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Group Finot and Gate's lines drawing


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#1 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:38 AM

Ok, I had high school French. I like French wines. I like French cheese and I like Francis Cabral.

But I do not like it when Groupe Finot wants to charge Gate 200 euro whatevers for a set of lines so he can build a half model

Excuse me please but I am pissed. Pissed I tell you. Pissed!

I charge $25 to a model maker for a set of lines. 25 fucking dollars!
The model maker is probably charging $300 to $500 for the fuxcking half model and the design office wants $200 ( eaurowhatevers) for the emailed file.

Well, excuse fucking me.

I am so angry. I do angry really good these days.
I need some back up on this. We need to marshal our vast forces of the WLYDO.

I am not anti French. I am anti dip shit.

#2 PNW Matt B

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:44 AM

200 euro is $264.25 US. Or $264.81 CAN.

That does seem a trifle high. Perhaps if we challenge them with the combined might of WLYDO, they'll surrender. (Okay, that was a cheap shot.)

Is it possible there's a translation difficulty here, where they think he's asking for more than just the lines?

#3 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:48 AM

Matt:
No. I made it very clear . We want a simple set of lines for a half model.

How do you say "fuckheads" in French?

I work with model builders all the time. ALL THE TIME. I know how this works.
I do not try to make money off a model builder. I try to help them.

#4 wick

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:52 AM

Any way to get the boat owner involved? Through his dealer?

They are dip shits!

#5 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:56 AM

Holy crap I've created an international incident Posted Image


Good on ya Bob. Defend the noble art that is yacht design. Expose the assholes for what they are!!

#6 pogen

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:56 AM

Yes I am having a major rage-a-thon going recently, put my fist through the living room wall yesterday and everything. Chirst how it all sucks donkey balls and beyond.

#7 pogen

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:58 AM

Wait, is this the free-form rage thread, or a specifically anti-Finot thread?

#8 Anomaly2

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:58 AM

How do you say "fuckheads" in French?


Bob, try "fucktards"... its not French, but it sounds better (than fuckheads) in a phony French accent....

#9 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:09 AM

Pogs:
Yes. This is an anti Groupe Finot thread. I want an international incidfent.
Fucktards!

A bunch of numbnuts blasing around the world in trimaran and they think they can charge 200 euros for a print of a shitty design.

All I ask is that they help Gate out like any self respectig design office would.
You don't make a living out of selling prints to meodel makers.

#10 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:09 AM

Just to re-enforce Bob's point ... when I did ECHO, Bob gave me a contact name for a nice guy at Hinckley. They sent me the basic hull lines no charge, and even couriered them to me.

" I just talked to Bob Perry about this boat...glad to do it. The quality isn't great because the drawings are quite old, but they should be all you need".

They were more than I needed, and quite artistic as well.

(the score)

Hinckley 1 - Group Finot 0

#11 wick

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:10 AM

How do you say "fuckheads" in French?


My friend Yvon in Quebec suggests tete de noix / ou enfoire / ou con

I shouldn't translate them all here. Google is your friend.




#12 Recidivist

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:11 AM

Bruce Farr gave - free of charge - the F40 OD lines plans to a guy I know to build a model. "Just please don't build a full-size boat". He did a good job. I have the model, deck and hull still need bonding ...

#13 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:15 AM

Where is Greevs? We need the Enforcement Divuision of the WLYDO on this.
Some one needs to bump one of those poncey guys off their motor scooters and get themn back in the office.

Is "poncy" with out an "e" or is it "poncey"?

Greevs!
Greevs!

#14 basketcase

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:18 AM

combien d'argent pour votre abruti ?

#15 Cavelamb

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:35 AM

combien d'argent pour votre abruti ?


Deux cents d'euros, s'il vous plaît, bien sûr.

#16 savoir

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:41 AM

La plume de ma tante est sur le table ?

:blink:

#17 Anomaly2

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:49 AM

(the score)

Hinckley 1 - Group FUCKTARD 0


Fixed it for you....

#18 Anomaly2

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:52 AM

I want an international incidfent.


OK Bob, you've got the hang of the "Fucktards!" thing. I think your accent was just right. Next, you(we) fart in their general direction. If that doesn't work you(we) taunt them again.....

#19 basketcase

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:54 AM

La plume de ma tante est sur le table ?

:blink:

Is the feather of my aunt on the table?

#20 basketcase

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:57 AM


La plume de ma tante est sur le table ?

:blink:

Is the feather of my aunt on the table?

and mine should have ended with 't'encule'

#21 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:03 AM

Listen, if you want to push me I can do a perfcet French "r" I have a gift/skill with languages. Don't ask me how I just have it. I hear it. I do it. It comes easy to me.
I just don't like making those shapes with my lips when people are watching.

Everytime I do it my pup tries to lick my face.

No telling where that mouth has been.
I love her anyway.

I need to go watch a Danish movie.
Seriously now. Find THE MAN WHO CAME HOME. It's one of the very best flicks I have ever seen. Of course you have to speak Danish or you'll be bannished to the sub titles.
Like I was.

#22 boatlessinohio

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:06 AM

tętes baiser

Matt:
No. I made it very clear . We want a simple set of lines for a half model.

How do you say "fuckheads" in French?

I work with model builders all the time. ALL THE TIME. I know how this works.
I do not try to make money off a model builder. I try to help them.



#23 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:13 AM

"d'oiseau et don la fenetre"We in canada are proud to be bilingual!!

(10 years of school French and that's I can can say)


#24 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:17 AM

Fuck that. And furthermore I'm not sure I follow your French. "fenetre". I know "window" when I hear it. I have a gift.
Give me the damn lines drawing.
Here's $25 for the email.
Translate that.

#25 Ishmael

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:20 AM

Attached File  gf.JPG   137.74K   104 downloads

#26 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:20 AM

Don't get me started.

#27 blackbird

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:30 AM

There are US designers who want a model in return for a set of lines. (initials R/P) in the past I've offered them a model as a thanks, as I have with most designers who are good enough to share their work with me. But a model for every set of lines--especially when it's a one-off? That's at least $700!

French companies, like Beneteau, won't release their lines at all. Too bad, that means their owners don't have a model on the wall of their office and tell all their business acquaintances about this great boat they own.

I'm just grateful there are designers like Bob Perry, Al johnstone, Bruce Farr and others who are generous with their work and allow me to stay in business.

#28 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:41 AM

Black:
Thanks or that. I try to work with model mskers. Goid knows I'm not Mr. nice Guy. But I have respect for the guys who build models and yes, sometimes I evem get a model for thanks. And I like that.
I have no fear in sending out my hull lines to model makers.

We need an all out assault on Groupe Finot so we can help Gate.

#29 kdh

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:54 AM

"d'oiseau et don la fenetre" We in canada are proud to be bilingual!!

(10 years of school French and that's I can can say)

My mother speaks Quebecois French and she would tell them to mange la merde, or eat shit.

#30 tigerregis

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:05 AM

Baisse mon cul, chalice de fuckstick. a M. Finot et al.

