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#101 ~Stingray~

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:00 AM

^ I never saw LE in the recent SD event. Did see TE and we talked for about 15 seconds before he had to move on around the table I was at, same room as where the '87 Anniversary event for DC happened, SDYC.

And 'man crush' on LE? Are you serious? I admire a lot of the truly massive things he has accomplished but quite frankly the guy scares me! That RC and others can converse w him eye to eye is a truly great thing for sailing in general. All I could think to say when shaking his hand was 'Thank you for this party' - he likely forgot the encounter a split second later.

#102 ro!

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:10 AM

^ I never saw LE in the recent SD event. Did see TE and we talked for about 15 seconds before he had to move on around the table I was at, same room as where the '87 Anniversary event for DC happened, SDYC.

And 'man crush' on LE? Are you serious? I admire a lot of the truly massive things he has accomplished but quite frankly the guy scares me! That RC and others can converse w him eye to eye is a truly great thing for sailing in general. All I could think to say when shaking his hand was 'Thank you for this party' - he likely forgot the encounter a split second later.


So... larry threw you a party for your work here...nice...

#103 ~Stingray~

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:45 AM

^ yeah, 'stingray' was on his mind when 300 other people, and two bands, are what he flew in for, for about 2 hrs. Whatever planet of thought you live on, I sure as heck don't live in.

Clean, where is the interview?

#104 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:03 AM

^ I never saw LE in the recent SD event. Did see TE and we talked for about 15 seconds before he had to move on around the table I was at, same room as where the '87 Anniversary event for DC happened, SDYC.

And 'man crush' on LE? Are you serious? I admire a lot of the truly massive things he has accomplished but quite frankly the guy scares me! That RC and others can converse w him eye to eye is a truly great thing for sailing in general. All I could think to say when shaking his hand was 'Thank you for this party' - he likely forgot the encounter a split second later.


...ENCOUNTER

-----------Posted Image------------

#105 Outlaw GB284

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:18 AM

Isn't that how George `Schuyler started it all.. A friendly competition between nations....
I think that our Kiwi buddies have been and are showing the way here, Prada was pretty good in that respect too
Mind you, the nationality issue is not new, far from that; In the first 100 years the Americans have been racing for the Cup with predominantly Norwegian crew and a a pretty good `Scottish driver.

For RW: What role does nationality play in the longer term marketing of the AC? If you had to do it over, would you have greater emphasis on nationality?





#106 pjfranks

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:56 AM

^ I never saw LE in the recent SD event. Did see TE and we talked for about 15 seconds before he had to move on around the table I was at, same room as where the '87 Anniversary event for DC happened, SDYC.

And 'man crush' on LE? Are you serious? I admire a lot of the truly massive things he has accomplished but quite frankly the guy scares me! That RC and others can converse w him eye to eye is a truly great thing for sailing in general. All I could think to say when shaking his hand was 'Thank you for this party' - he likely forgot the encounter a split second later.

Is this a recurring dream?

#107 Outlaw GB284

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:31 AM



I don’t think that having a mere three challengers is a thing to worry about, if it was, then the America’s Cup would have died a hundred or so years ago. In 1851 the Cup started with 30 defenders against 1 challenger and that 30 to 1 bias towards the defender has always remained an essential part of the America’s Cup. It was never to be a fair boat race, if it was then it would be just another matchrace between extravagant Maxi’s, nothing to stir the sailing world’s emotions. The Cup is all about the richest men in the world racing for something money can’t guarantee to buy. Just to fresh up the memory, on their second attempt, despite their $ 200.000.000 budget, Oracle barely made it to the semi finals of the LVC where they suffered defeat coming 4th for the LVC. In a normal boat race that would mean a final score of 5th overall. Following Alinghy’s victory they had 11 teams signed and paid up for a traditional 33rd Cup, opting for a format that would allow the existing boats to compete and so creating an ”affordable” entry for the lesser financed teams. It was not to be, the team that came 5th found their way to victory in court and gained the time needed to develop a fantastic boat that would win the 33rd Cup. Of the 11 initial Valencia challengers a mere 3 are now paid up for an America’s Cup where defender gave a promise for fair rules and a level playing field, however the odds for any challenger winning are the usual 1 to 30 at best. How do those two match up? When it comes to Oracle; they have the men, they have the boats and they have the money too. Do fair rules result in a fair boat race? Is this progress? Will we see a better America’s Cup?



These questions are irrelevant as what is happening is the essence of the America’s Cup, winning when the odds are 30 to 1 against you.



#108 pjfranks

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:35 PM



I don't think that having a mere three challengers is a thing to worry about, if it was, then the America's Cup would have died a hundred or so years ago. In 1851 the Cup started with 30 defenders against 1 challenger and that 30 to 1 bias towards the defender has always remained an essential part of the America's Cup. It was never to be a fair boat race, if it was then it would be just another matchrace between extravagant Maxi's, nothing to stir the sailing world's emotions. The Cup is all about the richest men in the world racing for something money can't guarantee to buy. Just to fresh up the memory, on their second attempt, despite their $ 200.000.000 budget, Oracle barely made it to the semi finals of the LVC where they suffered defeat coming 4th for the LVC. In a normal boat race that would mean a final score of 5th overall. Following Alinghy's victory they had 11 teams signed and paid up for a traditional 33rd Cup, opting for a format that would allow the existing boats to compete and so creating an "affordable" entry for the lesser financed teams. It was not to be, the team that came 5th found their way to victory in court and gained the time needed to develop a fantastic boat that would win the 33rd Cup. Of the 11 initial Valencia challengers a mere 3 are now paid up for an America's Cup where defender gave a promise for fair rules and a level playing field, however the odds for any challenger winning are the usual 1 to 30 at best. How do those two match up? When it comes to Oracle; they have the men, they have the boats and they have the money too. Do fair rules result in a fair boat race? Is this progress? Will we see a better America's Cup?



These questions are irrelevant as what is happening is the essence of the America's Cup, winning when the odds are 30 to 1 against you.


The question is really about the future of the deed of gift.
The GGYC vision is for a world super league based on the AC72 design
with a full cycle commercial schedule and an incidental final to win the auld mug
as the excuse for the WS to hijack the AC name.
IMO the deed would be better served to stand or fall on its own merits.
But the good news is that not even Ellison can force the AC to stick with his vision
Beyond his reign.
All this effort to change the AC is a bit like
Building sand castles.
With luck a good team like ETNZ will take the cup into AC35
Without the WS.


That said Kiwis have been behind almost all bad news to hit the AC in the last 25 years.

#109 ro!

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 03:08 PM

^ yeah, 'stingray' was on his mind when 300 other people, and two bands, are what he flew in for, for about 2 hrs. Whatever planet of thought you live on, I sure as heck don't live in.

Clean, where is the interview?



I forgot if it isn't followed by a smiley face you guys don't know it's a joke.....

So if ehman didn't give you the reacharound and invite you to larrys party...you must have paid to go!...

And if you didn't meet le at this party when did you gush..thanks for this party...Oh of course... it must have been at another ehman/le party...

#110 Estar

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 04:03 PM

If that rumored ACWS New York event (holy smokes!!) happens shortly before ACSF, then that timing would be incredible. Huuuge attention grabber!

An event right in new york city would be an terrific idea - of course assuming they let anyone know they were holding it:)

Some people here continue to doubt the power of a Larry Ellison.

I sure don't. Anyone who can get an act of congress passed to allow him to make a little more money on a sail boat race undoubtedly has clout.

The question is: does he realize 'his' team has no clue at all about mass marketing? If LE ever comes to understand that he certainly does have both the capability and management style necessary to fix it. Unfortunately LE's business experience has not been at all 'mass market' so he does not have the sort of excellent intuitive instincts that he has in his core business, & his CEO, RC, does not seem to understand it at all, nor know how to fix it. It's not a positive sign for the organization that it would take LE's personally involvement to fix things.


On a related topic . . . the state of the economy and sponsorship and attractiveness of this AC model . . . 17 teams signed up and sponsored for the 2012 Vendee. Interesting, given the state of the European economy and the recent MOD announcements - the Vendee is obviously an attractive platform.

Liz Wardley has announced she will be taking part in the 2012 -2013 Vendée Globe after signing a three-year long partnership contract with a sponsor, whose name is due to be revealed on 9 March in La Roche-sur-Yon in Vendée. Wardley is the second woman to sign up after Samantha Davies, taking the total number to seventeen skippers. Liz will be joining Jean-Baptiste's ocean racing team in Lorient, to get some help during the preparation phase


#111 SellingSailing

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:10 PM


I think you are missing the point. There is huge interest in sailing in the us. That is a fact.


I'm willing to agree that we disagree on that point, but even if it were true, yes, there has been a huge "miscalculation". I'll bet that we can agree that there is huge interest in NASCAR, football, baseball, basketball, etc., but in sailing?

There may be interest in sailing, but I wouldn't call it huge. I think that what interest there is in sailing here in The States is mostly in actually DOING it, and not WATCHING it; still, I wouldn't call it huge.




By any measure, the interest in sailing in the US is small relative to "major" sports here. I don't think the IRL analogy holds water, but using it, when the AC actually has 400,000 + PAYING to see an event (Indy 500), we can then discuss whether its bigger than the IRL in the US. As we've argued elsewhere, the way to give it a chance to appeal to a broader market is by reverting to some form of nationality in the marketing. But that's a different thread! I would also argue the AC shouldn't be measured by the "same stick". It is more limited appeal in audience numbers, but a much more wealthy demo. That having been said, It still has to be priced correctly to be sustainable (scale again), and that's where the proverbial boat has been missed.

