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#1 Icedtea

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:13 PM

Trawling through some old threads I found mention of IMS....seems to be an old rating rule.



I'm too young to remember, so would someone please explain WTF it was/is?

Thanks,
Kevin

#2 I'moutahere

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:26 PM

International Mystery System.

Cannot be explained.

#3 pogen

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:33 PM

International Measurement System.


Wikipedia:

The International Measurement System (IMS) is a system of handicapping sailboats for the purpose of racing that replaced the earlier International Offshore Rule (IOR) system in the early 1990s. It is managed by the Offshore Racing Congress (ORC).[1] In the sailing world it is usually referred to simply as 'IMS'.

IMS was the first yacht racing rule developed around the central idea of a Velocity prediction program (VPP). The VPP was a very highly developed computer program that integrated continuous hullform information in order to predict a given boat's speed. Boat owners much preferred this as they were able to design new yachts to maximise performance under the rule with a degree of certainty they had not enjoyed under the IOC rule. IMS is generally believed to have made and most expensive yachts were able to gain a significant technology advantage which the rule was less able to account for. Smaller yacht owners began to feel unfairly disadvantaged under the rule and between 2003 and 2007 much handicap racing around the world changed to using the newer IRC rule.

However, a club activities, heralding a return to the IMS system in a more modern form.


Long gone in these parts

#4 Grinder

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:37 PM

But lots of IMS designed boats around.

#5 Icedtea

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:42 PM

But lots of IMS designed boats around.


Sounds like a pretty terrible rule, like what boats were designed to it?

#6 hermetic

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:47 PM


But lots of IMS designed boats around.


Sounds like a pretty terrible rule, like what boats were designed to it?


It began as a good concept.

It got wierd / bizzaro / ugly / stupid within a few years.

Only the designers won.

#7 The Shadow

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:49 PM

Started life as MHS or Measurement Handicap System. It was the latest and greatest in the wake of the death of IOR. Originally the RC would enter in an average windspeed, direction, plus course information and results would be based on a given boat's VPP for the conditions sailed. I remember the first Block Island Race Week they used it....results took forever to be posted and there was great debate over the wind info being used. It was not uncommon to go out to race without knowing the results from the prior day! Eventually they dropped the windspeed and direction part of the formula and renamed the tweaked rule IMS.
In theory it was a great rule. Results were wholly dependent on who sailed their boat closest to her predicted potential for a given set of conditions and course configuration. Thus there were no "horses for courses" and no designing to the rule. Unfortunately reality was quite a bit different than the theory.

#8 Life Buoy 15

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 10:53 PM


But lots of IMS designed boats around.


Sounds like a pretty terrible rule, like what boats were designed to it?


Have a look at any IRC results sheet. The last 1/3 of the fleet will be boats designed under the IMS rule.

#9 Icedtea

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Posted 14 February 2012 - 11:24 PM



But lots of IMS designed boats around.


Sounds like a pretty terrible rule, like what boats were designed to it?


Have a look at any IRC results sheet. The last 1/3 of the fleet will be boats designed under the IMS rule.


....and the top third may well be from IOR....cough IRC'd quarter tonners.....




Sorry for dragging that one up again

#10 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:54 AM

Posted Image

#11 sam_crocker

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 06:32 AM

IMS has morphed into ORCi

The original boats weren't bad, but they didn't close a bias toward lower stability (e.g. wooden shoes on the bottom of the keel). As others have said, calculating race results was also sometimes a problem. It did do a pretty good job with racer/cruisers. It also required stability measurements which can create problems if not measured accurately.

#12 Jackovator

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 06:43 AM

I hope it hasn't "morphed" into ORCi - at the end of IMS boats were terrible tip trucks with tumblehome and enclosed transoms. Heinous pigs of things

Attached File  IMS 2004.jpg   27.87K   79 downloads

#13 Sailor90

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:10 AM

IMS has morphed into ORCi

(e.g. wooden shoes on the bottom of the keel)


That's my favorite, wooden boots on the bottom of the keels.

Oh and Icedtea, old enough to remember? I'm 23 and it's more like old enough to never know for me. Thank goodness for IRC, it maybe a type form rule but it has produced some really fast, sexy boats!

A few of the IMS boat are here on the Great Lakes. Promo (N/M 52), Raven (Tripp 43), Goblin (N/M 50), Talisman (B/C 58), & Defiance (J/V 66).