#31 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:10 AM

kdh:
Even I got that one. Kudos to your mother. My kind of gal.

I need some momentum here so tomorrow when I contact Groupe Finot they have something to see on CA.

It is high time we unleashed the power of the WLYDO.

Tiger:
I did not get all that. I did get the "fuckstick" part though. I have a gift with languages.

#32 Soņadora

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:50 AM

mailto:jeanmarie29@finot.com

mailto:pconq@finot.com


Spams away! :ph34r:

#33 Anomaly2

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:54 AM

mailto:jeanmarie29@finot.com

mailto:pconq@finot.com
Spams away! :ph34r:


I think Ish's poster would be a nice opening salvo.....

#34 Paps

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:22 AM

Sacre Bleu Bruce!!

First the A bombs in the Pacific, then the Rainbow Warrior and now this!!!!!!

Its war I say, the WYLDO will not rest until they submit!!!!!

No French Fries for anyone until further notice.............................

#35 highndry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 10:14 AM

you people just don't have any idea of the fixed cost element of their design office overheads

wine, cheese, gauloises, absinthe





................ maybe even hookers and blow !






at least in Bob's office, anything that goes on the floor gets cleaned up by the dog !!!

#36 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 12:11 PM

"the French have a different word for everything"

Steve Martin

Bob

If it helps we beat the French over the season series ...Boat on boat (33 vs 33) Bob's 30 year old design did herself proud by besting the Finot boat....but the owner is a really nice guy so I'll gladly do the half hull no matter the attitude of Finot.


#37 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:09 PM

Gate:
I know you will and good on ya for that. You can eyeball it.

In all fairness to Groupe Finot, if they work entirely in 3D and go straight to cutting machines then they have no need for a 2D set of lines. I still like to have them as I have used the 2D reference points for comparison for the last 50 years. I would not feel the design was complete until I had a 2D lines drawing.

#38 Poda

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 01:33 PM

I'm looking at roughly the same amount for the drawings I want from the Farr office. And they don't have the actual line drawings :( Hoping the layup drawings will substitute well enough..

#39 bljones

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:14 PM

Fucking vichy surrender-monkeys. What a bunch of fucknuckles.

"Non non, we, uhhh, 'ow you say, pray-fer dat you note eee-mort-hal-ize our superieur naval design in Nort Amairuhcaine wood."

Bob says just fuckin' blow me, Depardieu.

#40 Soņadora

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:22 PM

Gate:
I know you will and good on ya for that. You can eyeball it.

In all fairness to Groupe Finot, if they work entirely in 3D and go straight to cutting machines then they have no need for a 2D set of lines. I still like to have them as I have used the 2D reference points for comparison for the last 50 years. I would not feel the design was complete until I had a 2D lines drawing.



If they do 3D, that's even less of an excuse to not provide 2D lines plan. Most likely, Finot is using another snooty French product called Catia. And I would bet you could push a button and that software will make 2D lines, fry a crepe, and raise a white flag before you can say "I fart in your general direction."

awww...there I go again.

#41 SemiSalt

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:24 PM

Stiffing the model makers is like saying "Don't advertise my product. Don't tell anyone about my product."

God knows I'm not Mr. nice Guy.


I think of you as Mr. Nice Enough Guy.

#42 finot-conq architectes

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:37 PM

Well Bob, it was certainly not our intention get you in such a rage !
But since you brought this to a public place, we feel obliged to respond publicly.

Let me give you guys a little hindsight on this whole subject, from our perspective, since Bob, as a professional, probably already knows all this :

- finot-conq architectes is just 4 passionnate people working their asses off to get out 2 to 4 designs each year (each project is anywhere between 6 and 24 months, and 50 to 150 separate drawings).

- finot-conq architectes has been a separate operation from Groupe Finot for 3 years now.

- The boat we are talking about, the Beneteau Oceanis 331, was designed in 1999 by Jean-Marie Finot at Groupe Finot. The drawing process at the time was still "semi-manual". There is no actual 2D lines drawing in electronic form available. Due to the way we designed hull shapes at the time, not even the 3D is directly useable. There is probably a large format 2D lines drawing on paper in Groupe Finot's archives, but they are 500km away from our offices, they would need scanning at a specialized company, etc...In other words, the drawing just doesn't exist in a form that is useful, practical and satisfies our current standards of quality.

This is is the reason why we don't find it revolting to ask for a partial financial counterpart to the hours that we'd have to spend on this subject.
This is what Pascal Conq tried to convey to you, Bob, but obviously there's been a misunderstanding.


Sincerely,
David at finot-conq

PS : And because I know only too well that words on a screen don't carry the tone of the spech, especially when not speaking your native language, please be assured that this is written with the most sincere and respectful intent.

#43 Anomaly2

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 02:43 PM

but obviously there's been a misunderstanding.


Who's bringing the popcorn?


ou

avez-vous le pop-corn?

#44 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:14 PM

David:
Many thanks for addressing this issue. I am surprised and pleased that you took the time to do so. I totally understand and it was as I expected.
Could you direct us to where there might be a set of lines suitable for a model? Should I contact Finot-Conq?
Any help you could provide in this matter would be appreciated.

#45 finot-conq architectes

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:37 PM

Bob,

Believe me, if there was a simple solution to this, we would have proposed it already.
Your best bet at this point may be to check with Beneteau, but I wouldn't expect too much.

You'd expect the opposite, but computer technologies have advanced so much in the recent years, that legacy information is only getting harder to recover and/or exchange.

And imagine when people ask us about boats that were designed before I was even born ! ;-)

OK, gotta get back to that FEA study of the keel structure for our new 100 footer.
Sorry for not being (able to be) of more help.

David

#46 bljones

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:41 PM

Seriously, David, you guys don't have framed drawings on your "wall of fame" to impress clients? Walk over, take a picture, email it, done.

#47 Soņadora

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:45 PM

wow

when CA talks, people listen!

David, thank you for your input.

As passionate as your group is about your work, we here at CA are passionate about our, well, passion for all things sailing.

We're also very passionate about our traditional welcome. ;)

#48 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:46 PM

David:
I have already thought of contacting Beneteau North America but I suspect they will not be able to provide the drawing either. Thanks for at least filling us in.

I have a big stack of files for storing rolled drawings I did by hand many years ago. They are a PITA to work with but I keep them all available for moments like this when a guy wants to build a model or just have the original deck plan for his boat. I think it is my responsibility as the designer to have these drawings available. But I am just a guy in Seattle so maybe I am a bit strange that way.

Enjoy working on the FEA of the 100'er.
I have to go too.
My dogs need a walk. I'll do a FEA on what I pick up after them.

This is a reminder that the WLYDO is a force to be reckoned with.

#49 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:48 PM

Seriously, David, you guys don't have framed drawings on your "wall of fame" to impress clients? Walk over, take a picture, email it, done.


Seemed like a pretty complete explanation. Having spent hundreds of hours searching for old documents in my previous life, sounds fair, too.

