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#901 SimonN

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:17 AM

First impressions of the cat's hulls and platform are that it looks heavier that Team NZ's first cat, NZL2, has low freeboard forward of the wingsail, and a lot of rocker in the hulls, looking to generate lift from their daggerboards.

I think your analysis might be mistake. Although it is hard to find pictures from exactly the right angle, i have been playing in photoshop and I have just about convinced myself that ETNZ has more rocker. It's hard to be sure because of 2 factors. First, there are the issues of the angle of the phots, plus the ETNZ boat is healing. Second, the ETNZ rocker is very unusual, having the concave sections in the bow and transom. This completely changes the way the rocker looks.

I suspect that the ETNZ rocker is about tacking and gybing. When they go 2 hulled, the extra bouyancy and the rocker profile will dramtically reduce the waterline and this will mean the boat will spin fast.On one hull, the extra weigh it has to carry (full weight of the boat) plus the rig loads will mean that the waterline will be full length. The issue is whether there is a penalty for the concave rocker but I bet the other design teams will be crunching numbers on this.

As for the weight, sorry, but I really don't know how you can say that from those photos, and I doubt there will be any actual difference in this respect. I suspect you are being fooled by the wrapping of the structure.

My initial impression is that the ETNZ boat is all functionality over looks while the Artemis boat looks very "Gucci". It's slick and has got some great detailing that's visible even in these pictures. We have no idea if it is the right shape, but I get the impression that it will set the standard in terms of detailing.

#902 Monster Mash

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:21 AM


why arrival at Pier 80???


Oakland Estuary---
Looks like the container depot near the base of the Bay Bridge just across from the way from the Alameda Artemis base.
Probably the closest official point of entry to Artemis' operations.


I think it was off loaded at the end of pier 80.
check the stack and structure at the stern of the cargo ship and compare to the two pics I posted.

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#903 Dixie

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:25 AM

^ I stand corrected. I didn't think they'd offload at the Oracle base.

#904 familysailor

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:04 AM

Could be right MM. Who took the photos? They should know where they were.....

#905 SW Sailor

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 05:15 AM


First impressions of the cat's hulls and platform are that it looks heavier that Team NZ's first cat, NZL2, has low freeboard forward of the wingsail, and a lot of rocker in the hulls, looking to generate lift from their daggerboards.

I think your analysis might be mistake. Although it is hard to find pictures from exactly the right angle, i have been playing in photoshop and I have just about convinced myself that ETNZ has more rocker. It's hard to be sure because of 2 factors. First, there are the issues of the angle of the phots, plus the ETNZ boat is healing. Second, the ETNZ rocker is very unusual, having the concave sections in the bow and transom. This completely changes the way the rocker looks.

I suspect that the ETNZ rocker is about tacking and gybing. When they go 2 hulled, the extra bouyancy and the rocker profile will dramtically reduce the waterline and this will mean the boat will spin fast.On one hull, the extra weigh it has to carry (full weight of the boat) plus the rig loads will mean that the waterline will be full length. The issue is whether there is a penalty for the concave rocker but I bet the other design teams will be crunching numbers on this.

As for the weight, sorry, but I really don't know how you can say that from those photos, and I doubt there will be any actual difference in this respect. I suspect you are being fooled by the wrapping of the structure.

My initial impression is that the ETNZ boat is all functionality over looks while the Artemis boat looks very "Gucci". It's slick and has got some great detailing that's visible even in these pictures. We have no idea if it is the right shape, but I get the impression that it will set the standard in terms of detailing.

Increased rocker would help facilitate faster more efficient tacks in my opinion. Probably a design decision based on the speed of the boats and the course boundaries, confirmed by GD's comment about how many times they expected to be tacking on the defined course - they'res a number out there somewhere.

That was my first impression.

#906 knarly34

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:00 AM

Pretty cool. I dont know much but I reckon this one looks more sleek that ETNZ's. This is what I imagined a AC72 to look like. The way the hulls look on NZL2 esp the blunt aft ends. Yuck

#907 BigSquid

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:17 AM

I'm with knarly34, looks like a 72' A-Cat. Hull forms are full and rectangular from midsection to stern and look good to work with the lift generated by the foils.