#14 dogwatch

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:49 AM

I remember the first Block Island Race Week they used it....results took forever to be posted and there was great debate over the wind info being used. It was not uncommon to go out to race without knowing the results from the prior day!


Similarly, an attempt to use IMS for a major regatta in the UK led to the event being named the "Comedy Cup". IMS never recovered from that set-back here.

Every time you hear about that new perfect rule that won't type-form and will handle different performance in different conditions, just remember that's the same snake oil that IMS was selling.

#15 gybe-ho!

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:07 AM


IMS has morphed into ORCi

(e.g. wooden shoes on the bottom of the keel)


That's my favorite, wooden boots on the bottom of the keels.

Oh and Icedtea, old enough to remember? I'm 23 and it's more like old enough to never know for me. Thank goodness for IRC, it maybe a type form rule but it has produced some really fast, sexy boats!

A few of the IMS boat are here on the Great Lakes. Promo (N/M 52), Raven (Tripp 43), Goblin (N/M 50), Talisman (B/C 58), & Defiance (J/V 66).


Promo...or Ptarmigan as she once was:

Posted Image

This is a very early shot of her test sailing. Later lost the shoe on the keel, took the lead out of the bilge and put it into a new short fat keel, longer pole and masthead kites. We should have left her in the Lakes after 2005 Harbor Springs regatta.

Here's another showing her slab sides:

Posted Image

#16 bgytr

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:42 AM

MHS / IMS was good when it started in the late 70s. Cruiser / racer type boats were of similar proportions enough to rate things somewhat fairly, certainly better than PHRF and IOR. As always, where the money flows, designers and engineers will exploit weaknesses by pushing boundaries of the rule, which is what they are paid to do. As computing power grew, designers could use more powerful simulation tools and compare results with respect to the IMS rating and optimize for certain conditions, etc.

Some early MHS purpose built boats were good all-around boats. Collaboration, and Gaucho are examples. But their coming onto the scene marked the beginning of the end for IMS. Prior to then, just about all of the IMS boats were production racer / cruisers. As soon as it became an arms race, the rule went the same way as every other handicap rule up til then has gone. Expensive, freakish boats became the norm for higher levels, and killed it.

#17 mad

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:49 AM

Trawling through some old threads I found mention of IMS....seems to be an old rating rule.



I'm too young to remember, so would someone please explain WTF it was/is?

Thanks,
Kevin

IMS = I'm a MesS

A perfect example of what the rule bred

Posted Image

Edit:
some background information

#18 SailRacer

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:14 PM

It was the best of times, it was the worst of times...


Sail safe!

#19 Donjoman

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 01:55 PM

it was a rule that (a) promoted cruiser racers (emphasis on the racer) (B) was insanely complicated from a measurement/handicap calculation (too many wind pattern simulations...) but allowed for development of the offshore yacht. Compared to IOR, it moved yacht design forward, creating faster, better balanced boats.

#20 Le Renard Subtil

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:08 PM

Like many above have said, it was a vast improvement, at first, over what came before. I was in college when IMS boats first started appearing on the Chesapeake (early 90's), and IMS boats then looked clean lined and functional. Take a Farr39ML, put it next to a one tonner of the same length, and one looks like the box that the other came in. It also performed like the box that the other came in, come to think of it. Our college team (St. Mary's) had IOR boats when I was a freshman, and IMS by the time I was a senior. The difference between a Heritage 37 and a Tripp 38 was absolutely staggering.

But, then, the difference between a Tripp 38 and a Soto 40 is even more pronounced. I saw a Tripp 38 the other day- well cared for, completely tricked out- but it looked........old fashioned. Made me feel old-fashioned.

#21 Tax Man

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:12 PM

It did a reasonable job of rating boats that were built before it was written, but once designers aimed for the optimal corners in the formula it got ugly.

#22 Presuming Ed

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:26 PM

Trying to find pictures of the ?Frers? red boat (?Siemens?) which had the big ski jump ramps at the bow and stern as a way of playing with freeboard measurements. No luck so far...

#23 Across the Pond

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 02:30 PM

Trying to find pictures of the ?Frers? red boat (?Siemens?) which had the big ski jump ramps at the bow and stern as a way of playing with freeboard measurements. No luck so far...


I'm trying to do the same thing with equally little luck!

EDIT: Spoke too soon...

For some reason (i.e. my own incompetence) I can't attach this as a picture. Follow the link and scroll down to 'Ugly Again'

Siemens IMS 600

#24 gybe-ho!

