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US Sailing President Gary Jobson


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#1 Delta Blues

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 04:53 PM

Gary Jobson has now been the U.S. Sailing President for 2 years. He has 1 year left, and then someone else takes it over. So, it's report card time. I was asked to back off and let him try. List his accomplishments, and then explain how it improved the sport.

#2 tikipete

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:01 PM

The rule book needs a professional edit.

Someone from USS needs to be an upper level multihull sailor AND COMMUNICATE with that group.

#3 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 05:55 PM

Well the Sailing Hall of Fame is in danger of becoming the Hall of Insufficient Funds if that counts :P

#4 scowlover

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 08:38 PM

Gary has made some important inroads toward dismantling the "establishment" attitude at US Sailing. In my dealings, the staff have become friendlier and more apt to find solutions to common problems rather than in the past when you got a lot of "this is how it works, if that doesn't work for you, too bad." I have seen a visible focus on growing the sport and identifying the issues that push people away. In a discussion with him, I was left very content that he was working hard to do the right thing to grow our sport.

While my view of how to market the sport may differ from his, I can honestly say he has left me pleasantly surprised with his agenda and the actions he has taken. I will happily renew my membership again this year to support the changes I see coming down the pipe.

#5 PeterHuston

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:49 PM

Gary Jobson has now been the U.S. Sailing President for 2 years. He has 1 year left, and then someone else takes it over. So, it's report card time. I was asked to back off and let him try. List his accomplishments, and then explain how it improved the sport.


Explain to me what you want, and why you want US Sailing to do any of it.

After how many years of imperial leadership from the likes of Janet Baxter, Rosekrans and Capron, Jobson had a pretty big mess to clean up, and there is a ton more to do.

The thing he did the best was getting people to talk to each other again, instead of a couple of people in an ivory tower talking at you, and never listening.

If you want to do something to make the sport better, just do it.

In my view, this is one of those "the government that governs least governs best" situations.

You might get a far sight further along with this discussion of you crawled out from behind a screen name and used your real name. No one is going to listen to the ravings of a screen name, no matter how loud you bleat.

#6 Steam Flyer

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 09:52 PM

Gary has made some important inroads toward dismantling the "establishment" attitude at US Sailing. In my dealings, the staff have become friendlier and more apt to find solutions to common problems rather than in the past when you got a lot of "this is how it works, if that doesn't work for you, too bad." I have seen a visible focus on growing the sport and identifying the issues that push people away. In a discussion with him, I was left very content that he was working hard to do the right thing to grow our sport.

While my view of how to market the sport may differ from his, I can honestly say he has left me pleasantly surprised with his agenda and the actions he has taken. I will happily renew my membership again this year to support the changes I see coming down the pipe.


Hope so

I have not gotten much in the way of help, or even helpful info, from US Sailing so far. I would say they have at least gotten a little friendlier over the past year. They still don't return phone calls or go much out of their way.

If Jobson is changing the snotty attitude, it's a great first step. And everything has to move one step at a time (hopefully forward).

FB- Doug

#7 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 10:57 PM

The most important interactions I've had with US Sailing have been with the Offshore Office regarding their Performance Package and running various iterations on my boat's VPP. Every interaction has been extremely prompt, friendly, helpful and to the point. Moreover, Mr. Teeters of that office has gone a long long way beyond what's "required" to make certain I was satisfied. After recommending Jim Teeter's services to a couple of friends, they reported back that they had the same service.

The various documents and training classes surrounding becoming a Judge are quite well written and run, these are the buy of the century. The classes surrounding becoming a Race Officer are less well done, but still a tremendous bargain.

While the President of an organization the size of US Sailing clearly doesn't attend to these activities personally, given he gets all the shit from this group when things go badly he deserves the credit when it goes well. In these specific cases, things are going very well. It would be good to hear about specific instances where things went well or badly, as opposed to the broad generalities that are typically posted on this site.

Peter and Delta-Blues, it's pretty clear that a great deal of what's posted here is trash, but some of the criticisms and suggestions for Gary have been quite good over the years. Sadly, it seems he doesn't know who to talk to about many of them, at least those made by posters without the backbone to make those statements themselves.

#8 tikipete

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Posted 27 December 2011 - 11:08 PM

I have written to him personally, under my real name, but received no response.

#9 Winever

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:35 AM

Gary Jobson has now been the U.S. Sailing President for 2 years. He has 1 year left, and then someone else takes it over. So, it's report card time. I was asked to back off and let him try. List his accomplishments, and then explain how it improved the sport.



Well I'd say getting you to STFU for a while is bound to improve the sport. Cheers, Winever.

#10 Damaged Goods

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 12:42 AM

Mr Clean for prez. Everyone knows he soooo much more PC than rough--edged Jobson.

#11 Left Hook

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 04:24 AM

I have written to him personally, under my real name, but received no response.


I suggest then that you try again. He undoubtedly receives a lot of email and, being only human, some things can slip through at times. Unless you were particularly rude in your reply I highly doubt he ignored an email out of malice or lack of interest.

#12 Great_lakes_racer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 06:48 AM

Gary's always been an interesting person. If anyone is going to bridge the gap in our community it's him. He's respected by the elite and can connect with the "average" person. When I was in 8th grade he took my phone call and I interviewed him for 45 minutes for a paper I was writing. He truly has my respect and is a great man. I will admit that he does have flaws, just like the rest of us.

#13 Left Hook

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 07:37 AM

Gary's always been an interesting person. If anyone is going to bridge the gap in our community it's him. He's respected by the elite and can connect with the "average" person. When I was in 8th grade he took my phone call and I interviewed him for 45 minutes for a paper I was writing. He truly has my respect and is a great man. I will admit that he does have flaws, just like the rest of us.


I've always found him extremely encouraging and helpful to the youth in the sport, goes out of his way to help them/us. A true class act.

#14 tikipete

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:51 AM


I have written to him personally, under my real name, but received no response.


I suggest then that you try again. He undoubtedly receives a lot of email and, being only human, some things can slip through at times. Unless you were particularly rude in your reply I highly doubt he ignored an email out of malice or lack of interest.


I didn't think I was rude. Still, the moment has passed...

#15 SailRacer

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 01:05 PM

Well, he is a Domer.. therefore, must be ok.
Sail Safe!

#16 Phoenix

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 02:29 PM

Perhaps his greatest contribution is the lack of shit fights that marked other administrations. He put Hall Rios to bed. He has made the relationship between the hallowed certified volunteers and the racing public quite a bit more civil. He hasn't done away weith anything, but he has changed the culture from an autocracy to a valuable resource. Those things alone should get him a B+ for achievement and an A+ for leadership. It isn't easy to change an entire culture.

#17 tikipete

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:00 PM

No, it is almost impossible. So if he accomplished anything it is surprising and I'd guess has more to do with the decay of said culture.

#18 Rail Meat

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 03:38 PM

Perhaps his greatest contribution is the lack of shit fights that marked other administrations. He put Hall Rios to bed. He has made the relationship between the hallowed certified volunteers and the racing public quite a bit more civil. He hasn't done away weith anything, but he has changed the culture from an autocracy to a valuable resource. Those things alone should get him a B+ for achievement and an A+ for leadership. It isn't easy to change an entire culture.


This.

Also:

  • While I have limited interactions with US Sailing I will say I think the team is more responsive and focused on service than they have been in the past.
  • The Website is considerably improved. I can actually find information on it now.
  • Looking in from the outside, the development efforts and support for Olympic hopefuls seems more focused, professional and mature than it did prior to his arrival.
  • Clean has not found anything to rant about in the past year or so, which is a pretty good indicator


#19 jeff carver

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 04:11 PM

I've heard the club summits and one design forums have been well received.

USsailing has always responded to email and returned calls to me, even before Gary

from lake-racer above "He's respected by the elite and can connects with the "average" person."....apologies for the mod

i'll renew membership

#20 Delta Blues

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:57 PM


Gary Jobson has now been the U.S. Sailing President for 2 years. He has 1 year left, and then someone else takes it over. So, it's report card time. I was asked to back off and let him try. List his accomplishments, and then explain how it improved the sport.


Explain to me what you want, and why you want US Sailing to do any of it.

After how many years of imperial leadership from the likes of Janet Baxter, Rosekrans and Capron, Jobson had a pretty big mess to clean up, and there is a ton more to do.

The thing he did the best was getting people to talk to each other again, instead of a couple of people in an ivory tower talking at you, and never listening.

If you want to do something to make the sport better, just do it.

In my view, this is one of those "the government that governs least governs best" situations.

You might get a far sight further along with this discussion of you crawled out from behind a screen name and used your real name. No one is going to listen to the ravings of a screen name, no matter how loud you bleat.



Bite me. All of the reports are that Jobson doesn't come to this site, so until he starts posting, there's no need for me to come out of the closet. He's gotta show me his first!

I was hoping for more 10,000 foot views rather than personal interactions, so I hope others will start posting how they think Jobson is doing so far.

#21 PeterHuston

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:11 PM



Gary Jobson has now been the U.S. Sailing President for 2 years. He has 1 year left, and then someone else takes it over. So, it's report card time. I was asked to back off and let him try. List his accomplishments, and then explain how it improved the sport.


Explain to me what you want, and why you want US Sailing to do any of it.

After how many years of imperial leadership from the likes of Janet Baxter, Rosekrans and Capron, Jobson had a pretty big mess to clean up, and there is a ton more to do.

The thing he did the best was getting people to talk to each other again, instead of a couple of people in an ivory tower talking at you, and never listening.

If you want to do something to make the sport better, just do it.

In my view, this is one of those "the government that governs least governs best" situations.

You might get a far sight further along with this discussion of you crawled out from behind a screen name and used your real name. No one is going to listen to the ravings of a screen name, no matter how loud you bleat.



Bite me. All of the reports are that Jobson doesn't come to this site, so until he starts posting, there's no need for me to come out of the closet. He's gotta show me his first!

I was hoping for more 10,000 foot views rather than personal interactions, so I hope others will start posting how they think Jobson is doing so far.


Jobson does come to SA from time to time. I'll send him a link to a thread that is of relevance to some matter.

BTW - he has a serious dislike for the screen name Delta Blues, so I haven't bothered to send him this link. Maybe someone else will.

To most people, US Sailing is irrelevant, until something gets mandated or regulated or otherwise shoved down our throat. He's tried to stop as much of that as possible, but US Sailing is about as nimble as a 12 sided barge with about 25 helm stations.

What I've seen him do is try to stem the culture of just selling services, especially through mandate, and return US Sailing to an organization that enables more racing, if not just sailing in general. It is by no means an easy job, sucks up huge amounts of his time. As it is, we talk probably twice a month for an hour a call, about a wide variety of issues. If he's doing that with me, multiply that by the number of other people he gets input from, plus all the endless Board and staff meetings.

There's a ton of stuff he's done that never gets discussed - case in point, the issue of minimum crew weight limits for college sailing. Coaches want to protect their current structure, but yet that isn't serving the greater good fo the sport - because of the boats that are used in college sailing, for the most part we end up with midget skipper and crew. Then there is the eating disorder issue which is very prevalent in college sports - LA Times did a big story on that last summer. That same week, a female crew on a nationally ranked team told me in private about one of the members of her team who clearly had an eating disorder, just so she could make weight to sail. Jobson's trying to get everyone to deal with that issue, but the college coaching mafia really doesn't want to talk about it.

I could go on, but all you are going to do is find fault, and do so behind a screen name.

#22 Rail Meat

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 11:53 PM




Gary Jobson has now been the U.S. Sailing President for 2 years. He has 1 year left, and then someone else takes it over. So, it's report card time. I was asked to back off and let him try. List his accomplishments, and then explain how it improved the sport.


Explain to me what you want, and why you want US Sailing to do any of it.

After how many years of imperial leadership from the likes of Janet Baxter, Rosekrans and Capron, Jobson had a pretty big mess to clean up, and there is a ton more to do.

The thing he did the best was getting people to talk to each other again, instead of a couple of people in an ivory tower talking at you, and never listening.

If you want to do something to make the sport better, just do it.

In my view, this is one of those "the government that governs least governs best" situations.

You might get a far sight further along with this discussion of you crawled out from behind a screen name and used your real name. No one is going to listen to the ravings of a screen name, no matter how loud you bleat.



Bite me. All of the reports are that Jobson doesn't come to this site, so until he starts posting, there's no need for me to come out of the closet. He's gotta show me his first!

I was hoping for more 10,000 foot views rather than personal interactions, so I hope others will start posting how they think Jobson is doing so far.


Jobson does come to SA from time to time. I'll send him a link to a thread that is of relevance to some matter.

BTW - he has a serious dislike for the screen name Delta Blues, so I haven't bothered to send him this link. Maybe someone else will.

To most people, US Sailing is irrelevant, until something gets mandated or regulated or otherwise shoved down our throat. He's tried to stop as much of that as possible, but US Sailing is about as nimble as a 12 sided barge with about 25 helm stations.

What I've seen him do is try to stem the culture of just selling services, especially through mandate, and return US Sailing to an organization that enables more racing, if not just sailing in general. It is by no means an easy job, sucks up huge amounts of his time. As it is, we talk probably twice a month for an hour a call, about a wide variety of issues. If he's doing that with me, multiply that by the number of other people he gets input from, plus all the endless Board and staff meetings.

There's a ton of stuff he's done that never gets discussed - case in point, the issue of minimum crew weight limits for college sailing. Coaches want to protect their current structure, but yet that isn't serving the greater good fo the sport - because of the boats that are used in college sailing, for the most part we end up with midget skipper and crew. Then there is the eating disorder issue which is very prevalent in college sports - LA Times did a big story on that last summer. That same week, a female crew on a nationally ranked team told me in private about one of the members of her team who clearly had an eating disorder, just so she could make weight to sail. Jobson's trying to get everyone to deal with that issue, but the college coaching mafia really doesn't want to talk about it.

