3834 replies to this topic

[MR.CLEAN]

Race tow-out, ceremony, and the crowds. Oh, the crowds.

[ronnie_simpson]

Just got the scoop on Bertrand de Broc's boat.

"Ju-Ju" of Safran team, the most experienced preparateur in the fleet (working on his 5th Vendee campaign.....) just told me the following:

"Safran team and Virbac-Paprec team have come over to help get Bertrand back on the water. The hole is nothing major, so it should be a quick and easy fix. We have the best composite guys on it, and Bertrand should be back on the water with the next tide...." 12 hours, or maybe less is what he said.

So Bertrand should lose significantly less than 1 day in this whole ordeal.

It has just started pissing rain and the breeze is piping up. If this is the front that GFS and Euro predicted, then the fleet could be getting into 25-30 knots of breeze soon.

Attached Files

•  votre nom 1.jpg   122.62K   135 downloads
•  votre nom 3.jpg   109.91K   185 downloads
•  votre nom 2.jpg   112.39K   193 downloads
•  dock after start.jpg   142.61K   139 downloads

[spike]

I tuned into the Vendee website and watched the start live....very entertaining. I was somewhat surprised when a Seppo voice joined the commentary and realized it was Clean. Good questions, good commentary.....

[ronnie_simpson]

damn forss, how did you get that photo up so quick???

impressive!

[forss]

damn forss, how did you get that photo up so quick???

impressive!

facebook generation

[Terrorvision]

I just watched the live feed of the VG start and was wondering why I had to listen to a totally clueless american commentating with Dee, finally realizing it was no other than SA's Mr. Clean.

SA always rips on Gary Jobson and other commentators for being bad, some times rightly so but Mr. Clean is so much better when the volume is turned OFF, he's just static and non informed.

Sorry SA to rip on you but Scott if you want to play in the big international media of world sailing you should at least send a guy who on knows a thing or two about high level racing and not some PHRF rail meat dude who's best position is laughing at other peoples jokes and asking questions standing by the beer keg.

It doesn't look too good when SA is ripping on other commentators when your own commentator (Mr. Clean) doesn't know much about racing.

Just calling out a spade, a spade or do I have it wrong?


PS: Safran killed the start and a big shout out to LeoV, I miss your website and your updates in (mini) solo sailing and a big thank you to Ronnie; you have done some very nice write up's, cheers.

When Clean said he was going to be doing some of the commentating my first thought was that he would soap-box and make a bit of an ass out of himself and SA. I was tuned in when he first came on the mic and was left very impressed all the way until he signed off. I found his commentary very clear and precise and he never tried to snow-plough the other guys.
You've come a long way baby!
I wouldn't be surprised if he isn't invited back for more events.

[richie]

New tracker positions are on...Stamm is leading ...Gutek last

[MR.CLEAN]

Stamm into the lead!

[forss]

add tracker to your bookmarks:
http://tracking2012.vendeeglobe.org/en

[MR.CLEAN]

Great commentary! Any chance Clean can do voice over for the AC?

Fat chance!

[richie]

Great commentary! Any chance Clean can do voice over for the AC?

Fat chance!

Why not?...your voice sounds OK

[edelweis]

when will the tracker update?

[Potter]

What sums up this race is what Bertrand said in his press conference 'I received a sms from Marc Guillomot already. He said "one day out of 90 is not so very much...do not be disheartened"'

How much class does that show!!

[Haji]

Interesting how soon after the start we saw Stamm roll by Safran and into the lead. Now a few hours later they seem more stabilized vs. each other, and JP seems to slowly sliding by them both. Apparently after the lift started Safran started doing a bit better?

This group is leading the "middle" section of the fleet, roughly between those dipping south (led by Acciona) and the group hanging to the north (Armel, Francois, Riou).

This is going to be a rockin race....

[richie]

when will the tracker update?

...good question...??? I was looking for this info,but can't find it...

[swe727]

from the SI:

21.3.2 Rankings and positions by polling during the race
Throughout the duration of the race, competitors shall make sure that the Iridium beacons supplied by the organizer are working correctly.
Five rankings will be drawn up at the following times:
04H00 UT, 08H00 UT, 11H00 UT, 15H00 UT and 19H UT.
They will be posted on the race website and sent to the press.

[MR.CLEAN]

Marc Guillemot on Safran led out of the gate, but he is already on his way back to Les Sables (Bilou just told me).

We are told he hit something and may have keel damage. Huge bummer.

