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#1 Salazar

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 09:51 PM

Well, my hat is off to Sailing Magazine today.

As most (if not all of you) know the Maestro writes a regular column for Sailing Magazine, "Perry on Design". There are at least 469 of Bob's design reviews online at Sailing Magazine, going back to 1996 or so, available to anyone to read or print out or whatever.

They used to have a section of their website where you could order copies of older, pre 1996 issues of "Perry on Design" among other things. I looked and looked for it today but no luck.


My wife and I own a C&C 37XL, built in 1990, and I was aware that Bob had written a design review of the racing version of our boat, the 37R (in our case, identical hull and keel, different interior) and I was curious to see what Bob had to say about it back in February of 1989. So, having no luck online I called Sailing and they connected me with Sue who takes care of back issues. She took my information and phone number and said she'd look into it. Sue called back a bit later to say she had located copy of that issue (almost 23 years old) and is sending to me. I'm impressed.

#2 kimbottles

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 10:38 PM

Well, my hat is off to Sailing Magazine today.

As most (if not all of you) know the Maestro writes a regular column for Sailing Magazine, "Perry on Design". There are at least 469 of Bob's design reviews online at Sailing Magazine, going back to 1996 or so, available to anyone to read or print out or whatever.

They used to have a section of their website where you could order copies of older, pre 1996 issues of "Perry on Design" among other things. I looked and looked for it today but no luck.


My wife and I own a C&C 37XL, built in 1990, and I was aware that Bob had written a design review of the racing version of our boat, the 37R (in our case, identical hull and keel, different interior) and I was curious to see what Bob had to say about it back in February of 1989. So, having no luck online I called Sailing and they connected me with Sue who takes care of back issues. She took my information and phone number and said she'd look into it. Sue called back a bit later to say she had located copy of that issue (almost 23 years old) and is sending to me. I'm impressed.


If you can find them the bound copies of Bob's reviews are worth having. I think there are six issues of them. They are a great reference source.

Here is the link to Bob's reviews in the Sail Magazine archives: http://www.sailingma...Perry on Design

You can search using the "Filter" box at the top.






http://www.sailingma...Perry on Design

#3 Bob Perry

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:10 PM

Oh yeah, that's why I make the big bucks.

Do you know that I have written design reviews for SAILING longer than any other person has written reviews for any other yachting magazine?
So,,,I got that going for me. Which is good.

SAILING started me out at $60 a month. With inflation that should by now be about $8,423 a month.
Should be.

#4 Gatekeeper

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:41 PM

Holy crap...were you reviewing Nile river barges while the pyramids were being built??

#5 Amati

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:49 PM

Most of the design reviews are online. You do have to hunt though, sometimes The only way Amati shows up is knowing the month and year of the review. Or a very specific google.

#6 Salazar

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:20 AM

Most of the design reviews are online. You do have to hunt though, sometimes The only way Amati shows up is knowing the month and year of the review. Or a very specific google.

I have known the month and year of Bob's review of the C&C 37R for some time now but have never actually been able to find the review online. I have tried.

I do have Bob's "Yacht Design According to Perry: My Boats and What Shaped Them" so I already have a great (if somewhat biased) "review" of "Amati".

I'm taking kimb's advice and so have just ordered Bob's "Sailing Designs Volume Five".

That was the only one I found for sale this evening for a reasonable price. Amazon has a "Look Inside" of Volume 6 online so I was able to see the Design & Category Indexes. I now know there are a few boats I'd like to see reviews for in there but I'm not paying $112.97 for a copy this evening (sorry Bob). I'll see it for sale for a better price eventually.


#7 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 12:58 AM


Most of the design reviews are online. You do have to hunt though, sometimes The only way Amati shows up is knowing the month and year of the review. Or a very specific google.

I have known the month and year of Bob's review of the C&C 37R for some time now but have never actually been able to find the review online. I have tried.

I do have Bob's "Yacht Design According to Perry: My Boats and What Shaped Them" so I already have a great (if somewhat biased) "review" of "Amati".

I'm taking kimb's advice and so have just ordered Bob's "Sailing Designs Volume Five".

That was the only one I found for sale this evening for a reasonable price. Amazon has a "Look Inside" of Volume 6 online so I was able to see the Design & Category Indexes. I now know there are a few boats I'd like to see reviews for in there but I'm not paying $112.97 for a copy this evening (sorry Bob). I'll see it for sale for a better price eventually.


I have all six volumes....if anyone has a review they'd like, let me know an I scan a copy for you...

#8 Salazar

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 01:09 AM



Most of the design reviews are online. You do have to hunt though, sometimes The only way Amati shows up is knowing the month and year of the review. Or a very specific google.

I have known the month and year of Bob's review of the C&C 37R for some time now but have never actually been able to find the review online. I have tried.

I do have Bob's "Yacht Design According to Perry: My Boats and What Shaped Them" so I already have a great (if somewhat biased) "review" of "Amati".

I'm taking kimb's advice and so have just ordered Bob's "Sailing Designs Volume Five".

That was the only one I found for sale this evening for a reasonable price. Amazon has a "Look Inside" of Volume 6 online so I was able to see the Design & Category Indexes. I now know there are a few boats I'd like to see reviews for in there but I'm not paying $112.97 for a copy this evening (sorry Bob). I'll see it for sale for a better price eventually.


I have all six volumes....if anyone has a review they'd like, let me know an I scan a copy for you...

Sometime, when you're bored, scan the indexes and post them. Then we'll know which ones Bob published and are in which books. I think Bob has done over 1400 design reviews over the years.

#9 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 01:13 AM




Most of the design reviews are online. You do have to hunt though, sometimes The only way Amati shows up is knowing the month and year of the review. Or a very specific google.

I have known the month and year of Bob's review of the C&C 37R for some time now but have never actually been able to find the review online. I have tried.

I do have Bob's "Yacht Design According to Perry: My Boats and What Shaped Them" so I already have a great (if somewhat biased) "review" of "Amati".

I'm taking kimb's advice and so have just ordered Bob's "Sailing Designs Volume Five".

That was the only one I found for sale this evening for a reasonable price. Amazon has a "Look Inside" of Volume 6 online so I was able to see the Design & Category Indexes. I now know there are a few boats I'd like to see reviews for in there but I'm not paying $112.97 for a copy this evening (sorry Bob). I'll see it for sale for a better price eventually.


I have all six volumes....if anyone has a review they'd like, let me know an I scan a copy for you...

Sometime, when you're bored, scan the indexes and post them. Then we'll know which ones Bob published and are in which books. I think Bob has done over 1400 design reviews over the years.


