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#1 JimB

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  • Interests:I currently own a B25, Hull number 10. I just purchased the boat last summer (2008), put all new Quantum Fusion sails on the boat along with a new .6 airex spin. <br /><br />Hope to give the boat a new paint job for this season.<br /><br />As luck would have it I did not get to race the boat in any 12 plus Knot winds in my first summer with the boat. I managed to be else where not racing when there was strong breeze racing here last summer. I can't wait to race the boat in 15 plus knots.

Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:01 PM

I was reading an old thread which referred to performance boats being twitchy. It nammed a few including the B25 and the Trip 26. I currently own a B25 and do not find it "Twitchy" at all. I have also owned a SJ 21, a Capri 22,a Santana 20, a Santana 23, a HotFoot 20 and have done a fair amount of heilming on a Martin 242.

I would have to say hands down my Santana 23 going downwind over 8 knots was Twitchy but fun. I broached that boat many times and I am sure every way possible. Never once lost anybody overboard or broke anything even on a chineese roll and subsequent rollover the other way when she righted. My Tuna 20 provided the next best broaches.

Any other good broach machines out there? I hear a SJ 24 going downwind over 8 knots should be illegal. What say you?

#2 Kaptainkriz

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:11 PM

Lost my windex on a Capri 30....unstable machine over 14kts.

#3 BarePoles

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:18 PM

Was gonna add SJ24 to your list, but see you've accounted for it. Family owns one and can say that anything over 7kts downwind requires dark trousers or a wetsuit.

#4 elby

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:21 PM

I was reading an old thread which referred to performance boats being twitchy. It nammed a few including the B25 and the Trip 26. I currently own a B25 and do not find it "Twitchy" at all. I have also owned a SJ 21, a Capri 22,a Santana 20, a Santana 23, a HotFoot 20 and have done a fair amount of heilming on a Martin 242.

I would have to say hands down my Santana 23 going downwind over 8 knots was Twitchy but fun. I broached that boat many times and I am sure every way possible. Never once lost anybody overboard or broke anything even on a chineese roll and subsequent rollover the other way when she righted. My Tuna 20 provided the next best broaches.

Any other good broach machines out there? I hear a SJ 24 going downwind over 8 knots should be illegal. What say you?


contention 33... (will it go right or left... oops too late!)

#5 Left Hook

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:22 PM

Requisite:



#6 BarePoles

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:25 PM

Requisite:



Looks like at 27 seconds is where he loses steerage. :lol:

#7 Left Hook

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:28 PM


Requisite:



Looks like at 27 seconds is where he loses steerage. :lol:


How could you tell?!

#8 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:29 PM

Early 70's IOR 50 footer "Outrage" . Noodle for a mast. Boom about right for a Catalina 30. Lots of tumblehome.

Bitch would roll over in a heartbeat. Very fast in the light stuff but scary in 15 knots. Equal oportunity broacher. You never knew if it could go to leeward or windward - but it was going to go.

#9 xfire

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:40 PM

San Juan 24 and Lasers are the best broach machines on the water.

And both were designed by the same person!

#10 Schnick

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:41 PM

To me there is a difference between 'twitchy' and 'ill-mannered'. Kirby 25s were very twitchy - they felt great and then the rudder would let go with no warning. The skinny stern, no rudder-balance IOR boats were ill mannered. San Juan 24, Martin 29 (and 32), and lots of other boats from the late 70s fit this mold. Limited control right from the get-go, followed by wipeouts when you leaned over that .1 degree too far.

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.

#11 Animal Kingdom

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:56 PM

Requisite:



Thanks for posting....provided a badly needed fit of laughter at the end of a long week.

#12 CyberBOB

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 10:59 PM

San Juan 24 and Lasers are the best broach machines on the water.

And both were designed by the same person!



To me there is a difference between 'twitchy' and 'ill-mannered'. Kirby 25s were very twitchy - they felt great and then the rudder would let go with no warning. The skinny stern, no rudder-balance IOR boats were ill mannered. San Juan 24, Martin 29 (and 32), and lots of other boats from the late 70s fit this mold. Limited control right from the get-go, followed by wipeouts when you leaned over that .1 degree too far.

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.


Wow that's 3 by the same designer. Did he design any that aren't twitchy downwind?

