3847 replies to this topic

[kiwi_jon]

 

 

^^ If TE knows, he certainly hasn't told me.

^ Good point on 'different leagues' - would help greatly to explain why the original application was weak.

Could well be seed money from one source and second round funding from another. The law firm is the most obvious indication.

One of the partners that TE likely referred to was, during the AC33 decisions, with a firm that represented EB when it got to the sharp end.

If LE even suspects that EB has anything to do with it, we might as well expect to see another drawn out case if it even gets remanded, and with another ass-kicking as the result.

There was an interview in a German paper (der Spiegel ?) a week or so back; he suggested that because of the money OR was unbeatable; and he is now into golf instead. Other recent articles and interviews with Kirsty B suggest she is trying to get her singing career back on track, she says flying economy class because Ernesto is not willing to help fund her campaign; suggesting to me that his marriage may be on the rocks, even if his AC and UBS and maybe other financial aspirations weren't already on the rocks too.

Hard to believe since they just launched a massive super-yacht, and KB is flying coach ? Not sure I believe that.

 

I would believe EB is into golf though, it's easier to cheat if no one is looking. I'd bet he shoots in the low 70's most every game

 

Just ask Tiger.

[SW Sailor]

 

 

 

^^ If TE knows, he certainly hasn't told me.

^ Good point on 'different leagues' - would help greatly to explain why the original application was weak.

Could well be seed money from one source and second round funding from another. The law firm is the most obvious indication.

One of the partners that TE likely referred to was, during the AC33 decisions, with a firm that represented EB when it got to the sharp end.

If LE even suspects that EB has anything to do with it, we might as well expect to see another drawn out case if it even gets remanded, and with another ass-kicking as the result.

There was an interview in a German paper (der Spiegel ?) a week or so back; he suggested that because of the money OR was unbeatable; and he is now into golf instead. Other recent articles and interviews with Kirsty B suggest she is trying to get her singing career back on track, she says flying economy class because Ernesto is not willing to help fund her campaign; suggesting to me that his marriage may be on the rocks, even if his AC and UBS and maybe other financial aspirations weren't already on the rocks too.

Hard to believe since they just launched a massive super-yacht, and KB is flying coach ? Not sure I believe that.

 

I would believe EB is into golf though, it's easier to cheat if no one is looking. I'd bet he shoots in the low 70's most every game

 

Just ask Tiger.

I didn't realize Tiger tried to re-write the rules of golf several times just before the masters - when did that happen ?

 

Did the rule changes also allow him to disqualify any competitor of his choosing for any reason ?

 

The game has apparently changed significantly -

[Tornado-Cat]

ADM, march 8, 2013 :

 

"Rather, GGYC admits that it alleged that SNG improperly “diverted revenues to its own affiliates that by express agreement were to be distributed to other competitors” (id.), which is precisely what ADM alleges GGYC has done here." (p24)

 

http://admsailing.co..._03.08.2013.pdf

[SW Sailor]

To be argued by Andrew Kratenstein - he was EB's last attorney I had the pleasure of flying with along with his wife from Madrid to Valencia.

 

I happened to have the latest legal briefs with me on the flight and debriefed his wife of the latest issues along with the number of law firms that had previously handled the case and subsequently been fired. She turned and asked Andrew if he was aware of that fact, and apparently he wasn't. 

 

Up until that point they thought they were pretty elite being guests of EB. She was pretty nice, but he was over the top arrogant and pompous pissing off all the flight attendants. Then the scowls ensued for the remainder of the flight.

 

My guess is that he didn't enjoy the races as much as I did, but he did have the opportunity to pick up some Alinghi swag at 50% off before he left.

[~Stingray~]

I bet they enjoyed that flight?

TC, wth was your point, regurgitating another far-out ADM claim? Just trolling along again?

[SW Sailor]

I bet they enjoyed that flight?

TC, wth was your point, regurgitating another far-out ADM claim? Just trolling along again?