As much as I love France and the French sailing scene, it's not really a 'customer service' kind of nation.

#50 WHL

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 03:51 PM

Importing into CAD, and scale and trace some decent pics taken of the profile, the bow looking aft and stern looking forward, and an overhead deck plan (one is available on the Bendytoy website), a set of reasonable lines could be drawn that come close to the real thing. Alternatively rent a 3D laser scanner and reverse engineer the lines while the boat is out of the water !!!

According to the Beneteau marketing blurb, the boat was drawn based on "sophisticated and traditional lines" so that's simple Gate... find a sophisticated set of traditional lines. :D
Attached File  tensiometre.jpg   212.45K   44 downloads

#51 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:07 PM

Importing into CAD, and scale and trace some decent pics taken of the profile, the bow looking aft and stern looking forward, and an overhead deck plan (one is available on the Bendytoy website), a set of reasonable lines could be drawn that come close to the real thing. Alternatively rent a 3D laser scanner and reverse engineer the lines while the boat is out of the water !!!
Attached File  tensiometre.jpg   212.45K   44 downloads


I could take the lines with a plumb bob and a ape measure, but the boat has a tarp tied over it. And being on a trailer I'm not 100% sure it's sitting perfectly perpendicular...


"I could have done a better job but I didn't have lines...it does kinda look like a tugboat"

...that's not going to happem. If I'm going to do this, it's going accurate. No excuses.

Not that it means much but my client bought this boat new. He won't be amused.

#52 jackdaw

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:16 PM


Seriously, David, you guys don't have framed drawings on your "wall of fame" to impress clients? Walk over, take a picture, email it, done.


Seemed like a pretty complete explanation. Having spent hundreds of hours searching for old documents in my previous life, sounds fair, too.

As much as I love France and the French sailing scene, it's not really a 'customer service' kind of nation.


Sigh. Too true. And a LOT is lost in translation. My sense is he is genuinely trying to be helpful.

Guess I'll back-burner my thoughts of having Gate whip up a half-hull of our little First 260.....

#53 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:26 PM

No question David was trying to be helpful. I am a true admirer of Groupe Finot's work and I have always been a fan of Mr. Finot's work going back to REVOLUTION in the early 70's. This does not change that at all. I still like a big, full Burgundy and I'll continue to play my Francis Cabrel cd's even if I can't understand a word. They are extremely well crafted cd's and show off my hi-fi very well.

I had no idea why there was a Finot-Conq and a Groupe Finot. Now I know.

I also know now that my big file stack of rolled drawings is not just a "big pile of archives" it's my "legacy" files. I like that.

#54 Jose Carumba

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:33 PM

We have drawings dating back to the '80s and beyond. When someone wants a print of a particular drawing we need to find the drawing in question, send an original vellum to the printers or send a print to be scanned, then mail it out. It generally takes a couple of hours of our time plus the printing and mailing costs. Add in the time necessary to coordinate with another office and I can understand why they are charging what they do. If the CAD data is available, and the recipient has the means to print the drawing we will send it electronically for no charge since it takes little time or effort.

#55 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 04:49 PM

Jose:
I hear you. I am happy to email a file for nothing. But if the client needs prints I have to find the drawing, drive to the printers (I tossed my print machine when I moved.) Then I have to drive to the UPS store, another 30 minute drive, buy a tube and pay for postage. There was a time when postage was next to nothing but today it's a "holy shit" moment. If I charge $50 for a print I lose money in most cases. But I do feel a responsability to provide the drawings.

One guy flinched when he came to my office and demanded a set of lines immediately and I told him $25. I thought it over then told him, "Fine you go and find the drawings somewhere else and maybe you can get a print cheaper."

But considering that as of today they are "legacy" drawings I may have to raise my fees for prints.

#56 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:01 PM

No question David was trying to be helpful. I am a true admirer of Groupe Finot's work and I have always been a fan of Mr. Finot's work going back to REVOLUTION in the early 70's. This does not change that at all. I still like a big, full Burgundy and I'll continue to play my Francis Cabrel cd's even if I can't understand a word. They are extremely well crafted cd's and show off my hi-fi very well.

I had no idea why there was a Finot-Conq and a Groupe Finot. Now I know.

I also know now that my big file stack of rolled drawings is not just a "big pile of archives" it's my "legacy" files. I like that.


Good gift for Bob's next birthday:

A plaque to put on the wall behind the piles of old plans that reads "Legacy File System"

#57 Salazar

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:26 PM

Topic: Hull Lines for a C&C 37/40 or why designing sail boats on computers may not be best for posterity.

Hull lines. Not the easiest thing to get your hands on.

My wife and I own a C&C 37 XL, hull # 67, built in 1990. I'd really like to get my hands on a set of hull lines for this design.
Why? Because I'd like to see them. Perhaps I'll run a set off on a plotter and put them on my wall. I may eventually set up a website about the C&C 37R and 37+ (in my opinion one of the best boats produced by C&C. I admit, I am biased.) with various resources for posterity. Perhaps, one day, I'll build a half hull (or ask Gatekeeper to).
As you may know, the 37XL shares the same hull as the C&C 37+ and the 37R. These boats were later know as the 37/40 series and later still as the 40 series ( 40+, 40XL and 40R ). This hull was in production from 1988 to 1994.
You'd think, as there were over 100 or so of these built, there would be hull lines out there somewhere? If there are I can't find them. And I have searched.

I've called the designer, Rob Ball. Real nice guy, but unfortunately, no, he doesn't have lines for this hull. He used to have an old beat up set around but doesn't have them anymore.


A quote from an email from Rob: "There was never a ‘formal’ lines drawing for the 37 (with a border and title) so the one printed copy that I am aware of, is surely gone."


The 37 was designed on computer and those machines are all gone. Once the mold was built there was no reason to have drawings, the files were all in the computers but the factory and molds burnt down in April of 1994. Rob does have a half hull of the 37/40 so there may be a model maker out there somewhere with a set of lines...
I've checked with Rob MacLachlan (formerly C&C's sales manager, service & warranty manager) at South Shore Yachts but he doesn't have any.
I emailed Rob Mazza as well, but nothing.
I've been in contact with the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes, Kingston, Ontario, which is where all surviving C&C drawings are now archived and while they were able to send me pdf's copies of a number of drawings for the 37 (such as the ones you may have seen me post in other threads), there were no hull lines for this hull they could find.
Yes, I own one of these boats so I suppose I could reverse loft the lines off my hull but I have no idea how to do that, assuming it can be done. I have a few ideas, mostly concerning a laser level and a camera and PhotoShop but it seems like a lot of work for something that is probably out there somewhere. No, I don't know how to use CAD as that would probably make it easier.
Anyone out there got a set hidden away?
Bob, take care of those "Legacy Files". You owe it to posterity. Posted Image

#58 Jose Carumba

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:45 PM

Topic: Hull Lines for a C&C 37/40 or why designing sail boats on computers may not be best for posterity.

Hull lines. Not the easiest thing to get your hands on.

