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Italian cruise ship tragedy


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#101 jhc

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 05:30 PM

"Just read that the captain has been arrested for a number of nasties, including triple manslaughter and abandoning ship." (icetea)

Roman law. Presumption of guilt, not innocence. The captain will need to 'prove' his proper conduct.

The details of the incident are in fact several dead, and that the captain did leave the ship.

#102 in_TO

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 05:47 PM

chances are the Captain wasn't on the Bridge and was at rest or dinner or Mix n Mingle.


Don't indulge in idle speculation; it serves nothing.

According to the Associated Press, the captain was on the bridge at the time of the grounding.

#103 Alpha FB

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 05:51 PM

https://plus.google....479271862536705

Lots of pics


Looking at the close-up of the rock embedded in the bottom of the ship, it's quite remarkable that the rock in question doesn't appear to show any signs of having been recently broken off from terra firma, but shows signs if growth on all visible angles?

I'm beginning to think this story may have more to it than most of us seem to think...

If they're skirting the 10m contour (where the Italian analysis shows the point of probable impact), with a draft of 8.2m, it doesn't take a too enourmous boulder lying in an unexpected place to mess up the ship.

Form an earlier video on Youtube, it appears that a standard part of the cruise was to pass close by the island, but still, deliberately going so close to shore that you only have a couple of metres reserve under 8m of keel can never be considered smart...

#104 Bsquared

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 05:58 PM

Greast find on the Conrad article.. He clearly had a good view of the future.

He predicts large ships "...with a full cargo of passengers, a full crew of 1,500 cafe waiters, two sailors and a boy"

and "A commander should be able to hold his ship and
everything on board of her in the hollow of his hand, as it were. But
with the modern foolish trust in material, and with those floating
hotels, this has become impossible. A man may do his best, but he cannot
succeed in a task which from greed, or more likely from sheer stupidity,
has been made too great for anybody's strength."

I'll leave the floating hotels to others.

#105 the truth.

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:00 PM

The propellers were stll spinning when the boat rolled, do you know what sound they made?
Dago wop wop wop wop wop wop..............

Ed please flick this peice of shit offa these forums

#106 Canal Bottom

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:05 PM

Posted Image


The Costa Concordia's next port of call took the ship on a northbound route in between the island of Giglio and the Italian mainland. We received a report that the island of Giglio was meant as more of a "fly-by" opportunity for the guests on board to take photos, and that the ship was not scheduled to stop there. Upon completing their "fly-by", there is speculation that the ship had tried to cut the corner by sailing through a narrow channel between Giglio and the small island of Cala Del Lazzaretto, however looking at the chart, this theory is HIGHLY unlikely.


Considering the depth of the waters in that area, what certainly appears possible is they laid their northbound track exactly adjacent and to the east of Cala Del Lazzaretto. The above chart is certainly not the same scale chart as would be found on board the Costa Concordia, but as you can see, there's plenty of open ocean for a cruise ship to depart safely. Charting a course close to Cala Del Lazzarretto would have not have been the prudent decision.

Other speculation exists that the ship experienced an electrical issue a few hours out of her last port of Civitavecchia and that the captain had decided to bring the ship in toward Giglio

This does not add up. A ship experiencing electrical problems that would affect the ship's steering and/or propulsion systems does not approach shoal water or try to enter port without tugboat assistance.

Perhaps the ship's power went out and she lost steering?

It's certainly possible. Her sistership, the Carnival Splendor experienced an engine room fire last year that left the ship dark and adrift for days off the coast of Mexico in 2010. Power loss can happen for a number of reasons such as loss of seawater cooling to the engines, a blown circuit breaker, or a power overload situation. Had the loss of power affected the ship's steering gears, it might have sent the ship off course and into the rocks.

Considering the size of the ship, and her speed at the time, any such casualty in close proximity to shoal water would have likely led to this disaster.

Perhaps the steering system malfunctioned?

After doing some research on this particular vessel, it appears the Costa Concordia did not use "azipod"-type drives, rather she used conventional rudder and propellor shaft, "tail drive," arrangement powered by a diesel-electric system. Had the rudders experienced a mismatch scenario, where the rudders did not react exactly to the rudder orders of the helmsman, the ship would have sailed off course.

About 10 years ago I was on a US Navy destroyer when this exact situation occurred, the rudders went the opposite way of the ordered rudder angle. Fortunately we were able to immediately take remote control of the rudders and essentially drive them by hand and a potential crisis was averted.

Is it possible this same situation occurred on the Costa Concordia? Sure. Was it the root cause of this disaster? Probably not considering how much open water was available to leave the port safely.

Perhaps the ship was going too fast and it experienced a phenomenon called "ship's squat".

When large ships move through shallow water, they tend to squat, or sink down in the water. This is essentially due to the Bernoulli effect. The water directly under the hull is squeezed and forced to move faster than the water around the sides of the hull creating a low pressure area under the hull. This phenomenon was determined to be the contributing factor in the grounding of the QE2 in 1992 off Martha's Vineyard. She was transiting through the channel at 24 knots and hit a submerged rock at a depth of 34 feet. Her normal operating draft was 32.5 feet, however due to the squat effect, she ran hard aground. The ship's crew had estimated the squat effect had increased her draft by 2 feet, however investigators later estimated it to be between 4 and 8 feet.

Considering the size of the gash on the port side of the ship, she was certainly moving along smartly at the time, which would indicate that ship's squat may have been a factor.