The first 20 minutes or so were just fine, until I told them how many firms EB had already fired. That seemed to mute their enthusiasm quite a bit. They had some grumpy guy in tow wearing FWG, seemed to be full of piss and vinegar from the start as if they just dragged him out of bed after a late night of partying. Some people just don't have a sense of humor regardless of the circumstances. Reminds me of someone else. 

[PeterHuston]

ADM, march 8, 2013 :

 

"Rather, GGYC admits that it alleged that SNG improperly “diverted revenues to its own affiliates that by express agreement were to be distributed to other competitors” (id.), which is precisely what ADM alleges GGYC has done here." (p24)

 

http://admsailing.co..._03.08.2013.pdf

 

On one hand you want to trash everything about ACEA and claim financial failure, and yet on the other hand you want to claim there is some sort of "revenue" to distribute.

 

Since when are teams gross revenue participants?  Do you think LJE would be dumb enough to make that sort of deal?  It is going to be a loooong time before there are any net revenues to distribute.

[Indio]

ADM, march 8, 2013 :

 

"Rather, GGYC admits that it alleged that SNG improperly “diverted revenues to its own affiliates that by express agreement were to be distributed to other competitors” (id.), which is precisely what ADM alleges GGYC has done here." (p24)

 

http://admsailing.co..._03.08.2013.pdf

Hmmm...very interesting reading. Seems to draw a long bow on the Protocol being an "offer" document rather than the agreement/contract between GGYC and CoR, inviting competitors to enter. But the "self-dealing" accusations involving Core Composites Limited and the requirement for competitors to purchase AC45s from them might have traction....

[sunseeker]

ADM, march 8, 2013 :
 
"Rather, GGYC admits that it alleged that SNG improperly diverted revenues to its own affiliates that by express agreement were to be distributed to other competitors (id.), which is precisely what ADM alleges GGYC has done here." (p24)
 
http://admsailing.co..._03.08.2013.pdf

Hmmm...very interesting reading. Seems to draw a long bow on the Protocol being an "offer" document rather than the agreement/contract between GGYC and CoR, inviting competitors to enter. But the "self-dealing" accusations involving Core Composites Limited and the requirement for competitors to purchase AC45s from them might have traction....

Yeah and your kiwi mancrush dalton just wrote a nice article about the benefit to the kiwi economy from core. So the leading challenger and clear favorite at this point in time sees the benefit of all the 45s built for the ACWS. If this goes back to trial then oracle will have fun bringing dalton in for a depo.

[Tornado-Cat]

 

ADM, march 8, 2013 :
 
"Rather, GGYC admits that it alleged that SNG improperly diverted revenues to its own affiliates that by express agreement were to be distributed to other competitors (id.), which is precisely what ADM alleges GGYC has done here." (p24)
 
http://admsailing.co..._03.08.2013.pdf

Hmmm...very interesting reading. Seems to draw a long bow on the Protocol being an "offer" document rather than the agreement/contract between GGYC and CoR, inviting competitors to enter. But the "self-dealing" accusations involving Core Composites Limited and the requirement for competitors to purchase AC45s from them might have traction....

Yeah and your kiwi mancrush dalton just wrote a nice article about the benefit to the kiwi economy from core. So the leading challenger and clear favorite at this point in time sees the benefit of all the 45s built for the ACWS. If this goes back to trial then oracle will have fun bringing dalton in for a depo.

That he had to pay for an Oracle boat ?

[Tornado-Cat]

ADM, march 8, 2013 :

 

"Rather, GGYC admits that it alleged that SNG improperly “diverted revenues to its own affiliates that by express agreement were to be distributed to other competitors” (id.), which is precisely what ADM alleges GGYC has done here." (p24)

 

http://admsailing.co..._03.08.2013.pdf

Hmmm...very interesting reading. Seems to draw a long bow on the Protocol being an "offer" document rather than the agreement/contract between GGYC and CoR, inviting competitors to enter. But the "self-dealing" accusations involving Core Composites Limited and the requirement for competitors to purchase AC45s from them might have traction....