My wife and I own a C&C 37 XL, hull # 67, built in 1990. I'd really like to get my hands on a set of hull lines for this design.
Why? Because I'd like to see them. Perhaps I'll run a set off on a plotter and put them on my wall. I may eventually set up a website about the C&C 37R and 37+ (in my opinion one of the best boats produced by C&C. I admit, I am biased.) with various resources for posterity. Perhaps, one day, I'll build a half hull (or ask Gatekeeper to).
As you may know, the 37XL shares the same hull as the C&C 37+ and the 37R. These boats were later know as the 37/40 series and later still as the 40 series ( 40+, 40XL and 40R ). This hull was in production from 1988 to 1994.
You'd think, as there were over 100 or so of these built, there would be hull lines out there somewhere? If there are I can't find them. And I have searched.

I've called the designer, Rob Ball. Real nice guy, but unfortunately, no, he doesn't have lines for this hull. He used to have an old beat up set around but doesn't have them anymore.


A quote from an email from Rob: "There was never a 'formal' lines drawing for the 37 (with a border and title) so the one printed copy that I am aware of, is surely gone."


The 37 was designed on computer and those machines are all gone. Once the mold was built there was no reason to have drawings, the files were all in the computers but the factory and molds burnt down in April of 1994. Rob does have a half hull of the 37/40 so there may be a model maker out there somewhere with a set of lines...
I've checked with Rob MacLachlan (formerly C&C's sales manager, service & warranty manager) at South Shore Yachts but he doesn't have any.
I emailed Rob Mazza as well, but nothing.
I've been in contact with the Marine Museum of the Great Lakes, Kingston, Ontario, which is where all surviving C&C drawings are now archived and while they were able to send me pdf's copies of a number of drawings for the 37 (such as the ones you may have seen me post in other threads), there were no hull lines for this hull they could find.
Yes, I own one of these boats so I suppose I could reverse loft the lines off my hull but I have no idea how to do that, assuming it can be done. I have a few ideas, mostly concerning a laser level and a camera and PhotoShop but it seems like a lot of work for something that is probably out there somewhere. No, I don't know how to use CAD as that would probably make it easier.
Anyone out there got a set hidden away?
Bob, take care of those "Legacy Files". You owe it to posterity. Posted Image


Yes Bob. You need an intern. He can take all the drawings to the printer. Then store them somewhere away from the originals (MOHAI?, Mystic?). Do the same for the electronic files.

We had fires at the family shipyard long ago and lost a huge amount of legacy data. If only...

Here at work back-ups are done regularly and stored off site. Should something catastrophic happen we could be up and running as soon as new computers could be aquired. We would lose maybe only a day or two of engineering work.

#59 PNW Matt B

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 05:59 PM

Archival storage is one of my responsibilities at my day job. (Well, okay, I'm management, I don't have any responsibilities, but my department does.) We spend gobs of money every year on it. Why? Well, suppose you were involved in a civil case six years ago and recorded a deposition. The case has been winding through the system and suddenly your deposition is relevant again. We need to be able to produce it on short notice... but it was recorded in this old software that we haven't used in four years and it's stored on archived tape using a format we haven't been able to access since the last upgrade to the backup system and...

Yeah, that happens, about once a month. Not to us, of course, to the other guys. Yeah...

It's not a priority for the boat manufacturers, generally speaking. S&S cares; C&C cares a bit, now, but hasn't in the past. I highly doubt Catalina or Hunter gives a single fuck between them. It's not actually hard to do if you're paying attention, and electronic storage actually makes it much easier - but only if someone's paying attention to the problem.

The solution, if there is one, is a community effort. Owners getting together to pool resources. Someone out there who has the lines for your hull sharing them with other owners because the owners have an interest in it. No lines exist? Someone will reverse-loft them. Someone's willing to do it but doesn't know how? Someone else will teach them a method. It's not perfect, it's inefficient in some ways, and it's only cheap in the sense that no one person or organization ends up paying the total cost. But it works.

#60 Slick470

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:11 PM

finding drawings is a common problem for owners of boats where the company that manufactured the boat and the designer are no longer with us. Unfortunatly for some, due to the age of the design and unfortunate circumstances, these drawings may not even exist anymore. :(

So tell me about this laser thingy?

#61 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:34 PM

I keep all my drawings, even the preliminaries. They are fun to look at. If you like that stuff. I can trace the evolution of a design that way. Sometimes I look mover old drawings and I marvel at the amount of work I have done over the years. I worked my ass off.
Many of the boats I designed were built by builders who are either dead or out of business. I am the last one standing in many cases and owners need me to be here when they need help.

#62 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:50 PM

finding drawings is a common problem for owners of boats where the company that manufactured the boat and the designer are no longer with us. Unfortunatly for some, due to the age of the design and unfortunate circumstances, these drawings may not even exist anymore. :(

So tell me about this laser thingy?


A Laser coordinate measurement (CMM) is a way to take a million measurements from a couple of different positions that allow you to build a "point cloud" that very closely decribes a three dimensional surface. It's a development of the coordinate measuring machines used to map a 3 dimensional surface in a lab for QA, reverse engineering, etc.

Basically you use a laser on a tripod to take a set of offsets from the hull (or airplane in my case). You resolve the millions of data points to come up with a graphic model of the surface. Take some slices through it and you have a set of line drawings.

Not romantic or sexy, but fast and accurate. Last time I needed it, it was about $1,500/day to rent the gear.

#63 WHL

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 06:58 PM

finding drawings is a common problem for owners of boats where the company that manufactured the boat and the designer are no longer with us. Unfortunatly for some, due to the age of the design and unfortunate circumstances, these drawings may not even exist anymore. :(

So tell me about this laser thingy?


Here's one company : CimCore

There are a few out there and many of the camera companies are in the 3D scanning game. Essentially, there's laser scanning, and/or a 3D digital probe on an arm, used to point the tip of the arm on an object at various key points to extract x,y,z coordinates of that point, relative to the position of the base of the arm. Many of thee solutions are for digitizing small objects but there are some companies that have products to handle large objects.

EDIT: Nice one IB... I was typing while you covered it :)

#64 SemiSalt

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:34 PM

There are a few out there and many of the camera companies are in the 3D scanning game.


Given what I've seen the past, a few man-years of Google-fu, and it could all be much easier. Put some strips of contrasting tape on the hull, not necessarily straight. Take pictures from 5 or 10 different angles, and get the computer to stitch it together.

It's one of the problems of the yacht business that the business is so small, and Google-fu is so expensive.

#65 Jose Carumba

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 07:41 PM


finding drawings is a common problem for owners of boats where the company that manufactured the boat and the designer are no longer with us. Unfortunatly for some, due to the age of the design and unfortunate circumstances, these drawings may not even exist anymore. :(

So tell me about this laser thingy?


Here's one company : CimCore

There are a few out there and many of the camera companies are in the 3D scanning game. Essentially, there's laser scanning, and/or a 3D digital probe on an arm, used to point the tip of the arm on an object at various key points to extract x,y,z coordinates of that point, relative to the position of the base of the arm. Many of thee solutions are for digitizing small objects but there are some companies that have products to handle large objects.