Wilco! I'll try to remember to bring them into work tomorrow so I can use the big scanner/printer their as the early ones are large format and won't fit on my home one...

#10 Bob Perry

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 01:37 AM

You should read my review of the PINTA.
"Too much sheer spring!"

#11 Steam Flyer

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 03:55 AM

Holy crap...were you reviewing Nile river barges while the pyramids were being built??


You should read my review of the PINTA.
"Too much sheer spring!"


yeah, I was sceptical when you claimed woven fiber sails could some day be more effective than hides.

FB- Doug

#12 dolphinmaster

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:29 AM

Lit a little fuse in the J111 topic of the J-boat section. Mentioned that the FT10 finished 39 mins ahead of the 111 in the 22.5 mile Malibu race this weekend.

Keep your eyes open for fireworks.

#13 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:49 AM

Lit a little fuse in the J111 topic of the J-boat section. Mentioned that the FT10 finished 39 mins ahead of the 111 in the 22.5 mile Malibu race this weekend.

Keep your eyes open for fireworks.


This should be fun, but not all that surprising. Winter racing being the crapshoot it always is.

BV

#14 Bob Perry

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 02:54 PM

Dolphin:
Thanks for that. I'll check out the thread.

#15 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:54 PM

Sailing Designs Vol 1 Index:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 1.pdf   440.45K   108 downloads


Sailing Designs Vol 2 Index:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 2.pdf   469.94K   55 downloads

#16 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:55 PM

Sailing Designs Vol 3 pg 1:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 3-1.pdf   762.02K   55 downloads

#17 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:56 PM

Sailing Designs Vol 3 pg 2:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 3-2.pdf   494.53K   41 downloads

#18 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 04:58 PM

Sailing Designs Vol 4:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 4.pdf   966.06K   42 downloads

Sailing Designs Vol 5 pg 1:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 5-1.pdf   722.78K   25 downloads

#19 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:01 PM

Sailing Designs Vol 5 pg 2:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 5-2.pdf   546.76K   31 downloads

Sailing Designs Vol 6 pg 1:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 6-1.pdf   670.42K   37 downloads

Sailing Designs Vol 6 pg 2:

Attached File  Sailing Designs Vol 6-2.pdf   527.11K   38 downloads

#20 Salazar

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 05:55 PM

Crash! That's Great! There are over 800 reviews in there. Thank you! Posted Image

#21 Bob Perry

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 06:01 PM

Thanks Crash.

#22 crash

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 07:04 PM

No problem guys. I love those reviews...especially the older ones, when Bob was younger and less "mellow" then he is now:unsure: . Back then it was pretty easy to tell when he didn't like a design, now its much harder to tell if he doesn't like it, or just had something else he wanted to say. But they've been a great resource to me, and I love to sit down on a cold rainy night by the fire (usually with a good single malt) and read thru an "era" or two. Kind of a neat way to trace the recent history of yacht design. Not to hard to see and follow all the trends...

#23 kimbottles

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Posted 11 January 2012 - 11:27 PM

No problem guys. I love those reviews...especially the older ones, when Bob was younger and less "mellow" then he is now:unsure: . Back then it was pretty easy to tell when he didn't like a design, now its much harder to tell if he doesn't like it, or just had something else he wanted to say. But they've been a great resource to me, and I love to sit down on a cold rainy night by the fire (usually with a good single malt) and read thru an "era" or two. Kind of a neat way to trace the recent history of yacht design. Not to hard to see and follow all the trends...


YES! I keep them over by the fireplace for just that reason. Great stuff to just sit and cruise through......

#24 Cwinsor

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 01:46 AM

Crash, great contribution. Have downloaded them all. Any chance you could indicate what years each volume spans, or are they not organized that way?

#25 Salazar

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:25 AM

And now for your viewing pleasure, the complete index of Robert Perry Sailing Design Reviews, Volumes 1 through 6, sorted alphabetically, listing Volume & page. There are over 1000 reviews indexed there. A big thank you to Crash for providing the scanned indexes I whipped this up this from. And Thank God for OCR (OCD? Posted Image) that works. And don't forget, there are about 470 or so of these reviews available online over at Sailing Magazine - Perry on Design if you're looking for something to read.

You're welcome. Posted Image

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#26 Slick470

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:30 AM

And now for your viewing pleasure, the complete index of Robert Perry Sailing Design Reviews, Volumes 1 through 6, sorted alphabetically, listing Volume & page. There are over 1000 reviews indexed there. A big thank you to Crash for providing the scanned indexes I whipped this up this from. And Thank God for OCR that works.

You're welcome. Posted Image

I thought it was spelled OCD? :lol:

seriously, thanks for pulling that together, and thanks to Crash for sharing in the first place.

#27 Salazar

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:37 AM


And now for your viewing pleasure, the complete index of Robert Perry Sailing Design Reviews, Volumes 1 through 6, sorted alphabetically, listing Volume & page. There are over 1000 reviews indexed there. A big thank you to Crash for providing the scanned indexes I whipped this up this from. And Thank God for OCR that works.

You're welcome. Posted Image

I thought it was spelled OCD? :lol:

seriously, thanks for pulling that together, and thanks to Crash for sharing in the first place.

I think it is OCD sometimes...

#28 Bob Perry

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:44 AM

Glad you guys enjoy it. I never read my shit.
I certainly was sincere. Arogant even.
But now I'm not even sure how to spell arrogant.

I like "arrow gaunt" kind of an older English country manor type of spelling.
There I would be. I'd have some of those fancy layered clothes on. Of course I would have the tie du jour on. Tall boots ( size 15). I'd be sipping Sherry and staring off at my vast grounds,,, vacantly.
There would be no one around except for two servants in livery off to one side standing at attention, looking bored.
It would be a gentle, say 62 degree morning (F) mist hanging over my estate.
I'd be surrounded by my hounds. Noisy hounds.
They would be looking up at me adoringly because I had pork chops in my pockets.
I'd gesture, ever so slightly with my right hand.
My servant would spring to full alert.
" Yes maestro?"
"Could you bring me Bob Perry's latest reviews?"

#29 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:45 AM

Same here. My wife always says " you have a boat/we're building a boat, why are you RE-reading 15 year old boat reviews?" For an intelligent woman she sometimes asks dumb questions (love you honey, in case you read this).

And I agree -- Bob used to have a bit more piss and vinegar in his reviews of the truly awful or the simply banal designs. He was blunt. Sometimes very blunt.

