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VOR Leg 4


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#1201 bulbouskeel

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:56 AM

The turnout for G4 was pretty light, I'd estimate about 500 total on both sides of the Viaduct.

When the rest of the fleet came in, it still seemed light to me, probably between 2000 and 4000 total. That said, it was a pretty miserable day and remains so today.

The Village is pretty disappointing and was all closed up for G4's arrival - not even a cup of coffee to be had. The displays are lack luster and there's no one to talk to, really.




And yet I read from the VOR website, "It set the stage for a remarkable morning in Auckland, as the so-called City of Sails underlined its reputation as the world's sailing capital, with thousands of fans taking to the sea on spectator boats and thousands more brandishing binoculars and lining the viewing area"

This reads like some Cold War press release. It's a plain old exaggeration. Even the photos of the kids' Opti race are closely cropped -- I'm guessing it was a tiny, tiny race.

I guess I'm just being Eeyore. Even at the finish of one of the most epic legs of ocean racing I can ever remember, in a place where sailing is supposedly central to life, 2-4 thousand people seems like a very meager turnout indeed.

VOR authorities: don't give up, but next time you've got to find a way to get more boats on the line. Six is not compelling enough, even in an outrageously difficult and epic setting. It's just not interesting enough for the man in the street.. Maybe there is a way to rewrite the Open 70 rules so that the boats are less exotic and expensive, so that it is easier to attract more sponsors. I don't know, but for Pete's sake, try something!!!

#1202 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:06 AM

Credit Ian Roman/Volvo Ocean Race.

I dig the I-14 or whatever it is leading the way in like a pilot fish.

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#1203 jc172528

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:07 AM





Puma just crossed. Who says Camper can only go to windward; the boat is continually 1-2 knots faster downhill than Telefonica ... going to be very close if this keeps up.

I have not seen anybody say that. They have a, self admitted, problem with reaching. And seem to have a slight edge upwind. Overall the boat seems competitive, but the crew less so.




Thank you. I have been called an asshole and a total ignoramus for saying that Camper's boat is just fine compared to the others. This leg is proof positive of that. I cannot for one fucking second understand why all you Camper boosters go on and on about being handicapped with a boat that is slower than the others. That is CLEARLY not the case. It is perhaps a tad slower on beam reaches, but it goes upwind like a scalded hound. I just cannot believe the level of vitriol that was unleashed when I a couple of times suggested that Camper's problem is a human one, rather than something to do with their boat. You TNZ fans can really be pathetic. Stop the hating, and tell Nico to teach his boys to sail more sharply.


Slapper you've been choking your chicken so much it's clearly affecting the though process.
Maybe since you're the ocean racer of the decade you should come down here relay all this Dalts and take over from Nico, I reckon Tony Rae would love your input.
Remember the pointy end is the front.
Now since TNZ is ahead of Puma I reckon you should tell Kenny to teach his boys to sail more sharply Posted Image



Dude, let's leave my chicken out it, at least for argument's sake. Yes, I realize that TNZ is ahead of Puma at the moment. Do you remember that in leg 1 Puma had a tiny problem with their mast? ... arguably, it may have affected their result on that leg, and in turn their overall score to date.

I am not the ocean racer of the decade by any stretch, nor have I made any claims to be. Quite the contrary. But neither you, this Dalts chap, nor anyone else can seriously contend that the Camper boat is slow. It is awfully hard to judge via blips on the tracker, but it seems a near certainty that on certain points of sail it cleans house on the JK designs. I mean, in the day or two before reaching Cape Reinga it was the fastest boat on the water by a significant margin, and pointed better to boot. I don't see why Mr. Botin should be excoriated as it appears he has produced a capable design. The next leg should tell the story as it should have the first real downwind sailing of the race -- then this conversation can be pursued in earnest. Just eyeballing the ultra-flat hull, and with its fraculator rig etc., you would think that Camper would go pretty damned well off the wind. I don't know what effect the relatively forward keel or relatively aft boards will be. Guess we'll see.


So by your way of thinking Pumas tiny problem with their mast was due to poor design, thank you, point proven.
Of course the only element to boat speed is the hull, again top logic.



Tell me, does it hurt when you think?

#1204 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:20 AM

Tell me, does it hurt when you think?


does it hurt carrying all those chips on yer shoulders...get over yerself and add to the conversation. Your experience will only enrich the conversation....and undoubtedly create a few laughs. You could let us know exactly how much hair gel you go through in the time it takes to do a leg of the race for instance.

Clean...looks like an 18 with the pink kite.

#1205 haligonian winterr

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:01 AM


I don't see any particular downside to delaying the next leg a bit.


So you think VOR changes their schedule for one week just to wait for one team to put a patch on their boat?
Think about hazzle and costs!
It's up to Groupama to decide if repairs can be done in a safe way. Enough time for testing during inport and first days out in the leg without risking anyones life. There is always the option to meet the fleet 21.April in Itajai.


If they don't make this start, do they have to ship to the next port? Not allowed to take an extra day and start late? Sorry I haven't read the NOR or SI's

HW

#1206 jc172528

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:20 AM

Clean...looks like an 18 with the pink kite.



Fark really! And here's me thinking it was a Soto 40, how insightful are you big fella?

#1207 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:52 AM


Clean...looks like an 18 with the pink kite.



Fark really! And here's me thinking it was a Soto 40, how insightful are you big fella?


trying to help out our intrepid sailing journalist friend here little fella...he thought it was an I 14.

seriously...how much product do you have in your hair as we speak. stay focused. we can do the math for you.