#112 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:23 PM


^ yeah, 'stingray' was on his mind when 300 other people, and two bands, are what he flew in for, for about 2 hrs. Whatever planet of thought you live on, I sure as heck don't live in.

Clean, where is the interview?



I forgot if it isn't followed by a smiley face you guys don't know it's a joke.....

So if ehman didn't give you the reacharound and invite you to larrys party...you must have paid to go!...

And if you didn't meet le at this party when did you gush..thanks for this party...Oh of course... it must have been at another ehman/le party...


Posted Image

#113 WetHog

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:23 PM

Living all my life in Annapolis I can attest to sailing not being on the level of other sports in the U.S. Take the VOR for example. Back in the late 90's when Baltimore/Annapolis had a stop over, or two, coverage in the local press was significant for the leg leading up to and during the stop overs, but that was it. Any other time leg results get brief 2 inch by 2 inch column space at most. AC the same way. Local beer can races get mentioned form time to time, and regional big races as well, but it is surprisenly sparse for the local newspaper servicing a siginficant sailing community like Annapolis. Nothing like I am sure they get in local rags in Australia and New Zealand.

Thats why I feel so strongly about Nationality being emphasized for the Cup. Hard to really spike interest in the U.S. when the home team is corporate driven and there is 1 American of note on the team. And I bet that also is a factor for why there has been no credible Australian entry since '95.

WetHog :ph34r:

#114 Surf City Racing

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 06:45 PM

By any measure, the interest in sailing in the US is small relative to "major" sports here. I don't think the IRL analogy holds water, but using it, when the AC actually has 400,000 + PAYING to see an event (Indy 500), we can then discuss whether its bigger than the IRL in the US. As we've argued elsewhere, the way to give it a chance to appeal to a broader market is by reverting to some form of nationality in the marketing. But that's a different thread! I would also argue the AC shouldn't be measured by the "same stick". It is more limited appeal in audience numbers, but a much more wealthy demo. That having been said, It still has to be priced correctly to be sustainable (scale again), and that's where the proverbial boat has been missed.


I used that analogy to illustrate what "huge" interest is, not as a direct comparison to the AC. I'm coming from the perspective of actually trying to "sell sailing" here in CA for the past 15 years or so. Discounting the NASCAR comparison, relative to itself, the interest in sailing is pretty minimal, and actually waning here in the US. The decline has been steady since about 1980 when US sail boat production saw an all time high. Not only has the state of vessel production declined, the people that actually sail has also declined, albeit at a slower pace.

Why does almost every West Marine have more fishing gear on display than sailing hardware? They have obviously done their market research.

I'm not saying that if you market an event properly, that it can't be economically viable. I'm just saying that it's not easy.

#115 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:03 PM

^ yeah, 'stingray' was on his mind when 300 other people, and two bands, are what he flew in for, for about 2 hrs. Whatever planet of thought you live on, I sure as heck don't live in.

Clean, where is the interview?


the hamsters that power Final Cut Pro are working their magic. Hoping to finish editing and compressing tonight, uploaded for tomorrow morning's front page.

About an hour, and I think I got to about 5 of the questions in all that time. Just a lot of talking and I wasn't about to tell these guys to STFU so I can ask more questions...

Good first chat though, and already we are talking about doing another one before Napoli.

#116 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

Murray and Worth's thoughts on nationality were the best part of the interview. Russell is not going to be happy ;)

#117 ~HHN92~

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:47 PM


^ yeah, 'stingray' was on his mind when 300 other people, and two bands, are what he flew in for, for about 2 hrs. Whatever planet of thought you live on, I sure as heck don't live in.

Clean, where is the interview?


About an hour, and I think I got to about 5 of the questions in all that time. Just a lot of talking and I wasn't about to tell these guys to STFU so I can ask more questions...


You mean, no question on the bomb threat????? :P

#118 ~Stingray~

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:50 PM

^ How does the bomb threat story go? IM was on the boat, right?

#119 WetHog

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 07:58 PM

What bomb threat?

WetHog :ph34r:

#120 KiwiJoker

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 08:13 PM

That said Kiwis have been behind almost all bad news to hit the AC in the last 25 years.


And it's a huge relief that Dunraven and his Irish shenanigans are now more than 100 years behind us!

#121 ~HHN92~

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 08:52 PM

^ How does the bomb threat story go? IM was on the boat, right?


1987 Cup, race 3, 6th leg I believe, the Kooka's chase boat slides up along side as they are on starboard tack. Rode along with them for a minute or two and then dropped back, with an RC boat following close behind. No idea why it was done at the time.

After the race it was announced that a threat was called-in saying a bomb was supposedly placed on KIII. It was asked what he said and IM says his reply to the guys in the boat was "so what's the bad news?", as KIII had not lead at any time during the match except for about 20 mins of the first leg of race 3. DC had sailed through them on a slam dunk tack, the first time KIII had been passed when leading after the start of a race up to that point from the defender series to the match.

#122 PDCWines

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 09:12 PM

Clean, fantastic! Looking forward to Monday's front page! Excited to hear the nationality rules comments from MnW. Though even with the mixed crews I still find myself thinking of the contestants as national teams. As an Italian American I'm rooting for both Luna Rossa and Oracle Racing. Would be great to see the cup stay in the US but equally great for Italia to compete for the trophy! Looking forward to more CupChat!

#123 WetHog

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:21 PM

Oh bomb threat in '87. I knew about that. Thought it was something during this cycle.

WetHog

#124 MAHGUAH_SCALPS_PILGRIMS

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 10:44 PM

Oh bomb threat in '87. I knew about that. Thought it was something during this cycle.

WetHog


well actually the sf fiasco has bombed out -- in a self inflicted -suicidal manner -Posted Image

#125 SellingSailing

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:32 PM

Murray and Worth's thoughts on nationality were the best part of the interview. Russell is not going to be happy ;)


Eager to hear that...my feelings on this topic are pretty clear!!

#126 ~Stingray~

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:38 PM


^ How does the bomb threat story go? IM was on the boat, right?


1987 Cup, race 3, 6th leg I believe, the Kooka's chase boat slides up along side as they are on starboard tack. Rode along with them for a minute or two and then dropped back, with an RC boat following close behind. No idea why it was done at the time.

After the race it was announced that a threat was called-in saying a bomb was supposedly placed on KIII. It was asked what he said and IM says his reply to the guys in the boat was "so what's the bad news?", as KIII had not lead at any time during the match except for about 20 mins of the first leg of race 3. DC had sailed through them on a slam dunk tack, the first time KIII had been passed when leading after the start of a race up to that point from the defender series to the match.

Very good, thanks.

I suppose it was an opportunity they/the skipper IM could have taken to try get the race abandoned, which is probably what sparked the instigator's threat?

#127 SellingSailing

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Posted 12 February 2012 - 11:44 PM


By any measure, the interest in sailing in the US is small relative to "major" sports here. I don't think the IRL analogy holds water, but using it, when the AC actually has 400,000 + PAYING to see an event (Indy 500), we can then discuss whether its bigger than the IRL in the US. As we've argued elsewhere, the way to give it a chance to appeal to a broader market is by reverting to some form of nationality in the marketing. But that's a different thread! I would also argue the AC shouldn't be measured by the "same stick". It is more limited appeal in audience numbers, but a much more wealthy demo. That having been said, It still has to be priced correctly to be sustainable (scale again), and that's where the proverbial boat has been missed.


I used that analogy to illustrate what "huge" interest is, not as a direct comparison to the AC. I'm coming from the perspective of actually trying to "sell sailing" here in CA for the past 15 years or so. Discounting the NASCAR comparison, relative to itself, the interest in sailing is pretty minimal, and actually waning here in the US. The decline has been steady since about 1980 when US sail boat production saw an all time high. Not only has the state of vessel production declined, the people that actually sail has also declined, albeit at a slower pace.

Why does almost every West Marine have more fishing gear on display than sailing hardware? They have obviously done their market research.

I'm not saying that if you market an event properly, that it can't be economically viable. I'm just saying that it's not easy.


Sounds like we're on the same page..I think the AC has great potential to reach an audience and corporate marketers (there may be no better engagement platform available - who doesn't enjoy spending a day on and around the water in beautiful cities?) But, it isn't easy and I simply believe the current approach was misjudged from the onset. Personally, I would have loved to see a world cup style approach, where the bar was low enough (cost wise) to encourage participation from around the globe with nationality at the fore in terms of its positioning. As a sports marketer, you just don't get many opportunities in life to spend the kind of $ available in this Cup, and it simply hasn't been spent wisely (which, makes it less likely to be spent again - at some point even a few hundred million is real money for a guy worth a billion or two!!). You know the sailors are in charge when the predominate marketing theme is the boat!!

#128 KiwiJoker

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:38 AM



By any measure, the interest in sailing in the US is small relative to "major" sports here. I don't think the IRL analogy holds water, but using it, when the AC actually has 400,000 + PAYING to see an event (Indy 500), we can then discuss whether its bigger than the IRL in the US. As we've argued elsewhere, the way to give it a chance to appeal to a broader market is by reverting to some form of nationality in the marketing. But that's a different thread! I would also argue the AC shouldn't be measured by the "same stick". It is more limited appeal in audience numbers, but a much more wealthy demo. That having been said, It still has to be priced correctly to be sustainable (scale again), and that's where the proverbial boat has been missed.


