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Best boat in the SA Classifieds


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#1 Great Red Shark

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:30 AM

man, there are some FREAKING SWEET deals to be had in the classifieds ! Holy Moly, it's a good thing I don't live on the mainland, I'd be calin' Big Jim to borrow his truck and towin' home some fiberglass this weekend !

But which one ?!?!

The fully-tricked out FT 10 in 'Frisco ? the sweet J/27 ? that always-cool Laser 28 in LA ? (man, is THAT tempting - new engine ? fuck me ! ) - Nah, I'm thinking that Farr 30 is the dealio - one thing is for sure, it's a buyer's market. I pity the fool trying to build/sell new boats right now - the curse of ever-lasting boats has never been stronger.

Man, I'm diggin' that Tiger - talk about yer bang-for-the-buck.

In the words of those sage social observers The Beastie Boys; " WHATCHA-WHATCHA-WANT ??"

#2 B.J. Porter

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:33 AM

I've got a pretty sweet Laser that's maybe two years old going out there as soon as I get my shit together too. That one's my kid's, mine '83 is going in there too.

Someday soon I'll get it together...

#3 Gouvernail

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 02:53 AM

man, there are some FREAKING SWEET deals to be had in the classifieds

two questions:

Which ad is yours?

Which ad is yours?

#4 Great Red Shark

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 10:43 PM

I have no ads posted, and no boats for sale. No angle at work, nothing to see here.

#5 DaveK

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:24 PM

I'm sorry... I fail to see the smoking great deals. A 1987 J24 for 18K?

#6 Hitchhiker

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:31 PM

That Laser 28 looks like the dogs bollocks to me..........

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#7 Great Red Shark

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Posted 19 December 2011 - 11:35 PM

- Hey, nobody says you HAVE to buy it !

Christ almighty, - there's a couple other J24s in there for under $ 10 k if you are lookin' for a pain-box.

How 'bout that Express 27 for 19 ? or the J/27 for 12 ? Man, if you can't have fun with that I can't help you. Several deals to be had on some of the cats, too, but yeah, you can find some sellers there that are priced a bit high if you want.

#8 DA-WOODY

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:12 AM

someone want to buy a R/P 50' light air ASS-Kicker ??????

may or may not still be in the SA Classifieds ? (but paid their dues)

light air rocket w a AC Rock-Star all over its ass like a cheep suite

All Due Respect to Both Posted Image

PM if interested Posted Image

#9 Merit 25

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:21 PM

I'm sorry... I fail to see the smoking great deals. A 1987 J24 for 18K?


J24's are ALL overpriced. You're buying a membership to a OD racing fleet, not a good boat. When I was shopping I looked at J24's, but they were twice the price of similar 24-26' boats in better condition. #1 - I wanted a good boat, #2 - One that I could afford, OD racing was far down on the list.

#10 Hobie Dog

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:33 PM

I've got a pretty sweet Laser that's maybe two years old going out there as soon as I get my shit together too. That one's my kid's, mine '83 is going in there too.

Someday soon I'll get it together...


Your not hanging up on Laser racing are you???

#11 'moondance44

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 03:54 PM

Trunk Monkey and the removable mods is very interesting. Price has been reduced about $30,000 in last 12 mos. Another 30k and I'm there!

#12 Steam Flyer

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 04:40 PM


I'm sorry... I fail to see the smoking great deals. A 1987 J24 for 18K?


J24's are ALL overpriced. You're buying a membership to a OD racing fleet, not a good boat. When I was shopping I looked at J24's, but they were twice the price of similar 24-26' boats in better condition. #1 - I wanted a good boat, #2 - One that I could afford, OD racing was far down on the list.


It's like joining an exclusive club... and like many exculsive clubs, the members tend to look down at non-members.

My wife said to me, speaking about our Lightning after getting caught in a thunderstorm, "I am never setting foot on that boat again." Since I had originally bought the Lightning to be a fun daysailor as well as a racing boat, it brought home clearly that many (most?) one-designs are a FAIL in the sailing department. Instead, I have since bought 3 boats and built one more with regard only toward their practical qualities.

getting back on topic, I'm looking at that Rocket 22 but driving across the country would add considerably to the cost. I don't see any nearly-irresistable deals, a J-27 is a fun boat and it's not a painbox like the J-22 & J-24, but it would be a lot more practical without that vestigial "cabin."

FB- Doug
{edit typpos}

#13 pogen

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 06:13 PM

Uhg, I'm still queasy after looking at the Classifieds earlier this morning. The Schock 35 with good sails for $29.5k, Santana 35 for $19.5k, Hobie 33 for $29k, Antrim 27 for $37k (half what it would have been 3 yrs ago). Makes me feel like I would do well to get 40 cents on the dollar for what I've put into my O-34. :( Good thing I don't plan on selling for at least 4 -5 years.

#14 Hitchhiker

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 07:30 PM



I'm sorry... I fail to see the smoking great deals. A 1987 J24 for 18K?


J24's are ALL overpriced. You're buying a membership to a OD racing fleet, not a good boat. When I was shopping I looked at J24's, but they were twice the price of similar 24-26' boats in better condition. #1 - I wanted a good boat, #2 - One that I could afford, OD racing was far down on the list.


It's like joining an exclusive club... and like many exculsive clubs, the members tend to look down at non-members.

My wife said to me, speaking about our Lightning after getting caught in a thunderstorm, "I am never setting foot on that boat again." Since I had originally bought the Lightning to be a fun daysailor as well as a racing boat, it brought home clearly that many (most?) one-designs are a FAIL in the sailing department. Instead, I have since bought 3 boats and built one more with regard only toward their practical qualities.

getting back on topic, I'm looking at that Rocket 22 but driving across the country would add considerably to the cost. I don't see any nearly-irresistable deals, a J-27 is a fun boat and it's not a painbox like the J-22 & J-24, but it would be a lot more practical without that vestigial "cabin."

FB- Doug
{edit typpos}


I've seen that Rocket up close and personal. It is looking very shabby and neglected. I bet you could hammer out a great deal with the owner who is reportedly fed up with the sailing in that area.