#1208 Moonduster

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:03 AM

Didn't see any other boats out of the water as they were still all arriving. It's really a shame the way the Port of Auckland has ruined the water front facility in the last few years. The result on Sunday was that all the boats other than Puma had to mill around out in the harbor waiting for the their opportunity to do the ceremonial docking and unloading of the race crew on one side of the Viaduct and then load up the shore crew and move the boat to the other side. Because Telefonica and Camper finished at the same time, Camper had to mill around for about an hour, I'd guess, prior to getting on the dock.

With only one crane for the five boats (TNZ has their own crane at their own facility, which is slightly removed from the rest of the shore bases), I doubt that Sanya made it out of the water until the wee hours of the morning.

I'm heading down to the Viaduct for a 7PM presentation ... will take a look around and see what seems to be going on.

#1209 bulbouskeel

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:07 AM

http://www.volvoocea...hore-teams.html


Come on, TNZ and friends: find a fucking shed for the Groupama guys to fix their boat in. Camper, which is undamaged, has a nice cozy building to snuggle up in. No one should have to work all day in the rain on a super-complex boat under a tarpaulin. And the worst way in the universe to beat the Groupons, utterly lacking panache and good sportsmanship, is if the hole in their boat makes an untimely reappearance because they couldn't get the laminates to cure working in the rain, and they're forced to race with 1.5 tons of water up front.

#1210 jc172528

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:15 AM



Clean...looks like an 18 with the pink kite.



Fark really! And here's me thinking it was a Soto 40, how insightful are you big fella?


trying to help out our intrepid sailing journalist friend here little fella...he thought it was an I 14.

seriously...how much product do you have in your hair as we speak. stay focused. we can do the math for you.


An I14 with three up, impressive.
Pretty clear you can't see or can't count, maybe both.
Nice one bro!

#1211 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:25 AM




Clean...looks like an 18 with the pink kite.



Fark really! And here's me thinking it was a Soto 40, how insightful are you big fella?


trying to help out our intrepid sailing journalist friend here little fella...he thought it was an I 14.

seriously...how much product do you have in your hair as we speak. stay focused. we can do the math for you.


An I14 with three up, impressive.
Pretty clear you can't see or can't count, maybe both.
Nice one bro!


I bet you were the smart one in your class, weren't you....now go back...take a breath and read little fella. the irony may escape you so stay focused on the meaning of words. it's not all about you

that or go and help find a shed for Groupama?? it would be the friendly thing to do

btw....with how your brain is working I'm going to go with the excess hair product average common to you lads.

#1212 jc172528

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:34 AM





Clean...looks like an 18 with the pink kite.



Fark really! And here's me thinking it was a Soto 40, how insightful are you big fella?


trying to help out our intrepid sailing journalist friend here little fella...he thought it was an I 14.

seriously...how much product do you have in your hair as we speak. stay focused. we can do the math for you.


An I14 with three up, impressive.
Pretty clear you can't see or can't count, maybe both.
Nice one bro!


I bet you were the smart one in your class, weren't you....now go back...take a breath and read little fella.

that or go and help find a shed for Groupama?? it would be the friendly thing to do

btw....with how your brain is working I'm going to go with the excess hair product average common to you lads.


Yes I agree no shed for the French green sled is quite poor form.
But the chainsaw might be well n truly into Camper for some mods.


btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.



#1213 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:45 AM

btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.

#1214 jc172528

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:54 AM


btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.


Yeah 1+ for the Aussie girl.

I doubt Camper is for the chop but being home I heavily suspect TNZ will be running the ruler over it (any quick fixes), they have everything at their disposal (Cookson, Norths across the road etc).
I think they would start favorites for the next leg, purely because of the SO element..
Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.


#1215 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:02 AM



btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.


Yeah 1+ for the Aussie girl.

I doubt Camper is for the chop but being home I heavily suspect TNZ will be running the ruler over it (any quick fixes), they have everything at their disposal (Cookson, Norths across the road etc).
I think they would start favorites for the next leg, purely because of the SO element..
Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.


and there was you asking people if it hurt when they thought.....this is comedy gold. yer a cheeky little fella it seems.

Dunno about camper being favs for the SO....my money would be on Groupama. Their routing is very solid....their decisions smart and they go like the clappers off the breeze. Wondering whether we don't see the best of Camper once they turn up the South Atlantic at this juncture.

After how good the last leg was...this one will be a ripper.

#1216 clamslapper

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:07 AM



btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.




Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.




Dude. Finally. We are on the same page.

Was that so hard? I.e., to come around and change your outlook 180 degrees?

#1217 DtM

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:13 AM

Keeping up with you two is exhausting B)

#1218 thetruth

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:53 AM

Because as Dalton says "it is what it is". Poor old Evo he actually has never done an offshore race but is good fun in the sense that every village (Perth in this case) has an idiot. As a matter of interest passed by the Volvo Village (is Evo the idiot there?) and is empty. Still struggle to work out how this brought $30.3 mill ion 6 days.........................






btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.




Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.




Dude. Finally. We are on the same page.

Was that so hard? I.e., to come around and change your outlook 180 degrees?



#1219 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:08 AM

Because as Dalton says "it is what it is". Poor old Evo he actually has never done an offshore race but is good fun in the sense that every village (Perth in this case) has an idiot. As a matter of interest passed by the Volvo Village (is Evo the idiot there?) and is empty. Still struggle to work out how this brought $30.3 mill ion 6 days.........................


Hi G....classic stuff mate.ycmtsu...you were jc172528's teacher weren't you. go on..admit it

got to agree with you about those numbers....who cited them?

#1220 thetruth

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:14 AM

Who knows Dalton probably. If there was a cunt of the race so far it would be Dalton. You must be used to wild numbers. Has Longley and Lissiman attracted every child from the age of 9 to go sailing in Perth? Same old bullshit.




