446 replies to this topic

[us7070]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

agree - 15 min is getting off light...

['moondance44]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

agree - 15 min is getting off light...

But.. I fully believe this was all just an honest mistake by all concerned which was corrected as soon as they realized it.

Avenir Salvaged
http://www.eastbayri.com/news/2012/jul/11/avenir-recovered/

[Matt B]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

I hate this stuff. So Kit drove, knowing he was a cat 3, and they only ding them 15 minutes? An hour isn't even enough This after accepting the Corinthian trophy, knowing that Kit was a 3.
Kit can take all the blame if he really wants to. Not sure why he should.

['moondance44]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

I hate this stuff. So Kit drove, knowing he was a cat 3, and they only ding them 15 minutes? An hour isn't even enough This after accepting the Corinthian trophy, knowing that Kit was a 3.
Kit can take all the blame if he really wants to. Not sure why he should.

Tenacious got 1 minute for the lifleines, and 59 minutes because nobody likes the Navigator

[us7070]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

agree - 15 min is getting off light...

But.. I fully believe this was all just an honest mistake by all concerned which was corrected as soon as they realized it.

Avenir Salvaged
http://www.eastbayri.com/news/2012/jul/11/avenir-recovered/

I have no reason to think it wasn't an honest mistake.

I still think 15 minutes is getting off very light

if i foul someone in a race, it's not like it's one turn for an accidental foul, and two turns for an on-purpose foul...

[MR.CLEAN]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

I hate this stuff. So Kit drove, knowing he was a cat 3, and they only ding them 15 minutes? An hour isn't even enough This after accepting the Corinthian trophy, knowing that Kit was a 3.
Kit can take all the blame if he really wants to. Not sure why he should.

The weird part is that nobody, including the Jury, seemed to remember that the best-known part of the ISAF Classification Code is that an expired classification is the same as a Cat 3.

[us7070]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

I hate this stuff. So Kit drove, knowing he was a cat 3, and they only ding them 15 minutes? An hour isn't even enough This after accepting the Corinthian trophy, knowing that Kit was a 3.
Kit can take all the blame if he really wants to. Not sure why he should.

The weird part is that nobody, including the Jury, seemed to remember that the best-known part of the ISAF Classification Code is that an expired classification is the same as a Cat 3.

How is "I didn't know" a defense?

but he says above in his post that his expired classification was group 1

['No.6]

But even that shouldn't have been since on his Linked In page he clearly states he was the pro on Dr. Laura's boat in June 2009. So how is it he isn't a pro when the classification of Cat 1 that expired in April 2010 was applied for and granted? Now he could have asked for a reclassification but if memory serves we still had Cat 2 in 2009/10 as a recovering pro. Further, since he works for Brewers, why is it that Rives fills out the crew form and lists him as a Cat 1?
The prime tenet of St Davids Head is no pros touch the wheel. A pro touching the wheel, when there is not a dire emergency requiring it, should be either allowed to RAF or be DSQ'd.

Tenacious was not penalized for loose lifeline IIRC. That charge was dismissed once it was demonstrated that a bent stanchion was the cause. The upper lifeline had been adjusted to compensate, the lower was overlooked.
The penalty was for not having a gotten a waiver to carry a race legal JimBuoy in lieu of the US Sailing prescription calling for a LifeSling.

['No.6]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

I hate this stuff. So Kit drove, knowing he was a cat 3, and they only ding them 15 minutes? An hour isn't even enough This after accepting the Corinthian trophy, knowing that Kit was a 3.
Kit can take all the blame if he really wants to. Not sure why he should.

Tenacious got 1 minute for the lifleines, and 59 minutes because nobody likes the Navigator

Sounds about right.

[titanuranus]

Kit Will's Overview
Current

• Director of Sailing Projectsat Brewer Yacht Yards

Past

• Professional Sailor, Project Managerat Dr. Laura Schlessinger Racing
• Head Sailing Coachat Milton Academy
• Internat East-West Center, Honolulu, HI

• Internat Compass Capital Corporation
• Internat Nelson Mullins Riley & Scarborough LLC, Washington, DC

see less

see all

Education

• Connecticut College
• Milton Academy

Recommendations1 person has recommended Kit

Connections367 connections


Kit Will's Experience

Director of Sailing Projects

Brewer Yacht Yards


June 2012– Present (2 months)New England

Corporate team-building and adventures.
Family and corporate charters.
Adult and junior sailing schools.
Offshore sailing courses.