#908 Tony-F18

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:26 AM

This doesnt seem to have much spare volume in the bows, also looks like the front beam is further forward compared to NZilla.
Only counting two grinding pedestalls per hull, rest is hydraulic?

Does it have a name yet? Any suggestions? :)

#909 Alpina

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 07:39 AM

There's something not shown in these pictures regarding missing grinding pedistals...

#910 k2mav

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:28 AM

Spray rails look neat, but super draggy - not sure how they got through the brief. If they are there to help keep the bow up, I'd be saying it is too late by then!


Spray rails are NOT to keep the bow up, just to reduce wetted surface. Check Fischer comments on that.

#911 brian weslake

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 09:35 AM


First impressions of the cat's hulls and platform are that it looks heavier that Team NZ's first cat, NZL2, has low freeboard forward of the wingsail, and a lot of rocker in the hulls, looking to generate lift from their daggerboards.

I think your analysis might be mistake. Although it is hard to find pictures from exactly the right angle, i have been playing in photoshop and I have just about convinced myself that ETNZ has more rocker. It's hard to be sure because of 2 factors. First, there are the issues of the angle of the phots, plus the ETNZ boat is healing. Second, the ETNZ rocker is very unusual, having the concave sections in the bow and transom. This completely changes the way the rocker looks.

I suspect that the ETNZ rocker is about tacking and gybing. When they go 2 hulled, the extra bouyancy and the rocker profile will dramtically reduce the waterline and this will mean the boat will spin fast.On one hull, the extra weigh it has to carry (full weight of the boat) plus the rig loads will mean that the waterline will be full length. The issue is whether there is a penalty for the concave rocker but I bet the other design teams will be crunching numbers on this.

As for the weight, sorry, but I really don't know how you can say that from those photos, and I doubt there will be any actual difference in this respect. I suspect you are being fooled by the wrapping of the structure.

My initial impression is that the ETNZ boat is all functionality over looks while the Artemis boat looks very "Gucci". It's slick and has got some great detailing that's visible even in these pictures. We have no idea if it is the right shape, but I get the impression that it will set the standard in terms of detailing.


Good analysis Simon. It's hard to tell but some of the shots of the Artemis boat look like some concave in the run aft, so it may not just be the kiwis that are trying that. Artemis looks like it has a lot less freeboard overall than the kiwis, particularly in the bow, and this may come back to bite Juan K on the arse. Given his reputation, the boat is surprisingly unsurprising.

#912 Alpina

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:47 AM

FYI, what you see as white in these pictures is protective plastic probably, look for these parts of the boat to be black later on.

#913 VOR_Fan

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:47 PM

Interesting the position of the daggerboards, at the Waterline pointing inside the hull...lifting foils?? ;)

#914 GauchoGreg

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 01:59 PM


Spray rails look neat, but super draggy - not sure how they got through the brief. If they are there to help keep the bow up, I'd be saying it is too late by then!


Spray rails are NOT to keep the bow up, just to reduce wetted surface. Check Fischer comments on that.


I was going to say this. Makes a lot of sense. Not only wetted surface for friction, but wetted surface with weight, pulling bows downward.

#915 hoom

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:27 PM

A surprise to see this!
Did not expect to see non-US team launch in US.

I would say Artemis has considerably lower freeboard than TNZ, much lower coamings

Am I bad because the first thing I thought of when seeing it was this?
Posted Image

#916 k2mav

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 02:29 PM



Spray rails look neat, but super draggy - not sure how they got through the brief. If they are there to help keep the bow up, I'd be saying it is too late by then!


Spray rails are NOT to keep the bow up, just to reduce wetted surface. Check Fischer comments on that.


I was going to say this. Makes a lot of sense. Not only wetted surface for friction, but wetted surface with weight, pulling bows downward.


Search for "Martin Fischer Interview" and he'll explain like it is.

#917 JWR

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 03:58 PM

Honestly, I thought of this... Posted Image


A surprise to see this!
Did not expect to see non-US team launch in US.