Because as Dalton says "it is what it is". Poor old Evo he actually has never done an offshore race but is good fun in the sense that every village (Perth in this case) has an idiot. As a matter of interest passed by the Volvo Village (is Evo the idiot there?) and is empty. Still struggle to work out how this brought $30.3 mill ion 6 days.........................


Hi G....classic stuff mate.ycmtsu...you were jc172528's teacher weren't you. go on..admit it

got to agree with you about those numbers....who cited them?



#1221 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:18 AM

Same old bullshit.


apparently so. funniest thing to watch in a while. great entertainment along with the drama of the race....it's moments like these you know why they invented the internet. :)

#1222 thetruth

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:31 AM

The funny thing with Dalton is that there is nothing more important to him than a Knighthood (and Lady Nooky). Trouble is he just went backwards. I deal with "average NZer's" all day and no one associates with ETNZ. Still at the end of the day we are better off than your country. My pick for the next leg...................TELE, GPM, CAM with breakages to come. The turnaround here is not smart, tired boats and sailors so mistakes will happen. Would hate to be a PUMA fan. Biggest budget by a mile and no results. And 2nd in cunt of the race so far? Sanderson. Put his personal bank account ahead of what was right and now says he is competitive........



.


Same old bullshit.


apparently so. funniest thing to watch in a while. great entertainment along with the drama of the race....it's moments like these you know why they invented the internet. :)



#1223 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:01 AM

The turnaround here is not smart, tired boats and sailors so mistakes will/may happen.


agree again.

#1224 thetruth

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 07:06 AM

Agree? On everything you vile little prick? Fuck if I can't bag you is it back to that stupid prick on the East Coast "Jonny Saint"?

#1225 needforspeed

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:02 AM

The Kenny Read interview after the race was interesting, he says quote "We beat Telefonica at their own game and we now have something real to build on" . Given what was arguably the hardest leg and the top 2 positions came from Groupama and Puma it's fair to say these 2 boats have improved overtime and perhaps have learnt from the leaders TF and Camper, more so TF. Top 3 positions were all Juan K boats, no surprise really, sooner or later Puma were due to perform and Groupama have been on a dynamic rate of improvement. Will be interesting now to see what happens for the rest of this race and the coming legs, will the Juan K boats fight it out for top 3 positions or can Camper find another gear and grab their second spot back. Will also be fascinating to see how Telefonica respond and how it all pans out from here. Perhaps the conditions consolidated the fleet in terms of elapsed time, an easier race may not?

#1226 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:23 AM

Evo - did you move to Perth and not tell anyone?

#1227 harzak

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:48 AM


Expedition: could you comment on the changes in G4's weather routing this VOR?


It is quite simple the way I see it. There are very few gambles in ocean racing.

Leg 1. Gpma effectively used a coin to decide to go south after the Med. Unfortunately they chose heads instead of tails when even a little bit of thought showed that it was a very risky option. At the time, I couldn't even conceive of a way it was going to work for them.

Leg 2. Slightly different scenario. A large risk for a 50/50 chance of a gain.

Leg 3. Probably much less stressful for their supporters. You can't really fault the way they moved north when it was the correct thing to do.

Interestingly, Puma has been showing signs of the same syndrome. There was the move east in leg 2 that carried a lot of risk and was hard to see an upside to. They were lucky there are only 4 competitive boats in the race so they only lost a place. The last leg was similar with the move north. So, I suspect Puma might heave learnt from that and be more consistent in the future. Maybe not as much as if they had come 4th though.

Thank you!

Clean: If you get the chance to speak with Cammas/Nelias of G4, it would be interesting if you could get comments on G4's risk profiles on legs 1, 2 and 3; what they've learned so far. Perhaps even ask if it is a correct speculation that the initial high-risk style gradually gives away as the round-the-world-record mind-frame gets modified by VOR experience :)

#1228 Vorwaerts

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:06 AM

Clean: If you get the chance to speak with Cammas/Nelias of G4, it would be interesting if you could get comments on G4's risk profiles on legs 1, 2 and 3; what they've learned so far. Perhaps even ask if it is a correct speculation that the initial high-risk style gradually gives away as the round-the-world-record mind-frame gets modified by VOR experience :)


As Moody Frog said earlier it is to simple to associate G4 strategy with a record mind-frame. They have a lot experience in competitive offshore races on board. For example Cammas and Caudrelier have won the Solitaire de Figaro, Foxall and Israël did also had very good results in this race. I think from a strategy point of view the Solitaire has a lot in common with the Volvo. The fleet there are 30+ 1D boats, and if you think this Volvo finish was close, it is not uncommon to have 10 or more boats finishing in 15 min in the Solitaire. Over the years a lot of people claimend the Solitaire is boring to watch because of all the controling and fleet tactics. But I think quite the opposite is true. The leaders often control each other (having a higher pace the rest of the fleet) but then at the right moment someone is doing a decisive move which descides the race. I think you can recognise this in G4 tactics as well. The flyer along the African cost is an exception.
In leg 2 G4 moved south separating from the fleet, but obviously they had a back door and joined the fleet again without too much loss as they saw that it is not working. Then as they saw the next opportunity they tried again and it worked. I do not have the rooting tools at hand and I do not have the experience of Expedition but I think that this was not so risky as he is stating it was.

