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I14 or 49er?


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#1 Farmer Ted

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 06:49 PM

Hi everyone, first post on this forum. I've been looking at the classified sections of various sites for the last few weeks, in search of a nice solo skiff (RS700, Musto, etc.) in the North East....and found none. So I switched to plan B and looked for a two-handled boat and found a few that were not too expensive, among them an I14 and a 49er. So my question is : which one do you think would be best as a first skiff? Now I know these are NOT easy boats and I'm fully aware that I'll swim a lot during the first season, but apart from that, is one easier to handle than the other? I don't intend to race it at a competitive level and the boat will mainly be used "just" to have fun on the water. It will be sailed in a large, deep river, with very little current and small, choppy waves. So, what do you think?

#2 ortegakid

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:07 PM

29er!!

#3 Farmer Ted

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:43 PM

I've sailed a 29er a couple of times as a crew and at 200 lbs, it often felt like I was too heavy (constant in/out on the trap). It's a great boat, but I'd like something faster ; the new XX might change that however.

#4 ortegakid

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 08:38 PM

yes, deff too heavy, there was a 49er on ebay last month for a great price, you might see if it's still for sale.

#5 17mika

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:50 PM

Hi, forget also the xx at your weight. Weight target is really like the 29er. about 49er and i14, I'd say just see what you find

#6 Dick Ishuge

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:00 PM

Hi, forget also the xx at your weight. Weight target is really like the 29er. about 49er and i14, I'd say just see what you find


at 200 you might be a bit too heavy for the 49er @ 2 up. Isnt ideal in the 170-190 range. Sure there are 200lb 49er crews, not so mych skippers and always theres the exception to the rule.

200 is about right for the 29er to float on its lines. I have sailed my daughters 29er solo and no problems. You are likely a bit less creaky than I am gettomg out on the wire, but once there its a dream. I wish the mast was more tunable like the 49ers is but then what can you get for the low price of 3k that we paid for that 29er. Not much really, these boats are a hidden gem if you can find one a whole lotta boat for the price.

There was a 29er-X thread that seems to have died. If you resurrect that you might get some advice on how to do it. Look at swift solo also althogh much more pricey in my research. I think there might be a couple of swifts either not quite finished or finished for sale on the east coast.

good luck finding them though
rick

#7 ortegakid

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:07 PM

If you want or need help on 29er-X, I can. Lot's of fun solo, and rigging makes all the diff.

#8 GybeSet®

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:11 PM

.
youse are being trolled , and falling for it hook line & sinker

49er 'first skiff' my arse

#9 cantp1

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:52 PM

Hi everyone, first post on this forum. I've been looking at the classified sections of various sites for the last few weeks, in search of a nice solo skiff (RS700, Musto, etc.) in the North East....and found none. So I switched to plan B and looked for a two-handled boat and found a few that were not too expensive, among them an I14 and a 49er. So my question is : which one do you think would be best as a first skiff? Now I know these are NOT easy boats and I'm fully aware that I'll swim a lot during the first season, but apart from that, is one easier to handle than the other? I don't intend to race it at a competitive level and the boat will mainly be used "just" to have fun on the water. It will be sailed in a large, deep river, with very little current and small, choppy waves. So, what do you think?


Newb, I notice that you're somewhere in Quebec. We have a VERY strong fleet of 49er's here in QC, in Canada and in NE NA. We generally get 10 to 15 boats at our local events and 20+ at major events like NA's or Canadians.

Right now there are a tonne of used 49er's on the market. Check out this page: http://www.pitchpole...ss/?page_id=157 . Also that's the class association page.

At 200 lbs, you're way too heavy for a 29er. You'll get killed in the under-powered i14 (unless you have the LATEST technology). You'll do just fine in the 49er with a light crew in the 150 to 160 lbs range. Oh and it's a fraction of the cost for a competitive one design 49er.

Since we have such a healthy fleet in the NE, training opportunities are abound and there are lots of regattas. We even have a novice level 49er camp coming up in June/July in Qc City.

Email me if you have any questions: trevor@49er.ca

Trev
49er Cdn Class Assn Pres

#10 GybeSet®

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:33 PM

It will be sailed in a large, deep river,

Posted Image

Farmer Ted

#11 Shu

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:42 PM


Hi everyone, first post on this forum. I've been looking at the classified sections of various sites for the last few weeks, in search of a nice solo skiff (RS700, Musto, etc.) in the North East....and found none. So I switched to plan B and looked for a two-handled boat and found a few that were not too expensive, among them an I14 and a 49er. So my question is : which one do you think would be best as a first skiff? Now I know these are NOT easy boats and I'm fully aware that I'll swim a lot during the first season, but apart from that, is one easier to handle than the other? I don't intend to race it at a competitive level and the boat will mainly be used "just" to have fun on the water. It will be sailed in a large, deep river, with very little current and small, choppy waves. So, what do you think?


