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sailing a folding kayak some 70 nm away from shore


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#1 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:33 PM

We are planning to sail/paddle a 17' Long Haul Mark II Commando folding tandem kayak from Key West to the Dry Tortugas at the end of December.
We would try island hopping with a brief stop on the Marqueasas Key.
Any advice and tips based on first hand experiences sailing the area (currents, winds, nav. hazards, vhf coverage, boat traffic) would be extremely useful and highly appreciated.
Thank you.

#2 GybeSetŪ

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:36 PM

PM doug lord & trenace

they are from that neck of the woods and can advise at length

#3 hobot

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:51 PM

Franz Romer and the Klepper Kayak.

http://www.canoekaya...going-it-alone/

Big, big balls.

#4 Icedtea

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Posted 19 February 2012 - 09:58 PM

No.

Lunacy.

#5 dash34

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:17 AM

Read this

dash

#6 DoRag

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:32 AM

We are planning to sail/paddle a 17' Long Haul Mark II Commando folding tandem kayak from Key West to the Dry Tortugas at the end of December.
We would try island hopping with a brief stop on the Marqueasas Key.
Any advice and tips based on first hand experiences sailing the area (currents, winds, nav. hazards, vhf coverage, boat traffic) would be extremely useful and highly appreciated.
Thank you.


No one on this site gives a flying fuck about what it is that you are planning. Go away. Now!

#7 trenace

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 01:10 AM

Is there any evidence of any kind whatsoever that this is an offshore worthy sailing vessel?

From personal opinion only of the material I can see on it, personally I'd think the "sailing" feature to be a toy for small lakes and so forth, where if one can swim, failure just doesn't matter.

So personally I'd consider this only as a paddling trip where optionally one might try the toy.

Can't comment on safety of distance sea kayaking: I prefer to be able to swim to shore when kayaking so have never been more than a mile offshore in one.

If you're going in the summer, then most days thunderstorms are possible there.

If not going south or east of the Keys, current shouldn't be a big issue... if doing so, there can be a lot of current, up to 4 knots or so. Very favorable for 4ksb's to go with... not so good for them to try to go against.

Plenty of sharks. (Florida beaches don't suffer significantly from sharks, but offshore around the Keys is another story.) Probably the least of your issues though.

#8 Regatta Dog

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 01:17 AM


We are planning to sail/paddle a 17' Long Haul Mark II Commando folding tandem kayak from Key West to the Dry Tortugas at the end of December.
We would try island hopping with a brief stop on the Marqueasas Key.
Any advice and tips based on first hand experiences sailing the area (currents, winds, nav. hazards, vhf coverage, boat traffic) would be extremely useful and highly appreciated.
Thank you.


No one on this site gives a flying fuck about what it is that you are planning. Go away. Now!


I don't give a flying fuck myself, but based on the posts prior to yours there appears to be some interest. If the guy get's some advice that helps him out, good for him.

Lighten up, Francis.

#9 Lido Guy

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:02 AM

Is there any evidence of any kind whatsoever that this is an offshore worthy sailing vessel?


The 17' Long Haul is pretty close to the Klepper kayak in design with first rate construction, so I'd say the boat is OK for the trip. I think it's more about the crew being well prepared than the boat.

People have made some pretty amazing offshore trips in Klepper's over the years.

#10 trenace

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:27 AM

I meant sailing as the key word... I wasn't questioning the paddling safety, but rather the added sailing rig and rinky-dink-looking crossarms. Not that they may not be fine, but are they proven at sea? A question, not a denial.

I did see since posting that the OP said plainly what time of year he is planning, namely December: much more predictable than summer.

#11 FLICK OFF!

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:31 AM

What's the Stability Index?

#12 trenace

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:40 AM

Without the outriggers, AVS about 50 degrees as a guess Posted Image

#13 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:25 AM

Is there any evidence of any kind whatsoever that this is an offshore worthy sailing vessel?

The 17' Long Haul is pretty close to the Klepper kayak in design with first rate construction, so I'd say the boat is OK for the trip. I think it's more about the crew being well prepared than the boat.
People have made some pretty amazing offshore trips in Klepper's over the years.

It is actually a Klepper Aerius II Quattro with an US flavor. Arguably, better fittings than the original Klepper. Some people did cross the Atlantic in similar boats but we are not anywhere near their expertise in seamanship
The BSD sail rig is first class in its category. With a bit of custom work it can take the pounding of taller waves.
The most serious challenge seems to be the MK to DT (40 nm) segment and the return trip to KW if the east is blowing December style.
We'll take a chance and try hopping from KW to MK and decide to continue or return while resting on MK.
We can haul 60 litres of fresh water and enough food for 12-14 days, maps, compass, gps, vhf, flares, strobe, whustles, air horn, plb
Indeed, the crew must match the boat...:)

#14 Regatta Dog

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 03:41 AM

Is there any evidence of any kind whatsoever that this is an offshore worthy sailing vessel?

The 17' Long Haul is pretty close to the Klepper kayak in design with first rate construction, so I'd say the boat is OK for the trip. I think it's more about the crew being well prepared than the boat.
People have made some pretty amazing offshore trips in Klepper's over the years.