I could go on, but all you are going to do is find fault, and do so behind a screen name.


I would agree with that. The prior administration was just so damn clumsy about it (e.g. mandatory membership) and thus far Jobson has not made any misteps of that sort.

I still think US Sailing should stop trying to keep ORR afloat. Who the heck needs two VPP rules..... (rhetorical question).

#23 Essex

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:31 AM





Gary Jobson has now been the U.S. Sailing President for 2 years. He has 1 year left, and then someone else takes it over. So, it's report card time. I was asked to back off and let him try. List his accomplishments, and then explain how it improved the sport.


Explain to me what you want, and why you want US Sailing to do any of it.

After how many years of imperial leadership from the likes of Janet Baxter, Rosekrans and Capron, Jobson had a pretty big mess to clean up, and there is a ton more to do.

The thing he did the best was getting people to talk to each other again, instead of a couple of people in an ivory tower talking at you, and never listening.

If you want to do something to make the sport better, just do it.

In my view, this is one of those "the government that governs least governs best" situations.

You might get a far sight further along with this discussion of you crawled out from behind a screen name and used your real name. No one is going to listen to the ravings of a screen name, no matter how loud you bleat.



Bite me. All of the reports are that Jobson doesn't come to this site, so until he starts posting, there's no need for me to come out of the closet. He's gotta show me his first!

I was hoping for more 10,000 foot views rather than personal interactions, so I hope others will start posting how they think Jobson is doing so far.


Jobson does come to SA from time to time. I'll send him a link to a thread that is of relevance to some matter.

BTW - he has a serious dislike for the screen name Delta Blues, so I haven't bothered to send him this link. Maybe someone else will.

To most people, US Sailing is irrelevant, until something gets mandated or regulated or otherwise shoved down our throat. He's tried to stop as much of that as possible, but US Sailing is about as nimble as a 12 sided barge with about 25 helm stations.

What I've seen him do is try to stem the culture of just selling services, especially through mandate, and return US Sailing to an organization that enables more racing, if not just sailing in general. It is by no means an easy job, sucks up huge amounts of his time. As it is, we talk probably twice a month for an hour a call, about a wide variety of issues. If he's doing that with me, multiply that by the number of other people he gets input from, plus all the endless Board and staff meetings.

There's a ton of stuff he's done that never gets discussed - case in point, the issue of minimum crew weight limits for college sailing. Coaches want to protect their current structure, but yet that isn't serving the greater good fo the sport - because of the boats that are used in college sailing, for the most part we end up with midget skipper and crew. Then there is the eating disorder issue which is very prevalent in college sports - LA Times did a big story on that last summer. That same week, a female crew on a nationally ranked team told me in private about one of the members of her team who clearly had an eating disorder, just so she could make weight to sail. Jobson's trying to get everyone to deal with that issue, but the college coaching mafia really doesn't want to talk about it.

I could go on, but all you are going to do is find fault, and do so behind a screen name.


I would agree with that. The prior administration was just so damn clumsy about it (e.g. mandatory membership) and thus far Jobson has not made any misteps of that sort.

I still think US Sailing should stop trying to keep ORR afloat. Who the heck needs two VPP rules..... (rhetorical question).


Really ? I was recently advised that my local PHRF were strongly considering moving all certificate administration to US Sailing - this apparently would give us a nice efficient online experience for issuing, renewing or updating phrf certs at a very reasonable cost to the local org. Only catch was we would all need to be members of US Sailing to get a cert and they would no longer offer any locally administered alternative.
So tell me that is not a backdoor mandatory membership scheme...

#24 PeterHuston

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:50 AM

Really ? I was recently advised that my local PHRF were strongly considering moving all certificate administration to US Sailing - this apparently would give us a nice efficient online experience for issuing, renewing or updating phrf certs at a very reasonable cost to the local org. Only catch was we would all need to be members of US Sailing to get a cert and they would no longer offer any locally administered alternative.
So tell me that is not a backdoor mandatory membership scheme...


I'd say that is more your local PHRF organization not wanting to deal with the headaches of ratings. The price for offloading that service is going to be whatever the wholesaler (in this case US Sailing) wants to charge for providing that service.

The way to solve the problem of your presumed stealth mandatory membership is to stick your hand up and offer to run your local PHRF admin functions.

Bigger problem here is how boats will be rated by US Sailing, and how the appeal process would work.

#25 Essex

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 04:05 AM

Yes I certainly did offer my help to help out my local phrf when I submitted my objections to the plan, oddly enough I was told they have enough help at this time, but that as you say is a local matter.
USS are not offering a wholesale service for a price - unless you consider 'price' to include mandatory USS membership.
Why could they not just offer the service without the members only catch ? Had they done so I would have said what a great help they are to local PHRF orgs & signed up for membership.

And BTW, as I understand it, USS were not trying to get into the rating business, just the administration of local PHRF applications for certs. Although I will say did wonder what this might lead to down the road.

#26 Christian

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:47 AM

Yes I certainly did offer my help to help out my local phrf when I submitted my objections to the plan, oddly enough I was told they have enough help at this time, but that as you say is a local matter.
USS are not offering a wholesale service for a price - unless you consider 'price' to include mandatory USS membership.
Why could they not just offer the service without the members only catch ? Had they done so I would have said what a great help they are to local PHRF orgs & signed up for membership.

And BTW, as I understand it, USS were not trying to get into the rating business, just the administration of local PHRF applications for certs. Although I will say did wonder what this might lead to down the road.


Well - if a lot (or even better all) of local PHRF committees were to do the same we would end up with a national PHRF instead of the local mangle that is PHRF currently - in my view it would be a vast improvement

#27 Horse

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 06:20 AM

I look at as 'what has he done wrong in two years'?
So far I see US Sailing as strong if not stronger than when he took over. No public fights.
All in all with what he inherited I would say he has done a good job and sorry he has only a three year term. A bit longer and you may find US Sailing a lot stronger more open organisation.

#28 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:01 AM

...snip...


Bite me. All of the reports are that Jobson doesn't come to this site, so until he starts posting, there's no need for me to come out of the closet. He's gotta show me his first!

I was hoping for more 10,000 foot views rather than personal interactions, so I hope others will start posting how they think Jobson is doing so far.


Delta,

I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they? It is nearly impossible to have a reasonable discussion and there are plenty of places where that person's time would be far better spent. The feeling of self-importance of those who blather on here is really impressive, silly but still impressive. This is a small backwater in a tiny sport.

Why in the world would you want "10,000 foot" generalizations when specific piece of data are offered? Why vague generalities when facts are provided? Reading back through this thread, which is taken from an extremely US Sailing hostile group of people, the tone is actually relatively positive. I think this thread has probably given you your answer, it just might not be the answer you were looking for.

From my read of this thread, Jobson gets about a B and his predecessor received a D. As a way of satisfying your need for a 10,000 foot over generalization, perhaps posters could actually assign a letter grade. Mine would be a B for Mr. Jobson. What's yours?

BV

#29 jocal505

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 09:33 AM


...snip...


Bite me. All of the reports are that Jobson doesn't come to this site, so until he starts posting, there's no need for me to come out of the closet. He's gotta show me his first!

I was hoping for more 10,000 foot views rather than personal interactions, so I hope others will start posting how they think Jobson is doing so far.


Delta,

I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they? It is nearly impossible to have a reasonable discussion and there are plenty of places where that person's time would be far better spent. The feeling of self-importance of those who blather on here is really impressive, silly but still impressive. This is a small backwater in a tiny sport.

Why in the world would you want "10,000 foot" generalizations when specific piece of data are offered? Why vague generalities when facts are provided? Reading back through this thread, which is taken from an extremely US Sailing hostile group of people, the tone is actually relatively positive. I think this thread has probably given you your answer, it just might not be the answer you were looking for.

From my read of this thread, Jobson gets about a B and his predecessor received a D. As a way of satisfying your need for a 10,000 foot over generalization, perhaps posters could actually assign a letter grade. Mine would be a B for Mr. Jobson. What's yours?

BV


Beau, got no doggie in this fight, but many intelligent discussions are held on SA these days. The inane, mindless shitfights are getting rare.
If you and Jobson are rejecting all and anything under the screen name of XYZ, I dunno. Listen first and debate and reject after that.

SA is the backwater of a tiny sport? Gotta disagree there too, Beau, seems you can find the pulse and cutting edge of today's sailing here. In spades, like nowhere else. When the Grand Poohbah of Us Sailing is above heeding any individual, or the outlook of SA, the word for that is ignorance.

#30 Albatros

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:11 AM

The feeling of self-importance of those who blather on here is really impressive, silly but still impressive.


+1 :P

living on the fringes of cifilisation, the eternal wailing over US ailing onhere is a source for eternal bemusement and amusement, certainly given the fact that in this little dark corner of the globe I can't find anything remotely similar to your US sailing club and I can't even figure out if there is a need at all (which is of course confirmed by the non-existence)
sorry for that, felt less important this morning and had to do something about it, back to your regular program B)

#31 Phoenix

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 10:45 AM

Gary does read some of the threads some of the time. There are indeed threads that devolve into meaningless babble.

A national PHRF presence would at least reduce the perception of local bias. PHRF is not bad in and of itself. It is just poorly applied in grouping boats for racing and even more poorly policed. Until there is some inspection of boats at the very least, the issue of cheating will not go away.

The difference between Gary and most of his predecessors has to do with perspective. Gary has always been a competitor. Too many of his predecessors have been from the ranks of the "volunteers". In the minds of many of those "volunteers" the competitors only exist for the purpose of providing an opportunity for them to show how skilled and powerful they are. Think about it.

#32 barleymalt

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:39 PM

Reluctant to wade in here. I have never met Jobson, or had any contact with him. My chief complaint with USS over the years has been the ivory tower mentality, and the lack of listening to, and at times disdain for the sailing public they claim to represent. Not the Olympians, or Pros, or (self perceived) movers and shakers. The little guys, mostly club racing their 4KSBs in smaller clubs. The people that make up 99% of the customers that USS purports to serve. Yeah, changing the culture at any organization is tough, I sincerely hope that Jobson is able to. Offer value, and what the customer wants, and the dues and volunteers will take care of themselves. Be inclusive, not dictatorial.

FWIW, I respected Dean Brenner's attempts to come here and have a dialog, even though he took grief for doing it. I would hope that others, including Jobson are able to, because voices and opinions need to be heard. This place can have civil discourse, and intelligent discussion.

#33 Tucky

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 02:45 PM

This place can have civil discourse, and intelligent discussion.


Usually doesn't, but can.




#34 us7070

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 05:28 PM

Reluctant to wade in here. I have never met Jobson, or had any contact with him. My chief complaint with USS over the years has been the ivory tower mentality, and the lack of listening to, and at times disdain for the sailing public they claim to represent. Not the Olympians, or Pros, or (self perceived) movers and shakers. The little guys, mostly club racing their 4KSBs in smaller clubs. The people that make up 99% of the customers that USS purports to serve. Yeah, changing the culture at any organization is tough, I sincerely hope that Jobson is able to. Offer value, and what the customer wants, and the dues and volunteers will take care of themselves. Be inclusive, not dictatorial.

FWIW, I respected Dean Brenner's attempts to come here and have a dialog, even though he took grief for doing it. I would hope that others, including Jobson are able to, because voices and opinions need to be heard. This place can have civil discourse, and intelligent discussion.



in what way do they not listen to you...?

do they hang up when you call?

did you make a suggestion, or ask for some change, that they rejected?

if so, share the details.

i read this sort of thing all the time, but have no idea what the actual complaint is.

#35 Delta Blues

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 05:51 PM

Undoubtedly Gary gets props for having smoothed out many disruptive issues and customer service issues. Good on him.

However, these feel good things last as long as he is in office. It is a management style that does shift based on who the leader is. Can he find someone to become the next president that doesn't fall back into the poor mindset of the past? Look who the nominating chair is, Jimmy Capron. Jimmy boy needs to wake up and allow the organization to continue to move forward and not fall backwards into his way of thinking. It's not easy to do, he'll have to man-up to do it, but it needs to be done.

Gary needed to rid the organization of Hubbell. Hubbell is a well meaning doctor but terribly misguided into thinking U.S. Sailing should be run like a doctor's office. Doctors are godlike and know all. U.S. Sailing should be no different in his eyes. He pushed the for-profit corporate structure (pyramid) onto U.S. Sailing. But for those of us who understand REPRESENTATION, who understand why the House of Representatives has 435 members and that when U.S. Sailing did have 53 members on their board of directors it was actually a good healthy way to manage. However, when they went to the 12 member board, what they really accomplished is firing their volunteers. Many volunteers quit attending the twice a year meetings as they did not have authority and no longer held a voice. Attendance became so pathetic that Jobson ordered no conference calls for this latest fall meeting to force volunteers to come in person. That idea backfired and conference calls were allowed. Yup, Gary and all of U.S. Sailing has a problem that they've lost their volunteer corp. Getting rid of God-like Hubbell, and moving back to a "representative" organization will cause the organization to begin to get back on tracks.

The organization has improved on Public Relations, but is still crippled in the organizational structure with no plan in place to revamp the organization back to a representative model.

As a result I give Mr. Jobson an F.

#36 Mambo Kings

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 06:58 PM

A year ago, I had very limited direct involvement with US Sailing.

In October I received a call from USS asking if I would consider accepting a nomination for the role of Chair of the US Sailing One Design Council. I demurred explaining that altho I care deeply about one design sailing in this country, I had a lot on my plate. However I agreed to talk to Gary Jobson. Gary called me at home in the evening and we talked for an hour about the direction of sailing, the role of US sailing and his views about the importance of one design racing. We bounced around some ideas about reinvigorating the ODCC and connecting it more directly with rank and file one design sailors. After the call, I was sufficiently impressed that I jotted down a page and half of notes and mulled on them for a week. I followed up with a call to Jack Giehart and many of the existing ODCC members. I decided to accept.