#13 Great Red Shark

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 11:08 PM

Laser ? I think you were doing it wrong ! Less board and more hiking off the transom.

San Juan 24 ? Defined the era of IOR - Inadvertant Oscillations & Rotations !

#14 gone

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 11:23 PM

Capri 30 definitely rates in twitchy category, especially once the bow lifts off. Better have the chute choked down hard at that point...

Rides its bow wave like a Laser though.

#15 Kaptainkriz

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 11:32 PM

LoL!! That could not explain it better :lol:

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.



#16 Bulbhunter

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 11:58 PM

Hands down J24 on the city front during the summer. Nearly sank it once sailing down wind flying the #3 jib LOL.

#17 walterbshaffer

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:22 AM

laser

#18 CrushDigital

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 12:33 AM

Hands down J24 on the city front during the summer. Nearly sank it once sailing down wind flying the #3 jib LOL.


You should have tried harder, you would have been doing the sailing community a huge favor.

#19 skew

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:21 AM

Requisite:


The white 1 ton with the red boot stripe is Challenge '88 at the Worlds in San Fran. I was on board! I remember that wipe out vividly. We exploded the vang. The reason the boot stripe is all messed up is because we had to make the boat "narrower" so it would measure 30.5 for the Canada's Cup. Remember that crap?

The worst wipe-out I ever did on a big boat was in the Solent on a Frers '55 Jubilation. Laying on our side for minutes I thought we were going to sink. Watching Bob Fisher swing the big wheel back and forth, lock to lock for a good 5 minutes before we chinese gybed was insane. One of the guys got a runner block in the face and nearly bit his tongue off. Good times!

#20 xfire

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:47 AM

To me there is a difference between 'twitchy' and 'ill-mannered'. Kirby 25s were very twitchy - they felt great and then the rudder would let go with no warning. The skinny stern, no rudder-balance IOR boats were ill mannered. San Juan 24, Martin 29 (and 32), and lots of other boats from the late 70s fit this mold. Limited control right from the get-go, followed by wipeouts when you leaned over that .1 degree too far.

Someone mentioned the Capri 30 up thread too - weird boat, felt like a good J29 in 5 knots of breeze but a really bad 1/2 tonner in 20.


Another boat by that designer makes the broacher list.

#21 C2D

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:40 AM

An Express 37 won me my first "If I had a Gun" trophy for THE Broach of the reagatta. Wasn't the first - wasn't the last. Funniest repeat was when the owner 'tea-bagged' himself on a subsequent broach.

#22 DRIFTW00D

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 04:07 AM

Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

Posted Image



#23 Left Hook

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 04:25 AM

An Express 37 won me my first "If I had a Gun" trophy for THE Broach of the reagatta. Wasn't the first - wasn't the last. Funniest repeat was when the owner 'tea-bagged' himself on a subsequent broach.


Reminds me of this photo sequence:

Posted Image


#24 Tejano

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 05:04 AM

Worse Broaching Bitch ever? No doubt, Santana 30/30 GP in anything over 10knots. Sweetest ride ever? B-25. That little surf machine only get more stable with each knot of breeze.

#25 dash34

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:59 AM

My only chinese ever was on an Express 34. Wasn't all that windy or badly handled either, pretty surprising.

Most fun downwind boat? B-52 - Steinman 30 in Oz back in the day. A Fast 40 is pretty good too!

dash

#26 savoir

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:00 AM

Anything designed by Scott Kaufman. But at least their spreaders were clean.

On the other hand Doug Petersen was the maestro of the skinny transom.

All bow and pray at the altar of Bruce Farr who ended all that crap.

#27 Carbontech

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:38 AM

Amen to that!

#28 Flatbag

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 01:30 PM

laser


Yep, like wet soap on ice... :(

Also just about any mid 70's Peterson IOR design - they resembled windscreen wipers when running downhill in fresh breeze.
To stop 'em rolling we would put the blooper up. And then the fuckers would roll even harder.I was just a teenage kid sailing those godawful boats in the late 70s & early 80s.... but I still remember the fear.

#29 xfire

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 03:33 PM

Worse Broaching Bitch ever? No doubt, Santana 30/30 GP in anything over 10knots. Sweetest ride ever? B-25. That little surf machine only get more stable with each knot of breeze.