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:15 PM


Trying to find pictures of the ?Frers? red boat (?Siemens?) which had the big ski jump ramps at the bow and stern as a way of playing with freeboard measurements. No luck so far...


I'm trying to do the same thing with equally little luck!

EDIT: Spoke too soon...

For some reason (i.e. my own incompetence) I can't attach this as a picture. Follow the link and scroll down to 'Ugly Again'

Siemens IMS 600


There she is in all her glory... :blink:

Posted Image

#25 Rich Frye

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:22 PM

How cute, a baby Fazizi.




Trying to find pictures of the ?Frers? red boat (?Siemens?) which had the big ski jump ramps at the bow and stern as a way of playing with freeboard measurements. No luck so far...


I'm trying to do the same thing with equally little luck!

EDIT: Spoke too soon...

For some reason (i.e. my own incompetence) I can't attach this as a picture. Follow the link and scroll down to 'Ugly Again'

Siemens IMS 600


There she is in all her glory... :blink:

Posted Image



#26 The Commodore

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:28 PM

That's one of the ugliest boats I've ever seen, and I've been to a Mac26 dealer.

#27 Soley

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

I still think the old CAM is the highlight of IMS stupidity. It is in a pic further up the thread but this is a little better.

Posted Image

The theory on tumblehome was to have the crew inside the boat hiking out further than the rule shows them hiking on deck. Very sad.

At least it had a better paint job than Siemens.

#28 Lee G

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 03:48 PM



IMS has morphed into ORCi

(e.g. wooden shoes on the bottom of the keel)


That's my favorite, wooden boots on the bottom of the keels.

Oh and Icedtea, old enough to remember? I'm 23 and it's more like old enough to never know for me. Thank goodness for IRC, it maybe a type form rule but it has produced some really fast, sexy boats!

A few of the IMS boat are here on the Great Lakes. Promo (N/M 52), Raven (Tripp 43), Goblin (N/M 50), Talisman (B/C 58), & Defiance (J/V 66).


Promo...or Ptarmigan as she once was:

Posted Image

This is a very early shot of her test sailing. Later lost the shoe on the keel, took the lead out of the bilge and put it into a new short fat keel, longer pole and masthead kites. We should have left her in the Lakes after 2005 Harbor Springs regatta.

Here's another showing her slab sides:

Posted Image



And here is her ass:

Posted Image

#29 gybe-ho!

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:14 PM




IMS has morphed into ORCi

(e.g. wooden shoes on the bottom of the keel)


That's my favorite, wooden boots on the bottom of the keels.

Oh and Icedtea, old enough to remember? I'm 23 and it's more like old enough to never know for me. Thank goodness for IRC, it maybe a type form rule but it has produced some really fast, sexy boats!

A few of the IMS boat are here on the Great Lakes. Promo (N/M 52), Raven (Tripp 43), Goblin (N/M 50), Talisman (B/C 58), & Defiance (J/V 66).


Promo...or Ptarmigan as she once was:

Posted Image

This is a very early shot of her test sailing. Later lost the shoe on the keel, took the lead out of the bilge and put it into a new short fat keel, longer pole and masthead kites. We should have left her in the Lakes after 2005 Harbor Springs regatta.

Here's another showing her slab sides:

Posted Image



And here is her ass:

Posted Image


Awww Mannnn, did ya have to, I'd just about got that image out of my head! The guys in the lakes firstly couldn't believe that we'd trucked a boat from RI to do the Mac race, then were convinced that it was a Michigan Alum that owned the boat due to the colour and lettering style on the bow.

#30 Pants

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:17 PM

We went the other way with the new boat

Attached Files



#31 Mr. Squirrel

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:50 PM

There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS

#32 Innocent Bystander

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:55 PM

There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS


Basically, all published rules are like that. They start as an alternative to a rule which has run its course (IOR) and are advertised to fairly rate boats of seamanlike design. Over time, the edges are explored and poor boats that rate slower than they are result.

#33 gybe-ho!

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 07:40 PM

We went the other way with the new boat


And it's awesome. Good luck with the program this year, will be cheering from the cheap seats.

#34 Icedtea

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:45 PM

Jesus christ that Siemens boat was just fucked.......

#35 Swimsailor

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:47 PM

There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS



N/M 49 Idler, Farr 49 Flash Gordon, R/P 66 Exile and Farr 81 Sayonara were my favs.