It is actually a Klepper Aerius II Quattro with an US flavor. Arguably, better fittings than the original Klepper. Some people did cross the Atlantic in similar boats but we are not anywhere near their expertise in seamanship
The BSD sail rig is first class in its category. With a bit of custom work it can take the pounding of taller waves.
The most serious challenge seems to be the MK to DT (40 nm) segment and the return trip to KW if the east is blowing December style.
We'll take a chance and try hopping from KW to MK and decide to continue or return while resting on MK.
We can haul 60 litres of fresh water and enough food for 12-14 days, maps, compass, gps, vhf, flares, strobe, whustles, air horn, plb
Indeed, the crew must match the boat...:)


"60 litres of fresh water and enough food for 12-14 days" ? You've got a 45 mile trip last leg. Have you got a GPS? If you plan on going full retard, bring all that stuff. More important, IMO, an EPIRB, life jackets....and a waterproof cell phone.

#15 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:01 AM



"60 litres of fresh water and enough food for 12-14 days" ? You've got a 45 mile trip last leg. Have you got a GPS? If you plan on going full retard, bring all that stuff. More important, IMO, an EPIRB, life jackets....and a waterproof cell phone.

There is no fresh water between KW and DT (70 nm each way) It is not like I'll be able to get any water on MK.
Apparently, there is a strong possibility one has to wait for better weather anywhere up to 10 days while on DT. The gps was mentioned on the list and pfds are part of the standard equipment. I also mentioned a plb ( epirb) on the list.
There is reliable cell coverage that far out west? Satellite phone, perhaps, cell phone, not reliable.
Have you done this trip in a kayak?
Thanks anyway.

#16 trenace

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:11 AM

In at least much of Florida there is no significant cell phone coverage offshore, at least with my carrier. Don't know about the Keys but I highly doubt it.

On waiting out the weather: Basically, if conditions are bad enough -- hurricane or tropical storm in the Gulf or approaching it, or other major systems coming in -- that one can't say with good confidence that a return the next day or the day after will be safe weather, then there isn't any real confidence that ANY day in the next 10 days will be substantially better. Sure, there could be a chance of everything looking great but then in fact seeing a reason to wait a day or two, but 10 appears extreme overkill. If 10 could possibly be necessary then the situation wasn't good enough to start out in the first place.

Here, you have periods in December (as this is your example) in which it's a very sound conclusion that weather over the next several days will be relatively mild, OR if that's not the case then it's not clear that there will be a single day that may not be outside your parameters unless they're pretty broad.

I would say either you have a clearly good weather window, or don't go. When clearly good, there won't be any unseen system racing in from a thousand miles away over the next 24-48 hours. (You weren't planning on camping a week?)

I'm assuming you're treating this as being a willing-to-paddle situation in which, what, this leg is 10 hours of paddling even with wind against you? I can certainly see the 10 days if you mean waiting for ideal winds, but why not paddle rather than do that. Imagine the absurdity of having all these days when you could have paddled, then running out of water after your 12-14 days total, and right at that point having weather arrive that actually DOES make even paddling unwise for quite some time to come?

#17 Tom Ray

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:12 AM

If you have time to wait on weather and a masochistic streak, you can certainly do it.

Coming here after my welcome to you in Cruising Anarchy shows that streak. Sorry 'bout that, but I don't make the traditions, I just observe them. ;)

And yes, I'm a faltboote owner myself. Here's mine:

Posted Image

#18 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:31 AM

Traditions, eh?...:) OK. I am sorry too. It's all good.
I want to camp on DT for three days, if we make it there and if the weather allows it, of course.
We will sail/paddle for more than 10 hours, well into the night. Last time we paddled off shore in the Everglades we had to paddle at night for about five hours. The water was calm and it was pleasant. The GPS map was the only visible source of light in the dark.
Nice rig. Is that a Klepper? I can't tell.
Thanks.

#19 tekton

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:34 AM

Just fucking do it. Write it up here after you're done.

Front Page ambitions? That'll require some tits.

#20 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:39 AM

We would rather sail most of the time...:) Paddling will be reserved for situations when there is no wind.
Yes, you're right, the weather window is a make or break for this trip.
We might hitch a ride back on the power cat if the east is blowing too strong.
I just like to drink a lot of fresh water. Especially after the 5 litres beer keg is gone.
Thanks for the advice.

#21 trenace

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:41 AM

I hope you have a great weather window and a great trip! :)

#22 Tom Ray

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:57 AM

Traditions, eh?...:) OK. I am sorry too. It's all good.
I want to camp on DT for three days, if we make it there and if the weather allows it, of course.
We will sail/paddle for more than 10 hours, well into the night. Last time we paddled off shore in the Everglades we had to paddle at night for about five hours. The water was calm and it was pleasant. The GPS map was the only visible source of light in the dark.
Nice rig. Is that a Klepper? I can't tell.
Thanks.


Yes, mine is an Aerius Expedition. I bought it in the late 90s and it is my only boat that is not really for sale.

You still owe us tits! :P

#23 DoRag

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 04:57 PM

Is this thread boring, or what?

#24 Dorado

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:35 PM

Is this thread boring, or what?



No

But you sure are :ph34r:

#25 DoRag

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:38 PM


Is this thread boring, or what?



No

But you sure are :ph34r:


No, I am not.