Here's marc a couple days ago

[Cyrille Hydrogene]

from the SI:

21.3.2 Rankings and positions by polling during the race
Throughout the duration of the race, competitors shall make sure that the Iridium beacons supplied by the organizer are working correctly.
Five rankings will be drawn up at the following times:
04H00 UT, 08H00 UT, 11H00 UT, 15H00 UT and 19H UT.
They will be posted on the race website and sent to the press.

Thanks ! nice to know the important times!

I was lucky enought to have a tour of Bernard Stamm's boat on Tuesday, and he told me the 5 ranking updates were the only important daily fixed schedule during the whole race. You can be sure they all keep an eye on each other!

Bernard was a REALLY nice guy, taking the time to explain in detail the layout of his cockpit, and the really smart solution he has designed with Juan K to make moving the food and the sails from side to side much easier.
He also let me have a look at his speed polars, and as Ronnie said very well, he has no hole in the polars, and should be quick at all angles.

[Cyrille Hydrogene]

Marc Guillemot on Safran led out of the gate, but he is already on his way back to Les Sables (Bilou just told me).

We are told he hit something and may have keel damage. Huge bummer.

Here's marc a couple days ago

As you say, huge bummer! Still nothing about it on the VG website, well done Alan for having the news!

[forss]

Bing translation from Safran facebook page.


Around 17: 45 (HF), Marc Guillemot heard a loud noise, probably from shock. It was sailing under staysail and mainsail 1 ris.
The decision to sail to the shore to make a point to the seriousness of the situation.
The skipper of Safran reduced sail area, it navigates currently at 4 knots and is located at near 50 miles from les Sables D'olonne.

More information you will be communicated after diagnosis of the vessel upon arrival in les Sables D'olonne.

[Big Show]

Mostly raw video of riding in the Acciona RIB down the infamous canal with 300,000 adoring fans cheering on the skippers.

Wow. Just... Wow.

Simply amazing. What an energy.

[oioi]

from the SI:

21.3.2 Rankings and positions by polling during the race
Throughout the duration of the race, competitors shall make sure that the Iridium beacons supplied by the organizer are working correctly.
Five rankings will be drawn up at the following times:
04H00 UT, 08H00 UT, 11H00 UT, 15H00 UT and 19H UT.
They will be posted on the race website and sent to the press.

Dont you just love the french, No spacing outover a 24hr period for a global audience...

Real bummer for safran, lets hope they can turn it around quickly.

[forss]

progress of repairs

[Mambo Kings]

Marc Guillemot on Safran led out of the gate, but he is already on his way back to Les Sables (Bilou just told me).

It pays to study the form guide of that noted American commentator.

Was it Gary Jobson who wrote.....

Marc Guillemot/Safran – As cool as Guillemot’s partnership is with military research and manufacturer Safran, there’s just something about their partnership that makes me uneasy. Mixing different standards (the sailors/designers vs corporate scientists) can create problems that don’t show themselves until its too late, and Guillemot could bow out early with a rig or structure failure.

?

Lets hope he is wrong this time.

[Speng]

Just finished watching all the interviews and commentary...

Clean you are very soon going to be the mainstream. Loved the setup of the broadcast with Dee being the experience and you and the other girl asking questions and popping in with every thing from technical to human interest etc and the other guy playing the organiser etc. Considering you probably only rucked mup with htem this morning it worked out pretty nice. Dee sounds like pretty nice bird herself, I always find it trippy that she looks so Italian but sounds so typically British. She made an excellent point about the Brits not really working and training together... the funny thing is that all the Brit open60 sailors (except Sam) were based in Ocean Village when I lived in Southampton (this was back in 2008 - 2010) so it'd have been Malbon, Golding, Dee, etc) and if any weren't there they wouldn't be very far away. If the Brits want to win and get more people in they have to set up a base like the French do at Port la Foret and go out and train together etc.

PRB weighs less than 7 tonnes! That would make a pretty sporty 50 footer much less a 60 footer meant to go around the world. i hope they're not exploring VO70 territory structurally. You have have to reckon he's going to be fast as shit off a shovel and if he finishes he's going to be hard to beat... but then again you could say the same about much of this fleet.

Sad for Guillemot because the first part of the race to the trades are very much the conditions that he and the boat are suited for. You remember the tactical genius move he made at the start of the first JV after he got the boat...

[STYACHT]

Just calling out a spade, a spade or do I have it wrong?