"It is always foolish to to make any predictions on the outcome based on a hearing. As the lawyers will tell you, it's mostly the papers that count and the court appeared well versed on the papers. Ruling expected in 5-6 weeks on whether the lower court's dismissal was correct (that's the basis of ADM's appeal), or whether any or all of the three "counts" under which ADM sued GGYC should be referred back to the lower court for trial."

 

Tom Ehman

[Indio]

I think this gets sent back to the lower court. 

[nav]

I think the appeals court will state that no grounds worthy of an appeal were presented, therefore the outright dismissal by the lower count stands. (& all appeal costs to ADM!)

[KiwiJoker]

I've tried to read and understand all the available filings.  Based on those I see the dismissal standing.

 

Of course ADM's six attorneys may have offered arguments to warrant the appeal.  Or perhaps the show of force was sufficient to prompt the appellate panel to order a reset! 

[SW Sailor]

I doubt the "show of force" has any bearing on their decision.

 

How many attorney's does it take to change a light bulb ?

 

One to hold the bulb and 45 to argue which way to turn it.

 

I think we know the direction of the threads in this case, no matter how many show up.

[PeterHuston]

I think the show of force was simple to remind the former attorneys, now judges, what it is like to have a client ready and willing to spend any amount necessary on something so frivilous where the plaintiff has no obvious experience in yacht racing, no record of participation at any level as a competitor or manager.  The show of force was only to say to the judges "hey...this one is a slam dunk to keep injecting cash in the attorney payment system, and it is of no consequence in the scheme of the universe, so please, toss us lucky bastards a bone on this one".

 

Simply put, it is a way to help import money in the New York State economy.

 

So, to that end, thank you to whoever is fronting the cash for little charlie kithcart.

[porthos]

I can assure you that the appellate panel could not possibly care less about the number of lawyers sitting at ADM's table.  What it does confirm, however, is that someone with pretty deep pockets is backing ADM's legal effort.  Six New York lawyers is conservatively $2,000 per hour.  None of those lawyers would have been at the table had they not been involved previously with the case.  That means someone has been paying at least six lawyers (and probably more) to work on a case where the defendant hasn't even filed an answer yet.  That is textbook over-lawyering.  MWE is milking this file and whoever is paying for it doesn't much seem to care.

[pjfranks]

I can assure you that the appellate panel could not possibly care less about the number of lawyers sitting at ADM's table.  What it does confirm, however, is that someone with pretty deep pockets is backing ADM's legal effort.  Six New York lawyers is conservatively $2,000 per hour.  None of those lawyers would have been at the table had they not been involved previously with the case.  That means someone has been paying at least six lawyers (and probably more) to work on a case where the defendant hasn't even filed an answer yet.  That is textbook over-lawyering.  MWE is milking this file and whoever is paying for it doesn't much seem to care.

any chance this has connections elsewhere than europe or usa?

[KiwiJoker]

I can assure you that the appellate panel could not possibly care less about the number of lawyers sitting at ADM's table.  What it does confirm, however, is that someone with pretty deep pockets is backing ADM's legal effort.  Six New York lawyers is conservatively $2,000 per hour.  None of those lawyers would have been at the table had they not been involved previously with the case.  That means someone has been paying at least six lawyers (and probably more) to work on a case where the defendant hasn't even filed an answer yet.  That is textbook over-lawyering.  MWE is milking this file and whoever is paying for it doesn't much seem to care.

 

 

Thanks for the expert take on the number of lawyers and what it means.

 

I should offer a clarification to my show-of-force post.  My tongue was parked firmly in my cheek and I added an exclamation point for emphasis. Seems the sarcasm was too subtle for some readers. 

[Finnfart]

 Six folks for a short hearing where only one can talk?   We call that inflating the bill.

 

Shrewd lawyer or massive legal firepower

 

 

 Six folks for a short hearing where only one can talk?   We call that inflating the bill.