I would say Artemis has considerably lower freeboard than TNZ, much lower coamings

Am I bad because the first thing I thought of when seeing it was this?
Posted Image



#918 jhc

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 04:08 PM

Beam forward geometry, with the sailplan, and foils, all forward. Relative to the 45s and TNZ. Shows a reliance on the foils for creating dynamic lift to keep the boat on fore and aft trim. Also, the foil forward will help to keep the rudders in the flow, as the boat will have more resistance to nose stands.
A radical departure from the accepted catamaran proportions. More in line with the newest generation of G class trimarans. (without the center hull) I would expect to see more aft wing rake than TNZ.

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#919 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 10:33 PM

http://www.catsailingnews.com/

#920 southseasbill

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Posted 22 August 2012 - 11:06 PM

Keep an eye out for the daggerboards. Remember you can tell if they are real or fake by noticing whether or not they are painted with the special mat finish paint. I know its true because I read it right here in the AC anarchy section.

#921 hoom

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:31 AM

In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image

#922 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:43 AM

^ Good spot. Agreed, and there may be a beam connecting between the Y arms, similar to NZilla but may be positioned farther aft.

#923 the paradox of thrift

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:15 AM

In the fullness of time the wrapping around the rigging will be shown to be a mistake. Juan K really screwed up with the bubble wrap. It's also heavy. If they're at all serious about competing in this cup they will have to re-think that.

#924 WetHog

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:26 AM

Honestly, I thought of this... Posted Image



A surprise to see this!
Did not expect to see non-US team launch in US.

I would say Artemis has considerably lower freeboard than TNZ, much lower coamings

Am I bad because the first thing I thought of when seeing it was this?
Posted Image


I thought of this when I saw the first picture of AR's 72:

Posted Image

Posted Image

Seriously though, AR's 72 is a beauty. Just kept saying "Wow" over and over. I don't care if its fast. It is simply beautiful. As others have said, what I expected a AC72 to look like.

WetHog :ph34r:

#925 kiwi_jon

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:27 AM

^^^

but just think of the therapeutic benefits of popping the bubbles while the others sail around you. JuanK seems to have thought of everything, including the mental health of the crew. :D

#926 optisailor1045

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:28 AM



From at the AC.com link,
--

"We saw the defender go by with their foiling boards today, so that was pretty interesting to see."

Hutchinson also said the Artemis Racing AC72 is in transit to San Francisco but it was too early to give an indication of a possible launch date.

--


Wonder if he took some pics? Photoshopped and everything


Photo shopping the foils is pretty easy, it's getting the "launch wave" just right that's tricky.


I have a reliable source that in the near future the ac 45s will all be switching to L foils and t foil rudders

#927 WetHog

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 01:32 AM

In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image


Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

WetHog :ph34r:

#928 Catatonic

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:03 AM

its so you see out when using the head.

#929 eric e

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:41 AM

the 4 white uprights, pedestals for the grinders?

just need to add handles?

#930 the paradox of thrift

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 02:47 AM

I thought of this when I saw the first picture of AR's 72:

Posted Image

#931 Tritanic

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:30 AM

Does their compression gurder run strait through or split into a 'Y' shape like the one on New Zealand. I havnt been able to make it out :huh:

#932 Dirty technique

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:46 AM

looks nice and fresh . now get ready for every knowitall to have their analysis based off one photo splurge all other place...

good shrink wrap job.
p.s. nice work bob

#933 Observer

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:48 AM


In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure



Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

WetHog :ph34r:


Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?

#934 J-BIRD

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:48 AM



In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure



Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

WetHog :ph34r:


Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?



Ram attachments for the swinging boards

#935 nav

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:47 AM


In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image


Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

WetHog :ph34r:

The lifting arm for the board?

Thick boards if the slot shape ^^ counts....

...which seem to go very 'diagonally' through the hulls , as per...

Posted Image

Very sweet looking machine. Nice and clean - thanks to all those Rubles

#936 flojo

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:55 AM

In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image

Nice cat. Definitely desiged for heavy "foil assistance". The hulls are a stretched version of the Tornado X:
Attached File  scheurer_new_tornado.jpg   31.04K   80 downloads

#937 nav

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:21 AM

And apparently does not require the 'counter tension' when without the wing - a la ETNZ

(Beams are sexy - but matt, so clearly shopped!)

