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Best Sub 20' family friendly dinghy?


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#1 oldskool

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 05:34 PM

Hey all,
I haven't posted up on SA for at least a year. The big boat sailing in San Diego is not nearly as fun as it was on the East Coast, so I slow slid away and started riding mountain bikes where I live in North County (I do still really like the tiger class, but it's hard to steal time away from the fam to roll the dice on having a windy day or not). Anyway, my daughter is now old enough to get out sailing more often and my wife is ready to get sailing again as well. Our thought is a dinghy would be perfect for the low wind level of San Diego.

SO, My question to the dinghy forum is- What is the best sub 20' dinghy (with ASail) that could be sailed pretty flat and mellow for fun day sails AND be fast enough to sail in sportboat regattas? Budget is prob $10k-$15k. Also, any advice on MBYC's boat storage would be awesome. I am in the very early stages of this, so I haven't been to the club yet.

One boat I do like the idea of is the RS Vision. Spoke with the rep yesterday and it seems like it could be about perfect for what we're looking to do. What else is out there like it? I was thinking a Vanguard Nomad, but there doesn't seem to be any to go check out in CA. Man, I miss having APS right down the street...

Thanks for any info!

#2 Icedtea

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:27 PM

I haven't sailed the vision, but from what I've heard it's not too great.

RS have launched a new boat, the Venture that seems to be exactly what you're looking for

#3 Steam Flyer

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:45 PM

Hey all,
I haven't posted up on SA for at least a year. The big boat sailing in San Diego is not nearly as fun as it was on the East Coast, so I slow slid away and started riding mountain bikes where I live in North County (I do still really like the tiger class, but it's hard to steal time away from the fam to roll the dice on having a windy day or not). Anyway, my daughter is now old enough to get out sailing more often and my wife is ready to get sailing again as well. Our thought is a dinghy would be perfect for the low wind level of San Diego.

SO, My question to the dinghy forum is- What is the best sub 20' dinghy (with ASail) that could be sailed pretty flat and mellow for fun day sails AND be fast enough to sail in sportboat regattas? Budget is prob $10k-$15k. Also, any advice on MBYC's boat storage would be awesome. I am in the very early stages of this, so I haven't been to the club yet.

One boat I do like the idea of is the RS Vision. Spoke with the rep yesterday and it seems like it could be about perfect for what we're looking to do. What else is out there like it? I was thinking a Vanguard Nomad, but there doesn't seem to be any to go check out in CA. Man, I miss having APS right down the street...

Thanks for any info!


I also like the idea of the RS Vision, haven't seen one in person yet. I sailed the little sister RS Feva but it's just plain too small for me. The specs say the weight is comparable to fiberglass trainers of the same type/size so the issue becomes rigidity/durability. The Feva sailed well in light air despite being overloaded so I'd expect the Vision to be OK.

http://forums.sailinganarchy.com/index.php?showtopic=118223

The Vanguard Nomad is a nice boat. It's a bit tame, definitely not a sportboat BUT it does have some legs. Moves well in light air, not a rocket, and it is not such good hiking boat so it loses some power when the wind gets up. Worth looking into IMHO.

Your price ranges is porbably a bit south of the U-20 but that's probably the closest thing to a boat with class that you'd be after. Check into the Flying Tiger 7.5 too, there's rumors of a 2nd-hand one in your area.

FB- Doug

#4 LakeBoy

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 06:54 PM

The A-sail limits choices a bit. Are there any fleets to join? Always a good choice to have what is popular in the area.

Older options are Buccaneer, Flying Scot, maybe Lightning

#5 Gouvernail

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:33 PM

Family sailing is one of those meaningless terms like family values.

My family believed sailing was best accomplished were my Dad and Mom and brother and sister and later my wife could all go out on various boats and enjoy sailing against each otehr and teh fleet. Tye family won when any of us won. The family won when we went out and tuned with each other. The family won when we sat at a restaurant on teh way home from Wednesday night races and I hopped around teh room entertaining everybody while rubbing a cramp out of my leg.

Family sailing included my dad sailing in Canada with my girlfriend's little sister while I sailed with my girlfriend.

I would ahve been bored to death sailing on some 20 foot boat with my parents on board.


San Diego has a great Laser presence as teh North American Association has been headquartered there for ten years. They must heve some mighty active racing fleets locally.

Thee used to be Snipe fleets.

If I livesd in san Diego, I could afford it, and I were trying to help my family enjoy sailing I would own a bunch of small dinghies and we would sail both in fleets and to joyride.

#6 Lake Shark

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Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:48 PM

if you don't mind an extra foot a viper 640

#7 JimmyY

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:45 AM

I would steer clear of the Nomad, the boat looks good on paper but every body I know who has sailed one was not impressed....one of the guys took it out in moderate breeze and said the boat should have been called No-Go....another one of the guys in my club was on site when they brought one of the early demo boats down to let a bunch of college kids try it out...they managed to capsize it, took crews on 2 powerboats to right the thing and get it back to shore...don't know if they've found a good solution for that.....now that's only 2 experiences, and I know there are lots of Nomads out there...

U-20's & Vipers are sweet...but not sub 20' nor dinghies...

29er meets the criteria for adventure seeking families...
Raider Sport Turbo has a small A-Sail

a trailer with a stack of lasers on it is good family fun!

If you aren't completely attached to the A-Sail, I like the Buccaneer 18, I have one, sail it alone, with small kids & novices...can fly the chute solo, or with any crew courtesy of the launch tube and the roller furling jib. . It's a blast in moderate and heavy air, moves really well in light air.

There will be lots of dinghies sailing in the NOOD regatta mid march...good place to check out what's available in the area....