#15 B-Slick

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:02 PM

The FT10 has been listed for a while guessing that it is over priced due to the fact the fleet is all but dead.
The J27 has a wet haul, bad survey prevented a sale. He tried to sell it on Ebay for $10,000 but still no takers.
The Laser 28 is a decent deal but not great, $18,000 is more realistic considering it has been backing in CA for 26 years.
I can't believe that the farr 30's still demand so much money. There is one listed in Toronto now for around $50,000 no takers for over a year. Might be time for the fleet to get realistic on what their boats are actually worth.
Then there is the J/105 Redportleft for under $60,000. This is likely the cheapest 105 on the market and is still way over priced.
Baced on this I say BS that there is great deal in the classifieds. If you dropped every boat by 25% we would still be looking at 90% of them next month.

#16 jhc

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:26 PM

Best boat in sa classified?
The first boat posted on this forum that offers a 25% discount from price stated in their ad.
Thirty five percent on j-105s and farr 30s...

#17 Great Red Shark

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:43 PM

The FT10 has been listed for a while guessing that it is over priced due to the fact the fleet is all but dead.
The J27 has a wet haul, bad survey prevented a sale. He tried to sell it on Ebay for $10,000 but still no takers.
The Laser 28 is a decent deal but not great, $18,000 is more realistic considering it has been backing in CA for 26 years.
I can't believe that the farr 30's still demand so much money. There is one listed in Toronto now for around $50,000 no takers for over a year. Might be time for the fleet to get realistic on what their boats are actually worth.
Then there is the J/105 Redportleft for under $60,000. This is likely the cheapest 105 on the market and is still way over priced.
Baced on this I say BS that there is great deal in the classifieds. If you dropped every boat by 25% we would still be looking at 90% of them next month.


Please tell me your english class has a money-back warranty. ( what is a wet-haul ? do you mean HULL ?, what is 'backing' ?? )

You know, you guys can nit-pick all you want and arrive at theoretical 'values' until the spring, I simply love how somebody feels THEY know what someone else's property is 'worth" - it's worth what the market will bear - OR if you were THE LEAST bit serious, you could simply make an offer on something - but no, 'the fleet' is being unrealistic....bitch please.

Never-fucking-mind.

#18 Pinch This

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:45 PM

What's with the Bebe 36.7 for $95,000?

#19 'moondance44

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 09:57 PM

Best boat in sa classified?
The first boat posted on this forum that offers a 25% discount from price stated in their ad.
Thirty five percent on j-105s and farr 30s...


I';m trying to make sense of a farr 30 but just dont get the prices. They sell the resurging class aspect but 2011 BIRW had 4 boats and they were put in a class with 4 farr 40s. :blink: KWRW has 7 which is good. There are alot of options for $65-80,000. Your getting closer to Melges 32 territory.

#20 Glitter In The Eye

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:03 PM

I put in a offer on a boat from the classifids last year and the guy told me I was wasting his time and I was not serious. I purchased a powerboat at 50% list price 2 months later. The SA guy emails me just about a month ago, his boat is still for sale and will now take my offer. I told him if he cuts his price in half I will take it...his boat is still listed.

#21 jocal505

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:11 PM


The FT10 has been listed for a while guessing that it is over priced due to the fact the fleet is all but dead.
The J27 has a wet haul, bad survey prevented a sale. He tried to sell it on Ebay for $10,000 but still no takers.
The Laser 28 is a decent deal but not great, $18,000 is more realistic considering it has been backing in CA for 26 years.
I can't believe that the farr 30's still demand so much money. There is one listed in Toronto now for around $50,000 no takers for over a year. Might be time for the fleet to get realistic on what their boats are actually worth.
Then there is the J/105 Redportleft for under $60,000. This is likely the cheapest 105 on the market and is still way over priced.
Baced on this I say BS that there is great deal in the classifieds. If you dropped every boat by 25% we would still be looking at 90% of them next month.


Please tell me your english class has a money-back warranty. ( what is a wet-haul ? do you mean HULL ?, what is 'backing' ?? )

You know, you guys can nit-pick all you want and arrive at theoretical 'values' until the spring,

Never-fucking-mind.


It's a little like the guy who showed up tire-kicking to look at a trailer I was selling.
He announced "Well you know, I have to get a little off the asking price."
I knew no such thing. Depends on the value of the article, and the asking price, the market stuff, yeah.
I kinda gave him the take a hike, pal, it felt great. Trailer sold an hour later.


But good info B-Slick. Snags is a poor influence on many. I understand completely.
.Posted Image

#22 Great Red Shark

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:17 PM

Yeah, glitter - that's a pretty common scenario. I put a bid in on a FAR 1020 years ago and the estate hung onto it for another year + and finally sold it for 10 grand less than I offered. Worked out for the better for me, as well - I bought my Sonoma 30 and a home instead !

As for the Farr 30s, well they ARE pricey, but if you've sailed one you know they are a serious boat - OD scene or not.

#23 craigiri

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:19 PM

THEY know what someone else's property is 'worth" - it's worth what the market will bear - OR if you were THE LEAST bit serious, you could simply make an offer on something - but no, 'the fleet' is being unrealistic....bitch please.


Bingo!

I say most property is worth what someone will pay for it within 60-90 days or so.

If those boats aren't turning that fast, they aren't cheap enough.......

There are some select decent deals IMHO....like this tri....
http://www.sailinganarchy.com/classified/images/112011_23tri.jpg

2008 Mutli 23 at 24K....looks perfect and they'd probably take a little less (my guess, anyway)......

That's a neat boat!

#24 Great Red Shark

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:27 PM

Yep, or in my case selling motorcycles ( currently own 5, some unusual ) I'll list them for sale at a price that I'm willing to let them go for, if they sell then that's great, if not I will continue to enjoy them. I got a reply on one I listed months ago asking if it was still for sale and what "my price" was (on a powerful, very uncommon bike) - told him it was still on offer at X price (the same) and I don't haggle over the internet, - if you don't like it THEN DON'T BUY IT !

Serious buyer ? Go check it out, see what gear it includes and what shape it's in, bring cash and THEN make an offer, or: fuck off.

Easy enough.

#25 'moondance44

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:37 PM

Please don't turrn this into a thread where everyone tells a story
about some fuckwad who came over to their garage to make a lowball
offer on some piece of shit they have to unload and then were told to fuck off. Please!

Unless it floats.

#26 THOR

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 10:53 PM

hehe I give 10 % for SA members only if you get going and get the sale done NOW ....
Tire Kickers welcome, lowballers welcome ..... as long as I sell it .....I dont care how...


reason is simple.... there is a boat on the market I wouldnt mind giving a serious offer, but I would need the money for mine first to come up with that kind of money they are asking.