We older guys remember a time when most reviewers & critics of things (movies, wine, boats) were more blunt. The wine critic Robert Parker would regularly give a $100/bottle, recently released, wine a scores of "40" (out of 100) and say (in print) that it would be a waste to spend money on it. He said once that a new french Chardonnay smelled liked cat urine and tasted like what he imagined cat urine would taste like if he had ever tried it. The estate and winemaker/producer allegedly were so angry that he got nasty hate mail about it for a long time. Or so the story goes. But Parker did not then, and does not now, accept any advertising, so for him being blunt should be easier. But he too has mellowed. No more 40's, no more references to urine.

I imagine Bob and his editors tone down reviews that might really offend the big ad-buyers. No one wants hate mail. But anyone who has been reading Bob for 10 years or more knows what he's really saying. We just need to read more carefully.







No problem guys. I love those reviews...especially the older ones, when Bob was younger and less "mellow" then he is now:unsure: . Back then it was pretty easy to tell when he didn't like a design, now its much harder to tell if he doesn't like it, or just had something else he wanted to say. But they've been a great resource to me, and I love to sit down on a cold rainy night by the fire (usually with a good single malt) and read thru an "era" or two. Kind of a neat way to trace the recent history of yacht design. Not to hard to see and follow all the trends...


YES! I keep them over by the fireplace for just that reason. Great stuff to just sit and cruise through......



#30 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:48 AM

Have you been spying on all of us Bob?

Glad you guys enjoy it. I never read my shit.
I certainly was sincere. Arogant even.
But now I'm not even sure how to spell arrogant.

I like "arrow gaunt" kind of an older English country manor type of spelling.
There I would be. I'd have some of those fancy layered clothes on. Of course I would have the tie du jour on. Tall boots ( size 15). I'd be sipping Sherry and staring off at my vast grounds,,, vacantly.
There would be no one around except for two servants in livery off to one side standing at attention, looking bored.
It would be a gentle, say 62 degree morning (F) mist hanging over my estate.
I'd be surrounded by my hounds. Noisy hounds.
They would be looking up at me adoringly because I had pork chops in my pockets.
I'd gesture, ever so slightly with my right hand.
My servant would spring to full alert.
" Yes maestro?"
"Could you bring me Bob Perry's latest reviews?"



#31 Bob Perry

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:51 AM

ND:
I am still full of piss and vinegar. But now I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Maybe a guy has worked hard and finally started his boatbuilding business.
He send his boat to SAILING.
I say, "Well obviously this guy is a fuckhead."
He goes home to a wife and two kids who are waiting for Papa to bring home the bacon.
I am not comfortable with being the guy to shit on another guy's dream.

#32 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 02:59 AM

I appreciate that. I didn't mean to be critical. It's just more fun reading a review of something when its bad and gets trashed.

But I was thinking, a big difference between your reviews and those of a wine reviewer, or restaurant or movie critic, or even a stereo review in an audiophile magazine, is that in all those cases people use those reviews to actually make a purchase. They rely on them in making buying decisions. People read your reviews for pleasure and because you write well. Its just a lot more money so no one is going to spend money on a new boat (or not) based on what they read in a boat review. Even yours. At least I don't so.

ND:
I am still full of piss and vinegar. But now I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Maybe a guy has worked hard and finally started his boatbuilding business.
He send his boat to SAILING.
I say, "Well obviously this guy is a fuckhead."
He goes home to a wife and two kids who are waiting for Papa to bring home the bacon.
I am not comfortable with being the guy to shit on another guy's dream.



#33 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:04 AM

Yes, pretty fucking elegant. Nice pipe too.

Hope those four will do as well. you're not making this easy, bob.

I forgot to mention that I would have high cheekbones, a prominent chin and my hair pulled back in a long baronial ponial tail.
Yep, I can just see me now.

Pretty fucking elegant.

Masterpiece Theatre here I come.

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#34 Bob Perry

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:10 AM

ND:
Ahhh, the stable boys
I thought they were a secret.

#35 Nessun Dorma

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:18 AM

No secrets Maestro, and remember, the boys need fresh air and plenty of rigorousness exercise.

Since your weight loss, I think we'll dub thee Bob of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Tulalip, a descendant of John of Gaunt, the 1st Duke of Lancaster. That's decent lineage.

ND:
Ahhh, the stable boys
I thought they were a secret.



#36 Ishmael

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 03:19 AM

ND:
Ahhh, the stable boys
I thought they were a secret.


Well, it's certainly a secret that they are boys. Those are some moobs.

#37 Jose Carumba

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:26 AM

Now we know where to get Grey Poupon.

#38 Ishmael

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 04:55 AM

Now we know where to get Grey Poupon.


Well, we certainly know where to get Attitude.

Edit to include: I mean that in the nicest possible way. ;)

Here's a good role model.

Posted Image

#39 PNW Matt B

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Posted 12 January 2012 - 05:34 AM

Budweiser?

Tecate?

I think I might cry.

You know why Budweiser puts horses in all their ads? Because they like to show off the production facilities.

#40 Salazar

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:20 AM

As a follow up to this thread, my copy of the February 1989 Sailing Magazine arrived a while back and in it was the review I was looking for. This was a 23 year old review so it was from the early Bob period when Bob was more likely to speak his mind in plain words. To quote ND:

" Bob used to have a bit more piss and vinegar in his reviews of the truly awful or the simply banal designs. He was blunt. Sometimes very blunt. "

I read the review and I liked it, it seemed like Bob liked the boat at the time, it was a good review. I thought it was favourable enough I scanned the review and sent a pdf off to the boats' designer, Robert Ball. His immediate response was "Wow... Great to see... " Later he emailed to ask how I got hold of the review and I gave him the details. It turned out Sailing had another back issue so I arranged to have it sent to him.

Rob tells me the magazine arrived and his wife is having the review framed and is putting it up on the wall at home. I told him she has good taste.


#41 Bob Perry

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:53 AM

What can I say?
When I'm good, I'm very, very good.

But usually I'm bad.

#42 crash

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:05 AM

What can I say?
When I'm good, I'm very, very good.

But usually I'm bad.


Actually, you might be at your best when you bad Bob...and I mean that as a compliment.

#43 Bob Perry

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:38 AM

Crash:
I like that.
Could you please explain it to my wife.

#44 kdh

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:00 AM

This thread is very funny. ND, 1000 posts. 10 raised to the 3rd power.

#45 Amati

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:16 AM

Same here. My wife always says " you have a boat/we're building a boat, why are you RE-reading 15 year old boat reviews?" For an intelligent woman she sometimes asks dumb questions (love you honey, in case you read this).

And I agree -- Bob used to have a bit more piss and vinegar in his reviews of the truly awful or the simply banal designs. He was blunt. Sometimes very blunt.

