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#101 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:22 AM

1) Who recruited Worth, TE, RC, both of them ? Who chose Stephen Barclay ? The question is not so much about Worth than who is now influencing behind.

2) Barclay "happy face" does not look like ideal to find sponsors, he is mainly a (poor) negotiator, is that what Larry now wants to negotiate the venues ?

But maybe they want to split the tasks and have IM for sailing, SB for negotiation and RW for sponsors ?

#102 K38BOB

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:24 AM


I'm guessing he's 'worth less' now without the CEO role but he is still playing a big role. I'm glad, do like his cerebral intellect and he does seem to be quite smitten by the AC 'product' being produced.

Never struck me as the detail-oriented bean-counter that Barclay likely is..


Pretty difficult to go from being Chairman of an organization to regional sales guy. If they weren't buying what you were selling when you were the #1 guy in the organization, why would a prospect see you as more credible in a reduced role?


More focused- better availability- more bandwidth available to serve customers?

#103 Mariner

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:36 AM


I'm guessing he's 'worth less' now without the CEO role but he is still playing a big role. I'm glad, do like his cerebral intellect and he does seem to be quite smitten by the AC 'product' being produced.

Never struck me as the detail-oriented bean-counter that Barclay likely is..


Pretty difficult to go from being Chairman of an organization to regional sales guy. If they weren't buying what you were selling when you were the #1 guy in the organization, why would a prospect see you as more credible in a reduced role?



But I gotta think, this guys got the life! would anyone rather be in dreary England or San Francisco based globe trotter working with one of the most powerful people there is? He'll muddle through and tough it out.

#104 PeterHuston

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:25 AM

Stuart Alexander's take on things.

http://www.independe...ll-7579511.html

#105 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:54 AM

" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison’s fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?




#106 dogwatch

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:00 AM

Meanwhile, what lots have asked for has finally happened. Murray is running the whole show.


Not sure how you work that out. Sounds more like Barclay is, interim anyway.

#107 PeterHuston

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:25 AM

" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?




You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.

#108 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:31 AM


" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?


You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.

The "ANY YACHT" pretzel logic at play.

#109 jhc

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:34 AM


" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?




You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.

Seems like a blow to the entire team, and last I knew TE was still aboard. Or, are you insinuating there is a rift? Factions? Rivals? That worth's departure is good for TE?

#110 Tornado-Cat

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:37 AM


" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?




You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.


In business and when somebody is either fired or promoted in a big company, they first thing to know is who hired him. Most VPs have their "protégé" , and their fate is a good indication of the influence of their protector.
I assumed (maybe wrongly ?) that TE had chosen RW.

#111 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:45 AM



" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?




You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.


I assumed...


I see the problem.

#112 PeterHuston

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:48 AM



" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?




You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.


In business and when somebody is either fired or promoted in a big company, they first thing to know is who hired him. Most VPs have their "protégé" , and their fate is a good indication of the influence of their protector.
I assumed (maybe wrongly ?) that TE had chosen RW.


You are also the same guy who is assuming ANY yacht can be the defender.

#113 KiwiJoker

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:58 AM




" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?


You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.


I assumed...


I see the problem.

I'm sure Peter Huston has a much better take on this than I but seems to me that TE stepped out of the direct line of fire some time ago. Dunno what his portfolio is exactly but it appears to be Ambassador at Large to the World of Yacht Clubs. That, plus his impending role as Commodore of GGYC appears enough to keep him occupied.

I'd have to guess that TE was pleased to see Worth and Lovejoy sidelined. May have even helped grease the skids.



#114 SW Sailor

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:38 AM





" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?


You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.


I assumed...


I see the problem.

I'm sure Peter Huston has a much better take on this than I but seems to me that TE stepped out of the direct line of fire some time ago. Dunno what his portfolio is exactly but it appears to be Ambassador at Large to the World of Yacht Clubs. That, plus his impending role as Commodore of GGYC appears enough to keep him occupied.

I'd have to guess that TE was pleased to see Worth and Lovejoy sidelined. May have even helped grease the skids.

Agreed, and being involved in the cup for a few decades I'd say he's mastered that move.

Don't know that he's ready to step into the Commodores role though, and I don't know his take on the changes - I'd say he's removed enough to simply watch.



#115 acintel

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:02 AM

Well, Worth is finally gone!

Nice press releases to save the face, but the reality is he got kicked out. Same for Lovejoy.

Barclay is not a bean counter. He probably is the most decent guy in the whole organisation.

Problem, now the CEO of the AC Authority is also the COO of Oracle Racing. Independence anyone?

#116 dogwatch

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:42 AM

More focused- better availability- more bandwidth available to serve customers?


Oh FFS. He's not the customer services manager in a Walmart store. He previously put together global media deals for Premiership soccer collectively worth upwards of US$1B. This is a demotion and if he had any self-respect he'd walk.