I've sail hundreds of miles in 30/30 an tens in a SJ24. The Kirby boat is way better at broaching, the 30/30 handles well downwind. But I am well accustomed to steering Kirby boats.

#30 Vernon Green

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 04:24 PM

The santana 20 loves to rock and roll downwind. Fun to drive and will give you some great pucker moments.

#31 jerseyguy

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 06:20 PM

Lost my windex on a Capri 30....unstable machine over 14kts.


I raced against one of these for a few years back in the mid-80s. I used to tell my crew that if the wind was under 10 knots we were toast and I had a decent light air boat. Over 10 knots we were competitive and over 14 or so we would beat the Capri every time.

#32 zerothehero

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 07:16 PM

Laser?????? If that is your experience it was you, not the boat.

#33 Pehrst

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 08:26 PM

Was BN on a Peterson 42 (Ex. Love Machine) in the late 80's. That was a rolling machine as well. She was tillered steered and in breeze downhill we had two people on the tiller.

#34 JPD

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:31 PM

Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.

#35 Me too

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:53 PM

A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.

#36 learningj24

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 10:14 PM

The santana 20 loves to rock and roll downwind. Fun to drive and will give you some great pucker moments.


That's the only boat I've ever been on that would go spreader to spreader like a left/right combo from Ali.

#37 oioi

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 10:18 PM

how to broach guide

#38 Silverbullet

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:13 PM

Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.


And the 30.

#39 Kaptainkriz

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 02:11 AM

Like this: :blink:


A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.



#40 Silverbullet

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 07:50 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^ That was awesome! Never had seen that one before!
Epic failure all the way around.

#41 Madmax

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 04:46 PM

ERICSON 35 IN 25!

#42 JimB

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 06:48 PM

Great pic of what I believe is a Wavelength 24. This picture was sent to me with my Santana 23s name paint brushed on the transom after one of dramatic wipeouts. This pic is unreal. Two guys out on the keel and two more standing on the mast to counter balance. I presume the guys on the mast are there to prevent the boat from righting too quickly.

On one of my epic Santana 23 wipeouts I chineese rolled, the boat righted very quickly and we rolled the other way with the boom comming accross again. The boat righted again and this time we were going slow enough that i regained the helm. The miracle was nothing broke, the boom had not hit anyone, everyone was still on board, the spinaker was not tangled and in a another instant the spin filled and we were off smoking down the run still in second place and gaing on the J24 ahead of us. A sailing memory i will never forget.Fun times.

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#43 bhyde

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 12:22 AM

^^^^^^^^^^^ That was awesome! Never had seen that one before!
Epic failure all the way around.


Holy shit, that was one of the funniest sailing videos I've ever seen. Pure gold. 2:50 - "We'll be back Jill!"

#44 JL92S

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 12:26 AM

clubswan 42 in short steep waves and 30kts of wind

#45 JaredC

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:30 AM

Baltic 44 in 20 knots, when the inboard end of the pole shoots off the top of the mast track, followed by someone blowing 15 feet of guy. Side decks in the water instantly. Not the boat's fault...

#46 JPD

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:42 AM

Like this: :blink:



A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.



Recovering from surgery, and laughed so hard I though I ripped the stitches....Thanks for posting

#47 JimB

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 01:54 AM

Another Santana 23 ( Bite Me) story.

Participating in a long distance race, warm sunny day, very little breeze- 3 kts puffs to 5. About a mile to go to leeward pin.Been in a bit of a hole and had slipped to about 4th place out of a fleet of 20ish. One crew member down below having a snooze. No life jackets as it was warm and we were just sneaking along under spin trying to avoid more holes. I felt a new breeze on the back of my neck. I turned around to have a look and saw the boats behind really starting to move. Good i thought, a losers puff that will help me move back up to the leaders. Bite Me starts to move nicely then wham, big wind and we are really moving. Gets worse and Bite Me starts to do the roll from spreader to spreader thing. By this time the sleeping crew down below is yelling WTF! Knowing that things were likely to get worse real quick,(Chineese roll comming) I helped put the boat into a more civilized broach to leeward. Boat goes over,spreaders in the water. Now the wind really cranks up just pounding us keeping Bite Me pinned for what seemed like a very long time.In reality it was probably only a couple or three minutes. The crew and I were perched up on the rail nicely including the guy who was below. None of us had lifejackets on and we were in very deep cold water. I was thinking that if Bite Me went down no big deal, I did not want to die in an old folks home anyway. Then as quickly as the wind hit us it was gone. The rest of the race,(about six hours) was back to 3ish kts, dull and unexciting.