#26 Dorado

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:41 PM

Nomad

If I remember correctly, 3 guys in Windrider 17 trimarans did a trip very similiar to this and posted some video on Youtube.

Try googling that up and you will get a good idea of the conditions you may face

#27 Dorado

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 05:42 PM



Is this thread boring, or what?



No

But you sure are :ph34r:


No, I am not.



You're right. My bad.

Annoying is a better word :ph34r: :ph34r:

#28 DoRag

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:04 PM




Is this thread boring, or what?



No

But you sure are :ph34r:


No, I am not.



You're right. My bad.

Annoying is a better word :ph34r: :ph34r:


Word?

Adjective?

#29 One eye Jack

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:25 AM

1329759338[/url]' post='3592650']

1329757067[/url]' post='3592605']
Is this thread boring, or what?



No

But you sure are :ph34r:


Thank you

#30 spidennis

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:14 AM

Cool thread! I got this trip on my list ..... I'd be planning on using a FEKs sail with my Current Designs Extreme sea kayak. The Everglades Challenge is starting soon, so those that find this kind of stuff cool might go check it out. (others can just flip the channel and still stay bored.) I'm building a specific boat just for these challenges and trips like this, including the one talked about here.

#31 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:58 AM

Nomad
If I remember correctly, 3 guys in Windrider 17 trimarans did a trip very similiar to this and posted some video on Youtube.
Try googling that up and you will get a good idea of the conditions you may face

thank you.

#32 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:00 AM

Cool thread! I got this trip on my list ..... I'd be planning on using a FEKs sail with my Current Designs Extreme sea kayak. The Everglades Challenge is starting soon, so those that find this kind of stuff cool might go check it out. (others can just flip the channel and still stay bored.) I'm building a specific boat just for these challenges and trips like this, including the one talked about here.

good to hear that! Check your schedule in December. Two boats are safer than one.

#33 DoRag

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:18 PM

Cool thread! I got this trip on my list ..... I'd be planning on using a FEKs sail with my Current Designs Extreme sea kayak. The Everglades Challenge is starting soon, so those that find this kind of stuff cool might go check it out. (others can just flip the channel and still stay bored.) I'm building a specific boat just for these challenges and trips like this, including the one talked about here.


This is not a "cool thread."

WTF?

#34 Clove Hitch

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:31 PM


Cool thread! I got this trip on my list ..... I'd be planning on using a FEKs sail with my Current Designs Extreme sea kayak. The Everglades Challenge is starting soon, so those that find this kind of stuff cool might go check it out. (others can just flip the channel and still stay bored.) I'm building a specific boat just for these challenges and trips like this, including the one talked about here.


This is not a "cool thread."

WTF?


I think most people would find your idea of "cool" a yawn-fest (an old-fashioned and going to bed at 8 PM). Sailing a kayak like the OP is planning to do takes some balls, so it's no wonder the appeal is lost on you.


But here is a bit of cool to placate you.



#35 DoRag

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:39 PM



Cool thread! I got this trip on my list ..... I'd be planning on using a FEKs sail with my Current Designs Extreme sea kayak. The Everglades Challenge is starting soon, so those that find this kind of stuff cool might go check it out. (others can just flip the channel and still stay bored.) I'm building a specific boat just for these challenges and trips like this, including the one talked about here.


This is not a "cool thread."

WTF?


I think most people would find your idea of "cool" a yawn-fest (an old-fashioned and going to bed at 8 PM). Sailing a kayak like the OP is planning to do takes some balls, so it's no wonder the appeal is lost on you.


But here is a bit of cool to placate you.



Brave talk there Clove Bitch. Be advised the clock is ticking. The judge has been very patient with SA's contin ued attempts to delay the final day for the SLAPP appeal. Apres that, the deluge. Mr Nes Pas has moved on to other celebrity lawsuits, but I'm sure he can be enticed to get back in this one. I understand he kept his cammo, including the white polar bear costume for serving the Minn winter infidels.

Tick, tock. Tick tock.

Like with OBL, there will soon be a knock on the door of your double wide at night. You will not know whether it's the SEALS or Mr. Nes Pas. Regardless, the result will be the same. I'm glad I'm not you.

#36 Clove Hitch

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:43 PM

Brave talk there Clove Bitch. Be advised the clock is ticking. The judge has been very patient with SA's contin ued attempts to delay the final day for the SLAPP appeal. Apres that, the deluge. Mr Nes Pas has moved on to other celebrity lawsuits, but I'm sure he can be enticed to get back in this one. I understand he kept his cammo, including the white polar bear costume for serving the Minn winter infidels.

Tick, tock. Tick tock.

Like with OBL, there will soon be a knock on the door of your double wide at night. You will not know whether it's the SEALS or Mr. Nes Pas. Regardless, the result will be the same. I'm glad I'm not you.


See what I mean? Y A W N.

#37 spidennis

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:57 PM

To get back on Topic ......

this is my very sea worthy and good load carrying kayak that I'd do this trip in:

Posted Image



and here's the link to the Flat Earth kayak sails
Mick from down under has a pretty serious bit of kit,
and guys like KnarlyDog use them quite a bit.
The new 1 meter sail is being used in the Everglades Challenge starting in a couple of weeks.
It's good to see what some of the other adventurers are doing so you can learn and adapt.