At the agm in Annapolis in November I was elected as chair of the ODCC. Since then we are in the process of putting together a very strong team to at the one design council. This is going to be a team effort.We are drafting concrete objectives for 2012 and we are getting one design classes involved in the direction of USS.

So strike that one up to Gary Jobson for helping recruit some volunteers. Time will tell whether this group of volunteers does a good job.

#37 Mambo Kings

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 06:59 PM

Some some things that have personally impressed me about Gary Jobson as a leader of an organization:-

1. No sacred cows. He has boldly stated that "Everything that we do at US Sailing is on the table". He challenges US Sailing to be relevant or not to do it all.

2. He is time efficient. He runs tight efficient meetings and is respectful of volunteer's time.

3. He is a volunteer and he is personaly generous to the organization. FWIW, I observe that Gary Jobson contribution and travel schedule on behalf of USS is as effective as the paid chair of many corporate boards that I have seen.

4. He prioritizes issues effectively. Volunteer organizations are very good at going round in endless circles. My brief exposure to Jobson is that he cuts through agendas by asking "What is really important to sailing in North America here?" "What are we really trying to achieve?".

5. He has retained some of the irrevence and humor that allows him to challenge bureacracy. Remember, he came from the afterguard of Ted Turner's Courageous who were anarchists in their own right. I believe he remains a good friend of Turner, who could never be accused of being a conformist. At the same time Jobson balances this with a genuine respect for the institutions, yacht clubs and people that make up the fabric of the sailing community. The same guy can challenge our ISAF delegation with some edgy questions but in the evening give a genuine and emotional speech accompanying an award to a veteran of the sailing community. He can be critical of policy without being critical of people. Its a valuable skill.

6. He knows how to use the soap box. He's a good speaker and its important.

7. He is good at motivating people. He takes an interest in their agendas but is quick to delegate. He likes to resolve difficult issues promptly. "If something doesn't taste good, lets not chew on it"

8. He has got some relevant projects underway USS that are directly associated with sailors and nothing to do with Olympics. The results of the 3 enquiries are the credit (or debit) of the authors. The impetus to launch them came largely from the board led by jobson. Even the most critical anarchist will score that two out of three. Which brings me to another topic. Its much better to do stuff and get some things wrong than do nothing and get nothing wrong.


I sense that Jobson is frustrated with ISAF. He was speaking at dinner shortly after returning from Puerto Rico. " I thought I would share with you some of the progess that was made at ISAF over two days of meetings" he said......then he paused for 2 silent minutes, looked at his notes, and said "and that's all I have to report on progress at ISAF".
But Jobson believes in constructive criticism, so he probably doesnt want that story out there. He will critique in a manner to try and see some positive changes rather than criticism for its own sake.

In short.....its a part time volunteer job. We got a good 'un. Who can we find to come next??

#38 Delta Blues

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 08:00 PM

While not aa requirement, commonly the next prez came out of the existing board:
Ed Adams, Susan Epstein, Tom Hubbell, Dean Brenner, George Hinman, Fred Hagedorn, Bruce Burton, Stan Honey, Leslie Keller, Walter Chamberlain, Dawn Riley, John Craig, Maureen McKinnon-Tucker, Jim Walsh.

So who can tackle the job a year from now?

#39 HobieAnarchy

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Posted 30 December 2011 - 11:25 PM

While not aa requirement, commonly the next prez came out of the existing board:
Ed Adams, Susan Epstein, Tom Hubbell, Dean Brenner, George Hinman, Fred Hagedorn, Bruce Burton, Stan Honey, Leslie Keller, Walter Chamberlain, Dawn Riley, John Craig, Maureen McKinnon-Tucker, Jim Walsh.

So who can tackle the job a year from now?

OK, I'll bite:
You've disparaged Susan Epstein before as a "the math teacher", so I assume she's off the list. (I might be getting you and Do Rag confused on this one.)
We know how you feel about Hubbell.
Dean Brenner is busy with the Olympics
Stan Honey and John Craig are busy with the America's Cup
Hinman and Burton are newbies on the board. Unlikely they would be interested or effective as President being newly indoctrinated into the organization
Hagedorn and Keller are appointed (Secretary and Treasurer) and probably aren't interested in being President.

So that narrows it down to Adams, Chamberlain, Riley, McKinnon-Tucker and Walsh.

Of those, who do you think would be the best person to follow Gary?

Or, casting a wider net, who else?

#40 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 01:03 AM

So, in this thread, the question was asked to evaluate the two year point for Prez Gary. Various responses have suggested that the rule book needs some edits, the staff at USSA is a tad more friendly and not hanging up so often on callers, and that the eating disorder by a sailing team member was somehow addressed. All good things. Irrelevant, but good things - warm and fuzzy.

Perhaps a better way to address the question would be to evaluate the enterprise based upon progress with their stated objectives. These are presented in the USSA ByLaws for thoise that care enough to look.

The primary objective for USSA is to "encourage and promote the racing of sailing boats"....and to "encourage participation and to promote excellence in sailing".... Maybe someone can help me with this one, as I know of no new, effective program to promote sailing that was initiated by USSA. With the declining trend of our sport it might be time for USSA to review their own objectives and try to do something positive. Even our cantankerous ED has done more to encourage racing, as was evidenced by the recent discussions on SA regarding the venerable Ensenada Race. And, thanks to a few, some of the issues were addressed and changes made. Where was USSA - after all USSA does have a primary objective to promote the sport.....?????

Next, USSA has a variety of objectives for the Olympic sailing team. All of these objectives are poorly written and convoluted in their structure. That aside, USSA has as objectives to "foster and promote public interest...in Olympics", "to provde training for candidates and crews", to "promote and make available to contestants....new developments in design" and "to promote educational and scientific purposes" (now, just what is that one about???). It goes without saying that the USSA Olympic program (this is not aimed at the sailors)has not been successful. The reults at the last US Olympic class regatta, not to mention, Olympics, attest to that.

Now, let's compare the poorly written, convoluted goals for the USSA Olympic program with teh goals for a reasonbly comparable sport - the US Ski team. The US Olympic Ski Team organization has a clear stated goal - to win Olympic medals! Duhhhhhhh! This goal is easily measured - how many medals did they win? How do you measure success with the USSA goals? They way USSA wants it is like BHO did when he commited to "saving jobs." How do you measure that?

To take this a step further, look at the job the Ski team does in marketing it's product. Look at the public awareness of say, Bode or Lindsay vs.......ah, I can't think of anyone in sailing.

By virtually any yardstcik, the US Ski Team organization has been successful and the US Sailing team organization an abject failure. Yet USSA apparently does nothing to change or improve the programs.....why is that?

Lastly, we have the two recurring issues of the USSA "election" process and the stealth mandatory membership programs. I have seen no change whatsoever on these points. The USSA "elections" continue in a controlled, closed process designed to ensure the incumbants retain their positions and that the present processes are continued. Incumbants are not asked to justify what they did during their tenure and there is no meaningful debate or statements from those running. The election process is managed by an evil wizard hiding behing a curtain and pulling levers.

With regard to the stealth mandatory membership program, folks are virtually forced to join USSA, whether or not they support the organization. These programs were initiated in order to raise revenue as the membership was in a decline and few saw any value in USSA. When confronted with this issue, USSA merely responded with a statement to the effect that the membership simply didn't understand all the good that USSA does. I find that attitude to be arrogant and insulting. I much prefer the expression from Marie Antoinette, when the French masses were starving and demanded more food, she famously stated "let them eat cake."

#41 learningj24

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 12:42 PM

A year ago, I had very limited direct involvement with US Sailing.

In October I received a call from USS asking if I would consider accepting a nomination for the role of Chair of the US Sailing One Design Council. I demurred explaining that altho I care deeply about one design sailing in this country, I had a lot on my plate. However I agreed to talk to Gary Jobson. Gary called me at home in the evening and we talked for an hour about the direction of sailing, the role of US sailing and his views about the importance of one design racing. We bounced around some ideas about reinvigorating the ODCC and connecting it more directly with rank and file one design sailors. After the call, I was sufficiently impressed that I jotted down a page and half of notes and mulled on them for a week. I followed up with a call to Jack Giehart and many of the existing ODCC members. I decided to accept.

At the agm in Annapolis in November I was elected as chair of the ODCC. Since then we are in the process of putting together a very strong team to at the one design council. This is going to be a team effort.We are drafting concrete objectives for 2012 and we are getting one design classes involved in the direction of USS.

So strike that one up to Gary Jobson for helping recruit some volunteers. Time will tell whether this group of volunteers does a good job.


I've not been involved in US Sailing in quite sometime for a very simple reason; they could not give a reasonable answer to the question "Why is it in my interest to join?". The impression I had/have is that the organization is relatively inbred and caters to the interests of a small part of the sport, ie: Grand Prix designers, Olympic sailors and non-sailing functionaries (RC, Judges etc). Very little of these points of focus do much for sailing in my part of the country or at my level so if US Sailing is changing it's focus to the majority of sailors (PHRF and One-Design) it can only be a good thing. Particularly if they are dedicated to stopping the greying and shrinking of the sport.

Things that would help:
Addressing the PHRF problem: If there was an analytical tool that allowed handicappers a standardized method of using local race data so that handicappers have some cover from the accusation of "Political Handicap Racing Format".
More Support for One-Design Fleet development: Become the clearinghouse for those of us who are trying to promote a fleet. Bulk trophy prices, speaker lists, ideas etc. I get more ideas from these forums than the US Sail "tease but don't inform without a credit card" website.
Education: standardized curriculum for crew development, recruiting and education. I've been targeting the '20something post college people to get them into the sport and generated a curriculum to give them an idea of how to handle themselves on a boat but it took a few hours. If them materials and curriculum was available for others, it would save a lot of time.

It sounds as if US Sailing has discovered that it has to pick a direction and work toward it, hopefully that will happen.

#42 tikipete

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 01:23 PM

So, in this thread, the question was asked to evaluate the two year point for Prez Gary. Various responses have suggested that the rule book needs some edits, the staff at USSA is a tad more friendly and not hanging up so often on callers, and that the eating disorder by a sailing team member was somehow addressed. All good things. Irrelevant, but good things - warm and fuzzy.

Perhaps a better way to address the question would be to evaluate the enterprise based upon progress with their stated objectives. These are presented in the USSA ByLaws for thoise that care enough to look.

The primary objective for USSA is to "encourage and promote the racing of sailing boats"....and to "encourage participation and to promote excellence in sailing".... Maybe someone can help me with this one, as I know of no new, effective program to promote sailing that was initiated by USSA. With the declining trend of our sport it might be time for USSA to review their own objectives and try to do something positive. Even our cantankerous ED has done more to encourage racing, as was evidenced by the recent discussions on SA regarding the venerable Ensenada Race. And, thanks to a few, some of the issues were addressed and changes made. Where was USSA - after all USSA does have a primary objective to promote the sport.....?????

Next, USSA has a variety of objectives for the Olympic sailing team. All of these objectives are poorly written and convoluted in their structure. That aside, USSA has as objectives to "foster and promote public interest...in Olympics", "to provde training for candidates and crews", to "promote and make available to contestants....new developments in design" and "to promote educational and scientific purposes" (now, just what is that one about???). It goes without saying that the USSA Olympic program (this is not aimed at the sailors)has not been successful. The reults at the last US Olympic class regatta, not to mention, Olympics, attest to that.

Now, let's compare the poorly written, convoluted goals for the USSA Olympic program with teh goals for a reasonbly comparable sport - the US Ski team. The US Olympic Ski Team organization has a clear stated goal - to win Olympic medals! Duhhhhhhh! This goal is easily measured - how many medals did they win? How do you measure success with the USSA goals? They way USSA wants it is like BHO did when he commited to "saving jobs." How do you measure that?

To take this a step further, look at the job the Ski team does in marketing it's product. Look at the public awareness of say, Bode or Lindsay vs.......ah, I can't think of anyone in sailing.

By virtually any yardstcik, the US Ski Team organization has been successful and the US Sailing team organization an abject failure. Yet USSA apparently does nothing to change or improve the programs.....why is that?

Lastly, we have the two recurring issues of the USSA "election" process and the stealth mandatory membership programs. I have seen no change whatsoever on these points. The USSA "elections" continue in a controlled, closed process designed to ensure the incumbants retain their positions and that the present processes are continued. Incumbants are not asked to justify what they did during their tenure and there is no meaningful debate or statements from those running. The election process is managed by an evil wizard hiding behing a curtain and pulling levers.

With regard to the stealth mandatory membership program, folks are virtually forced to join USSA, whether or not they support the organization. These programs were initiated in order to raise revenue as the membership was in a decline and few saw any value in USSA. When confronted with this issue, USSA merely responded with a statement to the effect that the membership simply didn't understand all the good that USSA does. I find that attitude to be arrogant and insulting. I much prefer the expression from Marie Antoinette, when the French masses were starving and demanded more food, she famously stated "let them eat cake."


Imo, the readability of The rule book for USS relates directly to the leadership. That's why I mentioned it.

#43 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 03:41 PM


So, in this thread, the question was asked to evaluate the two year point for Prez Gary. Various responses have suggested that the rule book needs some edits, the staff at USSA is a tad more friendly and not hanging up so often on callers, and that the eating disorder by a sailing team member was somehow addressed. All good things. Irrelevant, but good things - warm and fuzzy.

Perhaps a better way to address the question would be to evaluate the enterprise based upon progress with their stated objectives. These are presented in the USSA ByLaws for thoise that care enough to look.