#8 Wayfarer1071

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 12:06 PM

Wayfarer. Not sure I could put my hand on heart and claim it would be competitive with "sport boats", but I am not sure that what you are looking for could even realistically be compared with a sport boat. I can tell you, they are raced hard (particularly in the NE, Can, and UK), they are legendary at dinghy cruising, and truly a great all around boat for day sailing and beer can racing.

I have had many, many sailors in my Wayfarer who admitted after sailing the boat their pre-conceived notions of a slow family boat were dispelled. They sail well and are reasonably comfortable and an excellent heavy weather boat.

Good luck with your search.


Hey all,
I haven't posted up on SA for at least a year. The big boat sailing in San Diego is not nearly as fun as it was on the East Coast, so I slow slid away and started riding mountain bikes where I live in North County (I do still really like the tiger class, but it's hard to steal time away from the fam to roll the dice on having a windy day or not). Anyway, my daughter is now old enough to get out sailing more often and my wife is ready to get sailing again as well. Our thought is a dinghy would be perfect for the low wind level of San Diego.

SO, My question to the dinghy forum is- What is the best sub 20' dinghy (with ASail) that could be sailed pretty flat and mellow for fun day sails AND be fast enough to sail in sportboat regattas? Budget is prob $10k-$15k. Also, any advice on MBYC's boat storage would be awesome. I am in the very early stages of this, so I haven't been to the club yet.

One boat I do like the idea of is the RS Vision. Spoke with the rep yesterday and it seems like it could be about perfect for what we're looking to do. What else is out there like it? I was thinking a Vanguard Nomad, but there doesn't seem to be any to go check out in CA. Man, I miss having APS right down the street...

Thanks for any info!



#9 oldskool

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:30 PM

Thanks Guys. The only reason I'm thinking Dinghy is that I really don't want to keep a boat in the water and I'm not going to bu a new car to tow around something with a keel.

I really like the idea of a Viper, but I'm not sure I could find one worth buying in my price range. What about Vanguard 15's? I know it doesn't have a kite, but do people sail them out her in SD? Laser is not really an option for us.

Sounds like the Nomad is a dud. Are there any boats simillar to that and the RS Vision?

Thanks

#10 gabes

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:34 PM

Hey all,
I haven't posted up on SA for at least a year. The big boat sailing in San Diego is not nearly as fun as it was on the East Coast, so I slow slid away and started riding mountain bikes where I live in North County (I do still really like the tiger class, but it's hard to steal time away from the fam to roll the dice on having a windy day or not). Anyway, my daughter is now old enough to get out sailing more often and my wife is ready to get sailing again as well. Our thought is a dinghy would be perfect for the low wind level of San Diego.

SO, My question to the dinghy forum is- What is the best sub 20' dinghy (with ASail) that could be sailed pretty flat and mellow for fun day sails AND be fast enough to sail in sportboat regattas? Budget is prob $10k-$15k. Also, any advice on MBYC's boat storage would be awesome. I am in the very early stages of this, so I haven't been to the club yet.

One boat I do like the idea of is the RS Vision. Spoke with the rep yesterday and it seems like it could be about perfect for what we're looking to do. What else is out there like it? I was thinking a Vanguard Nomad, but there doesn't seem to be any to go check out in CA. Man, I miss having APS right down the street...

Thanks for any info!



#11 gabes

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 03:37 PM

If you are sailing at Mission Basy / SoCal you should really look at Thistle fleet. Super active in your area, great racing and fun people. Another "old skool" suggestion would be Lido 14, but no spinnaker so not as attractive.

#12 BalticBandit

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 04:17 PM

Thanks Guys. The only reason I'm thinking Dinghy is that I really don't want to keep a boat in the water and I'm not going to bu a new car to tow around something with a keel.

I really like the idea of a Viper, but I'm not sure I could find one worth buying in my price range. What about Vanguard 15's? I know it doesn't have a kite, but do people sail them out her in SD? Laser is not really an option for us.

Sounds like the Nomad is a dud. Are there any boats simillar to that and the RS Vision?

Thanks

Vanguard 15s are what the collegiate sailing teams will punish your daughter with if you have managed to get her to love sailing enough to go out for one.

A used Johnson 18 (they are rare) kinda fits the bill, but you won't have any racing with it.

You could easily buy 2 older series 5ohs for the price and two up they are fun, and if your daughter or wife or you round up a friend you can do "two boat" day sails.

#13 notallthere

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 05:15 PM

Thanks Guys. The only reason I'm thinking Dinghy is that I really don't want to keep a boat in the water and I'm not going to bu a new car to tow around something with a keel.

I really like the idea of a Viper, but I'm not sure I could find one worth buying in my price range. What about Vanguard 15's? I know it doesn't have a kite, but do people sail them out her in SD? Laser is not really an option for us.

Sounds like the Nomad is a dud. Are there any boats simillar to that and the RS Vision?

Thanks


There was/ is a Nomad @ MBYC. Think i've seen it out once...

The Viper or U-20 best fits your needs, with active fleets, but its a bit of $

The Cat fleet might fit your needs as well.

Thistles are active, but will probably make your young family quit sailing...

There are a few V-15s, Capri 14.2s and Lidos, but not super active.

I gotta pimp the Snipe fleet here. By far the most active and fun family class around. PM me if you want to come and try it out. We have an older fleet loaner boat and some newer ones that can be borrowed on occasion as well. For Thursday night sailing in the summer, it is almost an unspoken rule that you have to sail with a kid.

#14 ortegakid

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:33 PM

FD!!, Sure there are some out there, even 'tho no a-kite, still great fun!

#15 Steam Flyer

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:33 PM


Thanks Guys. The only reason I'm thinking Dinghy is that I really don't want to keep a boat in the water and I'm not going to bu a new car to tow around something with a keel.

I really like the idea of a Viper, but I'm not sure I could find one worth buying in my price range. What about Vanguard 15's? I know it doesn't have a kite, but do people sail them out her in SD? Laser is not really an option for us.