I used that analogy to illustrate what "huge" interest is, not as a direct comparison to the AC. I'm coming from the perspective of actually trying to "sell sailing" here in CA for the past 15 years or so. Discounting the NASCAR comparison, relative to itself, the interest in sailing is pretty minimal, and actually waning here in the US. The decline has been steady since about 1980 when US sail boat production saw an all time high. Not only has the state of vessel production declined, the people that actually sail has also declined, albeit at a slower pace.

Why does almost every West Marine have more fishing gear on display than sailing hardware? They have obviously done their market research.

I'm not saying that if you market an event properly, that it can't be economically viable. I'm just saying that it's not easy.


Sounds like we're on the same page..I think the AC has great potential to reach an audience and corporate marketers (there may be no better engagement platform available - who doesn't enjoy spending a day on and around the water in beautiful cities?) But, it isn't easy and I simply believe the current approach was misjudged from the onset. Personally, I would have loved to see a world cup style approach, where the bar was low enough (cost wise) to encourage participation from around the globe with nationality at the fore in terms of its positioning. As a sports marketer, you just don't get many opportunities in life to spend the kind of $ available in this Cup, and it simply hasn't been spent wisely (which, makes it less likely to be spent again - at some point even a few hundred million is real money for a guy worth a billion or two!!). You know the sailors are in charge when the predominate marketing theme is the boat!!


Lotta ground to cover here but a couple of points.

Public coverage of sailing comes from mainstream media where every sports editor without exception came through a college system that puts a massive premium on kicking, shooting, striking or otherwise handling spherical or nearly spherical objects. Add to that a shrinking "news hole" and the proliferation of new sports and sailing has been taking a back seat. The few sports editors or anchors who sail know that pushing sailing is the kiss of death.

So we come to the end of the Ver5 mammoths and it's time to recharge the AC. That's OK. It's happened before. Do you start with the premise that you want to remake the AC into "a world cup style approach, where the bar was low enough (cost wise) to encourage participation from around the globe with nationality at the fore in terms of its positioning." or do you introduce a new class that acknowledges the unique 161-year history and tradition of the America's Cup, one that emphasizes speed, excitement and ultimate athleticism. For me, that answer is real easy. Small relatively inexpensive boats within the grasp of all comers and a tight nationality regime have never been part of the AC. And should never.

Agreed there have been some major organisational and marketing blunders, a major downturn in the world economy and some sheer bad luck but I'm not about to start wringing my hands yet over shape and direction of AC34.

#129 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:49 AM

Video:


Watch live video from onthewateranarchy on Justin.tv

Audio:



Link to download MP3 file:

http://kiwi6.com/file/56osgt2c81

#130 eric e

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 11:24 AM

very good

always educational to hear the other side of the coin

anarchisti take note

simon, make sure you get to the 36min mark where Ian big notes nz

for doing what spineless aust can't

#131 yachtyakka

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 11:33 AM

another great job mr cleanB)

#132 dogwatch

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:34 PM

I think an hour with just IM would have more interesting. As it is we get a lot of RW spin. Not up there with the recent GD and BA interviews I'm afraid.

#133 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 01:49 PM

I agree that one-on-one would've been better, but for a first-time, get-to-know-you thing I think this was still pretty good. This is the first time we've been allowed to talk to the head of the AC since our 30-minute grab of Harold Bennett before race 1 of the 33rd Cup, and Worth might've been there to make sure I didn't talk Murray into a corner or something.

#134 ~Stingray~

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 02:01 PM

Listening to it now, am glad RW is in it too. Very interesting comments.

#135 dogwatch

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:05 PM

Worth might've been there to make sure I didn't talk Murray into a corner or something.


Yes that seems quite likely.

#136 jhc

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 03:39 PM

Great interview! Thanks for representing, 'mr.clean'.

"Worth might've been there to make sure I didn't talk Murray into a corner or something."(mc)

Feels more like worth was there to make sure murray didn't get all the credit if something went well.

Always have been a fan of iain murray. Obvious that his interest, and passion in the sport (and larry's money) is what is holding the plan together. Also obvious that the rest of the 'team' is just tagging along, making his job more difficult.

At least one guy has a vision of what the sport could be, too bad he is not calling more of the shots...

I really enjoyed the comment re: color 7, and the 18s in sydney harbor being the longest running event/media partnership in sports history. Gee, wonder who put that together?

#137 SellingSailing

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:10 PM




By any measure, the interest in sailing in the US is small relative to "major" sports here. I don't think the IRL analogy holds water, but using it, when the AC actually has 400,000 + PAYING to see an event (Indy 500), we can then discuss whether its bigger than the IRL in the US. As we've argued elsewhere, the way to give it a chance to appeal to a broader market is by reverting to some form of nationality in the marketing. But that's a different thread! I would also argue the AC shouldn't be measured by the "same stick". It is more limited appeal in audience numbers, but a much more wealthy demo. That having been said, It still has to be priced correctly to be sustainable (scale again), and that's where the proverbial boat has been missed.


I used that analogy to illustrate what "huge" interest is, not as a direct comparison to the AC. I'm coming from the perspective of actually trying to "sell sailing" here in CA for the past 15 years or so. Discounting the NASCAR comparison, relative to itself, the interest in sailing is pretty minimal, and actually waning here in the US. The decline has been steady since about 1980 when US sail boat production saw an all time high. Not only has the state of vessel production declined, the people that actually sail has also declined, albeit at a slower pace.

Why does almost every West Marine have more fishing gear on display than sailing hardware? They have obviously done their market research.

I'm not saying that if you market an event properly, that it can't be economically viable. I'm just saying that it's not easy.


Sounds like we're on the same page..I think the AC has great potential to reach an audience and corporate marketers (there may be no better engagement platform available - who doesn't enjoy spending a day on and around the water in beautiful cities?) But, it isn't easy and I simply believe the current approach was misjudged from the onset. Personally, I would have loved to see a world cup style approach, where the bar was low enough (cost wise) to encourage participation from around the globe with nationality at the fore in terms of its positioning. As a sports marketer, you just don't get many opportunities in life to spend the kind of $ available in this Cup, and it simply hasn't been spent wisely (which, makes it less likely to be spent again - at some point even a few hundred million is real money for a guy worth a billion or two!!). You know the sailors are in charge when the predominate marketing theme is the boat!!


Lotta ground to cover here but a couple of points.

Public coverage of sailing comes from mainstream media where every sports editor without exception came through a college system that puts a massive premium on kicking, shooting, striking or otherwise handling spherical or nearly spherical objects. Add to that a shrinking "news hole" and the proliferation of new sports and sailing has been taking a back seat. The few sports editors or anchors who sail know that pushing sailing is the kiss of death.

So we come to the end of the Ver5 mammoths and it's time to recharge the AC. That's OK. It's happened before. Do you start with the premise that you want to remake the AC into "a world cup style approach, where the bar was low enough (cost wise) to encourage participation from around the globe with nationality at the fore in terms of its positioning." or do you introduce a new class that acknowledges the unique 161-year history and tradition of the America's Cup, one that emphasizes speed, excitement and ultimate athleticism. For me, that answer is real easy. Small relatively inexpensive boats within the grasp of all comers and a tight nationality regime have never been part of the AC. And should never.

Agreed there have been some major organisational and marketing blunders, a major downturn in the world economy and some sheer bad luck but I'm not about to start wringing my hands yet over shape and direction of AC34.


Agree lotta ground to cover...but...

I AM concerned over the direction..Even in the recent past, we've gone from a "full regatta" at AC 32, to a DOG match for 33, to three challengers for 34, creating a trend line that starts to look unsustainable. I think you're right that the AC can't be within the grasp of ALL comers, but there's a LOT of room between where we are today (inaccessible to all but 4 whose sole qualifications are that they can write a check - and one of those only through government subsidy) and "open to all comers". The role of sailing, the transfer of technology, the media landscape etc. have all changed dramatically (understatement!) over the course of the AC's history so it had better reexamine its marketing opportunity or it CAN become completely irrelevant. How many people are in a position to spend 100+ MM dollars (or potentially significantly more) to compete for a trophy that is proving itself to have limited value in the market? And running a "let's see what happens this cycle" approach every 3, or4...or 5? years isn't going to get marketers and broadcasters excited to invest. This media environment is unforgiving - and what I see is a long-term downward trend that is mitigated only by the fact that the AC has such great and rich history. I for one say it needs to change, and this very well financed cycle had the opportunity to do so and, really, only changed the boat. I don't think the boat was ever the real issue (see technology transfer above). It's a sailors approach, not a market driven approach.

#138 Surf City Racing

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:21 PM

Another great interview, Clean. I like watching you try to curtail the F Bomb! :D

Both Iian and Richard seem humble, willing to learn, very smart. They've both spent some time in other countries, with other fleets, and my suggestion to them would be to go spend time with some SF Fleets. It'd be a heck of a learning experience, and they'd definitely get a more solid understanding of the market here. Invite the SF 18 skiff fleet for drinks sometime, listen.

#139 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:25 PM

I don't know that your statement about the boat is right. As a spectator, I lost interest around 2003 - by then, the boats were already obsolete compared to any maxi and it was like watching old stock cars race. I guess stock car racing is fun to watch, but I'm really an F-1 guy, and that's what the new boats should do for me and for many around the world.

There is NO question at all that the choice of boat has added massively to the international exposure for the ACWS and eventually AC. More importantly, the images and video of the ACWS has done more to dispel the image of sailing as the purview of Thurston Howell III than anything in recent memory.

Is it enough? Fuck if I know!