#938 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:24 AM

that is NO upsized Tornado flojo

#939 ~Stingray~

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:48 AM

I mentioned the GC ('Grand Central') looking beefy (yes, I realize it is wrapped) but also:

the GC forward of that under the prod may have more rods connected to it than Nzilla's does - anyone got a minute to compare if that's true?

#940 insider

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 11:56 AM

I suspect those are solid carbon rods (in an aero friendly shape) not PBO/etc etc. Added advantage of no compression post.

#941 Val56

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 12:31 PM

I suspect those are solid carbon rods (in an aero friendly shape) not PBO/etc etc. Added advantage of no compression post.


Well, it's obviously solid carbon rod, as for DOgzilla and Nzilla.

#942 buckdouger

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:22 PM

I mentioned the GC ('Grand Central') looking beefy (yes, I realize it is wrapped) but also:

the GC forward of that under the prod may have more rods connected to it than Nzilla's does - anyone got a minute to compare if that's true?


Posted Image

#943 bluelaser

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:27 PM

The lifting arm for the board?

Thick boards if the slot shape ^^ counts....

...which seem to go very 'diagonally' through the hulls , as per...

Posted Image

Very sweet looking machine. Nice and clean - thanks to all those Rubles



Looks to me like the upper centerboard bearing can move around a lot. looks like a very large upper opening for the centerboards.

#944 Mariner

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 03:42 PM

I think I see doors for a catepillar drive :)

#945 nav

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:18 PM

Triangular pole - rather than round I reckon. Like a 'Park Lane' boom. Bowman's dream!

#946 GauchoGreg

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 04:45 PM

Just realized the boat has no "gills"

#947 zillawatcher

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:36 PM

That is one killer looking boat. Makes Nzilla look rather pedestrian: A work truck versus a sports car. But looks dont win races. Now things get interesting!

#948 nav

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 05:47 PM

Unfortunately the 'engine' for this sports car is still at the reconditioners after it blew up.....

Posted Image

- that's pedestrian.

#949 rule69

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 06:06 PM

Just realized the boat has no "gills"


Those aren't gills. They're vertical Hulas (HHulae). Only a NZ team can have them. If any other team had them it would be cheating, but since Kiwis can not cheat it isn't cheating if done by Kiwis.... :)

#950 WetHog

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:01 PM

Sure seems odd that the first pictures we see of this beast is of it being off loaded in SF. No Anarchists up in Sweden?

WetHog :ph34r:

#951 WetHog

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:05 PM




In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure



Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.

WetHog :ph34r:


Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?



Ram attachments for the swinging boards


Is that pretty obvious? I know dick about boat design, just never payed attention to where ETNZ's 72 has theirs attached.

WetHog :ph34r:

#952 nav

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 07:11 PM

Sure seems odd that the first pictures we see of this beast is of it being off loaded in SF. No Anarchists up in Sweden?

WetHog :ph34r:


Swedenpain - that's where she was assembled

#953 Alpina

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 08:12 PM

I guess that anyone who was let into the base in VLC wasn't in a position to take any pictures? It was probably outside on multiple occasions but no one was in the right place at the right time with a long enough lense.

#954 Boybland

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:21 PM

Just realized the boat has no "gills"


Looks to me like the cockpit walls just sort of end near the back, so maybe open backed arrangement.
They must have something effective for draining to meet the rule requirement for no water to be trapped in the hulls for more than a few seconds (can't remember the exact wording, but pretty sure it's in there).

#955 Tony-F18

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Posted 23 August 2012 - 10:51 PM

Will Terry still be #1 after this week?

#956 maxmini

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:01 AM

Will Terry still be #1 after this week?


Accrording to the comments during todays events , things are not as positive for TH as they once were.Time will tell :)

#957 ~HHN92~

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:13 AM

In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image


Red is a bad luck color: Liberty, Mariner, American Eagle..............................

#958 SW Sailor

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:22 AM

Paint jobs are cheap relative to everything else.