We older guys remember a time when most reviewers & critics of things (movies, wine, boats) were more blunt. The wine critic Robert Parker would regularly give a $100/bottle, recently released, wine a scores of "40" (out of 100) and say (in print) that it would be a waste to spend money on it. He said once that a new french Chardonnay smelled liked cat urine and tasted like what he imagined cat urine would taste like if he had ever tried it. The estate and winemaker/producer allegedly were so angry that he got nasty hate mail about it for a long time. Or so the story goes. But Parker did not then, and does not now, accept any advertising, so for him being blunt should be easier. But he too has mellowed. No more 40's, no more references to urine.

I imagine Bob and his editors tone down reviews that might really offend the big ad-buyers. No one wants hate mail. But anyone who has been reading Bob for 10 years or more knows what he's really saying. We just need to read more carefully.








No problem guys. I love those reviews...especially the older ones, when Bob was younger and less "mellow" then he is now:unsure: . Back then it was pretty easy to tell when he didn't like a design, now its much harder to tell if he doesn't like it, or just had something else he wanted to say. But they've been a great resource to me, and I love to sit down on a cold rainy night by the fire (usually with a good single malt) and read thru an "era" or two. Kind of a neat way to trace the recent history of yacht design. Not to hard to see and follow all the trends...


YES! I keep them over by the fireplace for just that reason. Great stuff to just sit and cruise through......


I did the same thing. All BP on YD were well thumbed and marked with small post its. It seemed necessary at the time. Except for spasms lasting a few days it subsides. Curious.

#46 crash

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:43 PM

Crash:
I like that.
Could you please explain it to my wife.


Shit Bob, if I could figure out how to do that I'd be one rich son of a bitch now wouldn't I?



Edit: What I mean is if I were to try, I'd likely get you in more trouble than you are already in!!!

#47 Amati

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:30 PM

Crash:
I like that.
Could you please explain it to my wife.



Uh, Bob, she knows it.

Most wives do.

:P

#48 2slow

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:48 PM

It took me a while to get all 6. I think Volume 3 was the bitch to find.


Amazon has a bunch of Volume 5's used for sale starting at 18 bucks; http://www.amazon.co...0184452&sr=1-36

no idea why volume 6 is so expensive; http://www.amazon.co.../ref=pd_sim_b_2

this is volume 2, only one for sale, someone should snap it up at 35 bucks; http://www.amazon.co...0184676&sr=1-39


Volume one, three from 30 bucks; http://www.amazon.co...0184768&sr=1-40




Bob if you ever want to make a little extra cash maybe you could get Sailing to publish these 6 books as a big one volume set. It would be a pretty damn good reference book for lots of sailors

#49 jackdaw

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

I appreciate that. I didn't mean to be critical. It's just more fun reading a review of something when its bad and gets trashed.

But I was thinking, a big difference between your reviews and those of a wine reviewer, or restaurant or movie critic, or even a stereo review in an audiophile magazine, is that in all those cases people use those reviews to actually make a purchase. They rely on them in making buying decisions. People read your reviews for pleasure and because you write well. Its just a lot more money so no one is going to spend money on a new boat (or not) based on what they read in a boat review. Even yours. At least I don't so.


ND:
I am still full of piss and vinegar. But now I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Maybe a guy has worked hard and finally started his boatbuilding business.
He send his boat to SAILING.
I say, "Well obviously this guy is a fuckhead."
He goes home to a wife and two kids who are waiting for Papa to bring home the bacon.
I am not comfortable with being the guy to shit on another guy's dream.


And sometimes it can have far reaching, funny, and mildly disturbing consequences. A total loon named MIGHETTO (yes HIM) used Bob's review of the MacGregor 26 as part of the foundation of his epic tome on the greatness of that boats design. Its a funny if disturbing read. Kind of a 'Mein Kampf' of sailing.

http://www.eskimo.com/~mighetto/p04.htm

#50 hobot

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:59 PM

Get the extinguishers out, someones playing with matches.

#51 trenace

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Posted 26 February 2012 - 09:24 PM

And sometimes it can have far reaching, funny, and mildly disturbing consequences. A total loon named MIGHETTO (yes HIM) used Bob's review of the MacGregor 26 as part of the foundation of his epic tome on the greatness of that boats design.


So what did Bob think of the MacGregor's sheerline? (The link to the review does not work.)

Insouciant, yet elegantly noncommittal?

Also, I learned on said loon's site that a good sound system is needed to keep marine mammals from ramming you. I think he means ramming your boat. I had not known that. Good safety tip.

I'm anxiously awaiting the MacGregor 26 trimaran he writes about.

#52 Cavelamb

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:11 AM

ND:
I am still full of piss and vinegar. But now I don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Maybe a guy has worked hard and finally started his boatbuilding business.
He send his boat to SAILING.
I say, "Well obviously this guy is a fuckhead."
He goes home to a wife and two kids who are waiting for Papa to bring home the bacon.
I am not comfortable with being the guy to shit on another guy's dream.


So I go out and spend $6.99 plus tax -hard cold cash no less - to read the review.

"This is a handsome boat. The designers make good use of multiple boot stripes to hide the high freeboard."
and prior...
"The topsides look quite slab to me".



And prior to that...
There is no need to add flare for form stability when you have 11,332 pounds of lead in a bulb
and draft options of 9' 10" and 8' 8"".

I guess the 8' 8" truly is the shoal keel.


As for the Hallberg-Rassy

Of course the 421 is a cruising boat..."

Draft is 6'7" ..."I don't see anything wrong with that. It Just shows dramatically the change in the accepted shape of cruising keels".


Concluding...
"It's pretty hard to fault a design like this".




The only reason I don't scream, "SLUT!" is the closing paragraph of the S&S 30 (Babe) review.

#53 Cavelamb

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:25 PM

Ok, all foolishness aside, Bob. :rolleyes:

How about an article about how owner's expectations have changed over the last 20, 40, 60, 80, even 100 years?

I can only look back to the 70s myself, that being when I first started sailing.
Catalina (just as a base measurement for the industry) has started building the 22, 25, 27, and 30.
While people may turn up their noses at such paltry offerings today, back then this was hot shit!
The boats offered were small, simple, just the basics. And invariably had horrid plaid fabrics and wood grained formica.
A lot of time and effort went into upgrading equipment. Usually simple enough to be DIY stuff.

But the boats of that time were affordable, and, at that time, even could be considered as status symbols.

So, skipping forward to today...

Attitudes have changed so slowly over so many years that it's hard to pin down when the paradigm shifted.
But it has.