Professional Sailor, Project Manager

Dr. Laura Schlessinger Racing


June 2009– November 2011 (2 years 6 months)Santa Barbara, California Area

Oversaw specification, budgeting, design and construction of state-of-the-art 47' race yacht. Coordinated all aspects of yacht racing program including budget management, crew selection and social media presence.


Head Sailing Coach

Milton Academy
Educational Institution; 201-500 employees; Education Management industry

January 2008– June 2008 (6 months)Milton, MA

Organized daily practice for thirty sailors, travel logistics, team budgeting, outreach to alumni and parents for support

['No.6]

The Dr. Laura bit is particularly disturbing as he clearly would be a Cat 3 for those paid services that required "specific knowledge" to oversee the build project of a race boat. Further, Rives had to have known what his tenure involved in association with that. This is all quite unsettling.

[btbotfa]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

I hate this stuff. So Kit drove, knowing he was a cat 3, and they only ding them 15 minutes? An hour isn't even enough This after accepting the Corinthian trophy, knowing that Kit was a 3.
Kit can take all the blame if he really wants to. Not sure why he should.

Tenacious got 1 minute for the lifleines, and 59 minutes because nobody likes the Navigator

Sounds about right.

The true story of that race has yet to be told...

[btbotfa]

The Dr. Laura bit is particularly disturbing as he clearly would be a Cat 3 for those paid services that required "specific knowledge" to oversee the build project of a race boat. Further, Rives had to have known what his tenure involved in association with that. This is all quite unsettling.

and Rives skates cause he's the owner, correct?

[MR.CLEAN]

Carina got dinged 15 minutes for having Kit Will drive during the race....Flame on

Now they've still beaten the Navy by 16.5 minutes. If they were dinged 30 mins, it wouldn;t have looked so good beating them by only 1.5mins.

Tenacious was dinged 1 hour for loose lifelines in 2008

Seems like good deal for 2014. Bring a pro and take the 15 mins.

I hate this stuff. So Kit drove, knowing he was a cat 3, and they only ding them 15 minutes? An hour isn't even enough This after accepting the Corinthian trophy, knowing that Kit was a 3.
Kit can take all the blame if he really wants to. Not sure why he should.

The weird part is that nobody, including the Jury, seemed to remember that the best-known part of the ISAF Classification Code is that an expired classification is the same as a Cat 3.

How is "I didn't know" a defense?

but he says above in his post that his expired classification was group 1

Any expired classification is automatically considered Cat 3

[AJE]

Re:
"The weird part is that nobody, including the Jury, seemed to remember that the best-known part of the ISAF Classification Code is that an expired classification is the same as a Cat 3..."
"Any expired classification is automatically considered Cat 3"


Where do you find that in the rules? ISAF Reg. 22.3.3? Even then, it would require the Classification Commission to take some action.

[hermetic]

Re:
"The weird part is that nobody, including the Jury, seemed to remember that the best-known part of the ISAF Classification Code is that an expired classification is the same as a Cat 3..."
"Any expired classification is automatically considered Cat 3"


Where do you find that in the rules? ISAF Reg. 22.3.3? Even then, it would require the Classification Commission to take some action.

You don't. ISAF classifies expired classifications as expired.

The NORs, on the other hand, usually say that unclassified sailors will be deemed Group 3's.

['No.6]

The Dr. Laura bit is particularly disturbing as he clearly would be a Cat 3 for those paid services that required "specific knowledge" to oversee the build project of a race boat. Further, Rives had to have known what his tenure involved in association with that. This is all quite unsettling.

and Rives skates cause he's the owner, correct?