#1229 Panoramix

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:34 AM

As Moody Frog said earlier it is to simple to associate G4 strategy with a record mind-frame. They have a lot experience in competitive offshore races on board. For example Cammas and Caudrelier have won the Solitaire de Figaro, Foxall and Israël did also had very good results in this race. I think from a strategy point of view the Solitaire has a lot in common with the Volvo. The fleet there are 30+ 1D boats, and if you think this Volvo finish was close, it is not uncommon to have 10 or more boats finishing in 15 min in the Solitaire. Over the years a lot of people claimend the Solitaire is boring to watch because of all the controling and fleet tactics. But I think quite the opposite is true. The leaders often control each other (having a higher pace the rest of the fleet) but then at the right moment someone is doing a decisive move which descides the race. I think you can recognise this in G4 tactics as well. The flyer along the African cost is an exception.
In leg 2 G4 moved south separating from the fleet, but obviously they had a back door and joined the fleet again without too much loss as they saw that it is not working. Then as they saw the next opportunity they tried again and it worked. I do not have the rooting tools at hand and I do not have the experience of Expedition but I think that this was not so risky as he is stating it was.


Indeed but flyers are not uncommon during the Figaro. It is known as "faire une Troussel" from the name of a guy who is a specialist at winning like this. For leg 1, I think G4 thought that Camper was going South, their intended route was shorter so I am not sure that they were gambling. They have huge respects for the Kiwis and at the start it wasn't clear that Telefonica would be dominating the race.

#1230 clamslapper

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:12 PM

And 2nd in cunt of the race so far? Sanderson. Put his personal bank account ahead of what was right and now says he is competitive........




You guys clearly have a pretty good read on the eddies and undercurrents of things in Auckland ... but what's the scoop on Old Man Sanderson? Know nothing about him except that he's a lot less rattled than I would be that he is in last place. I just chalked that up to being paid a lot. What else is going on?

#1231 smackdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:51 PM

Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.


If that's true, it would certainly argue that a "co-skipper" arrangement is not a good idea.

#1232 mad

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:51 PM



the speeds are decreasing more, hard time and good suspence. Do you confirm that Telefonica's navigator is Kiwi?

great job from G4and teh boys, they will have more time to reprepare the boat and have a rest before next race!

Andrew Cape is Austrailian ;)

My link

sorry i mixed the flags...:blink:

Even they get confused at times....

Posted Image

#1233 Evo

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:08 PM

Evo - did you move to Perth and not tell anyone?


who knows??...perhaps i'm confused (as mad suggests) and that's actually the Indian Ocean out the front door. :unsure:

#1234 mad

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

http://www.volvooceanrace.com/en/news/5450_Praying-for-sun-as-rain-hampers-shore-teams.html


Come on, TNZ and friends: find a fucking shed for the Groupama guys to fix their boat in. Camper, which is undamaged, has a nice cozy building to snuggle up in. No one should have to work all day in the rain on a super-complex boat under a tarpaulin. And the worst way in the universe to beat the Groupons, utterly lacking panache and good sportsmanship, is if the hole in their boat makes an untimely reappearance because they couldn't get the laminates to cure working in the rain, and they're forced to race with 1.5 tons of water up front.

Took me less than 30 seconds on google.

http://www.scaffolding.co.nz/contact
http://www.shrinkmaster.co.nz/

No point bitching about something the shore crew should/could have sorted with one or two phone calls.

#1235 Liquid

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:39 PM



Is that a crack, center line on the inner skin?

#1236 bulbouskeel

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:40 PM


http://www.volvoocea...hore-teams.html


Come on, TNZ and friends: find a fucking shed for the Groupama guys to fix their boat in. Camper, which is undamaged, has a nice cozy building to snuggle up in. No one should have to work all day in the rain on a super-complex boat under a tarpaulin. And the worst way in the universe to beat the Groupons, utterly lacking panache and good sportsmanship, is if the hole in their boat makes an untimely reappearance because they couldn't get the laminates to cure working in the rain, and they're forced to race with 1.5 tons of water up front.

Took me less than 30 seconds on google.

http://www.scaffolding.co.nz/contact
http://www.shrinkmaster.co.nz/

No point bitching about something the shore crew should/could have sorted with one or two phone calls.



Totally fair point! Groupon may be a little less amply funded than some of the teams; no idea.

#1237 TriQ

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:17 PM

A shed cant be too expensive but there are BANKS and banks...

Groupama



#1238 clamslapper

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:42 PM

A shed cant be too expensive but there are BANKS and banks...

Groupama





That's hilarious! Good post.

I may be a bit of a martinet, but the cost of renting a shed for a week would be very very justified if it increases safety on this leg by even .001%. Boatbreaking conditions and very iffy possibilities of quick rescue. Whoa.

That being said, it does sound like they managed to effect the repair -- gotta admire the nonchalant attitude of the repair guy in the Groupama video -- it's like, "yaya we fixed it just fine, all in a day's work ... what else ya got?" And to think that for a stupid J24 to have the most trivial hull tweaks done by the shop takes several weeks if not months ...

#1239 DtM

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:08 PM

Where there is a will there is a way.

Your J24 is just a job, more time means more money. G4 is part of a greater whole picture and these guys are devoted and paid to just get it done.

Note, they had to get scaffold to build the steps up to the cockpit so why not for the bow?

#1240 Te Kooti

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:34 PM

Where there is a will there is a way.

Your J24 is just a job, more time means more money. G4 is part of a greater whole picture and these guys are devoted and paid to just get it done.

Note, they had to get scaffold to build the steps up to the cockpit so why not for the bow?






Last night they were sanding the repair.

Job is pretty well finished.

#1241 jc172528

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:01 PM




btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.




Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.




Dude. Finally. We are on the same page.

Was that so hard? I.e., to come around and change your outlook 180 degrees?


No we're not even in the same library.

The crew to me appear tight and that's generally the way TNZ are in all campaigns. But they just seem to lack the Coutts, Barker, Dickson killer punch attitude.
(NB could apply same argument to Puma)

#1242 smackdaddy

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:05 PM

Puma's containers broken into and tools stolen? Ouch.