Much discussion as to what had hit us. Thinking it must have been one of those wind shear things. Fortunatly the lake had been calm before it hit and as it was localized to our area, there were no waves to contend with. We did not take on any water even in the cockpit. Bite Me just floated on her side no big deal, just another Santana 23 adventure.

#48 JimB

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:00 AM

OOPs meant to post a pic of Bite Me and my new ride SuperBee (B25)

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#49 DtM

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:54 AM

Peterson IOR 42 in the early eighties, taurus II

#50 WarBird

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:59 AM

A windward mark near shore with blow from onshore fooled us into hoisting at the rounding despite all our evidence that it was blowin' 30 + on the coure, only 12-15 at the mark. new crew (son), some testosterone as we were nipping at the lead boat and all sorts of other bad excuses!!! But hey,rinsing the windex is needed now and again, lost only one place in the snafu but we did go down hard, Laser 28.

#51 BalticBandit

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 02:58 PM


Like this: :blink:



A couple sailors mentioned the Capri 30. I have not sailed one but I can tell you the Capri 25 is something else. First, if you make the mistake of lifting the tiller, the boat just might spins in a 360 degree turn (great for doing 720's). If it is blowing and boat starts healing to weather picking up lee helm, you better ease the spin pole fast or you are in for a ride.



Recovering from surgery, and laughed so hard I though I ripped the stitches....Thanks for posting


Feel sorry for the kid driving... dad does not do a good job of coaching them... wonder if they ever drove again....




But the winner in the broach coach I think is a close tie between the IOR rated Tartan 10s (the ones that race under PHRF nowadays have more modern kites and mains and hence are WAY more stable) and the SJ24.

Now it isn't that the SJ24 should be "illegal" downwind in over 8 knots...its just that it is actually faster going downhil in waves on its side than right side up :-)


As for the T10s... I remember when they first showed up in LIS. (showing my age here) we were in the start behind them - and the race started just off City Island as a downwind in about 25knots of breeze. once we got our blooper up we were ok (it was a semi-custom 1/2toner) but the T-10s ahead of us just went down the course... wobble wobble crash..pop up... wobble wobble crash... popup ...wobble wobble crash.... rinse repeat.


And the crazy thing was that they really didn't loose much ground in the crashes....

#52 Ballast Technician

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:22 PM

Another Santana 23 ( Bite Me) story.

Participating in a long distance race, warm sunny day, very little breeze- 3 kts puffs to 5. About a mile to go to leeward pin.Been in a bit of a hole and had slipped to about 4th place out of a fleet of 20ish. One crew member down below having a snooze. No life jackets as it was warm and we were just sneaking along under spin trying to avoid more holes. I felt a new breeze on the back of my neck. I turned around to have a look and saw the boats behind really starting to move. Good i thought, a losers puff that will help me move back up to the leaders. Bite Me starts to move nicely then wham, big wind and we are really moving. Gets worse and Bite Me starts to do the roll from spreader to spreader thing. By this time the sleeping crew down below is yelling WTF! Knowing that things were likely to get worse real quick,(Chineese roll comming) I helped put the boat into a more civilized broach to leeward. Boat goes over,spreaders in the water. Now the wind really cranks up just pounding us keeping Bite Me pinned for what seemed like a very long time.In reality it was probably only a couple or three minutes. The crew and I were perched up on the rail nicely including the guy who was below. None of us had lifejackets on and we were in very deep cold water. I was thinking that if Bite Me went down no big deal, I did not want to die in an old folks home anyway. Then as quickly as the wind hit us it was gone. The rest of the race,(about six hours) was back to 3ish kts, dull and unexciting.

Much discussion as to what had hit us. Thinking it must have been one of those wind shear things. Fortunatly the lake had been calm before it hit and as it was localized to our area, there were no waves to contend with. We did not take on any water even in the cockpit. Bite Me just floated on her side no big deal, just another Santana 23 adventure.


