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Group Finot and Gate's lines drawing


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#101 bljones

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 01:04 PM

Who needs the bloody French, we can handle it "in house"

Sorta like WW I and 2.

#102 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:31 PM

Rap

I'm amazed...I was going to ramble on for a couple paragraphs, but it still gets down to...I'm amazed.

Welcome to WLYDO. You get the corner office with the view of Elliot Bay. If you need me, I'm in the basement.

#103 Soņadora

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 02:43 PM

Rap - fucking awesome

Gate - you're a goddam angel

CL - hang in there dude

#104 kimbottles

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:07 PM

No better place for this.

A month or so ago I emailed Gate about a half model of my beloved Sparky. He responded immediately asking for photos.

I'm over a month into the oil well from hell. I'm 40 days from rig move, 28 days from spud on (what should have been) a 16 day well, I'm only at 7,000' on a 9,400' well. It's horrible, the rig keeps breaking, the hands are useless, my cost estimate for the well now looks like an absurd fantasy. I have some new partners in this well who participated based on my reputation, I'm embarrassed to send out morning reports, embarrassed to report another day of slow progress at exorbitant cost. I want to play Polish Roulette (like Russian, but with a full revolver), or go pull wings off kittens. In 34 years as an engineer in this business, this is the worst rig I've ever had. I can't take my problems home, it's not fair to the family, but my office crew have wisely been steering around me for weeks now. I'm working days in the office, spending nights at a crappy trailer at the rig, getting almost no rest, missing my family,trying to teach these lazy, addled kids about drilling and getting cranky as hell. The oldest toolpusher (rig manager) for this rig was born after I started drilling wells.

I never responded to his request for pics. I just haven't had time.

We got a box yesterday. I opened it tonight. A beautiful, incredible halfmodel, correct to the white-red-white bootstripe that is unique to Sparky. From my best friend Boomberries via Gatekeeper.

Thanks BoomBoom. Thanks Gate. It's beautiful. I love it. If either of you guys ever want to borrow a shabby, used up, worn out version of KDH's boat, she's yours for the asking.

I love this place.


Booms is pretty special, it is difficult to find them as good as she is.....

#105 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 03:17 PM

Maybe we should move this to Egg Anarchy.

#106 blackjenner

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:25 PM

I don't really have much to add here. I'm just sitting back, basking in the awesomeness of this thread and the participants.

I'm glad I found this place.

#107 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:36 PM

Maybe we should move this to Egg Anarchy.


Put a keel on an egg and it kinda looks like a new Hunter.

#108 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

Just had my eggs, and want to get these lines off to GK. I see Bob's here so maybe everyone can take a final review before I flatten this 3d work out and get something ready for GK to print and start making sawdust. I went ahead and modeled the keel and rudder so GK can do a 3/5th's mount like I saw him do on the Sliver model. I was pretty impressed with the attention to the cove stripe details that were on the PDF from Tim Kernan of the SC 37, so I carved it into the hull according to the GA I've been using. A couple of ports and some bottom paint and quick mounting board and lables and I'm pretty pleased with the look, hope it goes over well with the Office.

If you don't have CAD, then I highly recommend downloading the Rhino3D evaluation and use it as a viewer, GK (and any one else if interested!) It is a big download but will run fairly well even on relatively low powered laptops and is a full version. McNeel have been begged to to a Lite version or a pared down viewer, but they insist everyone try the full version and it is good for 25 saves. Well work messing around with, but be careful it can be addicting! I'll post this model for you and it would be useful as to shape the hull by being able to rotate and zoom and give you a better feel of the proportions and scale. If you send me an address perhaps I can just go ahead and prepare the waterline lifts as mentioned and email a cut file to a local InstaPrints or the UPS Store and they can print and you just drop by and pick them up. The largest lift should fit on a tabloid size sheet of paper so if you have an inkjet at home (or next door) just do it yourself.

I've got a couple more ss's to post, I've reached my 1MB limit here.

Attached Files



#109 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:01 PM

More screenshots of the 331

Attached Files



#110 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:03 PM

And the final product

Attached Files



#111 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

Very nice work Raps.
Did you just eyeball the hull shape from profile and plan drawings?

#112 SemiSalt

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

You guys might want to have a look at this plugin for Rhino, http://www.rhinophoto3d.com/ being used to digitize a sailboat hull. I've reverse engineered hull from laser scans, but this looks to have promise.



Hey, that's what I said, except I didn't know it had already been done.

#113 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:13 PM

Raps...as previously stated "I'm amazed" ...still.

Can you transform these so I have simple hull lines to work with? Simple lifts and water lines??

(I think I have a business proposition for you)

#114 SemiSalt

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:18 PM

I just knocked together a Q&D (quick and dirty) hull model of the B 331 Oceanis in Rhino that might be a good starting point for your loft model.


If finot-conq architectes calls and asks for a copy of the lines, charge them $500.

#115 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

Semi:
Now that's funny. But I would suggest 500 euros.

#116 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:30 PM

Very nice work Raps.
Did you just eyeball the hull shape from profile and plan drawings?


Hi Bob,

I seached Google images and found the highest res GA and then bring it into rhino using the 'picture frame' feature. I scale it and then slice the profile and deck plan apart and rotate into their 3d world space orientation. Then I pick out the canoe body keel line and trace out a stem from the forefoot. Go to top view and then trace out the sheer in plan and do the same for the sheer in profile. Then there is a wonderful command called 'curve from 2 views' that will make the 3d sheer line from oplan and profile! I just eyeballed a aft section from photos from the search and then copy it to the mid-section (in order to keep the same point count) and scale and point edit it to suit. I needed one more copied section up towards the bow to keep the entry from getting too hollow and then the 'network surface' command will generate a hull half based on the sheer, keel, 3 sections, and stem! Rhino5 has history now so if it is turned on, then you select and point edit any of the input lines and the surface updates. Fun stuff to do and pretty quick when you get the hang of it.