#959 hoom

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:52 AM

the GC forward of that under the prod may have more rods connected to it than Nzilla's does

Only two more.
From the forward 'gc' straight out to the bows :wacko:
But then from the end of the prod out to the bows but further back and again from the same point across to the prod :huh:
ETNZ just has a couple of thin diagonal stays at prod height.

I'd say either ETNZ has grossly underspecced, Artemis has grossly overspecced or are doing something very different.

#960 brian weslake

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:39 AM

In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image


Doesn't look like Juan K believes in L shaped boards, given the location of the exit hole for the daggerboards. How long till this boat is back in the shop getting major surgery on it's daggerboard slots?

#961 hoom

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:31 AM

Ahh, I'd forgotten Juan Alphabet was designing for them, that explains a lot.

#962 J-BIRD

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:10 AM

Looks like Juan K is doing something similar to l’Hydroptère with the foils

#963 ITA602

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:50 AM

There's something not shown in these pictures regarding missing grinding pedistals...




In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Anyone got a guess what the square mark that is just above where the daggerboard comes out of the bottom of the starboard hull? Looks like a spot where something attaches to the hull. Odd.
WetHog :ph34r:

Possibly one of the on-board camera mounting points ?

Ram attachments for the swinging boards


Mmmm.... something strange... maybe attachments for a system to deliver torque from the grinding pedestal on a hull to the winches on the other? Or to move ballast water from the two hulls?

Let's see...

#964 Alpina

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:28 AM

Funny that nobody has noticed the lack of winches...

#965 ITA602

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:45 AM

Funny that nobody has noticed the lack of winches...


Ah ah... got it. D35 :D I thought that simple were not installed or visible...

#966 nav

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:41 PM


Funny that nobody has noticed the lack of winches...


Ah ah... got it. D35 :D I thought that simple were not installed or visible...


Ok, I'll ask...

Lack of? I see four - what do you consider the 'standard' number?
What has a D35 got to do with things?
Posted Image
Why be mysterious - don't we come here to share information?

#967 Tony-F18

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:49 PM

Funny that nobody has noticed the lack of winches...

What do you suppose those cylindrical thingies on deck are?
Posted Image

#968 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:52 PM

The rods off the sprit do resemble the D35 structure

Posted Image

#969 ITA602

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 12:56 PM

I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

#970 nav

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:09 PM

I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D


Thanks for explaining your thinking. Could those 'attachment points' not just be for the 'cranes' (what is the correct expression for those poles?) for raising the boards? Given their position - that would be my guess :D

And if they wanted to add additional working space, they have the lovely stable 'V' formed by the two diagonals running from the step back to the aft corners to work with.

#971 ~Stingray~

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:33 PM

And if they wanted to add additional working space, they have the lovely stable 'V' formed by the two diagonals running from the step back to the aft corners to work with.

Right, maybe the platform near the point of the V that on NZilla is a soft one, will be a solid one on AZilla.

#972 nav

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 01:56 PM


And if they wanted to add additional working space, they have the lovely stable 'V' formed by the two diagonals running from the step back to the aft corners to work with.

Right, maybe the platform near the point of the V that on NZilla is a soft one, will be a solid one on AZilla.


I'm dubious, but what they intend to do in lieu of additional winches is an interesting question. ETNZ had the two on the aft corners of that soft platform plus four on each hull?
Posted Image

Posted Image


Did you notice how the Artemis step appears to built up, presumably because the front beam is so flat.

#973 gybe-ho!

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 02:27 PM


In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image


Red is a bad luck color: Liberty, Mariner, American Eagle..............................


Yeah Steinlager, that was a real unlucky boat!

#974 Alpina

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:15 PM

I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...

#975 nav

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:24 PM


I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...


Warmer, yes warmer.....

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

WTF?

#976 J-BIRD

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:42 PM



I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...


Warmer, yes warmer.....

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

WTF?


He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet

#977 nav

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 03:54 PM




I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...


Warmer, yes warmer.....

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

WTF?


He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet


.....and you know this how?

#978 maxmini

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 04:31 PM




I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...




Warmer, yes warmer.....

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

WTF?