#38 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:20 PM

To get back on Topic ......

this is my very sea worthy and good load carrying kayak that I'd do this trip in:

Posted Image



and here's the link to the Flat Earth kayak sails
Mick from down under has a pretty serious bit of kit,
and guys like KnarlyDog use them quite a bit.
The new 1 meter sail is being used in the Everglades Challenge starting in a couple of weeks.
It's good to see what some of the other adventurers are doing so you can learn and adapt.


looks good and definitely seaworthy. ! Are you participating in the Everglades Challenge?

I was asking about December, if you'd like to try the Dry Tortugas sail...:)

See what I mean? Y A W N.


..:)

#39 spidennis

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:34 PM

the EC is on my list, next year.
I WAS supposed to enter the CFC, the Cross Florida Challenge last year but it got cancelled. It was stage 4 (out of 5) of the 1200 Ultimate Florida Challenge that I'm gearing up for. I needed to scout the section of stage 4 to understand and help design my boat that I'll enter. "Bad Kitty" is her name, a folding biplane rigged beach cat. This would also be a good boat for doing this trip but it's far from ready.
December huh? I'll have to keep that in mind. I should be doing anything else at that time so it's very possible!

#40 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:04 PM

the EC is on my list, next year.
I WAS supposed to enter the CFC, the Cross Florida Challenge last year but it got cancelled. It was stage 4 (out of 5) of the 1200 Ultimate Florida Challenge that I'm gearing up for. I needed to scout the section of stage 4 to understand and help design my boat that I'll enter. "Bad Kitty" is her name, a folding biplane rigged beach cat. This would also be a good boat for doing this trip but it's far from ready.
December huh? I'll have to keep that in mind. I should be doing anything else at that time so it's very possible!


well, December seems far at this point, but let's keep in touch.

#41 mad

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:58 PM

Surprised Mikey hasn't popped up for this one, seem to remember he was a kayak guy.

He might even cut you a deal for a De-sal unit.

#42 couchsurfer

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:09 PM



Is this thread boring, or what?

No,,But you sure are :ph34r:


No, I am not.


..ahh,,time for your hat,,dodo..... :)

Attached File  DoRag.jpg   17.81K   1 downloadsAttached File  DoRag.jpg   17.81K   1 downloadsAttached File  DoRag.jpg   17.81K   1 downloads

#43 MisterMoon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:11 PM

In December, you'll need to time between cold fronts. Being out on the passage between Marquesas and DT would be pretty treacherous in any small craft. Twenty-five knot northerlies will blow you straight to Cuba if you aren't careful.

I've been corresponding with a couple of guys who are attempting sailing from KW to DT in a Joel White Marsh Cat (15' x 6'11"). They were planning on starting last Sunday, sailing out to Marquesas and waiting on a weather window for passage to DT. They don't have the option of folding up their boat for the return trip like you do, so getting back may take a while.

I've got this trip on my bucket list as well, but I'd prefer to do it in a big dinghy and preferably in the company of a couple of other boats.

#44 couchsurfer

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 08:13 PM

If you have time to wait on weather and a masochistic streak, you can certainly do it.

Coming here after my welcome to you in Cruising Anarchy shows that streak. Sorry 'bout that, but I don't make the traditions, I just observe them. ;)

And yes, I'm a faltboote owner myself. Here's mine:

Posted Image


..yer might want t'add a few reef-points for a passage,no? :unsure:

...what's it rate,,anyways??? :)

#45 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:45 PM

In December, you'll need to time between cold fronts. Being out on the passage between Marquesas and DT would be pretty treacherous in any small craft. Twenty-five knot northerlies will blow you straight to Cuba if you aren't careful.

I've been corresponding with a couple of guys who are attempting sailing from KW to DT in a Joel White Marsh Cat (15' x 6'11"). They were planning on starting last Sunday, sailing out to Marquesas and waiting on a weather window for passage to DT. They don't have the option of folding up their boat for the return trip like you do, so getting back may take a while.

I've got this trip on my bucket list as well, but I'd prefer to do it in a big dinghy and preferably in the company of a couple of other boats.


Yes, many people point in the same direction. the weather window is the most important aspect. Timing... ending up in Cuba, or even in the Yucatan Peninsula..:)

A few, 3-4, boats would be ideal.

#46 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:48 PM

..yer might want t'add a few reef-points for a passage,no? :unsure:

...what's it rate,,anyways??? :)



I have the reef points.

Posted Image

#47 DoRag

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:50 PM

Hey, SA is a site about yacht racing. It is not for dudes with facial hair in kayaks.

Go away.

#48 TimFordi550#87

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:59 PM

DoucheRag must be off his meds again. Time to put the poor sod back on "IGNORE"

Pretty nifty looking little passage maker there, Nomads. Put's my 80's era lateen rigged Folbot to shame...the naugahyde skin now rotting in some landfill somewhere.

Best of luck with the trip, slightly envious!

#49 spidennis

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:13 PM


..yer might want t'add a few reef-points for a passage,no? :unsure:

...what's it rate,,anyways??? :)



I have the reef points.