Newb, I notice that you're somewhere in Quebec. We have a VERY strong fleet of 49er's here in QC, in Canada and in NE NA. We generally get 10 to 15 boats at our local events and 20+ at major events like NA's or Canadians.

Right now there are a tonne of used 49er's on the market. Check out this page: http://www.pitchpole...ss/?page_id=157 . Also that's the class association page.

At 200 lbs, you're way too heavy for a 29er. You'll get killed in the under-powered i14 (unless you have the LATEST technology). You'll do just fine in the 49er with a light crew in the 150 to 160 lbs range. Oh and it's a fraction of the cost for a competitive one design 49er.

Since we have such a healthy fleet in the NE, training opportunities are abound and there are lots of regattas. We even have a novice level 49er camp coming up in June/July in Qc City.

Email me if you have any questions: trevor@49er.ca

Trev
49er Cdn Class Assn Pres

I disagree Trev. With a 49er, you're stuck with one boat, one standardized cut on the sails and one rig design. It's optimized for a crew (ie helm and crew) weight of 350 lbs or so. With an I14 you have options: stiffer mast, more powerful sails for heavy crews and vice versa. Heck, I've heard Bieker even modified one of his designs to have a lower hull volume aft for the lighter Japanese crews. Former I-14 World champions Lindsey Irwin and (I forget his crew's name; the Crew's Union will now black ball me) were over 400 lbs iirc.

As for cost, one can always shop around for a used I-14 optimized for your crew weight. Regardless, any 14 will have way more power than a skiff newby will know what do with, so for a first skiff, most any 14 will do.
Having said that, given that OP is sailing in protected (i.e. smooth) waters, the giant dance floor and high boom on the 49er should make tacking and gybing an easier learning experience.

And Gybeset,
Lot's of 14er's had their first skiff experience on an I14, some on a 49er, so OP may not be trolling.

#12 Dick Ishuge

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:52 PM

Jeez the guy asked for a solo boat. 200lbs in a 29er is about 20-40 lbs LESS that the optimal weight -- what have you been smoking.

Dont think there is any way for a 200lb nube to solo sail an I14 even if its a penny or old rules. 49er, fuget abaaat it.

as a two up yes - dont get a 29er unless your crew is a nubile 50lber. -basically you will be sailing solo like that.

If you have a regular crew who is not a wus, then go the 49er route.

otherwise just get yourself a bladerider.

#13 GybeSet®

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Posted 20 February 2012 - 11:59 PM

Lot's of 14er's had their first skiff experience on an I14, some on a 49er, so OP may not be trolling.

as an owner / helm ?

#14 Shu

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:01 AM

Jeez the guy asked for a solo boat. 200lbs in a 29er is about 20-40 lbs LESS that the optimal weight -- what have you been smoking.

Dont think there is any way for a 200lb nube to solo sail an I14 even if its a penny or old rules. 49er, fuget abaaat it.

as a two up yes - dont get a 29er unless your crew is a nubile 50lber. -basically you will be sailing solo like that.

If you have a regular crew who is not a wus, then go the 49er route.

otherwise just get yourself a bladerider.

Dick,
I definitely missed the "solo" in OP's first post. 29er would be ok. Swift Solo would be ideal (but hard to find, and $$$$, unless you build your own).

#15 GybeSet®

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 12:07 AM

.
" Farmer Ted "

the 49er is your ideal first skiff, particularly as you have no crew

where did you find a large, deep river with hardly any current

Posted Image


#16 couchsurfer

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 02:34 AM

Jeez the guy asked for a solo boat. 200lbs in a 29er is about 20-40 lbs LESS that the optimal weight --


...yeh have to agree with 29er for singlehanding....2-220 lbs is great for these,,,29ers are a good fun reasonably inexpensive way to S'hand skiffs

...a LOT easier to do skiff s'handed,,than hoping for a regular partner which is -crucial- in skiffs

....think I saw a few used 29ers in the NE on the 29erNA site ;)

#17 Farmer Ted

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 03:34 AM

Thanks for your opinions... Just to make things clear, I DON'T intend to single hand a 49er! What I meant was : having found no solo skiff, I resigned myself to rely on a crew. Going for the 29er in solo mode didn't cross my mind, but I will give it a thought.