Gates, I'll 'flatten' the stuff you need and get a print file together for you today. I know you want to make sawdust...

#117 Jose Carumba

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:30 PM

Raps is very good with Rhino. His renderings are good as well. He has worked in the business for some time nowand we've been in contact in the past.

Nice work Raps.

#118 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 05:39 PM

Gates, I'll 'flatten' the stuff you need and get a print file together for you today. I know you want to make sawdust...




I'm not in a rush to cut them...I'm in a rush to see them. I have a Santa Cruz to do next, but I'll cut both boats at the same time. You have solved a big problem for me.

The boat owner will be very happy.

(my email address is on my blog)



#119 Joli

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:08 PM

That's is pretty damn cool! Way to go Rap!!





Got that GK. Is this just a half hull model?


Yup..., a simple half hull with no coach.


GK,
I've reworked the hull to try and fair out things a bit more and here are some ss's just for review. Still a few issues with a slight hollow in the entry at the bow but I won't obsess with that as I'm sure you can sweeten things up with 40 grit and a rasp or whatever you do to work your majik. I'll scale and slice to your specs tommorrow and try and get something to you, perhaps a print file to a local printer near you. I'm sure you have a UPS store nearby that could just print to scale and then you can tranfer to your lifts and go to work with the band saw. I can even mark for dowel holes down through the lifts to index the sucessive layers in place if that helps. Here is a peeks for now... Good night!



#120 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:19 PM

Raps:
Right. That's exactly the way I would have done it if I could have done it.

I have Rhino and we used it when I had helpers. But I have never learned it. Why don't you fly on out and stay a couple of days and get me started. I'll feed you very well.

#121 Salazar

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:43 PM


Very nice work Raps.
Did you just eyeball the hull shape from profile and plan drawings?


Hi Bob,

I seached Google images and found the highest res GA and then bring it into rhino using the 'picture frame' feature. I scale it and then slice the profile and deck plan apart and rotate into their 3d world space orientation. Then I pick out the canoe body keel line and trace out a stem from the forefoot. Go to top view and then trace out the sheer in plan and do the same for the sheer in profile. Then there is a wonderful command called 'curve from 2 views' that will make the 3d sheer line from oplan and profile! I just eyeballed a aft section from photos from the search and then copy it to the mid-section (in order to keep the same point count) and scale and point edit it to suit. I needed one more copied section up towards the bow to keep the entry from getting too hollow and then the 'network surface' command will generate a hull half based on the sheer, keel, 3 sections, and stem! Rhino5 has history now so if it is turned on, then you select and point edit any of the input lines and the surface updates. Fun stuff to do and pretty quick when you get the hang of it.

Gates, I'll 'flatten' the stuff you need and get a print file together for you today. I know you want to make sawdust...


GA = Graphic Array?? Sorry, I don't speak this language very well. Oh, and yeah, Rap, I'm impressed. Big time. Wow. PM sent. Posted Image

#122 Salazar

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:47 PM

No better place for this.

A month or so ago I emailed Gate about a half model of my beloved Sparky. He responded immediately asking for photos.

I'm over a month into the oil well from hell. I'm 40 days from rig move, 28 days from spud on (what should have been) a 16 day well, I'm only at 7,000' on a 9,400' well. It's horrible, the rig keeps breaking, the hands are useless, my cost estimate for the well now looks like an absurd fantasy. I have some new partners in this well who participated based on my reputation, I'm embarrassed to send out morning reports, embarrassed to report another day of slow progress at exorbitant cost. I want to play Polish Roulette (like Russian, but with a full revolver), or go pull wings off kittens. In 34 years as an engineer in this business, this is the worst rig I've ever had. I can't take my problems home, it's not fair to the family, but my office crew have wisely been steering around me for weeks now. I'm working days in the office, spending nights at a crappy trailer at the rig, getting almost no rest, missing my family,trying to teach these lazy, addled kids about drilling and getting cranky as hell. The oldest toolpusher (rig manager) for this rig was born after I started drilling wells.

I never responded to his request for pics. I just haven't had time.

We got a box yesterday. I opened it tonight. A beautiful, incredible halfmodel, correct to the white-red-white bootstripe that is unique to Sparky. From my best friend Boomberries via Gatekeeper.

Thanks BoomBoom. Thanks Gate. It's beautiful. I love it. If either of you guys ever want to borrow a shabby, used up, worn out version of KDH's boat, she's yours for the asking.

I love this place.

CA, Gate, Booms, this was one of the first things I read this morning. Great story. It put me a a real good space for today and I'm still in it. I'm really glad you guys don't mind me hanging around here, you're a pretty cool bunch. Posted Image

#123 smackdaddy

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:47 PM

Pogs:
Yes. This is an anti Groupe Finot thread. I want an international incidfent.
Fucktards!


I'd definitely stick with this. You want to curse at them in English just to add to the humiliation, underscoring the fact that you can't be bothered to learn any French whatsoever.

(Oh, and up your price. Think of the WLYDO overhead keeping 100+ employees on the payroll!)

#124 Jose Carumba

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:47 PM

GA = Graphic Array?? Sorry, I don't speak this language very well. Oh, and yeah, Rap, I'm impressed. Big time. Wow. PM sent. Posted Image


GA = General Arrangement.

#125 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 06:49 PM

Smackers:
If you go back in the thread you'll see we made our point and got a very gracious reply.
But no action.

#126 Anomaly2

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 07:27 PM

a very gracious reply.
But no action.


ah, mais oui. c'est la vie, non? pour les francais....

ou peut'etre, seulement oour les fucktardes...

vive le WLYDO




#127 Paps

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:33 PM

Smackers:
If you go back in the thread you'll see we made our point and got a very gracious reply.
But no action.


About what you would expect, really.