EDIT: Nice one IB... I was typing while you covered it :)


Yep, laser, photogrammetry, and don't forget LIDAR (LIght DetectionAnd Ranging) which is similar to the laser. We use all three. We sub out the laser and lidar work and have a photogrammetry camera and target program (http://www.rhinophoto3d.com/home.html) we use for small stuff.

#66 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:04 PM

Guys...

I work in an unheated shed in Northern Ontario. Up until a month ago my most sophisticated piece if equipment was a belt sander flipped over and clamped in a bench vise with a zip tie to hold the trigger down. I thought "lines" were used to sail a boat not build one...and I apparently I put the bow on the wrong end of my own boat.

Somehow I think laser generated hull lines may not be in my immediate future.

And on top of that I bought one of these and for the life of me I can't find anywhere to plug the USB cable into it!!

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#67 Slick470

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:11 PM

thanks guys. that sounds like really cool technology.

#68 SailAR

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:18 PM

:o I can understand the time this takes from the design office standpoint. But ...

I've had lines sent from six different firms and nothing but a thank you and we're looking forward to seeing the model hanging at your club. S&S, Empacher, Hunt, Rodger Martin, Jim Taylor and Lee Wilbur. All couldn't have been nicer. These weren't all new designs, most were at least 10 years old, and S&S was 40 plus. Guess we were lucky.

#69 PNW Matt B

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:32 PM

Guys...

I work in an unheated shed in Northern Ontario. Up until a month ago my most sophisticated piece if equipment was a belt sander flipped over and clamped in a bench vise with a zip tie to hold the trigger down. I thought "lines" were used to sail a boat not build one...and I apparently I put the bow on the wrong end of my own boat.

Somehow I think laser generated hull lines may not be in my immediate future.

And on top of that I bought one of these and for the life of me I can't find anywhere to plug the USB cable into it!!

That whole "make sure the boat's level before you start" thing - got a garden hose? Add a foot of clear tubing to each end, mark the center of each clear tube with a Sharpie. Tape the clear hose to the hull with the marks at the waterline bow and stern. Fill the hose with colored water.

Raise or lower the jacks until the water level shows you're level fore and aft. Then move the hoses to the waterline port and starboard. Repeat.

With a little practice it can be done in less than 10 minutes.

#70 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:35 PM

Matt

That way is easy...it's getting it level abeam which may prove challenging.

Being that is on a trailer makes it a bit tougher to adjust. I'll figure it out.

#71 oregonarchist

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:40 PM


-- snip-- Bob, take care of those "Legacy Files". You owe it to posterity. Posted Image


Yes Bob. You need an intern. He can take all the drawings to the printer. Then store them somewhere away from the originals (MOHAI?, Mystic?). Do the same for the electronic files.

We had fires at the family shipyard long ago and lost a huge amount of legacy data. If only...

Here at work back-ups are done regularly and stored off site. Should something catastrophic happen we could be up and running as soon as new computers could be aquired. We would lose maybe only a day or two of engineering work.


Hell, yes, Bob, take care of those Legacy files!!

Your office is something of a sailing historical site -- not to come off like a sycophant or something, but it was honestly like a pilgrimage to a holy shrine of boat design to be there. Pretty sure others feel the same way. There is a lot of sailing history there, and a lot of what I know you, and me, and lots of others, would consider works of art in your drawings. Cool stuff.

I'd be more than happy to take another road trip north and pitch in a bunch of "intern hours" to help scan or take digital photos of or whatever it might take to protect what you have there. I think we sailors are a bit of a romantic and nostalgic lot, and it really would be a terrible loss to see your "Legacy Files" lost somehow.

#72 Slick470

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:41 PM

I keep all my drawings, even the preliminaries. They are fun to look at. If you like that stuff. I can trace the evolution of a design that way. Sometimes I look mover old drawings and I marvel at the amount of work I have done over the years. I worked my ass off.
Many of the boats I designed were built by builders who are either dead or out of business. I am the last one standing in many cases and owners need me to be here when they need help.

I am sure many of the owners of your designs greatly appreciate your willingness to share what you have. If I owned one of your boats I would have asked you for a file or a print a long time ago.

Unfortunately, Mr. Schumacher left us way too soon for me to request the same from him.

#73 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:47 PM

He said "phant".

My drawings are not going anywhere but Oregon you know you are always welcome here and you need to come back soon. Maybe next time you won't have to sleep on the floor! I have just the archiving job for you.

#74 oregonarchist

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:49 PM

--snip

It's not a priority for the boat manufacturers, generally speaking. S&S cares; C&C cares a bit, now, but hasn't in the past. I highly doubt Catalina or Hunter gives a single fuck between them. It's not actually hard to do if you're paying attention, and electronic storage actually makes it much easier - but only if someone's paying attention to the problem.

--snip


I don't know about Hunter, but I have to speak up for the folks at Catalina -- not for line drawings in particular, but I have contacted them a few times looking for information and they have been way helpful and dug up more than I was asking for as far as old drawings, specs, information, even sending me copies of sales brochures and original owners manuals and other fun to have and see, if not useful, historical stuff on my boats -- the "newest" of which is 30-yrs old.

Kent, in Engineering, has been particularly helpful and given at least two fucks on more than one occasion.

#75 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 08:51 PM

I am sure many of the owners of your designs greatly appreciate your willingness to share what you have. If I owned one of your boats I would have asked you for a file or a print a long time ago.



Oddly enough it was through Mrs.Keeper buying me prints of our M33 from Bob that we first became acquainted....so after we actually meet later next month you may find Bob reluctant to ever chance making that mistake again.

Posted Image


This is actually an original that Bob kindly gifted us. I love it.

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#76 Rasputin22

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:18 PM

You guys might want to have a look at this plugin for Rhino, http://www.rhinophoto3d.com/ being used to digitize a sailboat hull. I've reverse engineered hull from laser scans, but this looks to have promise.

#77 oregonarchist

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:23 PM

He said "phant".

My drawings are not going anywhere but Oregon you know you are always welcome here and you need to come back soon. Maybe next time you won't have to sleep on the floor! I have just the archiving job for you.


Thanks, Bob -- I will make it up soon and get to work on whatever you have.

As for sleeping, if that waterbed spot is open again, that'll work fine.

#78 sam_crocker

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 09:34 PM

Topic: Hull Lines for a C&C 37/40 or why designing sail boats on computers may not be best for posterity.

Hull lines.
.

I have a few ideas, mostly concerning a laser level and a camera and PhotoShop but it seems like a lot of work for something that is probably out there somewhere. No, I don't know how to use CAD as that would probably make it easier.

Anyone out there got a set hidden away?
Bob, take care of those "Legacy Files". You owe it to posterity. Posted Image


US Sailing may have some sort of digitized file on the 37, for their IMS/ORC/ORCi certificate generation. I know they don't release the information (hulls are Intellectual Property after all), but they may be able to release it to C&C, who then might in turn release to you.