And for Gybeset, I am no troll... I have a fair sailing experience and although the 49er may not be the best choice as a first skiff, I have to go with what's available not too far from home. As for the river you seem so obsessed with, type "Saguenay" in Google Image and see for yourself...

#18 Big D

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 11:59 AM

Ted, Do you really want to rely on crew? You gave up your search to quickly. Did you look at the IC as an alt. to a skiff. Very light and can be cartopped. No crew and just as fast. Worth a look in my opinion. I'll send you the list if you are interested. Later DG

#19 Matt D

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:03 PM

I've seen lots of people learn to helm a "skiff" on I14s and 49ers. It will involve a lot of swimming, but that's half the fun.

The I14 can easily be modified to handle more weight.

Both the I14, 49er, and IC are all great boats, with great fleets check them both out. Ask yourself: Do you like to tinker with a boat that will allow you to innovate and customise to suit your personal prefference?

No? Go for the 49er.

Yes? Look at the IC or I14. If you want thrilling downwinds, or generally like the comraderie of team dynamics, look at the I14 - the Worlds are in Toronto in 2013, so now would be the perfect time to jump into the class.

If you preffer a more solo experience, IC could be for you. All three classes have very healthy second hand markets. I wouldn't worry about the competitiveness of your gear for the first few years, learn to sail the boat first, then upgrade to new stuff later.

Side note: if you go the double-handed route, at 200 lbs, you probably want to team up with a lighter teammate. There are some very good sailers in the 14 fleet on the heavier end of things.

With your weight, you may want to consider crewing. In these boats, crews perform many of the traditional helm roles.

Example: Upwind, the main (crew controlled) is really steering the boat, and the crew does a lot of the "gear shifting" via sail controls like the cunningham and kicker/vang. Downwind, the helm is really just keeping the boat under the rig. The crew generally controls the big sail, while the gily helms are typically not allowed to hurt their fragile hands by touching lines. :P

#20 Liquid

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:37 PM


Lot's of 14er's had their first skiff experience on an I14, some on a 49er, so OP may not be trolling.

as an owner / helm ?


Yes!

#21 BalticBandit

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 06:58 PM

Both the I14, 49er, and IC are all great boats, with great fleets check them both out. Ask yourself: Do you like to tinker with a boat that will allow you to innovate and customise to suit your personal prefference?

You mean like 1/3 of the fleet being on shore doing carbon work by the 2nd race of any windy regattae????

#22 PAllen

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Posted 21 February 2012 - 07:14 PM

The I14 is easier to handle than the 49er and more durable. You're too big for the 49er. 505's are great boats and easier to sail. Better yet, get another person and get an 18 foot skiff. The 18's are not much more expensive used and easier to sail than the 49er. Single handing a 29er is good fun, inexpensive and you can take your chick out on it too.

#23 Big D

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:33 AM

14's 505 29rs 49rs are all two person boats. Your choice of singlehanders are Contenders, Swift Solo, Musto Skiffs, and the IC. For car topping and RM the IC wins with it's s;iding seat. Is also the least money.

#24 BalticBandit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 01:49 AM

The I14 is easier to handle than the 49er and more durable.

More Durable??? Seriously? When the 49ers were at the Gorge, a couple of masts went down from getting stuck in the mud.

The last time I was in the Gorge with I-14s, 1/3 of the fleet litterally was on shore for the regatta doing carbon work. and it was a different mix each day. Modern 14s are not "more durable than a 49er. no way no how.

14's 505 29rs 49rs are all two person boats. Your choice of singlehanders are Contenders, Swift Solo, Musto Skiffs, and the IC. For car topping and RM the IC wins with it's s;iding seat. Is also the least money.

29er is a single handed option for a 200# guy as well.

#25 patos

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 05:11 AM

Whos the troll exactly here...the newbie guy kindly asking for advice or the real "troll" who just puts shit on anyone thats new

Farmer Ted...dont worry about this GS troll...its fucktard comments like his that have ruined this forum for many

i would take cantp1 kind advice and go for a test run on a 49er

good luck and let us all know how you go




It will be sailed in a large, deep river,

Posted Image

Farmer Ted



#26 BWR

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 03:48 PM


The I14 is easier to handle than the 49er and more durable.

More Durable??? Seriously? When the 49ers were at the Gorge, a couple of masts went down from getting stuck in the mud.

The last time I was in the Gorge with I-14s, 1/3 of the fleet litterally was on shore for the regatta doing carbon work. and it was a different mix each day. Modern 14s are not "more durable than a 49er. no way no how.

14's 505 29rs 49rs are all two person boats. Your choice of singlehanders are Contenders, Swift Solo, Musto Skiffs, and the IC. For car topping and RM the IC wins with it's s;iding seat. Is also the least money.