If mine doesnt sell, no real harm done, the other boat will sell and I go back to my original price ....
or keep mine
as I have everything in top shape and next season will cost me no boatbucks whatsoever ....

Thor

http://www.thorusa.c...sairforsale.htm

#27 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 03:55 AM

Zap 26

#28 jhc

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:24 AM

hehe I give 25 % for SA members only if you get going and get the sale done NOW ....
Tire Kickers welcome, lowballers welcome ..... as long as I sell it .....I dont care how...


reason is simple.... there is a boat on the market I wouldnt mind giving a serious offer, but I would need the money for mine first to come up with that kind of money they are asking.

If mine doesnt sell, no real harm done, the other boat will sell and I go back to my original price ....
or keep mine
as I have everything in top shape and next season will cost me no boatbucks whatsoever ....

Thor

http://www.thorusa.com/corsairforsale.htm


We have a new favorite! (fixed it for you)

#29 jhc

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:33 AM

Seriously though, there seems to be a sick satisfaction derived from posing a 'boat for sale' ad that overstates the value of said craft.
As in: it's in print, it must be so.
With free advertizing, whats to lose?
A three week maximum ad placement, then an automatic reduction, would be fun. At some point the price would come right, or the ad would get pulled.
Would get those hobie 33s off the bottom of the page...

#30 Adam9066

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 08:30 AM

Every one thinks their stuff is worth a ton of money and every one buying it thinks its worth nothing. When i sell something i usually shoot high and let people talk me down. I usually have reasonable expectations of whats stuff is worth. I tried selling my boat this summer and didn't get many offers. The market is pretty crappy right now. The few offers i got were just insulting. The one guy strung me along for about a month before he said the boat wasn't worth it unless id sell him it for 3000. Even though i stated all the problems in the add with the boat and was willing to knock off a 1000 bucks right off the rip and sell him the boat for 6500 if he had showed up with 5500 he probably could have walked off with the boat. which i don't think is a bad price for a 89 j24 that's not mint but not a disaster either. Plus has all the records of any thing bought or done to it since 1994 and most of the paper work prior to that even.

#31 Steam Flyer

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 01:50 PM

...

But good info B-Slick. Snags is a poor influence on many. I understand completely.


Snaggy is awesome

His posts are great literature

but anybody who thinks he's an English teacher deserves the low self-esteem that will become theirs.

FB- Doug

#32 Steam Flyer

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:04 PM


... ... looking at that Rocket 22 but driving across the country would add considerably to the cost.

... ...


I've seen that Rocket up close and personal. It is looking very shabby and neglected. I bet you could hammer out a great deal with the owner who is reportedly fed up with the sailing in that area.


Thanks for the info. I will drop that particular fantasy, I've already walked away from a "deal" on a neglected beat-up Rocket 22 at a much lower price much closer to home.


Every one thinks their stuff is worth a ton of money and every one buying it thinks its worth nothing.
... ...


Yep

In economics they call it the "endowment effect;" ones' own goods (and a I guess services too) are "endowed" with a higher perceived value.

That's what the marketplace does, assigns values to everything bought/sold. However when a lot of things are laying around unsold then there is something dysfunctional about the market.

I think the problem is that post-Boomer generations grew up on video games, not board games. No haggling with a computer (unless you're playing MULE). The workings of an active market are a closed book. Thus we have bank executives that truly think money blossoms in the sky and people who are convinced that waiting 5+ years to sell their house will be a winning proposition. And of course boats.

Hell, I tried to sell my boat last year and took it off the market. I got 2 actual lookers, one of whom admitted that his wife would kill him if he really bought a boat. As for offers over the internet, as far as I'm concerned they all might as well be from Nigeria. If you don't show up in person and at least take a look with your own eyes, you are not an actual buyer.

The biggest problem we have with the capitalist system is operator error. It's like when Russia removed state controls on the market. Storekeepers thought they were going to become millionaires by charging $100/loaf for bread, then wondered why it sat moldering on their shelves... funny, except the same malarkey is happening to us now.

FB- Doug
{edit for ttypos again dammit}

#33 DEAD MONEY

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:30 PM

The Soverel 33 Revolution is an awesome looking boat. I own one (not this one)and they are a Great overall boat. Hope someone buys her and races here in LIS !!

You can sail her with 2 (yes you can set it up for singlehand)and Race her full out. Draws less than 6 feet, standing headroom, inboard Diesal, does well in a mixed fleet. This Boat looks to be priced to sell and having a Triade Trailer will save you BIG for winter storage !! and NO I don't know the owner.

#34 B.J. Porter

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 02:35 PM


I've got a pretty sweet Laser that's maybe two years old going out there as soon as I get my shit together too. That one's my kid's, mine '83 is going in there too.

Someday soon I'll get it together...


Your not hanging up on Laser racing are you???


I'm moving on to my cruising boat next summer to see the world with the family. Selling the house and everything in it, wife's closing down her practice, etc. etc.

Can't take a Laser with us, sadly. Certainly can't take two. I've also got a pretty nice Opti to get rid of.

#35 B-Slick

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:19 PM

Spelling has never been my strong suit, guilty.

Late 80's and through the 90's boats where almost an investment. Those days are gone. Sellers either need to hang onto their boats or get realistic on their market value. Nothing is worth what it was 5 years ago.

#36 Animal Kingdom

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 04:52 PM

I'm sorry... I fail to see the smoking great deals. A 1987 J24 for 18K?


I have to agree with Dave. I'm seriously in the market for a 20-25' trailerable racer (e.g., SR21 up to a B-25). The few boats on the market in that range seem over priced.

Agree that a boat's worth what the market will bear, not what I'll personally pay. But many of these boats have sat for months or a year or more with no movement, so they're clearly priced higher than the market will bear.

#37 THOR

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:06 PM

Seriously though, there seems to be a sick satisfaction derived from posing a 'boat for sale' ad that overstates the value of said craft.
As in: it's in print, it must be so.
With free advertizing, whats to lose?
A three week maximum ad placement, then an automatic reduction, would be fun. At some point the price would come right, or the ad would get pulled.
Would get those hobie 33s off the bottom of the page...

got news for you its 50 bucks for 3 months to advertize with the Ed .....

truly some of the asking price is wishful thinking, but as we all know, boats are kept in very various stages of care or neglect and its usually almost impossible to see on an add what the real story is. A wardrobe of new and crisp sails for example, versus some old worn dacrons..... might make a huge difference ..just sayin

thor

#38 Hobie Dog

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 05:58 PM



I've got a pretty sweet Laser that's maybe two years old going out there as soon as I get my shit together too. That one's my kid's, mine '83 is going in there too.