 

Shrewd lawyer or massive legal firepower

Shrewd lawyer for his own interests.  Massive firepower perhaps, but if you cant fire it..  which you couldn't in this case, what is the use?

[jaysper]

I can assure you that the appellate panel could not possibly care less about the number of lawyers sitting at ADM's table.  What it does confirm, however, is that someone with pretty deep pockets is backing ADM's legal effort.  Six New York lawyers is conservatively $2,000 per hour.  None of those lawyers would have been at the table had they not been involved previously with the case.  That means someone has been paying at least six lawyers (and probably more) to work on a case where the defendant hasn't even filed an answer yet.  That is textbook over-lawyering.  MWE is milking this file and whoever is paying for it doesn't much seem to care.

 

So, my understand of the case (please correct me if I am wrong) is that ADM were rejected as a challenger cos it was not believed they had enough money to mount a credible challenge.

 

But..here they are stumping up with the GDP of New Zealand for lawyers to sit round a table and be menacing.

 

Doesn't that imply that there was really no prima facie case to reject them based on funding?

 

Given what ADM stands for, is it not more likely that this is a "challenge" back by someone just wanting to cause trouble, which is why it was rejected???

 

Not wanting to stir the pot, just clarifying my meagre understanding

[Indio]

The Protocol states that GGYC may decide to hold a Defender Selection Series (DSS): these fine seafarers of some repute feel aggrieved that their application to compete in the non-existent DSS was dismissed too easily by GGYC who, to be fair, had not decided to hold a DSS after all! Their other 2 complaints might have traction but only if they can get the justices to stop laughing long enough to toss a coin on their 1st.

[Finnfart]

I can assure you that the appellate panel could not possibly care less about the number of lawyers sitting at ADM's table.  What it does confirm, however, is that someone with pretty deep pockets is backing ADM's legal effort.  Six New York lawyers is conservatively $2,000 per hour.  None of those lawyers would have been at the table had they not been involved previously with the case.  That means someone has been paying at least six lawyers (and probably more) to work on a case where the defendant hasn't even filed an answer yet.  That is textbook over-lawyering.  MWE is milking this file and whoever is paying for it doesn't much seem to care.

 

So, my understand of the case (please correct me if I am wrong) is that ADM were rejected as a challenger cos it was not believed they had enough money to mount a credible challenge.

 

But..here they are stumping up with the GDP of New Zealand for lawyers to sit round a table and be menacing.

 

Doesn't that imply that there was really no prima facie case to reject them based on funding?

 

Given what ADM stands for, is it not more likely that this is a "challenge" back by someone just wanting to cause trouble, which is why it was rejected???

 

Not wanting to stir the pot, just clarifying my meagre understanding

Its not just that they were understood to not have the funding, but they were likely perceived to not have the experience.

 

But to specifically address the funding 'what-if' you are talking about,  then, as now, we do not know anything about this funding source.   We are seeing expenditures after the fact, but we are not seeing anybody put up a name, a guarantee, or a balance sheet for anybody to review.   So even now, we don't have any evidence they have enough money.   

 

All we know is they have had enough money to get to this hearing, but we have no idea if they will make it to the next one.   That knowledge is what GGYC needed, and ADM could not provide.   And today, they are doing a very good job of hiding what sources they have for their charade, and their suit.   I guess this is so the attacker can bail at the appropriate time without losing face.

 

Just as they would have done in the AC.

 

Hence...

[jaysper]

 

I can assure you that the appellate panel could not possibly care less about the number of lawyers sitting at ADM's table.  What it does confirm, however, is that someone with pretty deep pockets is backing ADM's legal effort.  Six New York lawyers is conservatively $2,000 per hour.  None of those lawyers would have been at the table had they not been involved previously with the case.  That means someone has been paying at least six lawyers (and probably more) to work on a case where the defendant hasn't even filed an answer yet.  That is textbook over-lawyering.  MWE is milking this file and whoever is paying for it doesn't much seem to care.