Would you like to guess? I was impressed, being pretty new to SA, I didn't know much about the coverage the guys have done before. Clean was doing a very good job of throwing the right questions at the right time to get answers that help ordinary folk watching understand what is going on. It is an art. Of course he knows the answers to the questions before he asks them. The point is to build a commentary, and to pick the questions to get the flow working, and to get answers at a level that is right for the viewers.

My only complaints about the coverage so far is that Clean needs to be more aware of where his mic is pointing, and Ronnie needs a better camera, one with proper low light capability. Both things to think about for the next time. But if this is the SA way of doing things, I am all for it. It makes a mockery of the corporatised and usually clueless coverage we get from the mainstream.

What he said. Clean may be guilty of lobbing up a few softballs, in the name of banter. Maybe that is lost on non-native English anarchists, true true. But, show me the English language Vendee coverage that was better than this.

[8:07 to New Haven]

Is there an english version of the Vendee twitter feed?

[wkent]

Good job Clean, Ronnie and SA team. Hope you can do something similar for the mini transat next year

[Rail Meat]

Absolutely fantastic job, guys. Clean - you did a great job commentating the start, setting up your co-anchors with the right questions and catering to the wider audience. I was impressed.

Ron - great write ups, great walk throughs. The only suggestion is that next time you make mention of some of the specific equipment used on each boat... the furlers, organizers, clutches, sail makers, winches, electronics / pilots, traveler / mast track systems.

[czo79]

Great coverage!

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the hell Alessandro is doing? I can't see the logic in going so far south, but I don't really know shit.

-Czo

[Laurent]

INFO: Bertrand de Broc is coming back because his boat Votre Nom autour du Monde has a hole in her hull!



IMOCA



Bertrand de Broc à été percuté par un bateau spectateur. Il rentre au port.
Bertrand de Broc was struck by a spectator boat. He returned to the port. (Translated by Bing)

From the vendee globe web site news link, it seems that it was a support boat from his own team...

Listening to the "live" comment from Alain Gautier, it seems that one of the outrigger got caugth with a wooden pile in the harbour, and the boat was drifting towards a motor yacht; one of the RIBs rushed in between the 2 boats to protect the boat from Bertrand de Broc from getting damaged. It must have been pretty hairy, Alain Gautier is saying that the RIB got so much squeezed between the 2 boats that one of the inflatable tube exploded!!!

[Speng]

Oh putain...

[SR CHIEF (RET)]

Alain..., great job today! really good you put everything , sur le table! Easy to follow, Dee was great , my 11 year old twins were good for like 20 minutes, whick means a HUGE success!
\

[steinbrenner]

Great coverage!

Does anyone have any thoughts on what the hell Alessandro is doing? I can't see the logic in going so far south, but I don't really know shit.

-Czo

i was gonna ask the same question, i suppose he's not able to go into wind as much as the rest of the fleet having canting keels?

[Sebyseb]

Or he's seen a Southerly options the others haven't seen. More wind in the South
He knows he can't compete on the same route as the more modern fleet so it makes sense to try other options and try to make a difference.

[40Plus]

Clean & Ronnie, Awesome job guys, well done. Got up damn early to watch the start live here on the West Coast and it was worth it. Clean, as mentioned before you did good job asking the right questions, the questions and answers would keep a wide range viewers interested.

It would have been great had you guys been able get into the technical aspects a little more such as the electronics, Autopilots, Sails, rigging etc. Not sure how forthcoming the skippers and prepateurs would be with the info though even if they had the time to sit down for another interview. Regardless, thanks for a job well done!

[34 South]

Great job, Clean and Ronnie. Clean, this coverage is your best work yet. Bravo! You clearly have a depth of knowledge and your adjusted style is allowing that to come through, and gives the interviewees space to say more themselves.

[Roleur]

Wow. That was nuts. We arrived in LSD on Friday and the tents were packed. Parked the car at 7:30 on Sat morning a full 5.5 hours before the start and 2 hours before the first boat left the dock. As we are walking towards the harbor, I'm thinking the crowds aren't bad, in fact I'm surprised at how few people there are.... Until we get to the channel... Holy shit! There are hundreds of thousands of people already lining every square inch of both sides of channel. Clearly we were very much late. I'm laughing, thinking we came all this way and we can't even see the boats! Eventually we found a third row spot behind some short people and stood in one spot for the next 3.5 hours and it was amazing. Once the boats left the channel we jetted back to the hotel and watched the start live on French TV.