Sounds like the Nomad is a dud. Are there any boats simillar to that and the RS Vision?

Thanks


There was/ is a Nomad @ MBYC. Think i've seen it out once...

The Viper or U-20 best fits your needs, with active fleets, but its a bit of $

The Cat fleet might fit your needs as well.

Thistles are active, but will probably make your young family quit sailing...

There are a few V-15s, Capri 14.2s and Lidos, but not super active.

I gotta pimp the Snipe fleet here. By far the most active and fun family class around. PM me if you want to come and try it out. We have an older fleet loaner boat and some newer ones that can be borrowed on occasion as well. For Thursday night sailing in the summer, it is almost an unspoken rule that you have to sail with a kid.


Who said the Nomad is a dud? It's no sportboat, but claiming "it's a dud" is just prejudicial BS.

If there are Snipes, Thistles, and V-15s in the area then try 'em all before you pick. It's a fun part of process. Doesn't matter so much what I'd pick... The Thistle is the best light-air boat but it's ergonomics are not good (to put it as tactfully as I can)
:blink:

I had a Johnson 18 and was stupid to get rid of it... no OD racing but an awesome boat for fun sailing. There was a dealer in the LA area so you could probably find one. We did not get Viper at the time (mid '90s) because we wanted to sail off a beach much of the time, but a Viper would be even more fun (also a gret light-air boat). Then there's the U-20 thing, worth a serious look

FB- Doug

#16 notallthere

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:52 PM



Thanks Guys. The only reason I'm thinking Dinghy is that I really don't want to keep a boat in the water and I'm not going to bu a new car to tow around something with a keel.

I really like the idea of a Viper, but I'm not sure I could find one worth buying in my price range. What about Vanguard 15's? I know it doesn't have a kite, but do people sail them out her in SD? Laser is not really an option for us.

Sounds like the Nomad is a dud. Are there any boats simillar to that and the RS Vision?

Thanks


There was/ is a Nomad @ MBYC. Think i've seen it out once...

The Viper or U-20 best fits your needs, with active fleets, but its a bit of $

The Cat fleet might fit your needs as well.

Thistles are active, but will probably make your young family quit sailing...

There are a few V-15s, Capri 14.2s and Lidos, but not super active.

I gotta pimp the Snipe fleet here. By far the most active and fun family class around. PM me if you want to come and try it out. We have an older fleet loaner boat and some newer ones that can be borrowed on occasion as well. For Thursday night sailing in the summer, it is almost an unspoken rule that you have to sail with a kid.


Who said the Nomad is a dud? It's no sportboat, but claiming "it's a dud" is just prejudicial BS.

If there are Snipes, Thistles, and V-15s in the area then try 'em all before you pick. It's a fun part of process. Doesn't matter so much what I'd pick... The Thistle is the best light-air boat but it's ergonomics are not good (to put it as tactfully as I can)
:blink:

I had a Johnson 18 and was stupid to get rid of it... no OD racing but an awesome boat for fun sailing. There was a dealer in the LA area so you could probably find one. We did not get Viper at the time (mid '90s) because we wanted to sail off a beach much of the time, but a Viper would be even more fun (also a gret light-air boat). Then there's the U-20 thing, worth a serious look

FB- Doug


Well, I didn't call the nomad a dud... and I've never seen the v-15s out, so I wouldn't recommend them here.

The Thistle class is having the Nationals here this year, so maybe you could join in that fun, or pick up a good used boat after the event.

Agree that the Johnson would fit all needs, except the racing ( but there is usually a portsmouth start, so maybe not a big deal)

#17 John D

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 06:57 PM

Hey all,
I haven't posted up on SA for at least a year. The big boat sailing in San Diego is not nearly as fun as it was on the East Coast, so I slow slid away and started riding mountain bikes where I live in North County (I do still really like the tiger class, but it's hard to steal time away from the fam to roll the dice on having a windy day or not). Anyway, my daughter is now old enough to get out sailing more often and my wife is ready to get sailing again as well. Our thought is a dinghy would be perfect for the low wind level of San Diego.

SO, My question to the dinghy forum is- What is the best sub 20' dinghy (with ASail) that could be sailed pretty flat and mellow for fun day sails AND be fast enough to sail in sportboat regattas? Budget is prob $10k-$15k. Also, any advice on MBYC's boat storage would be awesome. I am in the very early stages of this, so I haven't been to the club yet.

One boat I do like the idea of is the RS Vision. Spoke with the rep yesterday and it seems like it could be about perfect for what we're looking to do. What else is out there like it? I was thinking a Vanguard Nomad, but there doesn't seem to be any to go check out in CA. Man, I miss having APS right down the street...

Thanks for any info!

I think this might hit all the right buttons
raidersailboats.com

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#18 ortegakid

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 09:13 PM

Had a J18 after my FD, was a great boat, very well built, but no chute launcher, just a bag. And do not ever knock her down, we did once when wifey driving downwind reach with kite up, had to be rescued and towed to get her upright again! Think it would have been good for portsmouth racing seemed a fair rating.

#19 SheepStations

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:04 PM

What you need is a Tasar (www.tasar.com.au) It's a lightweight, high performance boat that is great for family sailing and racing. Got the Worlds up at The Gorge next year as well so that could be some added incentive for a great family holiday. Fair chance we'll see Jonathan and Libby McKee back in the class for a crack at another world title.
You can buy a brand new boat within your budget from West Coast Sailing http://www.westcoast...e/2-person.html

Too easy!

#20 Steam Flyer

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Posted 30 January 2012 - 10:16 PM

Had a J18 after my FD, was a great boat, very well built, but no chute launcher, just a bag. And do not ever knock her down, we did once when wifey driving downwind reach with kite up, had to be rescued and towed to get her upright again! Think it would have been good for portsmouth racing seemed a fair rating.