 

So, my understand of the case (please correct me if I am wrong) is that ADM were rejected as a challenger cos it was not believed they had enough money to mount a credible challenge.

 

But..here they are stumping up with the GDP of New Zealand for lawyers to sit round a table and be menacing.

 

Doesn't that imply that there was really no prima facie case to reject them based on funding?

 

Given what ADM stands for, is it not more likely that this is a "challenge" back by someone just wanting to cause trouble, which is why it was rejected???

 

Not wanting to stir the pot, just clarifying my meagre understanding

Its not just that they were understood to not have the funding, but they were likely perceived to not have the experience.

 

But to specifically address the funding 'what-if' you are talking about,  then, as now, we do not know anything about this funding source.   We are seeing expenditures after the fact, but we are not seeing anybody put up a name, a guarantee, or a balance sheet for anybody to review.   So even now, we don't have any evidence they have enough money.   

 

All we know is they have had enough money to get to this hearing, but we have no idea if they will make it to the next one.   That knowledge is what GGYC needed, and ADM could not provide.   And today, they are doing a very good job of hiding what sources they have for their charade, and their suit.   I guess this is so the attacker can bail at the appropriate time without losing face.

 

Just as they would have done in the AC.

 

Hence...

 

I suspect you are correct in implying that this is not a genuine challenge.

However, I don't understand why not accept it? 

If they can stump up with the entry fee and the cool mill for the '45, then who cares?

 

Either they will surprise everyone and turn up to the ACWS events (unlikely I suspect) or they will fade back into irrelevance.

By doing this, its giving them far more air time than they likely deserve.

[KiwiJoker]

ADM was not, as you say, rejected for lack of funding.  They were simply rejected.  No reason given.

 

However all the reasons have been surmised and well-canvassed here.  Lack of strong organisation, lack of yacht club, lack of AC experience in management, lack of qualified engineers and designers (OK, they did have an expression of interest from David Pedrick!), lack of experienced sailors, lack of helmsman, lack of skipper.  Oh yes, they didn't appear to have any substantial funding either.

 

GGYC was looking for a viable defense candidate that would stretch Oracle or even go forward as defender.  

 

ADM didn't have a prayer of measuring up.

[sunseeker]

ADM was not, as you say, rejected for lack of funding.  They were simply rejected.  No reason given.
 
However all the reasons have been surmised and well-canvassed here.  Lack of strong organisation, lack of yacht club, lack of AC experience in management, lack of qualified engineers and designers (OK, they did have an expression of interest from David Pedrick!), lack of experienced sailors, lack of helmsman, lack of skipper.  Oh yes, they didn't appear to have any substantial funding either.
 
GGYC was looking for a viable defense candidate that would stretch Oracle or even go forward as defender.  
 
ADM didn't have a prayer of measuring up.

As a potential defender ADM didn't need a club in a technical sense but it would have been nice to come from one.

[jaysper]

ADM was not, as you say, rejected for lack of funding.  They were simply rejected.  No reason given.
 
However all the reasons have been surmised and well-canvassed here.  Lack of strong organisation, lack of yacht club, lack of AC experience in management, lack of qualified engineers and designers (OK, they did have an expression of interest from David Pedrick!), lack of experienced sailors, lack of helmsman, lack of skipper.  Oh yes, they didn't appear to have any substantial funding either.
 
GGYC was looking for a viable defense candidate that would stretch Oracle or even go forward as defender.  
 
ADM didn't have a prayer of measuring up.

As a potential defender ADM didn't need a club in a technical sense but it would have been nice to come from one.

 

Honestly, I just think it would have been easier all round if GGYC had just let them enter and (presumably) watch them fail rather than do all this.

After all, about 75% of the initial challengers have long since failed to make it to the start line of the LVC, so how would ADM be different?

[Finnfart]

 

ADM was not, as you say, rejected for lack of funding.  They were simply rejected.  No reason given.
 