In '97 or '98 I remember reading an owner saying something to the effect: "This game is divided up into millionares and billionares. I'm no billionare and after this campaign I may not be a millionare anymore either."

It seems to me that IRC, even with its limitations, has produced some great boats with much more longevity. Look at all the TP52's winning in IRC and the 10 or so mini-maxis still racing. IMS boats were one and done. And the later ones were so damn ugly, no one wants them.

I also heard somewhere that the mid 90's IMS boats would make for great IRC conversions. For all you yacht design experts, any truth to that? Some of those boats still had pretty lines.

#36 Lee G

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:54 PM


There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS



N/M 49 Idler, Farr 49 Flash Gordon, R/P 66 Exile and Farr 81 Sayonara were my favs.

In '97 or '98 I remember reading an owner saying something to the effect: "This game is divided up into millionares and billionares. I'm no billionare and after this campaign I may not be a millionare anymore either."

It seems to me that IRC, even with its limitations, has produced some great boats with much more longevity. Look at all the TP52's winning in IRC and the 10 or so mini-maxis still racing. IMS boats were one and done. And the later ones were so damn ugly, no one wants them.

I also heard somewhere that the mid 90's IMS boats would make for great IRC conversions. For all you yacht design experts, any truth to that? Some of those boats still had pretty lines.


Steve Benjamin has been very successful racing the old High Noon (mid 90's blt Tripp 41) under IRC. Farr 40 rig, new keel, non overlapping sailplan and a big ass bowsprit.

#37 Swimsailor

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:55 PM


Trying to find pictures of the ?Frers? red boat (?Siemens?) which had the big ski jump ramps at the bow and stern as a way of playing with freeboard measurements. No luck so far...


I'm trying to do the same thing with equally little luck!

EDIT: Spoke too soon...

For some reason (i.e. my own incompetence) I can't attach this as a picture. Follow the link and scroll down to 'Ugly Again'

Siemens IMS 600



Wow. 2004. That page took me back!

#38 gybe-ho!

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:38 PM


There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS



N/M 49 Idler, Farr 49 Flash Gordon, R/P 66 Exile and Farr 81 Sayonara were my favs.

In '97 or '98 I remember reading an owner saying something to the effect: "This game is divided up into millionares and billionares. I'm no billionare and after this campaign I may not be a millionare anymore either."

It seems to me that IRC, even with its limitations, has produced some great boats with much more longevity. Look at all the TP52's winning in IRC and the 10 or so mini-maxis still racing. IMS boats were one and done. And the later ones were so damn ugly, no one wants them.

I also heard somewhere that the mid 90's IMS boats would make for great IRC conversions. For all you yacht design experts, any truth to that? Some of those boats still had pretty lines.


I remember seeing Idler out on the Lakes in Chicago in 2005...can't remember the name she was under then (Twister?), but she still had the Idler boom cover, turned inside out and the new name sewn on. Exile went on to be Blue Yankee and had a great run on the East Coast of the US racing against the trio of Farr 60's (Carrera, Rima and Highland Fling) and was reborn as Aroura in the last couple of years, still a great looking boat. Had a bunch of fun on the Farr 60's as IMS boats and again once they were IRC'd with new rigging, heavier bulbs, prods with masthead kites.

#39 Icedtea

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:50 PM





IMS has morphed into ORCi

(e.g. wooden shoes on the bottom of the keel)


That's my favorite, wooden boots on the bottom of the keels.

Oh and Icedtea, old enough to remember? I'm 23 and it's more like old enough to never know for me. Thank goodness for IRC, it maybe a type form rule but it has produced some really fast, sexy boats!

A few of the IMS boat are here on the Great Lakes. Promo (N/M 52), Raven (Tripp 43), Goblin (N/M 50), Talisman (B/C 58), & Defiance (J/V 66).

Promo...or Ptarmigan as she once was:

Posted Image

This is a very early shot of her test sailing. Later lost the shoe on the keel, took the lead out of the bilge and put it into a new short fat keel, longer pole and masthead kites. We should have left her in the Lakes after 2005 Harbor Springs regatta.

Here's another showing her slab sides:

Posted Image



And here is her ass:

Posted Image


Awww Mannnn, did ya have to, I'd just about got that image out of my head! The guys in the lakes firstly couldn't believe that we'd trucked a boat from RI to do the Mac race, then were convinced that it was a Michigan Alum that owned the boat due to the colour and lettering style on the bow.