I think that is the case but would have to read up on it. It is possible that Rives is a Cat 1, as strange as that sounds. Last I read the code (which admittedly was about a decade ago), you could be in the marine industry and remain a cat 1 so long as your employment does not require "specific knowledge" to preform your job. What that means is that if you are a sail designer or rigger, for instance, your employment requires specific knowledge of sail shape or tuning, deck layout etc. and as such you are a cat 3. But say you are a manager, bookkeeper, sewing machine operator, receptionist, or bottom washer for instance, your employment doesn't require specific knowledge about how to make a boat go fast, thus you can ask to be ranked as a Cat 1. They ask a lot of questions if you do this but have been known to rank industry people as Cat 1.

['No.6]

Tenacious got 1 minute for the lifleines, and 59 minutes because nobody likes the Navigator

Sounds about right.

The true story of that race has yet to be told...

You first.

['moondance44]

The Dr. Laura bit is particularly disturbing as he clearly would be a Cat 3 for those paid services that required "specific knowledge" to oversee the build project of a race boat. Further, Rives had to have known what his tenure involved in association with that. This is all quite unsettling.

and Rives skates cause he's the owner, correct?

I think that is the case but would have to read up on it. It is possible that Rives is a Cat 1, as strange as that sounds. Last I read the code (which admittedly was about a decade ago), you could be in the marine industry and remain a cat 1 so long as your employment does not require "specific knowledge" to preform your job. What that means is that if you are a sail designer or rigger, for instance, your employment requires specific knowledge of sail shape or tuning, deck layout etc. and as such you are a cat 3. But say you are a manager, bookkeeper, sewing machine operator, receptionist, or bottom washer for instance, your employment doesn't require specific knowledge about how to make a boat go fast, thus you can ask to be ranked as a Cat 1. They ask a lot of questions if you do this but have been known to rank industry people as Cat 1.

They may have applied for a Jobson exemption

['moondance44]

Tenacious got 1 minute for the lifleines, and 59 minutes because nobody likes the Navigator

Sounds about right.

The true story of that race has yet to be told...

You first.

who;'s job was it to tighten the lifelines back up on the way into Hamilton?
and don;t blame it on people no longer here to defend themselves!

[MR.CLEAN]

Re:
"The weird part is that nobody, including the Jury, seemed to remember that the best-known part of the ISAF Classification Code is that an expired classification is the same as a Cat 3..."
"Any expired classification is automatically considered Cat 3"


Where do you find that in the rules? ISAF Reg. 22.3.3? Even then, it would require the Classification Commission to take some action.

My bad AJE...

I was confusing the ISAF code with the Class Rules (M24, M32, F40, F30) that I have read a thousand times. Not sure if the race NOR has the same language. Sorry!

['moondance44]

Blue Box
2010 Videos Text/HTML
2010 Photo Galleries Race News

Race News
7/11/2012 11:43 AM


Carina Penalized 15 Minutes for Professional Helmsman


The International Jury for the 2012 Newport Bermuda Race has penalized the yacht Carina 15 minutes in elapsed time because a professional sailor briefly steered the boat during the race. The rules of the St. David’s Lighthouse Division in which Carina sailed (and which the boat won) require that only amateur sailors steer while racing.

The ruling does not affect the race standings. The penalty trims Carina’s margin over the second-place St. David’s Lighthouse boat, the U.S. Naval Academy’s Defiance, to 16 minutes, 22 seconds from 34 minutes, 34 seconds. Carina also remains winner of Class 3 under the IRC rule.

The International Jury made its decision after a hearing on Sunday, July 8, in which Carina’s owner and captain, Rives Potts (Westbrook, Conn.), participated. The Jury determined that Carina’s crew list as provided by Potts before the race listed all of the boat’s 12 crewmembers as Category 1 amateur sailors under the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) sailor classification code. The rules for the St. David’s Lighthouse Division permit a boat the size of Carina, a 48-foot sloop, to have as many as three professional sailors in the crew with the condition that none of them steer while the boat is racing.

One of Carina’s crew was Kit Will, whose ISAF Category 1 classification had expired in April 2010. Two days before the race start, Will applied to ISAF and was classified as a Category 3 professional sailor. (There is no Category 2 in the ISAF code.) Will did not inform Potts that he had been reclassified as a Category 3 until after Carina finished the race in Bermuda. By then Carina had been presented with the Corinthian Trophy for top boat with an all-amateur crew. Potts returned the trophy to the Bermuda Race Organizing Committee, which runs the race for the Cruising Club of America and the Royal Bermuda Yacht Club.

