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SL33 vs M32


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Poll: SL33 vs M32 (72 member(s) have cast votes)

Which is faster?

  1. SL33 (41 votes [56.94%])

    Percentage of vote: 56.94%

  2. M32 (31 votes [43.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 43.06%

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#1 nroose

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 04:39 PM

That's Marstrom 32, not Melges 32.

#2 notallthere

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 05:59 PM

The ETNZ SL33's with wing...

#3 vmg

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 06:57 PM

Don't know - they haven't raced each other yet!

#4 orphic

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:25 PM

Rumor has it the SL33 has been beaten by a Ventilo M28, so the M32 has to be the faster of the pair.

#5 Cakewalk

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Posted 15 February 2012 - 08:35 PM

I bet in speed they are damn close but for the price you could get 3 Russian girls and a m32 for the same cost as a SL33



#6 SL33_SF

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 07:50 PM

Apples and oranges...
The only thing these boats have in common are the size and that they are both built in superb quality and finish.
Concept, design, intended use, etc. are quite different.
Just one example: The SL33 is designed to use up to three different foresails, with up to 2t of forestay load.
This allows a change in sail area both up- and downwind of 200%, within seconds and without slowing down.
And that's before even touching the reefing system.

It will take a while until we have good speed data where crews of similar capabilities compete in a variety of conditions.
People who (should) know say the soft sail SL33 can be faster than the AC45.
What is certain is that the SL33 is by far the best researched catamaran between 20 and 40ft ; with ETNZ logging and analyzing hundreds of hours of two boat testing data with precision instruments.

While both the M32 and the SL33 are surprisingly easy and incredibly fun to sail in <20kn (don't believe all that "extreme"/"only the best sailors" BS), they are not easy to sail fast...
I am expecting to sail my SL33 at least 30% faster in two years; yes that's a few knots faster at all times. Some of it will be modifications, based on knowhow gained by AC teams, most of it improvement in handling and trim.

SL33 vs. M32? Go sail on both, understand the differences, check your requirements; but most important: GET ONE!
They are both more fun than you ever had on the water.

I love the AC, but I don't believe that the 'future of sailing' should lie in giving the coolest toys to others, then pay them to have a blast while watching from shore?

No commercial interests here, just trying to improve the world.
;-)

#7 soma

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Posted 17 February 2012 - 11:36 PM

Does someone better informed than I know the prices for the two?

#8 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:01 AM

I think the SL-33 is something like 25% more than the M32, though please correct me, Marstrom or SL-33 guys.

BTW I'll have a full report/review with pics and video of the M-32 some time over the next couple weeks. I'm sailing it all day tomorrow, unfortunately I go straight to Antigua on Sunday and will be racing right away, so the report will have to wait a bit.

#9 TheFlash

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 05:32 AM

Does someone better informed than I know the prices for the two?


A lot

and a bit more than a lot

#10 Multihauler

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Posted 18 February 2012 - 08:16 AM

I think the SL-33 is something like 25% more than the M32, though please correct me, Marstrom or SL-33 guys.

BTW I'll have a full report/review with pics and video of the M-32 some time over the next couple weeks. I'm sailing it all day tomorrow, unfortunately I go straight to Antigua on Sunday and will be racing right away, so the report will have to wait a bit.

Hey Clean,

Be sure to get the M32 guys to give you a "full" test of the lifting boards!!! :lol:



Cheers!!!

-MH

#11 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 01:56 PM

Boards were smooth as. Boat is overall just very smooth and very simple. Plenty fast too; 16 knots downwind in about 7 yesterday eve.

Marco Oquendo Photos/www.imagesbymarco.com

Attached Files



#12 flojo

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:57 AM


Does someone better informed than I know the prices for the two?


A lot

and a bit more than a lot

The SL33 is $300k and up, see here.
Why pay soooo much when you can get a Ventilo M2 for about $80k, see here.

#13 flojo

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:14 PM

Boards were smooth as. Boat is overall just very smooth and very simple. Plenty fast too; 16 knots downwind in about 7 yesterday eve.

So why are you murdering the tiller with both hands? :P

#14 SL33_SF

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:08 PM

Why pay soooo much when you can get a Ventilo M2 for about $80k, see here.