All that being said…

The port of Giglio does not have a narrow channel, it's an open bay to the sea with deep navigable water all around. Hence the fact they have constructed breakwaters around the port. At this point in time, there does not appear to be any reasonable answer why the ship navigated so closely to the island of Cala Del Lazzarretto.






#107 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 06:10 PM

This happened in relatively benign weather, the ship didn't sink, and she ended up in swimming distance of the beach.
Anyone care to guess at the results in bad weather and deep water :o :o

#108 jerryj2me

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 08:00 PM


This a link to an article in Italian. They make a quite accurate reconstruction of what happened.
My link


Anyone want to translate? I can take a wild guess as to what this part of the link above means:

...-gravissima-negligenza-...

That doesn't sound good.


Here's the website with a google translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.farevela.net%2F2012%2F01%2F14%2Ftragedia-costa-concordia-al-giglio-non-ci-sono-secche-che-una-nave-del-genere-possa-urtare-pena-gravissima-negligenza-un-chiarimento-di-semplici-principi-di-navigazione%2F

Its a little rough but its a computer translation, and they mess the slang up.

#109 Jambalaya

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:06 PM

Love the interview with 'industry expert' on the BBC
"these ships are built for revenue generation not safety"

yes me too "industry expert" in this case is a travel journalist from a newspaper !

#110 Rail Meat

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:07 PM

This happened in relatively benign weather, the ship didn't sink, and she ended up in swimming distance of the beach.
Anyone care to guess at the results in bad weather and deep water :o :o



Methinks that in deep water she may not have picked up her new ballast stone.

#111 Albatros

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:39 PM


chances are the Captain wasn't on the Bridge and was at rest or dinner or Mix n Mingle.


Don't indulge in idle speculation; it serves nothing.

According to the Associated Press, the captain was on the bridge at the time of the grounding.

captain is supposed to go last, captain was (supposedly) seen ashore around midnight, last people getting off the kroozer around 5 AM, hence ... that's where spec-uh-lation meets ye ole seagoin' rules.

#112 jo forthan

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 09:54 PM

we can see giglio from here,
we just heard on the local news, that when the coastguard saw the captain leaving the costa,they told him he must stay with the ship,
ok, he said, then left anyway
they then arrested him

#113 knuckles

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:04 PM

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/115893768571611039178/albums/5697479271862536705

Lots of pics



This one is interesting.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/115893768571611039178/albums/5697479271862536705/5697777128288724018

#114 knuckles

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:16 PM

Here is a link to photos of the underside of the starboard side of the ship.

http://gcaptain.com/...r-photos/?37577

#115 Foreverslow

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:33 PM

couple details on CNN

Costa is owned by carnival lines.

Costa now saying human error may be in order.

no mayday sent.
how could they not call it in when things were so bad they had to run it aground?

will be interesting is see what is on the black box.
http://www.cnn.com/2....html?hpt=hp_t1

#116 Teachessail

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:35 PM

BBC breaking news.

That Capitaino is going to prison. 8.2m draught and faffing around on a 10m contour with 10,000 tonnes and 4,000 souls. Stupidly close to a visibly rocky shore, what you see above the WL will give a very good indicator of what's below and 1.8m clearance is the same size as..well....a very big rock..(there's a keel somewhere with big chunk missing where I learnt that lesson). If he wanted to get close for photos for the paying guests he didn't even need to cross the 20m contour. FFS you wouldn't even do that during blind nav in fog.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-16570281

#117 Goodluck Jonathan

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:44 PM



#118 Teachessail

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:51 PM



Good post.

Must have been a distress call, look at how all the other shipping in the area reacts.

#119 dreaded

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 10:53 PM

"Just read that the captain has been arrested for a number of nasties, including triple manslaughter and abandoning ship." (icetea)

Roman law. Presumption of guilt, not innocence. The captain will need to 'prove' his proper conduct.

The details of the incident are in fact several dead, and that the captain did leave the ship.


and that he belonged to a satanic cult and participated in such rituals..

#120 I'moutahere

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:00 PM

Just curious. Is there a law, or is it in legislation, that the captain must be the last to leave the sinking ship? I have minor commercial qualifications (Master 5) and I don't recall reading any such thing. It's not in the Int. Collision Regulations.

#121 Snaggletooth

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:08 PM

Just curious. Is there a law, or is it in legislation, that the captain must be the last to leave the sinking ship? I have minor commercial qualifications (Master 5) and I don't recall reading any such thing. It's not in the Int. Collision Regulations.

No :)

#122 jo forthan

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:08 PM

My link

#123 eric e

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Posted 15 January 2012 - 11:09 PM

imho

if the gps track log shows he was inside previous island passes by the ship

he has a case

maybe an earthquake? did roll that boulder into a new position

but if the track shows he was closer to the island, at the point of impact, than any previous cruise

he was taking too big a risk and negligent, or made a serious navigation error

#124 Boo-Yah

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:10 AM

from the New York Times

"While the investigation continued, island residents, many of whom are sailors, had little doubt about the cause of the accident, saying the captain had tried to thread a narrow passage between the rocks that was too small for the 114,500-ton ship.

“We used to get kind of close to the shore to show off its beauty, to entertain passengers,” said Demetrio Mattera, 75, a former cruise ship sailor here. “But never so close.”"

Gaia Pianigiani reported from Giglio, Italy, and Sarah Maslin Nir from New York.