He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet


The more work is done in the middle of the boat the less righting moment you have . Why keep your big boys off the rail , especially in Frisco ?

#979 J-BIRD

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:09 PM





I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...


Warmer, yes warmer.....

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

WTF?


He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet


.....and you know this how?


the same way I knew the wing was trashed

#980 insider

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 05:19 PM

Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!

#981 nav

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:48 PM

Except that Alpina didn't post a 'pic' (or deleted it immediately). He just hinted.....pretty painful, but whatever floats your boats I guess.

Interesting enough in it's own right, why the party games?

#982 J-BIRD

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 06:49 PM




I guess four winches are too few for managing the jib sheets, gennaker sheets, halyards, runners, etc... I'm just putting together the following pieces of the puzzle:

- 4 winches are not enough
- two grinding pedestals per hull are not enough (on the old AC5, i remember there were 5 pedestals and ETNZ has 4 for each hull)
- There are "square marks" on the hulls (between the beam and the daggerboard exit) that are ready for installing things..

A D35 has a kind on platform (fake hull) in between the two hulls. I guess Artemis will have a similar platform with few grinding pedestals, the winches for the halyards, and so on!
Just a crazy idea! :D

Getting close...


Warmer, yes warmer.....

I remember this game - from three year old's birthdays!

WTF?


He is just trying to tease us. The central pod with most of the gear is not attached yet


I may have this wrong ......... it is attached but we cannot see it in these pics

#983 nav

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 07:11 PM

Well there's the 'pod-like' bulge under the ...'mis' of 'Artemis' as seen here - which would be on the centreline extending forward from the rear beam.....
Posted Image

Then there's the raised step which could conceivably house something more....
Posted Image

#984 Mariner

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:21 PM

Paul Cayard, America's Cup Challenger, On Growing Up In SF, The Soul Of Sailing And Why We Should Care About The Big Race

http://www.huffingto...f=san-francisco

#985 dumper

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Posted 24 August 2012 - 08:53 PM

Remember the vsail (I think) interview from awhile back, during the Newport acws with Steve
Clark? He said that one of the big teams has a grinding pod right on the back beam. We found our team :)

#986 Dirty technique

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 04:51 AM

i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )
.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.

Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!


etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .

#987 nav

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:35 AM

i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )
.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.


Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!


etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .


Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.

#988 WetHog

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 11:05 AM



In the bigger shot from http://www.catsailingnews.com/ youcan see its a Y structure

Posted Image


Red is a bad luck color: Liberty, Mariner, American Eagle..............................


Yeah Steinlager, that was a real unlucky boat!


When did Steinlager get lucky in the AC?

And following the main topic at this point in here, Artemis has been participating in EBs super friends D35 circuit on lake Geneva. Or have in the recent past.

WetHog.

#989 hoom

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 01:53 PM

95 & 2000.

But the reference is to Steinlager 2 the red & white round the world yacht that took out the race with line wins in all 7 legs, GD 2nd in Fisher & Paykel.
Posted Image

#990 Alpina

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 07:24 PM

The secret is out.

#991 nav

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 08:53 PM

The secret is out.


You Sir, are amazing :unsure:

#992 Dirty technique

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:05 PM


Just realized the boat has no "gills"


Those aren't gills. They're vertical Hulas (HHulae). Only a NZ team can have them. If any other team had them it would be cheating, but since Kiwis can not cheat it isn't cheating if done by Kiwis.... :)


maybe you will find a hula on artemis. considering it was his idea to start with
http://artemis-racing.americascup.com/team/management/tom-schnackenberg

#993 Dirty technique

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Posted 25 August 2012 - 10:12 PM


i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )
.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.


Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!


etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .


Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.


i can quarantee u there is hydraulics. the fact that those leaver arms are not carbon either means those loads must big . hint. see if you can get a close up of nz1's wing base

#994 nav

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:22 PM



i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )
.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.


Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!


etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .


Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.


i can quarantee u there is hydraulics. the fact that those leaver arms are not carbon either means those loads must big . hint. see if you can get a close up of nz1's wing base


Thanks but I'm not playing the hinting game today (and that's ^^ rather unintelligible anyway) - if you know something spit it out. If you've got something significant to show - then put up the photo yourself.