Forty to fifty feet is what the magazines cover. A zillion bucks in systems.
Electronics enough that a small reactor should be offered as an option.

But I'm curious. Do people get more satisfaction from their mega-yachts today than we did back then?

Do they even sail as much as we did back then?
Do they even have enough spare (read non-earning) time to go out as often?)

Or is it all just for show? Status? Rank among the 1%?

#54 Bob Perry

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

Cave:
I knew you were kidding. And I value your ability to read between the lines of my reviews.

Back in the old office days, when I was feeling a bit perky, I'd answer the phone "Spreadwider Yacht Designs". I did.
Once I answered it "Gary Mull" and it was Gary Mull calling.
I found out that you could get anybody, ANYBODY, in the yacht business on the phone if you just told the receptionist it was Olin Stephens calling.

I have about run out of ideas for GOB. It's not like I can just dream up a new article subject every two months. I think I have said what I feel I need to say already.
I will read over, again, your suggestion. "I think it's a very fine one but I don't know if there is an article in there." Paraphrasing my favorite movie.

Just dusted Spike's room and rearranged his cell phone and glasses on the dresser. I put his socks away. He was the last to wear them and I like them out but I fear they will get dusty and crusty.
What's a Dad to do?

#55 crash

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

Ok, all foolishness aside, Bob. :rolleyes:

How about an article about how owner's expectations have changed over the last 20, 40, 60, 80, even 100 years?

I can only look back to the 70s myself, that being when I first started sailing.
Catalina (just as a base measurement for the industry) has started building the 22, 25, 27, and 30.
While people may turn up their noses at such paltry offerings today, back then this was hot shit!
The boats offered were small, simple, just the basics. And invariably had horrid plaid fabrics and wood grained formica.
A lot of time and effort went into upgrading equipment. Usually simple enough to be DIY stuff.

But the boats of that time were affordable, and, at that time, even could be considered as status symbols.

So, skipping forward to today...

Attitudes have changed so slowly over so many years that it's hard to pin down when the paradigm shifted.
But it has.

Forty to fifty feet is what the magazines cover. A zillion bucks in systems.
Electronics enough that a small reactor should be offered as an option.

But I'm curious. Do people get more satisfaction from their mega-yachts today than we did back then?

Do they even sail as much as we did back then?
Do they even have enough spare (read non-earning) time to go out as often?)

Or is it all just for show? Status? Rank among the 1%?



A number of things have changed. 1st is the cost of labor. Building boats is a labor intensive process. Smaller boats have more "labor per foot" then big boats, so they seem to cost more today...100k for a CatBenHun 30 footer, but only 150k for a 35 footer that looks (and is) so much bigger inside. 2nd. Sailing has gone from being an "adventure" to being a "lifestyle". With lifestyle comes appointments to make it seem like you are living the good life. So radar, autopilot, stove, oven, shower, AC, roller furling, etc, etc, etc. You wouldn't want to actually have to work or sweat (or be freezing, wet and miserable) would you? 3rd. The explosion of organized kids activeities, and our proclivity to enroll our kids in all of them mean we don't actually have alot of time to spend on our boats. So we don't want them to take up any of our time. Or we want to use them as our "waterfront weekend home" while taking the kids to soccer, fieldhockey, horseback riding etc....

I

#56 jackdaw

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:41 PM

Just dusted Spike's room and rearranged his cell phone and glasses on the dresser. I put his socks away. He was the last to wear them and I like them out but I fear they will get dusty and crusty.
What's a Dad to do?


Bob, my heart aches when I read stuff like that about Spike. As a father I can honestly say I have no idea what you have and are going through. All I can think to say is stay strong, lean on friends, and know that everyone here thinks about you and Spike every single day.

#57 Steam Flyer

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:43 PM


Ok, all foolishness aside, Bob. :rolleyes:

How about an article about how owner's expectations have changed over the last 20, 40, 60, 80, even 100 years?

I can only look back to the 70s myself, that being when I first started sailing.
Catalina (just as a base measurement for the industry) has started building the 22, 25, 27, and 30.
While people may turn up their noses at such paltry offerings today, back then this was hot shit!
The boats offered were small, simple, just the basics. And invariably had horrid plaid fabrics and wood grained formica.

... ...



A number of things have changed. 1st is the cost of labor. Building boats is a labor intensive process. Smaller boats have more "labor per foot" then big boats, so they seem to cost more today...100k for a CatBenHun 30 footer, but only 150k for a 35 footer that looks (and is) so much bigger inside. 2nd. Sailing has gone from being an "adventure" to being a "lifestyle". With lifestyle comes appointments to make it seem like you are living the good life. So radar, autopilot, stove, oven, shower, AC, roller furling, etc, etc, etc. You wouldn't want to actually have to work or sweat (or be freezing, wet and miserable) would you? 3rd. The explosion of organized kids activeities, and our proclivity to enroll our kids in all of them mean we don't actually have alot of time to spend on our boats. So we don't want them to take up any of our time. Or we want to use them as our "waterfront weekend home" while taking the kids to soccer, fieldhockey, horseback riding etc....

I


Agreed, except that sailboats and by extension "sailing" was always marketed as a lifestyle. If you look at ads & brochures, you see rich-looking guys with glamorous women & other expensive toys... the one that makes me laugh is an old ad for a Santana 23 being towed by a Corvette.

A couple of other things have fed into this trend, the two main ones being the explosion of consumer credit/debt and the incredible cheapness of oil; but these two tread rather too closely into politics.

But people tend to work longer hours now, thus spending less time in family activities, and also a large number of no-skill-required fun activities to spend limited recreational time. There is a lot more competition for our leasure hours, and sailing requires a large investment in learning how before you can really enjoy enjoy it.

Do people enjoy it more nowadays? I'd say, sure! We're safer, warmer & dryer due to better designed boats & gear, we have better gadgets to play with while sailing, the boats are faster & more reliable & require less maintenance. What's not to enjoy?
B)

FB- Doug

#58 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:10 PM

On the "what's happened to sailing" topic.... (warning - rant coming)

As a country we've become fatter, softer and lazier. In my opinion.

Fatter - that's easy to document. I was struck by it in a powerful way while reviewing pictures that the Smithsonian just release from the '40s. They were from color slides and the Denver Post was good enough to put them on-line. There were lots of pictures of kids, lots. Not one of them was fat, hell not one of them was even chubby. I just sat staring at it and thinking about what I see out my window, and in Santa Cruz most folks are bit more trim that elsewhere in our country.