However all the reasons have been surmised and well-canvassed here.  Lack of strong organisation, lack of yacht club, lack of AC experience in management, lack of qualified engineers and designers (OK, they did have an expression of interest from David Pedrick!), lack of experienced sailors, lack of helmsman, lack of skipper.  Oh yes, they didn't appear to have any substantial funding either.
 
GGYC was looking for a viable defense candidate that would stretch Oracle or even go forward as defender.  
 
ADM didn't have a prayer of measuring up.

As a potential defender ADM didn't need a club in a technical sense but it would have been nice to come from one.

 

Honestly, I just think it would have been easier all round if GGYC had just let them enter and (presumably) watch them fail rather than do all this.

After all, about 75% of the initial challengers have long since failed to make it to the start line of the LVC, so how would ADM be different?

My opinion is that they didn't just let them challenge for three reasons.   

 

One is the not insubstantial risk that they would spend lots of money and effort to put on a DSS that either never happened, or happened without providing a reasonable marketing return because it was so one-sided.

 

Two, that the image of the event could have been seriously damaged if it was seen as a joke event between mismatched teams.   Think an F1 car lining up against a home-built car.   It would make the AC seem like an over the hill movie actor doing 'Dancing with the stars'.  Not good for the 'brand' overall, and not good for the LVC or the eventual AC as the curiosity audience would be stolen with a joke, and turned off with the disappointing performance.

 

Finally, racing against an incompetent could very easily trash the boat at a time when they couldn't afford to do repairs it in time.   Think what would have happened if in 33 Ernesto hadn't gone to wind fast enough in that first dial-up.  Shredded sinking carbon on both sides.   The pitchpole proves how much time can be consumed with repairs.  Not to be taken lightly.

 

And that last point assumes goodwill.   If ADM is actually funded by a pissed off Billionaire, his whole game would probably not be to win the AC, but rather to see LE not win the AC.   So for them, a screwed up dial-up trashing the boat could actually have been the goal.

 

The upside:  a small sportsmanship point, and marketing point.

 

IMO, not even close to worth the risk... especially given the nebulousness of the funding source.

[SW Sailor]

 

ADM was not, as you say, rejected for lack of funding.  They were simply rejected.  No reason given.
 
However all the reasons have been surmised and well-canvassed here.  Lack of strong organisation, lack of yacht club, lack of AC experience in management, lack of qualified engineers and designers (OK, they did have an expression of interest from David Pedrick!), lack of experienced sailors, lack of helmsman, lack of skipper.  Oh yes, they didn't appear to have any substantial funding either.
 
GGYC was looking for a viable defense candidate that would stretch Oracle or even go forward as defender.  
 
ADM didn't have a prayer of measuring up.

As a potential defender ADM didn't need a club in a technical sense but it would have been nice to come from one.

 

Honestly, I just think it would have been easier all round if GGYC had just let them enter and (presumably) watch them fail rather than do all this.

After all, about 75% of the initial challengers have long since failed to make it to the start line of the LVC, so how would ADM be different?

That would be like trying to enter a go-cart in an F1 race. How far do you think you'd get with that proposition ?

 

The phone number of a potential designer doesn't cut it. Get real.

 

It would have been a total waste of time, effort and resources and made a mockery of a DSS. A distraction is all this is intended to be, and they shut it down as they should have.

 

This is stupid to discuss even on SA, and this is all the visibility it's getting.

 

The AC community could care less about this.

[Indio]

A DSS match between ADM and ORTUSA would have been akin to lining up "Olympic" swimmer "Eric the Eel" against Michael Phelps.

[jaysper]

 

 

ADM was not, as you say, rejected for lack of funding.  They were simply rejected.  No reason given.
 
However all the reasons have been surmised and well-canvassed here.  Lack of strong organisation, lack of yacht club, lack of AC experience in management, lack of qualified engineers and designers (OK, they did have an expression of interest from David Pedrick!), lack of experienced sailors, lack of helmsman, lack of skipper.  Oh yes, they didn't appear to have any substantial funding either.
 