#995 Monster Mash

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 04:46 PM




i just want to see their wing/ foils . the hull configuration is kinda set ( for the first platform anyway )
.but the wings and the twisting components will be the part that the teams will be able to tweek the most. we've seen in many ac and luis v cups that a faster boat will lose because of a bad/out of range configuration.


Guys, he is hinting that most of the controls will be done by hydraulics from a rotary pump on the pedestals. He chose that pic of the D35 as it shows the hydro handle in the shot.

*edit - sorry to spoil your fun!


etnz have this on there SL33's.. its the handle you will see dean pumping as he's helming the sl's. he was pretty open about the hydraulic system when they had there open day. i would say everyone will have a hydraulic pump system .it would also account for etnz extra grinding pedestals. its all just the first round of smoke and mirrors . wait until the second/ third generation of wings come out .


Not sure how you come up with 'extra' as the ratio of winches to pedestals is infinite, but there is a pretty good indication of hydraulic use on NZ#1 IMO - in the apparent lack of lever arm length for the flaps.


i can quarantee u there is hydraulics. the fact that those leaver arms are not carbon either means those loads must big . hint. see if you can get a close up of nz1's wing base


Thanks but I'm not playing the hinting game today (and that's ^^ rather unintelligible anyway) - if you know something spit it out. If you've got something significant to show - then put up the photo yourself.


Nav Play nice.
I've seen the boat up close, was asked not to take pictures and did not.
There is lots of hydro, and the posted pics do not show the whole story.

#996 Alpina

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 07:17 PM

Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?

#997 nav

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 07:30 PM

Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?



It's not at all painful - well not ordinarily. If you have an interest in the AC and want more info than is generally available, then this is one of the places to look. But occasionally it seems a bit full of people who 'know more than they can say', and seem to enjoy gloating about it. I enjoy the exchange of info and knowledge - but not being asked to guess what someone else 'claims to know', though two ot three word hints like a children's party game.

If you where only asked not to take photos does that stop you explaining exactly what you saw and understood about the boat and it's systems? Does it stop you using the existing shots to point out features that others have inadvertently missed?

#998 Monster Mash

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:09 PM


Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?



It's not at all painful - well not ordinarily. If you have an interest in the AC and want more info than is generally available, then this is one of the places to look. But occasionally it seems a bit full of people who 'know more than they can say', and seem to enjoy gloating about it. I enjoy the exchange of info and knowledge - but not being asked to guess what someone else 'claims to know', though two ot three word hints like a children's party game.

If you where only asked not to take photos does that stop you explaining exactly what you saw and understood about the boat and it's systems? Does it stop you using the existing shots to point out features that others have inadvertently missed?


If you respect the wishes and intent of the teams you get invited back. A lot better than being a copy and paste expert.

#999 Rennmaus

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:13 PM

Tha actual question is, why post cryptic hints when you're not allowed to say anything? Keep 100% of your knowledge to yourself, you'll do the team that trusts you a much bigger favor.
If you are allowed to post things post them, no need for cryptic allusions then.

#1000 ~Stingray~

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 08:56 PM



Must be painful to roam these forums Nav? I only hinted what was already said by Steve Clark. If you are given the opportunity to see a boat like this up close and are told not to take photos wouldn't you honor that privilege?



It's not at all painful - well not ordinarily. If you have an interest in the AC and want more info than is generally available, then this is one of the places to look. But occasionally it seems a bit full of people who 'know more than they can say', and seem to enjoy gloating about it. I enjoy the exchange of info and knowledge - but not being asked to guess what someone else 'claims to know', though two ot three word hints like a children's party game.

If you where only asked not to take photos does that stop you explaining exactly what you saw and understood about the boat and it's systems? Does it stop you using the existing shots to point out features that others have inadvertently missed?


If you respect the wishes and intent of the teams you get invited back. A lot better than being a copy and paste expert.

That last part is a low blow. Nav is doing us a genuine favor with the effort he's putting in. That he does it with flair and good humor is just a big bonus on top.

There are all kinds of ways to contribute, few of them bad.




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