Posted Image


You got a spray skirt for this? I'm gonna install a bilge pump because there's been times .......
and it's easy enough when close to shore to deal with,
but offshore for a long ways and in bad seas I just don't want to let loose of the paddle for the manual pump.
all there serious guys got them, yeah they weigh but it's not like I got to portage this over my head.

#50 Damaged Goods

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 10:43 PM

See thread above named "Wearing PFD Offshore"

#51 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:07 PM

Surprised Mikey hasn't popped up for this one, seem to remember he was a kayak guy.

He might even cut you a deal for a De-sal unit.


as in the Katadyn hand operated unit?

#52 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:13 PM

You got a spray skirt for this? I'm gonna install a bilge pump because there's been times .......
and it's easy enough when close to shore to deal with,
but offshore for a long ways and in bad seas I just don't want to let loose of the paddle for the manual pump.
all there serious guys got them, yeah they weigh but it's not like I got to portage this over my head.


Posted Image

yes, I do have spray skirts.

Although not a bad idea, I definitely see the point, I am not sure about that bilge pump for me... I don't want a battery/motor etc. on board. We are two, so one paddles and one gets the water out..:)

#53 MisterMoon

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:30 PM

Hey, SA is a site about yacht racing. It is not for dudes with facial hair in kayaks.

Go away.


It's not Yacht Racing Anarchy...

If kiteboarding is sailing, then so is this.

Go away yourself. You could be my first 'ignore'.

#54 spidennis

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:44 PM


You got a spray skirt for this? I'm gonna install a bilge pump because there's been times .......
and it's easy enough when close to shore to deal with,
but offshore for a long ways and in bad seas I just don't want to let loose of the paddle for the manual pump.
all there serious guys got them, yeah they weigh but it's not like I got to portage this over my head.


Posted Image

yes, I do have spray skirts.

Although not a bad idea, I definitely see the point, I am not sure about that bilge pump for me... I don't want a battery/motor etc. on board. We are two, so one paddles and one gets the water out..:)


oh man do you have those Rambo colors going on or what? you got no problem with stealth camping huh?!

#55 DoRag

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:52 PM

This thread sucks.

#56 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:02 AM



You got a spray skirt for this? I'm gonna install a bilge pump because there's been times .......
and it's easy enough when close to shore to deal with,
but offshore for a long ways and in bad seas I just don't want to let loose of the paddle for the manual pump.
all there serious guys got them, yeah they weigh but it's not like I got to portage this over my head.


Posted Image

yes, I do have spray skirts.

Although not a bad idea, I definitely see the point, I am not sure about that bilge pump for me... I don't want a battery/motor etc. on board. We are two, so one paddles and one gets the water out..:)


oh man do you have those Rambo colors going on or what? you got no problem with stealth camping huh?!


Huh? Oh..:) I got used to olive drab, you don't have to wash it too often and it melts well in the backround. Animals, especially birds, don't get spooked, etc.

#57 Timbo

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:22 AM

+1000

I can't swim 5 miles @ sea.... no fuckin way I will put my ass in the water on purpose 35mi from land... just sayin..

Have you READ Darwin???

This thread sucks.



#58 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:31 AM

+1000

I can't swim 5 miles @ sea.... no fuckin way I will put my ass in the water on purpose 35mi from land... just sayin..

Have you READ Darwin???


This thread sucks.


The good thing is that you don't have to..:)

#59 some dude

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:49 AM




You got a spray skirt for this? I'm gonna install a bilge pump because there's been times .......
and it's easy enough when close to shore to deal with,
but offshore for a long ways and in bad seas I just don't want to let loose of the paddle for the manual pump.
all there serious guys got them, yeah they weigh but it's not like I got to portage this over my head.


Posted Image

yes, I do have spray skirts.

Although not a bad idea, I definitely see the point, I am not sure about that bilge pump for me... I don't want a battery/motor etc. on board. We are two, so one paddles and one gets the water out..:)


oh man do you have those Rambo colors going on or what? you got no problem with stealth camping huh?!


Huh? Oh..:) I got used to olive drab, you don't have to wash it too often and it melts well in the backround. Animals, especially birds, don't get spooked, etc.


neither does the sun. you'll need a bilge pump just for the sweat

#60 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:06 AM





You got a spray skirt for this? I'm gonna install a bilge pump because there's been times .......
and it's easy enough when close to shore to deal with,
but offshore for a long ways and in bad seas I just don't want to let loose of the paddle for the manual pump.
all there serious guys got them, yeah they weigh but it's not like I got to portage this over my head.


Posted Image

yes, I do have spray skirts.

Although not a bad idea, I definitely see the point, I am not sure about that bilge pump for me... I don't want a battery/motor etc. on board. We are two, so one paddles and one gets the water out..:)


oh man do you have those Rambo colors going on or what? you got no problem with stealth camping huh?!


Huh? Oh..:) I got used to olive drab, you don't have to wash it too often and it melts well in the backround. Animals, especially birds, don't get spooked, etc.


neither does the sun. you'll need a bilge pump just for the sweat


Not quite. This picture was taken in December off the coast of Florida. No sweat at all, as a matter of fact we even used wind jackets on top of the shirts. Clothing choices, color and fabric,I am not am not worried about. There are other problems to solve.

#61 Dorado

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:25 AM

What are you predicting for freshwater consumption?