Someday soon I'll get it together...


Your not hanging up on Laser racing are you???


I'm moving on to my cruising boat next summer to see the world with the family. Selling the house and everything in it, wife's closing down her practice, etc. etc.

Can't take a Laser with us, sadly. Certainly can't take two. I've also got a pretty nice Opti to get rid of.


Good for you guys!!! We look forward to hearing about your travels!

#39 Hobie Dog

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 06:23 PM

got news for you its 50 bucks for 3 months to advertize with the Ed .....

truly some of the asking price is wishful thinking, but as we all know, boats are kept in very various stages of care or neglect and its usually almost impossible to see on an add what the real story is. A wardrobe of new and crisp sails for example, versus some old worn dacrons..... might make a huge difference ..just sayin

thor


Ding, ding, ding! Same can be said for powerboats, so much is based on condition, engine hours, engine type, age, ect...

It does seem that boats in active OD Classes seem to hold their value better. J/80 prices have remained pretty constant and you can't get a two year old Laser at 50% asking price.

#40 B.J. Porter

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 07:16 PM


Seriously though, there seems to be a sick satisfaction derived from posing a 'boat for sale' ad that overstates the value of said craft.
As in: it's in print, it must be so.
With free advertizing, whats to lose?
A three week maximum ad placement, then an automatic reduction, would be fun. At some point the price would come right, or the ad would get pulled.
Would get those hobie 33s off the bottom of the page...

got news for you its 50 bucks for 3 months to advertize with the Ed .....

truly some of the asking price is wishful thinking, but as we all know, boats are kept in very various stages of care or neglect and its usually almost impossible to see on an add what the real story is. A wardrobe of new and crisp sails for example, versus some old worn dacrons..... might make a huge difference ..just sayin

thor


Also you have to figure in this economy, a "beat down" on price is assumed. Does that mean I'm going to as $12K for a Laser I'd like to sell for $5K-ish? No, but I'll probably ask 10-20% more than I'd hope to get, figuring I'll give that up when an offer is made or get lucky if someone wants it at that price.

#41 Jangles13

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Posted 21 December 2011 - 10:51 PM

As for offers over the internet, as far as I'm concerned they all might as well be from Nigeria. If you don't show up in person and at least take a look with your own eyes, you are not an actual buyer.

FB- Doug



I bought my last two boats based on agreed purchase price before I was ever even in the same state. One I bought and shipped with out ever seeing it or meeting the owner in person. The second was all lined up with paperwork before the inspection, and I brought the check to the owner. I don't agree with you're "not an actual buyer" evaluation. I'm not going to waste my time and money to travel and see a boat if a ballpark price can't be reached. As noted in a lot of these posts, listings are inflated. If I see something listed at $50k that I think couldn't be worth more than $40k, I'm going to email/call with that offer. I want to be laughed at from the comfort of my home rather than shelling out $500+ for the experience.

#42 Great Red Shark

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 01:54 AM

You also seem like you communicate in complete sentences, rather than "DEER SIR, you still have THE ITEM ?" or "Yo, IL give U 50 bux 4 dat".

#43 Steam Flyer

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 02:31 AM


As for offers over the internet, as far as I'm concerned they all might as well be from Nigeria. If you don't show up in person and at least take a look with your own eyes, you are not an actual buyer.


I bought my last two boats based on agreed purchase price before I was ever even in the same state. One I bought and shipped with out ever seeing it or meeting the owner in person. The second was all lined up with paperwork before the inspection, and I brought the check to the owner. I don't agree with you're "not an actual buyer" evaluation.


K

If it works for you, good.

However sailboats are complicated and even the most scrupulously honest seller may not have full & complete information on everything about his boat. I would not be comfortable buying any boat sight unseen, condition of the gear & the sails (not to mention inner details that are only seen with diligent inspection) is far too subjective. One man's "It's in perfect better-than-new condition" is another man's beater.

Then there are the many cases of a less-than-scrupulously honest seller. The Rocket 22 deal I mentioned earlier was just that. Via email and also by phone, the seller claimed he was very knowledgeable and that the boat could not have been better kept up if it were hermetically sealed at the factory. We agreed on a tentative price, I drove approx 500 miles there (although my wife and I also did other errands/visits on the trip) and turned out the boat was literally trashed... left open to the elements, sails mildewed, gear beat-up or missing...



I'm not going to waste my time and money to travel and see a boat if a ballpark price can't be reached. As noted in a lot of these posts, listings are inflated. If I see something listed at $50k that I think couldn't be worth more than $40k, I'm going to email/call with that offer. I want to be laughed at from the comfort of my home rather than shelling out $500+ for the experience.


Again, agreed. OTOH a "ballpark price agreement" didn't help a bit in the case mentioned above (the boat & the seller are both moved on, so I figure it's safe to tell the tale now).

When I was listing my current boat for sale last year, I got literally over a hundred emails from people saying "will you take $2,000 less" or just "You are asking too much, I've seen boats like this offered for sale at half your asking price." I always emailed politely back explaining I wouold consider all serious offers but that my asking price was far less than I had in the boat, that it was in great shape and needed no work & no equipment. Often they referred to cheaper boats I have seen myself that were soft-decked beaters which would take an expenditure of twice the money and a years work to get into the condition mine is in. I also exchanged a series of emails with a fellow I met years ago racing Lightnings, a South American gentleman who wanted to put together a fleet of Santana 23s and wanted my help in figuring out how to put mine & several others into shipping containers. That also fell thru but it was interesting to consider.

BTW it didn't sell, so the market has spoken: my boat isn't worth what I'd like it to be. So I'll just keep it and enjoy it.

FB- Doug

#44 Kahuna

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:35 AM

Paid for this...waiting for it to post


Kahuna, 1D35 hull number 11. Waterline systems faired bottom and foils, fresh vivid white bottom. Sail inventory includes newer AP jib and code zero, 2 mains, 8 headsails, 8 spinnakers. Winch handles, blocks etc included. Short sprit (2.2 feet) for code zero. PHRFNW 36. B&G Hercules with 2 mast 20/20 and 2 cockpit displays, Garmin color 72 GPS, VHF, stereo amplifier and speakers. Professionally maintained Yanmar 2GM engine in excellent condition. New propeller. All blocks upgraded with high load bearings. Head and stove rack removed but included. All interior cushions in excellent condition. Deck has a few Gel coat cracks and clear coat on mast needs to be re-sprayed. Double axle Triad road trailer included.