29er is a single handed option for a 200# guy as well.

\

Just wondering how many of those 49ers being sailed at the gorge are 10-15 yrs. old? Are those boats being fixed up in an afternoon and or overnight and heading back out on the course to sail again for the next session?

I just have a feeling Paul knows of what he speaks and he has sailed both boats and very high level, Personally I'm glad to hear from him as he didn't go to JJs this year.

#27 BalticBandit

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 07:45 PM



The I14 is easier to handle than the 49er and more durable.

More Durable??? Seriously? When the 49ers were at the Gorge, a couple of masts went down from getting stuck in the mud.

The last time I was in the Gorge with I-14s, 1/3 of the fleet litterally was on shore for the regatta doing carbon work. and it was a different mix each day. Modern 14s are not "more durable than a 49er. no way no how.

14's 505 29rs 49rs are all two person boats. Your choice of singlehanders are Contenders, Swift Solo, Musto Skiffs, and the IC. For car topping and RM the IC wins with it's s;iding seat. Is also the least money.

29er is a single handed option for a 200# guy as well.

\

Just wondering how many of those 49ers being sailed at the gorge are 10-15 yrs. old? Are those boats being fixed up in an afternoon and or overnight and heading back out on the course to sail again for the next session?

I just have a feeling Paul knows of what he speaks and he has sailed both boats and very high level, Personally I'm glad to hear from him as he didn't go to JJs this year.


Whats going to break on a 10 yo 49er? The blades are not. the newer racks are not. The weakest part of the boat is the rudder gantry. But I've seen those go TU on 14s in the gorge as well. Meanwhile the 49ers don't have rigging cascades for on the water adjustment of the rig, they have a stock fixed forestay attachment, they have standard issue wings instead of optimization of the rack tubes for lightness etc. etc.

I'm sure it has happened but I've never heard of a 49er blade failure except for the time the french team went backwards off their wing and splatted bug like on the blade, but I've seen I-14 blades delam and even break

Rigs and sprits can and do fail onthe 49er, but that's true of 14s as well.


The one place older 49ers "fail" is in their X bracing that results in the hull compressing inwards from stay tension. But that's an "old boat aging fix" - not a fragility issue.



Basically because I14s are a "design class" you see folks pushing the limit in various corners. and that is very cool and results in a lot of really great innovation. But it also means that they are fragile. the 49er specifically was developed on the slightly heavy side (think of what it would weigh if it was all carbon and designed that way) for manufacturability and Olympic class durability requirements.

#28 Steam Flyer

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Posted 22 February 2012 - 08:07 PM

The I14 is easier to handle than the 49er and more durable.

... ...


Truly, a statement made in passion

It reminds me of the Flying Scot sailor who adamantly insisted that the FS was faster than a Flying Dutchman. The reasoning of course is that he had "passed the couple of Flying Dutchmen at his club lots of times" and it turned out that he passed them between races when they had their jibs rolled up & the crew napping on the foredeck

:rolleyes:

But still FASTER dammit !!

FB- Doug

#29 Big D

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 05:49 PM

Go back to plan A and find the IC thats in your price range. Never been a better time to get a cheap Nethercott. Have been gathering info on available boats for sale and the boats for sale run from $1750. to $9000 for a newer DC. The list is not complete but some of the boats out there are these.
USA 189 a Nethercott with wood fordeck for $1750 in the Chesepeake
CA 37 an all wood boat in Canada for $2000 on Sailing Anarchy
USA 220 a Carbon Nethercott in the Chesepeake for $4500
USA 230 a Carbon Nethercott in San Fran for $6000 Del Olsen
USA ??? a Carbon Nethercott in San Fran for $6000 Dr. Karl
USA ??? a carbon Nethercott in San Fran price unknown from Eric Chase
USA ??? a carbon Nethercott in BC Canada thats Bob Lewis's
USA ??? a Carbon and foam DC Kaito from Willy Clark for $8000
USA ??? a Carbon a wood DC Mayhem of John Kells's for $9000
Steve Clark knows of other boats in New England for sale for various amounts in different states of completion


#30 Speedskater

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:01 PM

Farmer Ted do you plan to race or just fun sail? Do you have a nearby sailing club? In any case both I14's and 49er's are sailed at locations that are not all that far from you. This Spring I'd hang-out at clubs that have the boats and get owners to take you on tune-up sails. Lot's of times sailing is more about the people than the boats.

#31 Farmer Ted

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 11:11 PM

Farmer Ted do you plan to race or just fun sail? Do you have a nearby sailing club? In any case both I14's and 49er's are sailed at locations that are not all that far from you. This Spring I'd hang-out at clubs that have the boats and get owners to take you on tune-up sails. Lot's of times sailing is more about the people than the boats.