#140 trimariner

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 04:50 PM

Thanks Clean, another very interesting interview, enjoyed both mens comments and feel a bit more optimistic about the longer term prospects for the AC. Shame its not in maxi tris but I appreciate the cost, logistics make the cats more appealing. I have to say however that the Mod 70 tour is going to give them some serious competition for the hearts and minds of the worlds top end sailers and their public, being real ocean going inshore offshore and round the world boats. Yeah, Im biased I know but from experience. Cheers.

#141 SellingSailing

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

I agree that one-on-one would've been better, but for a first-time, get-to-know-you thing I think this was still pretty good. This is the first time we've been allowed to talk to the head of the AC since our 30-minute grab of Harold Bennett before race 1 of the 33rd Cup, and Worth might've been there to make sure I didn't talk Murray into a corner or something.


nice job...

#142 theycallmegod

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:51 PM

Interview posted up on the official AC facebook- you're getting to be the establishment!

#143 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 05:56 PM

you're getting to be the establishment!

EMF

#144 acintel

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:21 PM

Clean, you were really nice with them. Good job though.

Worth has been monopolising the speak time to say very little. I agree a TV Deal is worth only the big event so normal to be late and I agree the Match will be great. But what a pile of shit he's told you over the interview. He pretended to be humble, but if he truly was he would not have made half of the mistakes he did over the past years.

#145 GO IRISH!

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:21 PM


you're getting to be the establishment!

EMF


Clean,
I like the Stock Car comment, when TVNZ air the ACWS races in New Zealand (youtube feed is blocked) the telecast reminds me of a NASCAR race with pit reporters. I would love to ask Ian why New Zealand (Auckland) has not been named as a ACWS host city. With only 3 teams participating in the Big dance it would be nice to see each of the 3 get a ACWS event. The whole new area that is built across the street from EMTZ HQ is a perfect addition to the already exciting Viaduct area and the New Events Center is a great area to play as event HQ.....

#146 Martin X Moleski SJ

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 06:35 PM

Well done, Clean--best yet.

Nice work, too, on getting the Inmarsat video removed and a clickable image substituted. Much appreciated.

Marty

#147 Hank Chinaski

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 07:23 PM

It was a little scary when RW said the Deed is getting in the way of their plan for the AC.

#148 ~Stingray~

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:04 PM

A few random comments.

Clean directed a couple questions to the wrong person. For example, the one near the end asking IM instead of RW about the importance of the American market, when RW is so obviously the TV and marketing one. But it's something IM recovered from and dealt with remarkably well, by coming back to the skiffs and then talking about the larger sport in general, maybe helping the Olympics avoid general recalls, etc. RW kind of jumped on the early question after Clean's self-congratulatory 'acalphabet' line and the request for a description about the separation between EA and RM; but RW's answer was very good and really got the conversation rolling. IM is great too but that guy RW speaks very well, I think the whole thing was much livelier as a result of his inclusion and it's one of the questions I'm guessing that IM was more than happy to let RW take.

And Clean claimed to have all kinds of mysterious insider complaints and criticisms having been sent to him, but he never articulated what any of them were and instead just insinuated they had done a whole bunch of things wrong. What things? Well the two were left to try come up with it themselves. IM said basically "Umm, no, your question is baseless and besides - I am getting the exact opposite from people, those I am talking to are getting increasingly engaged. RW mentioned the night-time entertainment at SD as being a waste of effort and a lesson learned, and mentioned the revised spectator boat numbers (down from 1000 to 800, the new number a reality- based Fleet Week count - so big deal, still not a million miles from reality) but he really didn't conjure up issues or back down to any imaginary allegations either. On the semi-accusatory question to IM about ACRM's independence, well he almost literally just laughed that one off too, talked about who the real stakeholders are.

IM has a lot on his hands in SF but seems quietly confident in most of it, the one slightly ominous 'imminent decision time' comment aside. RW is confident too, surprisingly so after you read all the crap directed at him around here by the self-professed marketing experts. A major US TV network negotiation being close to completion is a big deal. That 'east coast' venue city discussion he mentions could be too. His comments about the AC being 'able to punch its own weight' in the sports marketplace. His self-admittedly-small role in helping ETNZ re-secure the E, and the continuing efforts to help others. Both of their strong confidences in more teams than the Big Four making it into AC72s, but it not mattering too much this time around anyway. The short aside from IM that 'many outsiders' are coming and telling him they missed it this time, but they won't the next time, during the longer range perspective / continuity segment. The ongoing talks IM referred to when taking Clean's nationality outburst, about how it is one of many areas the teams are in discussions about - which also include boats, boat sizes, technical simplifications, formats, costs, etc, and how it would be good if all those Aussies had an Oz team to sail for. (btw, RC did try to introduce a starting point on sailor nationality at 20% and it was in the original Protocol, but both IM and RW may be unaware of the attempt coming as it did prior to their arrivals, and so maybe that's how the shot taken at RC got by them too)

Anyway, despite how much "the sky is falling" talk there is here at SAAC sometimes, these two real world guys strike as a little overworked but still confident, competent, and complementing of each others roles. They came off sounding plenty good to me. Nice check in. Thanks, Clean (and no, I could not have done it better!)

One subject I'd like them to broach is if the ACWS might potentially become too successful if they put it on the stage in SF during summer 2013. ie: could too much commercial success serve as a discouragement to stepping up to the AC72's and the LVC/AC proper. I hope they don't get a disproportionate share of what's important, the limelight, once the Big Boys start getting the business done.

#149 Indio

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:09 PM

It was a little scary when RW said the Deed is getting in the way of their plan for the AC.


Therein lies RW's worthlessness!!

#150 GauchoGreg

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 08:09 PM

I don't know that your statement about the boat is right. As a spectator, I lost interest around 2003 - by then, the boats were already obsolete compared to any maxi and it was like watching old stock cars race. I guess stock car racing is fun to watch, but I'm really an F-1 guy, and that's what the new boats should do for me and for many around the world.

There is NO question at all that the choice of boat has added massively to the international exposure for the ACWS and eventually AC. More importantly, the images and video of the ACWS has done more to dispel the image of sailing as the purview of Thurston Howell III than anything in recent memory.

Is it enough? Fuck if I know!


^. Absolutely right. The old boats were hopeless for getting high interest from the sailing community, or any real interest from non-sailors. You have to have some perception of speed and the idea the vehicle you are watching is among the fastest of its type.

#151 ~HHN92~

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:19 PM

I think Clean asked a few questions, and IM & RW gave him answers. Good work on a first time chance to get an innerview.

I can sense where it has been a lot of work to push the rock up the hill for Worth. Talented or not, the right person or not, he has a hard job to sell a sailing event to US broadcasters where the last couple of AC events did not do well. I could hear that strain in his voice when talking about going to the various networks. I think the nationalsim strikes a chord, as the latest talk about the Italian coach being fired/quitting the British team and some calling for a Brit to be the new coach debate is an interesting event to watch in relation to our discussions about the AC.

Anyway, I feel it was a good job by Clean and it has provided a bit of insight to what is going-on with the AC-Alphabet, and I look forward to the next one.

Thanks.

#152 Alpha FB

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 09:51 PM

Nice talk, they seemed quite open and willing to communicate about what's going on, but there still seemed to be an elephant in the room that was alluded to a couple of times, when Clean asked them about their independence and RW made the comment that they would need 3 to 5 years to build up the brand but they do not have that amount of time.

The elephant is the question of finance: IM referred to the structure described in the protocol, but the basic setup seemed to expect the set up to be able to cover its costs. Now we all know that this is not happening, so the question that perhaps should have been asked is: how much longer is LE willing to foot the bill for this whole thing to get traction?

There is the issue with continuity after AC34, should Oracle not retain the cup for GGYC, and from RW's comments, he seemed to make it clear that in his opinion the horizon to September 2013 is too close for the media brand to reach its targets...

#153 sunseeker

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:23 PM

Nice talk, they seemed quite open and willing to communicate about what's going on, but there still seemed to be an elephant in the room that was alluded to a couple of times, when Clean asked them about their independence and RW made the comment that they would need 3 to 5 years to build up the brand but they do not have that amount of time.

The elephant is the question of finance: IM referred to the structure described in the protocol, but the basic setup seemed to expect the set up to be able to cover its costs. Now we all know that this is not happening, so the question that perhaps should have been asked is: how much longer is LE willing to foot the bill for this whole thing to get traction?

There is the issue with continuity after AC34, should Oracle not retain the cup for GGYC, and from RW's comments, he seemed to make it clear that in his opinion the horizon to September 2013 is too close for the media brand to reach its targets...




If the above of what you say is true about September 2013 being too close for the media brand to reach its targets, then what did Worth sell to Coutts who sold that to Ellison? Is Worth just now figuring out that he can't deliver what he promised Ellison? It's sort of funny, the Cup is more than a 150 years old, so it is actually older than "the media" for the most part. And there is no real need to ask how much longer Ellison is willing to foot the bill, it's not like anyone other than Larry really knows that answer, and he tends to not talk about that sort of thing. Besides, he's already told them to cut back, look at how many of Worth's old friends got the ax after San Diego.

#154 kiwi_jon

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 10:52 PM

^. Absolutely right. The old boats were hopeless for getting high interest from the sailing community, or any real interest from non-sailors. You have to have some perception of speed and the idea the vehicle you are watching is among the fastest of its type.


You keep saying this. How about giving us some figures to back this up. I suspect you are equating the US lack of interest in the AC and the sport of sailing in general with the rest of the world.

AC32 had 2.9 Billion cumulative views, TV and online. Those figures are not from ACRM or Alinghi but from AC32's technology partner Alcatel-Lucent. ACRM put the figure at over 4 Billion cumulative views but by the the time you subtract the fudge factor it drops it down to Alcatel-Lucents figure.