6 to 8 liters a day x 2 people = 4 to 5 days max

#62 trenace

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:39 AM

Btw the weather there can be anywhere from quite hot in December, to pretty cold.

I actually moved from Miami in 87 largely because almost the entire winter had been hot and some of it very much so. But that's not to say that hot is guaranteed: just that it's quite possible, unlike what you experienced when your previous picture was taken.


#63 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:42 AM

What are you predicting for freshwater consumption?

6 to 8 liters a day x 2 people = 4 to 5 days max


3 litres person/day is reasonable

I can take 60 litres of fresh water easily. Better stability along the keel too. So, 10 days worth of fresh water. We'll take a hand operated desalinator, just in case. Drinking water won't be a problem.

On our last trip we played tanker leaving port with 62 litres of fresh water, 5 litres of beer, 4 litres of energizer and 1 litre of wine..:)

#64 spidennis

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:45 AM

What are you predicting for freshwater consumption?

6 to 8 liters a day x 2 people = 4 to 5 days max


A couple of years ago I paddled the Texas Coast from the Rio Grande River to Port Arthur, 466 miles according to my spot tracker. I was in a much smaller sea kayak but started out the trip with 7 gallons, then bumped it up to 8. I started out each day with a gallon of gatoraide mixed and ready, total for the day was 1.5 gallons each day. Now I did have water sources at various places along the way but I did get down to only one gallon at one point. The DT trip, with it being soooo remote and no chance of resupply I'd carry more, plenty more! I'll have to do a packing job on my yak to see just how it goes.

With two people that's gonna be some weight!

#65 spidennis

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:50 AM


What are you predicting for freshwater consumption?

6 to 8 liters a day x 2 people = 4 to 5 days max


3 litres person/day is reasonable

I can take 60 litres of fresh water easily. Better stability along the keel too. So, 10 days worth of fresh water. We'll take a hand operated desalinator, just in case. Drinking water won't be a problem.

On our last trip we played tanker leaving port with 62 litres of fresh water, 5 litres of beer, 4 litres of energizer and 1 litre of wine..:)


hand operated desalinator? where did you find that? I bet is wasn't cheap! used one during water survival training while I was in the USAF. wish I had it now!

#66 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:55 AM

Btw the weather there can be anywhere from quite hot in December, to pretty cold.

I actually moved from Miami in 87 largely because almost the entire winter had been hot and some of it very much so. But that's not to say that hot is guaranteed: just that it's quite possible, unlike what you experienced when your previous picture was taken.


We paddled the Everglades three winters in a row. It was never too hot. As a matter of fact in 2010 we had 35 F. while camping on the beach. December is pleasant and bearable in terms of temperature.

We camped in the Death Valley in August, we camped on the beaches of Yucatan in August...:) We crossed the Gobi Desert in July., crossed the Kalahari off road, whatever, always wearing olive drab and long sleeves. Temperature and drinking water are not a problem in the Gulf.

The wind, the current and the steep breakers are the real problem we need to address. The weather window...

#67 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:59 AM



What are you predicting for freshwater consumption?

6 to 8 liters a day x 2 people = 4 to 5 days max


3 litres person/day is reasonable

I can take 60 litres of fresh water easily. Better stability along the keel too. So, 10 days worth of fresh water. We'll take a hand operated desalinator, just in case. Drinking water won't be a problem.

On our last trip we played tanker leaving port with 62 litres of fresh water, 5 litres of beer, 4 litres of energizer and 1 litre of wine..:)


hand operated desalinator? where did you find that? I bet is wasn't cheap! used one during water survival training while I was in the USAF. wish I had it now!


Katadyn makes one for emergency situations. Not a cheap option..:(

#68 trenace

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:06 AM


Btw the weather there can be anywhere from quite hot in December, to pretty cold.

I actually moved from Miami in 87 largely because almost the entire winter had been hot and some of it very much so. But that's not to say that hot is guaranteed: just that it's quite possible, unlike what you experienced when your previous picture was taken.


We paddled the Everglades three winters in a row. It was never too hot. As a matter of fact in 2010 we had 35 F. while camping on the beach.

Well, yes, that can happen, but I've lived in South Florida and by no means is that necessarily going to happen.

Absolutely it can be in the mid or even high 80's in December and with plenty of humidity (relative humidity in the 80s) as well, and with pretty decent sun. Not like summer of course, but still adding heat to the body. Key West as well as Miami.

What I am saying is don't assume conditions will be like your other trips, in terms of planning water.

#69 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:18 AM



Btw the weather there can be anywhere from quite hot in December, to pretty cold.

I actually moved from Miami in 87 largely because almost the entire winter had been hot and some of it very much so. But that's not to say that hot is guaranteed: just that it's quite possible, unlike what you experienced when your previous picture was taken.


We paddled the Everglades three winters in a row. It was never too hot. As a matter of fact in 2010 we had 35 F. while camping on the beach.

Well, yes, that can happen, but I've lived in South Florida and by no means is that necessarily going to happen.

Absolutely it can be in the mid or even high 80's in December and with plenty of humidity (relative humidity in the 80s) as well, and with pretty decent sun. Not like summer of course, but still adding heat to the body. Key West as well as Miami.

What I am saying is don't assume conditions will be like your other trips, in terms of planning water.