Potts filed a report with the International Jury in which he stated that Will had briefly steered Carina during the race. Potts requested that the Jury review the matter. “Mr. Will was aware that Category 3 competitors were not permitted to steer the yacht while racing,” the Jury stated in its decision. “During the race Mr. Will steered the boat on two occasions for brief periods amounting to several minutes.” The Jury imposed the 15-minute penalty.

While the Bermuda Race has no official overall winner, the top boat in the St. David’s Lighthouse Division is generally regarded as the winner because this is the largest division and features amateur sailors.

The members of the International Jury are: Peter Shrubb (Bermuda) Chairman, Lynne Beal (Canada), Robert Duffy (Bermuda), Patricia O`Donnell (U.S.), and Arthur Wullschleger (U.S.)

['No.6]

Tenacious got 1 minute for the lifleines, and 59 minutes because nobody likes the Navigator

Sounds about right.

The true story of that race has yet to be told...

You first.

who;'s job was it to tighten the lifelines back up on the way into Hamilton?
and don;t blame it on people no longer here to defend themselves!

Someday we will chat about the whole ordeal.

[AJE]

Re:
"The weird part is that nobody, including the Jury, seemed to remember that the best-known part of the ISAF Classification Code is that an expired classification is the same as a Cat 3..."
"Any expired classification is automatically considered Cat 3"


Where do you find that in the rules? ISAF Reg. 22.3.3? Even then, it would require the Classification Commission to take some action.

You don't. ISAF classifies expired classifications as expired.

The NORs, on the other hand, usually say that unclassified sailors will be deemed Group 3's.

Interesting that some classes and NORs have created that default. I thought reg 22 ("General") limits changeability to 22.4 (entry process).

[Matt B]

Blue Box
2010 Videos Text/HTML
2010 Photo Galleries Race News

Race News
7/11/2012 11:43 AM


Carina Penalized 15 Minutes for Professional Helmsman


The International Jury for the 2012 Newport Bermuda Race has penalized the yacht Carina 15 minutes in elapsed time because a professional sailor briefly steered the boat during the race. The rules of the St. David’s Lighthouse Division in which Carina sailed (and which the boat won) require that only amateur sailors steer while racing.

The ruling does not affect the race standings. The penalty trims Carina’s margin over the second-place St. David’s Lighthouse boat, the U.S. Naval Academy’s Defiance, to 16 minutes, 22 seconds from 34 minutes, 34 seconds. Carina also remains winner of Class 3 under the IRC rule.

The International Jury made its decision after a hearing on Sunday, July 8, in which Carina’s owner and captain, Rives Potts (Westbrook, Conn.), participated. The Jury determined that Carina’s crew list as provided by Potts before the race listed all of the boat’s 12 crewmembers as Category 1 amateur sailors under the International Sailing Federation (ISAF) sailor classification code. The rules for the St. David’s Lighthouse Division permit a boat the size of Carina, a 48-foot sloop, to have as many as three professional sailors in the crew with the condition that none of them steer while the boat is racing.

One of Carina’s crew was Kit Will, whose ISAF Category 1 classification had expired in April 2010. Two days before the race start, Will applied to ISAF and was classified as a Category 3 professional sailor. (There is no Category 2 in the ISAF code.) Will did not inform Potts that he had been reclassified as a Category 3 until after Carina finished the race in Bermuda. By then Carina had been presented with the Corinthian Trophy for top boat with an all-amateur crew. Potts returned the trophy to the Bermuda Race Organizing Committee, which runs the race for the Cruising Club of America and the Royal Bermuda Yacht Club.

Potts filed a report with the International Jury in which he stated that Will had briefly steered Carina during the race. Potts requested that the Jury review the matter. “Mr. Will was aware that Category 3 competitors were not permitted to steer the yacht while racing,” the Jury stated in its decision. “During the race Mr. Will steered the boat on two occasions for brief periods amounting to several minutes.” The Jury imposed the 15-minute penalty.

While the Bermuda Race has no official overall winner, the top boat in the St. David’s Lighthouse Division is generally regarded as the winner because this is the largest division and features amateur sailors.