That sounds like a broach to windward, i.e., boat heels to leeward and 'rounds up' to windward. Chinese gybes are normally associated with broaches to leeward (i.e., boat rolls to windward and 'rounds down' into an uncontrolled/Chinese gybe).

#53 xfire

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:39 PM

A windward mark near shore with blow from onshore fooled us into hoisting at the rounding despite all our evidence that it was blowin' 30 + on the coure, only 12-15 at the mark. new crew (son), some testosterone as we were nipping at the lead boat and all sorts of other bad excuses!!! But hey,rinsing the windex is needed now and again, lost only one place in the snafu but we did go down hard, Laser 28.

another boat from the design loft of the best broachers.

#54 House Salad

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 03:44 PM

Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.


Yep, and add the Contessa 35 and Ganbare 35 to that list. Essentially all the same hull.

#55 JPD

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 04:04 PM


Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.


Yep, and add the Contessa 35 and Ganbare 35 to that list. Essentially all the same hull.



Another not so well know twitcher IMHO, would be the Tartan Pride 27. I found the boat out of control in anything over 10 true.

#56 Matt DI

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 06:55 PM

Have to agree with the Capri 25. Sailed one back in the mid eighties on LIS. You almost had to hike off the stern to keep that tiny rudder in the water. Once you started healing at all the rudder would lose traction and it was all over.

#57 Maxx Baqustae

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:03 PM


Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.


Yep, and add the Contessa 35 and Ganbare 35 to that list. Essentially all the same hull.


Yup. I used sail the Peterson/Ganbare/Martin Mk II's a lot. Scary when windy downwind. The 33's were just as bad (Chaser/Buccaneer/ US) but you had to deal with a very heavy helm when loaded. We lost a rig on one of those at Race Rocks in Swiftsure. Probably in 25 knots+ and lots of current sheer added to fun. It was '80 or '81 I think but the rigs were problematic for those boats too.

I sailed a 35 Mk II in '76 or '77 that was optimized for IOR bow down trim to get the rating low. I think there was a bunch of lead or oversized batteries forward of the mast. It was wicked fast for it's rating and optimized for 12 knots upwind but at 15 knots downwind it started to do the dance. 25 knots? Friggin' frightening! In another Swiftsure we blew up 3 kites in an hour and a half. We all were standing behind the helmsman except the spin grinder so we could try to keep the rudder in the water. Talk about "blowing the vang!"

Yikes.

#58 jesposito

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:12 PM

I remember years ago watching Marty Slagowitz's Yom Kippur Clipper death rolling down the sound during the old days of Manhasset Fall Series round the bouy's.
I wonder if House Salad have any shots

#59 12 metre

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:38 PM

Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.

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#60 Asymptote

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 09:42 PM

Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down. The PT 32 or the Chance 30-30 for example. I'd never sail alongside either of those - to windward OR leeward - in a breeze. Broached a Chance 54 all the way to Hawaii in the 80's. Damn thing wanted to go to Japan or Tahiti, randomly, every other wave.

#61 Maxx Baqustae

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:26 PM

Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.


There is a sequence of photos of a an X-102 doing exactly that. They basically pitched poled the boat but I don't think it's an X-102 in that picture.

In fairness to X-Yachts that was a highly modified 102 when I talked to Neils Jeppesen about it. It was a while ago and I think it was sort of like my Peterson 35 episode with the lead forward of mast for rating.

#62 sledracr

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:27 PM

Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.


Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.

#63 12 metre

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 10:54 PM


Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.


There is a sequence of photos of a an X-102 doing exactly that. They basically pitched poled the boat but I don't think it's an X-102 in that picture.

In fairness to X-Yachts that was a highly modified 102 when I talked to Neils Jeppesen about it. It was a while ago and I think it was sort of like my Peterson 35 episode with the lead forward of mast for rating.


I remember seeing that black & white photo sequence many years ago in some sailing mag (pre-internet days). Funny thing was, if I recall correctly, there didn't appear to be that much wind and the water was pretty flat.

About the Peterson 35's, the tiller steered ones were not as bad as the wheeled ones. I can't recall too many eventful broaches on the one I sailed on, but the driver was pretty good at keeping the boat under the rig.