The data is just offsets (XYZ ponts), the hull would have to be rebuilt from that.

Otherwise that Rhino thing looks pretty cool.

#79 Jose Carumba

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 10:01 PM

Yeah, the RhinoPhoto thing is pretty cool. I was just using it today to document something which was built in the shop without drawings on one of the boats (we call it a "hand wave"). I am processing the data now and will incorporate it into the full model of the boat.

#80 Rasputin22

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 10:55 PM

Hey Gatekeeper,

I just knocked together a Q&D (quick and dirty) hull model of the B 331 Oceanis in Rhino that might be a good starting point for your loft model. I assume you would be using waterline lifts and they knocking off the corners in the traditional manner. Keep in mind that I threw this together in less than an hour from a GA that I got off of the net but it might be enough for you to get started. Here are some perspective screenshots with the reference 'picture frame' images as Rhino calls them, turned somewhat transparent. I'll send you a dxf file of the lines drawing if you want or can post here if GF doesn't get on my case! I do this sort of reverse stuff a lot and sometimes have laser scans of molds or hulls to do a point set deviation to dial the shapes in better. A lot easier that trying to work directly from laser or lidar scans as you get too much information. This was done with just the canoe body line, stem, sheerline and three body section lines. It might take one more section line in the bow to add the flatter knuckle that is probably there in the real boat. I couldn't find and web photos but if you have any (or your client) I could fine tune things. Hope this helps...

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#81 dolphinmaster

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 11:30 PM

Hey Gatekeeper,

I just knocked together a Q&D (quick and dirty) hull model of the B 331 Oceanis in Rhino that might be a good starting point for your loft model. I assume you would be using waterline lifts and they knocking off the corners in the traditional manner. Keep in mind that I threw this together in less than an hour from a GA that I got off of the net but it might be enough for you to get started. Here are some perspective screenshots with the reference 'picture frame' images as Rhino calls them, turned somewhat transparent. I'll send you a dxf file of the lines drawing if you want or can post here if GF doesn't get on my case! I do this sort of reverse stuff a lot and sometimes have laser scans of molds or hulls to do a point set deviation to dial the shapes in better. A lot easier that trying to work directly from laser or lidar scans as you get too much information. This was done with just the canoe body line, stem, sheerline and three body section lines. It might take one more section line in the bow to add the flatter knuckle that is probably there in the real boat. I couldn't find and web photos but if you have any (or your client) I could fine tune things. Hope this helps...


Well, all I can say is that GK must have done a significant amount of sailing sunday school over the years cuz that is some fast " Ask and ye shall receive" action right there.

#82 Gatekeeper

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 11:51 PM

Rap

DO IT...holy crap you've solved it. Grid me out a simple set of hull lines (lifts) and my client will gladly pay.

WLYDO is an amazing place

#83 Bob Perry

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Posted 31 January 2012 - 11:52 PM

Rap:
You just impressed the hell out of me. Well done! Dan will love it and he can give you the lift spacing he wants to work with.
Did you just eyeball it from the profile and plan with some photos?

It's the power of the WLYDO once again. We are going to be famous.

We are going to need a bigger office. On the beach. In Mexico. With a swimming pool and a squatty little Mexican lady that comes and makes us breakfast each morning with fresh eggs raised by her father. The ones with a little mud still on the shells.

#84 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:09 AM

Rap:
You just impressed the hell out of me. Well done! Dan will love it and he can give you the lift spacing he wants to work with.
Did you just eyeball it from the profile and plan with some photos?

It's the power of the WLYDO once again. We are going to be famous.

We are going to need a bigger office. On the beach. In Mexico. With a swimming pool and a squatty little Mexican lady that comes and makes us breakfast each morning with fresh eggs raised by her father. The ones with a little mud still on the shells.




Think BIG...Grenada!!

Rap impressed you, he floored me....you design it... Rap will give me the lines, Son's will render it....I'll carve it. Greeves will kill somebody. It's perfect!!

(wine may have been involved in this post)



#85 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:38 AM

Great to hear such words from the Mighty WLYDO! I've been lurking on the fringes here and am only glad to be of service. I posted those ss's just to get your attention and need to massage the forefoot a bit and can get you what you need shortly. I just had a PM from Jose and he tells me that GK might not have the CAD capabilites and that I should scale it to his preferences and flatten out the waterlines for him to print and cut on the bandsaw. GK, let me know how best to make this work for you. I trust your craftsmans eye can deal with the detailing, but I might flesh things out a bit more. Glad to be on board with such an august group. I'll sent photos of where my ass-sets...

#86 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:37 AM

Got that GK. Is this just a half hull model?

#87 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:39 AM

Got that GK. Is this just a half hull model?


Yup..., a simple half hull with no coach.

#88 Ishmael

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:44 AM


Got that GK. Is this just a half hull model?


Yup..., a simple half hull with no coach.


Rap, make sure it's pointing right.

#89 kdh

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:57 AM

On the beach. In Mexico. With a swimming pool and a squatty little Mexican lady that comes and makes us breakfast each morning with fresh eggs raised by her father. The ones with a little mud still on the shells.

Bob, I've been meaning to tell you. We have hens. We love them. They gift us eggs and we give them a long, good life. But the reality is they have one hole that they use for everything. It's not mud, but poop. Not much different from mud, really, but still.

#90 Ishmael

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:05 AM


On the beach. In Mexico. With a swimming pool and a squatty little Mexican lady that comes and makes us breakfast each morning with fresh eggs raised by her father. The ones with a little mud still on the shells.

Bob, I've been meaning to tell you. We have hens. We love them. They gift us eggs and we give them a long, good life. But the reality is they have one hole that they use for everything. It's not mud, but poop. Not much different from mud, really, but still.


Sorry, I was still stuck on the squatty little Mexican lady. What did you say?



#91 Cruisin Loser

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:12 AM

No better place for this.

A month or so ago I emailed Gate about a half model of my beloved Sparky. He responded immediately asking for photos.

I'm over a month into the oil well from hell. I'm 40 days from rig move, 28 days from spud on (what should have been) a 16 day well, I'm only at 7,000' on a 9,400' well. It's horrible, the rig keeps breaking, the hands are useless, my cost estimate for the well now looks like an absurd fantasy. I have some new partners in this well who participated based on my reputation, I'm embarrassed to send out morning reports, embarrassed to report another day of slow progress at exorbitant cost. I want to play Polish Roulette (like Russian, but with a full revolver), or go pull wings off kittens. In 34 years as an engineer in this business, this is the worst rig I've ever had. I can't take my problems home, it's not fair to the family, but my office crew have wisely been steering around me for weeks now. I'm working days in the office, spending nights at a crappy trailer at the rig, getting almost no rest, missing my family,trying to teach these lazy, addled kids about drilling and getting cranky as hell. The oldest toolpusher (rig manager) for this rig was born after I started drilling wells.

I never responded to his request for pics. I just haven't had time.