There may be a reason why second hand M2's are cheap...
A new Ventilo M2 costs over $160k.
Boat prices (and weight) typically go up with the cube of the length; if you would scale the Ventilo up, you would end up very close to the SL33 in price.
You get what you pay for.

#15 jhc

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:23 PM

How about a M&M Pro 40? $180k

http://forum.sailing...tamaran_P13275/

#16 pjadams

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 03:14 AM

I imagine the SL33 will be a bit faster, but I like the concept of the M32 more because its simpler rig requires fewer bodies and takes the "less is more" philosophy in its approach.

#17 eric e

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Posted 25 February 2012 - 05:25 AM

there was the gran-daddy of all these for sale for $20k

a 1973? R36 in australia

bought by the designer Tom Rolland

put in a container and sent back to california

#18 Sky

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:58 AM

1330147553[/url]' post='3599797']
there was the gran-daddy of all these for sale for $20k

a 1973? R36 in australia

bought by the designer Tom Rolland

put in a container and sent back to california


What about the new Toro 34 $130k Canadian $160k with carbon race sails and trailer anybody have an idea on this boat it is right in my price range and it even has sleeping berths
www.deigncatamaran.com

#19 isma

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:03 AM


there was the gran-daddy of all these for sale for $20k

a 1973? R36 in australia

bought by the designer Tom Rolland

put in a container and sent back to california


What about the new Toro 34 $130k Canadian $160k with carbon race sails and trailer anybody have an idea on this boat it right in my price rage and even has sleeping berths
www.deigncatamaran.com


How many are sailing? Zero. How many folks will be willing to put money down on a new boat building venture? Search Lightspeed to see how you will do...

#20 juniordave nz

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:11 AM

http://forums.sailin...howtopic=107603

#21 Sky

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:20 AM

1334192605[/url]' post='3668800']

1334192320[/url]' post='3668795']

1330147553[/url]' post='3599797']
there was the gran-daddy of all these for sale for $20k

a 1973? R36 in australia

bought by the designer Tom Rolland

put in a container and sent back to california


What about the new Toro 34 $130k Canadian $160k with carbon race sails and trailer anybody have an idea on this boat it right in my price rage and even has sleeping berths
www.deigncatamaran.com


How many are sailing? Zero. How many folks will be willing to put money down on a new boat building venture? Search Lightspeed to see how you will do...


I checked out the LS 32 but to be polite it is not very attractive quite the opposite at least for me . I contacted the Toro guys and they tell me they already have one boat sold and that they will be putting Toro 1 in the water within 3 to 4 weeks they are waiting for the mast from Aus. They sound solid . The boat itself looks really sexy and fast

#22 isma

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 01:26 AM




there was the gran-daddy of all these for sale for $20k

a 1973? R36 in australia

bought by the designer Tom Rolland

put in a container and sent back to california


What about the new Toro 34 $130k Canadian $160k with carbon race sails and trailer anybody have an idea on this boat it right in my price rage and even has sleeping berths
www.deigncatamaran.com


How many are sailing? Zero. How many folks will be willing to put money down on a new boat building venture? Search Lightspeed to see how you will do...


I checked out the LS 32 but to be polite it is not very attractive quite the opposite at least for me . I contacted the Toro guys and they tell me they already have one boat sold and that they will be putting Toro 1 in the water within 3 to 4 weeks they are waiting for the mast from Aus. They sound solid . The boat itself looks really sexy and fast


I guess that's your prerogative. All I can say is that nobody who was on the Lightspeed said anything negative about the boat/concept. This included Randy Smyth and Trevor Baylis, two major players in our sport. I hope it succeeds, but don't you get concerned that they don't have a boat sailing and couldn't figure out how to have the mast delivery match the launch (read, cash flow issues).

Again, I hope they succeed but where's the market. It's just a big beachcat.

#23 DaphneEdison

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:45 AM

Posted ImageThe ETNZ SL33's with wing...

#24 Sky

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:24 PM

Well I did have the same thought about cash flow but from I understand it is not a question of cash flow but around the development of the infusion process as apparently they are using a single mould infusion process not a two mould process like most orher manufacturer I am told the finish and quality is impeccable but the development of the process required more then they anticipated and that is why the delay. Bottom line is I should have a better idea in a few weeks once the boat is in the water I have asked them for a demo ride as soon as they can.