Although I do remember a Straights Race years ago (1982 maybe?) where an Olson 30 (Leiko II) skitted by us, only to see them launch into a series of wild broaches. I do think we had dropped our kite by that point though. We passed them each time, and each time they got the Olson sorted out and skitted by us again. Eventually passed them for good on the uphill slog to Pt. Atkinson

#64 Asymptote

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:10 PM


Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.


Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.


I forgot Bruce King...The Ericson 27 my dad owned. Yikes! Now that thing would roll you out of your bunk on anchor.

#65 sledracr

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:30 PM

I forgot Bruce King...The Ericson 27 my dad owned. Yikes! Now that thing would roll you out of your bunk on anchor.


Heh. I had occasion to sail on hull#1 of the Ericson-34 (the "3/4-tonner"). Shortly after the first few test sails, they put it back on the cradle and took a chainsaw to the "winch islands" that stuck out into the cockpit. Seems they discovered there wasn't nearly enough room to swing the tiller when things got wobbly... :P

#66 LarryE

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Posted 12 December 2011 - 11:51 PM

OOPs meant to post a pic of Bite Me and my new ride SuperBee (B25)


I had Santana 23 hull #107. Raced it for 14 years.
Last race I deathrolled and ejected the wife off the fordeck. She promply said, this boat has to GO. We now sail a 7.9, for the last 13 years.
Lot of wild stories from the 23 days. Wonder how the boat would have done with more weight in the daggerboard, like the S2

#67 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 01:42 AM

Overall, pretty much any boat will go for a ride given the right conditions. The scary ones are those that do it it moderate winds and seas.


Rule 1. Put the bow under the center seam of that spinnaker or get wet. A good ior driver knows when he's lost it and uses the last 2 degrees of rudder to make it a round up rather than a round down.

#68 JimB

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 01:52 AM

What about the Olson 30? I have sailed on one a few times in lite air but never downwind in a blow on the kite. Man, the Olson I was on would really acccelerate in the lite air puffs.

#69 Somebody Else

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:22 AM

Wipeout! Force 10 at Cowes
Jocelyn Waller's Bashford Howison 41, Silk 2.

Posted Image

The story

#70 European Bloke

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 09:28 AM

Yep, but it doesn't say there that the lads had left the front door open and that didn't help.

#71 Twitchy

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:34 AM

Cool. A thread about my boats. And I'm reasonably qualified to put in my 2c.
Just been involved with a Quarter Ton project and dare I say it, you'd be hard pressed to find a twitchier boat than some of those puppies.

#72 tuf-luf

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 10:39 AM

Would have to be a Kirby 30 off Trial Island. Rudder must have caught some air. Fastest spin and knockdown I've ever been through. Thought I'd attach a classic photo. Guessing it happened on the Solent. More of a pitch pole than a broach.


Problem with that photo is that the BH41 is anything but a twitchy boat. Solid and stable as brick shithouse...and still a great IRC machine.

Great photo...wrong boat for the thread.

#73 House Salad

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:23 PM

I remember years ago watching Marty Slagowitz's Yom Kippur Clipper death rolling down the sound during the old days of Manhasset Fall Series round the bouy's.
I wonder if House Salad have any shots


Sorry, didn't start shooting Fall Series until 2003

#74 GnD

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 03:41 PM

SJ 24 Never have so many be so scare going so slow! Rock n Roll!

#75 Maxx Baqustae

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:09 PM

Posted Image
Yup - those Peterson 35's were just on rails!!! Maybe not a full on broach coach but it would do this for hours & hours - what fun! Pole in the water, boom in the water, pole in the water, boom in the water - ad nauseum. Until it went completely pear shaped.

We used think that was normal behavior. :blink:

#76 KennyB

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 07:33 PM


Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.


Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.



+1 only with Hawkeye at 48' in San Francisco :blink: Happy day goin' 6 knots sideways :D

#77 sledracr

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:18 PM



Anything by Brit Chance in the early 70's will take the end-swapping contest hands down.


Prob'ly right, but there are a few Bruce King designs from that era that would be good bets in a rolly-polly contest. Boats like "Terrorist", the aluminum bilge-boarder built for the one-tons. Rocketship upwind, but turn the corner, pull the boards up, and you better find a padded place to hang on.