AC33 had no more than 50,000 consecutive views for the two races based on figures from ESPN and OR.

AC34 is struggling to get any interest at all outside of a small percentage of the sailing community.

#155 maxmini

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Posted 13 February 2012 - 11:44 PM



^. Absolutely right. The old boats were hopeless for getting high interest from the sailing community, or any real interest from non-sailors. You have to have some perception of speed and the idea the vehicle you are watching is among the fastest of its type.


You keep saying this. How about giving us some figures to back this up. I suspect you are equating the US lack of interest in the AC and the sport of sailing in general with the rest of the world.

AC32 had 2.9 Billion cumulative views, TV and online. Those figures are not from ACRM or Alinghi but from AC32's technology partner Alcatel-Lucent. ACRM put the figure at over 4 Billion cumulative views but by the the time you subtract the fudge factor it drops it down to Alcatel-Lucents figure.

AC33 had no more than 50,000 consecutive views for the two races based on figures from ESPN and OR.

AC34 is struggling to get any interest at all outside of a small percentage of the sailing community.


Not to mention that in the age of twitter, smart phones, tablets , YouTube etc when the numbers should be substationaly higher they aren't . The AC is about competition not just speed .

#156 WetHog

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 12:34 AM

Got up to the 44 minute mark on the interview and the one thing I want to say is, thank you Clean. Thank you for your comments on Nationality. Especially the "American's are flag waving people" and the JS comment. The way to make American's give a shit about the AC again is to make Nationality a big part of it. You did an excellent job getting that point across, F bombs and all.

WetHog :ph34r:

#157 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:12 AM

Nice talk, they seemed quite open and willing to communicate about what's going on, but there still seemed to be an elephant in the room that was alluded to a couple of times, when Clean asked them about their independence and RW made the comment that they would need 3 to 5 years to build up the brand but they do not have that amount of time.

RW has said for a long time that the mission to make this get traction is one he took on, but did not design, and that the format could take even several cycles to mature. You get the sense that LE must realize it too; and in yesterday's interview at VS, TT suggested the same.

We are all curious about if they will sign lucrative sponsors and broadcast deals (and RW has suggested the TV might be 20% of revenue rather than the 80% in some sport events) but they aren't going to publish anything until after its conclusion; and even then probably not down to the by-company name since that's all business-proprietary.

In following what he's been saying over time and by what RW emphatically emphasized in this latest piece, his confidence in this 'product' is actually growing. Maybe in the end the bottom line will be closer than the hundreds-of-millions dollar hole many are expecting so far.

#158 GauchoGreg

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:13 AM


^. Absolutely right. The old boats were hopeless for getting high interest from the sailing community, or any real interest from non-sailors. You have to have some perception of speed and the idea the vehicle you are watching is among the fastest of its type.


You keep saying this. How about giving us some figures to back this up. I suspect you are equating the US lack of interest in the AC and the sport of sailing in general with the rest of the world.

AC32 had 2.9 Billion cumulative views, TV and online. Those figures are not from ACRM or Alinghi but from AC32's technology partner Alcatel-Lucent. ACRM put the figure at over 4 Billion cumulative views but by the the time you subtract the fudge factor it drops it down to Alcatel-Lucents figure.

AC33 had no more than 50,000 consecutive views for the two races based on figures from ESPN and OR.

AC34 is struggling to get any interest at all outside of a small percentage of the sailing community.


America couldn't care less. France couldn't care less. Hardly anyone cares in Great Britain, and even Australia couldnt care enough to send a boat to the AC the past few times. Spain, Germany, Scandinavian counties, Canada, Latin America???? Nope nope nope. How many people who actually sail really have given a damn? Not enough to get any kind of significant broadcasting. I would say that, as the divide in performance between the AC boats and that of Maxis, ORMA, RTW record boats, Open 60s, and Volvo has grown, the interest in the AC among the sailing community has shrunk.

Fact of the matter, when it comes to racing, most people who like to watch racing, like watching what they know is fast. Anyone with an understanding of sailing has known the AC boats are slugs, and anyone who was not into sailing had not compelling reason to watch boats bobbing around, which is about all a non-sailor would see.

#159 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 01:23 AM

^ Agreed. RW mentioned how IM is concerned about how devilishly difficult the AC72's will be to race, but how much he relishes it for the marketability.

#160 ~HHN92~

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:30 AM

Just watched the video after listeneing to the audio this morning.

I think the telling part of the getting traction in the US was the comment about the concert after the days sailing, and no one was there. It seems to tie-in to the lack of promotion outside of the confines of where the event area was being held, and the close knit sailing community that follows the AC. Do they have the money to place ads on the TV, local print, and sign media? Do they care to?

I know the TV deal may change things, and maybe expand the scope, but they are going to have to reach out beyond the normal sources to have a chance to get something going. Get these guys on the morning TV programs, NPR and other radio interviews, spread it around. Any yokel who has some stunt or book or whatever I hear on these formats all the time.

Can't they do this?

#161 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 03:47 AM

Just watched the video after listeneing to the audio this morning.

I think the telling part of the getting traction in the US was the comment about the concert after the days sailing, and no one was there. It seems to tie-in to the lack of promotion outside of the confines of where the event area was being held, and the close knit sailing community that follows the AC. Do they have the money to place ads on the TV, local print, and sign media? Do they care to?

I know the TV deal may change things, and maybe expand the scope, but they are going to have to reach out beyond the normal sources to have a chance to get something going. Get these guys on the morning TV programs, NPR and other radio interviews, spread it around. Any yokel who has some stunt or book or whatever I hear on these formats all the time.

Can't they do this?

The arrangement in SD was nothing like Cascais or Plymouth. A small stage, a confined area, outdoors in the rain, when plenty of great stuff was happening just a few blocks away up in the Gaslamp District.

I don't know the arrangement details in Naples but apparently according to a link that Seis posted, Shakiri is going to be performing.

Posted Image


There is a LOT being arranged for in Venezia by who-knows-who, but including by the the Prada Foundation's Grand Canale new gigs. That place looks stunning, Miuccia Bertelli being behind a lot of that.

Posted Image


Naples and Venice will waay overshadow what we've seen so far.... definitely hope to make one of those two weeks, if I can just talk Stingette into it :)

#162 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:07 AM

Objective
make a success of an event base on sailing and the Deed

Result:
half half
-not a success considered the limited audience
-success considered the new boats and show

Excuse:
credible : "we have to prove it works before"

Men:
IM was very lauded. we have to remember he has to make working a complicated machine, but nothing new.
RW has been very criticized but has to develop sailing as a visible sport which has never been accomplished before. Terra incognita.
The Brit (european culture ?) is so much refined, speaks well, and is stuctured. But, can they all stop to say "you know" 10 times a minute...

Key issues

- spectacular: yes

- predictable for TV: yes

- nationality rules: yes and no, not a real national competition

- venues: failure, they had to find competitors venues and they could have found national TVs

- Brand: RW says exactly what I allways said, how can you attract executives who cannot understand the concept, make a difference between the AC and the world series.

- Deed: there is no way you can make long term plans based on the Deed, you can promiss no long term investments to executives.


Conclusion

I really hope RW will succeed to promote sailing as a major media event.
However the only conditions are:

- simple branded events. Business know that you cannot sell complicated concepts

- detach the event from the Deed

The gordian know was to try to make an event for billionnaires as an event for the masses.

What happens if Oracle loses the Cup ? I cannot think that RW did not think about it. If not, it is not too late.

#163 maxmini

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:18 AM


Just watched the video after listeneing to the audio this morning.

I think the telling part of the getting traction in the US was the comment about the concert after the days sailing, and no one was there. It seems to tie-in to the lack of promotion outside of the confines of where the event area was being held, and the close knit sailing community that follows the AC. Do they have the money to place ads on the TV, local print, and sign media? Do they care to?

I know the TV deal may change things, and maybe expand the scope, but they are going to have to reach out beyond the normal sources to have a chance to get something going. Get these guys on the morning TV programs, NPR and other radio interviews, spread it around. Any yokel who has some stunt or book or whatever I hear on these formats all the time.

Can't they do this?

The arrangement in SD was nothing like Cascais or Plymouth. A small stage, a confined area, outdoors in the rain, when plenty of great stuff was happening just a few blocks away up in the Gaslamp District.

I don't know the arrangement details in Naples but apparently according to a link that Seis posted, Shakiri is going to be performing.

Posted Image


There is a LOT being arranged for in Venezia by who-knows-who, but including by the the Prada Foundation's Grand Canale new gigs. That place looks stunning, Miuccia Bertelli being behind a lot of that.

Posted Image


Naples and Venice will waay overshadow what we've seen so far.... definitely hope to make one of those two weeks, if I can just talk Stingette into it :)


With such a light air venue as Venice Shakira will have to perform topless to save the day.

#164 acintel

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:40 AM

...RW has suggested the TV might be 20% of revenue rather than the 80% in some sport events...


I could agree if total revenue is about 25M. Am not talking tv, but global.

their initial projections was to generate 50M from TV. Whoever made that forecast doesn't deserve a job. If RW, he should draw the conclusion.

#165 ~Stingray~

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:46 AM

their initial projections was to generate 50M from TV. Whoever made that forecast doesn't deserve a job. If RW, he should draw the conclusion.

Link?

And if the 50M figure comes in higher or lower then what diff does it make to anyone, including you?

Still waiting for PH, he's the one with the ability to post Front Page anti-RW rants. PH, what's your take on what he told us there?