#128 smackdaddy

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:34 PM

Smackers:
If you go back in the thread you'll see we made our point and got a very gracious reply.
But no action.


Yeah - I finally came across it and was tempted to delete that prior post. But I thought that would be a very panzy-ass thing to do. And I'm a Texan - so there are standards you know.

So, I'll hold off until gracious action is forthcoming from our Francopals. If we end up with none, I hereby reserve the right to let fly.

(Please note that the number of letters in "Francopals" perfectly matches the nom de guerre version in anomoly's post above. So this could easily go either way.)

#129 Bob Perry

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:38 PM

Smack:
I think we got what we are going to get and Raps picked up the ball and made a touchdown after the French fumbled.
I do appreciate the fact that they at least posted their explanation here. It makes me wonder how they knew about the thread.

#130 smackdaddy

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:40 PM

Damn, that's what I get for spending so much time in the VOR threads. I miss out on all the fun and STILL Puma loses.

#131 jackdaw

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:43 PM

I do appreciate the fact that they at least posted their explanation here. It makes me wonder how they knew about the thread.


I wasn't me.... I've written to JM-F and have gotten no response.... :(

#132 Anomaly2

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:52 PM

So this could easily go either way.)


Ou [in case the fucktardes are still following along],

comme ci comme ca

but, as Bob noted, WLYDO has solved the problem, Gates can get on with building another beautiful model, Ajax can make us puke with jealousy, Bob's a confirmed stern man, and ND can contemplate 2 (why stop there?) stoves/ovens.....

All is right with the world, n'est pas?




#133 smackdaddy

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 08:57 PM


So this could easily go either way.)


Ou [in case the fucktardes are still following along],

comme ci comme ca

but, as Bob noted, WLYDO has solved the problem, Gates can get on with building another beautiful model, Ajax can make us puke with jealousy, Bob's a confirmed stern man, and ND can contemplate 2 (why stop there?) stoves/ovens.....

All is right with the world, n'est pas?




...and raps freakin' rocks.

Oui.

#134 Anomaly2

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:11 PM

...and raps freakin' rocks.

Oui.


plus cent!!

#135 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:21 PM

I'm a star maker.


Posted Image


(kinda-sorta....probably not)



#136 Soņadora

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:23 PM

It makes me wonder how they knew about the thread.


Bob

I think we all underestimate the power of Anarchy

Remember when we were ragging on Morris and then What's her name shows up?

Considering some of the celebrities we have here and who knows who's lurking...maybe even Steve Wozniak - I hear he likes boats - you never know who might show up.

Notice they only show up when people bitch about their stuff.

#137 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:30 PM

Late to comment but have to join in. Raps, you are amazing. WYLDO has increased it's range dramatically with your help.

And Boom Boom - Very nice of you.

#138 Anomaly2

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:30 PM

who knows who's lurking...maybe even Steve Wozniak - I hear he likes boats -


Wait, Woz has the Group Fucktarde lines?

Say it aint so......

#139 Gatekeeper

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:38 PM

Sons, Rap and Bob...amazing work these guys could put together.

Bob may never let out of the basement (sigh)

#140 bljones

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 09:56 PM

Smack:
I think we got what we are going to get and Raps picked up the ball and made a touchdown after the French fumbled.
I do appreciate the fact that they at least posted their explanation here. It makes me wonder how they knew about the thread.

Might have been my bad. In my email to le groupe fucktardes I threw in a link.
To whit:
"
Monsieur,
200 euros for line drawings is outrageous. Do you really need revenue that badly? Make it 50 euros and we will talk.
http://forums.sailin...ic=131063&st=25"
And the reply:
" bonjourexcuse mefor drawings for modellers for oceanis331 minimum 4 hours is necessary.1 . I have now no time2 . what is normal price for one hours for yacht designer ?3 . what is more important: - use maximum time for design yacht ,and give maximum pleasure in the wind and the sea for navigators.. - use time for other question , is usely, but not essential sincerely yours "

^^^^ that is a classic gallic shrug in print right there.


#141 jackdaw

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:05 PM


It makes me wonder how they knew about the thread.


Considering some of the celebrities we have here and who knows who's lurking...maybe even Steve Wozniak - I hear he likes boats - you never know who might show up.

Notice they only show up when people bitch about their stuff.


Just don't threaten to SPAM the Woz. He could counterattack with massive technological forces.... :)

#142 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 10:21 PM


Smack:
I think we got what we are going to get and Raps picked up the ball and made a touchdown after the French fumbled.
I do appreciate the fact that they at least posted their explanation here. It makes me wonder how they knew about the thread.

Might have been my bad. In my email to le groupe fucktardes I threw in a link.
To whit:
"
Monsieur, 200 euros for line drawings is outrageous. Do you really need revenue that badly? Make it 50 euros and we will talk. http://forums.sailin...ic=131063&st=25" And the reply: " bonjourexcuse mefor drawings for modellers for oceanis331 minimum 4 hours is necessary.1 . I have now no time2 . what is normal price for one hours for yacht designer ?3 . what is more important: - use maximum time for design yacht ,and give maximum pleasure in the wind and the sea for navigators.. - use time for other question , is usely, but not essential sincerely yours " ^^^^ that is a classic gallic shrug in print right there.


Holy fuck that is some serious Engrish right there. you'd think someone in the office spoke the language enough to talk to a customer?

#143 Rasputin22

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:01 PM

Looks like GateKeeper and I have worked out the details for getting the waterline lifts he needs to start on the Oceanis 331 model and I've had some other inquiries for lines re-engineering for some other boats that fell in between the cracks during the CAD transition years. Keep em coming folks, we can archive the whole fleet!