I'll mostly use the boat to have fun and for the Sunday races at the club (yes, it'll be in a sailing club), but I might take it to class events, who knows? I don't want to get seriously into competition, as I don't have the time nor the budget to do so. The closest fleet for the 49er is in Montreal (4.5 hours from home) ; for the I14, I guess it's Ottawa or Toronto, which are a lot more distant.

#32 Sail_FAU

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 01:16 AM


Farmer Ted do you plan to race or just fun sail? Do you have a nearby sailing club? In any case both I14's and 49er's are sailed at locations that are not all that far from you. This Spring I'd hang-out at clubs that have the boats and get owners to take you on tune-up sails. Lot's of times sailing is more about the people than the boats.


I'll mostly use the boat to have fun and for the Sunday races at the club (yes, it'll be in a sailing club), but I might take it to class events, who knows? I don't want to get seriously into competition, as I don't have the time nor the budget to do so. The closest fleet for the 49er is in Montreal (4.5 hours from home) ; for the I14, I guess it's Ottawa or Toronto, which are a lot more distant.


If you're not worried too much about class racing and just want a skiff, maybe the Vanguard Vector could work. They pop up for sale every once in a while. There is currently one listed for $3500 in Phoenix. I know that's a long way from you, but maybe transport can be worked out.

http://www.sail1design.com/marketplace/browse/sail-boats-25/vanguard-vector-3-500-used-phoenix-metro-area-arizona-l99.html

There are also a couple used 49ers on sail1design.com

#33 Todd Mouse

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 02:14 AM

I went for the 14 as a first skiff and I love it. Lots of swimming, lots of colorful language.
You can get a decent boat for a reasonable price if you look around for it and have a little patience

#34 Matt D

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 04:15 PM


Farmer Ted do you plan to race or just fun sail? Do you have a nearby sailing club? In any case both I14's and 49er's are sailed at locations that are not all that far from you. This Spring I'd hang-out at clubs that have the boats and get owners to take you on tune-up sails. Lot's of times sailing is more about the people than the boats.


I'll mostly use the boat to have fun and for the Sunday races at the club (yes, it'll be in a sailing club), but I might take it to class events, who knows? I don't want to get seriously into competition, as I don't have the time nor the budget to do so. The closest fleet for the 49er is in Montreal (4.5 hours from home) ; for the I14, I guess it's Ottawa or Toronto, which are a lot more distant.


There's a few I14s around Newport, they normally have at least a regatta each summer. I've heard that there are a few in Long Island sound as well, though I only personally know of two.

#35 Todd Mouse

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 05:06 PM

There's a few I14s around Newport, they normally have at least a regatta each summer. I've heard that there are a few in Long Island sound as well, though I only personally know of two.


There are a few OD's at Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club on Long Island, and I keep my B2 in Glen Cove. I heard a rumour that there's a B4 or B5 somewhere on the island, but I haven't seen it yet.

#36 Matt D

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 06:55 PM


There's a few I14s around Newport, they normally have at least a regatta each summer. I've heard that there are a few in Long Island sound as well, though I only personally know of two.


There are a few OD's at Seawanhaka Corinthian Yacht Club on Long Island, and I keep my B2 in Glen Cove. I heard a rumour that there's a B4 or B5 somewhere on the island, but I haven't seen it yet.


There's an Aussie ex-pat named Cameron something that had (still has for sale?), an excellent B3 that has been modified with a more modern rig and to be a self-tacker, he had a B6 built, sails out of LIS. We've raced against him several times, seems to be a solid sailer, overall a good guy.

#37 Big D

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:18 PM

Good luck with plan B.

#38 Lars Schrøder D13

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Posted 24 February 2012 - 09:46 PM

Or as a plan see go for an a-cat. I changed from the 49er and the a-cat has the same thrill.It tacks as easy as a skiff, goes faster and down wind doing wild thing comes close to the fun of 49'er

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=67Z6YFUXvz4

Have fun

Lars

#39 High Flow

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 01:02 PM

hey man,
i've sailed an older I14 and 49er on a non competitive basis for a while. We did end up going to the 49er worlds but that's a different story... (we were crap by the way)
the i14 was my first skiff coming from 2 years blasting arround with a contender (no racing).

i like the simple layout of the 49er. the high boom, lotsa place, all simple layout and it works!. the I14 i had was complicated, tiny, thousands of conrols to step over and so on...
i am a big fan of the i14 class and the development and all that but just as a boat i prefer the 49er...
the 49er is not that difficult to sail if the wind is not over 20 knots, very steady and no steep waves (like garda for example). i like the 49er as a training and thrills and spills boat for weekend adrenalin. of course there is no class at that level (at least any place i know of) and so on... but i depends on what you want.
if you find a "cheap" niner go for it. an old rig boat won't we very expensive i guess..
keep it up.