Kudos to the other teams for lending a hand.

#1243 jc172528

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:11 PM




btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.


Yeah 1+ for the Aussie girl.

I doubt Camper is for the chop but being home I heavily suspect TNZ will be running the ruler over it (any quick fixes), they have everything at their disposal (Cookson, Norths across the road etc).
I think they would start favorites for the next leg, purely because of the SO element..
Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.


and there was you asking people if it hurt when they thought.....this is comedy gold. yer a cheeky little fella it seems.

Dunno about camper being favs for the SO....my money would be on Groupama. Their routing is very solid....their decisions smart and they go like the clappers off the breeze. Wondering whether we don't see the best of Camper once they turn up the South Atlantic at this juncture.

After how good the last leg was...this one will be a ripper.




It's all mental. Camper get a week at home with family/mates and the boat is in their shed.
But yeap should be a ripper. Haven't looked, but any ice gates this time around?
I reckon Tele will fade out on this leg with the battle between G4 and Camper.
Considering we've seen rig failures and front ends falling off who won't make it?

Evo stay out of Little Creatures, the beer's too expensive and those Perth 'ladies' are high maintenance, trust me on this..

#1244 DtM

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:17 PM

I think they will all make it in Leg 5. I certainly hope so.

Racing as they have now for 4 legs is a lot different to training. They are very used to their boats now in race conditions and even though this is a short stop their maintenance is thorough.

#1245 clamslapper

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:30 PM





btw - us lads don't need copious amount of hair products, Kiwi lads are all hung like runaway rhinos, just ask an Aussie girl.


funny you should mention that. just attended a wedding where a kiwi was marrying an aussie girl. hence the questions about hair product...draw whatever conclusions you like from that.

do you really think they are about to chop up Camper?? i highly doubt it.

The boat is ok and their shore crew very efficient....the maintenance sched will be thorough but doable in damper conditions than are needed for a bow repair before heading south.


Yeah 1+ for the Aussie girl.

I doubt Camper is for the chop but being home I heavily suspect TNZ will be running the ruler over it (any quick fixes), they have everything at their disposal (Cookson, Norths across the road etc).
I think they would start favorites for the next leg, purely because of the SO element..
Speed doesn't seem to be lacking, the killer instinct is. Camper show indecision at times which is concern, Leg 1 the obvious classic. G4 and Tele seem to make a call stick with it.


and there was you asking people if it hurt when they thought.....this is comedy gold. yer a cheeky little fella it seems.

Dunno about camper being favs for the SO....my money would be on Groupama. Their routing is very solid....their decisions smart and they go like the clappers off the breeze. Wondering whether we don't see the best of Camper once they turn up the South Atlantic at this juncture.

After how good the last leg was...this one will be a ripper.




It's all mental. Camper get a week at home with family/mates and the boat is in their shed.
But yeap should be a ripper. Haven't looked, but any ice gates this time around?
I reckon Tele will fade out on this leg with the battle between G4 and Camper.
Considering we've seen rig failures and front ends falling off who won't make it?

Evo stay out of Little Creatures, the beer's too expensive and those Perth 'ladies' are high maintenance, trust me on this..




I can hardly be said to be knowledgeable about naval architecture, but based on what little I do understand I think that Camper is going to scream downwind. Betcha they contest this leg so long as they get a little tougher mentally and commit and believe in themselves. This next leg is the crux of the race; maybe they'll stand and deliver, finally.

Vis-a-vis TNZ, this fellow Dalton reminds me of Jerry Jones, the owner of the Dallas Cowboys. He just cannot step back and let the thing happen; he's always sticking his finger in the pie. Dude, let it go already!

BTW, what's the deal with co-skippers on TNZ? I read something about that but it wasn't clear to me. Who is Nico's co?

W/r/t Puma, the interview with Addis struck me as a little wierd, predicting "much more success" now. The time to give that interview is _after_ the "more success", not before!!!

There are ice gates. Well, waypoints to be left to starboard. At 58 degrees south. Not sure how many of 'em.

#1246 dlangpap

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:40 PM




Camper have consistently lost to Tlf in the last 10 hours or so (and throughout the whole race really)...it all probably started when they chose their boat designer.


More ignorant noob ignorance. For fuck's sake, they are mere miles apart after twenty days of racing and thousands of miles sailing you incredible moron. How is it possible they havee "consistently lost to Telefonica throughout the whole race really", when they are right fucking next to them at the finish?

Do you have two braincells to rub together? Please prove it with a doctor's note.


Two boats can have a close finish after sailing 1000s of miles. This doesn't necessarily tell you that they are evenly matched in speed. Sanya could beat any of these boats but it would be mostly due to different positioning on a huge racecourse. What I am referring to is that, if you put Telefonica and Camper in the same conditions, on the same point of sail, Telefonica is probably faster reaching and beam reaching and Camper can match them pointing.

So, one thing> boat speed. A different thing>having a close finish.

The quick turn to insult gives us a clue to what type of poster you are. Don't bother to continue this, I won't.


Anonymous noob angry now!

Never mind the facts don't support either of your posts very well, never mind what you actually wrote (rather than imagined you wrote in your head) which is very different from what you just came back with*, never mind that was your first post on SA, never mind it is you that was insulting professional race teams and their designer choices, never mind nearly anything really. No wonder you won't bother to continue this, it is unsupportable, ignorant nonsense, which craps all over the hard work the teams have done.

This leg rather proves that at least four of these teams (if not even Abu Dhabi), are as nearly matched as race teams can get, which means they have all done their job well. As have the architects of the VO70 rule and VOR as a whole, at least as far as creating a competitive race field.