We capsized the Jn-18 a couple of times. Once in Sarasota Bay where the shallow hard-pack sand bottom was a nice gift, held the boat about 45deg from turtling while we got organized.

The boat does turtle quickly & forcefully, almost as bad as a catamaran. The answer is to use the same method cats do, put the nose down & use a righting line. I could do it by myself on a calm day but it took a long time. 1 person on the righting line and one person sitting at the knuckle of the bow, or 2 people hanging on the righting line, pulled it up smartly.

I can see why anybody used to FJs and the more standard run of smallish centerboarders would think it was a nightmare and resort to 2 crash boats and a helicopter. But that's really over-reacting.

The most dramatic crash we had was one day on a big lake with gusts ~25 and I slightly overreacted... spinnaker up, was hiking hard and the combination of bearing away + the chop yanked me right out of the cockpit. I let go of the tiller to avoid a crash-gybe and the boat pretty much went airborn, flinging the crew over the mainsail. I thought only boats with traps did that kind of stuff
:D

FB- Doug

#21 shanghaisailor

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:34 AM

Wayfarer. Not sure I could put my hand on heart and claim it would be competitive with "sport boats", but I am not sure that what you are looking for could even realistically be compared with a sport boat. I can tell you, they are raced hard (particularly in the NE, Can, and UK), they are legendary at dinghy cruising, and truly a great all around boat for day sailing and beer can racing.

I have had many, many sailors in my Wayfarer who admitted after sailing the boat their pre-conceived notions of a slow family boat were dispelled. They sail well and are reasonably comfortable and an excellent heavy weather boat.

Good luck with your search.



Hey all,
I haven't posted up on SA for at least a year. The big boat sailing in San Diego is not nearly as fun as it was on the East Coast, so I slow slid away and started riding mountain bikes where I live in North County (I do still really like the tiger class, but it's hard to steal time away from the fam to roll the dice on having a windy day or not). Anyway, my daughter is now old enough to get out sailing more often and my wife is ready to get sailing again as well. Our thought is a dinghy would be perfect for the low wind level of San Diego.

SO, My question to the dinghy forum is- What is the best sub 20' dinghy (with ASail) that could be sailed pretty flat and mellow for fun day sails AND be fast enough to sail in sportboat regattas? Budget is prob $10k-$15k. Also, any advice on MBYC's boat storage would be awesome. I am in the very early stages of this, so I haven't been to the club yet.

One boat I do like the idea of is the RS Vision. Spoke with the rep yesterday and it seems like it could be about perfect for what we're looking to do. What else is out there like it? I was thinking a Vanguard Nomad, but there doesn't seem to be any to go check out in CA. Man, I miss having APS right down the street...

Thanks for any info!


Beat me to it Wayfarer1071! They are the ultimate get you home dinghy. Can be cruised, raced, pottered (gunkholed for our American friends)an outboard bracket can be bolted on, you can ghost along in the light stuff - they are surprisingly slippery in zhephers - and in a real blow they are incredibly seaworthy for a 16' 6" dinghy. I took a young lady out for her first sail years and years ago - blowing dogs off chains - reefed to the hounds we blasted across the estuary back and forth. The recuse boat came out to ask if we knew what we were doing but oither than a couple of twitchy moments we were never in any risk of a swim.

Also used by multiple sailing schools - fantastic boats!

Check out "Ocean Crossing Wayfarer" or "The Biggest Boat I could afford" - try Amazon - if you really want to see just what some people have done in Wayfarers. Frank & Margaret Dye are legends in the dinghy cruising world.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Shanghai Sailor

#22 oldskool

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:49 AM

What you need is a Tasar (www.tasar.com.au) It's a lightweight, high performance boat that is great for family sailing and racing. Got the Worlds up at The Gorge next year as well so that could be some added incentive for a great family holiday. Fair chance we'll see Jonathan and Libby McKee back in the class for a crack at another world title.
You can buy a brand new boat within your budget from West Coast Sailing http://www.westcoast...e/2-person.html

Too easy!


I like the Tasar idea a lot! I'll look into it more. I'm also thinking that a Snipe could be the right boat. I know it doesn't have a kite, but the cockpit is huge and the boom is high (pretty safe for my 6y/o), and you can get a really nice one for less than $7k- aside from having a solid SD fleet. They both seem like they'd fit in my garage on a trailer as well. Keep the ideas comin'

Thanks

#23 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:24 AM

although LIGHTER than a number of 'dock-worthy' U.S. large dinghies

the i550 !! !!

ticks all the boxes ?

#24 oldskool

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:29 AM

although LIGHTER than a number of 'dock-worthy' U.S. large dinghies

the i550 !! !!

ticks all the boxes ?


If you build me one....haha good idea though. Are there any in SoCal?

#25 zerothehero

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:16 PM

I can certainly see why someone would call a Vanguard Nomad slow but I think the design has some really good points. First off if you are used to light, high performance racing dinghy's you will be disappointed in The Nomad. However you would be disappointing in almost anything that is a "family daysailor". The Nomad has a lot going for it. It is easy to rig alone, has a great cockpit with storage lockers, gnav for more room, it's dry, self bailing and relatively responsive and moderately quick. The down sides are that it will feel slow to a racer, capsize recovery is difficult (but I have done it with 2 people and no outside assistance) and the stock 3DL sails were not really that great to begin with. It's a fun forgiving boat that looks good for a daysailor and is great in heavy air. With 3 people onboard, 25+ is where the fun begins. Prices for used boats are around $10,000 and seem to be holding. I think most racers see them as wanna be's but I really like ours.

#26 kinardly

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:14 AM

Oldskool,

I was thinking about a V-15 a couple of years ago and I talked it over with Jeff Johnson, the Sailing Director at SDYC (222-1103). Jeff had nothing bad to say about the boat but he doubted it would gain traction with the command the Snipe fleet has in the area. I think he called it exactly right. You might see if he has any ideas or maybe call John Fretwell, the Junior Director over there.