Point well taken. I am taking enough water for about 10-12 days. I am planning to spend 2 days going to DT 3 days on DT and 2 days back to KW.

With the desalinator I can meet the chalkenge of going beyond 12-14 days. I am not planning to spend more than 14-16 days on the water. If the unexpected happens we'll deal with it.

#70 spidennis

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:28 AM

I hadn't gone looking for this stuff in several years and it doesn't look like much has changed.
There is this option, SeaPack, which is much easier on the wallet!.

#71 MisterMoon

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:11 AM

Watching the video of your recent Everglades trip makes me wonder how well your boat would fare in big waves with large cruising load you guys carry. I'd worry about swamping out first and being able to achieve VMG on course to your destination second. You seem to understand the consequences of not picking a good weather window, so I expect you'd be just fine.

I've sailed in company with a lighter boat (Kruger Sea Wind) with a BSD rig and they go pretty well, but my big dinghy goes quite a bit faster. That 50-odd mile passage from Marquesa to DT could be a 20 hour slog if the wind goes wrong. As long as you are mentally prepared to suffer, it won't be so bad. Last year I spent 34 hours straight in my boat beating to my destination dead to windward in WX that varied from less than 5 knots and calm seas to 25 knots with higher gusts in 5-7 foot seas. At the end of it, I was a hurtin' puppy. But I'd do it again in a minute.

I've got a DT trip on my bucket list, but it's going to be a couple of years before I'm able to pull it off. Hopefully we'll have a nice report from you guys for inspiration before I go myself.

#72 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 04:33 AM

Still dreaming of finding a second sailing yak, or dinghy, to assemble a small flotilla...:) If not possible and if it is meant to happen we will sail/paddle to DT. If we fail we learn another valuable lesson.

Thank you.

#73 Tom Ray

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 10:57 AM


If you have time to wait on weather and a masochistic streak, you can certainly do it.

Coming here after my welcome to you in Cruising Anarchy shows that streak. Sorry 'bout that, but I don't make the traditions, I just observe them. ;)

And yes, I'm a faltboote owner myself. Here's mine:

Posted Image


..yer might want t'add a few reef-points for a passage,no? :unsure:

...what's it rate,,anyways??? :)


If my boat goes to the Tortugas, and it probably will, it will do so inside its carry bags aboard a more appropriate boat for the trip. It's not a way to get there. It's a toy for when I get there.

#74 Foreverslow

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 12:22 PM

Still dreaming of finding a second sailing yak, or dinghy, to assemble a small flotilla...:) If not possible and if it is meant to happen we will sail/paddle to DT. If we fail we learn another valuable lesson.

Thank you.


If you fail, Darwin can snatch your life pal.

Suggest you do it the other way.
Easy to assemble a flotilla.
http://www.caranddriver.com/features/sail-to-the-usa-in-a-chevrolet

#75 DoRag

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:53 PM

This thread is clear evidence that SA has become flypaper for freaks......

#76 spidennis

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:13 PM


Still dreaming of finding a second sailing yak, or dinghy, to assemble a small flotilla...:) If not possible and if it is meant to happen we will sail/paddle to DT. If we fail we learn another valuable lesson.

Thank you.


If you fail, Darwin can snatch your life pal.

Suggest you do it the other way.
Easy to assemble a flotilla.
http://www.caranddri...-in-a-chevrolet


the problem with the flotilla is the weak link will slow down and maybe even prevent a successful trip.
Finding capable and seasoned adventure types isn't easy, and why I do most everything solo.
Darwin is there to catch those not trained and prepared.
Anyone here with a negative comment here falls into that category, this is certainly not their kind of trip,
and I'd suggest staying on big boats in the harbor where the Coast Guard is close.
Sorry to be harsh but it's true, some folks should just stay on the couch and not become a danger to others.
This is a trip that has been done before, plus there's transportation to DT!
One of my ideas is to have a friend take "the boat" over with their camping gear and extra supplies and water.
Then I'd only need to carry 1/2 the supplies and then I'd have a friend there to go explore with ....
like I said, I do most everything solo so looking for ways to bring along a not so capable friend is always nice.
For some of us, adventure is more than surfing the channels with the remote.
Trained, experienced, knowledgeable, it builds on itself until your ready for more.
oh what the frakk, what am I doing? I'm wasting my breath ...... as the saying goes, ....... IF I GOT TO EXPLAIN IT ........

#77 DoRag

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 02:42 PM



Still dreaming of finding a second sailing yak, or dinghy, to assemble a small flotilla...:) If not possible and if it is meant to happen we will sail/paddle to DT. If we fail we learn another valuable lesson.

Thank you.


If you fail, Darwin can snatch your life pal.