+1 only with Hawkeye at 48' in San Francisco :blink: Happy day goin' 6 knots sideways :D


Yup. and a 12" deep trough in the middle of hawkeye's foredeck kept things "interesting" while trying to stay on the boat long enough to be ready for the leeward mark.

#78 Mud sailor

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Posted 13 December 2011 - 08:24 PM

I think there are two series, the X102 (a 3/4 ton) was caught on film pitching like that, it occured at Burnham, pretty flat water and they were surfing on the stern wave of a 2 tonner (If I remember correctly) until they lost it. would have been in the early to mid 80's as IOR still ruled

#79 DtM

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Posted 14 December 2011 - 11:25 PM

Posted Image
Yup - those Peterson 35's were just on rails!!! Maybe not a full on broach coach but it would do this for hours & hours - what fun! Pole in the water, boom in the water, pole in the water, boom in the water - ad nauseum. Until it went completely pear shaped.

We used think that was normal behavior. :blink:


Oh how true. And the 42 foot versions were just more power to make it even more scary. Rock Roll. Will it be a chinese or just a wipeout to weather !!!

#80 Flatbag

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 01:16 AM

How could we have a twitchy boat thread without this puppy? MBDs infamous Sydney 40 Admiral's Cup design that was going to set the world on fire but somehow never quite kicked on from that auspicious start. The much touted $1 charter fee was probably good value for money.... but only just! Apparently, they cut a couple of feet off the back end of the hull mould for these lemons to come up with the Sydney 38.
Attached File  SuperStock_4115-2910.jpg   46.42K   100 downloads

#81 ftbinc

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 06:16 AM

1323552677[/url]' post='3502045']
Peterson 34 downwind in wind and waves....has to be high on the list.


+1

#82 Evo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:08 AM



#83 rastus

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:32 AM

At the risk of death by stoning or being burned, my old Ross 830 sensitive to fore and aft trim especially under genaker in breeze. A common scenario would be genaker up, round up, head down, crew aft, head up and hold on for dear life.

#84 mad

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:30 AM

Wipeout! Force 10 at Cowes
Jocelyn Waller's Bashford Howison 41, Silk 2.

Posted Image

The story

An awesome days sailing, carnage all over the Solent that day. :P

#85 European Bloke

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:41 AM

I think that was the day we were being towed back in a M24 with the rig around the keel. We were passed by the squadron launch with an old boy in the back in full yachting best. His comment, ‘damn bad luck chaps’.

#86 SailBlueH2O

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:06 PM

Kiwi 24

next~~~~

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#87 SailBlueH2O

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:07 PM

keel~~~~prop and strut~~~~all of the rudder~~~~

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#88 Steam Flyer

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:31 PM

Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

Posted Image


There was another Morgan T-series with a hump sticking out the side of the hull and a V-shaped transom that was a champion broacher, too. Oddly enough the Morgan 27 which looks very IOR-ish is actually a MORC boat and fairly well-behaved.

San Juan 30, the SJ-24s big sister. More = Better !!
;)

The Santana 23 will broach, aye... but it also has a balanced waterline and a 6' deep rudder. I've broached mine while sailing stupid but also done spinnaker runs in 20+ with relatively little headache. You just put the pole forward some and choke down with the twings.

Anybody here sail a Scampi 30? I have never sailed one myself but raced against one for a few years and that seemed to be a broachin' machine... it may have been the sailors though, they did not shine at spinnaker work in general.

FB- Doug
{eddit for tiypoes}

#89 The Dude

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:33 PM

My vote.....Late 70's version of the C&C38......That was brutal

#90 Bob Perry

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:14 PM

My own design UNION JACK, a quarter pounder, a pretty extreme typical IOR type with a big rig. If you could sail UJ off the wind in a breeze you could sail anything.

#91 Friggin' in the Riggin'

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:41 PM

After a particularly henious pole snapping chinese (on a C&C 99 sorry to say). A guy on another boat told me he saw both sides of our keel.

#92 DarthSailor

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:42 PM

I second the Britt Chance boats as well. Sailed on one a 38 or 39 I can't recall exactly that was named Toro. I think it was originally designed as a centerboard but this one had a fixed keel shaped like a centerboard. Tons of lead in the bilges for ballast, huge fore triangle and super high aspect main that I firmly believe was for looks only. The mast step was at least 3 feet behind the trailing edge of the Center/Keel and I am sure that put all kinds of forces out of balance.