Thanks for all of the positive comments and encouragment, I'm proud to be initiated into the WLYDO in such a manner and it is great to contribute. Just to keep the juices flowing, I'm doing a few renders of the 331 model as the stuff I had posted earlier were just screen captures from the working enviroment within Rhino. I use a rendering engine called Octane to add more realistic materials and lighting and want to share some of these images. BTW, if anyone is interested, I can output a Adobe Acrobat 3D file of the model that anyone with Acrobat Reader can open and play with. Pretty neat way to turn clients on to the power of 3D so if there is interest I will create the file and post.

Attached Files



#144 trenace

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:15 PM

Utterly astonishing.

You have skillz

#145 Jose Carumba

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Posted 01 February 2012 - 11:37 PM

Geeze Octane does a nice job Raps. I gots to get me some of that.

#146 SemiSalt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:11 AM

Raps,

Not to quibble, but to my eye it looks like you need a little more reverse slope at the stern. (One can hardly say "at the transom.")

Attached File  oceanis_331_drawing.jpg   88.4K   34 downloads

It's also hard for me to judge how flat the counter is, i.e. how sharp the tuck of the bilge is at the stern.

#147 ease the sheet!

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:33 AM

David:
I have already thought of contacting Beneteau North America but I suspect they will not be able to provide the drawing either. Thanks for at least filling us in.

I have a big stack of files for storing rolled drawings I did by hand many years ago. They are a PITA to work with but I keep them all available for moments like this when a guy wants to build a model or just have the original deck plan for his boat. I think it is my responsibility as the designer to have these drawings available. But I am just a guy in Seattle so maybe I am a bit strange that way.

Enjoy working on the FEA of the 100'er.
I have to go too.
My dogs need a walk. I'll do a FEA on what I pick up after them.

This is a reminder that the WLYDO is a force to be reckoned with.


this is what i would call " high quality sarcasm"

and i thought that was a lost art!

#148 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 12:53 AM

Raps,

Not to quibble, but to my eye it looks like you need a little more reverse slope at the stern. (One can hardly say "at the transom.")

Attached File  oceanis_331_drawing.jpg   88.4K   34 downloads

It's also hard for me to judge how flat the counter is, i.e. how sharp the tuck of the bilge is at the stern.


Quibble? It wouldn't be SA if there weren't some quibbling going on would it? Good eye! I'm not quite happy with the stern and transom and discovered today that my reference photo from a google search for Oceanis 331 had returned an image for a larger model, the 393! There is a lot more camber across the transom on the 331 and I was bothered by that. Gate says not to bother for his sake as he glues up his lofts run long past the transom and does his shaping before trimming the transom. Much like I do in the 3d model. He will get what he needs tommorow and if FInot and Co want to complain, they can show me their GF's tits!

#149 Ishmael

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:53 AM


Raps,

Not to quibble, but to my eye it looks like you need a little more reverse slope at the stern. (One can hardly say "at the transom.")

Attached File  oceanis_331_drawing.jpg   88.4K   34 downloads

It's also hard for me to judge how flat the counter is, i.e. how sharp the tuck of the bilge is at the stern.


Quibble? It wouldn't be SA if there weren't some quibbling going on would it? Good eye! I'm not quite happy with the stern and transom and discovered today that my reference photo from a google search for Oceanis 331 had returned an image for a larger model, the 393! There is a lot more camber across the transom on the 331 and I was bothered by that. Gate says not to bother for his sake as he glues up his lofts run long past the transom and does his shaping before trimming the transom. Much like I do in the 3d model. He will get what he needs tommorow and if FInot and Co want to complain, they can show me their GF's tits!


Excellent skills to bring.

And I'm always up for French titties.

#150 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:42 AM

I'm really such an addict for Octane, just love dialing in a project to get 'the look' and it has turned into one of my biggest time wasters. But if it gets me that big job that needs the 'money shot' then I guess it wasn't a waste of time. Still fooling around with this 331 half model as if it were a small thing to hang over the mantle has been fun. Funny thing is that when I scaled it down to 18" from 33 feet to output Gates lifts, the camera settings in Octane forced me to reset the aperture and field of vision to get the proper results. That is because Octane is a un biased render engine and is physically correct in its depiction of the scene. All the technicalities aside, I thought I'd post a few more images as I explore the software and the possibilites. I think I need a boot top to cut down on the bulk of the topsides, but I'm pretty happy with the gloss and sheen of the gelcoat and bottom paint and just love the satin varnish look on the backboard. Feel free to add your comments as this is all very subjective and will help in my full scale yacht renders in the future. I'll try and dig up some examples to share with you guys here as well.

Attached Files



#151 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:51 AM

This is fucking humiliating.

Wait just a gol'darn minute. You mean if I learn Rhino I'll be able to draw fat, ugly French boats too?

#152 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:52 AM

This is fucking humiliating.


For Finot is what I hope you mean...

#153 Ishmael

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:53 AM

I'm really such an addict for Octane, just love dialing in a project to get 'the look' and it has turned into one of my biggest time wasters. But if it gets me that big job that needs the 'money shot' then I guess it wasn't a waste of time. Still fooling around with this 331 half model as if it were a small thing to hang over the mantle has been fun. Funny thing is that when I scaled it down to 18" from 33 feet to output Gates lifts, the camera settings in Octane forced me to reset the aperture and field of vision to get the proper results. That is because Octane is a un biased render engine and is physically correct in its depiction of the scene. All the technicalities aside, I thought I'd post a few more images as I explore the software and the possibilites. I think I need a boot top to cut down on the bulk of the topsides, but I'm pretty happy with the gloss and sheen of the gelcoat and bottom paint and just love the satin varnish look on the backboard. Feel free to add your comments as this is all very subjective and will help in my full scale yacht renders in the future. I'll try and dig up some examples to share with you guys here as well.


Nice.
Still no tits, eh?

I'm Canadian, gotta say eh. Eh?

#154 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:54 AM

Here all along I just thought you put your mouth up to the exhaust and blew hard to get that shape.
Somebody over there's been blowing.