The primary objective for USSA is to "encourage and promote the racing of sailing boats"....and to "encourage participation and to promote excellence in sailing".... Maybe someone can help me with this one, as I know of no new, effective program to promote sailing that was initiated by USSA. With the declining trend of our sport it might be time for USSA to review their own objectives and try to do something positive. Even our cantankerous ED has done more to encourage racing, as was evidenced by the recent discussions on SA regarding the venerable Ensenada Race. And, thanks to a few, some of the issues were addressed and changes made. Where was USSA - after all USSA does have a primary objective to promote the sport.....?????

Next, USSA has a variety of objectives for the Olympic sailing team. All of these objectives are poorly written and convoluted in their structure. That aside, USSA has as objectives to "foster and promote public interest...in Olympics", "to provde training for candidates and crews", to "promote and make available to contestants....new developments in design" and "to promote educational and scientific purposes" (now, just what is that one about???). It goes without saying that the USSA Olympic program (this is not aimed at the sailors)has not been successful. The reults at the last US Olympic class regatta, not to mention, Olympics, attest to that.

Now, let's compare the poorly written, convoluted goals for the USSA Olympic program with teh goals for a reasonbly comparable sport - the US Ski team. The US Olympic Ski Team organization has a clear stated goal - to win Olympic medals! Duhhhhhhh! This goal is easily measured - how many medals did they win? How do you measure success with the USSA goals? They way USSA wants it is like BHO did when he commited to "saving jobs." How do you measure that?

To take this a step further, look at the job the Ski team does in marketing it's product. Look at the public awareness of say, Bode or Lindsay vs.......ah, I can't think of anyone in sailing.

By virtually any yardstcik, the US Ski Team organization has been successful and the US Sailing team organization an abject failure. Yet USSA apparently does nothing to change or improve the programs.....why is that?

Lastly, we have the two recurring issues of the USSA "election" process and the stealth mandatory membership programs. I have seen no change whatsoever on these points. The USSA "elections" continue in a controlled, closed process designed to ensure the incumbants retain their positions and that the present processes are continued. Incumbants are not asked to justify what they did during their tenure and there is no meaningful debate or statements from those running. The election process is managed by an evil wizard hiding behing a curtain and pulling levers.

With regard to the stealth mandatory membership program, folks are virtually forced to join USSA, whether or not they support the organization. These programs were initiated in order to raise revenue as the membership was in a decline and few saw any value in USSA. When confronted with this issue, USSA merely responded with a statement to the effect that the membership simply didn't understand all the good that USSA does. I find that attitude to be arrogant and insulting. I much prefer the expression from Marie Antoinette, when the French masses were starving and demanded more food, she famously stated "let them eat cake."


Imo, the readability of The rule book for USS relates directly to the leadership. That's why I mentioned it.


OK. But you do know that the RRS is written and published by ISAF, and not USSA, don't you?

#44 tikipete

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 04:26 PM

No, I didn't not but that makes the problem worse, not better. Now I have an autocratic organization telling me what to do and it isn't even American.

I can understand international rules for international events but I'm opposed to having a foreign authority dictate rules for local and national events.

If ISAF wishes to recommend rules and procedures that's one thing, mandating them is quite another.

#45 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 05:49 PM

No, I didn't not but that makes the problem worse, not better. Now I have an autocratic organization telling me what to do and it isn't even American.

I can understand international rules for international events but I'm opposed to having a foreign authority dictate rules for local and national events.

If ISAF wishes to recommend rules and procedures that's one thing, mandating them is quite another.


You do have your issues, don't you?

#46 tikipete

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 06:05 PM

Yep.

#47 I'moutahere

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 06:54 PM

Yep.


You know that YOU don't have to follow the ISAF rules. Good luck on the race course & make sure your boat and health insurance is paid up.

#48 tikipete

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:08 PM

I always follow the rules, I'm grossly conservative.

I have noticed port tackers and bargers become more aggressive every year.

#49 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:10 PM

Now, another issue on this thread relates to PHRF and the role of USSA in the PH process.

PHRF was started locally, many years ago, in SoCal by several folks, experienced sailors all, who saw a need for local handicaps for disimiliar boats. PHRF was an overnight success, adopted across the country, evolving into the most widespread handicap system in the US. And yes, there have been some bitches about bias, but, on balance, it worked because it was responsive. You could easily get on the local Board. You could influence their actions by submitting data and arguing your position. The growth in PH paralleled (drove?)the dynamic growth in yacht racing in the 70's and 80's. It was a system all could use and enjoy without going to the expense of a custom IOR program. Long live the 4 kt SB's!

The point is, it was started locally by a group of sailors who banded together to fill a need. Where was our national body in this process? Oh yes, like BHO, leading from behind. Apparently they now see the need and want to try and manage that process. They are looking for something to do. Where were they when the process began?

IMO, PHRF needs to remain local as conditions vary between sailing locales. Who needs or wants a faceless, unresponsive national body, that is not elected (no, the election is a farce and a non-election), managing a process that was begun and has thrived under local control?

Further, who needs USSA for anything? Free the people. OCCUPY USSA!

#50 I'moutahere

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:11 PM

I always follow the rules, I'm grossly conservative.

I have noticed port tackers and bargers become more aggressive every year.

Then why are you whinging about following rules that are produced by a non American organisation?

tikipete
Posted Today, 03:26 AM

No, I didn't not but that makes the problem worse, not better. Now I have an autocratic organization telling me what to do and it isn't even American.

I can understand international rules for international events but I'm opposed to having a foreign authority dictate rules for local and national events.

If ISAF wishes to recommend rules and procedures that's one thing, mandating them is quite another.



#51 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:11 PM

I always follow the rules, I'm grossly conservative.

I have noticed port tackers and bargers become more aggressive every year.



Just yell "mast abeam." That will stop their aggressive, heinous actions.

#52 I'moutahere

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:17 PM

Now, another issue on this thread relates to PHRF and the role of USSA in the PH process.

PHRF was started locally, many years ago, in SoCal by several folks, experienced sailors all, who saw a need for local handicaps for disimiliar boats. PHRF was an overnight success, adopted across the country, evolving into the most widespread handicap system in the US. And yes, there have been some bitches about bias, but, on balance, it worked because it was responsive. You could easily get on the local Board. You could influence their actions by submitting data and arguing your position. The growth in PH paralleled (drove?)the dynamic growth in yacht racing in the 70's and 80's. It was a system all could use and enjoy without going to the expense of a custom IOR program. Long live the 4 kt SB's!

The point is, it was started locally by a group of sailors who banded together to fill a need. Where was our national body in this process? Oh yes, like BHO, leading from behind. Apparently they now see the need and want to try and manage that process. They are looking for something to do. Where were they when the process began?

IMO, PHRF needs to remain local as conditions vary between sailing locales. Who needs or wants a faceless, unresponsive national body, that is not elected (no, the election is a farce and a non-election), managing a process that was begun and has thrived under local control?

Further, who needs USSA for anything? Free the people. OCCUPY USSA!

NAYRU then wasn't it?

Purely out of interest, isn't there an issue with various areas using different versions of PHRF, or different rules, or something like that? Wouldn't it make sense if the PHRF rules were uniform all over the country?

By the way, 2012 is OK so far. 6 hrs & 18 minutes into it. Happy NY.

#53 tikipete

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:19 PM


I always follow the rules, I'm grossly conservative.

I have noticed port tackers and bargers become more aggressive every year.

Then why are you whinging about following rules that are produced by a non American organisation?

tikipete
Posted Today, 03:26 AM

No, I didn't not but that makes the problem worse, not better. Now I have an autocratic organization telling me what to do and it isn't even American.

I can understand international rules for international events but I'm opposed to having a foreign authority dictate rules for local and national events.

If ISAF wishes to recommend rules and procedures that's one thing, mandating them is quite another.

Frustration I quess. If the rules are imposed by some far away authority I think they are respected less.

I sail multihulls and being tossed from the Olympics is another.

But I note there is a lot of dissatisfaction. I'm inclined to think there is a reason and that reason is secrecy.

#54 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:20 PM

Some some things that have personally impressed me about Gary Jobson as a leader of an organization:-

1. No sacred cows. He has boldly stated that "Everything that we do at US Sailing is on the table". He challenges US Sailing to be relevant or not to do it all.

2. He is time efficient. He runs tight efficient meetings and is respectful of volunteer's time.

3. He is a volunteer and he is personaly generous to the organization. FWIW, I observe that Gary Jobson contribution and travel schedule on behalf of USS is as effective as the paid chair of many corporate boards that I have seen.

4. He prioritizes issues effectively. Volunteer organizations are very good at going round in endless circles. My brief exposure to Jobson is that he cuts through agendas by asking "What is really important to sailing in North America here?" "What are we really trying to achieve?".

5. He has retained some of the irrevence and humor that allows him to challenge bureacracy. Remember, he came from the afterguard of Ted Turner's Courageous who were anarchists in their own right. I believe he remains a good friend of Turner, who could never be accused of being a conformist. At the same time Jobson balances this with a genuine respect for the institutions, yacht clubs and people that make up the fabric of the sailing community. The same guy can challenge our ISAF delegation with some edgy questions but in the evening give a genuine and emotional speech accompanying an award to a veteran of the sailing community. He can be critical of policy without being critical of people. Its a valuable skill.

6. He knows how to use the soap box. He's a good speaker and its important.

7. He is good at motivating people. He takes an interest in their agendas but is quick to delegate. He likes to resolve difficult issues promptly. "If something doesn't taste good, lets not chew on it"

8. He has got some relevant projects underway USS that are directly associated with sailors and nothing to do with Olympics. The results of the 3 enquiries are the credit (or debit) of the authors. The impetus to launch them came largely from the board led by jobson. Even the most critical anarchist will score that two out of three. Which brings me to another topic. Its much better to do stuff and get some things wrong than do nothing and get nothing wrong.


I sense that Jobson is frustrated with ISAF. He was speaking at dinner shortly after returning from Puerto Rico. " I thought I would share with you some of the progess that was made at ISAF over two days of meetings" he said......then he paused for 2 silent minutes, looked at his notes, and said "and that's all I have to report on progress at ISAF".
But Jobson believes in constructive criticism, so he probably doesnt want that story out there. He will critique in a manner to try and see some positive changes rather than criticism for its own sake.

In short.....its a part time volunteer job. We got a good 'un. Who can we find to come next??


You talk about personal characteristics such as being punctual and speaking well. OK. I'll stipulate.

Now, what has USSA accomplished over the past few years? Specifically?

#55 tikipete

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:21 PM


I always follow the rules, I'm grossly conservative.

I have noticed port tackers and bargers become more aggressive every year.



Just yell "mast abeam." That will stop their aggressive, heinous actions.


B) I've found looking the other way works best, if they think you don't see them they're likely to cut the bs.

#56 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:26 PM


Now, another issue on this thread relates to PHRF and the role of USSA in the PH process.

PHRF was started locally, many years ago, in SoCal by several folks, experienced sailors all, who saw a need for local handicaps for disimiliar boats. PHRF was an overnight success, adopted across the country, evolving into the most widespread handicap system in the US. And yes, there have been some bitches about bias, but, on balance, it worked because it was responsive. You could easily get on the local Board. You could influence their actions by submitting data and arguing your position. The growth in PH paralleled (drove?)the dynamic growth in yacht racing in the 70's and 80's. It was a system all could use and enjoy without going to the expense of a custom IOR program. Long live the 4 kt SB's!

The point is, it was started locally by a group of sailors who banded together to fill a need. Where was our national body in this process? Oh yes, like BHO, leading from behind. Apparently they now see the need and want to try and manage that process. They are looking for something to do. Where were they when the process began?

IMO, PHRF needs to remain local as conditions vary between sailing locales. Who needs or wants a faceless, unresponsive national body, that is not elected (no, the election is a farce and a non-election), managing a process that was begun and has thrived under local control?

Further, who needs USSA for anything? Free the people. OCCUPY USSA!

NAYRU then wasn't it?

Purely out of interest, isn't there an issue with various areas using different versions of PHRF, or different rules, or something like that? Wouldn't it make sense if the PHRF rules were uniform all over the country?

By the way, 2012 is OK so far. 6 hrs & 18 minutes into it. Happy NY.


No, 4 kt SB's should not rate the same over the country as sailing conditions differ as in, e.g. predominately heavy air locales vs light air. My point is that the national body was not involved in the process and helping to develop what turned out to be the most successful handicap system ever. They never saw the need. locals did and they pulled it off.

Chops to the guys who took the time and initiative to develop the system. And, BTW, why aren't they all in the sailing "Hall of Fame?" who has contibuted more to the sport? Again, yet another failure of USSA.

#57 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 07:29 PM



I always follow the rules, I'm grossly conservative.

I have noticed port tackers and bargers become more aggressive every year.



Just yell "mast abeam." That will stop their aggressive, heinous actions.


B) I've found looking the other way works best, if they think you don't see them they're likely to cut the bs.


I guess you don't race against Espo. He will either hit you, yell obsenities or make obscure hand gestures.

Or, all of the above.

#58 tikipete

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 08:01 PM

And you have not protested him?

That is abusive. If he does it once it's his fault. If he does it twice it's your fault.

Never forget there is a new moon every 28 days.

#59 DoRag

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Posted 31 December 2011 - 08:17 PM

And you have not protested him?

That is abusive. If he does it once it's his fault. If he does it twice it's your fault.

Never forget there is a new moon every 28 days.


It's not my fault. Nothing is my fault.

On a slightly different topic, you might note that all of your posts have the same number. it's time to OCCUPY SA!

#60 flatearth

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 12:24 AM

Now, what has USSA accomplished over the past few years? Specifically?


Year in Review 2011

Report to Members

#61 DoRag

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 12:59 AM



Now, what has USSA accomplished over the past few years? Specifically?