#125 El Mariachi

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:18 AM



What, a submarine continent? Atlantis? There is a huge rock embedded in the bottom of that ship.

Posted Image

more pics here


Makes you wonder why the submarine had a rock on top of it, doesn't it?


Wow, great pic-----is that a moray I see?....

#126 K38BOB

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:27 AM

My link


Norton blocked that as malacious site

#127 Boo-Yah

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:30 AM

Let's try shooting through there.... Hold my beer, watch this,,,

Posted Image




#128 trenace

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:40 AM

Is it reliably reported that that is in fact the course they took and where they hit the rock?

With 8.2 meter draft, that's insane.

#129 highndry

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:31 AM

looks a bit like a clean break on the rock facing outwards

#130 Boo-Yah

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:36 AM

Will the Italians charge Costa for the bottom damage?

Posted Image


#131 DtM

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:41 AM

Boo,

Is that really the course they took !!! Crazy.

It is always tempting to cut corners but around those islands in the Med there are lots of "unexpected" and very sharp rocks. The result of volcanoes over the years. The sharp outcrops just lurk and I would reckon it was obvious that there was at least a serious risk that there could be something in between the two islets.

#132 P_Wop

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:54 AM

Assuming she's not too buggered-up below the waterline on the other side, I'd think recovery might be reasonably straightforward. Weld a very large pre-fabricated steel patch over the hole, including a tasty bulge for the rock, and use 4 or 5 heavy lift ships to get her rightways up. Then start pumping - into a containment tanker, of course.

I'd hope they get cooking on this before they get some winter storms. They can get really nasty in the Med. A bad Mistrale would be a worry, but a big Grecale or Sirocco would start to break her up. And then it's over, Rover.

#133 Mark K

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:57 AM

Will the Italians charge Costa for the bottom damage?

Posted Image


That will buff right out.

#134 auscat

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:57 AM

http://news.ninemsn....aly-cruise-ship
Man there are some classic comments in here like the captain says he was manouvering the ship in "touristic navigation".I think thats a new one for the unexplained boating terms tread.

#135 P_Wop

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:11 AM

http://news.ninemsn....aly-cruise-ship
Man there are some classic comments in here like the captain says he was manouvering the ship in "touristic navigation".I think thats a new one for the unexplained boating terms tread.

A most excellent new SA phrase. For when some over-eager or just plain clueless naviguessor/tacticator puts the boss's boat on the bricks.

#136 hobot

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:18 AM


The propellers were stll spinning when the boat rolled, do you know what sound they made?
Dago wop wop wop wop wop wop..............

Ed please flick this peice of shit offa these forums


HTFU up Francis.

#137 eric e

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:54 AM

should be in fix it anarchy

Attached Files



#138 El Mariachi

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:55 AM



The propellers were stll spinning when the boat rolled, do you know what sound they made?
Dago wop wop wop wop wop wop..............

Ed please flick this peice of shit offa these forums


HTFU up Francis.



No shit. Who the fuk let the Oprah fan in here?.....

#139 fivestar

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:56 AM

The bow of the vessel is facing in a southerly direction, whereas the cruise course was northwards.
Did the vessel make a U turn after the collision with the rock/taking on water to try and get as near to the harbour as possible?

#140 Evo

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 04:17 AM

Let's try shooting through there.... Hold my beer, watch this,,,

Posted Image




while i'm going to guess that the course you have illustrated is not what they did and you are making fun....that point does look like the only place they could have hit and ended up where it is.

reprehensible bastard should get the needle. 70 dead? he's a fuckin' mass murderer.

worst part is because it's the way of the maritime world he won't. there will be some jail time, he will of course be disgraced but he'll still be able to get a job with sea shepherd as an xo. they won't want to create too much grief for the insurance company as there are others boats to operate. fuck the dead. they are dead. we have to make more money as does the insurance company. :angry:

#141 Mark K

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 04:25 AM

The bow of the vessel is facing in a southerly direction, whereas the cruise course was northwards.
Did the vessel make a U turn after the collision with the rock/taking on water to try and get as near to the harbour as possible?


Report was he deliberately steered it into shore when it started to list.

#142 DtM

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:05 AM

I don't think it went through that gap. I think you will find that it hit a rock that is just to the east of the second islet. I went to a diving website for that particular point and that is the likely hit. Someone has shown a photo of it in an earlier post.

#143 cap10ed

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:37 AM

The Captains night order book would be the first piece of the puzzle to see if he ordered the courses for the night passage. The second piece of the puzzle would be the vessels squat table for 15 knots. My estimate puts it at 2.5 metrer increase in draft at that speed. The minut he comes into 20 meter water the squat will increase. Should be interesting to find out if pilots were available but not taken for cost cutting reasons My $0.02

#144 P_Wop

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:02 AM

Time for a new Italian cocktail - the "Costa Concordia." Campari, Nocello and Centerbe - Red, White and Green.

A careful bartender will try to get the layers to float on each other. This may not work. In which case, add rocks.

#145 jo forthan

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:03 AM

http://www.telegraaf...ngekomen__.html

#146 dash34

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:09 AM

Seems odd that the ship would roll over onto the side opposite the hole that sank her. I wonder if there isn't a bigger hole on the other side.

Aside from that, as large as that hole is, shouldn't the watertight compartments have kept her afloat? I hope this isn't another case of a ship steaming along in shallow water with the watertight doors open. I think there was a tragedy in Greece that ended with loss of life because the crew kept the doors open to make it easier to walk around.

