXtreme 40's.

With 8 racing in the 2012 Extreme Sailing Series... where are the other 12 hiding?

They're no longer any good for aspiring AC teams due to the surrogate yacht rules... who's got them sitting in mothballs or are they turning up in private hands these days?

#52 ~HHN92~

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:45 AM

Morgan Larson, my kind of guy:

"IT'S AS CLOSE TO NASCAR RACING AS YOU GET"

From Scuttlebutt & ESS..........


http://www.extremesailingseries.com/

#53 Alpina

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:37 PM

Are there any calculations as to how much thrust the AC45 wing generates? Knowing the thrust would allow one to calculate the power produced.




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