Year in Review 2011

Report to Members


Yes, there are Judges, PROs and insurance. Just as before. Just as with USYRU. There is nothing new or anything that represents a unique achievement in those lists. What an organization accomplishes needs to be measured against their stated objectives - in this case against the objectives as stated in the USSA Bylaws.

#62 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 02:58 AM

Seeing as you asked for a report card on GJ and I just got my SW which had the Jobson Report about the Young and Upcoming sailors.

After reading it I thought "Why did Gary leave out the young and upcoming disabled Sonar, 2.4mR or SKUD sailors needed for the USDST and Paralympic Team?".

Then I thought, USS lets yacht clubs do this and unless some member has a disabled kid or you are lucky enough to belong to a deep pocked club when you become disabled, you might have a shot. Because if you live on the West coast, you will need big bucks to do any competition because USS and the West Coast Clubs don't...................whatever.

Basically if you don't have lots of money..............USS could care less. That's what USS is about. I guess Gary only sees one side of sailing.


I give USS and GJ an F for F'd Up priorities.


When I had my email conversation with GJ, I asked him to give me one name or get me in touch with one person on the west coast with deep pockets who might be interested in helping with disabled sailing out here so I could talk to them and lay down my ideas to help and foster Paralympic level sailing. Instead of saying "Dave, I do not know anyone whom I can refer you to", he just didn't say anything and passed the buck. I never ever intended any of my ideas to be a benefit to me. My days are over and if all I have is to keep beating the drum, then I will.

to that I say Thanks and have a great New Year.


rant over

#63 Tcatman

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Posted 01 January 2012 - 10:12 PM

Why did Gary leave out the young and upcoming disabled Sonar, 2.4mR or SKUD sailors needed for the USDST and Paralympic Team?".


Good point... why did Gary leave out the up and coming Special Olympian's who compete for the US Special Olympics Sailing Teams?

I am sure if he had mentioned Paraolympic sailing... your rant would have been ... US sailing takes credit for paraolympic success but did nothing to warrant this.

get me in touch with one person on the west coast with deep pockets who might be interested in helping with disabled sailing


Good point.... Why doesn't Gary have a list of rich sailors who think that funding a recreational sport should be the focus of their charitable giving.... what with hunger and disease leading to death an ongoing major issue in the US and the world.


I just don't get all rants about US sailing and the leadership and staff devolve to... Somebody should give lots of money to support my pet sailing initiative and US Sailing should make it so and they are failures! (no matter how noble your intentions.... we are talking about a sport here!)

No offense directed at you and your accomplishments... BUT in the list of issues facing sailboat racing sustainablity... IMO, ParaOlympics and Special Olympics are low on the list for getting major national initiatives.

#64 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 01:43 AM

Why did Gary leave out the young and upcoming disabled Sonar, 2.4mR or SKUD sailors needed for the USDST and Paralympic Team?".


Good point... why did Gary leave out the up and coming Special Olympian's who compete for the US Special Olympics Sailing Teams?

I am sure if he had mentioned Paraolympic sailing... your rant would have been ... US sailing takes credit for paraolympic success but did nothing to warrant this.

get me in touch with one person on the west coast with deep pockets who might be interested in helping with disabled sailing


Good point.... Why doesn't Gary have a list of rich sailors who think that funding a recreational sport should be the focus of their charitable giving.... what with hunger and disease leading to death an ongoing major issue in the US and the world.


I just don't get all rants about US sailing and the leadership and staff devolve to... Somebody should give lots of money to support my pet sailing initiative and US Sailing should make it so and they are failures! (no matter how noble your intentions.... we are talking about a sport here!)

No offense directed at you and your accomplishments... BUT in the list of issues facing sailboat racing sustainablity... IMO, ParaOlympics and Special Olympics are low on the list for getting major national initiatives.


What a DORK.........First:

The Special Olympics are a totally different event and you know as well as many here do that the Special Olymnpics are for those who have severe Mental Issues (like many here seem to have :lol: you included). If you think the Paralympics are on par with the Special Olympics, You had better get in a 2.4 and race an open event.....If you got the fuzzies to try it.

Second:

To think the the MAN Gary Jobson does not know someone who might be a benefactor for Paralympic Level racing on the west coast is absurd...... I asked the MAN GARY.....not the USS President.....even though my conversation began with the president of USS....Gary Jobson.

Go back to your Tcat.............and I hope you feel special.

#65 Tcatman

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 02:57 AM


Why did Gary leave out the young and upcoming disabled Sonar, 2.4mR or SKUD sailors needed for the USDST and Paralympic Team?".


Good point... why did Gary leave out the up and coming Special Olympian's who compete for the US Special Olympics Sailing Teams?

I am sure if he had mentioned Paraolympic sailing... your rant would have been ... US sailing takes credit for paraolympic success but did nothing to warrant this.

get me in touch with one person on the west coast with deep pockets who might be interested in helping with disabled sailing


Good point.... Why doesn't Gary have a list of rich sailors who think that funding a recreational sport should be the focus of their charitable giving.... what with hunger and disease leading to death an ongoing major issue in the US and the world.


I just don't get all rants about US sailing and the leadership and staff devolve to... Somebody should give lots of money to support my pet sailing initiative and US Sailing should make it so and they are failures! (no matter how noble your intentions.... we are talking about a sport here!)

No offense directed at you and your accomplishments... BUT in the list of issues facing sailboat racing sustainablity... IMO, ParaOlympics and Special Olympics are low on the list for getting major national initiatives.


What a DORK.........First:

The Special Olympics are a totally different event and you know as well as many here do that the Special Olymnpics are for those who have severe Mental Issues (like many here seem to have :lol: you included). If you think the Paralympics are on par with the Special Olympics, You had better get in a 2.4 and race an open event.....If you got the fuzzies to try it.

Second:

To think the the MAN Gary Jobson does not know someone who might be a benefactor for Paralympic Level racing on the west coast is absurd...... I asked the MAN GARY.....not the USS President.....even though my conversation began with the president of USS....Gary Jobson.

Go back to your Tcat.............and I hope you feel special.

I See sarcasm escapes you. ... Your slippery slope evaluating apples and oranges has left you at the bottom of ditch and why your rants are just noise.

You think that there is some hiarchy of sailing classes and events that warrant more attention from US Sailing and the rest of the sailing fans. In your view, physically disabled sailing trumps mentally disabled sailing and we should give more consideration to the accomplishments of the physically disabled...... bulshit! All of these individuals worked for their accomplishments!


Your premise is a useless false equivalence between olympic and paraolympic sailing ... It's the same useless debate that laser sailors are better then sunfish sailors... blah blah blah. US Sailing and the rest of the world DO NOT CARE! Its just silly to compare apples to oranges as you are doing. Whining about the percieved slight of para olympic junior sailors is petty.

Special Olympics IS just as important as Para-olympic Sailing as important as Opti sailing or America's Cup Sailing.... to the sailors who compete in those classes. Enough said.

So... after all of these years... you still believe there is a disabled sailing benefactor hiding in the closet and NOBODY (including Gary Jobson) will tell you who this person is? (Maybe he is taking care of the unicorn).

#66 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 03:17 AM

I See sarcasm escapes you. ...

After almost 11 years tending the flock here, it is hard to tell where someone is being real or sarcastic. Sorry if I missed something that hit me very close to home.

It's the same useless debate that laser sailors are better then sunfish sailors... blah blah blah. US Sailing and the rest of the world DO NOT CARE! Its just silly to compare apples to oranges as you are doing. Whining about the percieved slight of para olympic junior sailors is petty.


Laser vs Sunfish Sailors...........I'm laughing and spitting out my rum and coke. Incidentally I bought a new rum, Cuban recipe made in the Dominican Republic.....this stuff is the best Rum I have tried. I wonder if it were made in Cuba it would taste different.

Special Olympics IS just as important as Para-olympic Sailing as important as Opti sailing or America's Cup Sailing.... to the sailors who compete in those classes. Enough said.

Apples and Oranges...................I think you had better taste the difference again.

While most Special Olympic competitors probably feel that what they are doing is fun and important in some speical way......how many are cognitive of what they are really doing and the amount of money and training that really go into being an Olympic/Paralympic Athlete? I suggest you visit Port Charolette YC in Port Charolette, Florida starting on the 10th of this month and talk to some of the Paralympic Athletes at the 2012 IFDS Worlds and then see if it is on Para with the Special Olympics.

So... after all of these years... you still believe there is a disabled sailing benefactor hiding in the closet and NOBODY (including Gary Jobson) will tell you who this person is? (Maybe he is taking care of the unicorn).


No, I think Gary wants to keep all the benefactors he can for his Beloved Leukemia Cup, something that hit him close to home.....Get It.

Unicorn? I bet you took the Red Pill.

#67 I'moutahere

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 07:47 AM


I See sarcasm escapes you. ...

After almost 11 years tending the flock here, it is hard to tell where someone is being real or sarcastic. Sorry if I missed something that hit me very close to home.

It's the same useless debate that laser sailors are better then sunfish sailors... blah blah blah. US Sailing and the rest of the world DO NOT CARE! Its just silly to compare apples to oranges as you are doing. Whining about the percieved slight of para olympic junior sailors is petty.


Laser vs Sunfish Sailors...........I'm laughing and spitting out my rum and coke. Incidentally I bought a new rum, Cuban recipe made in the Dominican Republic.....this stuff is the best Rum I have tried. I wonder if it were made in Cuba it would taste different.

Special Olympics IS just as important as Para-olympic Sailing as important as Opti sailing or America's Cup Sailing.... to the sailors who compete in those classes. Enough said.

Apples and Oranges...................I think you had better taste the difference again.

While most Special Olympic competitors probably feel that what they are doing is fun and important in some speical way......how many are cognitive of what they are really doing and the amount of money and training that really go into being an Olympic/Paralympic Athlete? I suggest you visit Port Charolette YC in Port Charolette, Florida starting on the 10th of this month and talk to some of the Paralympic Athletes at the 2012 IFDS Worlds and then see if it is on Para with the Special Olympics.

So... after all of these years... you still believe there is a disabled sailing benefactor hiding in the closet and NOBODY (including Gary Jobson) will tell you who this person is? (Maybe he is taking care of the unicorn).


No, I think Gary wants to keep all the benefactors he can for his Beloved Leukemia Cup, something that hit him close to home.....Get It.

Unicorn? I bet you took the Red Pill.


Hey Dawg. Do you know about this?

#68 Viper640.org

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 07:53 PM


Some some things that have personally impressed me about Gary Jobson as a leader of an organization:-


You talk about personal characteristics such as being punctual and speaking well. OK. I'll stipulate.

Now, what has USSA accomplished over the past few years? Specifically?


Ahh, how about having the chops to RECRUIT someone like MK?

(Who if you don't already know, is the (damned near single-handed) force behind the resurrection of the Viper 640 Class)

#69 RockHead

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 08:21 PM

Dawg,
My ex-wfe (USS Board Member) pulled together a pretty significant grant through USS for disabled sailing. IIRC, it was essentially to replicate the adaptive sailing program she runs in Boston, teaching new disabled sailors, using the USS Keelboat Certification (adapted as necessary for individual needs). She had a hard time finding a West coast group that would do the program as proposed, approved and funded in the grant. I think BAADS is doing it, but I could be wrong. I don't really remember where the funding came from, but it might have been a Wounded Warrior/Pentagon/VA thing.
I recall her being pretty frustrated with west coast adaptive programs- "Here's a pile of $$ for you to do this, you just have to follow this curriculum, as this is what the funder agreed to." With the response essentially being, "No, pound sand. We won't take the $$ if we can't do everything our own way."
This is USS very deliberately seeking to expand the pool of sailors, providing funding and a roadmap. Pretty sure that hits the fundamental goal of the organization.The program is happening in 3-4 places around the country now, or in 2012 season, I believe. Details are a bit fuzzy, and I really don't want to ask, since we don't live together anymore! public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

You also say Gary "passed the buck" on your request. I've seen that entire email exchange. Another interpretation is that he delegated to the most qualified and informed staff and volunteers...


#70 DoRag

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:12 PM


I See sarcasm escapes you. ...

After almost 11 years tending the flock here, it is hard to tell where someone is being real or sarcastic. Sorry if I missed something that hit me very close to home.

It's the same useless debate that laser sailors are better then sunfish sailors... blah blah blah. US Sailing and the rest of the world DO NOT CARE! Its just silly to compare apples to oranges as you are doing. Whining about the percieved slight of para olympic junior sailors is petty.


Laser vs Sunfish Sailors...........I'm laughing and spitting out my rum and coke. Incidentally I bought a new rum, Cuban recipe made in the Dominican Republic.....this stuff is the best Rum I have tried. I wonder if it were made in Cuba it would taste different.

Special Olympics IS just as important as Para-olympic Sailing as important as Opti sailing or America's Cup Sailing.... to the sailors who compete in those classes. Enough said.

Apples and Oranges...................I think you had better taste the difference again.

While most Special Olympic competitors probably feel that what they are doing is fun and important in some speical way......how many are cognitive of what they are really doing and the amount of money and training that really go into being an Olympic/Paralympic Athlete? I suggest you visit Port Charolette YC in Port Charolette, Florida starting on the 10th of this month and talk to some of the Paralympic Athletes at the 2012 IFDS Worlds and then see if it is on Para with the Special Olympics.

So... after all of these years... you still believe there is a disabled sailing benefactor hiding in the closet and NOBODY (including Gary Jobson) will tell you who this person is? (Maybe he is taking care of the unicorn).


No, I think Gary wants to keep all the benefactors he can for his Beloved Leukemia Cup, something that hit him close to home.....Get It.

Unicorn? I bet you took the Red Pill.


You might recall that I exchanged Emails with you (and others)several years ago exploring the possibility of my buying a certain kind of boat suitable for providing an on the water experience for the Wounded Warrior program, with extended use by others.