Just wondering...

dash

#147 Amati

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:23 AM

http://news.ninemsn....aly-cruise-ship
Man there are some classic comments in here like the captain says he was manouvering the ship in "touristic navigation".I think thats a new one for the unexplained boating terms tread.



washington state ferries used to do all sorts of crazy things like that up in the San Juan Islands. There was one guy who cut in-between a rock and one of the islands. (I was aboard one that did it- quit a thrill, as in WTF?), and the one that I think ended it all was taking somebody past their house really close to the shore so they could see if some one was at home or not, or something like that. The State ended that. A captain was fired, etc etc.

Maybe some of you remember the specifics. Was it in the 70's, 80's?.

There was also a ship that got it's water ballast screwed up while tied up to a dock in Seattle a decade or so ago. Amazing how much list there was.

Paul

#148 highndry

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:51 AM

is that another stabiliser fin to the left of the rock ?


was it the fin that " hooked " the rock ?


also looks like the rock had 2 or 3 metres of water over it if you look at the bottom paint / waterline

#149 guns68

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:52 AM

IIRC there was a Seattle area garage band in the 80's that had a song called or the chorus went "the only drink we're serving here is Elwa on the rocks". After she ran aground in 83 or 84.

#150 Amati

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:14 AM

IIRC there was a Seattle area garage band in the 80's that had a song called or the chorus went "the only drink we're serving here is Elwa on the rocks". After she ran aground in 83 or 84.


Walk/Don't Walk?

#151 pikeout

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:17 AM

How do you clean up that mess?

#152 pro from dover

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:36 AM

OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#153 iSail

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:38 AM

Seems odd that the ship would roll over onto the side opposite the hole that sank her. I wonder if there isn't a bigger hole on the other side.

Aside from that, as large as that hole is, shouldn't the watertight compartments have kept her afloat? I hope this isn't another case of a ship steaming along in shallow water with the watertight doors open. I think there was a tragedy in Greece that ended with loss of life because the crew kept the doors open to make it easier to walk around.

Just wondering...

dash


I noticed that too... maybe they ballasted the starboard side to compensate for the water rushing in on port and just got it wrong? Or electricity cut out and they couldn't deballast to fix it?

#154 Stubby

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 01:01 PM

In these boats there is a requirement to sink on an even keel, this means it is designed so water can freely flow from one side to another. When the captain turned sharply to the left to beach it all the water flowed to the right hand side which made the ship list, this combined with the inherent list when you turn that sharp caused it to tip.

#155 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 02:01 PM

I read someplace that retired cruise ship officers live on this island, so this captain likes (liked :rolleyes: ) to run real close to shore and lay on the horn.
What could possibly go wrong?

#156 El Mariachi

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 03:02 PM

I read someplace that retired cruise ship officers live on this island, so this captain likes (liked :rolleyes: ) to run real close to shore and lay on the horn.
What could possibly go wrong?



Hey-ya To-ny, holda my Chianti and watcha theese.....

#157 dogger

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 04:42 PM

Will the Italians charge Costa for the bottom damage?

Posted Image

Another view of the infamous "Uncharted Rock".

#158 El Mariachi

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 04:52 PM


Will the Italians charge Costa for the bottom damage?

Posted Image

Another view of the infamous "Uncharted Rock".



Hopefully they'll put that fuker back where they found it----or the chart makers are gonna be really pissed.....

#159 'moondance44

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:07 PM

How do you clean up that mess?


Although Carnival put out a statement this will adversely affect earnings for next year to the tune of about $100m usd, (after about $40m insurance used up), my guess is it will not be salvaged, but will be cut up and hauled away. Its going to be some time before they can
get all the fuel and crap off, and survey the structural damage. And once righted, how the F do they get it of that reef? I think they will take it off in as big sections as possible and recycle what they can. Anyone intersted in a cruise ship bow section?

And the real reason the Captain got off is he didnt want his loafers to get wet.

#160 Snaggletooth

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:08 PM



Will the Italians charge Costa for the bottom damage?

Posted Image

Another view of the infamous "Uncharted Rock".



Hopefully they'll put that fuker back where they found it----or the chart makers are gonna be really pissed.....

agreede, an dyou no howe craizie they cane gette!!!! :)

#161 Bob Perry

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:13 PM

Reminds me a bit of when the ferry hit the rock up here supposedly because the skipper had his girlfriend up on the bridge.
The ferry was the Elwah and from the incident came the popular drink ELWAH on THE ROCKS.

#162 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:30 PM

YOUR SHIP SCRATCHED MY ROCK!





Will the Italians charge Costa for the bottom damage?

Posted Image

Another view of the infamous "Uncharted Rock".



Hopefully they'll put that fuker back where they found it----or the chart makers are gonna be really pissed.....

agreede, an dyou no howe craizie they cane gette!!!! :)



#163 Great White

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:31 PM

Reminds me a bit of when the ferry hit the rock up here supposedly because the skipper had his girlfriend up on the bridge.
The ferry was the Elwah and from the incident came the popular drink ELWAH on THE ROCKS.

This one?

http://www.evergreen...com/supers.html


"Unfortunately it was in the Islands that the Elwha would began to develop an unsavory reputation. Perhaps the most famous incident for the vessel happened in 1983 when her captain “discovered” an uncharted rock in Grindstone Harbor while showing a female passenger what her home looked like from the water. The event, while hardly comic as it resulted in a tear in the Elwha’s hull did have some soap opera-like qualities to it.