#25 eric e

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:28 PM

we are looking forward to pics

and then videosPosted Image

#26 usa35018

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:17 AM

1334193969[/url]' post='3668829']

1334193621[/url]' post='3668822']

1334192605[/url]' post='3668800']

1334192320[/url]' post='3668795']

1330147553[/url]' post='3599797']
there was the gran-daddy of all these for sale for $20k

a 1973? R36 in australia

bought by the designer Tom Rolland

put in a container and sent back to california


What about the new Toro 34 $130k Canadian $160k with carbon race sails and trailer anybody have an idea on this boat it right in my price rage and even has sleeping berths
www.deigncatamaran.com


How many are sailing? Zero. How many folks will be willing to put money down on a new boat building venture? Search Lightspeed to see how you will do...


I checked out the LS 32 but to be polite it is not very attractive quite the opposite at least for me . I contacted the Toro guys and they tell me they already have one boat sold and that they will be putting Toro 1 in the water within 3 to 4 weeks they are waiting for the mast from Aus. They sound solid . The boat itself looks really sexy and fast


I guess that's your prerogative. All I can say is that nobody who was on the Lightspeed said anything negative about the boat/concept. This included Randy Smyth and Trevor Baylis, two major players in our sport. I hope it succeeds, but don't you get concerned that they don't have a boat sailing and couldn't figure out how to have the mast delivery match the launch (read, cash flow issues).

Again, I hope they succeed but where's the market. It's just a big beachcat.

I have the Lightspeed out here in California behind my house for a summer and winter sailing her and going over making small changes for my build. I have a hull mold fee paid to Lightspeed Boats. Plan to build one beginning of next year.
I have to admit its not the sexiest boat like the sl or m32 but a lot can be fixed with the paint job. When they designed her it wasn't for looks it was for pure purpose. I don't know many cats sl 33,m32 that you can take off the California coast or race to Mexico. Im totally comfortable racing it with two crew plus my 3 kids 5,7,10 bouncing around the decks or trampoline in SfBay. Again don't know if you can do that with formetioned boats. When the kids get tired or it gets over 20 they go hang out down below in one of the four bunks standing headroom for over 6 foot 2 adult for changing and a head.
Get closer and see the impeccable build of the hulls marstrom rig her beams and she gets a lot sexier the closer you look.
I currently own a j125 and for monohull standards is great multi purpose boat but Its not even close to the Lightspeed for me. She is Easy to sail with two or three people in mid summer in sanfrancisco conditions of 25 knots, way easy to put away your done in 15 minutes after tying up. Blazing fast in anything over 10 knots. Great bow buoyancy she isn't scary to bear away. Dont get me wrong you still need to be on your toes when it's windy but I would bet the pucker factor in big breeze and waves is far less than the other boats not to mention unless you are Trevor Baylis or an Americas cup 34 vet the ls32 is probably as fast only because most owners skll levels aren't up to par and the Lightspeed woud be easier to push in marginal conditions. No offense to you Sl33 and M32 owners out there.In my opinion the Lightspeed deserves more credit. I'd love to convert anyone interested. if your in San Franciso and get Cat Fever pm me I'd love to see a few more of them ripping around sfbay.
I run a car dealership so if I was to put these boats into car descriptions
I'd say the m32 and the sl 33 are like ferrari sexy, fast, not so practical a little bit more skill to get every ounce of speed
The Lightspeed for me is the BMW M5 maybe not as sexy, still goes a tick over 200 mph will makes those Ferrari drivers say oh Shit he's pretty damn close in almost any condition. The M5 driver is in more comfort not to mention your wife and kids cold be fast asleep in the back seatPosted Image
Long live the Lightspeed 32
I'll be making some HD vids soon and will post them

#27 Keith

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:12 AM

What about the new Toro 34 $130k Canadian $160k with carbon race sails and trailer anybody have an idea on this boat it right in my price rage and even has sleeping berths
www.deigncatamaran.com
[/quote]

How many are sailing? Zero. How many folks will be willing to put money down on a new boat building venture? Search Lightspeed to see how you will do...
[/quote]