$68,000 obo, Located Tacoma WA

Attached Files



#45 finleyg

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 07:46 PM

Hey, Thor!

I'd like to set an appt. to come look at your 28R. I'm in Columbia, MO, so not too bad a trip. When are you available??

Fin



hehe I give 10 % for SA members only if you get going and get the sale done NOW ....
Tire Kickers welcome, lowballers welcome ..... as long as I sell it .....I dont care how...


reason is simple.... there is a boat on the market I wouldnt mind giving a serious offer, but I would need the money for mine first to come up with that kind of money they are asking.

If mine doesnt sell, no real harm done, the other boat will sell and I go back to my original price ....
or keep mine
as I have everything in top shape and next season will cost me no boatbucks whatsoever ....

Thor

http://www.thorusa.c...sairforsale.htm



#46 Flying Fish

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:40 PM

I agree the prices are slightly high to most of us - mainly because we are not interested. If we were in the market for a specific boat we would be willing to pay closer to what is being asked. (some are way overpriced but most are in the range where I would make an offer)

I made an offer on a Rocket this winter. Can't remember if it was a SA or YW or where I found it. they turned me down. I then bought a different boat. You guessed it - the Rocket broker called back but it was too late.

#47 Lee G

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 08:56 PM

Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.

#48 casc27

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:01 PM

Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.

#49 Left Hook

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:09 PM


Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.


Seconding that Soulmates is the best boat on there. Top notch in prep, layout and sails - both in terms of quality and design. The owner has put all of his (a considerable amount) love into this boat and I hope that whoever picks it up realizes what a special boat they're getting into.

It's easily worth 10-15 grand more than what he's asking.

#50 Lee G

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:26 PM



Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.


Seconding that Soulmates is the best boat on there. Top notch in prep, layout and sails - both in terms of quality and design. The owner has put all of his (a considerable amount) love into this boat and I hope that whoever picks it up realizes what a special boat they're getting into.

It's easily worth 10-15 grand more than what he's asking.



Its worth what it sells for...although this is probably the best express on the market, there is no way in hell its worth 85-90k. Esp in this economy.

#51 'moondance44

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:30 PM




Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.


Seconding that Soulmates is the best boat on there. Top notch in prep, layout and sails - both in terms of quality and design. The owner has put all of his (a considerable amount) love into this boat and I hope that whoever picks it up realizes what a special boat they're getting into.

It's easily worth 10-15 grand more than what he's asking.



Its worth what it sells for...although this is probably the best express on the market, there is no way in hell its worth 85-90k. Esp in this economy.


Wes,
You should buy it and flip it. Use the spare cash to buy some classic Italian shotguns and shooting lessons!

#52 RUMLIME

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:34 PM

Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.

why is he selling???

#53 'moondance44

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 09:58 PM

I can agree with BarfBitch in as much to say I sailed on her in November and the boat has been maintained beautifully by a a very caring and knowlegable owner. Plus great sail inventory of course. Express 37s are sweet especially when they are beating boats 20+ years newer.

#54 RumLine

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:10 PM



Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.


Seconding that Soulmates is the best boat on there. Top notch in prep, layout and sails - both in terms of quality and design. The owner has put all of his (a considerable amount) love into this boat and I hope that whoever picks it up realizes what a special boat they're getting into.

It's easily worth 10-15 grand more than what he's asking.


+1
Hopefully it sells quickly and to someone on LIS

#55 The Shadow

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:21 PM


Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.

why is he selling???


Looking for a new boat.

She was a great boat to sail on. Made a lot of friends and had a lot of great times. Nothing like what we called "The Undefeated Season" back in 2002. Really had her firing on all cylinders back in the day.
She was also great to race against. Made you up your game.

#56 Windward

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 11:20 PM

hehe I give 10 % for SA members only if you get going and get the sale done NOW ....
Tire Kickers welcome, lowballers welcome ..... as long as I sell it .....I dont care how...


reason is simple.... there is a boat on the market I wouldnt mind giving a serious offer, but I would need the money for mine first to come up with that kind of money they are asking.

If mine doesnt sell, no real harm done, the other boat will sell and I go back to my original price ....
or keep mine
as I have everything in top shape and next season will cost me no boatbucks whatsoever ....

Thor

http://www.thorusa.com/corsairforsale.htm


Uggg... loose the lightning bolts on that website and you will sell within days!

That is a horrible background.

#57 Lee G

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:24 AM



Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.

why is he selling???


Looking for a new boat.

She was a great boat to sail on. Made a lot of friends and had a lot of great times. Nothing like what we called "The Undefeated Season" back in 2002. Really had her firing on all cylinders back in the day.
She was also great to race against. Made you up your game.

I think they were undefeated last year too. Always a tough boat to sail against, he'll be missed out there.

#58 Kahuna

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 03:39 AM

1D35 Kahuna..... currently $63,000 needs to sell by summer. What's it gonna take?

#59 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:32 AM




Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.

why is he selling???


Looking for a new boat.

She was a great boat to sail on. Made a lot of friends and had a lot of great times. Nothing like what we called "The Undefeated Season" back in 2002. Really had her firing on all cylinders back in the day.
She was also great to race against. Made you up your game.

I think they were undefeated last year too. Always a tough boat to sail against, he'll be missed out there.


Lee, you were onboard when we beat them at BIRW weren't you?

#60 Lee G

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:37 AM





Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.

why is he selling???


Looking for a new boat.

She was a great boat to sail on. Made a lot of friends and had a lot of great times. Nothing like what we called "The Undefeated Season" back in 2002. Really had her firing on all cylinders back in the day.
She was also great to race against. Made you up your game.

I think they were undefeated last year too. Always a tough boat to sail against, he'll be missed out there.


Lee, you were onboard when we beat them at BIRW weren't you?


Ha, you are right, for some reason I thought he took a 2nd.

#61 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:50 AM

Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.

#62 dopo

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:17 PM

Sad to see Firewater the cook 37 on the market, but at $20,000 its a steal.

#63 Matt B

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:29 PM





Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.


Seconding that Soulmates is the best boat on there. Top notch in prep, layout and sails - both in terms of quality and design. The owner has put all of his (a considerable amount) love into this boat and I hope that whoever picks it up realizes what a special boat they're getting into.

It's easily worth 10-15 grand more than what he's asking.