*Which is also ignorant nonsense, Camper actually GAINED on Telefonica (in DOWNWIND conditions) over the last ten hours of the race! It's hard to argue with non-factual gibberish.



Maybe one of the participating skippers has more insight. Ian Walker> “Telefónica look like the gun boat but everyone's going to have their weaknesses at different times. We've got to hope.


Regarding last ten hours> look at the time of post, go back to tracker, think, breathe, post. Camper caught Telefonica in the last part of the race because they had more wind mainly. Not talking about that, but before, when boats were closer and you can intelligently guess they were sailing in similar conditions. Going back not only to leg 4 but to times when both boats have been close, Tlf. has shown 0.5-1 kn more. Tlf. has managed a couple of times to come from behind and catch Camper when close to each other (so similar conditions), Camper has not. In any case, these are opinions subject to arguments. That's what we are looking for. Whenever you are ready to argue, please do so.



#1247 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 10:47 PM

Your J24 is just a job, more time means more money. G4 is part of a greater whole picture and these guys are devoted and paid to just get it done.



The guys on that team have fixed A LOT of cracked hulls and beams over the decades, always with a tight deadline. Sans souci.

#1248 clamslapper

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:10 PM


Your J24 is just a job, more time means more money. G4 is part of a greater whole picture and these guys are devoted and paid to just get it done.



The guys on that team have fixed A LOT of cracked hulls and beams over the decades, always with a tight deadline. Sans souci.




It's really impressive. These are, obviously, highly highly complex boats and that hole looked nasty. The guy made it sound about as difficult as falling off a log.

#1249 Vorwaerts

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:13 PM

I guess it is not so easy to just rent a shed the size of a Vo70 and do the repairs there. It is probably faster to deal with the tarp and get the job done than to organise a shed remove the keel transport fix the hull in a shed, transport back and install the keel again.
I do not have any first person source in a volvo shore crew but to me it seems that they are people managing the projects who know what has to be done. I am quite sure that the try to hire additional hands if they see that they can not manage the workload by themselves. Do we have any local boat builders/riggers/sailmakers on the board who can indicate the demand for their skills at the moment in Auckland?

#1250 rule69

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 11:59 PM


Your J24 is just a job, more time means more money. G4 is part of a greater whole picture and these guys are devoted and paid to just get it done.



The guys on that team have fixed A LOT of cracked hulls and beams over the decades, always with a tight deadline. Sans souci.


or even pas de probleme. Anyway, I'm impressed.

#1251 jc172528

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:53 AM


Telefónica delay rigging replacement
12 Mar 2012, 21:38UTC


Telefónica have delayed replacing their standing rigging for the second time until after they arrive in Brazil at the end of Leg 5.





They do know the SO leg is next right?




#1252 DtM

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:00 AM

When did they replace it before (if at all)?

Has everyone else replaced their rigging in Auckland?

Seems like Auckland is kind of the halfway point so a replacement now would make sense (at least to me)

#1253 bruno

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:38 AM

posting without reading: Martínez’s team had planned on swapping the rigging over in Auckland, in a similar move to the last-minute changes they made in Sanya before the start of Leg 4, but shore crew boss Horacio Carabelli said they would now wait until after the gruelling Leg 5 Southern Ocean sprint to Itajaí.

I guess they went aloft, looked carefully for chafe and other damage, didn't see it, decided to save the reliability card for later in the race, which should improve their odds of avoiding failure (winning) as the tempo quickens. Rational choice.

#1254 onimod

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:09 AM

I think the gripe is that it's less than 50m to a fully kitted out ETNZ facility with what looks like more than enough space for more than 1 Vo70.
If you're going to host a stop-over I would think you really need to provide facilities a little more commensurate with your climate.
Also - temporary vinyl wedding reception enclosures look all the more ameteur-ish when someone else is hiding away in a class-A boat building facility.

#1255 onimod

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:13 AM

posting without reading: Martínez's team had planned on swapping the rigging over in Auckland, in a similar move to the last-minute changes they made in Sanya before the start of Leg 4, but shore crew boss Horacio Carabelli said they would now wait until after the gruelling Leg 5 Southern Ocean sprint to Itajaí.

I guess they went aloft, looked carefully for chafe and other damage, didn't see it, decided to save the reliability card for later in the race, which should improve their odds of avoiding failure (winning) as the tempo quickens. Rational choice.


I think it's got a lot to do with the fact that they don't have the time to refit the current rigging if the 'new' rigging fails as it did in Sanya.
They may also not have had enough time to diagnose what went wrong with the riggin refit in Sanya either.
Fingers crossed their rig holds to Brazil.

#1256 bulbouskeel

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 03:15 AM


posting without reading: Martínez's team had planned on swapping the rigging over in Auckland, in a similar move to the last-minute changes they made in Sanya before the start of Leg 4, but shore crew boss Horacio Carabelli said they would now wait until after the gruelling Leg 5 Southern Ocean sprint to Itajaí.

I guess they went aloft, looked carefully for chafe and other damage, didn't see it, decided to save the reliability card for later in the race, which should improve their odds of avoiding failure (winning) as the tempo quickens. Rational choice.


I think it's got a lot to do with the fact that they don't have the time to refit the current rigging if the 'new' rigging fails as it did in Sanya.
They may also not have had enough time to diagnose what went wrong with the riggin refit in Sanya either.
Fingers crossed their rig holds to Brazil.




My first thought was, "the rigging only lasts a couple of MONTHS? ... what kind of tissue-paper yachts are these?" Then I recalled how much these boats have been through in this race. Equivalent to many seasons of normal coastal sailing. The last leg sound horrific, with 23' waves. Man I all the rigs hold to Brazil. Leg 5 is no place to be dismasted, it really isn't.