We got a box yesterday. I opened it tonight. A beautiful, incredible halfmodel, correct to the white-red-white bootstripe that is unique to Sparky. From my best friend Boomberries via Gatekeeper.

Thanks BoomBoom. Thanks Gate. It's beautiful. I love it. If either of you guys ever want to borrow a shabby, used up, worn out version of KDH's boat, she's yours for the asking.

I love this place.

#92 austin1972

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:27 AM


On the beach. In Mexico. With a swimming pool and a squatty little Mexican lady that comes and makes us breakfast each morning with fresh eggs raised by her father. The ones with a little mud still on the shells.

Bob, I've been meaning to tell you. We have hens. We love them. They gift us eggs and we give them a long, good life. But the reality is they have one hole that they use for everything. It's not mud, but poop. Not much different from mud, really, but still.


What kind of hens? I need 3 pullets in the spring. Currently have Buffs and Rhode Island Reds.

CL - that is a good story.

#93 Boomberries

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:35 AM

No better place for this.

A month or so ago I emailed Gate about a half model of my beloved Sparky. He responded immediately asking for photos.

I'm over a month into the oil well from hell. I'm 40 days from rig move, 28 days from spud on (what should have been) a 16 day well, I'm only at 7,000' on a 9,400' well. It's horrible, the rig keeps breaking, the hands are useless, my cost estimate for the well now looks like an absurd fantasy. I have some new partners in this well who participated based on my reputation, I'm embarrassed to send out morning reports, embarrassed to report another day of slow progress at exorbitant cost. I want to play Polish Roulette (like Russian, but with a full revolver), or go pull wings off kittens. In 34 years as an engineer in this business, this is the worst rig I've ever had. I can't take my problems home, it's not fair to the family, but my office crew have wisely been steering around me for weeks now. I'm working days in the office, spending nights at a crappy trailer at the rig, getting almost no rest, missing my family,trying to teach these lazy, addled kids about drilling and getting cranky as hell. The oldest toolpusher (rig manager) for this rig was born after I started drilling wells.

I never responded to his request for pics. I just haven't had time.

We got a box yesterday. I opened it tonight. A beautiful, incredible halfmodel, correct to the white-red-white bootstripe that is unique to Sparky. From my best friend Boomberries via Gatekeeper.

Thanks BoomBoom. Thanks Gate. It's beautiful. I love it. If either of you guys ever want to borrow a shabby, used up, worn out version of KDH's boat, she's yours for the asking.

I love this place.

CL, I am so glad you liked it. B) Gate did a fantastic job. I commissioned Gate to build it almost two months ago. It was in the works prior to you writing to him about it. If you look at Gate's blog site on the "Little Slivers" thread, , the "Echo" project he was working on was actually Sparky. He cunningly used a ficticious name of a boat, so he could share the progress and pics of his fantastic work. I was one of those "fussy" clients :P who knew exactly what she wanted, and Dan delivered. I think I sent him every pic I had of Sparky. Many thanks to Bob P for his help and input as well.

I know I speak for WHL as well, when I say our adventure to Bermuda and back last year, was second to none. Truly a dream sailing adventure with you guys on your lovely boat. This is but a small token of my gratitude.

Hope things improve with work, soon. I always find it's darkest just before the light comes shining through.

BoomBoom

#94 jackdaw

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:42 AM


No better place for this.

A month or so ago I emailed Gate about a half model of my beloved Sparky. He responded immediately asking for photos.

I'm over a month into the oil well from hell. I'm 40 days from rig move, 28 days from spud on (what should have been) a 16 day well, I'm only at 7,000' on a 9,400' well. It's horrible, the rig keeps breaking, the hands are useless, my cost estimate for the well now looks like an absurd fantasy. I have some new partners in this well who participated based on my reputation, I'm embarrassed to send out morning reports, embarrassed to report another day of slow progress at exorbitant cost. I want to play Polish Roulette (like Russian, but with a full revolver), or go pull wings off kittens. In 34 years as an engineer in this business, this is the worst rig I've ever had. I can't take my problems home, it's not fair to the family, but my office crew have wisely been steering around me for weeks now. I'm working days in the office, spending nights at a crappy trailer at the rig, getting almost no rest, missing my family,trying to teach these lazy, addled kids about drilling and getting cranky as hell. The oldest toolpusher (rig manager) for this rig was born after I started drilling wells.

I never responded to his request for pics. I just haven't had time.

We got a box yesterday. I opened it tonight. A beautiful, incredible halfmodel, correct to the white-red-white bootstripe that is unique to Sparky. From my best friend Boomberries via Gatekeeper.

Thanks BoomBoom. Thanks Gate. It's beautiful. I love it. If either of you guys ever want to borrow a shabby, used up, worn out version of KDH's boat, she's yours for the asking.

I love this place.

CL, I am so glad you liked it. B) Gate did a fantastic job. I commissioned Gate to build it almost two months ago. It was in the works prior to you writing to him about it. If you look at Gate's blog site on the "Little Slivers" thread, , the "Echo" project he was working on was actually Sparky. He cunningly used a ficticious name of a boat, so he could share the progress and pics of his fantastic work. I was one of those "fussy" clients :P who knew exactly what she wanted, and Dan delivered. I think I sent him every pic I had of Sparky. Many thanks to Bob P for his help and input as well.

I know I speak for WHL as well, when I say our adventure to Bermuda and back last year, was second to none. Truly a dream sailing adventure with you guys on your lovely boat. This is but a small token of my gratitude.

Hope things improve with work, soon. I always find it's darkest just before the light comes shining through.

BoomBoom


How. Fucking. Cool.

Wow.

Good on you all.

#95 Kestrel219

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:04 AM


No better place for this.

A month or so ago I emailed Gate about a half model of my beloved Sparky. He responded immediately asking for photos.

I'm over a month into the oil well from hell. I'm 40 days from rig move, 28 days from spud on (what should have been) a 16 day well, I'm only at 7,000' on a 9,400' well. It's horrible, the rig keeps breaking, the hands are useless, my cost estimate for the well now looks like an absurd fantasy. I have some new partners in this well who participated based on my reputation, I'm embarrassed to send out morning reports, embarrassed to report another day of slow progress at exorbitant cost. I want to play Polish Roulette (like Russian, but with a full revolver), or go pull wings off kittens. In 34 years as an engineer in this business, this is the worst rig I've ever had. I can't take my problems home, it's not fair to the family, but my office crew have wisely been steering around me for weeks now. I'm working days in the office, spending nights at a crappy trailer at the rig, getting almost no rest, missing my family,trying to teach these lazy, addled kids about drilling and getting cranky as hell. The oldest toolpusher (rig manager) for this rig was born after I started drilling wells.

I never responded to his request for pics. I just haven't had time.

We got a box yesterday. I opened it tonight. A beautiful, incredible halfmodel, correct to the white-red-white bootstripe that is unique to Sparky. From my best friend Boomberries via Gatekeeper.