Its worth what it sells for...although this is probably the best express on the market, there is no way in hell its worth 85-90k. Esp in this economy.


Wes,
You should buy it and flip it. Use the spare cash to buy some classic Italian shotguns and shooting lessons!

It is priced exactly right. The Express has been priced at $75k for nearly 20 years. Add says firm, but I'd guess the boat will go below $70k. More like $67,500.
Great boat. If kept up nicely you will likely sell it for what you buy it for, or at least close to it.

#64 Matt B

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:35 PM

Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.


Could have something to do with the new mast, sailing aginst a bunch of 20+ year old masts.

#65 Lee G

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:47 PM


Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.


Could have something to do with the new mast, sailing aginst a bunch of 20+ year old masts.


Hmm...didnt realize he had a new mast. Is Soulmates new rig taller like some of the later model expresses (Cabady was one I thought).

#66 BarePoles

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 04:55 PM

Sad day. EXTREMELY well fitted boat and a blast to sail on.

#67 BRJ

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:07 PM

Two years ago I went to look at a 27 that I new would be in rough shape, asking 15k, Owner call me the next day to see if I was interested, I replied no and explaned why. He called back the next day and asked if I was interested If he paid me to take it away, we settled on $2. Total $ to repair +/- 6k and 200hrs of my labour. Did he get fair value, Did I pay fair value, Who Knows. But his motavation was to stop paying the yard bills. So maybe we both got fair value.

Jazz

#68 Somebody Else

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 05:58 PM

Uggg... loose the lightning bolts on that website and you will sell within days!

That is a horrible background.

I loves me a good train wreck!

First thing I do is look at the source for tags like:
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 2008">
or
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Frontpage">

This one, not even that good! 1996, "Like a Boss!"

#69 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:31 PM

Sad to see Firewater the cook 37 on the market, but at $20,000 its a steal.


I was looking at her at the dock last May and, though it's sad, she's looking pretty tired.


Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.


Could have something to do with the new mast, sailing aginst a bunch of 20+ year old masts.


I've heard a number of opinions on why it could be but am not qualified to pass judgement on why, only report observed performance.

Perhaps Adam had Butch come down to the boat when it was new and do a few chants over it while sprinkling rum on the deck. WLIS Black Magic and all. Rumor has it he did the same thing to Tenacious before the BDA 08 :ph34r:

#70 'moondance44

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:38 PM





Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.


Seconding that Soulmates is the best boat on there. Top notch in prep, layout and sails - both in terms of quality and design. The owner has put all of his (a considerable amount) love into this boat and I hope that whoever picks it up realizes what a special boat they're getting into.

It's easily worth 10-15 grand more than what he's asking.



Its worth what it sells for...although this is probably the best express on the market, there is no way in hell its worth 85-90k. Esp in this economy.
Wes,
You should buy it and flip it. Use the spare cash to buy some classic Italian shotguns and shooting lessons!

It is priced exactly right. The Express has been priced at $75k for nearly 20 years. Add says firm, but I'd guess the boat will go below $70k. More like $67,500.
Great boat. If kept up nicely you will likely sell it for what you buy it for, or at least close to it.


Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.

#71 Snaggletooth

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 06:42 PM

Perhaps Adam had Butch come down to the boat when it was new and do a few chants over it while sprinkling rum on the deck. WLIS Black Magic and all. Rumor has it he did the same thing to Tenacious before the BDA 08 :ph34r:

Sprikling rum on deck sondes blassfamous, ist hat any waye to curree favore of the godes?? I thick notte! :)

#72 Old Motel

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:19 PM


Perhaps Adam had Butch come down to the boat when it was new and do a few chants over it while sprinkling rum on the deck. WLIS Black Magic and all. Rumor has it he did the same thing to Tenacious before the BDA 08 :ph34r:

Sprikling rum on deck sondes blassfamous, ist hat any waye to curree favore of the godes?? I thick notte! :)

Obea women tink chicken blood more powerful. Just saying.

#73 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:31 PM

Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?

#74 Snaggletooth

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:42 PM


Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?

Coud proove be poessitive foirce in youre life and keepe you oute troibbel on weekendes :)

#75 'moondance44

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:43 PM


Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?


If I was intereted in an Express 37, I would. But looking at some different things.

#76 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:48 PM



Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?


If I was intereted in an Express 37, I would. But looking at some different things.


So when does the TP52 arrive?

#77 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:49 PM



Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?

Coud proove be poessitive foirce in youre life and keepe you oute troibbel on weekendes :)


Spending time with Moondance44 has gotten me into nothing but troibbel. I've been lit on fire, doused with frigid water while beating in 40 knots for 6 hours, kicked in the nuts, duct taped to a chair etc. If I ever sail with him I need to be able to be at least 50 feet away from him at all times.

#78 Snaggletooth

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:58 PM




Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?

Coud proove be poessitive foirce in youre life and keepe you oute troibbel on weekendes :)


Spending time with Moondance44 has gotten me into nothing but troibbel. I've been lit on fire, doused with frigid water while beating in 40 knots for 6 hours, kicked in the nuts, duct taped to a chair etc. If I ever sail with him I need to be able to be at least 50 feet away from him at all times.

Soory foure coinfusion, I wase taklinge to M-44 :)

#79 Matt B

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:00 PM



Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.


Could have something to do with the new mast, sailing aginst a bunch of 20+ year old masts.


Hmm...didnt realize he had a new mast. Is Soulmates new rig taller like some of the later model expresses (Cabady was one I thought).

Nope. Same size.
THe MK II version had a taller mast, shorter keel and weighed 1200lbs more.

#80 dopo

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 08:53 PM

Is he selling to get something else?

#81 One eye Jack

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:17 PM

1324414927[/url]' post='3515612']
The FT10 has been listed for a while guessing that it is over priced due to the fact the fleet is all but dead.
The J27 has a wet haul, bad survey prevented a sale. He tried to sell it on Ebay for $10,000 but still no takers.
The Laser 28 is a decent deal but not great, $18,000 is more realistic considering it has been backing in CA for 26 years.
I can't believe that the farr 30's still demand so much money. There is one listed in Toronto now for around $50,000 no takers for over a year. Might be time for the fleet to get realistic on what their boats are actually worth.
Then there is the J/105 Redportleft for under $60,000. This is likely the cheapest 105 on the market and is still way over priced.
Baced on this I say BS that there is great deal in the classifieds. If you dropped every boat by 25% we would still be looking at 90% of them next month.