I checked out the LS 32 but to be polite it is not very attractive quite the opposite at least for me . I contacted the Toro guys and they tell me they already have one boat sold and that they will be putting Toro 1 in the water within 3 to 4 weeks they are waiting for the mast from Aus. They sound solid . The boat itself looks really sexy and fast
[/quote]

I guess that's your prerogative. All I can say is that nobody who was on the Lightspeed said anything negative about the boat/concept. This included Randy Smyth and Trevor Baylis, two major players in our sport. I hope it succeeds, but don't you get concerned that they don't have a boat sailing and couldn't figure out how to have the mast delivery match the launch (read, cash flow issues).

Again, I hope they succeed but where's the market. It's just a big beachcat.
[/quote]I have the Lightspeed out here in California behind my house for a summer and winter sailing her and going over making small changes for my build. I have a hull mold fee paid to Lightspeed Boats. Plan to build one beginning of next year.
I have to admit its not the sexiest boat like the sl or m32 but a lot can be fixed with the paint job. When they designed her it wasn't for looks it was for pure purpose. I don't know many cats sl 33,m32 that you can take off the California coast or race to Mexico. Im totally comfortable racing it with two crew plus my 3 kids 5,7,10 bouncing around the decks or trampoline in SfBay. Again don't know if you can do that with formetioned boats. When the kids get tired or it gets over 20 they go hang out down below in one of the four bunks standing headroom for over 6 foot 2 adult for changing and a head.
Get closer and see the impeccable build of the hulls marstrom rig her beams and she gets a lot sexier the closer you look.
I currently own a j125 and for monohull standards is great multi purpose boat but Its not even close to the Lightspeed for me. She is Easy to sail with two or three people in mid summer in sanfrancisco conditions of 25 knots, way easy to put away your done in 15 minutes after tying up. Blazing fast in anything over 10 knots. Great bow buoyancy she isn't scary to bear away. Dont get me wrong you still need to be on your toes when it's windy but I would bet the pucker factor in big breeze and waves is far less than the other boats not to mention unless you are Trevor Baylis or an Americas cup 34 vet the ls32 is probably as fast only because most owners skll levels aren't up to par and the Lightspeed woud be easier to push in marginal conditions. No offense to you Sl33 and M32 owners out there.In my opinion the Lightspeed deserves more credit. I'd love to convert anyone interested. if your in San Franciso and get Cat Fever pm me I'd love to see a few more of them ripping around sfbay.
I run a car dealership so if I was to put these boats into car descriptions
I'd say the m32 and the sl 33 are like ferrari sexy, fast, not so practical a little bit more skill to get every ounce of speed
The Lightspeed for me is the BMW M5 maybe not as sexy, still goes a tick over 200 mph will makes those Ferrari drivers say oh Shit he's pretty damn close in almost any condition. The M5 driver is in more comfort not to mention your wife and kids cold be fast asleep in the back seatPosted Image
Long live the Lightspeed 32
I'll be making some HD vids soon and will post them
[/quote]

The light speed 32 has great lines, and its a very good concept, reminds me a little of the raider 302, with perhaps a lot more carbon in her. Too bad its so difficult to get a market going for these demountable, trail-able, excellent sailing cats....... wish i had one or the other.... and the Toro 34 looks very good as well, only time will tell...... B)

#28 flojo

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 01:55 PM


Why pay soooo much when you can get a Ventilo M2 for about $80k, see here.

There may be a reason why second hand M2's are cheap...
A new Ventilo M2 costs over $160k.
Boat prices (and weight) typically go up with the cube of the length; if you would scale the Ventilo up, you would end up very close to the SL33 in price.
You get what you pay for.

There are about 30 Ventilo M2 built and sailing. They are rock solid. I've never seen major breaks on a Ventilo M2.
According your law a "Ventilo 33" would cost about $225k, so 25% less than a SL33.
I'm still not convinced that the SL33 ist faster than the Ventilo M2, see last results.
Perhaps we will see next weekend when all those D35, SL33, M32, Q-cat 9GT, Hydroptere.ch, Ventilo M1 and Ventilo M2 shake down in the same regatta.

Have fun!
flojo




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