#166 acintel

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:52 AM


their initial projections was to generate 50M from TV. Whoever made that forecast doesn't deserve a job. If RW, he should draw the conclusion.

Link?

And if the 50M figure is different then what diff does it make to anyone, including you?


This is not an info to be found on a link. But ask your friends at ACXX to see if correct or not.
It makes no difference to me. It only proves how clueless they are.

#167 sunseeker

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:56 AM


their initial projections was to generate 50M from TV. Whoever made that forecast doesn't deserve a job. If RW, he should draw the conclusion.

Link?

And if the 50M figure is different then what diff does it make to anyone, including you?


Whether that 50m figure is correct or not I don't know, but what is an issue is the repeated overestimates of just about everything by ACEA and that reflects badly on them now. Given that they were wrong then, and not by a little, what makes their new statements any more correct. Then add in Larry saying 16 or whatever teams, and Russell now saying the racing will be great with just 3 challengers. The basic math doesn't add up and anyone who has to make a deal with ACEA now will look at their history and make their deal accordingly. Why it should matter to you is that the event runs the risk of being less than it could have been if ACEA had just been more honest from the start. The America's Cup isn't the only thing happening in San Francisco, there is alot of other stuff that happens there too, and right now all it looks like is a really rich guy trying to get special favors from the city for his personal boat race, and his promotion arm is just making everything up as they go along, and calling it a "learning experience". Personally I want to see this who thing succeed, but it makes it awful hard to be optimistic in face of ACEA's track record to date. i wonder how all those former ACEA employees feel about Worth getting his learning experience while continuing to get a paycheck while they are out of a job? ACEA's overestimates sure matter alot to those people and their families.

#168 dogwatch

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:02 AM

I would love to ask Ian why New Zealand (Auckland) has not been named as a ACWS host city.


Iain's said that elsewhere. Too expensive to ship the circus to the southern hemisphere. So much for a "World" series.

#169 dogwatch

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:08 AM

RW is confident too, surprisingly so after you read all the crap directed at him around here by the self-professed marketing experts.




Posted Image


IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
You should consider the possibility you have failed to grasp the situation


#170 dogwatch

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:17 AM

^. Absolutely right. The old boats were hopeless for getting high interest from the sailing community, or any real interest from non-sailors. You have to have some perception of speed and the idea the vehicle you are watching is among the fastest of its type.


Have you actually seen an AC45 sailing in a decent breeze, because I have, and they do not look particularly fast. Compared to (say) an 18-foot skiff, they do not look dramatic. And actually, in the context of everyday experience, they aren't fast. They are moving at the speed of suburban traffic. The idea that the boats of themselves provide a great leap forward in terms of presentation of sailing to the public is just wishful thinking.

I would say that, as the divide in performance between the AC boats and that of Maxis, ORMA, RTW record boats, Open 60s, and Volvo has grown, the interest in the AC among the sailing community has shrunk.


If it was all about the boats then presumably Britain would be fascinated by the VOR. Actually interest pretty much disappeared once there was no identifiably British team. It's got sod all to do with how fast the boats are. It's about national interest, human interest and something happening in your neighbourhood.

#171 dogwatch

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:23 AM

, Shakiri is going to be performing.


Good to know you are down with the kids, Stingray. However I think you mean Shakira.

#172 Te Kooti

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:44 AM

[It's sort of funny, the Cup is more than a 150 years old, so it is actually older than "the media" for the most part.



During the Lipton and Shamrock era, crowds gathered outside London (UK) newspaper offices to see model boats being moved (by boys hired for this purpose) across a board representing the race course.

Most data arrived tied to the legs of carrier pigeons.

Marconi changed all this.

But, at the time, those crowds were large, excited and boisterous. It was fun!

Even though Lipton was a rich lister, he had a fair bit of popular support.

#173 Dixie

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:01 AM

SR, I am thinking about Venice and would love to see you and the Stingette there.

I liked the interview. I think the two played off each other well, I think Alan was quite respectful - has anyone EVER seem him apologize for an F-Bomb? Ever? I saw in the set up to his question what was going to happen with Iain - people love him and don't begrudge the works he's doing with RM. As for RW, I thought Alan lobbed, given the recent cover story on SA. I would have liked to see him air the criticisms and I think they were open to it...but the tease may have been just as effective. Overall, I found it interesting, felt that the nationality part may have been the most revealing part of the interview.

I too was puzzled by RW saying to the sailing media that the Deed was getting in the way of his work, but expect he meant it just that way. Not that he wanted to change it, but that following the letter of the deed can be difficult for someone tasked with the commercial side of the business.

#174 dogwatch

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:15 AM

It's sort of funny, the Cup is more than a 150 years old, so it is actually older than "the media" for the most part.


Not really. The Relation aller Fürnemmen und gedenckwürdigen Historien began publication in 1605. The The New Hampshire Gazette was first published in 1756 and is still doing so. And so on.

#175 Xlot

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:31 AM



Posted Image


IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
You should consider the possibility you have failed to grasp the situation


Nice output today - this being my favorite, obviously :D

#176 maxmini

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 08:23 AM



their initial projections was to generate 50M from TV. Whoever made that forecast doesn't deserve a job. If RW, he should draw the conclusion.

Link?

And if the 50M figure is different then what diff does it make to anyone, including you?


Whether that 50m figure is correct or not I don't know, but what is an issue is the repeated overestimates of just about everything by ACEA and that reflects badly on them now. Given that they were wrong then, and not by a little, what makes their new statements any more correct. Then add in Larry saying 16 or whatever teams, and Russell now saying the racing will be great with just 3 challengers. The basic math doesn't add up and anyone who has to make a deal with ACEA now will look at their history and make their deal accordingly. Why it should matter to you is that the event runs the risk of being less than it could have been if ACEA had just been more honest from the start. The America's Cup isn't the only thing happening in San Francisco, there is alot of other stuff that happens there too, and right now all it looks like is a really rich guy trying to get special favors from the city for his personal boat race, and his promotion arm is just making everything up as they go along, and calling it a "learning experience". Personally I want to see this who thing succeed, but it makes it awful hard to be optimistic in face of ACEA's track record to date. i wonder how all those former ACEA employees feel about Worth getting his learning experience while continuing to get a paycheck while they are out of a job? ACEA's overestimates sure matter alot to those people and their families.


+1

With every exaggerated claim falling by the way side another brick in the credibility wall is removed. Wether it is 400 containers , sixteen challengers or one billion $$$ , each overblown projection that doesn't come anywhere near fruition makes believing each new claim that much harder. This was a uphill battle to begin with and they are only making it tougher ,not easier as they go along. They would have been much better off to under promise and overachieve , not the other way around.

#177 seis

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:04 AM

I don't know if they are doing right or wrong.
What I do know is that nobody has ever traveled this path.
Terra incognita.
No one has ever tried to do what Ellison and his team want to do.
And Ellison does not need that to defend the Cup.
The tone of the comments in this discussion reminds me of the wise comments of the courtiers while the discoverers were risking their lives by conquering new lands.
Bullshit nonsense.

#178 dogwatch

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:14 AM

No one has ever tried to do what Ellison and his team want to do.


Oh for fuck's sake, they are running a boat race and televising it. That's all. It isn't a manned mission to Mars. Fundamentally they aren't doing anything that ESS or VOR or others don't already do.

#179 eric e

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:17 AM

I don't know if they are doing right or wrong.
What I do know is that nobody has ever traveled this path.
Terra incognita.
No one has ever tried to do what Ellison and his team want to do.
And Ellison does not need that to defend the Cup.
The tone of the comments in this discussion reminds me of the wise comments of the courtiers while the discoverers were risking their lives by conquering new lands.
Bullshit nonsense.



but it appears you do know what etnz are doing

and you don't like it

same terra incognita

same bullshit

different source



#180 seis

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:21 AM

wise comment

#181 SW Sailor

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 02:57 PM


No one has ever tried to do what Ellison and his team want to do.


Oh for fuck's sake, they are running a boat race and televising it. That's all. It isn't a manned mission to Mars. Fundamentally they aren't doing anything that ESS or VOR or others don't already do.

I understand your point, and also think that's a gross oversimplification of what is happening with AC34, as evidenced by hundreds of posts on this forum.

Seems to me that those that follow the AC closely are largely traditionalists - looking for a race in monos. How much skepticism immediately surfaced when they announced the switch to cats ? Quite a bit, and some would still rather see monos, but that ignores the comments of those actually racing the boats. Maybe it will be appreciated if/when they go back to monos.

AC races have been televised for decades, but not with the advances in technology that have been developed specifically for this series.

GPS technology with 2cm accuracy has removed any doubt about what happened on the course, with umpires in front of television screens making the calls.

The AC45's have provided a good learning platform to bring teams down the curve with wing sailed cats, and also level the playing field. Not much leveling of the playing field in past cups, like none.

Maybe LE should have said AC72's in SF in 2013, see you there and good luck, but it seems like their is a fair amount of heavy lifting going on in the background to stage a competitive AC, none of it easy. Some may not totally appreciate what's happening, but it doesn't make the load any lighter. Listen to the guys that are actually making it happen and you'll get a different story.

#182 Mariner

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:23 PM

Not an all in all too revealing an interview IMHO.

Aside from a couple honest statements that we all probably already knew to be true, just not that revealing.

Too bad Clean could not have gotten each on their own. Probably wouldv'e been more interesting.

#183 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:33 PM

Not an all in all too revealing an interview IMHO.

Aside from a couple honest statements that we all probably already knew to be true, just not that revealing.