That boat ptarmigan is actually pretty good looking until you see its ass.....

#40 smelly weasel

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:55 PM

That boat ptarmigan is actually pretty good looking until you see its ass.....



just like most girls :lol:

#41 House Salad

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 09:59 PM



There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS



N/M 49 Idler, Farr 49 Flash Gordon, R/P 66 Exile and Farr 81 Sayonara were my favs.

In '97 or '98 I remember reading an owner saying something to the effect: "This game is divided up into millionares and billionares. I'm no billionare and after this campaign I may not be a millionare anymore either."

It seems to me that IRC, even with its limitations, has produced some great boats with much more longevity. Look at all the TP52's winning in IRC and the 10 or so mini-maxis still racing. IMS boats were one and done. And the later ones were so damn ugly, no one wants them.

I also heard somewhere that the mid 90's IMS boats would make for great IRC conversions. For all you yacht design experts, any truth to that? Some of those boats still had pretty lines.


Steve Benjamin has been very successful racing the old High Noon (mid 90's blt Tripp 41) under IRC. Farr 40 rig, new keel, non overlapping sailplan and a big ass bowsprit.


They've got two of them. High Noon (USA 1200) (White) and After Midnight (USA 1201) (Black). Here's High Noon:
Attached File  2011 Fall Series 22 Oct 934 Cropped Resized.jpg   473.58K   47 downloads

#42 Left Hook

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:07 PM

Exile went on to be Blue Yankee and had a great run on the East Coast of the US racing against the trio of Farr 60's (Carrera, Rima and Highland Fling) and was reborn as Aroura in the last couple of years, still a great looking boat.


Still a fun, beautiful boat to sail. Was born before all the kookiness of later IMS (94?), had periodic updates (including a turboing - but you knew that) and still does well under ORR. 2nd in class Bermuda 2010 and 1st in class Marblehead to Halifax 2011.

Edit: Pics

As Exile with Bitchin lime green paint job:

Posted Image


July 2011:

Posted Image




There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS



N/M 49 Idler, Farr 49 Flash Gordon, R/P 66 Exile and Farr 81 Sayonara were my favs.

In '97 or '98 I remember reading an owner saying something to the effect: "This game is divided up into millionares and billionares. I'm no billionare and after this campaign I may not be a millionare anymore either."

It seems to me that IRC, even with its limitations, has produced some great boats with much more longevity. Look at all the TP52's winning in IRC and the 10 or so mini-maxis still racing. IMS boats were one and done. And the later ones were so damn ugly, no one wants them.

I also heard somewhere that the mid 90's IMS boats would make for great IRC conversions. For all you yacht design experts, any truth to that? Some of those boats still had pretty lines.


Steve Benjamin has been very successful racing the old High Noon (mid 90's blt Tripp 41) under IRC. Farr 40 rig, new keel, non overlapping sailplan and a big ass bowsprit.


They've got two of them. High Noon (USA 1200) (White) and After Midnight (USA 1201) (Black). Here's High Noon:
Attached File  2011 Fall Series 22 Oct 934 Cropped Resized.jpg   473.58K   47 downloads


FYI G. After Midnight sold to Jersey in late August.

#43 gybe-ho!

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 10:09 PM

That boat ptarmigan is actually pretty good looking until you see its ass.....
[/quote]

The ugly ass end was exactly that, but had two lockers for the liferafts so they were out of the way and protected, awesome place for TK to stand so he could see over everyone's heads! The enclosed cockpit did cause a bit of a problem when the boys filled it up during the Mobay race, winter refit included new much larger cockpit drains, that's when the liferaft lockers went in too and all the IRC mods were made.

#44 Swimsailor

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:28 PM

Love those Sharon Green shots of Exile. I do believe those were from one of the last editions of the Kenwood Cup. The demise of Kenwood was one of the casualties of IMS getting so out of hand.

Here's a pic I found of Exile (Aurora) and Blue Yankee. Really cool to see 12 years of design evolution and IMS vs. IRC from the same design office.

Posted Image

#45 Grinder

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:42 PM

Here is N/M50 IDLER/Promo/Goblin, 2007. Sorry not a great pic.

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#46 Left Hook

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 11:59 PM

Love those Sharon Green shots of Exile. I do believe those were from one of the last editions of the Kenwood Cup. The demise of Kenwood was one of the casualties of IMS getting so out of hand.