GGYC was looking for a viable defense candidate that would stretch Oracle or even go forward as defender.  
 
ADM didn't have a prayer of measuring up.

As a potential defender ADM didn't need a club in a technical sense but it would have been nice to come from one.

 

Honestly, I just think it would have been easier all round if GGYC had just let them enter and (presumably) watch them fail rather than do all this.

After all, about 75% of the initial challengers have long since failed to make it to the start line of the LVC, so how would ADM be different?

That would be like trying to enter a go-cart in an F1 race. How far do you think you'd get with that proposition ?

 

The phone number of a potential designer doesn't cut it. Get real.

 

It would have been a total waste of time, effort and resources and made a mockery of a DSS. A distraction is all this is intended to be, and they shut it down as they should have.

 

This is stupid to discuss even on SA, and this is all the visibility it's getting.

 

The AC community could care less about this.

 

But thats my point, they MIGHT have managed to buy a '45 but would never have gotten close to lining up for the LVC in a '72, therefore could never have faced off against OR for the AC anywho.

If they'd accepted the challenge, they would be like Team China or whatever, but even less relevant.

[dogwatch]

^

 

Why are you banging on about ACWS? ADM applied to sail in the(hypothetical) DSS. Whatever this case is about, it isn't about Kithcart mixing it on an ACWS startline.

[Indio]

ut thats my point, they MIGHT have managed to buy a '45 but would never have gotten close to lining up for the LVC in a '72, therefore could never have faced off against OR for the AC anywho.

If they'd accepted the challenge, they would be like Team China or whatever, but even less relevant.

 

You're way off the marae on this one, chief...again!! ADM cannot compete in the LVC - which part of LVC-CHALLENGER Selection Series don't you understand?

 

ADM lodged their challenge to race against ORTUSA in a DEFENDER Selection Series to represent GGYC - IF GGYC had decided to hold one.

 

ADM may well have been accepted into the WSL45 circus by GGYC had they entered - but they didn't.

[jaysper]

ut thats my point, they MIGHT have managed to buy a '45 but would never have gotten close to lining up for the LVC in a '72, therefore could never have faced off against OR for the AC anywho.

If they'd accepted the challenge, they would be like Team China or whatever, but even less relevant.

 

You're way off the marae on this one, chief...again!! ADM cannot compete in the LVC - which part of LVC-CHALLENGER Selection Series don't you understand?

 

ADM lodged their challenge to race against ORTUSA in a DEFENDER Selection Series to represent GGYC - IF GGYC had decided to hold one.

 

ADM may well have been accepted into the WSL45 circus by GGYC had they entered - but they didn't.

 

 

Well done Indio, you are right for once. Awesome for you!

[KiwiJoker]

 

 

 

As a potential defender ADM didn't need a club in a technical sense but it would have been nice to come from one.

 

Honestly, I just think it would have been easier all round if GGYC had just let them enter and (presumably) watch them fail rather than do all this.

After all, about 75% of the initial challengers have long since failed to make it to the start line of the LVC, so how would ADM be different?

That would be like trying to enter a go-cart in an F1 race. How far do you think you'd get with that proposition ?

 

The phone number of a potential designer doesn't cut it. Get real.

 

It would have been a total waste of time, effort and resources and made a mockery of a DSS. A distraction is all this is intended to be, and they shut it down as they should have.

 

This is stupid to discuss even on SA, and this is all the visibility it's getting.

 

The AC community could care less about this.

 

But thats my point, they MIGHT have managed to buy a '45 but would never have gotten close to lining up for the LVC in a '72, therefore could never have faced off against OR for the AC anywho.

If they'd accepted the challenge, they would be like Team China or whatever, but even less relevant.

 

You've just received several rational, thoughtful and thoroughly reasonable answers to your dumbass idea.   Let it go, for crissake!