Soon thereafter the woman in question began being referred to as “the Siren of the San Juans” and local bars began selling a drink called “Elwha on the Rocks.” A local band in Friday Harbor cut a 45 with a song of the same title."

#164 jpsail

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:07 PM

Just trying to catch up on this and have looked a lots of pics this AM.

The first appears to be while Costa Concordia was still heading north from the Telegraph. Is this consistent with the "fly-by" theory as the ship is listing slightly but has not yet capsized?

The second is a Google Earth pic of the east side of Giglio that shows the angle of entrance to the harbor well.

Attached Files



#165 DoRag

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 06:51 PM

OBAMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



George W. Bush did it!

#166 zerothehero

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:05 PM

not that I really think it's possible but....

With the hole out of the water now, any chance they could patch it up, pump it out and get her off?

#167 DoRag

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:40 PM

not that I really think it's possible but....

With the hole out of the water now, any chance they could patch it up, pump it out and get her off?


I am more concerned with the future of the rock.

The rock was abused by the ship.

Set the rock free!

Power to the rock!

#168 trenace

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:43 PM

Perhaps they will let the captain keep it in his yard as a memento.

If he has kids, they might enjoy playing on it. It would probably be awesome for King of the Hill.

I mean, he should end up with something for his years of service, as the pension is probably right out.

#169 iSail

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 07:57 PM

not that I really think it's possible but....

With the hole out of the water now, any chance they could patch it up, pump it out and get her off?


Hard to say, there is significant hull damage on both sides now...

#170 'moondance44

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:09 PM

Costa stands by its man
Costa Cruises has pledged to support the captain of a cruise ship which capsized off Italy this weekend despite pinning much of the blame for the casualty on his shoulders.

CEO Pier Luigi Foschi says the company will help master Francesco Schettino who has been arrested following the Costa Concordia drama and is facing “serious charges”.

Foschi told a media briefing today: “The company will support him and give him all of the legal help that he needs.”

Schettino has attracted a raft of headlines following the grounding and subsequent capsizing of the 114,000-gt Costa Concordia (built 2006) which cost at least six lives.

Costa issued a statement on Sunday which claimed the accident was the result of significant human error by Schettino.

Foschi repeated the thought today, saying “we can’t deny human error seems to have been a factor in this tragic accident.”

He explained the intended route had been correctly inputted into the ship’s computer.

“The fact that it left from this course is due solely to a manoeuvre by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorised and unknown to Costa,” Foschi said according to the BBC.

"He wanted to show the ship, to [go] nearby this island of Giglio, so he decided to change the course of the ship to go closer to the island."

Foschi, who referred to the casualty as a huge tragedy, added: “We are very sorry for this tragic accident. We do not have enough words to describe the pain we feel.”

Schettino has drawn fire for sailing the ship too close to the shore and allegedly leaving the vessel before all of the passengers had been evacuated. He has defended his role in the episode.

He claims the ship struck a “lateral rock projection” while in an area which his charts indicated was safe.

In an interview with state media he also claimed to be among the last to leave the ship.

At the crash site today fears fuel will spill from the ship remained.

Environment Minister Corrado Clini said: "The vessel has reservoirs full of fuel, it is a heavy diesel which could sink down to the seabed, that would be a disaster.

"As soon as possible, the fuel will be removed from the vessel. But we have to take into account the precarious state of the ship.”

#171 iSail

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:21 PM

In these boats there is a requirement to sink on an even keel, this means it is designed so water can freely flow from one side to another. When the captain turned sharply to the left to beach it all the water flowed to the right hand side which made the ship list, this combined with the inherent list when you turn that sharp caused it to tip.


freely flowing water in a compromised vessel is a killer due to something called the free surface effect. In a heeling vessel the freely flowing water will go more and more to one side effectively heeling the it even more........

#172 dogger

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:38 PM


not that I really think it's possible but....

With the hole out of the water now, any chance they could patch it up, pump it out and get her off?


I am more concerned with the future of the rock.

The rock was abused by the ship.

Set the rock free!

Power to the rock!

Uncharted rocks have no rights.

#173 trenace

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:39 PM

Costa stands by its man
Costa Cruises has pledged to support the captain of a cruise ship which capsized off Italy this weekend despite pinning much of the blame for the casualty on his shoulders.

CEO Pier Luigi Foschi says the company will help master Francesco Schettino who has been arrested following the Costa Concordia drama and is facing "serious charges".

Foschi told a media briefing today: "The company will support him and give him all of the legal help that he needs."


It would be a bad move to fail to do this; their providing the legal help is as I think should have been expected.

That said, he's now presumably way, way, way below being in the doghouse with the company.

#174 K38BOB

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:41 PM

Assuming she's not too buggered-up below the waterline on the other side, I'd think recovery might be reasonably straightforward. Weld a very large pre-fabricated steel patch over the hole, including a tasty bulge for the rock, and use 4 or 5 heavy lift ships to get her rightways up. Then start pumping - into a containment tanker, of course.

I'd hope they get cooking on this before they get some winter storms. They can get really nasty in the Med. A bad Mistrale would be a worry, but a big Grecale or Sirocco would start to break her up. And then it's over, Rover.


Would a welded patch support the rock when ship is righted?

#175 El Mariachi

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:43 PM


Costa stands by its man
Costa Cruises has pledged to support the captain of a cruise ship which capsized off Italy this weekend despite pinning much of the blame for the casualty on his shoulders.