#1257 onimod

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 03:59 AM

http://www.waterfron...ery/Webcam.aspx
G4 mast stepping in progress

#1258 bulbouskeel

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 04:05 AM

I think the gripe is that it's less than 50m to a fully kitted out ETNZ facility with what looks like more than enough space for more than 1 Vo70.
If you're going to host a stop-over I would think you really need to provide facilities a little more commensurate with your climate.
Also - temporary vinyl wedding reception enclosures look all the more ameteur-ish when someone else is hiding away in a class-A boat building facility.




I think it really looks cheesy that the home team is secreted in their boatworks facility with the doors closed and all the other boats are just out in the open in the rain. I realize that of course the shore crews could have obtained indoor space if they wanted, by seeking it out and paying for it. But Auckland should have bent over backwards to provide a proper workspace for each and every boat, or else treated Camper the same as the others. I mean, really, that is just basic sportsmanship. Bad karma for Camper, and especially that Dalts dude -- the more I read about him, the more he bugs me.

#1259 Danno

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:30 AM

Fuck, stop bitching that the poor widdle Volvo teams are out in the freezing cold while TNZ is in their shed! Get fuckin over it. What other stop over is providing all the team enclosed facilities? Its 24 degrees© outside today, nice and sunny....not like it was in Qingdao in the last race with freezing weather or even Capetown a few months back where most peoples pet dogs got blown off their chains!
There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to! Do you think Frank and the Groupama Team will invite everyone to come and share in their hanger sized shed when the're in Lorient??

#1260 Heriberto

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:39 AM

There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to get all their tools and shit stolen. Welcome to New Zealand, bitches. Dat's how we roll.



Fixed.

#1261 Evo

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:39 AM

Fuck, stop bitching that the poor widdle Volvo teams are out in the freezing cold while TNZ is in their shed! Get fuckin over it. What other stop over is providing all the team enclosed facilities? Its 24 degrees© outside today, nice and sunny....not like it was in Qingdao in the last race with freezing weather or even Capetown a few months back where most peoples pet dogs got blown off their chains!
There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to! Do you think Frank and the Groupama Team will invite everyone to come and share in their hanger sized shed when the're in Lorient??


and never forget the rainbow warrior.

come in spinner...oh wait it's underarm...with gel

#1262 onimod

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:20 AM

Fuck, stop bitching that the poor widdle Volvo teams are out in the freezing cold while TNZ is in their shed! Get fuckin over it. What other stop over is providing all the team enclosed facilities? Its 24 degrees© outside today, nice and sunny....not like it was in Qingdao in the last race with freezing weather or even Capetown a few months back where most peoples pet dogs got blown off their chains!
There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to! Do you think Frank and the Groupama Team will invite everyone to come and share in their hanger sized shed when the're in Lorient??


It's not bitching - it's just pointing out a lack of class from an organisation that supposedly prides itself on exactly that.
Would I expect some other groups to be as classy - perhaps not, but if you're going to set the bar as high as ETNZ then you open yourself up to not meeting it occasionally.
Which boat do you think most people are heading down to the viaduct are keen to see? Sanya...I don't think so.

#1263 Danno

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:29 AM

Still confused about why you expect ETNZ to charitably host the other teams in their facility....din't see Sanya do it in China, Telefonica do it in Alicante and can't see Puma doing it in the states.....
And unfortunately the NZ market for stolen Volvo 70 parts is pretty limited......better market in Brazil!


There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to get all their tools and shit stolen. Welcome to New Zealand, bitches. Dat's how we roll.



Fixed.


:lol:

#1264 jc172528

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:40 AM


Fuck, stop bitching that the poor widdle Volvo teams are out in the freezing cold while TNZ is in their shed! Get fuckin over it. What other stop over is providing all the team enclosed facilities? Its 24 degrees© outside today, nice and sunny....not like it was in Qingdao in the last race with freezing weather or even Capetown a few months back where most peoples pet dogs got blown off their chains!
There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to! Do you think Frank and the Groupama Team will invite everyone to come and share in their hanger sized shed when the're in Lorient??


and never forget the rainbow warrior.

come in spinner...oh wait it's underarm...with gel


Ha there we are, Evo and his fascination with gel yet again.
Now look you've really got to get a 'grip' on this personal lubricant fetish you're developing, seriously man you're hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Next thing you'll be ordering more gimp masks off eBay.

You really need some new material, the underarm thing is well, fucking ancient and crusty.
Although if the Aussies need an AC boat I believe they left one in San Diego, sails included.



Now back on topic

Facilities - You want a shed you stump up with the coin it's a simple equation.
SO stop whining like a bunch of 10 year old girls in training bras - for fucks sake.
TNZ are home and are using the same fucking shed they've always had.


#1265 Indio

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:50 AM


Fuck, stop bitching that the poor widdle Volvo teams are out in the freezing cold while TNZ is in their shed! Get fuckin over it. What other stop over is providing all the team enclosed facilities? Its 24 degrees© outside today, nice and sunny....not like it was in Qingdao in the last race with freezing weather or even Capetown a few months back where most peoples pet dogs got blown off their chains!
There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to! Do you think Frank and the Groupama Team will invite everyone to come and share in their hanger sized shed when the're in Lorient??


It's not bitching - it's just pointing out a lack of class from an organisation that supposedly prides itself on exactly that.
Would I expect some other groups to be as classy - perhaps not, but if you're going to set the bar as high as ETNZ then you open yourself up to not meeting it occasionally.
Which boat do you think most people are heading down to the viaduct are keen to see? Sanya...I don't think so.


Care to explain why you feel ETNZ should provide covered sheds for any of the other 5 VOR teams? Last I checked, it was VOR running the show.