I ended up buying a Laser and never looked back but now I'm definitely in the market for something to take grandkids out on and maybe have a little fun by myself. Remembering Jeff's words of wisdom, I contacted the Raider manufacturer about a local dealer committed to building a fleet and was kind of turned off by their lack of enthusiasm. I think it's a neat boat but you could end up with the only one in SD. I also like the looks of that little Vago and West Coast Sailing looks like a distributor that "gets it". I think I'll look into that.

#27 trenace

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:43 AM

Remembering Jeff's words of wisdom, I contacted the Raider manufacturer about a local dealer committed to building a fleet and was kind of turned off by their lack of enthusiasm. I think it's a neat boat but you could end up with the only one in SD.

Maybe more a matter of not wanting to mislead you than lacking enthusiasm for their boat.

#28 Monster Mash

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:06 AM

if you don't mind an extra foot a viper 640



For 10-12K ?

#29 Bulbhunter

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:59 AM

10-15K - socal fun - Weta - its a tight little package that stores easily - light weight - can haul multiple people as a stable swim platform for goofing off and will have a strong used boat value when your done with it.

Can't really go wrong with the weta. That would be my top choice does far more than your standard 14ft ride regarding stability and kid hauling duty and its fast- not to mention if anyone in the family gets the race bug the WETA crew race all over the West coast meaning you could find some solid competition to test your skill.

All the other dinghy options are larger in the transport mode - really only work for two people and for sure do not provide a nice stable swim platform for socal goofing off in warm water. Really a not a hard decision on that one.

I have a RS FEVA for me to solo and have fun with - but if my budget was $8000 more the Weta would be in my garage right now. I may still end up with a Weta but I need to thin down the fleet more before the Weta would be approved by the Boss.

#30 oldskool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:06 AM

Oldskool,

I was thinking about a V-15 a couple of years ago and I talked it over with Jeff Johnson, the Sailing Director at SDYC (222-1103). Jeff had nothing bad to say about the boat but he doubted it would gain traction with the command the Snipe fleet has in the area. I think he called it exactly right. You might see if he has any ideas or maybe call John Fretwell, the Junior Director over there.

I ended up buying a Laser and never looked back but now I'm definitely in the market for something to take grandkids out on and maybe have a little fun by myself. Remembering Jeff's words of wisdom, I contacted the Raider manufacturer about a local dealer committed to building a fleet and was kind of turned off by their lack of enthusiasm. I think it's a neat boat but you could end up with the only one in SD. I also like the looks of that little Vago and West Coast Sailing looks like a distributor that "gets it". I think I'll look into that.


Thanks for all the info and ideas all. I spoke with the boys at North and some other dinghy sailor buddies in SoCal and I think I may be leaning heavy on the snipe. But with that comes MBYC members the boat, sails, etc...so we should be able to pull the trigger in a month or two (just in time for the wind to die out..haha)

#31 Bulbhunter

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:46 AM


Oldskool,

I was thinking about a V-15 a couple of years ago and I talked it over with Jeff Johnson, the Sailing Director at SDYC (222-1103). Jeff had nothing bad to say about the boat but he doubted it would gain traction with the command the Snipe fleet has in the area. I think he called it exactly right. You might see if he has any ideas or maybe call John Fretwell, the Junior Director over there.

I ended up buying a Laser and never looked back but now I'm definitely in the market for something to take grandkids out on and maybe have a little fun by myself. Remembering Jeff's words of wisdom, I contacted the Raider manufacturer about a local dealer committed to building a fleet and was kind of turned off by their lack of enthusiasm. I think it's a neat boat but you could end up with the only one in SD. I also like the looks of that little Vago and West Coast Sailing looks like a distributor that "gets it". I think I'll look into that.


Thanks for all the info and ideas all. I spoke with the boys at North and some other dinghy sailor buddies in SoCal and I think I may be leaning heavy on the snipe. But with that comes MBYC members the boat, sails, etc...so we should be able to pull the trigger in a month or two (just in time for the wind to die out..haha)


Well a Snipe is FAR FAR cheaper than 10-15K and the last time I raced one out by the Coronado Bridge in the south bay it was a full on pain fest and the bruises from hiking that bitch of a boat lasted for months. Good luck with that!

#32 Steam Flyer

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:10 PM

... ...
... last time I raced one out by the Coronado Bridge in the south bay it was a full on pain fest and the bruises from hiking that bitch of a boat lasted for months. Good luck with that!


Your lips are saying 'Snipe' but everyone is hearing 'Thistle'

:lol:
:lol:
:blink:

FB- Doug

#33 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:16 PM

F-18?

#34 oldskool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:41 PM

F-18?


That was actually one of my first picks (of Hobie Tiger), but my wife has a offshore keelboat history and has ZERO ambition to sail cats.

#35 oldskool

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:42 PM


... ...
... last time I raced one out by the Coronado Bridge in the south bay it was a full on pain fest and the bruises from hiking that bitch of a boat lasted for months. Good luck with that!


Your lips are saying 'Snipe' but everyone is hearing 'Thistle'

:lol:
:lol:
:blink:

FB- Doug


Snipes hurt less than J24's. You must have been doing it wrong..hahaha :lol:

#36 trenace

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:51 PM


F-18?


That was actually one of my first picks (of Hobie Tiger), but my wife has a offshore keelboat history and has ZERO ambition to sail cats.


My wife hated cats, till she saw the Marstrom M32.

Partly it was an appearance issue, she just didn't like the look of most cats, but that gave me the inspiration that another factor is that she just doesn't like trapezing. I've never gotten her to even consider it, which is odd to me because she's very athletic, but there's nothing to be done about it.