CEO Pier Luigi Foschi says the company will help master Francesco Schettino who has been arrested following the Costa Concordia drama and is facing "serious charges".

Foschi told a media briefing today: "The company will support him and give him all of the legal help that he needs."


It would be a bad move to fail to do this; their providing the legal help is as I think should have been expected.

That said, he's now presumably way, way, way below being in the doghouse with the company.



You guys really think so? Key-rhyst, if he was working for me and did something like this I'd a cut the fuker off at the knees the second he touched land....

#176 DoRag

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:45 PM


Assuming she's not too buggered-up below the waterline on the other side, I'd think recovery might be reasonably straightforward. Weld a very large pre-fabricated steel patch over the hole, including a tasty bulge for the rock, and use 4 or 5 heavy lift ships to get her rightways up. Then start pumping - into a containment tanker, of course.

I'd hope they get cooking on this before they get some winter storms. They can get really nasty in the Med. A bad Mistrale would be a worry, but a big Grecale or Sirocco would start to break her up. And then it's over, Rover.


Would a welded patch support the rock when ship is righted?


Why would you weld a patch onto the rock?

This rock has been through alot. Leave it alone.

#177 dyslexic dog

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 08:56 PM

At least the front did not fall off.

#178 Foredeck Shuffle

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:02 PM

"Shame on you!" - Costa Concordia’s Guest Services Manager Speaks Out, Defends Crew & Captain




I think this gentleman has just told all of you to "EMF!", as politely as he could.



#179 Snaggletooth

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:05 PM



Assuming she's not too buggered-up below the waterline on the other side, I'd think recovery might be reasonably straightforward. Weld a very large pre-fabricated steel patch over the hole, including a tasty bulge for the rock, and use 4 or 5 heavy lift ships to get her rightways up. Then start pumping - into a containment tanker, of course.

I'd hope they get cooking on this before they get some winter storms. They can get really nasty in the Med. A bad Mistrale would be a worry, but a big Grecale or Sirocco would start to break her up. And then it's over, Rover.


Would a welded patch support the rock when ship is righted?


Why would you weld a patch onto the rock?

This rock has been through alot. Leave it alone.

Agreeded, do notte patche rock, juste findit a niew home. :)

#180 K38BOB

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:06 PM

US passenger survivors report on National TV (story and video) link

#181 peeker

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:28 PM

Please forgive my ignorance, but does the Capt. plug into a computer the coordinates that he would like his ship to follow for a certain amount of time? And if that is so, is it on auto-pilot, with no one actually steering the boat? And if someone took it off auto-pilot, and changed course, wouldn't that show up in the black box and absolve the Capt of some of the error? (He was having dinner when it happened) But imho, no absolution from leaving the ship early, I understand that no matter what, there will be chaos, but he is the Captain, and should have been there to help.

#182 trenace

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:40 PM

I'm sure it will be determined whether the captain's standing orders or specific orders were followed or disobeyed, or whether he allowed free-form decisions from his crew that included actions like this.

Hopefully soon it will be revealed where the ship hit the rock, and whether or not charts show adequate depth, with good margin in each direction, at that point.

#183 DoRag

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:45 PM

I'm sure it will be determined whether the captain's standing orders or specific orders were followed or disobeyed, or whether he allowed free-form decisions from his crew that included actions like this.

Hopefully soon it will be revealed where the ship hit the rock, and whether or not charts show adequate depth, with good margin in each direction, at that point.


In the Navy, the CO would be on the bridge anytime a ship is entering or leaving port, or operating in close proximity to a hazard. Usually he would have the conn, if not, he would monitor everything. Standing orders would hardly be relied upon.

#184 trenace

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:46 PM



Costa stands by its man
Costa Cruises has pledged to support the captain of a cruise ship which capsized off Italy this weekend despite pinning much of the blame for the casualty on his shoulders.

CEO Pier Luigi Foschi says the company will help master Francesco Schettino who has been arrested following the Costa Concordia drama and is facing "serious charges".

Foschi told a media briefing today: "The company will support him and give him all of the legal help that he needs."


It would be a bad move to fail to do this; their providing the legal help is as I think should have been expected.

That said, he's now presumably way, way, way below being in the doghouse with the company.



You guys really think so? Key-rhyst, if he was working for me and did something like this I'd a cut the fuker off at the knees the second he touched land....


Yeah, I do. In no particular order of importance:

1) It's better within the company if employees feel they can count on the company to support them legally if they ever run into trouble. There will be employees who do act responsibly and always intend to, but know that circumstances can occur where they might appear at fault and a legal investigation might occur.

If these employees wind up feeling, "The company stood up for him but, he screwed the pooch so badly there was no hope, the blame is all his" then that's a better situation than having them feel the company left him hanging out to dry.

2) Publicly washing their hands of the captain at this early point and refusing to support him legally could give the public the impression that it's a slam dunk case with obvious extreme guilt. If they knew that his word should be utterly discounted before even having all the facts, then what were they doing putting him in this position in the first place?

Better to have it appear that the company sees it possible that accident may have been involved, rather than pure criminal negligence.

It seems to me they've struck a good balance in their statements. Neither crucifying their own people (and thereby themselves) nor stonewalling or in any minimizing what happened.

#185 trenace

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 09:54 PM


I'm sure it will be determined whether the captain's standing orders or specific orders were followed or disobeyed, or whether he allowed free-form decisions from his crew that included actions like this.