The members of the International Jury are: Peter Shrubb (Bermuda) Chairman, Lynne Beal (Canada), Robert Duffy (Bermuda), Patricia O`Donnell (U.S.), and Arthur Wullschleger (U.S.)

Poor Kit, having to take all the heat. Rives didn't know anything, of course. He only employed the guy at his boat yard. The spin doctors who wrote that press realeas sure make him look squeaky clean, don't they?

[BDA_Moose]

So it was all a big mix up with the entry, fine... Kit, knowing you were class 3 (as previously stated), why did you touch the wheel? Up to that point, it could all be "honest mistake" but the second that happend, it changes, and you knew it

[jurrasicsailor]

I'm sorry but this really troubles me. The fundamental precept of the St. David's Lighthouse division is that it is the amateur division. It is that single fact that separates it from the Gibbs Hill Division. It is in the race description "In keeping with the 100-year traditions of amateur sailors and strong family spirit.......", that someone who might not have been a Category 1 sailor even in 2010, can helm Carina and then be penalized only 15 minutes, seems to clearly violate the basic premise of the Newport Bermuda race. What are we to take from this penalty in light of others? Tenacious in 2008 was penalized an hour for the lack of a waiver for a valid piece of safety equipment. Is the message from the committee is that they aren't willing to make the hard decisions necessary to protect the integrity of the event in the long run?

['No.6]

Totally agree. What they should have done was either DSQ'd Carina or allowed Rives to RAF. All the BS about what Wil was and when is just that, BS. The song and dance that was done here and in the jury room is clearly refuted on the offender's Linked In page. Mr. Potts being the GM of BYY Pilot's Point and Wil's employer clearly demonstrates that he knew all this going in. I have always had a great deal of respect for Rives and Carina, less so after this episode. Having sat before the Bermuda Race Protest Committee, I have also had a great deal of respect for them, less so now.
The prime tenet of St. David's Head is that it is to be an amateur competition with clear and specific guidelines. Not only are RBYC and CCA charged with protecting the event's intergity, but so are every person who signs on to do the race. Many have failed in their duties here, IMHO.

[us7070]

Not only are RBYC and CCA charged with protecting the event's intergity, but so are every person who signs on to do the race. Many have failed in their duties here, IMHO.

Only the jury can penalize a boat..., not the CCA, not the RBYC, not the organizing authority, and not the other sailors...

[titanuranus]

Not only are RBYC and CCA charged with protecting the event's intergity, but so are every person who signs on to do the race. Many have failed in their duties here, IMHO.

Only the jury can penalize a boat..., not the CCA, not the RBYC, not the organizing authority, and not the other sailors...

But they can award the trophy to the rightful winner. Have they done that yet?


yachting World May edition page 50 - amatuer this and amatuer that.

there is such a thing called overexposure.

[us7070]

Not only are RBYC and CCA charged with protecting the event's intergity, but so are every person who signs on to do the race. Many have failed in their duties here, IMHO.

Only the jury can penalize a boat..., not the CCA, not the RBYC, not the organizing authority, and not the other sailors...

But they can award the trophy to the rightful winner. Have they done that yet?


yachting World May edition page 50 - amatuer this and amatuer that.

there is such a thing called overexposure.

Defiance is listed as the winner of the Corinthian Trophy on the NB website

[bow junkie]

Did the Decision videos ever get posted?

Thanks!

[MR.CLEAN]

No, my estimate is sometime in the middle of August by the time it's all edited together. Just got the best piece back from a debugger in France who I paid to fix the corrupt file. It got corrupt when the spinnaker hit the water...with camera attached to spinnaker.

[Left Hook]

No, my estimate is sometime in the middle of August by the time it's all edited together. Just got the best piece back from a debugger in France who I paid to fix the corrupt file. It got corrupt when the spinnaker hit the water...with camera attached to spinnaker.

This.... I want to see...

[jurrasicsailor]

I am glad to see they posted a winner of the Corinthian trophy. Congrats to the middies!

['No.6]

Not only are RBYC and CCA charged with protecting the event's intergity, but so are every person who signs on to do the race. Many have failed in their duties here, IMHO.

Only the jury can penalize a boat..., not the CCA, not the RBYC, not the organizing authority, and not the other sailors...