Softer - no doubt about that. Along with fatter, try taking a boy scout troop on a 50 mile hike. The criteria for the Scouts hasn't changed much until the last 15 years. Now, the hikes are all getting shorter and the slopes flatter. As a kid we went from Tuolumne Meadows to Cathedral Lake and back in a day. Now, that's a three or four day trip. As a kid we slept on the ground in a cotton/flannel Army surplus bag, now it's down filled and atop an air mattress. The list goes on and on. This same softness creeps into what folks want sailing. Flush decked boats gave way to boats with spray dodgers and now to pilot houses. Look at a NY-32 or a California-32. Those were racer/cruisers of the '30s and '40. The cabin top is 8" above the deck. No place to hide. Yep, we're softer.

Lazier - it is just sooooo much easier to push a button and have the mainsail go up, the jib come in, the anchor hoisted, the list is endless. Yes, it's nice to have a pump and wash down hose, but is it REALLY that hard to use a bucket? My all time favorite is the 24-hour Fitness gym in Orange County CA where there is an escalator (!!) to take you up half a flight of stairs to get into the gym. Then, I suppose, you get on the stair master to "work out" with your "personal trainer". A couple of years ago I lived on the 10th floor of an apartment building in San Francisco and never used the elevator - people thought I was crazy! But I certainly didn't need to go climb on a stair master to get my thighs in shape. Now I live in a 3 story house and people tell me I must be in "good shape" going up and down all those stairs. SERIOUSLY??!!!???

So, sailing as we knew it when growing up suffers because the buyer of boats have become fatter, softer and much more lazy.

I'll get of my old-guy soap-box now.

BV

Grumble grumble grumble grumble....

#59 jackdaw

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:28 PM

On the "what's happened to sailing" topic.... (warning - rant coming)



Softer - no doubt about that. Along with fatter, try taking a boy scout troop on a 50 mile hike. The criteria for the Scouts hasn't changed much until the last 15 years. Now, the hikes are all getting shorter and the slopes flatter. As a kid we went from Tuolumne Meadows to Cathedral Lake and back in a day. Now, that's a three or four day trip. As a kid we slept on the ground in a cotton/flannel Army surplus bag, now it's down filled and atop an air mattress. The list goes on and on. This same softness creeps into what folks want sailing. Flush decked boats gave way to boats with spray dodgers and now to pilot houses. Look at a NY-32 or a California-32. Those were racer/cruisers of the '30s and '40. The cabin top is 8" above the deck. No place to hide. Yep, we're softer.


Beau you hit a nerve with me on this one. When I was in scouts every year we did a 50 mile afoot/afloat trip to Isle Royale NP, in the middle of Lake Superior, We'd canoe/portage half way, and hike the rest with full loads. It was grueling, and a blast. Having the patch was a badge of honor. Now I see the local BSA troop BIKES for 40 with a sag wagon and day hikes for 10. Christ.

#60 Cavelamb

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:12 PM

Cave:
I knew you were kidding. And I value your ability to read between the lines of my reviews.

Back in the old office days, when I was feeling a bit perky, I'd answer the phone "Spreadwider Yacht Designs". I did.
Once I answered it "Gary Mull" and it was Gary Mull calling.
I found out that you could get anybody, ANYBODY, in the yacht business on the phone if you just told the receptionist it was Olin Stephens calling.

I have about run out of ideas for GOB. It's not like I can just dream up a new article subject every two months. I think I have said what I feel I need to say already.
I will read over, again, your suggestion. "I think it's a very fine one but I don't know if there is an article in there." Paraphrasing my favorite movie.

Just dusted Spike's room and rearranged his cell phone and glasses on the dresser. I put his socks away. He was the last to wear them and I like them out but I fear they will get dusty and crusty.
What's a Dad to do?



Yeah. even if you wrote it, who would dare publish it???
Advertising dollars would be at risk!
That dog don't hunt.



About Spike....
My heart goes out to you and your family.
I think I speak for all of us here in that.
It's so hard to deal with, and impossible to let go.

Just know that you have all of our love and respect.

#61 Cavelamb

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:18 PM

Cave:
I knew you were kidding. And I value your ability to read between the lines of my reviews.

Back in the old office days, when I was feeling a bit perky, I'd answer the phone "Spreadwider Yacht Designs". I did.
Once I answered it "Gary Mull" and it was Gary Mull calling.
I found out that you could get anybody, ANYBODY, in the yacht business on the phone if you just told the receptionist it was Olin Stephens calling.



I think it was in Atlantic High that Bill Buckley made a similar observation.

He said that no matter how many layers of secretaries there were, you
could always reach the unreachable titans of industry by saying you were
calling from the boatyard about their yacht.

#62 kdh

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:39 PM

Yes, it's nice to have a pump and wash down hose, but is it REALLY that hard to use a bucket?

My wash-down hose on the boat is fresh water.Posted Image

#63 Bob Perry

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:45 PM

Cave:
You got that right or Buckley did.

"I don't really need to speak to Mr. Big. But I'm calling from the boatyard. Would you ask him if his boat had a bootstripe?"

#64 SemiSalt

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:57 PM

I have about run out of ideas for GOB.


Have you ever written about your experiences on the water?

About places that boat owners have called you from?

About cruising boats that won races, and race boats that went cruising?

About expensive gear that failed and cheap gear that worked out fine?

Now that you've written about how racing rules affect boat design, maybe something about "cruising rules", i.e. having to cope with what non-designers think a boat should look like.

Or write a song, and print it.

#65 jackdaw

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:08 PM

Cave:
You got that right or Buckley did.

"I don't really need to speak to Mr. Big. But I'm calling from the boatyard. Would you ask him if his boat had a bootstripe?"


It for sure made a lasting impression on Mr Buckley. He had just gotten such a call from 'the yard' informing him that the Panic had just sunk in her slip.

#66 Bob Perry

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:17 PM

Jack:
When my half tonner CHINOOK was hauled out I got a call from the yard. They had launched the boat earlier and they asked if the boat had a bootstripe. I said yes it had two black stripes. 'Well, not now." was their reply. They hauled the boat back out and found the speedo transducer was not reinstalled so my boat was actually sinking at their dock. No harm done and a lesson learned.

#67 SemiSalt

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 11:45 PM

I said yes it had two black stripes. 'Well, not now." was their reply.


Back in the '70s when I kept a boat in Noank, I was rowing back to the dinghy and noticed that one boat didn't look quite right. After peering at it for a while, I picked out the boottop about 5" below the surface. It was weekend evening, and there was just one guy on duty, and I told him. He didn't believe me, but went to check in a somewhat leisurely fashion. Then he came tearing back to get a pump.

The boat had been launched earlier in the day.