Hopefully soon it will be revealed where the ship hit the rock, and whether or not charts show adequate depth, with good margin in each direction, at that point.


In the Navy, the CO would be on the bridge anytime a ship is entering or leaving port, or operating in close proximity to a hazard. Usually he would have the conn, if not, he would monitor everything. Standing orders would hardly be relied upon.


I'm not assuming that the cruise lines operate as the Navy does.

If they did, then also shifting blame to subordinates wouldn't get him far in any case.

Not that it matters at this point how the cruise line evaluates him... it's an Italian court he has to worry about, obviously.

But I have no information on whether they'd be satisfied with "standing orders did not lead to the accident, there were no specific orders leading to the accident, orders given would have prevented the accident if followed, he did not have a policy allowing cavalier actions when he was off the bridge, he was off the bridge, we consider being off the bridge when leaving port not in itself negligent, therefore not guilty."

It sounds as if most likely the bridge crew was operating within his parameters. But really the facts are too scarce. And if they were not, then what idea do we have on whether to the Italian courts that is enough to escape the homicide charge?

#186 fivestar

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:16 PM

Sorry maybe I am getting confused, but does the first photo not show the bow facing south?
5*

Just trying to catch up on this and have looked a lots of pics this AM.

The first appears to be while Costa Concordia was still heading north from the Telegraph. Is this consistent with the "fly-by" theory as the ship is listing slightly but has not yet capsized?

The second is a Google Earth pic of the east side of Giglio that shows the angle of entrance to the harbor well.



#187 sledracr

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:26 PM

Sorry maybe I am getting confused, but does the first photo not show the bow facing south?
5*


Just trying to catch up on this and have looked a lots of pics this AM.

The first appears to be while Costa Concordia was still heading north from the Telegraph. Is this consistent with the "fly-by" theory as the ship is listing slightly but has not yet capsized?

The second is a Google Earth pic of the east side of Giglio that shows the angle of entrance to the harbor well.

There have been hints in various reports saying that they did something with the anchors to get the ship into the shallows. I wonder if they dumped an anchor and it pinned the bow while the stern swung around? Would explain how the hole ended up on "the high side" rather than under water.... where holes usually stay.

#188 UrbanChicago

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:41 PM



Costa stands by its man
Costa Cruises has pledged to support the captain of a cruise ship which capsized off Italy this weekend despite pinning much of the blame for the casualty on his shoulders.

CEO Pier Luigi Foschi says the company will help master Francesco Schettino who has been arrested following the Costa Concordia drama and is facing "serious charges".

Foschi told a media briefing today: "The company will support him and give him all of the legal help that he needs."


It would be a bad move to fail to do this; their providing the legal help is as I think should have been expected.

That said, he's now presumably way, way, way below being in the doghouse with the company.



You guys really think so? Key-rhyst, if he was working for me and did something like this I'd a cut the fuker off at the knees the second he touched land....


Well, then that dude is going to hire his own lawyer, who isn't going to be a complete dummy, and is going to know that the absolute best course of action is to make sure you get as much of the blame as possible. He KNOWS what documents to subpeona. He (or someone in the organization who likes him) KNOWS about some of the other unrelated crap you've been working on that would get a bit more scrutiny if it somehow became public. You will have to hire some number of lawyers to deal with the headaches he must cause for you and that is going to cost some order of magnitude more money than if you simple provided him with the legal services that he will need.


What are the odds that the captain or one of his friends has an undeleted email in his inbox from a corporate officer in regards to any of the previous "derivations from course" near this island? And what are the odds that the email says "Do it again and you're fired" vs. "That was beautiful and very well received by the locals. Thank you very much"?

Throw the captain a bone and some of the stupid things you've done stay off the front page of the newspaper.

#189 Tony-F18

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:46 PM

Still 29 people missing :(

Just watched an interview with the company's CEO and they have really thrown the captain under the bus, several times.

In the end the company could lose up to a €1B, the ship alone costs €600m and brings in €60m/year.
Damages to passengers could be between maybe €20k up to half a million for lives lost.

#190 El Mariachi

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:20 PM




Costa stands by its man
Costa Cruises has pledged to support the captain of a cruise ship which capsized off Italy this weekend despite pinning much of the blame for the casualty on his shoulders.

CEO Pier Luigi Foschi says the company will help master Francesco Schettino who has been arrested following the Costa Concordia drama and is facing "serious charges".

Foschi told a media briefing today: "The company will support him and give him all of the legal help that he needs."


It would be a bad move to fail to do this; their providing the legal help is as I think should have been expected.

That said, he's now presumably way, way, way below being in the doghouse with the company.



You guys really think so? Key-rhyst, if he was working for me and did something like this I'd a cut the fuker off at the knees the second he touched land....


Well, then that dude is going to hire his own lawyer, who isn't going to be a complete dummy, and is going to know that the absolute best course of action is to make sure you get as much of the blame as possible. He KNOWS what documents to subpeona. He (or someone in the organization who likes him) KNOWS about some of the other unrelated crap you've been working on that would get a bit more scrutiny if it somehow became public. You will have to hire some number of lawyers to deal with the headaches he must cause for you and that is going to cost some order of magnitude more money than if you simple provided him with the legal services that he will need.


What are the odds that the captain or one of his friends has an undeleted email in his inbox from a corporate officer in regards to any of the previous "derivations from course" near this island? And what are the odds that the email says "Do it again and you're fired" vs. "That was beautiful and very well received by the locals. Thank you very much"?