#1266 chris360

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:17 AM



Fuck, stop bitching that the poor widdle Volvo teams are out in the freezing cold while TNZ is in their shed! Get fuckin over it. What other stop over is providing all the team enclosed facilities? Its 24 degrees© outside today, nice and sunny....not like it was in Qingdao in the last race with freezing weather or even Capetown a few months back where most peoples pet dogs got blown off their chains!
There are ample places around the viaduct for teams to put their boats in sheds if they want to! Do you think Frank and the Groupama Team will invite everyone to come and share in their hanger sized shed when the're in Lorient??


It's not bitching - it's just pointing out a lack of class from an organisation that supposedly prides itself on exactly that.
Would I expect some other groups to be as classy - perhaps not, but if you're going to set the bar as high as ETNZ then you open yourself up to not meeting it occasionally.
Which boat do you think most people are heading down to the viaduct are keen to see? Sanya...I don't think so.


Care to explain why you feel ETNZ should provide covered sheds for any of the other 5 VOR teams? Last I checked, it was VOR running the show.


+1

#1267 Panoramix

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:32 AM

Interestingly if Puma hadn't dismasted and had finished 2nd during the first leg the current ranking would be:
1 Telefonica 121
2 Puma 103
3 Groupama 98
4 Camper 93

Althouigh that would be bad for my preferred team, it just puts into perspective the Puma bashing and 3 or even 4 boats at a push would still be in a high enough position to win the race.

#1268 onimod

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:34 AM

Care to explain why you feel ETNZ should provide covered sheds for any of the other 5 VOR teams? Last I checked, it was VOR running the show.


I'm not asking for 5 sheds, but if your world is that black and white you're welcome to it.
I have made the presumption that the host boat had some input with the VOR on the setup of their host port - is that wrong?

#1269 Danno

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:53 AM


Care to explain why you feel ETNZ should provide covered sheds for any of the other 5 VOR teams? Last I checked, it was VOR running the show.


I'm not asking for 5 sheds, but if your world is that black and white you're welcome to it.
I have made the presumption that the host boat had some input with the VOR on the setup of their host port - is that wrong?


Errrr...ETNZ have had a base in the Viaduct for about 15 years now...........

#1270 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:56 AM

I don’t know for sure but I think that any port can ‘bid’ to get a stop over regardless of weather or not they have a boat entered.

The city of Auckland are no doubt saving a few bucks by not having to accommodate Camper (but the government funding for the ETNZ would negate that?)

#1271 Indio

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:17 AM


Care to explain why you feel ETNZ should provide covered sheds for any of the other 5 VOR teams? Last I checked, it was VOR running the show.


I'm not asking for 5 sheds, but if your world is that black and white you're welcome to it.
I have made the presumption that the host boat had some input with the VOR on the setup of their host port - is that wrong?


Not wrong, just fucking stupid to make assumptions upon which you then criticise a team who had nothing to do with the logistical resources to be provided to VOR teams - local or otherwise!

#1272 Carboninit

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:38 AM

Fuck the sheds and all that shit . Back to racing, who do you fancy a battle royal on the next leg, I think Abu if they can get there shit together. The dog in the fleet has to be Camper . Away you go boys and girls.

#1273 onimod

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

Not wrong, just fucking stupid to make assumptions upon which you then criticise a team who had nothing to do with the logistical resources to be provided to VOR teams - local or otherwise!


So you're saying that ETNZ just happen to be located at this port by chance then and the setup is all down to the VOR?
OK

#1274 Carboninit

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:27 AM

Keep ooooooooffffffffffff my land ,my tent is bigger than yoooorrrssss. Pathetic twats.

#1275 onimod

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:32 AM

Looks like Puma is back in the water tonight:
http://www.waterfron...ery/Webcam.aspx

#1276 clamslapper

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:58 AM

Fuck the sheds and all that shit . Back to racing, who do you fancy a battle royal on the next leg, I think Abu if they can get there shit together. The dog in the fleet has to be Camper . Away you go boys and girls.


Actually I would say maybe Camper. ADOR is clueless. If TNZ can get each others' scrotums out of their mouths they just might be able to pull it off. I am sure that whatever is going on in that shed in Auckland is not making their boat any slower. The thing is going to come out ready to do battle, and appropriately so -- this leg is the very heart of this edition of the VOR. Will call for strong leadership for sure, though -- so there's a good chance they will flail again, despite whatever speed has been dialed into the boat.

#1277 samc99us

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:21 PM

So Tele wins the first leg, which had the most downwind sailing to date, under threat by PUMA pre-rig failure, and both are being discounted because Camper has a base in Auckland? Personally I see the race as follows:

1) Puma
2) Tele
3) G4
4) Camper
5) Abu Dhabi
6) Sanya

It could be anyone's race in the top 4, all those boats have shown downwind speed potential. Puma hasn't won a leg yet and are sure to push hard for a win on this one. Sounds like Camper has some interpersonal issues to solve before they leave the dock. Hopefully the Tele rig doesn't come down in the Southern Ocean, but if it ain't broke don't fix it comes to mind here.

#1278 jc172528

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

Interestingly if Puma hadn't dismasted and had finished 2nd during the first leg the current ranking would be:
1 Telefonica 121
2 Puma 103
3 Groupama 98
4 Camper 93

Althouigh that would be bad for my preferred team, it just puts into perspective the Puma bashing and 3 or even 4 boats at a push would still be in a high enough position to win the race.


If, should of, could of..........................

#1279 boomer

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

Race starts @ 30:00


#1280 Ballast Technician

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:33 AM

From the other thread

Posted Image

Someone knows more?
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Or not...