#117 PeterHuston

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:27 PM



" What is certain is that more heads will roll, despite recently announced television deals with NBC and Sky Sports...Ellison's fearsome reputation for demanding promised performance from his executives may see more radical changes in management style over the next few weeks."

IMO, the fall of RW is a defeat for TE, but is RC winning out of that ?




You want to explain how Worth being ousted is a defeat for TE? I don't understand that one.

Seems like a blow to the entire team, and last I knew TE was still aboard. Or, are you insinuating there is a rift? Factions? Rivals? That worth's departure is good for TE?


Not insinuating anything, just asked TC to explain his logic. And how is Worth getting axed a blow for the entire team? He promised the world, and did not deliver. Alot of people got pink slips just before Christmas because Worth failed to deliver the revenue he said he would, bet if you asked them they wouldn't think Worth's departure was a blow to the team.

Besides, this isn't just about the ACEA, or Oracle Racing team. In the larger context, this is about the sport. Worth designed a faulty revenue model, and the failure of ACEA to attract sponsors can't be helping the image of the sport. Why Worth has any position at all with ACEA is a mystery to me.

#118 Albatros

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:30 PM

Besides, this isn't just about the ACEA, or Oracle Racing team. In the larger context, this is about the sport. Worth designed a faulty revenue model, and the failure of ACEA to attract sponsors can't be helping the image of the sport. Why Worth has any position at all with ACEA is a mystery to me.

chicken and egg, which one was first ?

was it Worth coming up with the overly megalomaniac idea, or was it Wussel and/or bad Larry before Worth was contracted ? you got to consider at least that Larry and Wussel were there before Worth. (not trying to defend that sucker, but seems to me you are reversing the score)

#119 Dixie

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:54 PM

If he is now hired to run the World Series, and the WS is concluding soon it's "inaugural year," what is the plan for the WS now that it is in 45s instead of 72s for it's next year? Are they planning on going beyond the October event in SF? At what point can the teams focus on racing the 72s? What time availability is left for more World Series events? With the 72s hitting the water in July, even with limited numbers of sailing days...I don't know....I'd rather see the 72s on tour and the teams training in the boats they'll be racing in. But that's just me, pre-coffee.

#120 PeterHuston

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:02 PM


Besides, this isn't just about the ACEA, or Oracle Racing team. In the larger context, this is about the sport. Worth designed a faulty revenue model, and the failure of ACEA to attract sponsors can't be helping the image of the sport. Why Worth has any position at all with ACEA is a mystery to me.

chicken and egg, which one was first ?

was it Worth coming up with the overly megalomaniac idea, or was it Wussel and/or bad Larry before Worth was contracted ? you got to consider at least that Larry and Wussel were there before Worth. (not trying to defend that sucker, but seems to me you are reversing the score)


I'm not sure what megalomaniac idea you are talking about, but in general, there seems to be not much wrong with the concept of the ACWS as a touring circuit (though I never liked the name at all, but a somewhat minor point in the scheme of things). Plenty of other touring circuits, not the least of which is the ESS. The 45's with wings are more expensive for sure than the 40's, but not by a massive amount.

I don't pretend to know what the development cost of Liveline was, and where, if any, there was an unnecessary expansion of the budget. For sure Liveline does make TV, and maybe more importantly race management better, but a specific question that none of us know is where the budget creep was that blew the TV budget to massive proportions.

But one thing is for sure, Worth and Thompson came into ACEA boasting of the TV and sponsorship sales experience, so for Worth to come out a few months ago and say the sponsorship market was bloody tough, well hello, he didn't know that before he starting pitching his revenue projections to Russell and Larry?

Then one needs to assess exactly why the sponsor market place was tough for Worth. Sure, the global economy is an issue, but that has been known for some time. What really failed was Worth's Flintstonian TV and sponsorship packaging model, where ACEA was going to control the world. I know for a fact that global sized companies in Canada really liked the idea of sponsoring a team in the America's Cup, but at Red Maple we couldn't and wouldn't guarantee any sort of media value because that was out of the teams control as it pertains to the event. If ACEA had considered some sort of team revenue share TV deal on a country by country basis, and had come up with an ACWS schedule that was defined, it is more than likely there would be a couple of more teams in the Cup than we have now.

There is still time, precious little, but there is still time to help a couple of teams get to the starting line, specifically France and perhaps China and Korea.

Barkley's job right now is to find a way to make a tv deal in France, China and Korea that will help those teams get to the starting line in a 72, and to a lesser degree help the ACWS.

On the topic of ACWS, if push comes to shove and the best they can do is run the series in the locations they have already announced, and put more regattas in just San Francisco, I'd argue that would be a good move. In a perfect world, best to keep the wet circus traveling around the globe, but if having it all meant just sailing 5 more events in San Fran, that is better than not doing it, and provides the added benefits of making San Francisco and the America's Cup more top of the mind for the world, and gives alot more logistical practice for the race management and tv production crews.