It seemed everyone had a different idea and a different emphasis so I opted to pursue other disabled programs in other venues. So, in fact, the funds were avaiable.

#71 tikipete

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 09:33 PM

Dawg,
My ex-wfe (USS Board Member) pulled together a pretty significant grant through USS for disabled sailing. IIRC, it was essentially to replicate the adaptive sailing program she runs in Boston, teaching new disabled sailors, using the USS Keelboat Certification (adapted as necessary for individual needs). She had a hard time finding a West coast group that would do the program as proposed, approved and funded in the grant. I think BAADS is doing it, but I could be wrong. I don't really remember where the funding came from, but it might have been a Wounded Warrior/Pentagon/VA thing.
I recall her being pretty frustrated with west coast adaptive programs- "Here's a pile of $$ for you to do this, you just have to follow this curriculum, as this is what the funder agreed to." With the response essentially being, "No, pound sand. We won't take the $$ if we can't do everything our own way."
This is USS very deliberately seeking to expand the pool of sailors, providing funding and a roadmap. Pretty sure that hits the fundamental goal of the organization.The program is happening in 3-4 places around the country now, or in 2012 season, I believe. Details are a bit fuzzy, and I really don't want to ask, since we don't live together anymore! public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

You also say Gary "passed the buck" on your request. I've seen that entire email exchange. Another interpretation is that he delegated to the most qualified and informed staff and volunteers...


Kudos to your ex. Thanks for pointing this out.

#72 jocal505

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Posted 02 January 2012 - 10:03 PM

You might recall that I exchanged Emails with you (and others)several years ago exploring the possibility of my buying a certain kind of boat suitable for providing an on the water experience for the Wounded Warrior program, with extended use by others.

It seemed everyone had a different idea and a different emphasis so I opted to pursue other disabled programs in other venues. So, in fact, the funds were avaiable.


Only on SA folks. Unbelievable. Can't make up stuff like this.

#73 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 03:28 AM

Dawg,
My ex-wfe (USS Board Member) pulled together a pretty significant grant through USS for disabled sailing. IIRC, it was essentially to replicate the adaptive sailing program she runs in Boston, teaching new disabled sailors, using the USS Keelboat Certification (adapted as necessary for individual needs). She had a hard time finding a West coast group that would do the program as proposed, approved and funded in the grant. I think BAADS is doing it, but I could be wrong. I don't really remember where the funding came from, but it might have been a Wounded Warrior/Pentagon/VA thing.
I recall her being pretty frustrated with west coast adaptive programs- "Here's a pile of $$ for you to do this, you just have to follow this curriculum, as this is what the funder agreed to." With the response essentially being, "No, pound sand. We won't take the $$ if we can't do everything our own way."
This is USS very deliberately seeking to expand the pool of sailors, providing funding and a roadmap. Pretty sure that hits the fundamental goal of the organization.The program is happening in 3-4 places around the country now, or in 2012 season, I believe. Details are a bit fuzzy, and I really don't want to ask, since we don't live together anymore! public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

You also say Gary "passed the buck" on your request. I've seen that entire email exchange. Another interpretation is that he delegated to the most qualified and informed staff and volunteers...


I know that out here on the west coast people do not like being told they have to do it like some one on the East Coast Dictates. and Vise Versa. Maybe it was by design to dictate to the west, knowing it would not happen in order to keep money back east. (It's all a power trip) Which is one of the Problems with USS.....This country is too big for one Organization to control and set standards, especially with out any television revenue like most other Sport RNA's. Even Little League gets more air time than Pro sailing....LOL

I was pissed that Gary was not Man enough to give me an answer like "I'm sorry, but I do not know anyone like you are asking.". Instead he gave no answer and passed the buck......like most leaders do....Delagation....pass the buck, it is all the same. He avoided giving an answer, which I see as a way to personally not own the issue. Great Leadership

Basically if there was money, USS could form a Nonprofit out here (there are plenty of volunteers) and do exactly what they want. But they Don't.

There have been 3 IFDS Worlds here in the US since I became disabled in 98. I've never stop working and I have tried to sail as often as possible, 99.9% of it back east. I've never been able to do any of the Worlds because of the Lack of $$$ and lack of preparation. Lack of Preparation because the only racing is back east, too expensive to travel all the time. Just ask Balboa YC how many races Nick Sailed out west. Why do you think they spent $250K for him to get to China. Everything is back east because YC's back there seem to do things. Maybe there is some inside push by USS because they are back east too?? I have no idea. All I know is the power base is back east and so are all the events....please do not mention the 2012 Independence Cup. It is an Oly/Paralympic year an now one cares to travel. I don't even know what kind of boats are going to be used. Which is Why I was asking Gary for a Benefactor, someone to buy 6 to 12 2.4mR that could be used for events like this and for the Wounded Warrior events also. The 2 seem to go hand in hand.

I work full time to pay my mortgage, family bills and get my son through College. (I've never asked for nor taken any Gov assistance, nor will. Maybe some day I will be able to volunteer and do something besides beat the drum.......It's the Local SO Cal YC's I want to do something but I think I'll probably join Nick before they do anything.


You might recall that I exchanged Emails with you (and others)several years ago exploring the possibility of my buying a certain kind of boat suitable for providing an on the water experience for the Wounded Warrior program, with extended use by others.

It seemed everyone had a different idea and a different emphasis so I opted to pursue other disabled programs in other venues. So, in fact, the funds were avaiable.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I was never included in these emails you talk about.

It might have been Challenged America, which I can say does not like being dictated to either. You make a donation to them and they use it., no strings attached.

He Do, Why can't the Asso of Ambulance Chasers donate enough money to buy a small fleet of 2.4mR for the Wounded Warriors and Paralympic level Events??







Time Out

#74 Christian

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 04:44 AM


Dawg,
My ex-wfe (USS Board Member) pulled together a pretty significant grant through USS for disabled sailing. IIRC, it was essentially to replicate the adaptive sailing program she runs in Boston, teaching new disabled sailors, using the USS Keelboat Certification (adapted as necessary for individual needs). She had a hard time finding a West coast group that would do the program as proposed, approved and funded in the grant. I think BAADS is doing it, but I could be wrong. I don't really remember where the funding came from, but it might have been a Wounded Warrior/Pentagon/VA thing.
I recall her being pretty frustrated with west coast adaptive programs- "Here's a pile of $ for you to do this, you just have to follow this curriculum, as this is what the funder agreed to." With the response essentially being, "No, pound sand. We won't take the $ if we can't do everything our own way."
This is USS very deliberately seeking to expand the pool of sailors, providing funding and a roadmap. Pretty sure that hits the fundamental goal of the organization.The program is happening in 3-4 places around the country now, or in 2012 season, I believe. Details are a bit fuzzy, and I really don't want to ask, since we don't live together anymore! public/style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif

You also say Gary "passed the buck" on your request. I've seen that entire email exchange. Another interpretation is that he delegated to the most qualified and informed staff and volunteers...


I know that out here on the west coast people do not like being told they have to do it like some one on the East Coast Dictates. and Vise Versa. Maybe it was by design to dictate to the west, knowing it would not happen in order to keep money back east. (It's all a power trip) Which is one of the Problems with USS.....This country is too big for one Organization to control and set standards, especially with out any television revenue like most other Sport RNA's. Even Little League gets more air time than Pro sailing....LOL

I was pissed that Gary was not Man enough to give me an answer like "I'm sorry, but I do not know anyone like you are asking.". Instead he gave no answer and passed the buck......like most leaders do....Delagation....pass the buck, it is all the same. He avoided giving an answer, which I see as a way to personally not own the issue. Great Leadership

Basically if there was money, USS could form a Nonprofit out here (there are plenty of volunteers) and do exactly what they want. But they Don't.

There have been 3 IFDS Worlds here in the US since I became disabled in 98. I've never stop working and I have tried to sail as often as possible, 99.9% of it back east. I've never been able to do any of the Worlds because of the Lack of $$ and lack of preparation. Lack of Preparation because the only racing is back east, too expensive to travel all the time. Just ask Balboa YC how many races Nick Sailed out west. Why do you think they spent $250K for him to get to China. Everything is back east because YC's back there seem to do things. Maybe there is some inside push by USS because they are back east too?? I have no idea. All I know is the power base is back east and so are all the events....please do not mention the 2012 Independence Cup. It is an Oly/Paralympic year an now one cares to travel. I don't even know what kind of boats are going to be used. Which is Why I was asking Gary for a Benefactor, someone to buy 6 to 12 2.4mR that could be used for events like this and for the Wounded Warrior events also. The 2 seem to go hand in hand.

I work full time to pay my mortgage, family bills and get my son through College. (I've never asked for nor taken any Gov assistance, nor will. Maybe some day I will be able to volunteer and do something besides beat the drum.......It's the Local SO Cal YC's I want to do something but I think I'll probably join Nick before they do anything.


You might recall that I exchanged Emails with you (and others)several years ago exploring the possibility of my buying a certain kind of boat suitable for providing an on the water experience for the Wounded Warrior program, with extended use by others.

It seemed everyone had a different idea and a different emphasis so I opted to pursue other disabled programs in other venues. So, in fact, the funds were avaiable.


I have no idea what you are talking about. I was never included in these emails you talk about.

It might have been Challenged America, which I can say does not like being dictated to either. You make a donation to them and they use it., no strings attached.

He Do, Why can't the Asso of Ambulance Chasers donate enough money to buy a small fleet of 2.4mR for the Wounded Warriors and Paralympic level Events??







Time Out


Sorry bud but you come off like a fucking wanker in this. Maybe it is not easy to get a box of money with no strings attached - but that is not news - in any part of life. If there is money available it is curious that none of the left coast YC's cannot be convinced to step up to the plate. Maybe the problem is not with USS

#75 SW Sailor

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Posted 03 January 2012 - 06:40 AM


I have written to him personally, under my real name, but received no response.


I suggest then that you try again. He undoubtedly receives a lot of email and, being only human, some things can slip through at times. Unless you were particularly rude in your reply I highly doubt he ignored an email out of malice or lack of interest.


I appealed to Gary as well as several of his staff regarding the gross disregard of a local YC to assume the fundamental responsibility of conducting a protest hearing in a situation that involved a severe collision and life threatening injury. After a year and a half of trying to work with the YC and having them flat out refuse to conduct a protest hearing, USSA was my second to last resort.

Gary never responded, but several on his staff did, and on multiple occasions via both e-mail and telephone, and interceded unsuccessfully with the YC so a protest hearing was eventually set up with 5 local judges and a proper hearing was eventually conducted. In my dealings with several USSA staff throughout the process, I will say they took the situation very seriously and provided valuable support and assistance in a difficult situation - one that they'd never experienced before so we were in uncharted waters. While responses were sometimes delayed as these folks have daytime jobs that also involve travel, the matter remained on their radar screen until successfully resolved.

Not going to get into the other "performance against by-laws", etc, but I presented these folks with a difficult situation and they put forth a full court press that took several months to address and successfully addressed it. Both Gary and his organization get credit in my book.

My other interactions have been with the rating office and they have been very supportive and responsive.

I'm not sure how much we can expect one individual or one organization to correct issues in a few years that have manifested themselves over several years, but he seems to have the organization moving in the right direction which in an of itself is an accomplishment.



#76 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 01:29 AM

Sorry bud but you come off like a fucking wanker in this. Maybe it is not easy to get a box of money with no strings attached - but that is not news - in any part of life. If there is money available it is curious that none of the left coast YC's cannot be convinced to step up to the plate. Maybe the problem is not with USS


Posted Image

It ain't about me..............how many times to I have to say this. Stand by for more.

#77 Delta Blues

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 02:44 AM

Undoubtedly Gary gets props for having smoothed out many disruptive issues and customer service issues. Good on him.

However, these feel good things last as long as he is in office. It is a management style that does shift based on who the leader is. Can he find someone to become the next president that doesn't fall back into the poor mindset of the past? Look who the nominating chair is, Jimmy Capron. Jimmy boy needs to wake up and allow the organization to continue to move forward and not fall backwards into his way of thinking. It's not easy to do, he'll have to man-up to do it, but it needs to be done.

Gary needed to rid the organization of Hubbell. Hubbell is a well meaning doctor but terribly misguided into thinking U.S. Sailing should be run like a doctor's office. Doctors are godlike and know all. U.S. Sailing should be no different in his eyes. He pushed the for-profit corporate structure (pyramid) onto U.S. Sailing. But for those of us who understand REPRESENTATION, who understand why the House of Representatives has 435 members and that when U.S. Sailing did have 53 members on their board of directors it was actually a good healthy way to manage. However, when they went to the 12 member board, what they really accomplished is firing their volunteers. Many volunteers quit attending the twice a year meetings as they did not have authority and no longer held a voice. Attendance became so pathetic that Jobson ordered no conference calls for this latest fall meeting to force volunteers to come in person. That idea backfired and conference calls were allowed. Yup, Gary and all of U.S. Sailing has a problem that they've lost their volunteer corp. Getting rid of God-like Hubbell, and moving back to a "representative" organization will cause the organization to begin to get back on tracks.

The organization has improved on Public Relations, but is still crippled in the organizational structure with no plan in place to revamp the organization back to a representative model.

As a result I give Mr. Jobson an F.


The point being, there's the immediate feel good stuff, and then there is the legacy stuff. What legacy stuff will be there two years from now (a year after he is gone)?

#78 jocal505

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:58 AM


Sorry bud but you come off like a fucking wanker in this. Maybe it is not easy to get a box of money with no strings attached - but that is not news - in any part of life. If there is money available it is curious that none of the left coast YC's cannot be convinced to step up to the plate. Maybe the problem is not with USS


It ain't about me..............how many times to I have to say this. Stand by for more.


Dawg, you are the representative, the face, of your own request.
You don't want to leave us with a bad taste in our mouths for disabled sailing, or disabled anything.