Here's a pic I found of Exile (Aurora) and Blue Yankee. Really cool to see 12 years of design evolution and IMS vs. IRC from the same design office.

Posted Image


Posted Image

#47 branch

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:47 AM

Another picture of N/M 50 Idler/Promo/Goblin:

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#48 branch

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 01:49 AM

Another picture of N/M 50 Idler/Promo/Goblin:

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#49 Spar Wars

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:05 AM

IMS morfed to ORR..correct?

I've found that the IMS measurements are being used for 'sisterships' (around 1985 dates) in ORR.

Here's a 'cheater' IOR 3/4 tonner...now this is an ass! (1976 Contention 33, Peterson design)

Attached File  SW1 001.jpg   40.86K   37 downloads

Attached File  SW1.jpg   29.68K   36 downloads

Attached Files



#50 Sailor90

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:56 AM

Attached File  GoblinResize3.jpg   986.1K   128 downloads

Goblin had a wooden boot on the bottom of her keel.

#51 BayRacer

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 05:03 AM



There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS



N/M 49 Idler, Farr 49 Flash Gordon, R/P 66 Exile and Farr 81 Sayonara were my favs.

In '97 or '98 I remember reading an owner saying something to the effect: "This game is divided up into millionares and billionares. I'm no billionare and after this campaign I may not be a millionare anymore either."

It seems to me that IRC, even with its limitations, has produced some great boats with much more longevity. Look at all the TP52's winning in IRC and the 10 or so mini-maxis still racing. IMS boats were one and done. And the later ones were so damn ugly, no one wants them.

I also heard somewhere that the mid 90's IMS boats would make for great IRC conversions. For all you yacht design experts, any truth to that? Some of those boats still had pretty lines.


I remember seeing Idler out on the Lakes in Chicago in 2005...can't remember the name she was under then (Twister?), but she still had the Idler boom cover, turned inside out and the new name sewn on. Exile went on to be Blue Yankee and had a great run on the East Coast of the US racing against the trio of Farr 60's (Carrera, Rima and Highland Fling) and was reborn as Aroura in the last couple of years, still a great looking boat. Had a bunch of fun on the Farr 60's as IMS boats and again once they were IRC'd with new rigging, heavier bulbs, prods with masthead kites.



I don't remember all the details, but Twister is Dubois 50 right about last generation IMS boat. Sailed with them a few years before work, family, and other sailing got in way. Kevlar hull. Was Eagle(??) in UK before coming to USA/Great Lakes.

#52 strbrdtckr

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 05:12 AM

Somebody buy the damn boat, or at least make a decent offer to the old man. The boat still has a few good years in her.
She was a fun ride as Goblin.


Attached File  GoblinResize3.jpg   986.1K   128 downloads

Goblin had a wooden boot on the bottom of her keel.



#53 Presuming Ed

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 08:59 AM

IMS morfed to ORR..correct?


IMS morphed into ORCi and ORC Club - both run by the same organisation which ran IMS, the Offshore Racing Congress.

ORR - the Offshore Racing Rule - is a VPP based rule started by the Chicago YC, CCA and Transpac YC who came together to form the Offshore Racing Association. http://www.offshorerace.org/

#54 gybe-ho!

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:03 AM




There were some great IMS boats back in the day. The problem, like every rule, is when the designers figure out how to exploit the rule. Slab sided, wood keel boats were the illogical extension. The list of good IMS boats (in their all too brief day) are too numerous to name. My personal favorites remain Collaboration, Sensation, and Heartbeat.

MS



N/M 49 Idler, Farr 49 Flash Gordon, R/P 66 Exile and Farr 81 Sayonara were my favs.

In '97 or '98 I remember reading an owner saying something to the effect: "This game is divided up into millionares and billionares. I'm no billionare and after this campaign I may not be a millionare anymore either."

It seems to me that IRC, even with its limitations, has produced some great boats with much more longevity. Look at all the TP52's winning in IRC and the 10 or so mini-maxis still racing. IMS boats were one and done. And the later ones were so damn ugly, no one wants them.

I also heard somewhere that the mid 90's IMS boats would make for great IRC conversions. For all you yacht design experts, any truth to that? Some of those boats still had pretty lines.