#155 Ishmael

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:58 AM

Here all along I just thought you put your mouth up to the exhaust and blew hard to get that shape.


That's Peking Duck. Don't get that confused with Flying Sneaker.

#156 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:59 AM

This is fucking humiliating.

Wait just a gol'darn minute. You mean if I learn Rhino I'll be able to draw fat, ugly French boats too?


Well, that could be. But I can draw pretty boats in Rhino too. Just don't get the opportunity as often as I'd like. I know what you mean though, I find myself putting lipstick on a pig so often... Reminds me of the bumper sticker that I think Landing School of Yacht Design was handing out at IBEX several years ago... 'Life is too short to design ugly boats!' I'm nominating this as the WLYDO official slogan, we all know that it is true!!!

#157 Gatekeeper

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:06 AM

We have a slogan...google HTFU!!


I'm not sure what happened to "ass hat"






#158 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:19 AM

OK Forgive me for usurping the slogan, I just though it was appropriate. And Gate, I apologize for having too much fun with your model. I'll quit making love to it in Octane and get you your lift for building tomorrow, 11 x 17 like we discussed, but right now I'm having fun with this!

#159 Gatekeeper

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:21 AM

Have all the fun you want...I'm enjoying the whole process.

#160 Jose Carumba

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:24 AM

Uhm, well, I don't know how to say this Gate, but I am having a monitor mounted on my wall and will just display Rap's electronic half models on it. I'll hand out 3D glasses at the door.... Sorry. :(

#161 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:43 AM

Well I must have been getting greedy and showing off to you guys too much because I was just posting my latest renders out of Octane and crashed the whole flipping computer.Probably because I have to keep a photo editing program open to convert the mandatory Octane png output to jpeg in order to post within the 1MB SA limit. Anyway, I'm back to tease you guys,if you are still watching... I'm such a exibitionist when it comes to this kind of stuff, sorry... Bob has already expressed his disgust.

Attached Files



#162 Soņadora

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:56 AM

Raps
You need to stop worrying about image size. Get this:
http://imageresizer.codeplex.com/
It adds a menu item in Explorer that lets you resize any image without having to open an image editor like photoshop or paintbrush

#163 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:59 AM

Thanks, I'll check that out. Look at this that I just found on a designers site in relation to this whole post. They spell it out pretty well

Posted ImageAlmost every week, we receive requests from model makers to provide plans for one of our most recent designs. Unfortunately, it is our policy to not provide design documentation to modellers for any vessels which are less than ten years old. This is simply a matter of protecting our investment in new designs, and also protecting our competitive position in the marketplace. Regardless of whatever assurances may be offered, we have no control over what may happen to plans once they leave this office.









#164 Soņadora

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:41 AM

BTDT
That goes for any intellectual property that you might try to use to make money. Make it for your own use or to give away (within reason), no one will bother you...probably.
On another forum I'm on, we had put together a calendar for charity. Somehow Porsche got wind of it and sent a nasty gram. There were pictures in the calendar that had the Porsche logo either front and center on a car in the pic or unbeknownst in the background on a poster in a garage. No pics allowed which contained any visible sign of the Porsche name or logo. Never mind that you could tell the car was a Porsche.
Ain't capitalism great? I guess it depends on which side of it you're on.

#165 PNW Matt B

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:52 AM

So, the renders are pretty cool, but if you're going for a "virtual half model", the ports should be flat black painted rectangles, not resized ports.

And the text on the plaque doesn't look right; it's much better on the latest renders, but it still just looks off. Are you looking for a raised brass look? Because it looks a little like it's raised off the plaque like the model is. Raised brass (or bronze) would work with the look, but not brass raised up off the backing.

And forget image resizing - get an imgur or flickr account and upload the full size images there, then link them in your post. No limits that way.

#166 sam_crocker

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:04 AM


Here all along I just thought you put your mouth up to the exhaust and blew hard to get that shape.


That's Peking Duck. Don't get that confused with Flying Sneaker.



Did somebody say Peking Duck?



Oh, and great work Rasp.

Attached Files



#167 WHL

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:26 AM

I'm really such an addict for Octane, just love dialing in a project to get 'the look' and it has turned into one of my biggest time wasters. But if it gets me that big job that needs the 'money shot' then I guess it wasn't a waste of time. Still fooling around with this 331 half model as if it were a small thing to hang over the mantle has been fun. Funny thing is that when I scaled it down to 18" from 33 feet to output Gates lifts, the camera settings in Octane forced me to reset the aperture and field of vision to get the proper results. That is because Octane is a un biased render engine and is physically correct in its depiction of the scene. All the technicalities aside, I thought I'd post a few more images as I explore the software and the possibilites. I think I need a boot top to cut down on the bulk of the topsides, but I'm pretty happy with the gloss and sheen of the gelcoat and bottom paint and just love the satin varnish look on the backboard. Feel free to add your comments as this is all very subjective and will help in my full scale yacht renders in the future. I'll try and dig up some examples to share with you guys here as well.


Great work. I'm lusting after those software tools !!
As for the Gallic tools..... WLYDO just blew their doors off B)

#168 Paps

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 08:29 AM

Raps
You need to stop worrying about image size. Get this:
http://imageresizer.codeplex.com/
It adds a menu item in Explorer that lets you resize any image without having to open an image editor like photoshop or paintbrush


Thanks Sons, I have been looking for something like that!

#169 Gatekeeper

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 02:03 PM

Posted ImageAlmost every week, we receive requests from model makers to provide plans for one of our most recent designs. Unfortunately, it is our policy to not provide design documentation to modellers for any vessels which are less than ten years old. This is simply a matter of protecting our investment in new designs, and also protecting our competitive position in the marketplace. Regardless of whatever assurances may be offered, we have no control over what may happen to plans once they leave this office.