Consider your irritating banishment from that forum---you may have learned your diplomacy from the old Scot. Just sayin...

#79 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 03:45 PM

I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.

#80 tikipete

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:00 PM

Until there is an organized and funded opposition any response from USS could only polarize their adversaries, why would they do that?

Organize an opposition. Publish the number of members and amount of money pledged and then see what happens.

#81 Delta Blues

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:01 PM



I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.



So much for the annual thing for the YC summit, no plans for it in 2012. And affordable? That word can't be used in the same sentence with U.$. $ailing!

#82 DoRag

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:21 PM

Until there is an organized and funded opposition any response from USS could only polarize their adversaries, why would they do that?

Organize an opposition. Publish the number of members and amount of money pledged and then see what happens.


I think it would be unrealistic to mount a legal challenge to USSA.

What would be much more practical, and just as effective, would be to organize a financial boycott. Thjat is, don't renew your membership. Encourage your friends to not renew their memberships. And beware of all the stealth memberships - like KWRW and the NOODS. Simply don't enter as they require USSA membership to race. Then organize a group at your YC to meet with the Board and challenge using member dues for a donation to USSA.

USSA has suffered declining membership and revenue for some time. The organization is quite top heavy with substantiual fixed costs. Hence, only a ten percent decline in revenue will force them to take actions. Once that process is initiated, more and more folks will become disenchanted with USSA and their "decline in service" and/or increase in fees. Then the death spiral will start. Kinda like our Federal government.

Again, this would be more effective and less costly way to force change upon USSA. OCCUPY USSA! Power to the people! Impeach Capron and his cronies!

#83 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:30 PM



I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.


Clean,

I recall an interview you did with Stan Honey which was really terrific. I don't know if you've interviewed John Craig, but I'd sure like to see a similar interview with him. I would love to hear what they think about these issues. Can you find them posting here? Probably not. Indeed, I think you'll find that your site doesn't actually serve the interests of a lot of sailors very well, even if you are correct about it being the largest sailing site. (which, personally, I think you are)

The best example I have is from the mother of a young sailor I know, one who I wrote about here on SA without using her name last year because she did something extraordinary. Her comment was: "I really don't want the name of my child on a soft-core porn site." Harsh, but a direct quote and generated because she had personally received the official SA greeting for all Newbies, had roamed around the site in the Forums for a time, and had outlawed your site for her kids until they are: "Old enough to understand why their father would like that sort of stuff."

While a lot of us find the language and photographs here in your Forums to be part of the fun, a lot of folks do not. I do NOT wish you to "tone it down", which is what this mother wanted. But, as a result, there will always be a segment of the population that will have nothing to do with assigning their name to a place where the unofficial greeting is "Fuck off Newbie and show us your girlfriend's tits!" from some anonymous troll.

BV

#84 DoRag

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 04:55 PM




I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.


Clean,

I recall an interview you did with Stan Honey which was really terrific. I don't know if you've interviewed John Craig, but I'd sure like to see a similar interview with him. I would love to hear what they think about these issues. Can you find them posting here? Probably not. Indeed, I think you'll find that your site doesn't actually serve the interests of a lot of sailors very well, even if you are correct about it being the largest sailing site. (which, personally, I think you are)

The best example I have is from the mother of a young sailor I know, one who I wrote about here on SA without using her name last year because she did something extraordinary. Her comment was: "I really don't want the name of my child on a soft-core porn site." Harsh, but a direct quote and generated because she had personally received the official SA greeting for all Newbies, had roamed around the site in the Forums for a time, and had outlawed your site for her kids until they are: "Old enough to understand why their father would like that sort of stuff."

While a lot of us find the language and photographs here in your Forums to be part of the fun, a lot of folks do not. I do NOT wish you to "tone it down", which is what this mother wanted. But, as a result, there will always be a segment of the population that will have nothing to do with assigning their name to a place where the unofficial greeting is "Fuck off Newbie and show us your girlfriend's tits!" from some anonymous troll.

BV


Thanks for sharing that.

Or not.

#85 Tcatman

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:07 PM




I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.



So much for the annual thing for the YC summit, no plans for it in 2012. And affordable? That word can't be used in the same sentence with U.$. $ailing!


Ah.... DB... did you attend the conference? Did they waste a lot of money putting it on?

If you did attend .... WHY do you think it should be a yearly event.... Seems to me... that YC 's move at glacial speeds and are extremely conservative (small c)... Every three years would probably give a YC enough time to make ANY changes they wanted to make based on a YC summit.

Is this just another DB spitball?

#86 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:12 PM



I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.


Clean,

I recall an interview you did with Stan Honey which was really terrific. I don't know if you've interviewed John Craig, but I'd sure like to see a similar interview with him. I would love to hear what they think about these issues. Can you find them posting here? Probably not. Indeed, I think you'll find that your site doesn't actually serve the interests of a lot of sailors very well, even if you are correct about it being the largest sailing site. (which, personally, I think you are)

The best example I have is from the mother of a young sailor I know, one who I wrote about here on SA without using her name last year because she did something extraordinary. Her comment was: "I really don't want the name of my child on a soft-core porn site." Harsh, but a direct quote and generated because she had personally received the official SA greeting for all Newbies, had roamed around the site in the Forums for a time, and had outlawed your site for her kids until they are: "Old enough to understand why their father would like that sort of stuff."

While a lot of us find the language and photographs here in your Forums to be part of the fun, a lot of folks do not. I do NOT wish you to "tone it down", which is what this mother wanted. But, as a result, there will always be a segment of the population that will have nothing to do with assigning their name to a place where the unofficial greeting is "Fuck off Newbie and show us your girlfriend's tits!" from some anonymous troll.

BV

Stan actually has posted here a handful of times, and I think Craig used to but don't know his login name, though both read it religiously. None of which is the point, of course.

The point is that whatever the tone is here, sailboat racers have proved that it is the online place that has attracted and retained the largest percentage of them. I'd argue that's because sailors are attracted to less restrictive tone, open discourse with other sailors, humor, news, and entertainment, all with a sense of shared community and experiences.

I'd further argue that the 'soft-core' porn that occasionally makes its way into the forums is incidental to that, and that only people who don't regularly read the site have the impression that SA is a 'soft-core porn site' or 'nothing but negative' or 'the National Enquirer of sailing...'

Regardless, having so many constituents and potential constituents in one place and having the ability to address them is a huge gift for an organization, but only if it has the slightest clue how to use it. An effective and professional PR strategy from USS would of course include every possible communication avenue and a strategy to use each, and SA would be pretty high on that list. But that would take a professional and effective PR strategy - not something USS is known for!

#87 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:25 PM

...snip...
Stan actually has posted here a handful of times, and I think Craig used to but don't know his login name, though both read it religiously. None of which is the point, of course.

The point is that whatever the tone is here, sailboat racers have proved that it is the online place that has attracted and retained the largest percentage of them. I'd argue that's because sailors are attracted to less restrictive tone, open discourse with other sailors, humor, news, and entertainment, all with a sense of shared community and experiences.

I'd further argue that the 'soft-core' porn that occasionally makes its way into the forums is incidental to that, and that only people who don't regularly read the site have the impression that SA is a 'soft-core porn site' or 'nothing but negative' or 'the National Enquirer of sailing...'

Regardless, having so many constituents and potential constituents in one place and having the ability to address them is a huge gift for an organization, but only if it has the slightest clue how to use it. An effective and professional PR strategy from USS would of course include every possible communication avenue and a strategy to use each, and SA would be pretty high on that list. But that would take a professional and effective PR strategy - not something USS is known for!


On the lack of an effective PR strategy that utilizes SA for the benefit of US Sailing, I couldn't agree more. Further, I will give you that there is plenty here that is helpful to sailors along with the rubbish that isn't. Most of that, as in everything, depends upon where in SA one has wandered.

However, for all the same reason that people like Obama and Romney don't post on the Huffington post and NY Times web sites, you're pretty unlikely to see anything other than a PR professional from US Sailing posting here. Given we agree that US Sailing hasn't a "good" PR professional, perhaps they're already here and simply doing a poor job of it.

BV

#88 DoRag

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 06:32 PM




I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.


Clean,

I recall an interview you did with Stan Honey which was really terrific. I don't know if you've interviewed John Craig, but I'd sure like to see a similar interview with him. I would love to hear what they think about these issues. Can you find them posting here? Probably not. Indeed, I think you'll find that your site doesn't actually serve the interests of a lot of sailors very well, even if you are correct about it being the largest sailing site. (which, personally, I think you are)

The best example I have is from the mother of a young sailor I know, one who I wrote about here on SA without using her name last year because she did something extraordinary. Her comment was: "I really don't want the name of my child on a soft-core porn site." Harsh, but a direct quote and generated because she had personally received the official SA greeting for all Newbies, had roamed around the site in the Forums for a time, and had outlawed your site for her kids until they are: "Old enough to understand why their father would like that sort of stuff."

While a lot of us find the language and photographs here in your Forums to be part of the fun, a lot of folks do not. I do NOT wish you to "tone it down", which is what this mother wanted. But, as a result, there will always be a segment of the population that will have nothing to do with assigning their name to a place where the unofficial greeting is "Fuck off Newbie and show us your girlfriend's tits!" from some anonymous troll.

BV

Stan actually has posted here a handful of times, and I think Craig used to but don't know his login name, though both read it religiously. None of which is the point, of course.

The point is that whatever the tone is here, sailboat racers have proved that it is the online place that has attracted and retained the largest percentage of them. I'd argue that's because sailors are attracted to less restrictive tone, open discourse with other sailors, humor, news, and entertainment, all with a sense of shared community and experiences.

I'd further argue that the 'soft-core' porn that occasionally makes its way into the forums is incidental to that, and that only people who don't regularly read the site have the impression that SA is a 'soft-core porn site' or 'nothing but negative' or 'the National Enquirer of sailing...'

Regardless, having so many constituents and potential constituents in one place and having the ability to address them is a huge gift for an organization, but only if it has the slightest clue how to use it. An effective and professional PR strategy from USS would of course include every possible communication avenue and a strategy to use each, and SA would be pretty high on that list. But that would take a professional and effective PR strategy - not something USS is known for!


Well said.

I would add that SAers were very impressive with their support of MSG as she goes through her trials. That support, financial and otherwise, from a bunch of "annonymous trolls" (as Faux Bro Beau continually rants), speaks very well for the sailing community and the comraderie of racers.

Hard to see that coming from the blue blazers at USSA.......

#89 jeff carver

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 07:25 PM

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.


i don't think its bizarre at all
not when you consider how silly the 2 points in the second sentence sound

#90 Delta Blues

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 07:29 PM





I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.



So much for the annual thing for the YC summit, no plans for it in 2012. And affordable? That word can't be used in the same sentence with U.$. $ailing!


Ah.... DB... did you attend the conference? Did they waste a lot of money putting it on?

If you did attend .... WHY do you think it should be a yearly event.... Seems to me... that YC 's move at glacial speeds and are extremely conservative (small c)... Every three years would probably give a YC enough time to make ANY changes they wanted to make based on a YC summit.

Is this just another DB spitball?


Why annual? I was just following up with what Clean wrote, which obviously you didn't read.

I just attended a charity this morning and the whole discussion was revenue (what else?). They want new revenue to supplement the weakening regular revenue. The discussion was the margins of profitability (actually "surplus" in not-for-profit terms). Wine Tasting, Golf Outing, etc. So, what was the surplus earned from the YC Summit? Obviously Jobson made calls, twisted a lot of arms and pulled in good speakers (who I am sure all paid their own way). Wasn't it something like $300 per head to attend, don't they say that they had 200 plus clubs in attendance? $60,000+ in revenue, and what were the expenses? Commonly hotels give the meeting rooms for free if enough people register at the hotel, so there was probably no expense there. Some AV equipment? Some staff airfare, meals and hotel rooms? Didn't some sponsorship coin get added to the revenue? I bet it was a good moneymaker.

No, I wouldn't waste my money on something that I have lived and breathed my whole life. I could have given any speach any of those guest speakers gave. Been there done that.

U.S. Sailing is supposed to be a charity, supposed to help the sport, but when they appear to be fleecing the clubs who provide the sport, it does irritate me. It doesn't seem to charitable to me. If the goal was to break even, I have no qualms. But with the numbers I've seen, they don't seem like break even numbers.

#91 Tcatman

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Posted 04 January 2012 - 10:11 PM






I'll ignore your invitation to Peter to nibble on your bits, as bizarre as that might be to watch, and point out that given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they?


That's an odd way to think of it when we've had the president of the US Sailing Team Alphagraphics (told you I'd use the full name, Dean...) posting here on numerous occasions, and he has told his compatriots at USS that it has been a useful tool and experience.

What is bizarre is the fact that USS/Jobson hasn't engaged this site more directly even with invitations to do so. Given the incontrovertible fact that there are more US racers here than anywhere else on the planet, what a waste of a free opportunity to directly engage more prospective members than any other avenue.

All that being said, with a few small exceptions, Jobson's tenure has definitely been less of a mess than Capron's, so there's that. The YC summit was a good thing, but only if it evolves into an affordable yearly thing. Haven't seen much else, but then again I don't spend much time at YCs like Gary.



So much for the annual thing for the YC summit, no plans for it in 2012. And affordable? That word can't be used in the same sentence with U.$. $ailing!


Ah.... DB... did you attend the conference? Did they waste a lot of money putting it on?

If you did attend .... WHY do you think it should be a yearly event.... Seems to me... that YC 's move at glacial speeds and are extremely conservative (small c)... Every three years would probably give a YC enough time to make ANY changes they wanted to make based on a YC summit.

Is this just another DB spitball?


Why annual? I was just following up with what Clean wrote, which obviously you didn't read.