So true..there are those that are proud of their boat..and will never sell it because of the price..and then there are realists that realize what there boat really is worth...they will sell their boat. And everybody will be happy..There are two great days in a boat owners life..the day they buy..and the day that the check clears and you see the boat sail off into the sunset..most of these boats in the classified the owners are still awful proud of their boat..and it shows by being in the classified week after week...then some boats you couldn't give away because they are junk...


#82 One eye Jack

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:28 PM

1330637205[/url]' post='3607294']

1330636169[/url]' post='3607262']

1330635703[/url]' post='3607248']

1330635369[/url]' post='3607240']
Best boat for sale in the classifieds is the Express 37 Soulmates, although it breaks my heart to see her on the market.


Have to agree with that. However, the 44 foot S&S from 1960 looks very sweet in a classical kind of way. And it's local to me, too...I must look away, quickly.


Seconding that Soulmates is the best boat on there. Top notch in prep, layout and sails - both in terms of quality and design. The owner has put all of his (a considerable amount) love into this boat and I hope that whoever picks it up realizes what a special boat they're getting into.

It's easily worth 10-15 grand more than what he's asking.



Its worth what it sells for...although this is probably the best express on the market, there is no way in hell its worth 85-90k. Esp in this economy.


Just for something to think about..Express 37s sold for base price of 75,000 when they were brand new...no matter what was done to it or what sails..a 30 year old boat isn't worth what was when new...just like all that chrome on the 10 year old car..doesn't make it worth more...everybody has their favorite sails and they almost never come with the boat...and everything else...a boat is the arm of the owner..not the new owner..you may have put in a ton of money..but what happens if I don't like it.that is the problem putting tons of your ideas and likes in a boat hat you will sell.

#83 Windward

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:48 PM


Uggg... loose the lightning bolts on that website and you will sell within days!

That is a horrible background.

I loves me a good train wreck!

First thing I do is look at the source for tags like:
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Word 2008">
or
<meta name=Generator content="Microsoft Frontpage">

This one, not even that good! 1996, "Like a Boss!"


Shoot... even a Front Page 2000 textured background would be better. Remember the parchment paper background? That used to be the meow.

Site is table based as well. Bonus!

#84 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 09:55 PM




Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.


Could have something to do with the new mast, sailing aginst a bunch of 20+ year old masts.


Hmm...didnt realize he had a new mast. Is Soulmates new rig taller like some of the later model expresses (Cabady was one I thought).

Nope. Same size.
THe MK II version had a taller mast, shorter keel and weighed 1200lbs more.


Did the extra SA make up for the extra 1200lbs?

#85 Lee G

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:04 PM





Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.


Could have something to do with the new mast, sailing aginst a bunch of 20+ year old masts.


Hmm...didnt realize he had a new mast. Is Soulmates new rig taller like some of the later model expresses (Cabady was one I thought).

Nope. Same size.
THe MK II version had a taller mast, shorter keel and weighed 1200lbs more.


Did the extra SA make up for the extra 1200lbs?


They sailed OD with the others, and I think both designs rated PHRF 72...

#86 'moondance44

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:13 PM




Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?

Coud proove be poessitive foirce in youre life and keepe you oute troibbel on weekendes :)


Spending time with Moondance44 has gotten me into nothing but troibbel. I've been lit on fire, doused with frigid water while beating in 40 knots for 6 hours, kicked in the nuts, duct taped to a chair etc. If I ever sail with him I need to be able to be at least 50 feet away from him at all times.


Pity you didnt sail on Moondance. I think with enough time we could have cured you!
(and above is exageration. I never kicked you in the nuts. the rest I admit).

#87 Left Hook

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 11:28 PM





Hey fuckhead,
Who do you think you are to contradict my friend Wes on prevously owned Express 37 pricing?
Or on anything for that matter? Jesus some people are know-it-alls.


How about you buy it Cliff?

Coud proove be poessitive foirce in youre life and keepe you oute troibbel on weekendes :)


Spending time with Moondance44 has gotten me into nothing but troibbel. I've been lit on fire, doused with frigid water while beating in 40 knots for 6 hours, kicked in the nuts, duct taped to a chair etc. If I ever sail with him I need to be able to be at least 50 feet away from him at all times.


Pity you didnt sail on Moondance. I think with enough time we could have cured you!
(and above is exageration. I never kicked you in the nuts. the rest I admit).


That's true, you just tied me into the deck chair so that other guys 5 year old kid could boot me in my fun zone.

#88 Matt B

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 12:04 AM

So now you refer to your nuts as the fun zone. Or is that only when you are talking about five year olds touching them?

#89 The Shadow

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.

Not exactly true. Soulmates outpoints other Express 37s in light air but not necessarily in heavy air. There are a couple of reasons for this. One reason is her upper spreaders are shorter than stock/standard. Now a lot of other 37s have made this modification, but not all. Second is that back in the day we did a real lot of testing as to where to put the rig in the boat. Moving both the butt about and playing with the headstay. She carries the longest headstay of any Express in the LIS area and I suspect pretty much anywhere. Third we worked a great deal with headsail shape....because we could. KK would design them and I would build the skins. Some joke about pulling tissues out of a tissue box. Lastly, her keel is a bit fatter than most other Express 37s. Adam and I went and measured many Express keels back in the late 90s and realized that the cord shape was a bit bolder than other keels. I seem to recall at that time Troubie had a significantly shaved keel that The Squirrel had his way with. Lora Ann was about standard at that time, as was Draco and a couple of others. There is a reason for this beyond foil shape, or rather it is a function of something other than just foil shape. Not for me to divulge the secret behind that though. Nothing bad really (don't want to leave anyone thinking there is anything wrong with the old girl), just something Schu had done to the boat for the Transpac.
Soulmates had the height advantage in up to 10 knots. Troubie excelled in 11-13 or 14 and Lora Ann outpointed everyone in 14 on up. Stands to reason that sailing in WLIS that the ability to outpoint your competition in prevailing conditions is going to get you more pickle dishes.

#90 The Shadow

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:27 PM



Which reminds me... for some crazy reason the boat points like a demon. When going up against other well sailed Express 37's Soulmates is very very able to point well. Perhaps it's partially because the owner is an excellent helmsman or just something special about the boat but it's incredibly impressive.

Just another awesome feature of a really cool boat.


Could have something to do with the new mast, sailing aginst a bunch of 20+ year old masts.