Silly...we are not asking for anything but simple hull lines, which can be obtained from the boat (or any sister ship) on the hard. Nobody is asking for anything that might even be vaguely construed as secret, proprietary, magical, based in voodoo or handed down from Poseidon.

I was considering doing a hull of a Southerly 38 and contacted the builder in the UK...they almost seemed to take it as a compliment that someone cared enough for their design to want it on their wall. Nice folks.

Frankly I think they should have a basic set in electronic form that would pacify people like me with a simple mouse click.

Gotta go now...I'm flying to Istanbul to meet the Dark One...the password is "ass hat"...I'm hoping to score a set of lines for a Bayfield Buccaneer on micro film. Wish me luck.

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#170 PNW Matt B

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:01 PM

In order to burn them in a dark magic ritual intended to curse any and all remaining examples in the world? Man, Gate, your work and its startling beauty and geerosity to this world is kind of humbling to observe.

EDIT: oh, BAYFIELD Buccaneer. Right. Gotta be more careful about these things...

#171 sculpin

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 03:48 PM

I'm really such an addict for Octane, just love dialing in a project to get 'the look' and it has turned into one of my biggest time wasters. But if it gets me that big job that needs the 'money shot' then I guess it wasn't a waste of time. Still fooling around with this 331 half model as if it were a small thing to hang over the mantle has been fun. Funny thing is that when I scaled it down to 18" from 33 feet to output Gates lifts, the camera settings in Octane forced me to reset the aperture and field of vision to get the proper results. That is because Octane is a un biased render engine and is physically correct in its depiction of the scene. All the technicalities aside, I thought I'd post a few more images as I explore the software and the possibilites. I think I need a boot top to cut down on the bulk of the topsides, but I'm pretty happy with the gloss and sheen of the gelcoat and bottom paint and just love the satin varnish look on the backboard. Feel free to add your comments as this is all very subjective and will help in my full scale yacht renders in the future. I'll try and dig up some examples to share with you guys here as well.


Looks awesome. But as a woodworking snob I have to point out that the backboard looks cheap, like formica. Actually, come to think of it, the backboard looks like the "woodwork" you might find inside a Beneteau!

#172 Gatekeeper

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:03 PM

It has to look synthetic...it's cut from an electronic tree.

Don't they teach you guys anything out there?


Posted Image

#173 SemiSalt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:07 PM

Attached File  oceanis_331_drawing.jpg   88.4K   34 downloads


I'm having a little trouble figuring out the lines at the stern - above water part. There are three lines running southwest to northeast. Working forward to aft, the first one is the end of the topsides. (This one may have slight inflection point at half height rather than a smooth curve all the way.) The second one is the corner between the rim of transom and the walk-in step area. The third one is....I don't know. And, I don't know why the second one is visible; I would have guessed it was identical with the first in projection.

It's almost as if the lines show a view slightly from aft in this area. Would designers do that in order to make the the image more informative for anyone just taking a quick look and not doing an analysis?

#174 ahl

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:39 PM

Another quibble with the backboard: on the top and bottom bevels (that you can just see in some of the shots) the grain of the wood is the wrong direction, like the core of a veneered piece of ply.

Amazing stuff! Do you choose the species of wood for the backboard? Did you switch from cedar to mahogany with a switch?

#175 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:42 PM

I see what you mean about those curves at the transom. Your image is cleaner that the one I used to start this thing and has different line weights for clarity, but the aftmost line at the transom seems to me to represent the center line of the transom surface if it hadn't been trimmed away for the swim platform. That line would determine the amount of camber across the surface. I need to wrap up the lofts for Gate and get those off and then perhaps I'll go back and rebuild the transom with the swim platform cutout from your reference drawing. I wish I had a better photo of the fore foot and entry at the waterline as I'm not quite happy with the model shape in that area, but as far as Gates needs, I'm going to call this 'Mission Accomplished'. Just for fun, I opened the model in another render program that I'm learning more about. Keyshot as it is known is pretty handy in product and automotive visualization but I'm still partial to Octane for its realism and speed. I couldn't resist putting the Beneteau in its native environment, check the background...

Have to agree with the comments about the wood looking like Formica. I'll work on that...

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#176 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

Another quibble with the backboard: on the top and bottom bevels (that you can just see in some of the shots) the grain of the wood is the wrong direction, like the core of a veneered piece of ply.

Amazing stuff! Do you choose the species of wood for the backboard? Did you switch from cedar to mahogany with a switch?


Man you guys do pay attention! Got me there with the grain direction. Yes that can be dealt with and is important to make the grain consistent and avoid that 'veneer' type of mapping. There are different mapping modes such as box, planar, cylindrical, and custom but one would have to have an image of end grain wood that was a match for the flat or qtr sawn wood and apply that end grain to the appropriate face. This sort of thing is what I call playing "Where's Waldo" and an important part of my rendering work. I had a boss at the last NA firm that I worked who had an excellent eye for that sort of thing, but would get so hung up on reflections and shadows the it would drive us both nuts sometimes. I appreciate any such comments here, but keep in mind that this has just been a Q&D attempt to help Gate out and I'm thinking that time spent making the hull surface more representative of the actual vessel would be better spent than chaising down grain orientation. I can reload the image files for different woods and there are controls for gloss, bump, clearcoat, that have a great deal of influence over whether it looks like real wood or plastic.

#177 jackdaw

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 04:53 PM

Looks awesome. But as a woodworking snob I have to point out that the backboard looks cheap, like formica. Actually, come to think of it, the backboard looks like the "woodwork" you might find inside a Beneteau!


Hey Gate, you might want to keep your client away from this thread, he might be disappointed to hear what the WLYDO thinks of his fat ugly boat.

As for me, I think the 331 a pretty nice looking boat. And yes like mine the joinery is not the same quality as on a Sabre. But they have found a way to make good looking, good performing mid-level boats and still stay in business. That has to count for something.