#40 _Chris_

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 02:59 PM

Go with the I14 and sail in an 80+ boat World Championships in Toronto 2013. Drive here, camp on site, great sailing and great socials. There is a fleet in Toronto and Newport that will help you get up to speed. We have great coaches, regattas and training events.

New or Used boats? We got'em too.

#41 transom

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 07:17 PM

An impassioned discussion! good on ya all..

I think most of the 14ers have sailed the 9er and vice versa. I have sailed both of them in the gorge against the world champs in each class. In my humble opinion the 14 is much more forgiving to sail, i.e. you can make mistakes and keep sailing.

But let's help this newbie skiff guy out and get him sailing our cool boats. What I am most worried about for him is getting the mainsail up and off the beach. This can be very difficult in the 49er, particularly an older boat.

My next concern is bearing away from beating to running. Another very difficult move in the 49er, but relatively easy with the t-foil rudder on the 14.

I'm glad they have the 49er well sorted and it does not break anymore. I used to say it cost us $500 every time we sailed the old Bob Gnarley, 032....

On the side of the 49er, it is simply laid out and less technically complicated. This might make great sense for him as long as someone teaches him how to get the mainsail up.

It seems to me that either boat will work well for his intended uses.

Would love to have a 49er/i-14 mixed fleet regatta in the gorge! ( a deep river that is really moving!)

#42 Reht

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:14 PM

But let's help this newbie skiff guy out and get him sailing our cool boats. What I am most worried about for him is getting the mainsail up and off the beach. This can be very difficult in the 49er, particularly an older boat.

My next concern is bearing away from beating to running. Another very difficult move in the 49er, but relatively easy with the t-foil rudder on the 14.

I'm glad they have the 49er well sorted and it does not break anymore. I used to say it cost us $500 every time we sailed the old Bob Gnarley, 032....

On the side of the 49er, it is simply laid out and less technically complicated. This might make great sense for him as long as someone teaches him how to get the mainsail up.

It seems to me that either boat will work well for his intended uses.


As you mentioned, a big part of getting going in these fleets is having other boats around to get you off the ground as the very start of the learning curve can be exceptionally steep. Fortunately there are fleets close to him for both classes (the 49er fleet is in Montreal, the I14s are a few hours past there in Ottawa and Toronto), but he still has some travelling to do to get to other boats. Unfortunately this means that for him to get to a fleet when he's not actively racing could mean some big time commitments. The 49ers around here do run beginner camps and may even be hosting one very close to his location, and that could make all the difference to getting him up and running on the boat.

My suggestion to Farmer Ted (and I'm pretty sure it was mentioned before) is to go and get a ride or two with the fleet before striking off on your own. On top of that, making the trip to an event like OSGP in early June to sail with a bunch of other boats would help get you on the right path early on, avoiding bad habits from the start will save you a lot of frustration later on. Get contact info for members of the fleet, I've found that even the top guys are willing to help you out if you're willing to listen and put the effort in.

#43 BalticBandit

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 08:35 PM

Would love to have a 49er/i-14 mixed fleet regatta in the gorge! ( a deep river that is really moving!)

Skiff Champs 3 years ago had a 49er and four I-14s there. http://photosynth.ne...d7-c39f9220060b

#44 cantp1

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:09 PM


But let's help this newbie skiff guy out and get him sailing our cool boats. What I am most worried about for him is getting the mainsail up and off the beach. This can be very difficult in the 49er, particularly an older boat.

My next concern is bearing away from beating to running. Another very difficult move in the 49er, but relatively easy with the t-foil rudder on the 14.

I'm glad they have the 49er well sorted and it does not break anymore. I used to say it cost us $500 every time we sailed the old Bob Gnarley, 032....

On the side of the 49er, it is simply laid out and less technically complicated. This might make great sense for him as long as someone teaches him how to get the mainsail up.

It seems to me that either boat will work well for his intended uses.


As you mentioned, a big part of getting going in these fleets is having other boats around to get you off the ground as the very start of the learning curve can be exceptionally steep. Fortunately there are fleets close to him for both classes (the 49er fleet is in Montreal, the I14s are a few hours past there in Ottawa and Toronto), but he still has some travelling to do to get to other boats. Unfortunately this means that for him to get to a fleet when he's not actively racing could mean some big time commitments. The 49ers around here do run beginner camps and may even be hosting one very close to his location, and that could make all the difference to getting him up and running on the boat.