Hmm...didnt realize he had a new mast. Is Soulmates new rig taller like some of the later model expresses (Cabady was one I thought).

The rig was swapped out, along with all the standing rigging (IIRC) a few years back. Basically Ballenger built the new spar off of the same rig plan as the original spars. The only real difference is the original section that was used is no longer available. The spar section shape looks to be identical but there is a very slight difference in the extrusion. From sailing on the boat with both the old mast and the new, there was little difference in boat performance.
I will say the new section was easier to tune. The old one had a warp to it from when the boat was transported cross country (my suspicion). It made it very difficult to get the spar to look straight when static. I have a lot of gray hair from that original spar. When I first tuned the new rig, it took me about 15 minutes to dial it in.....bing, bang, boom, done.
Funny story, we often would send Adam out for coffee when we wanted to do things to the boat that had the potential to upset him. As Jim M. used to say, "Adam, why don't you go get us some coffee, there are some things owners just shouldn't see". So Adam pops off. We get the spar off the rack and lay it out on two low horses, warpped side up. Precious and I get up on the spar and start jumping up and down on it to try and bend it true again. Adam returns in the middle of this exercise. I think it was Noodles who went with him for the coffee run. Adam asks us what the hell we are doing to his mast. We explain it to him, adjust the saw horse positions and get back on the spar just showing no mercy to the thing. Precious and I together weighed like 400-410 or so at the time. Noodles joins us so now we have the better part of 625 pound standing mid panel on the spar and bouncing it up and down. Adam finally getting over the shock of watching three apes wanging his mast, joins us bringing the total weight on the spar to about 775 lbs. Nearly got the sucker straight. Still had a little something going on, but it was much easier to tune after that. Probably could have gotten it true again, just didn't want to push our luck. Seem to recall Kurt Larson both laughing his ass off and loving it all at the same time.

#91 The Shadow

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

Perhaps Adam had Butch come down to the boat when it was new and do a few chants over it while sprinkling rum on the deck. WLIS Black Magic and all. Rumor has it he did the same thing to Tenacious before the BDA 08 :ph34r:


Actually Soulmates was a tough ride originally. She was a solid fourth place boat that Rich and Mort did not take too seriously. It took a great deal of work to get her into podium form. Same was true of Tenacious actually.
Uncle Charlie had little to do with it.

#92 The Shadow

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 02:55 PM

I think they were undefeated last year too. Always a tough boat to sail against, he'll be missed out there.


Actually The Undefeated Season was pretty close to perfect. We were trailing Cabady in Greenwich Cup Spring (IIRC). We had been playing with the first experimental Ultra genoa. Not racing with it, just sailing about, to and from regattas. The thing was butt ugly. Real proto-type look to it. Yarns all over the place. Puddles of glue. Anyhow Matt and his dad were having a great regatta. Our fate was sealed with a second. Only chance was for Cabady to come in DFL and for us to win the final race. No one could challenge us for second. So we put up the Ultra jib and proceed to lap our division in a very funky race that had us beating across the sound to Bayville, then running back towards Penningo, on a very damp and gray day. Boat is flying, deep into the divisions ahead of us. I remember Mark Plouch making fun of the sail when we first hoisted it (did I mention it was butt ugly?).... before we throttled him. Anyhow we win the race by a very large margin but Cabady held on to win the series with a point or two in hand. Get back to the tent at Riverside and Plouch comes over and apologizes for the comments on the water. Something about not being able to believe how fast we were. We are all grins realizing we now had a secret weapon. Anyhow we then finished 1st in division and 2nd overall in the BIR (crossing the finish line overlapped with Lora Ann) and then didn't lose another race (like 25+ or so) for the remainder of the season. Between the experimental jib just being plain fast and the boat believing we could not lose, we were untouchable. Come MBFS we didn't have to sail the last day. Decided not to sail the final race just for shits and giggles of shadowing the fleet as they raced to see who would come in second. More bullets that season then should be legal.

#93 btbotfa

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

Bowman and main trimmer come with the boat, they refuse to leave

#94 The Shadow

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 04:52 PM

I'd be inclined to jump back aboard her too for a couple of sails.

#95 PurpleOnion

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 08:05 PM

So now you refer to your nuts as the fun zone. Or is that only when you are talking about five year olds touching them?


Ouch!

#96 The Shadow

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 12:12 PM

Just listed my Hylas 42 for sale in the SA Classifieds.
Frers design, great offshore boat.
Give me a shout if you might be interested.

#97 'moondance44

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:25 PM

Just listed my Hylas 42 for sale in the SA Classifieds.
Frers design, great offshore boat.
Give me a shout if you might be interested.


What's it rate?

#98 Mike in CT

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 02:28 PM

did someone buy the viper 830?

where did it go?

#99 BarePoles

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:13 PM

Just listed my Hylas 42 for sale in the SA Classifieds.
Frers design, great offshore boat.
Give me a shout if you might be interested.


Buying the Express?

#100 bulbouskeel

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 07:39 PM


I'm sorry... I fail to see the smoking great deals. A 1987 J24 for 18K?


J24's are ALL overpriced. You're buying a membership to a OD racing fleet, not a good boat. When I was shopping I looked at J24's, but they were twice the price of similar 24-26' boats in better condition. #1 - I wanted a good boat, #2 - One that I could afford, OD racing was far down on the list.




Good J24s are hard to find though. Lots of bad ones for sale; very few goodies. We made the mistake of buying a late 3xxx boat a few years ago for $12.5k, and by the time I got it up to nick, to the level of credibly performing at the regional level, it cost exactly twice that. UV'd halyards parted, hardware failed, nonskid had to be totally redone -- what a nightmare. Then, on top of that, I had to get sails. Then I had to get the trailer brought up to snuff for long hauls. Yikes!! Any measured J24 that has faired foils, newish sails, and most of all a great trailer, while it may not look much different than a cheaper one, is THE way to go. Would not make that mistake again, with any boat. You get what you pay for -- we are the poster children for that. A really good J24 is a cool thing. A bad one is just not worth showing up for regattas in -- let alone the Worlds in September. It is downright impossible to hold a lane against the well-prepped boats without a really dialed-in boat.

The other factor, I suppose, that drives up prices is that their resale value is mighty good compared to most keelboats that size. Nothing's sorrier than seeing a unique 20-something foot boat for sale for years and years and years. They don't store all that well!!!

Bottom line though -- it's nice to see the economy coming back. We can all actually look forward to sailing again.




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