I am thinking that maybe Hobie 18SX or Magnum wings onto an F18 might do the trick for wife appeal, both in her case and perhaps with your wife:

Posted Image

#37 Lido Guy

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:28 PM

[
Thanks for all the info and ideas all. I spoke with the boys at North and some other dinghy sailor buddies in SoCal and I think I may be leaning heavy on the snipe. But with that comes MBYC members the boat, sails, etc...so we should be able to pull the trigger in a month or two (just in time for the wind to die out..haha)


Seems like there is a little bit of "mission creep" going on here... started out with an A-sail that can sail in Sportboat regattas and now considering a Snipe. :)

If you are considering MBYC maybe you should think about the Lido 14 or the Santana 20. Haven't raced dinghies (Lidos, Finns) since I got my big boat, but there used to be pretty good fleets for both at MBYC.

Since you are in North County, there is an active Lido fleet at Oceanside Harbor that races one weekend a month in the spring, fall and winter and every Thrusday night in the smmer. http://sites.google....4oceanside/home

The new style (6000 series) Lido is much more family friendly than the old ones, since it has a much more comfortable cockpit. It is also very easy to trailer. I haven't race my Lido for a few years, but my grandson is now 4 so we will be out there fairly soon. :) :) :)

#38 Bulbhunter

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:44 PM


... ...
... last time I raced one out by the Coronado Bridge in the south bay it was a full on pain fest and the bruises from hiking that bitch of a boat lasted for months. Good luck with that!


Your lips are saying 'Snipe' but everyone is hearing 'Thistle'

:lol:
:lol:
:blink:

FB- Doug


Doug I took the Snipe challenge and figured it couldn't be as bad as the J/24 or the Thistle - I was wrong just as painful just in a different way and slower. For the life of me I have no idea how women Today with such great alternatives get talked into crewing on those ancient uncomfortable beasts. Heck I'd take an FJ over a snipe at least your crew has more room to move and two larger adults won't have the boat going under waves in the south bay chop vs over them LOL. My wife sailed a Snipe three times she's super competitive on the water and short of burning the snipes at the club won't go near them hates them something wicked. Can't blame her LOL

I would go Lido 14 ANY day before I ever would own a Snipe. Screw the fleet racing if your pissed - sore and not wanting to go out again its the wrong boat and everyone I know that has spent time on the Snipe and sails a bunch would rather go for a bike ride than sail the snipe these days. LOL

#39 jrpytlak

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:21 AM

JK! Get a Thistle. We can race it, and you can take the fam out for day sails.....

#40 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 05:40 AM


although LIGHTER than a number of 'dock-worthy' U.S. large dinghies

the i550 !! !!

ticks all the boxes ?


If you build me one....haha good idea though. Are there any in SoCal?

18 in Cal

cali i550s

#41 Timbo

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 07:56 AM



although LIGHTER than a number of 'dock-worthy' U.S. large dinghies

the i550 !! !!

ticks all the boxes ?


If you build me one....haha good idea though. Are there any in SoCal?

18 in Cal

cali i550s

Yes, lots of dreams in Cali..... I'm even on that list.. :)

#42 oldskool

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 06:45 PM

So I've been doing way too much research (sitting on my ass on hydrocodone doing nothing because I just got 3 of my wisdom teeth out yesterday :blink: ) and it looks like I wouldn't be able to sail class events in a Snipe because of the weight issue. Can a Snipe be sailed with about 400 (if we brought our daughter for a mellow regatta) for racing? I know it will sail, but if you're overweight there's too many advantages and disadvantages when racing depending on conditions.

If this is a family thing, maybe I should be leaning in a different direction. Just really didn't want to have to keep a boat in the water (like a J22 or J24)...Maybe I'll start looking more into Vipers.

What about lightnings?

Thanks

#43 Rolfe'd

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Posted 04 February 2012 - 07:18 PM

VX is looking pretty good and getting a lot of attention:

http://vxonedesignracing.com/vxodr/

Not super tweaky, self-tacking jib, comfy hiking, clean layout and it's fast.

#44 Vernon Green

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 12:26 AM

If you start looking at keel boats in San diego. Check out the Santana 20! Sweet little boat that isn't very expensive. Great fleet there in SD, and alot of fun.

No lift keel which is a bummer so you have to ramp or hoist launch but that isn't bad. We do both on a biweekly basis, it is easy and I really think you would enjoy the boat. No weight problems, can be double handed easily, kid can go below and take a nap if wanted.

#45 oldskool

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 03:06 AM

If you start looking at keel boats in San diego. Check out the Santana 20! Sweet little boat that isn't very expensive. Great fleet there in SD, and alot of fun.

No lift keel which is a bummer so you have to ramp or hoist launch but that isn't bad. We do both on a biweekly basis, it is easy and I really think you would enjoy the boat. No weight problems, can be double handed easily, kid can go below and take a nap if wanted.


We were down at MBYC today and saw a few of them. Interesting boats. I saw a couple on the for sale board that said "new decks". Does that mean they may have buddy carrol syndrome?

This thread may go in a direction that doesn't work for the dinghy forum from here on out.....sorry

I'm leaning on a J24 or J22 if I can find one. Where would a better place to keep it be so we could race in the fleet?- Mission Bay or Harbor/Shelter Island?

FWW- I love the VX, but it blows the budget for what we're trying to get together.

Thanks

#46 Vernon Green

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Posted 05 February 2012 - 03:25 AM


If you start looking at keel boats in San diego. Check out the Santana 20! Sweet little boat that isn't very expensive. Great fleet there in SD, and alot of fun.

No lift keel which is a bummer so you have to ramp or hoist launch but that isn't bad. We do both on a biweekly basis, it is easy and I really think you would enjoy the boat. No weight problems, can be double handed easily, kid can go below and take a nap if wanted.


We were down at MBYC today and saw a few of them. Interesting boats. I saw a couple on the for sale board that said "new decks". Does that mean they may have buddy carrol syndrome?