Too bad Clean could not have gotten each on their own. Probably wouldv'e been more interesting.


We can guess that the PR organized the interview with both of them in order to prevent conflicting comments.

That often happens in companies when there is a conflit or,........... when their respective boss have one.

#184 ro!

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 04:52 PM

The Bald Ego, the Bad Egg and the Good Guy...

Your fanboys here will tell you it was a great interview ...but you had the two of them right there and threw them a load of soft balls...and even when you had an opportunaty to get after worth you didn't take it...worths reply to the question well what did you get wrong in this shitfight... was...oh nobody went to the free concert in SD... you all seemed to forget that nobody went to the regatta either,...

IM is a great guy, not totally comfortable in an interview but some real questions would have helped...and the snake oil salesman just slithered thru it all with your help...it will be interesting to find out how much help he really was in TNZ keeping emirates above the door, and how about telling us just which sponsers the alphabet has introduced to the teams and venues, or why there is no event in NZ or OZ in the world series of the world ...

Great bit introducing the fucking dog...and the mini clean in the little box helped them see how serious the whole thing was, you really carried the h stern image with the 'all about me' bit in the middle... Where's my fucking american? you asked... well it's you dude...
It could be larry of course, because it's his ego that this whole thing revolves around..

Nationalism has had nothing to do with AC except cic which seems to have been circumvented this time around so that russ can get all his shit built in n zed instead of the US...but don't ask why and keep waving that big US flag...

Oh ...between the three of you there are over 250 ' you knows' in under an hour...must be a new record even for you...

On the plus side for you... no one else is doing these type of interviews so we don't have anything to compare it to...

ciao..indeed...

#185 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:03 PM

AC32 had 2.9 Billion cumulative views, TV and online. Those figures are not from ACRM or Alinghi but from AC32's technology partner Alcatel-Lucent. ACRM put the figure at over 4 Billion cumulative views but by the the time you subtract the fudge factor it drops it down to Alcatel-Lucents figure.

AC33 had no more than 50,000 consecutive views for the two races based on figures from ESPN and OR.

AC34 is struggling to get any interest at all outside of a small percentage of the sailing community.

You really don't understand how the numbers work.

One hint: Cumulative views is the most valueless number in broadcasting, and the only reason anyone ever uses it is because it looks good in a press release. Marketers and ad buyers laugh.

You have to compare apples to apples, and unfortunately in the internet age, there are now apples, pears, nectarines, oranges, clementines, cherries, strawberries, etc.

That's why Facebook and Youtube are so valuable - because the numbers are transparent. It's also why broadcasters are so threatened - not necessarily because the web steals their audience, but in fact it's because web metrics are, little by little, exposing the lies broadcasters have been using to sell their advertising for decades.

#186 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

Not an all in all too revealing an interview IMHO.

Aside from a couple honest statements that we all probably already knew to be true, just not that revealing.

Too bad Clean could not have gotten each on their own. Probably wouldv'e been more interesting.


I would definitely have preferred to have Murray alone, but I was certainly glad to have the opportunity to speak to them.

I always try to set out goals for myself before an interview, especially a long form show like this one. In this case, they were:

1) Get them to explain what ACEA and ACRM are, and how they overlap. I think I accomplished this.
2) Talk about nationality, see where they stand, and get them to take a stand. I know I accomplished this.
3) Introduce the personalities to our readership, since anyone who cares about the AC should know the top players. Yes.
3) Get Richard Worth to feel comfortable with SA as a conglomerate of ideas, and to accept me as a logical and fair reporter. Maybe.
4) Get to know Iain Murray, and to get him more comfortable with SA as AC director, instead of just an SAer (he has been reading SA since the beginning). Maybe.
5) Get another interview planned and accepted. No problem.

Those complaining about softballs are certainly right - I was definitely soft with them, only really forcing them on a couple of things. That was my intent, because if I came out throwing bombs at these guys before we built rapport, they would not answer honestly anyway and I would not be able to bring them back during the 18 months we still have until the Cup.

They were very gracious and trusting to give me an hour despite never having spoke to me before, and I am quite sure that our future conversations will be the most in-depth of any AC conversations that you will be able to find. I look forward to them.

#187 GauchoGreg

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:21 PM


^. Absolutely right. The old boats were hopeless for getting high interest from the sailing community, or any real interest from non-sailors. You have to have some perception of speed and the idea the vehicle you are watching is among the fastest of its type.


Have you actually seen an AC45 sailing in a decent breeze, because I have, and they do not look particularly fast. Compared to (say) an 18-foot skiff, they do not look dramatic. And actually, in the context of everyday experience, they aren't fast. They are moving at the speed of suburban traffic. The idea that the boats of themselves provide a great leap forward in terms of presentation of sailing to the public is just wishful thinking.

I would say that, as the divide in performance between the AC boats and that of Maxis, ORMA, RTW record boats, Open 60s, and Volvo has grown, the interest in the AC among the sailing community has shrunk.


If it was all about the boats then presumably Britain would be fascinated by the VOR. Actually interest pretty much disappeared once there was no identifiably British team. It's got sod all to do with how fast the boats are. It's about national interest, human interest and something happening in your neighbourhood.



Sorry, your eyes tell you something different than my eyes. I see boats moving quickly around a bay, with a backdrop and other boats for perspective. I see rapid acceleration. I see spray. The very fact that there are crashes is more important to tell you that the boats are moving fast enough that it becomes hard to avoid collisions more than it is some kind of titular stimulation. Yeah, an 18' skiff is also more exciting than watching the old AC boats, but there is no way they are going to race those for the AC.

By the way, funny how the sailors are all saying how much more exciting these boats, and this racing format is, than past ACs, as well. The very fact that the sailors are having to work their asses off, and appear to be fully engaged in their duties on the boat the whole time is a hell of a lot more interesting than watching some slug head off on a 5-minute beat where have the boat is doing nothing but acting the part of dead weight.

The boats and the racing is certainly the good part of what the organizers have been doing, most definitely an improvement on the past.

#188 Surf City Racing

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:22 PM

The Bald Ego, the Bad Egg and the Good Guy...


So let's say Clean goes in for the kill. He asks a bunch of hard hitting questions, and grills them on a couple of topics. What do you think the result would be?

1) They would pick up and leave. (Probably not, but maybe.)
2) They would give some political answer, that doesn't matter anyway. (More likely.)

Then what happens?

After the interview's over, they hang up, discuss what an asshole Clean was, and say, "We'll never do that again." And we have 18 months of "no" every time someone associated with SA asks for an interview or access. What good would that be?

The interview may have been a bit soft for SA standards, but it was harder than ANY other interview thus far, bar none.

#189 GauchoGreg

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:25 PM

I do wish they had been asked what specifically they would be doing to get the attention of the public to get to the actual events and to go to the YouTube coverage. Specifics of TV, Radio, Print ads, or whatever.

#190 GauchoGreg

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:26 PM

I don't know if they are doing right or wrong.
What I do know is that nobody has ever traveled this path.
Terra incognita.
No one has ever tried to do what Ellison and his team want to do.
And Ellison does not need that to defend the Cup.
The tone of the comments in this discussion reminds me of the wise comments of the courtiers while the discoverers were risking their lives by conquering new lands.
Bullshit nonsense.


^Absolutely. Excellent post.

#191 GauchoGreg

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:30 PM


No one has ever tried to do what Ellison and his team want to do.


Oh for fuck's sake, they are running a boat race and televising it. That's all. It isn't a manned mission to Mars. Fundamentally they aren't doing anything that ESS or VOR or others don't already do.



When has a team put hundreds of millions of dollars into fundamentally changing the boats, fundamentally changing the racing, and entirely then doing their own coverage production of the event to this kind of degree? I can't remember that being done, in sailing or any other sport. Seems every attempt before involved modest changes in boats, very little change in the type of racing, and basically grovelling for anyone who might consider it to make the most basic effort at covering the event. Correct me where I'm wrong, where someone has done anything remotely similar to what Ellison/the organizers are now doing.

#192 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:33 PM

I do wish they had been asked what specifically they would be doing to get the attention of the public to get to the actual events and to go to the YouTube coverage. Specifics of TV, Radio, Print ads, or whatever.


We'll get that before the next one. I'll probably ask for it and they'll send me over a list, which would be cool, because we never really get to know just how far pre-event promotion goes.

#193 GauchoGreg

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:41 PM


The Bald Ego, the Bad Egg and the Good Guy...


So let's say Clean goes in for the kill. He asks a bunch of hard hitting questions, and grills them on a couple of topics. What do you think the result would be?

1) They would pick up and leave. (Probably not, but maybe.)
2) They would give some political answer, that doesn't matter anyway. (More likely.)

Then what happens?

After the interview's over, they hang up, discuss what an asshole Clean was, and say, "We'll never do that again." And we have 18 months of "no" every time someone associated with SA asks for an interview or access. What good would that be?

The interview may have been a bit soft for SA standards, but it was harder than ANY other interview thus far, bar none.


^This, +100

These bad-ass guys that think there is not place in the world for civility and respect crack me up. I like Clean's goals for the interview, they seem very much to OUR advantage. Like you said, had Clean thrown bombs at them, they would not have given any real answers, PLUS, we would have never had the chance to have this kind of interview, and more prodding questions at a later date. If these guys are going to give Clean the respect of an interview, I think it is reasonable for Clean to perform a more blunt interview than others are doing (and these guys are expecting such), but not to be an asshole, nor to expect these guys to be thrilled with an interview that makes them look like idiots or their business to be a joke.