Now I gotta get off this soapbox before I fall down....

#178 Gatekeeper

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:04 PM

He has a great sense of humor...and I'm not telling him just the same.

#179 SemiSalt

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:27 PM

This was labeled Beneteau 311 Oceanis Clipper on a UK website, but I can't promise it's the same model.

Attached File  Bene_Bow.jpg   53.49K   10 downloads

#180 Thorvald

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:46 PM

I can hardly believe what just happened on this thread in the last few days. Haven't checked in for a while. Blown away by what Raps is able to do. The whole thread is amazing actually starting with ragging on the French guys, the response, everything. Raps skills are kinda humbling. I sure couldn't do it. I better stick to sailing and working on boats. That I can do. In fact I have a race this weekend.

Smack:
I think we got what we are going to get and Raps picked up the ball and made a touchdown after the French fumbled.
I do appreciate the fact that they at least posted their explanation here. It makes me wonder how they knew about the thread.



#181 Bob Perry

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 05:53 PM

That's interesting that they don't give model makers lines. Some design offices have simplified lines plans specifically for model makers.
If it were the latest Farr or Juan K. race boat I could totally understand why they guard the hull lines. But a boat like this has no "secrets" and once you see the boat hauled out it is all revealed anyway. We can just get Rap on the job and do it our way. We'll teach them to fuck with the WLYDO.

My attitude has always been that if somneone needs to copy my hull lines then he is just following what I have done and I have nothing to fear. The guy I fear is the guy who doesn't want to copy my hull lines.

I was joking. It's a fine looking vessel.

#182 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:23 PM

I worked with Michael Peter ages ago and he has gone on to become very well known for his powerboat designs, especially really fast ones. He does pretty good in the gin palace department too. I recently spoke with him about a concept design I had done for a 60' fast 'commuter'; if you could call Caracas to Isla Margarita in Venezuela a commute. I apologized for it being a pretty blatant rip off of an 84'er that he had done a few years earlier, 'Jariya' for which he won Best of the Year from one of those big glossy boat mags like Showboats International. His comment was, 'If one is going to copy someone else's design, then he should at least choose to copy from someone who knows what they are doing...' Just another way of saying 'Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery'

#183 sculpin

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:25 PM


Looks awesome. But as a woodworking snob I have to point out that the backboard looks cheap, like formica. Actually, come to think of it, the backboard looks like the "woodwork" you might find inside a Beneteau!


Hey Gate, you might want to keep your client away from this thread, he might be disappointed to hear what the WLYDO thinks of his fat ugly boat.

As for me, I think the 331 a pretty nice looking boat. And yes like mine the joinery is not the same quality as on a Sabre. But they have found a way to make good looking, good performing mid-level boats and still stay in business. That has to count for something.

Now I gotta get off this soapbox before I fall down....

Not intending to insult you or your boat Jackdaw! And one can't argue with success. But they seem to be going further down the road to cheaper interiors - at the Toronto boatshow I was totally unimpressed with the interiors of the Beneteau boats. One thing they are now doing is only making one deck liner (interior) for all the cabin configurations, so there are the slots for all the possible bulkheads formed into the liner! Looks like hell to my eye. I'm sure it makes scheduling the things much easier, but at an esthetic cost.

And it is not as if my boat is a perfect work of art. I'm working on it, but she was a project boat when I bought her and she hasn't let me down. Previous owner actually applied Cetol to some of the interior woodwork! Son of a $#@$@#$@#...

#184 jackdaw

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:38 PM

Not intending to insult you or your boat Jackdaw! And one can't argue with success. But they seem to be going further down the road to cheaper interiors - at the Toronto boatshow I was totally unimpressed with the interiors of the Beneteau boats. One thing they are now doing is only making one deck liner (interior) for all the cabin configurations, so there are the slots for all the possible bulkheads formed into the liner! Looks like hell to my eye. I'm sure it makes scheduling the things much easier, but at an esthetic cost.

And it is not as if my boat is a perfect work of art. I'm working on it, but she was a project boat when I bought her and she hasn't let me down. Previous owner actually applied Cetol to some of the interior woodwork! Son of a $#@$@#$@#...


All cool I didn't take it that way. I was just imaging Gate's client signing on and seeing his boat getting slagged. So I figured I'd make a stand for the brand. But I agree with you on the new woodwork. The square treatment and the very light stain make it look like it came from Ikea. But the dealers say lots of people like it. And mind you, if you bust one of the doors you can call Ward at Beneteau USA and he'll send one to you off the pile for next day delivery. And it will fit perfectly.

#185 Soņadora

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 06:41 PM

Previous owner actually applied Cetol to some of the interior woodwork! Son of a $#@$@#$@#...



WTF?? :blink:

somebody get a rope

I'm no Beneteau hater. If I ever recover from all the varnish fumes I've been breathing over the years and shop around for a nice clorox bottle, there are 3 brands I'd look at: Beneteau, Catalina, and J-Boats.

Go ahead. Flame away, but that's what I'd do. Unless I ended up rolling in a pile of cash. Then it would be a tricked out Hunter.

I KID! jeezus. Stop typing.

#186 sculpin

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:11 PM


Previous owner actually applied Cetol to some of the interior woodwork! Son of a $#@$@#$@#...



WTF?? :blink:

somebody get a rope

I'm no Beneteau hater. If I ever recover from all the varnish fumes I've been breathing over the years and shop around for a nice clorox bottle, there are 3 brands I'd look at: Beneteau, Catalina, and J-Boats.

Go ahead. Flame away, but that's what I'd do. Unless I ended up rolling in a pile of cash. Then it would be a tricked out Hunter.

I KID! jeezus. Stop typing.


Too late for a rope. Teak and holly cabin sole with original Cetol on it just looks like mud. Anyway.