#68 tigger12

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:42 AM

I like "arrow gaunt" kind of an older English country manor type of spelling.
There I would be. I'd have some of those fancy layered clothes on. Of course I would have the tie du jour on. Tall boots ( size 15). I'd be sipping Sherry and staring off at my vast grounds,,, vacantly.
There would be no one around except for two servants in livery off to one side standing at attention, looking bored.
It would be a gentle, say 62 degree morning (F) mist hanging over my estate.
I'd be surrounded by my hounds. Noisy hounds.
They would be looking up at me adoringly because I had pork chops in my pockets.
I'd gesture, ever so slightly with my right hand.
My servant would spring to full alert.
" Yes maestro?"
"Could you bring me Bob Perry's latest reviews?"


Alas, before the review arrives your daughter enters the sitting room. She has just escorted the Vicar on a tour of the Rose Garden where he has stabbed himself on a thorn.

She asks of him, "How's your prick?", to which he responds, "Throbbing"...whereupon you spill your sherry into the urn containing the ashes of the 4th Baron of Herefordshire.

#69 Tucky

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 02:11 PM

Cave:
You got that right or Buckley did.

"I don't really need to speak to Mr. Big. But I'm calling from the boatyard. Would you ask him if his boat had a bootstripe?"


+1 from a lot of personal experience. I used to sail with a proper Maine tycoon, first on an 8 meter and then on a big S&S yawl. He liked to sail with friends and had no paid crew so we all worked/delivered the boat and he would step on when he could. Someone taught me to just mention the boat name when I called. The receptionist and his personal secretary knew the standard. He was in the oil delivery business. If he didn't take my call I would turn on CNN to see what hell was breaking loose. It always was.

#70 Beau.Vrolyk

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 04:50 PM

Bob,

I would REALLY like you to write an article on the characteristics of a great boat without any influence of a rating system. Having lived through a few transitions when a few designers just "went for it" and toss the rule book out the window, I discovered that really amazing boats were created.

So, no Box Rule, no Chains, no Draft Restrictions, no Nothing - what would you build?? To make this somewhat reasonable, perhaps a $$ limit or a LOA (but that causes all sorts of weird things like short fat deep boats). You call it - you're the yacht designer. You can choose the "purpose" but I'd suggest a mix of 50% cruising, 30% racing against friends, and 20% dock side use.

What would you build as the best "sailing boat" (meaning one that sails well) if the rules be damned and cost wasn't limited a lot??

BV

#71 kimbottles

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:09 PM

Bob,

I would REALLY like you to write an article on the characteristics of a great boat without any influence of a rating system. Having lived through a few transitions when a few designers just "went for it" and toss the rule book out the window, I discovered that really amazing boats were created.

So, no Box Rule, no Chains, no Draft Restrictions, no Nothing - what would you build?? To make this somewhat reasonable, perhaps a $ limit or a LOA (but that causes all sorts of weird things like short fat deep boats). You call it - you're the yacht designer. You can choose the "purpose" but I'd suggest a mix of 50% cruising, 30% racing against friends, and 20% dock side use.

What would you build as the best "sailing boat" (meaning one that sails well) if the rules be damned and cost wasn't limited a lot??

BV


Beau, that is how I approached the Sliver project. I told Bob I wanted a 60ish foot double-ended day sailor for the pure pleasure of sailing, and screw the rating rules. Kim

#72 SailAR

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:10 PM

I would think you still need to put a parameter around where and how the boat is sailed. Light air, heavy air, Pac ocean swells, inland chop. All yield different "great sailing" boats.

#73 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 05:28 PM

Beau:
That's a good idea.
I kind of think, for me at least and apparently Kim SLIVER might be that boat. But I could try to come up with something a bit more mainstream. 62' LOA is a lot of moorage to pay. But Kim owns the dock.

#74 Salazar

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:07 PM

Bob,

I would REALLY like you to write an article on the characteristics of a great boat without any influence of a rating system. Having lived through a few transitions when a few designers just "went for it" and toss the rule book out the window, I discovered that really amazing boats were created.

So, no Box Rule, no Chains, no Draft Restrictions, no Nothing - what would you build?? To make this somewhat reasonable, perhaps a $ limit or a LOA (but that causes all sorts of weird things like short fat deep boats). You call it - you're the yacht designer. You can choose the "purpose" but I'd suggest a mix of 50% cruising, 30% racing against friends, and 20% dock side use.

What would you build as the best "sailing boat" (meaning one that sails well) if the rules be damned and cost wasn't limited a lot??

BV

Instead of limiting the LOA or some other arbitrary restriction how about saying when in cruising mode it should have a sail plan and systems that would be manageable by a reasonably fit couple both coastal and blue water (think offshore to Bermuda then on to the Caribbean or the Med for the winter), so no heavy reliance on things that if they go bad would be very serious trouble (no in-mast furling, no absolute need for motorized winches, etc.)?

Does that fit what what you have in mind BV?

#75 Cavelamb

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:14 PM


Bob,

I would REALLY like you to write an article on the characteristics of a great boat without any influence of a rating system. Having lived through a few transitions when a few designers just "went for it" and toss the rule book out the window, I discovered that really amazing boats were created.

So, no Box Rule, no Chains, no Draft Restrictions, no Nothing - what would you build?? To make this somewhat reasonable, perhaps a $ limit or a LOA (but that causes all sorts of weird things like short fat deep boats). You call it - you're the yacht designer. You can choose the "purpose" but I'd suggest a mix of 50% cruising, 30% racing against friends, and 20% dock side use.

What would you build as the best "sailing boat" (meaning one that sails well) if the rules be damned and cost wasn't limited a lot??

BV

Instead of limiting the LOA or some other arbitrary restriction how about saying when in cruising mode it should have a sail plan and systems that would be manageable by a reasonably fit couple both coastal and blue water (think offshore to Bermuda then on to the Caribbean or the Med for the winter), so no heavy reliance on things that if they go bad would be very serious trouble (no in-mast furling, no absolute need for motorized winches, etc.)?

Does that fit what what you have in mind BV?



Specifying that it's a cruising boat means a lot of displacement...
8 or 9 thousand pounds per person seems enough, but then you have a large boat.
You would wind up with Spray?
Maybe a little smoother, but still a stiff, weatherly, self tending ship.

And taking the $$ out of the specs? Is that wise?

#76 Salazar

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:18 PM



Bob,

I would REALLY like you to write an article on the characteristics of a great boat without any influence of a rating system. Having lived through a few transitions when a few designers just "went for it" and toss the rule book out the window, I discovered that really amazing boats were created.