I just attended a charity this morning and the whole discussion was revenue (what else?). They want new revenue to supplement the weakening regular revenue. The discussion was the margins of profitability (actually "surplus" in not-for-profit terms). Wine Tasting, Golf Outing, etc. So, what was the surplus earned from the YC Summit? Obviously Jobson made calls, twisted a lot of arms and pulled in good speakers (who I am sure all paid their own way). Wasn't it something like $300 per head to attend, don't they say that they had 200 plus clubs in attendance? $60,000+ in revenue, and what were the expenses? Commonly hotels give the meeting rooms for free if enough people register at the hotel, so there was probably no expense there. Some AV equipment? Some staff airfare, meals and hotel rooms? Didn't some sponsorship coin get added to the revenue? I bet it was a good moneymaker.

No, I wouldn't waste my money on something that I have lived and breathed my whole life. I could have given any speach any of those guest speakers gave. Been there done that.

U.S. Sailing is supposed to be a charity, supposed to help the sport, but when they appear to be fleecing the clubs who provide the sport, it does irritate me. It doesn't seem to charitable to me. If the goal was to break even, I have no qualms. But with the numbers I've seen, they don't seem like break even numbers.


I know Clean attended... he videotaped the thing...

You seemed to think it should be an annual event as well.. ... but have no idea if the participants thought it worth while...you know it's a waste of time AND... you could have presented any of the talks that you did not hear....

I got it... just a spitball! carry on! (sometimes you have useful things to say)

#92 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:20 AM

how silly the 2 points in the second sentence sound


Dispute them with some evidence or STFU.

Whether US Sailing officials post here or make some effort to get some front page space makes not one iota of difference to us. But it would to their membership numbers!

#93 Dawg Gonit

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:07 AM


It ain't about me..............how many times to I have to say this. Stand by for more.


Dawg, you are the representative, the face, of your own request.
You don't want to leave us with a bad taste in our mouths for disabled sailing, or disabled anything.

Consider your irritating banishment from that forum---you may have learned your diplomacy from the old Scot. Just sayin...


This will be my last post in this thread.

I know you do not know my history with USS and the USDST back to 1998 when I got hurt and jumped right into Paralympic/disabled sailing. here are the highlights of Bad decisions that I feel were only designed to help the East Coast and their sailors.

  • I was screwed by USS in 2001, when I should have been #1 on the Sonar team. USS decided to allow the disabled sonar sailors to use their Open (local) events to qualify. Rick Doeer never sailed the disabled events that I was told to do, to qualify. Rick was ranked higher because he and JR Duggan sailed in local events. I dropped out after that and almost quit sailing. That was USS's first decision that showed me that the East was more important than the West.
  • USS Should have pressured for a no vote on the Stupid SKUD rule to have one crew be a woman. I know it helped some but it really hurt many others and me not being able to sail with Nick and help the West Coast with an all West Coast Team. I still have not seen a growth in disabled women sailing. In fact I argue more men have been left out by this dumb rule.
  • The 2006 Pre Trials and the 2007 Trials should have been sailed in SD as they were planned along with the Olympic classes. This decision was for the East Coast Sailors and their logistics. Once again this hurt the West Coast Paralympic / Disabled Sailing Visibility. This was a USS whopper of a bad decision.
  • Back when NYYC and SPYC were upgrading their Sonar Fleets, there was talk that ST Francis and SDYC were in talks to join in a huge fleet purchase. Where was USS with a grant to help then. This would have been a big shot in the arm out west for Paralympic sailing.

USS has done far more to stunt Paralympic / Disabled Sailing on the west coast than it realizes. All the big events back east were borne off the back of Yacht Club Fleets. Now there are enough sailors and paralympic boats back east that fleets are bigger. You may not remember, but the Americas Regatta would have been nothing without the SPYC Sonar Fleet. This is what USS should be doing, offering grants to help build fleets.



PS: I had en email exchange with Urban at Challenged America and Maureen from USS about their conversation concerning the Grant. Their descriptions of the conversation are like night and day. Urban said the conversation was cut short and Maureen said Urban was not interested.

All that said, I find it hard to believe that you would have to give a decision about a grant after just one 5 min phone call. The grant went somewhere else.

I have to say Gary should look into this because it smells like rotten Chesapeake Oysters to me.

Bye

#94 jocal505

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 05:29 AM

(snip) Given the way people interact on this site it is extremely unlikely that anyone who ever holds the post of President of US Sailing will ever show up here. Why should they? It is nearly impossible to have a reasonable discussion and there are plenty of places where that person's time would be far better spent.
BV


Here's a reason, Beau:

I know you do not know my history with USS and the USDST back to 1998 when I got hurt and jumped right into Paralympic/disabled sailing. here are the highlights of Bad decisions that I feel were only designed to help the East Coast and their sailors.

  • I was screwed by USS in 2001, when I should have been #1 on the Sonar team. USS decided to allow the disabled sonar sailors to use their Open (local) events to qualify. Rick Doeer never sailed the disabled events that I was told to do, to qualify. Rick was ranked higher because he and JR Duggan sailed in local events. I dropped out after that and almost quit sailing. That was USS's first decision that showed me that the East was more important than the West.
  • USS Should have pressured for a no vote on the Stupid SKUD rule to have one crew be a woman. I know it helped some but it really hurt many others and me not being able to sail with Nick and help the West Coast with an all West Coast Team. I still have not seen a growth in disabled women sailing. In fact I argue more men have been left out by this dumb rule.
  • The 2006 Pre Trials and the 2007 Trials should have been sailed in SD as they were planned along with the Olympic classes. This decision was for the East Coast Sailors and their logistics. Once again this hurt the West Coast Paralympic / Disabled Sailing Visibility. This was a USS whopper of a bad decision.
  • Back when NYYC and SPYC were upgrading their Sonar Fleets, there was talk that ST Francis and SDYC were in talks to join in a huge fleet purchase. Where was USS with a grant to help then. This would have been a big shot in the arm out west for Paralympic sailing.
USS has done far more to stunt Paralympic / Disabled Sailing on the west coast than it realizes. All the big events back east were borne off the back of Yacht Club Fleets. Now there are enough sailors and paralympic boats back east that fleets are bigger. You may not remember, but the Americas Regatta would have been nothing without the SPYC Sonar Fleet. This is what USS should be doing, offering grants to help build fleets.

PS: I had en email exchange with Urban at Challenged America and Maureen from USS about their conversation concerning the Grant. Their descriptions of the conversation are like night and day. Urban said the conversation was cut short and Maureen said Urban was not interested.

All that said, I find it hard to believe that you would have to give a decision about a grant after just one 5 min phone call. The grant went somewhere else.

I have to say Gary should look into this because it smells like rotten Chesapeake Oysters to me.



#95 Phoenix

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 12:31 PM

Although it's almost an aside, the yacht clubs could be the greatest force for change in our sport. I certainly understand why a concerted effort would be made to try to get them on board to grow the sport. Because of Garys' most frequent contact with those clubs, I can understand why he would think they are pro growth. The sad truth is that in many cases they are pro growth as long as we do it our way. The focus has shifted from attracting competitors to preserving the status and structure of the organizing authority.

I give Gary a big bow for trying. However, the attempt was doomed.

#96 Bcam

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 02:41 PM

Although it's almost an aside, the yacht clubs could be the greatest force for change in our sport. I certainly understand why a concerted effort would be made to try to get them on board to grow the sport. Because of Garys' most frequent contact with those clubs, I can understand why he would think they are pro growth. The sad truth is that in many cases they are pro growth as long as we do it our way. The focus has shifted from attracting competitors to preserving the status and structure of the organizing authority.

I give Gary a big bow for trying. However, the attempt was doomed.


I guess you missed the effort to remove them from the structure at US Sailing. The new By-Laws made sure that any input from clubs and regional sailing groups became meaningless unless the BOD chooses to listen. There is no requirement that the BOD pays any attention to the efforts of clubs.

Regards,
Bruce

#97 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:42 PM

...snip...

Well said.

I would add that SAers were very impressive with their support of MSG as she goes through her trials. That support, financial and otherwise, from a bunch of "annonymous trolls" (as Faux Bro Beau continually rants), speaks very well for the sailing community and the comraderie of racers.

Hard to see that coming from the blue blazers at USSA.......


Rag,

Do you personally or professionally have any factual information about personal donations or support to charity coming from the senior folks at US Sailing or are you just blowing gas out your ass to make yourself feel better and make a point? If so, post it or STFU.

Of course, you can "investigate" the senior people at US Sailing and elsewhere because you know their names. You, however, can't be investigated, because you are hiding.

The efforts to help MSG are terrific and have nothing whatsoever to do with the point of this thread, but that sort of non-sequitor is ignored frequently by you when you're in the "blowing gas" mode. MSG is a terrific person and a lot of us have attempted to help her with support of all sorts. So exactly what has that to do with Gary, other than as a feeble attempt by you to insult these folks without a single fact to support your claim.

Get out from behind your shield of anonymity when you insult the generosity of others. If you don't, the term "coward" will continue to apply quite well, despite your frequent unverifyable posts implying personal valor on the field of battle and your own generocity.

BV

#98 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 03:53 PM

Although it's almost an aside, the yacht clubs could be the greatest force for change in our sport. I certainly understand why a concerted effort would be made to try to get them on board to grow the sport. Because of Garys' most frequent contact with those clubs, I can understand why he would think they are pro growth. The sad truth is that in many cases they are pro growth as long as we do it our way. The focus has shifted from attracting competitors to preserving the status and structure of the organizing authority.

I give Gary a big bow for trying. However, the attempt was doomed.


Phoenix,

I have observed that Yacht Clubs, if you also include community sailing organizations and other groups like them, are the folks causing change and improving things. As more of them collapse in the face of shrinking membership with the changing demographics they are adapting. There are all sorts of out-reach and community-sailing programs showing up that would have been impossible a decade ago. There has also been a major generational shift in the top dogs at these clubs over the last ten years as the Boomers have moved into positions of power in even the most conservative and hidebound clubs. Change is coming, but it's slow.

US Sailing isn't any part of this, which is sad because it could be. However, I seriously doubt that it would make much difference either way. The hard work of building up a new generation of sailors falls primarily to those who actually sail and who reach out to include new people in our sport. That's done on a dock someplace where someone offers to invest time and effort in helping a beginner learn to sail, gets them interested, and brings them along. It tends not to happen in large national organizations. Could US Sailing offer some help with this? Sure. Do they do much? Not enough, IMHO.

Gary has visited and worked with a lot more clubs than his predecessor, including the Summit which a number of the members of clubs I work with attended and really enjoyed. Could Gary get the power based in US Sailing moved back to the Clubs and out of the hands of the Board? Certainly not easily. The bylaws (as DB has explained quite well) make that sort of change slow and painful. But, it probably doesn't matter all that much. Part of the reason I gave Gary a "B" as a grade was precisely his attempt to recognize officially through US Sailing what is obviously the case in the world - Clubs are the center of gravity of our sport, not US Sailing.

Clubs will either evolve or die. Some of the better ones are evolving quite well, others are fading away. Evolution at work.

BV

#99 Phoenix

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:10 PM

I agree that community sailing centers and many virtual "paper clubs" are doing great things to build the sport. Further, the charity regattas are making a great effort to attract the boats that presently exist and don't normally compete. I'm becoming more convinced every day that those organizations are really the future of the sport.

#100 DoRag

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Posted 05 January 2012 - 04:14 PM


...snip...

Well said.

I would add that SAers were very impressive with their support of MSG as she goes through her trials. That support, financial and otherwise, from a bunch of "annonymous trolls" (as Faux Bro Beau continually rants), speaks very well for the sailing community and the comraderie of racers.

Hard to see that coming from the blue blazers at USSA.......


Rag,

Do you personally or professionally have any factual information about personal donations or support to charity coming from the senior folks at US Sailing or are you just blowing gas out your ass to make yourself feel better and make a point? If so, post it or STFU.

Of course, you can "investigate" the senior people at US Sailing and elsewhere because you know their names. You, however, can't be investigated, because you are hiding.

The efforts to help MSG are terrific and have nothing whatsoever to do with the point of this thread, but that sort of non-sequitor is ignored frequently by you when you're in the "blowing gas" mode. MSG is a terrific person and a lot of us have attempted to help her with support of all sorts. So exactly what has that to do with Gary, other than as a feeble attempt by you to insult these folks without a single fact to support your claim.

Get out from behind your shield of anonymity when you insult the generosity of others. If you don't, the term "coward" will continue to apply quite well, despite your frequent unverifyable posts implying personal valor on the field of battle and your own generocity.

BV


Ah yes, more of the pretentious, condesending drivel from the big mouth of a small person without the chops.

This is a racing site. And if you take the time to read the posting guidelines you would find that your pathetic, consistent mid fleet finishes in an amateur fleet do not qualify you to rant on anything.

You also violate the height restrictions as the SA Rules clearly state you need to be at least 5' 6" in order to post here. The ED in intited that qualification so as to avoid the rants of little people who have issues with their stature and tend to be overly aggresive and obnoxious. Like you.

As to academic qualifications, well, you know that attending a Cal State simply doesn't quite cut it. Nor does not engaging in an athletic endeavor in college - and no, fencing and sailing don't cut it, much like the bowling and knitting teams don't cut it. Perhaps this is why you fail to see the connection between my response to Clean's post and how MSG benefitted from the sailing community. Try harder, I know it's not easy for you.

And your comments regarding my military service mirror the NorCal attitude about serving one's country, as much as they underscore your total lack of understanding of what it means to actually serve in the front. And, no, I never implied valor - I simply say I served. At the front. Which I did. Valor is for those that didn't make it back - something you do not understand.

And last, when are you going to understand that perhaps 98% of SA posters chose to assume a name? Just like virtually all sites of this nature. The fact that you don't like that is irrelevent. Just as you life appears to have been. And if you don't like it, why don't you go someplace else?




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