#121 dogwatch

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:19 PM

The 45's with wings are more expensive for sure than the 40's, but not by a massive amount.


If figures that have been suggested are to be believed (and who can be sure?) then participation in ACWS comes in at several times the budget of participation in ESS. Cost of the boats is only one factor in the equation.

#122 ~Stingray~

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:25 PM

^ Once you have an AC45 then costs to participate should be similar, unless you pay higher prices for personnel in one or the other.

The real ACWS cost is being borne by ACA. Someone in the Seattle presentation answered that during the first 3 events they spent an ~average~ of $8M per..

#123 dogwatch

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:34 PM

^

Serious ACWS teams will have more personnel and higher paid personnel than ESS. If nothing else, winged cats take more care and feeding than the more basic ESS boats.

#124 Albatros

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

I'm not sure what megalomaniac idea you are talking about, but in general,...

it's megalomaniac on several levels, but thanks for the answer, I'm not that different in thinking, I'm only more inclined to think that the overall vision on the whole package; set up of the next AC, wheelin' & dealin' with SF to get hold of the land, trying to make it into a new F1 circus and the whole marketing/revenue model that might go along with it, was already broadly defined when they hired Worth, he was probably brought in to make part of Larry's and/or Wussel's dreams come true and execute the thing. Being a corporate rat myself I can imagine Worth shooting himself in the foot by seeing an opportunity, talking himself into it by even exaggerating the dreams of the guys that hired him and that at a moment when it was already visible for just about anyone that this kind of dreams were feasible 10 year ago, but not now.

#125 K38BOB

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:39 PM

If he is now hired to run the World Series, and the WS is concluding soon it's "inaugural year," what is the plan for the WS now that it is in 45s instead of 72s for it's next year? Are they planning on going beyond the October event in SF? At what point can the teams focus on racing the 72s? What time availability is left for more World Series events? With the 72s hitting the water in July, even with limited numbers of sailing days...I don't know....I'd rather see the 72s on tour and the teams training in the boats they'll be racing in. But that's just me, pre-coffee.


I get the sense that they will run in parallel. AC45s for those teams that didn't get the money together for a 72 this time, to get sponsorship money

#126 PeterHuston

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Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:43 PM


The 45's with wings are more expensive for sure than the 40's, but not by a massive amount.


If figures that have been suggested are to be believed (and who can be sure?) then participation in ACWS comes in at several times the budget of participation in ESS. Cost of the boats is only one factor in the equation.


Agreed. I have no idea of the exact comparative costs, but in general, as compared to the operating costs of a 72, the 45's are dramatically less.

Another factor is the variable cost of the labor to drive the billboard around the race track. A relatively young and fresh 49'er sailor is going to cost alot less than an Ainslie, Spithill or T. Hutch.

My point is that one way to better reduce and control the ACWS costs would be to basically plant the whole show in San Fran starting with the events this fall.

#127 Estar

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 04:12 PM

Next step for ACEA = hire CEO with the necessary marketing skills and experience. There are three paths they could follow:

1. If they (LE and RC) still want to try to pursue the 'mass market' and open the sport up to whole new audiences, then they need a marketing program like blockbuster movies or video games use when launching. That s +$100m of spending - very high risk but given the time frame now the only way left to do it (They have missed the time/window of opportunity to do something more clever and inexpensive). I somehow doubt LE has the stomach at this point for that sort of spending/risk, but if they go this way they should hire someone with successful experience launching big video games. This would be fun to see.

2. Go after the 'natural' audiences = sailors, SF locals, and national spirit in the team countries. A year ago we all sketched out that this could potentially deliver a 10m sort of audience size. That's certainly not the original aspiration, but they could do something profitable with it, and build on it the for 'the next time'. You need someone with some modern narrow niche marketing success for this, and I agree with the comment above, hopefully with a feel for "passion brands". There are some interesting strategic decisions if you go this way, whether you go with someone with an 'extreme sports experience and feel' or a 'high class and teamwork' feel - they tend to be quite different types of people.

3. Leave the marketing to NBC and the City of SF, and just reduce ACEA's costs to the minimum necessary to support NBC and SF. SB might well be the right guy to do this. Per PH's comment, this would also probably imply planting in SF unless RW manages to get any new cities to pay big big fees. I have the feeling given the recent announcement that this is the way they are going, but I hope not.

As an aside - the AC72 wings are massively expensive. The rigid skins require lots of decent size pre-preg temp molds, and new ones every time you want to change a surface. And there is still massive R&D going on, and will be probably at least for 2 more cup cycles (if they stay with wings) before the solution box is really defined.




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