The Protest Committee is made up of a mix of CCA and RBYC members...and Tuna. If you somehow think that there is not a great deal of influence being applied, you would be mistaken. I can tell you from first hand experience that the pressures on the PC are palpable. When facing the jurors personally, several recused themselves because they understood that their findings would be biased by that strong influence.
As for other sailors, it is a self-policing sport. It is the obligation of all to protest where they see a foul being committed. To that end, even Carina's navigator and watch captains were obligated to bring this situation to the appropriate powers. By signing the compliance form they falsely certified that Carina had indeed abided by the rules when she did not.
That is what I meant in the above post. Sorry if I wasn't perfectly clear and to your liking.

[jurrasicsailor]

If you read the press release, it says that Kitt's ISAF status had expired in April 2010, prior to the PREVIOUS Bermuda race! It justn't possible to enter the race without the crew having gone to the ISAF site and completed the form. There are countless reminders, there is a special login section for crew on the Bermuda site, etc etc. so the mistake happened twice? I think the world of Rives; the adventure he arranged to send carina around the world competing in the most famous ocean races is stuff of fantasy. But I just don't get this sequence of events, nor the actions of the jury. How could kitt have refused to drive and yet not explained why?

[jurrasicsailor]

It is also kind of sad that race committee did not post at least a press release that Defiance won the Corinthian trophy. I would not have thought to go back and examine the prizes page, as I was watching the news page of the site.

[MR.CLEAN]

No, my estimate is sometime in the middle of August by the time it's all edited together. Just got the best piece back from a debugger in France who I paid to fix the corrupt file. It got corrupt when the spinnaker hit the water...with camera attached to spinnaker.

This.... I want to see...

Best shit I ever shot. About a half dozen of us have been trying to get this shot for two years now, at the cost of the life of at least 4 GoPros. It was worth it.

I'll cut out a little piece and post it.

[Matt B]

Not only are RBYC and CCA charged with protecting the event's intergity, but so are every person who signs on to do the race. Many have failed in their duties here, IMHO.

Only the jury can penalize a boat..., not the CCA, not the RBYC, not the organizing authority, and not the other sailors...

The Protest Committee is made up of a mix of CCA and RBYC members...and Tuna. If you somehow think that there is not a great deal of influence being applied, you would be mistaken. I can tell you from first hand experience that the pressures on the PC are palpable. When facing the jurors personally, several recused themselves because they understood that their findings would be biased by that strong influence.
As for other sailors, it is a self-policing sport. It is the obligation of all to protest where they see a foul being committed. To that end, even Carina's navigator and watch captains were obligated to bring this situation to the appropriate powers. By signing the compliance form they falsely certified that Carina had indeed abided by the rules when she did not.
That is what I meant in the above post. Sorry if I wasn't perfectly clear and to your liking.

It's a rare occasion, but I completely agree with you.
Rives knew full well of the status of his employee. Carina broke the rules. Rives should RAF. In my opinion it is too late to gain the respect back, but at least the rightful recipients of the trophy will be acknowledged. The BDA people have not made much of an announcement regarding the situation that caused Rives to hand back the trophy. This should be front and center on the BDA race home page, and it shouldn't scroll off as they add more fluff. I wonder who measured Carina for ORR/IRC. Was it done at Rives boatyard with help from his employees, using his scales? Was Kit there "working" for Rives at the time? Or was he managing the build of Dr. Laura's boat? OR was he off doing some other professional yacht racing job?

[us7070]

Not only are RBYC and CCA charged with protecting the event's intergity, but so are every person who signs on to do the race. Many have failed in their duties here, IMHO.

Only the jury can penalize a boat..., not the CCA, not the RBYC, not the organizing authority, and not the other sailors...

The Protest Committee is made up of a mix of CCA and RBYC members...and Tuna. If you somehow think that there is not a great deal of influence being applied, you would be mistaken. I can tell you from first hand experience that the pressures on the PC are palpable. When facing the jurors personally, several recused themselves because they understood that their findings would be biased by that strong influence.
As for other sailors, it is a self-policing sport. It is the obligation of all to protest where they see a foul being committed. To that end, even Carina's navigator and watch captains were obligated to bring this situation to the appropriate powers. By signing the compliance form they falsely certified that Carina had indeed abided by the rules when she did not.
That is what I meant in the above post. Sorry if I wasn't perfectly clear and to your liking.