Suggest you do it the other way.
Easy to assemble a flotilla.
http://www.caranddri...-in-a-chevrolet


the problem with the flotilla is the weak link will slow down and maybe even prevent a successful trip.
Finding capable and seasoned adventure types isn't easy, and why I do most everything solo.
Darwin is there to catch those not trained and prepared.
Anyone here with a negative comment here falls into that category, this is certainly not their kind of trip,
and I'd suggest staying on big boats in the harbor where the Coast Guard is close.
Sorry to be harsh but it's true, some folks should just stay on the couch and not become a danger to others.
This is a trip that has been done before, plus there's transportation to DT!
One of my ideas is to have a friend take "the boat" over with their camping gear and extra supplies and water.
Then I'd only need to carry 1/2 the supplies and then I'd have a friend there to go explore with ....
like I said, I do most everything solo so looking for ways to bring along a not so capable friend is always nice.
For some of us, adventure is more than surfing the channels with the remote.
Trained, experienced, knowledgeable, it builds on itself until your ready for more.
oh what the frakk, what am I doing? I'm wasting my breath ...... as the saying goes, ....... IF I GOT TO EXPLAIN IT ........


Thanks for sharing all that......

#78 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:52 PM



Still dreaming of finding a second sailing yak, or dinghy, to assemble a small flotilla...:) If not possible and if it is meant to happen we will sail/paddle to DT. If we fail we learn another valuable lesson.

Thank you.


If you fail, Darwin can snatch your life pal.

Suggest you do it the other way.
Easy to assemble a flotilla.
http://www.caranddri...-in-a-chevrolet


the problem with the flotilla is the weak link will slow down and maybe even prevent a successful trip.
Finding capable and seasoned adventure types isn't easy, and why I do most everything solo.
Darwin is there to catch those not trained and prepared.
Anyone here with a negative comment here falls into that category, this is certainly not their kind of trip,
and I'd suggest staying on big boats in the harbor where the Coast Guard is close.
Sorry to be harsh but it's true, some folks should just stay on the couch and not become a danger to others.
This is a trip that has been done before, plus there's transportation to DT!
One of my ideas is to have a friend take "the boat" over with their camping gear and extra supplies and water.
Then I'd only need to carry 1/2 the supplies and then I'd have a friend there to go explore with ....
like I said, I do most everything solo so looking for ways to bring along a not so capable friend is always nice.
For some of us, adventure is more than surfing the channels with the remote.
Trained, experienced, knowledgeable, it builds on itself until your ready for more.
oh what the frakk, what am I doing? I'm wasting my breath ...... as the saying goes, ....... IF I GOT TO EXPLAIN IT ........


Unfortunately, you are right... Most of the people who won't try to join you on a trip, would spend a lot of time and effort to sink the idea. I am not talking about genuine and pertinent advice against the trip because that is legitimate too. But the other non-sense? As if the best way to take advantage of their free time and internet access is to pollute other posts. Quite pathetic.

It would have been our first time association with someone else on a trip, any kind of trip. Going alone implies more risk but it is much easier and definitely more pleasant. I agree that having the wrong companion is worse than being alone.

Thank you for response. You and the few others who bothered to put their honest $ 0.02

If we happen to see each other in Key West in December we may try to sail together. If not, happy and safe sails to you!

#79 mikewof

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 03:56 PM

If you have time to wait on weather and a masochistic streak, you can certainly do it.

Coming here after my welcome to you in Cruising Anarchy shows that streak. Sorry 'bout that, but I don't make the traditions, I just observe them. ;)

And yes, I'm a faltboote owner myself. Here's mine:

Posted Image


Jeez Normy, did you know those things have paddle thingies too?

#80 DoRag

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 04:46 PM

This threads sucks and has nothing to do with yacht racing.

#81 hobie17li

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:32 PM

and pray tell what do you have to do with yachting. can't
somebody a. change his meds
b. destroy his keyboard
c. TAZER him good
preferably c.

#82 hobie17li

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:41 PM

I had a Klepper II Aerius early 70s that I purchased from the dealer
in Manhattan. took it to Key west and sailed all winter out of Boyd's
campground then took it Santa Barbara and Oxnard. I think I added
plywood seat to gunnel to make it easier to get weight out a little.
check out CLC outrigger plans or kits for sailing kayaks.

#83 DoRag

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 11:11 PM

I had a Klepper II Aerius early 70s that I purchased from the dealer
in Manhattan. took it to Key west and sailed all winter out of Boyd's
campground then took it Santa Barbara and Oxnard. I think I added
plywood seat to gunnel to make it easier to get weight out a little.
check out CLC outrigger plans or kits for sailing kayaks.


Thanks for sharing all that.

#84 DoiNomazi (TwoNomads)

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 04:20 AM

I had a Klepper II Aerius early 70s that I purchased from the dealerin Manhattan. took it to Key west and sailed all winter out of Boyd'scampground then took it Santa Barbara and Oxnard. I think I addedplywood seat to gunnel to make it easier to get weight out a little.check out CLC outrigger plans or kits for sailing kayaks.

I am working on some mods too. Thank you for the answer.

#85 Tom Ray

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 08:48 AM

A friend of mine is experimenting with wing sails on Sunfish. I might try to take one of his early experiments and put it on the Klepper. Anyone put a wing on a kayak yet?

#86 mh111

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:05 PM

just reading today in our local sailing rag ('afloat') about a guy who went big game fishing in a 4m kayak. landed (?) a 100kg marlin 10nm out to sea...

ballys... :o

cheers,

#87 DoRag

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 02:29 PM

just reading today in our local sailing rag ('afloat') about a guy who went big game fishing in a 4m kayak. landed (?) a 100kg marlin 10nm out to sea...

ballys... :o

cheers,


Thanks for sharing that...




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