I do wish they had been asked what specifically they would be doing to get the attention of the public to get to the actual events and to go to the YouTube coverage. Specifics of TV, Radio, Print ads, or whatever.


We'll get that before the next one. I'll probably ask for it and they'll send me over a list, which would be cool, because we never really get to know just how far pre-event promotion goes.


That would be awesome.

Thanks for the great innerview.

#194 ro!

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 05:48 PM


The Bald Ego, the Bad Egg and the Good Guy...


So let's say Clean goes in for the kill. He asks a bunch of hard hitting questions, and grills them on a couple of topics. What do you think the result would be?

1) They would pick up and leave. (Probably not, but maybe.)
2) They would give some political answer, that doesn't matter anyway. (More likely.)

Then what happens?

After the interview's over, they hang up, discuss what an asshole Clean was, and say, "We'll never do that again." And we have 18 months of "no" every time someone associated with SA asks for an interview or access. What good would that be?

The interview may have been a bit soft for SA standards, but it was harder than ANY other interview thus far, bar none.



At a website that has 'Where the Status Quo Blows' for a header...I wouldn't have thought that a one hour pre interview was nessacary before he asked some real questions or that even with the soft ball questions worth would be allowed to get away with bullshit answers..

#195 Surf City Racing

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:22 PM



The Bald Ego, the Bad Egg and the Good Guy...


So let's say Clean goes in for the kill. He asks a bunch of hard hitting questions, and grills them on a couple of topics. What do you think the result would be?

1) They would pick up and leave. (Probably not, but maybe.)
2) They would give some political answer, that doesn't matter anyway. (More likely.)

Then what happens?

After the interview's over, they hang up, discuss what an asshole Clean was, and say, "We'll never do that again." And we have 18 months of "no" every time someone associated with SA asks for an interview or access. What good would that be?

The interview may have been a bit soft for SA standards, but it was harder than ANY other interview thus far, bar none.


This is just so wrong.


Asking the tough questions serve ACRM/EA as well. There are plenty of stories in the SF papers/media and comments on this site that are negative to the AC and paint things in a negative light. "Hard hitting questions" give the AC team a chance to address these stories/perceptions and put their story out there. Interviews that and don't address the negative comments being made in the press and on this website are a missed opportunity for both.

I don't have a problem w/Cleans interview but "tough" questions are not a bad thing.


Good then. Go watch a couple of America's Cup Uncovered episodes. That's all you get from now on.

#196 Surf City Racing

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:32 PM

At a website that has 'Where the Status Quo Blows' for a header...



A website boasting that should be even more cognizant if they want interviews in the future. Otherwise you just end up with tabloid type spin in the other direction, rather than getting to the nuts and bolts of a topic.

#197 acintel

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:47 PM

I think Clean is right, however in the recent past he was not so "tactical" with AC Organisers. He was treating them with all the bad words of the world and was giving them no option to express themselves. hence the surprise to see Clean new attitude. But good on him.

#198 GauchoGreg

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:49 PM




The Bald Ego, the Bad Egg and the Good Guy...


So let's say Clean goes in for the kill. He asks a bunch of hard hitting questions, and grills them on a couple of topics. What do you think the result would be?

1) They would pick up and leave. (Probably not, but maybe.)
2) They would give some political answer, that doesn't matter anyway. (More likely.)

Then what happens?

After the interview's over, they hang up, discuss what an asshole Clean was, and say, "We'll never do that again." And we have 18 months of "no" every time someone associated with SA asks for an interview or access. What good would that be?

The interview may have been a bit soft for SA standards, but it was harder than ANY other interview thus far, bar none.


This is just so wrong.


Asking the tough questions serve ACRM/EA as well. There are plenty of stories in the SF papers/media and comments on this site that are negative to the AC and paint things in a negative light. "Hard hitting questions" give the AC team a chance to address these stories/perceptions and put their story out there. Interviews that and don't address the negative comments being made in the press and on this website are a missed opportunity for both.

I don't have a problem w/Cleans interview but "tough" questions are not a bad thing.


Good then. Go watch a couple of America's Cup Uncovered episodes. That's all you get from now on.


Absolutely, and I call bullshit on the idea that Clean threw all softballs. Fact of the matter, is some of these guys would not be happy with serious questions unless the pointed slams that many of them disguised as questions were also thrown in. Clean asked good questions and left the interview with the ability to delve further in future interviews. If these guys are so concerned with going beyond what would be reasonable in a first interview, then all they will get is the "status quo". I'd say Clean knows that these guys expect a more blunt interview from Clean/Sailing Anarchy than others, and are open to that, but if the door is to be left open to longer-term blunt interviews, he has to be an interviewer, as blunt and investigatory as he may be, but not an adversary.

#199 PeterHuston

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 06:55 PM

I took the time to watch/listen to the interview last night,while I was also doing other routine stuff, wasn’t exactly glued to the screen payingattention to every word, so I don’t have direct quotes to work from. I didn’t get all that much from Worth, he saidwhat would be expected. Can’t blame him,he’s just trying to keep his job.



The comment that had me wondering what he’s been thinkingthis whole time was the part when he said something like “if you can’t get thesport to support you, then this won’t work”. And that was basically my whole point on the home page piece last week,that ACEA has either (in the best case) ignored input from sailors in the US,or at worst insulted us in a variety of different, if often, subtle ways. I have no idea what they have done to engagethe sailing community in other countries, I’m just looking at things from the US perspective.



A bit of history, and yes S’ray I am going to use the “I”word here, because, well, I was directly involved. More than a year ago I met with Thompson oneon one a couple of times. He had no clueabout how to reach the clubs in the US. I explained to him how US Sailing could be of benefit. He really didn’t know how to approach them, Itold him to just pick up the phone and call the President, Jobson. I talk with Jobson pretty routinely about awide variety of issues that relate to US Sailing. Eventually Gary was out in San Fran for a meeting, andwas promised some sort of document from ACEA about what US Sailing could do tohelp. It basically never came. This went on for months, and as recently asthe late fall (probably before the big layoffs at ACEA, but I’m not exactlysure of the date) I know the US Sailing staff was working on a proposal forACEA. I haven’t spoken to Gary about this recently, so not sure where it went, but,it had been my advice that the relationship between AC 34 and clubs/classes inthe USis probably best served if it comes from GGYC, not ACEA. It is hard enough for a club to the attentionof its own members and then to extrapolate that relationship between US Sailingand a commercial marketing company….eyes will glaze over very quickly. So, the most natural connection between AC 34and the Cup is via club to club. USSailing can play a role to help in either instance.



US Sailing is by no means the be-all end-all for connectingthe Cup to sailors, it is just one tool. There is also a bit of a disconnect between what happens in San Fran andwhat happens around the rest of the country in terms of who is paying attention. Of course the non-sailing locals in San Franare going to react when they see someone wearing AC garb. The AC is big, front page news in SanFran. It isn’t even a blip on the radarin most other places. Of all my sailingfriends around the country, almost no one I know watches the AC Uncoveredshows, I don’t either. If you walk intoalmost any club in the country, the overwhelming majority of members don’t havea clue about the specifics of AC 34. Ehman’s Cupdates at various clubs are aboutthe only way that the message is really getting out to members of clubs.



Guys like Jeremy have offered ideas about how to connectmultihull classes with AC 34. That sort of thing, plus some ongoing initiativewith US Sailing, constant contact with clubs and classes in other ways….there’sa wide variety of ideas that have been tossed around in a variety of placeswhere ACEA could make connections with the sport in the US. And probably the same sort of initiativewould replicate, generally speaking, in most countries.



But ACEA, led by Worth, seems content to listen only tothemselves internally. If Worth wassmart, he’d get as many negative response indicators as he could into a room,and listen to what they have to say. Hisbest move would be to hire Estar today, and then get out of the way.



I’d always rather play the ball than the man, but in thecase of Worth and ACEA, enough is enough. I complained on the front page of SA because the time had come to call aspade a spade. I complain because Icare, and being a cheerleader for just the things that look like they work, ormight work, isn’t going to really help. Besides, other than making him feel good, what’s Worth really learn fromhaving a few cheerleaders close by?



My biggest concern is that with all the massive resourcesavailable to get this right, ACEA ends up getting it way wrong, and the sport,especially in the US,suffers a huge black eye. As it is Iainhesitantly committed to a max of 6 boats in the LVC. Yes, the racing between the current threeteams will be very good, but, how much of a show is that?



The metrics by which success will be judged will varywidely, based on the skin that a party has in the game. The metrics by which the City of San Fran will judge thesuccess of their investment will be different than the metrics by which a teamsponsor judges success, and Larry’s view will be different still. Striking the necessary balance to satisfy allthose needs is a serious challenge, but not engaging the sailing audience inthe US with essentially anything more than You Tube videos, using a Britishvoice over talent, talking about things pretty foreign (including the majorityof the American team) is a pretty self-limiting and limited way to build a bigbase of opinion leaders in the US who are fully engaged in the game and thenpromoting it to their non-sailing friends.



#200 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 07:03 PM

Thanks Jeremy. The real goal is not just to set up further interviews, but to build the kind of relationship with these guys where they can call me when they see something on the front page or when they find a rumor in the forums or Facebook or whatever, to give me the real story, or their response.

An open relationship with the larger sailing community - and SA is certainly the largest place to reach that community by far - benefits everyone. I think this interview helped open that relationship up and I look forward to having a fairly direct line to them.

FYI, Murray has a weekly call-in with the sailing media that I occasionally check in on. You think I throw softballs? Ha. And that's not even recorded.




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