I remember seeing Idler out on the Lakes in Chicago in 2005...can't remember the name she was under then (Twister?), but she still had the Idler boom cover, turned inside out and the new name sewn on. Exile went on to be Blue Yankee and had a great run on the East Coast of the US racing against the trio of Farr 60's (Carrera, Rima and Highland Fling) and was reborn as Aroura in the last couple of years, still a great looking boat. Had a bunch of fun on the Farr 60's as IMS boats and again once they were IRC'd with new rigging, heavier bulbs, prods with masthead kites.



I don't remember all the details, but Twister is Dubois 50 right about last generation IMS boat. Sailed with them a few years before work, family, and other sailing got in way. Kevlar hull. Was Eagle(??) in UK before coming to USA/Great Lakes.


Maybe I am mistaken on the name Twister then, I remember the inside out boom cover and also the boat had a wheel that was altered to look like it was damaged or twisted, hence my recollection (wrongly) of the name.

#55 gybe-ho!

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 09:21 AM

Love those Sharon Green shots of Exile. I do believe those were from one of the last editions of the Kenwood Cup. The demise of Kenwood was one of the casualties of IMS getting so out of hand.

Here's a pic I found of Exile (Aurora) and Blue Yankee. Really cool to see 12 years of design evolution and IMS vs. IRC from the same design office.

Posted Image


Two Blue Yankees side by side, cool! Good to see that the new boat finally grew a prod, she seemed odd running that huge pole.

#56 BayRacer

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 02:13 PM

I don't remember all the details, but Twister is Dubois 50 right about last generation IMS boat. Sailed with them a few years before work, family, and other sailing got in way. Kevlar hull. Was Eagle(??) in UK before coming to USA/Great Lakes.
[/quote]

Maybe I am mistaken on the name Twister then, I remember the inside out boom cover and also the boat had a wheel that was altered to look like it was damaged or twisted, hence my recollection (wrongly) of the name.
[/quote]

Twister's wheel has one-to-one linkage to emulate tiller control. It spans pretty much whole cockpit. The bottom of the wheel does have "flats" to allow for walkway through cockpit at the dock.

#57 Bow Movement

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Posted 16 February 2012 - 03:45 PM

I'll never forget this gem.

Posted Image

#58 Blur

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 05:31 PM

Still popular in Chile. ORCi 42 by Javier Soto Acebal.
http://www.sotoacebal.com/sailboat.htm

Posted Image

Posted Image

#59 Swimsailor

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:31 PM

Still popular in Chile. ORCi 42 by Javier Soto Acebal.
http://www.sotoacebal.com/sailboat.htm

Posted Image

Posted Image


Amazing. I lived in Santiago in the mid 90's. Cool to see that fleet alive and well!

#60 Icedtea

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 06:50 PM

Still popular in Chile. ORCi 42 by Javier Soto Acebal.
http://www.sotoacebal.com/sailboat.htm

Posted Image

Posted Image


Those sides are ridiculous......

#61 Presuming Ed

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:09 AM

Promo...or Ptarmigan as she once was:

Posted Image

This is a very early shot of her test sailing. Later lost the shoe on the keel, took the lead out of the bilge and put it into a new short fat keel, longer pole and masthead kites. We should have left her in the Lakes after 2005 Harbor Springs regatta.


For sale. Price: $289,000. Value......

http://www.yachtworl...3/United-States




#62 gybe-ho!

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:31 AM

Nice find Ed, so much I'd forgotten about that goofy boat, ahhhh mammaries!

#63 facthunt

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 12:18 PM

delivered an ims boat for optimisation once, they took lead out of the keel and put it in the mast (shaky jake)
apparently this improved the rating no end.
parked it half way back and told the owner to find another jokey.

#64 elby

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:03 PM

IMS morfed to ORR..correct?

I've found that the IMS measurements are being used for 'sisterships' (around 1985 dates) in ORR.

Here's a 'cheater' IOR 3/4 tonner...now this is an ass! (1976 Contention 33, Peterson design)

Attached File  SW1 001.jpg   40.86K   37 downloads

Attached File  SW1.jpg   29.68K   36 downloads


going downwind was like going to the casino... you never knew which way it would broach!

#65 SemiSalt

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 06:49 PM

I saw Ptarmigan many times, and I never thought she was ugly.

I came across this article a day or two ago: http://www.usna.edu/...ler/MTcombo.pdf They found that the IMS VPP was excellent. That would be for evaluating boats not designed to it.

There is no rule of physics that says the fastest boats have to be beautiful, easy to sail, or devoid of idiotic features.




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