So, no Box Rule, no Chains, no Draft Restrictions, no Nothing - what would you build?? To make this somewhat reasonable, perhaps a $ limit or a LOA (but that causes all sorts of weird things like short fat deep boats). You call it - you're the yacht designer. You can choose the "purpose" but I'd suggest a mix of 50% cruising, 30% racing against friends, and 20% dock side use.

What would you build as the best "sailing boat" (meaning one that sails well) if the rules be damned and cost wasn't limited a lot??

BV

Instead of limiting the LOA or some other arbitrary restriction how about saying when in cruising mode it should have a sail plan and systems that would be manageable by a reasonably fit couple both coastal and blue water (think offshore to Bermuda then on to the Caribbean or the Med for the winter), so no heavy reliance on things that if they go bad would be very serious trouble (no in-mast furling, no absolute need for motorized winches, etc.)?

Does that fit what what you have in mind BV?


Specifying that it's a cruising boat means a lot of displacement...
8 or 9 thousand pounds per person seems enough, but then you have a large boat.
You would wind up with Spray?
Maybe a little smoother, but still a stiff, weatherly, self tending ship.

And taking the $ out of the specs? Is that wise?

I didn't intend to change Beau initial usage %. Still "a mix of 50% cruising, 30% racing against friends, and 20% dock side use. "

Also "and cost wasn't limited a lot?? "

You can never take the $ out completely as it will never be built if they aren't considered in the design to some degree.

#77 Ishmael

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:28 PM

Sounds like we're sneaking up on the CA 36, or the larger sister that was proposed but never designed.

#78 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:30 PM

I would interpret Beau's percentages as "Primarily for cruising with sufficient performance for racing at the club level while providing a suitable platform for dockside entertaining."

Basically, cruising with a nod to performance and luxury. I'd think you'd have to define "cruising" as to coastal and voyaging temperate latitudes or high latitudes. Different requirements between the three.

#79 Bob Perry

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 06:32 PM

Cave:
If specifying it as a "cruising boat" means a lot of displacement then the Valiant 40 would never have worked. The old V-40 was considered by many to be too light to be a true cruising boat. I guess I showed them.
I have done several cruising boats that had D/L's under 125 and they are great boats. WHITE EAGLE now WILD HORSES has a D/L of 92 and it's a live aboard boat.

Maybe Ish is right. Perhaps the article could be about the creation of the CA 36.

#80 olaf hart

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 08:30 PM

How about the Old Fart 21?

#81 Paps

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 09:50 PM

Well yes they were pretty much the parameters we kicked of the 36 with. The 38 version gave a little more comfort and the PH version complete comfort in all conditions. I would take a 38 PH anywhere and still be happy mooching around the bay. And imagine the fun of blitzing the beercan fleet in a PH boat !!!

#82 Cavelamb

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:27 PM

How about the Old Fart 21?


Make it an Olde Fart 26 and I'm aboard!

21 is a bit too small now...

#83 Cavelamb

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Posted 29 February 2012 - 11:44 PM

Cave:
If specifying it as a "cruising boat" means a lot of displacement then the Valiant 40 would never have worked. The old V-40 was considered by many to be too light to be a true cruising boat. I guess I showed them.
I have done several cruising boats that had D/L's under 125 and they are great boats. WHITE EAGLE now WILD HORSES has a D/L of 92 and it's a live aboard boat.

Maybe Ish is right. Perhaps the article could be about the creation of the CA 36.


You Go, Bob!
That could be fun.

Hey, after that last couple of reviews... :blink:


A 36 is almost within fantasizing range.

But 40 is at least 4 feet too far for me to even dream about.
I know I can't have one, so why get excited?
I'm guess I'm somewhat repressed that way.

Sure, people dream about things they can't have.
Alla time...

But I think it's a lot more fun to dream about things you can ALMOST have.

Then you get to thinking, why?
Or rather way not?

Next thing you know you own a boat.

;)

#84 Cavelamb

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 12:02 AM

Cave:
If specifying it as a "cruising boat" means a lot of displacement then the Valiant 40 would never have worked. The old V-40 was considered by many to be too light to be a true cruising boat. I guess I showed them.
I have done several cruising boats that had D/L's under 125 and they are great boats. WHITE EAGLE now WILD HORSES has a D/L of 92 and it's a live aboard boat.

Maybe Ish is right. Perhaps the article could be about the creation of the CA 36.




I made a comment about "tradition being tradition" in another thread.

If we go there all sailing vessels would be patterned on the "plank-on-edge" English Channel cutters.

But to live aboard anything you need enough displacement for your "stuff".

I could live on my little 26 (5100 pounds displacement) IF I were actually sailing somewhere.
Two or three days at a time (until the holding tank fills up) bumping down the coast.
Probably solo. Although my SO, Dorothy, insists that she's game for that.

But tied to a pier, it's a tiny one room shack (D's closet has more space!) with precious few amenities.

So which activity are we calling "live aboard" ?
Sailing down the coast?
Voyaging across blue water?
Or Yet-Another-Condo at the marina?

#85 Bent Sailor

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:30 AM

OK, I tried working my way through that thread where the CA 36, CA 36 PH, etc were designed but there are only so many hours in the day. Does anyone have a link to the final drawings and renders (I really appreciated them)? Also, did it ever get built. I recall quite a few calls for deposits in the thread before I gave up... but can't remember hearing if anyone did.

Yeah, slight thread hijack, but they started it :P

#86 Ishmael

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 02:47 AM

OK, I tried working my way through that thread where the CA 36, CA 36 PH, etc were designed but there are only so many hours in the day. Does anyone have a link to the final drawings and renders (I really appreciated them)? Also, did it ever get built. I recall quite a few calls for deposits in the thread before I gave up... but can't remember hearing if anyone did.

Yeah, slight thread hijack, but they started it :P


The drawing thread

#87 Bent Sailor

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 04:54 AM

Thanks Ishmael. Very much appreciated. From the looks of that thread though - she never made it off the drawing board(s).

#88 Ishmael

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 05:12 AM

Thanks Ishmael. Very much appreciated. From the looks of that thread though - she never made it off the drawing board(s).


Although there were a couple of inquiries after Bob's review appeared in Sailing, nobody was willing to actually plunk down any doubloons.
It was pretty close, but those of us who were most interested were also penniless or less. It wasn't until later that people with actual money appeared on the scene and then they had their own ideas.

#89 Paps

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:01 AM

Yes it was very much a wish list brain exercise. We never held back on the ideas to make it commercial. The fact that there were enquirers was an unexpected bonus. Call it a free form design. Bloody sweet though.




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