My suggestion to Farmer Ted (and I'm pretty sure it was mentioned before) is to go and get a ride or two with the fleet before striking off on your own. On top of that, making the trip to an event like OSGP in early June to sail with a bunch of other boats would help get you on the right path early on, avoiding bad habits from the start will save you a lot of frustration later on. Get contact info for members of the fleet, I've found that even the top guys are willing to help you out if you're willing to listen and put the effort in.


HighFlow, Transom and Reht all hitting the nail on its head in their own way.

Luckily for FarmerTed we have 49er fleets not too far in Montreal and Qc City (kinda). Yes the OSGP is THE PLACE to be in June! Lots to learn that weekend (on the water and in the bar). One thing that everyone has failed to mention (whether good or bad) is the i14 Initiation that would most probably take place at OSGP :S.

We do also have a Novice / Intermediate 49er Training Camp in Quebec City July 5 to 8!! All those in the NE welcome to attend, just private msg me.

Regarding getting the sails up and getting off the beach, it can be tricky. But we have a nice local fleet and also online community that can help him figure out how to stretch that 1/8" spectra halyard enough to get the sail to the top.

FYI - 49er's and 29er's will be racing Aug 10 - 12 in The Gorge. I assume that the i14's could also get a start... Just email Jarvis!

49er info can be found at:

www.49erNA.org
www.49er.ca

(Shameless plug)

#45 Big D

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Posted 28 February 2012 - 09:19 PM

Better find a crew first. I bought a 18 ft skiff thinking whey would be lining up for a sail. Boy was I wrong. Just because you buy a cool boat don't think crew is automatically going to show up. Ask your crew which boat he prefers. Go from there. Go back to plan A. Look harder. IC??????

#46 Farmer Ted

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:08 PM

hey man,
i've sailed an older I14 and 49er on a non competitive basis for a while. We did end up going to the 49er worlds but that's a different story... (we were crap by the way)
the i14 was my first skiff coming from 2 years blasting arround with a contender (no racing).

i like the simple layout of the 49er. the high boom, lotsa place, all simple layout and it works!. the I14 i had was complicated, tiny, thousands of conrols to step over and so on...
i am a big fan of the i14 class and the development and all that but just as a boat i prefer the 49er...
the 49er is not that difficult to sail if the wind is not over 20 knots, very steady and no steep waves (like garda for example). i like the 49er as a training and thrills and spills boat for weekend adrenalin. of course there is no class at that level (at least any place i know of) and so on... but i depends on what you want.
if you find a "cheap" niner go for it. an old rig boat won't we very expensive i guess..
keep it up.


That's pretty much my opinion at the moment, I have found such a 49er and will probably buy it, unless something else pops up on the radar. I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's very good at sailing (she used to race at CORK), so finding a crew shouldn't be too difficult (most of the time).

#47 Shu

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Posted 01 March 2012 - 10:42 PM


hey man,
i've sailed an older I14 and 49er on a non competitive basis for a while. We did end up going to the 49er worlds but that's a different story... (we were crap by the way)
the i14 was my first skiff coming from 2 years blasting arround with a contender (no racing).

i like the simple layout of the 49er. the high boom, lotsa place, all simple layout and it works!. the I14 i had was complicated, tiny, thousands of conrols to step over and so on...
i am a big fan of the i14 class and the development and all that but just as a boat i prefer the 49er...
the 49er is not that difficult to sail if the wind is not over 20 knots, very steady and no steep waves (like garda for example). i like the 49er as a training and thrills and spills boat for weekend adrenalin. of course there is no class at that level (at least any place i know of) and so on... but i depends on what you want.
if you find a "cheap" niner go for it. an old rig boat won't we very expensive i guess..
keep it up.


That's pretty much my opinion at the moment, I have found such a 49er and will probably buy it, unless something else pops up on the radar. I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's very good at sailing (she used to race at CORK), so finding a crew shouldn't be too difficult (most of the time).

Are you lucky enough to have a girlfriend who doesn't mind having you pitch her in the water on a regular basis? 'Cause that's what you'll be doing.