Throw the captain a bone and some of the stupid things you've done stay off the front page of the newspaper.


Yeah well, I'm actually a real shitty boss. Hell, I even fired my own brother before. Twice......

#191 Ishmael

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:22 PM

Sorry maybe I am getting confused, but does the first photo not show the bow facing south?
5*


Just trying to catch up on this and have looked a lots of pics this AM.

The first appears to be while Costa Concordia was still heading north from the Telegraph. Is this consistent with the "fly-by" theory as the ship is listing slightly but has not yet capsized?

The second is a Google Earth pic of the east side of Giglio that shows the angle of entrance to the harbor well.


Yes, you're confused. The bow is still pointing south.

Attached File  Capture.JPG   88.07K   30 downloads

#192 DoRag

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:24 PM

Still 29 people missing :(

Just watched an interview with the company's CEO and they have really thrown the captain under the bus, several times.

In the end the company could lose up to a €1B, the ship alone costs €600m and brings in €60m/year.
Damages to passengers could be between maybe €20k up to half a million for lives lost.


Don't forget that the rock was severely damaged also. The rock has retained legal counsel - Skadden Arps - and Arturo Nes Pas.

#193 DtM

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:50 PM

Because it is a rock star they are doing pro bono.

#194 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:57 PM

Deal is you pay for his lawyer and make it clear he'll get a pension on the down-low and he says the cruise line told him not to sink the ship and he ignored their totally excellent advice ;)





Costa stands by its man
Costa Cruises has pledged to support the captain of a cruise ship which capsized off Italy this weekend despite pinning much of the blame for the casualty on his shoulders.

CEO Pier Luigi Foschi says the company will help master Francesco Schettino who has been arrested following the Costa Concordia drama and is facing "serious charges".

Foschi told a media briefing today: "The company will support him and give him all of the legal help that he needs."


It would be a bad move to fail to do this; their providing the legal help is as I think should have been expected.

That said, he's now presumably way, way, way below being in the doghouse with the company.



You guys really think so? Key-rhyst, if he was working for me and did something like this I'd a cut the fuker off at the knees the second he touched land....


Well, then that dude is going to hire his own lawyer, who isn't going to be a complete dummy, and is going to know that the absolute best course of action is to make sure you get as much of the blame as possible. He KNOWS what documents to subpeona. He (or someone in the organization who likes him) KNOWS about some of the other unrelated crap you've been working on that would get a bit more scrutiny if it somehow became public. You will have to hire some number of lawyers to deal with the headaches he must cause for you and that is going to cost some order of magnitude more money than if you simple provided him with the legal services that he will need.


What are the odds that the captain or one of his friends has an undeleted email in his inbox from a corporate officer in regards to any of the previous "derivations from course" near this island? And what are the odds that the email says "Do it again and you're fired" vs. "That was beautiful and very well received by the locals. Thank you very much"?

Throw the captain a bone and some of the stupid things you've done stay off the front page of the newspaper.



#195 DoRag

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:09 AM

Because it is a rock star they are doing pro bono.


A "rock" star?

Funny.

#196 fivestar

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:11 AM

Nope, the caption said "The first appears to be while Costa Condordia was still heading north". In the photo the vessel is heading south.

"


Sorry maybe I am getting confused, but does the first photo not show the bow facing south?
5*

Just trying to catch up on this and have looked a lots of pics this AM.

The first appears to be while Costa Concordia was still heading north from the Telegraph. Is this consistent with the "fly-by" theory as the ship is listing slightly but has not yet capsized?

The second is a Google Earth pic of the east side of Giglio that shows the angle of entrance to the harbor well.


Yes, you're confused. The bow is still pointing south.

Attached File  Capture.JPG   88.07K   30 downloads



#197 El Mariachi

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:12 AM


Because it is a rock star they are doing pro bono.


A "rock" star?

Funny.


Suddenly I'm hearing that gawd awful Chvevy ad in the back of my f'ng head.......

#198 Mark K

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:18 AM

Nope, the caption said "The first appears to be while Costa Condordia was still heading north". In the photo the vessel is heading south.

"



Sorry maybe I am getting confused, but does the first photo not show the bow facing south?
5*

Just trying to catch up on this and have looked a lots of pics this AM.

The first appears to be while Costa Concordia was still heading north from the Telegraph. Is this consistent with the "fly-by" theory as the ship is listing slightly but has not yet capsized?

The second is a Google Earth pic of the east side of Giglio that shows the angle of entrance to the harbor well.


Yes, you're confused. The bow is still pointing south.

Attached File  Capture.JPG   88.07K   30 downloads


You are laboring under the assumption that it hit the rock and was stopped right there.

The report was they hit a rock and then steered to shore when they started listing. He deliberately grounded the vessel there after the hit. The direction it's facing now would be meaningless.

#199 DoRag

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:07 AM



Because it is a rock star they are doing pro bono.


A "rock" star?

Funny.


Suddenly I'm hearing that gawd awful Chvevy ad in the back of my f'ng head.......



Like a roooocccckkkkkkkk........

#200 Pog

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Posted 17 January 2012 - 01:35 AM

https://plus.google.com/u/0/photos/115893768571611039178/albums/5697479271862536705

Lots of pics


So after looking at the pics at the bottom of the page, where you can see the rock in the side of the ship. Is anyone else confused by how it got there without hitting the stabilizer wing?? Were they turning hard to Stbd to avoid the rock at the last minute and smashed the stern section into it????




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