Going upwind the boat would heel to a point and then stop regardless of the wind very stable. As soon as you turned the corner, set the chute and headed downwind the boat turned into a metronome rocking back and forth. The mast head would be going through a 45 degree arc for the entire run with periodically interspersed wipe outs. Anytime the wind angle got beyond 120 people started to get nervous knowing what was coming. The only saving grace was that the boat was built like a tank. I remember putting in a through hull and the plug we drilled out was about two inches thick of solid fiberglass.

#93 Touch of Gray

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:56 PM


Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

Posted Image


There was another Morgan T-series with a hump sticking out the side of the hull and a V-shaped transom that was a champion broacher, too. Oddly enough the Morgan 27 which looks very IOR-ish is actually a MORC boat and fairly well-behaved.

San Juan 30, the SJ-24s big sister. More = Better !!
;)

The Santana 23 will broach, aye... but it also has a balanced waterline and a 6' deep rudder. I've broached mine while sailing stupid but also done spinnaker runs in 20+ with relatively little headache. You just put the pole forward some and choke down with the twings.

Anybody here sail a Scampi 30? I have never sailed one myself but raced against one for a few years and that seemed to be a broachin' machine... it may have been the sailors though, they did not shine at spinnaker work in general.

FB- Doug
{eddit for tiypoes}

Morgan 36T. Oh that keel! Very very fast upwind against ebven the Ganbare's, but even after over 15 years since I had one I get the heebie jeebies just thinking about off the wind in anything over say 20. You name it we did it. Would even have to go to a double headsail at times when others were still fairly stable. And a blooper. Well, as I've stated on other threads, was more trouble than it was worth, and I could never tell if it alleviated rolly poly but certainly wasn't "fast" with all the fiddling and distractions needed to keep it flying

TOG

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#94 old bow

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:24 PM

Morgan 33T a 70s 3/4 Toner with about 800 lb of internal rating ballast forward of the mast. These boats are so bad they broach going to weather . Sailed on one named Firecracker, the thing will go off at any time in wind over 18 True in any direction.

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Hey! don't pick on JK's Firecracker, no worse than a PT 30 or NA 40 or even a Catalina 38

#95 The Dude

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:49 PM

Look at the back of this bus.....Just made to go Downhill.....

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#96 Timbo

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    Sail Fast!

Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:52 PM

Mull design Ranger 28.... it has the form stability of an apple :ph34r:

#97 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:20 PM

Lets take a Chance!!

I think this is the Chance 37 1 ton that we raced at the SD Ton Cup (Now the Yachting Cup), "Death Roll City" should have been it's name but it was called "Joaquin Murrieta"

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#98 Bob Perry

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:27 PM

Man, you have to hand it to Brit. He did it his own way. And, it sure was interesting. I respect his efforts. He was a bit weird but ran into him at Tinsley and we had the opportunity to almost talk, He was/is a shy guy and not a bad fellow. He took it on the chin with the MARINER thing. But he did have the balls to hang it out.

His WARRIOR kicked ass in Seattle for several years.
I think I'll just put him in my "hero" box.

#99 some dude

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:36 PM

Man, you have to hand it to Brit. He did it his own way. And, it sure was interesting. I respect his efforts. He was a bit weird but ran into him at Tinsley and we had the opportunity to almost talk, He was/is a shy guy and not a bad fellow. He took it on the chin with the MARINER thing. But he did have the balls to hang it out.

His WARRIOR kicked ass in Seattle for several years.
I think I'll just put him in my "hero" box.



Wasn't Eclipse one of his? Very quick back in the day

#100 Touch of Gray

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 11:49 PM

Man, you have to hand it to Brit. He did it his own way. And, it sure was interesting. I respect his efforts. He was a bit weird but ran into him at Tinsley and we had the opportunity to almost talk, He was/is a shy guy and not a bad fellow. He took it on the chin with the MARINER thing. But he did have the balls to hang it out.

His WARRIOR kicked ass in Seattle for several years.
I think I'll just put him in my "hero" box.


What was the name of the other one that one of the Buchan's had? Complete and utter slug. I recall watching them use an acetylene torch to melt out holes in the keel to "lighten" the thang.

TOG




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