I serve on protest committees, so I'm aware of what's involved.

I have recused myself, when it thought it was appropriate.

When I elect to stay on the committee, I do my absolute best to be impartial.

Personally, I have _never_ experienced any "pressure" from the RC or organizing authority, to render any particular verdict, or to apply a particular penalty.

So, I wouldn't blithely accuse the OA and the Jury of conspiring to go easy on Rives, as several here have done.

I said above, that I think Carina got off easy..., but just because I disagree with a penalty, it doesn't cause me to immediately assume that the jury was in any way dishonest.

As you note, the names of those on jury are posted on the NB website.

I also feel that I haven't seen anything that convinces me that Rives, or any other members of Carina deliberately cheated.

We have a few accusations, but presumably they have responses to each accusation.

While you are certainly free to make any accusations you choose, I think they would have to be crazy to even consider responding to your accusations on sailing anarchy, as there is _no_ chance of any fair hearing.

All that would happen is that the discussion would descend into an almighty shit-fight.

So, at this point, as far as I am concerned, the crew of Carina are entirely innocent of any deliberate wrongdoing.

['No.6]

7070, all as you need to do to understand why I say what I say is to go to three place online; BDA Race SIs,ISAF Code and Kit's Linked In page. It really is pretty clear based on the timeline and conditions spelled out in the SIs.

As for my suggestion of influence of jurors. From my experience the folks that serve are not outsiders. They serve because they are members of the to clubs. They are aware of what it is that the OA wishes to see enforced and to what severity. Again, from my experience first hand in the room at RBYC, one of the jurors plainly stated just prior to us all sitting down, was that he felt very strongly that we should have been DSQ'd. The room sort of went quiet and some staring occured. He then was enough of a gentelman to recue himself and IIRC, one other juror followed suit.

[Matt B]

From the UK news letter.
BERMUDA WINNERS CHOOSE TAPE-DRIVE

Boats powered by UK Sailmakers earned a significant share of the trophies in the 2012 Bermuda Race, a 630-mile ocean race. If there were any surprises, it was how many of the podium places were taken by boats with UK Sailmaker’s Tape-Drive® sails. Rives Potts’s CARINA won Class 4 as well as the biggest trophy of the regatta, the St. David’s Lighthouse trophy for first place in the amateur driver division. This was the second race in a row that CARNIA took the St. David’s Lighthouse trophy.

Still getting the positive press.
Maybe it should read:
Boats powered by UK Sailmakers and K.W. earned a significant share share a significant amount of the trophies with the actual winners in the 2012 Bermuda Race.

[titanuranus]

I am sure MattB and Peter Smith will have front row seats for this!


http://nyyc.org/cale.../26/event_4533/

[haligonian winterr]

We ever gonna get to see that? Seems like the community is rooting for it.

HW

No, my estimate is sometime in the middle of August by the time it's all edited together. Just got the best piece back from a debugger in France who I paid to fix the corrupt file. It got corrupt when the spinnaker hit the water...with camera attached to spinnaker.

This.... I want to see...

Best shit I ever shot. About a half dozen of us have been trying to get this shot for two years now, at the cost of the life of at least 4 GoPros. It was worth it.

I'll cut out a little piece and post it.

[Evo]

I am sure MattB and Peter Smith will have front row seats for this!


http://nyyc.org/cale.../26/event_4533/

too right...anyone that sails their boat east to west across the Indian Ocean and then goes round Cape Horn before traversing the Atlantic has an interesting tale to tell.

Of course it could be that the media doyens of the NYYC are as well versed in geography as the rest of the American nation and therefore it's a typo. bwtfwik

[umpire]

I am sure MattB and Peter Smith will have front row seats for this!


http://nyyc.org/cale.../26/event_4533/

too right...anyone that sails their boat east to west across the Indian Ocean and then goes round Cape Horn before traversing the Atlantic has an interesting tale to tell.

Of course it could be that the media doyens of the NYYC are as well versed in geography as the rest of the American nation and therefore it's a typo. bwtfwik

He he