This thread may go in a direction that doesn't work for the dinghy forum from here on out.....sorry

I'm leaning on a J24 or J22 if I can find one. Where would a better place to keep it be so we could race in the fleet?- Mission Bay or Harbor/Shelter Island?

FWW- I love the VX, but it blows the budget for what we're trying to get together.

Thanks


The "new deck" signs means that it has the retrofit new style deck onto an old hull. In the late 90's the builder came out with a new style deck from the factory. They build about 35 boats with the new style deck but sold about another 50 decks, they put some of them on old hulls and other people around the country put some on old hulls.

The new deck is nice, with rolled side tanks and an open transom. Really improves the ergonomics of the cockpit. Not that the old deck is horrible but the new ones are really nice.

The Santana 20 is very similar to a J22, slightly less stable and more dinghy like than either of the J's. Fun little boat that won't break the budget at all. I know of a retrofit 20 in San Diego that you could be in for 3K, that is a ready to race boat that would also be a great family cruise around boat, and the open transom makes it really easy to get back onboard after a swim.

Also I could put you in touch with several local 20 sailors who would happily take you out. The people make the boat and you will not find a single bad egg in the 20 fleet. Strong class and still have great builder support from W.D. Schock company. The strong class means there are lots of used parts and sails.

If you are interested in taking a test sail I can put you in touch with someone. Shoot me a pm or an email
santana616tdg(at)gmail(dot)com

#47 leadminer

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 01:31 AM

SO many factors: cost, maintenance, storage and not the least - will you and your family enjoy sailing the boat and want to go often?

I've sailed the RS Vision, nice boat, easy to rig, comfortable for the crew, and with gennaker planes in about 12 knots of breeze - it won't scream like a Viper, but also keeps you in the $10k range. Rotomolded hull construction is pretty much becoming standard for new recreational dinghies.

UCLA Marine Aquatics Center has a fleet of Visions, you might check with them.

Sail as many boats as you can before you decide!

Found a couple of videos, the second one about a minute in starts to get exciting.


Vision in light air

Vision planing



Thanks Guys. The only reason I'm thinking Dinghy is that I really don't want to keep a boat in the water and I'm not going to bu a new car to tow around something with a keel.

I really like the idea of a Viper, but I'm not sure I could find one worth buying in my price range. What about Vanguard 15's? I know it doesn't have a kite, but do people sail them out her in SD? Laser is not really an option for us.

Sounds like the Nomad is a dud. Are there any boats simillar to that and the RS Vision?

Thanks



#48 Mr. Swordfish

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 08:00 PM

Lot's of good suggestions upthread. It sounds like you want something that's roomy enough for three adults (your daughter is only going to get bigger), has some level of performance, and is small enough that it's not a pain in the ass to trailer.

I think the RS Vision meets this criteria, although it might be a bit on the slow side for what you're looking at. What boats are entered in these "sportboat regattas" of which you speak? I was favorably impressed with the RS Vision, but don't expect it to keep up with anything as fast as a Snipe. (yes, I know that this is not terribly fast.)

The CL-16 / Wayfarer is in a similar category - roomy, sails reasonably well, but somewhat of a slowpoke.

I'd give a good look at the V15, especially if there's a fleet near you.

My plug would be for an Albacore - room for four, easy to launch & trailer, faster round the buoys than the above-mentioned boats, but finding one in SD is probably unlikely.

I liked the Snipe, but the idea of three aboard a Snipe is a non-starter. The cockpit is just way too small.

I can't say I would recommend a Tasar for your use - it's very tippy and will capsize if left unattended (say, tied to the dock), and I can't see three people in one. If you're looking for that level of thrill, I'd say look at the 505 - roomy, sails very well, small enough to trailer easily. The downside is that you'd be looking at the used market in your price range.

Anyway, that's my $.02

#49 Steam Flyer

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:57 PM

Lot's of good suggestions upthread. It sounds like you want something that's roomy enough for three adults (your daughter is only going to get bigger), has some level of performance, and is small enough that it's not a pain in the ass to trailer.

I think the RS Vision meets this criteria, although it might be a bit on the slow side for what you're looking at. What boats are entered in these "sportboat regattas" of which you speak? I was favorably impressed with the RS Vision, but don't expect it to keep up with anything as fast as a Snipe. (yes, I know that this is not terribly fast.)

The CL-16 / Wayfarer is in a similar category - roomy, sails reasonably well, but somewhat of a slowpoke.

I'd give a good look at the V15, especially if there's a fleet near you.

My plug would be for an Albacore - room for four, easy to launch & trailer, faster round the buoys than the above-mentioned boats, but finding one in SD is probably unlikely.

I liked the Snipe, but the idea of three aboard a Snipe is a non-starter. The cockpit is just way too small.

I can't say I would recommend a Tasar for your use - it's very tippy and will capsize if left unattended (say, tied to the dock), and I can't see three people in one. If you're looking for that level of thrill, I'd say look at the 505 - roomy, sails very well, small enough to trailer easily. The downside is that you'd be looking at the used market in your price range.

Anyway, that's my $.02


The V15 might be kinda small for 3, wet too... doesn't have much freeboard although the cockpit is nice & uncluttered.

I have a hard time believing the Vision is slow, so I took a look at the RYA handicaps. Generally they administer the PY system -much- better than USSA handles the Portsmouth handicaps, most of which have not been updated in decades. Politics aside:

Lower = faster

Albacore = 1064
Laser = 1082
505 = 902
Finn = 1060
Lark = 1073
Tasar = 1023
420 = 1087
Fireball= 980
470 = 973
Laser 2 = 1035
Laser Bahia= 1079
RS Vision = 1085
RS Feva = 1280
RS Feva XL = 1200

I think this is the plain-sails RS Vision not the square-top + big spinny, partly due to the fact that I also looked at some regatta photos and that's what it showed, and the fact tht the RS Feva is listed in a plain-sails and the XL or PRO version. The big sails would give the Vision quite a boost especially in light air, although it still wouldn't make it a match for the 470.