You want the clorox bottle, you need a J 111, I don't think there is a piece of natural fiber anywhere on that boat. There is something to be said for an interior you could pressure wash I guess. And I'm sure that boat goes like stink!

And agreed Jackdaw, there are people out there who like the look. Hard to argue with success, and I'm sure if they were hearing people didn't like it then they would change the interiors.

I'm not looking for a teak cave, but I do want solid wood here and there.

#187 Jose Carumba

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 07:23 PM

If I want to sit around in a shiny cold looking interior I will go sit in my refrigerator.

#188 b6sfull

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 10:48 PM

[/quote]

Sounds awesome! And sounds like you are my kind of sailor Posted Image " I was one of those "fussy" clients who knew exactly what she wanted"
[/quote]


.......not too "fussy" now is right.


considering your choice of men...........:rolleyes:

#189 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:23 PM

I took a closer at some of the reference photos that folks were kind enough to post here of the 331 and found some more on my own and have refined some of the areas that I felt weren't true to the actual boat. Lines are a lot cleaner now and I'll output the lifts to Gates now that I'm happy with them. You've all heard the expression 'garbage in-garbage out', well it applies doing this sort of work and I want Gates to have a valid starting point. I'm going to attach one of the 3D PDF's that I mentioned earlier for those interested, just download them to your desktop and then dbl click and it should open in Acrobat Reader 8 and later. For some reason the lines don't show in the PDF, but I have another little app that will output the model as a WebGl that will open in any modern browser. They are each just under 1 MB so I'll post the next one in a minute.

Attached Files



#190 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:25 PM

Here is the WebGL. I had to turn the meshing way down to get under 1MB but it does display the lines. CLick and drag to rotate and use your mouse scroll wheel to zoom. Enjoy... OOPS too big, I'll zip it and repost

#191 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:30 PM

Unzip this and open to see the WebGl. May not work in IE, but looks great in Chrome or Firefox. SOmething about Java... I'll remesh it finer for smoother display and zip it to just under 1MB and post.

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#192 Rasputin22

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Posted 02 February 2012 - 11:39 PM

This one was 1.6MB but zipped down to .5MB and should display much smoother, Gates you should definitely try and open these as they will help in your modeling. Here is a ss for those who can't (or won't) open the fancy 3d files.

Attached Files



#193 Jose Carumba

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:02 AM

I am not really familiar with this boat but from the 3D PDF it looks to me like the BWL is too narrow.

#194 Rasputin22

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:19 AM

Hey Jose,

I'm starting to think the same way and thats one of the reasons I posted the 3d PDF here for comment. Thanks and I'll see if I can find an image of the boat hanging in the TravelLift straps as that would give me a good visual clue as to the firmness of the turn of the bilge amidships. Just occured to me that I could get a displacement calc at this immersion from Rhino and compare that with the published figure. I'll give that a shot... Glad to see you were able to open the 3D PDF, did you try the WebGL file?

#195 Rasputin22

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 12:57 AM

Just for the record, I ran a hydro on the hull as modeled and with a WL of 28' 10" and 8,047 lbs disp as published, when I run Rhino's hydro command, it gives a me a disp of 8,602 lbs. So I'm inclined to think that the BWL can't be too far off and still get this sort of match. But you have a good point Jose, there is a lot of freeboard and volume bobbing about on that waterplane, but we all know that as sailed the displacement is probably more like 10,000 lbs or more... This whole exercise has been sort of like playing 'pin the tail on the donkey' and I think everyone here agrees that this is a somewhat of a donkey of a design and I'm going to turn Gates loose with it and hope is client is pleased with the results. I learned a long time ago in this business, that if the client wants a grey suit, then by all means give him a grey suit!

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#196 Rasputin22

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 01:12 AM

When net surfing to find the particulars on the 331, I ran across the tidbit of info.

If you want to draw a few conclusions about the complexity (or lack of it) of modern-day yacht design, have a look at the Oceanis 311 and its cousins. The Oceanis 311 has the same hull as the Beneteau 31.7, a handy and roomy cruiser/racer (tested in MB Sept ’99). This hull was designed in the early ’90s as a one-design boat for the Figaro race, a stage event around Europe in which many top solo skippers cut their teeth, build<br style="padding-top: 0px; padding-right: 0px; padding-bottom: 0px; padding-left: 0px; margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; margin-left: 0px; color: rgb(102, 102, 102); font-family: Georgia; line-height: 20px; ">their reputations and head on to stardom in the extreme multi- and monohulls.


So we have been badmouthing a Figaro racer which has spawned the present generation of French ocean racing heros! Who knew?

#197 jackdaw

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:06 AM

Well, me, for one.

#198 Bob Perry

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:50 AM

The bow is a bit off but what does it matter at this stage. I think Rap's hull would have been better than the parent hull.

When ANYONE ( I hope) does a model the thought kicks in, "Maybe I should fine this up a bit and add some volume here."
That's a good thing. It's the creative mind at work. I love it.

Gate will add his own spin on it when he starts carving.
It's all fun.

I wonder when they will have a computer program to relicate the true creative process.

#199 Rasputin22

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 02:59 AM

Well I put the fat blow up doll on a diet and think this is a better representation despite my very limited reference materials. It is kind of like pulling a rabbit out of the hat, but this boat can't be all that bad. Maybe I'll shame Finot into divulging the real lines just to put this to rest. I'd love to be able to see how close I was able to come to theirs. I've checked the displacement and I'm in the ball park to the published figures so I'm pretty happy with the present form. Jose and I had some doubts about the BWL but the boat is pretty light for the overall volume of the hull and this is my story and I'm sticking to it...

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#200 Ishmael

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Posted 03 February 2012 - 03:07 AM

That looks good compared to the published lines, apart from the bow knuckle, theirs is just a hair sharper.

You probably know that. :D

Edit: you do know that, on the next page.

Bloody hell, this is like looking into the future.




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