Thanks BoomBoom. Thanks Gate. It's beautiful. I love it. If either of you guys ever want to borrow a shabby, used up, worn out version of KDH's boat, she's yours for the asking.

I love this place.

CL, I am so glad you liked it. B) Gate did a fantastic job. I commissioned Gate to build it almost two months ago. It was in the works prior to you writing to him about it. If you look at Gate's blog site on the "Little Slivers" thread, , the "Echo" project he was working on was actually Sparky. He cunningly used a ficticious name of a boat, so he could share the progress and pics of his fantastic work. I was one of those "fussy" clients :P who knew exactly what she wanted, and Dan delivered. I think I sent him every pic I had of Sparky. Many thanks to Bob P for his help and input as well.

I know I speak for WHL as well, when I say our adventure to Bermuda and back last year, was second to none. Truly a dream sailing adventure with you guys on your lovely boat. This is but a small token of my gratitude.

Hope things improve with work, soon. I always find it's darkest just before the light comes shining through.

BoomBoom


Sounds awesome! And sounds like you are my kind of sailor Posted Image " I was one of those "fussy" clients who knew exactly what she wanted"

#96 Cruisin Loser

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:22 AM


CL, I am so glad you liked it. B) Gate did a fantastic job. I commissioned Gate to build it almost two months ago. It was in the works prior to you writing to him about it. If you look at Gate's blog site on the "Little Slivers" thread, , the "Echo" project he was working on was actually Sparky. He cunningly used a ficticious name of a boat, so he could share the progress and pics of his fantastic work. I was one of those "fussy" clients :P who knew exactly what she wanted, and Dan delivered. I think I sent him every pic I had of Sparky. Many thanks to Bob P for his help and input as well.

I know I speak for WHL as well, when I say our adventure to Bermuda and back last year, was second to none. Truly a dream sailing adventure with you guys on your lovely boat. This is but a small token of my gratitude.

Hope things improve with work, soon. I always find it's darkest just before the light comes shining through.

BoomBoom


How. Fucking. Cool.

Wow.

Good on you all.

I think it's cool as shit. I met BoomBoom and WHL here at CA, we had a killer adventure and ended as great friends, the way it's supposed to be.

Boom, this came at the perfect time. It's no secret that I think the world of you and WHL, thanks again to you, Gate and to Bob P. for his help. The hard part is deciding where it goes. Beth (Mrs. Loser) is agitating for at home next to other Bermuda souvenirs. I'm thinking office, where I'll see it more and can explain the cool back story.

#97 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:45 AM


Got that GK. Is this just a half hull model?


Yup..., a simple half hull with no coach.


GK,
I've reworked the hull to try and fair out things a bit more and here are some ss's just for review. Still a few issues with a slight hollow in the entry at the bow but I won't obsess with that as I'm sure you can sweeten things up with 40 grit and a rasp or whatever you do to work your majik. I'll scale and slice to your specs tommorrow and try and get something to you, perhaps a print file to a local printer near you. I'm sure you have a UPS store nearby that could just print to scale and then you can tranfer to your lifts and go to work with the band saw. I can even mark for dowel holes down through the lifts to index the sucessive layers in place if that helps. Here is a peeks for now... Good night!

Attached Files



#98 Paps

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:03 AM

Er yes Bob, I was going to clarify the "mud" issue. Everything else sounds peachy!

Rasp, amazing stuff. Allow me to hand you your WLYDO hat and welcome to the team.

Who needs the bloody French, we can handle it "in house"

#99 kdh

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 12:53 PM


No better place for this.

A month or so ago I emailed Gate about a half model of my beloved Sparky. He responded immediately asking for photos.

I'm over a month into the oil well from hell. I'm 40 days from rig move, 28 days from spud on (what should have been) a 16 day well, I'm only at 7,000' on a 9,400' well. It's horrible, the rig keeps breaking, the hands are useless, my cost estimate for the well now looks like an absurd fantasy. I have some new partners in this well who participated based on my reputation, I'm embarrassed to send out morning reports, embarrassed to report another day of slow progress at exorbitant cost. I want to play Polish Roulette (like Russian, but with a full revolver), or go pull wings off kittens. In 34 years as an engineer in this business, this is the worst rig I've ever had. I can't take my problems home, it's not fair to the family, but my office crew have wisely been steering around me for weeks now. I'm working days in the office, spending nights at a crappy trailer at the rig, getting almost no rest, missing my family,trying to teach these lazy, addled kids about drilling and getting cranky as hell. The oldest toolpusher (rig manager) for this rig was born after I started drilling wells.

I never responded to his request for pics. I just haven't had time.

We got a box yesterday. I opened it tonight. A beautiful, incredible halfmodel, correct to the white-red-white bootstripe that is unique to Sparky. From my best friend Boomberries via Gatekeeper.

Thanks BoomBoom. Thanks Gate. It's beautiful. I love it. If either of you guys ever want to borrow a shabby, used up, worn out version of KDH's boat, she's yours for the asking.

I love this place.

CL, I am so glad you liked it. B) Gate did a fantastic job. I commissioned Gate to build it almost two months ago. It was in the works prior to you writing to him about it. If you look at Gate's blog site on the "Little Slivers" thread, , the "Echo" project he was working on was actually Sparky. He cunningly used a ficticious name of a boat, so he could share the progress and pics of his fantastic work. I was one of those "fussy" clients :P who knew exactly what she wanted, and Dan delivered. I think I sent him every pic I had of Sparky. Many thanks to Bob P for his help and input as well.

I know I speak for WHL as well, when I say our adventure to Bermuda and back last year, was second to none. Truly a dream sailing adventure with you guys on your lovely boat. This is but a small token of my gratitude.

Hope things improve with work, soon. I always find it's darkest just before the light comes shining through.

BoomBoom

So great. I was following Dan's "Echo" project--I should have known it was really Sparky. I wasn't aware of a SW42 "Echo," it wasn't in the USCG registry, and I'd considered "Echo" as a name for my boat so had asked the yard if one existed already.

CL, good luck with your project. I hope a little venting here was therapeutic.

#100 kdh

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:01 PM



On the beach. In Mexico. With a swimming pool and a squatty little Mexican lady that comes and makes us breakfast each morning with fresh eggs raised by her father. The ones with a little mud still on the shells.

Bob, I've been meaning to tell you. We have hens. We love them. They gift us eggs and we give them a long, good life. But the reality is they have one hole that they use for everything. It's not mud, but poop. Not much different from mud, really, but still.


What kind of hens? I need 3 pullets in the spring. Currently have Buffs and Rhode Island Reds.

CL - that is a good story.

My daughter could give you all the names and breeds. They include Buffs. It's quite the mix, including Banties. Rhode Island Reds originate a stone's throw from the boat in Little Compton, RI, but we currently don't have any.

We're getting more in the spring too, I believe. We always mail away for them at the Murray McMurray hatchery if we can find takers locally for the 12 bird minimum. They have great sexers there. For those who don't know, it's hard to tell. That all purpose hole is used, even males. Totally half-assed.




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