Apparently nobody is racing Snipes or Vanguard 15s on handicap in the UK. I tried to pick some boats off the list that we are familiar with over here in the colonies
:rolleyes:

FB- Doug

#50 Bulbhunter

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:25 AM

The Vision is a larger version of the Feva which I have for solo adult goofing off or small child with dad running up and down the shore line on a camping trip etc. The Vision is more along the lines of the small family fun hauler which might actually fit the bill. The rotomolded hulls are interesting and do have a bit of a structure to them so its not like your getting a cheap plastic kayak thats soft and flimsy.

If your thinking something large enough to serve as a picnic boat then your options are more along the lines of the Lightning which we have a revival happening up in the Bay Area. I've always liked them good family boat that races well and doubles as a good picnic and go explore the lake type boat and easily hauled and stored at home etc. Their prices have jumped a little due to the revival but still a good boat to have on the list.

The Viper is out of your price range but for 3 up socal light air warm water family fun the Viper pretty much sets the standard regarding pegging the fun meter working well for a small family and being ultra easy to tow with a small family wagon etc. Really is a tough package to ignore when it comes to that type of use and purpose.

#51 Bulbhunter

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 12:30 AM

As for your question about the snipe and the weight. LOL I think we were 190lbs in the back and 160lbs in the front and the snipe was going through the bottom of the waves while the lighter crews were going over the waves. We looked liked two big guys that stole a Jr's boat and were trying to fit in while we got away with the boat. LOL after that trip the owner sold it his comment was No way in hell is my wife going to sail with me in that thing and swamping the boat going under every way is not fast LOL. Avoid the Snipe its two small adults who have a high tolerance for pain and like to be packed into tight places.

#52 F18 VB

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:26 AM


F-18?

That was actually one of my first picks (of Hobie Tiger), but my wife has a offshore keelboat history and has ZERO ambition to sail cats.

F18's are a lot of fun in Mission Bay and there is a good sized fleet of friendly F18 sailors at MBYC. If you ever want to sail out to the ocean, nothing will get you there faster. You and the wife should at least stop by and talk to a few F18 guys at the SD NOOD this March before letting her say that she will never sail a catamaran. They will be on the lawn next to the MBYC club house.

#53 Cavandish

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 06:11 AM

Buccaneer 18, more space and faster than a snipe, more comfortable than a Thistle. Light enough to trailer with just about anything, (most?) have easily stepped masts, roller furling jibs and spin chutes. The Portsmouth handicap is 87.0, so by no means a very high performance boat, but sailing to that certainly seems easier than a few others.

#54 Steam Flyer

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 01:40 PM

Buccaneer 18, more space and faster than a snipe, more comfortable than a Thistle...


Hanging by your hair while goons beat your kidneys with truncheons is more comfortable than a Thistle.

Can you think of a something a little more positive?
:rolleyes:

FB- Doug

#55 Mr. Swordfish

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 04:37 PM

The V15 might be kinda small for 3, wet too... doesn't have much freeboard although the cockpit is nice & uncluttered.


No argument there. It's wet, and has little freeboard. But the cockpit is large and uncluttered (no centerboard trunk) so three people will fit easily if they don't mind being close. Compared to something like a Snipe, 470, Fireball, Laser Vago, etc three in a V15 is spacious.

It's not my first recommendation, but if there's a fleet of them nearby and racing is a priority it might fit the bill.

I have a hard time believing the Vision is slow, so I took a look at the RYA handicaps.


It's not dog slow, but it's at the lower end of similarly sized boats, which is reflected in the PY numbers you posted - it's PY is nearly identical to the 420 which is hardly known as a speed demon. When we demoed it we put it out on the course with the usual JYs, Lasers, Albacores, etc and it couldn't hang with the fleet upwind. On the reach legs the assy spin helped a bit, but it couldn't close the gap. My take is that if you get the spin version and spend a lot of time blasting around on reaches the "slowness" won't be an issue. But if you're looking for 505 or FD performance levels or you're trying to race it round-the-buoys where upwind performance wins races, look elsewhere.

I'm not trying to rag on the Vision - I think it's a good option, I just wanted to put a realistic assessment of it's performance out there.

#56 notallthere

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Posted 10 February 2012 - 05:22 PM

There is an active Victory fleet @ MBYC (super slow though...)

Solings are kinda pulling it back together as well.

The Santana 20 might work too.

I would not sail 3 up in the Snipe, but they are not nearly as uncomfortable as U20 says!

#57 blurocketsmate

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 12:43 AM

If you are sailing at Mission Basy / SoCal you should really look at Thistle fleet. Super active in your area, great racing and fun people. Another "old skool" suggestion would be Lido 14, but no spinnaker so not as attractive.


+1

Newer boats may be more exciting but these are still the best fleets. Really cheap to buy too. Don't dis the Lido 'til you've raced in a Lido fleet (and most likely gotten your ass kicked).

Put yourself out there to crew in a few fleets, and see which one you like. The boat itself is secondary.

#58 RedTuna

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Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:30 PM

From the mythical front page



#59 ortegakid

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 02:34 AM

Great stuff Red!, looks like fun!

#60 Vernon Green

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:54 AM

There is an active Victory fleet @ MBYC (super slow though...)

Solings are kinda pulling it back together as well.

The Santana 20 might work too.

I would not sail 3 up in the Snipe, but they are not nearly as uncomfortable as U20 says!



I put him in contact with the local Santana 20 guys! Hope it works out. I really think for his needs/wants it is a pretty close fit.

A big part of what boat to get it what group of people you fit in with. The 20 guys are a great group of guys so lets hope it goes well for them.




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