#48 cantp1

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:17 PM



hey man,
i've sailed an older I14 and 49er on a non competitive basis for a while. We did end up going to the 49er worlds but that's a different story... (we were crap by the way)
the i14 was my first skiff coming from 2 years blasting arround with a contender (no racing).

i like the simple layout of the 49er. the high boom, lotsa place, all simple layout and it works!. the I14 i had was complicated, tiny, thousands of conrols to step over and so on...
i am a big fan of the i14 class and the development and all that but just as a boat i prefer the 49er...
the 49er is not that difficult to sail if the wind is not over 20 knots, very steady and no steep waves (like garda for example). i like the 49er as a training and thrills and spills boat for weekend adrenalin. of course there is no class at that level (at least any place i know of) and so on... but i depends on what you want.
if you find a "cheap" niner go for it. an old rig boat won't we very expensive i guess..
keep it up.


That's pretty much my opinion at the moment, I have found such a 49er and will probably buy it, unless something else pops up on the radar. I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's very good at sailing (she used to race at CORK), so finding a crew shouldn't be too difficult (most of the time).

Are you lucky enough to have a girlfriend who doesn't mind having you pitch her in the water on a regular basis? 'Cause that's what you'll be doing.


+1

#49 Reht

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 07:55 PM



hey man,
i've sailed an older I14 and 49er on a non competitive basis for a while. We did end up going to the 49er worlds but that's a different story... (we were crap by the way)
the i14 was my first skiff coming from 2 years blasting arround with a contender (no racing).

i like the simple layout of the 49er. the high boom, lotsa place, all simple layout and it works!. the I14 i had was complicated, tiny, thousands of conrols to step over and so on...
i am a big fan of the i14 class and the development and all that but just as a boat i prefer the 49er...
the 49er is not that difficult to sail if the wind is not over 20 knots, very steady and no steep waves (like garda for example). i like the 49er as a training and thrills and spills boat for weekend adrenalin. of course there is no class at that level (at least any place i know of) and so on... but i depends on what you want.
if you find a "cheap" niner go for it. an old rig boat won't we very expensive i guess..
keep it up.


That's pretty much my opinion at the moment, I have found such a 49er and will probably buy it, unless something else pops up on the radar. I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's very good at sailing (she used to race at CORK), so finding a crew shouldn't be too difficult (most of the time).

Are you lucky enough to have a girlfriend who doesn't mind having you pitch her in the water on a regular basis? 'Cause that's what you'll be doing.


Should add doesn't mind epoxy and sail-tape, likely to see a lot of that as you figure it out (though being careful and just bailing early is meant to help avoid that kind of problem)...

#50 Fishingmickey

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:08 PM




hey man,
i've sailed an older I14 and 49er on a non competitive basis for a while. We did end up going to the 49er worlds but that's a different story... (we were crap by the way)
the i14 was my first skiff coming from 2 years blasting arround with a contender (no racing).

i like the simple layout of the 49er. the high boom, lotsa place, all simple layout and it works!. the I14 i had was complicated, tiny, thousands of conrols to step over and so on...
i am a big fan of the i14 class and the development and all that but just as a boat i prefer the 49er...
the 49er is not that difficult to sail if the wind is not over 20 knots, very steady and no steep waves (like garda for example). i like the 49er as a training and thrills and spills boat for weekend adrenalin. of course there is no class at that level (at least any place i know of) and so on... but i depends on what you want.
if you find a "cheap" niner go for it. an old rig boat won't we very expensive i guess..
keep it up.


That's pretty much my opinion at the moment, I have found such a 49er and will probably buy it, unless something else pops up on the radar. I'm lucky enough to have a girlfriend that's very good at sailing (she used to race at CORK), so finding a crew shouldn't be too difficult (most of the time).

Are you lucky enough to have a girlfriend who doesn't mind having you pitch her in the water on a regular basis? 'Cause that's what you'll be doing.


+1



Have her drive....

#51 ortegakid

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Posted 02 March 2012 - 10:37 PM

And don't put really rough anti skid on the rails, rips the skin right off!

#52 Reht

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Posted 03 March 2012 - 04:12 PM

And don't put really rough anti skid on the rails, rips the skin right off!


On the contrary, as he's getting a double-trap boat, you definitely want that super grip on the wire, else you'll be sliding all over the place, especially as you try to get to the back of the wings...

#53 Shu

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:25 AM


And don't put really rough anti skid on the rails, rips the skin right off!


On the contrary, as he's getting a double-trap boat, you definitely want that super grip on the wire, else you'll be sliding all over the place, especially as you try to get to the back of the wings...

You can use the foam non-skid like Seadek. Excellent grip and easy on your skin, trap harness and wet suit.

#54 mustang__1

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 02:49 AM

have her drive... crewing a 49er is a pretty damn demanding task.

#55 AvidSailor

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 06:42 AM

I think you should get an I14, and i know you didn't recommend this, but for starters 29ers are usually better than 49ers, and you can use 29ers from casual to very pro areas of racing too.




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