[pjfranks]

A DSS match between ADM and ORTUSA would have been akin to lining up "Olympic" swimmer "Eric the Eel" against Michael Phelps.

unless adm had/has the financial clout to out-hire OR?

[Finnfart]

A DSS match between ADM and ORTUSA would have been akin to lining up "Olympic" swimmer "Eric the Eel" against Michael Phelps.

unless adm had/has the financial clout to out-hire OR?

All they had to do was demonstrate that financial clout.  But they didn't.  They said they could make that money from the promotional value the would get from being in a DSS.  That is a big maybe, not clout.   

 

The fact that the funding insists on being mystery money means it can't be taken seriously as a real AC contender.

[~Stingray~]

^ As do the suit demands that Oracle pay to build boats to give to ADM, then give them a head start in a DSS, etc etc, point to their inability to put anything together themselves.

Somebody is being a jackass by funding this jackass lawsuit and will look like a jackass once it gets revealed who they really are. Which will undoubtedly happen eventually.

[pjfranks]

 

A DSS match between ADM and ORTUSA would have been akin to lining up "Olympic" swimmer "Eric the Eel" against Michael Phelps.

unless adm had/has the financial clout to out-hire OR?

All they had to do was demonstrate that financial clout.  But they didn't.  They said they could make that money from the promotional value the would get from being in a DSS.  That is a big maybe, not clout.   

 

The fact that the funding insists on being mystery money means it can't be taken seriously as a real AC contender.

well maybe they do and maybe that's why they are funded for the law suit? 

[pjfranks]

^ As do the suit demands that Oracle pay to build boats to give to ADM, then give them a head start in a DSS, etc etc, point to their inability to put anything together themselves.

Somebody is being a jackass by funding this jackass lawsuit and will look like a jackass once it gets revealed who they really are. Which will undoubtedly happen eventually.

any guesses as to the name of the big spender backing adm?

[~Stingray~]

^ yawn, tired subject

it'll come out some day who the foolish one was

[chocoa]

Ernesto Bertarelli?

[Indio]

Ernesto Bertarelli?

This guy...

[Tornado-Cat]

When mafiosi get killed they allways know who is behind.

[gctales]

 

 

A DSS match between ADM and ORTUSA would have been akin to lining up "Olympic" swimmer "Eric the Eel" against Michael Phelps.

unless adm had/has the financial clout to out-hire OR?

All they had to do was demonstrate that financial clout.  But they didn't.  They said they could make that money from the promotional value the would get from being in a DSS.  That is a big maybe, not clout.   

 

The fact that the funding insists on being mystery money means it can't be taken seriously as a real AC contender.

well maybe they do and maybe that's why they are funded for the law suit? 

We are talking about the same people who had to BORROW their entry fee, right????

[pjfranks]

 

 

 

A DSS match between ADM and ORTUSA would have been akin to lining up "Olympic" swimmer "Eric the Eel" against Michael Phelps.

unless adm had/has the financial clout to out-hire OR?

All they had to do was demonstrate that financial clout.  But they didn't.  They said they could make that money from the promotional value the would get from being in a DSS.  That is a big maybe, not clout.   

 

The fact that the funding insists on being mystery money means it can't be taken seriously as a real AC contender.

well maybe they do and maybe that's why they are funded for the law suit? 

We are talking about the same people who had to BORROW their entry fee, right????

that was then maybe

now it appears they can afford to outspend ellison in court

who could this be?

[PeterHuston]

that was then maybe

now it appears they can afford to outspend ellison in court

who could this be?

 

 

You'd know...same guy that pays you to pollute these pages.

[pjfranks]

that was then maybe

now it appears they can afford to outspend ellison in court

who could this be?

 

 

You'd know...same guy that pays you to pollute these pages.

why would any one pay me when you do a good enough job your self for free. ​ 

 

btw good pic of the red maple opti out with the big boys the other day. guess rm came in fourth after adm?