Too bad about Safran. That boat definitely wins the look.

[Trickypig]

Great stuff ... just spent hours going through this thread. Thanks Clean and Ronnie.

[forss]

Safran retires.

At 1745 hrs CET (1645 hrs GMT) on Saturday 10th November, Marc Guillemot called his shore team to inform them that he had hit something and that there had been a loud noise, after which the boat suddenly heeled over. After making the boat safe, the skipper of Safran decided to head back to Les Sables d’Olonne in order to inspect the damage.

Marc Guillemot arrived in the port of Les Sables this morning (Sunday) at 0300hrs local time. His shore team immediately examined the boat and saw that the keel had broken off under the waterline.

As they do not have a spare keel, Safran is unable to set off again in the race.

On Monday morning, 13th November, the monohull will be towed to La Trinité-sur-Mer, where she will be taken out of the water.

Metallurgical tests will be carried out on the keel head in order to determine the causes of the damage.

looks like titanium is not the best choice for keels.

[onimod]

Safran retires.

At 1745 hrs CET (1645 hrs GMT) on Saturday 10th November, Marc Guillemot called his shore team to inform them that he had hit something and that there had been a loud noise, after which the boat suddenly heeled over. After making the boat safe, the skipper of Safran decided to head back to Les Sables d’Olonne in order to inspect the damage.

Marc Guillemot arrived in the port of Les Sables this morning (Sunday) at 0300hrs local time. His shore team immediately examined the boat and saw that the keel had broken off under the waterline.

As they do not have a spare keel, Safran is unable to set off again in the race.

On Monday morning, 13th November, the monohull will be towed to La Trinité-sur-Mer, where she will be taken out of the water.

Metallurgical tests will be carried out on the keel head in order to determine the causes of the damage.

looks like titanium is not the best choice for keels.

I hope we see some pictures and find out what really happened

[onimod]

Gabart (Macif) has definitely got his accelerator pedal pressed hard

[Philippe_Chaplin]

Clean wrote before the start: "Guillemot could bow out early with a rig or structure failure." Bad omen....

[yl75]

So he completely lost the keel ?
Holly shit, that must be so tough to live ...

[Terrorvision]

Clean wrote before the start: "Guillemot could bow out early with a rig or structure failure." Bad omen....

Whilst not wanting to call Clean's skills as a clairvoyant into question, I don't think that hitting something with the result of losing a keel is the same as structural failure.
That said, the end result is the same- one of the favourites is out within 24 hours of the start.

[yl75]

Could it be that the noise were from the keel breaking without even hitting something ?

[rb_stretch]

Could it be that the noise were from the keel breaking without even hitting something ?

Pure speculation, but the report suggests a loud noise more than a violent motion, so possibly the case...

Edit: Re-reading "the noise was quite violent" might have been a translation issue. You would have thought with a keel of normal strength you would definitely feel if you have hit something....

[yl75]

In the last news it says :

Marc Guillemot appelait son équipe à terre pour l’informer d’un choc et d’un bruit, aussitôt suivis d’une gîte brutale.

So it mentions both a schock and a noise, immediately followed by the boat heeling over.

But previous news says "loud noise probably due to a shock"

Let's see the next ones ...

One thing is that Safran is I think both his sponsor and the one having built the keel.

[Rhyddid]

Great job, Clean and Ronnie. Clean, this coverage is your best work yet. Bravo! You clearly have a depth of knowledge and your adjusted style is allowing that to come through, and gives the interviewees space to say more themselves.

+1 Stellar job Guys.....

[Rhyddid]

Marc "I first imagined having lost salmon returning keel then I realized that the whole keel we lost" A twitter 2 mins ago.... (french translated to english via google translate).......... Wow... oh crap!

[onimod]

Marc "I first imagined having lost salmon returning keel then I realized that the whole keel we lost" A twitter 2 mins ago.... (french translated to english via google translate).......... Wow... oh crap!

Also:
"I do not know if we really hit something"
"We explain what really happened, we will not hide anything"

[Elliot7]

Is anybody else amazed at how spread out the fleet is already??? 60nm in less then 24hrs for the main pack...seems alot considering they are all top sailors with top boats, and all had the same info/weather etc.

[Cyrille Hydrogene]

Is anybody else amazed at how spread out the fleet is already??? 60nm in less then 24hrs for the main pack...seems alot considering they are all top sailors with top boats, and all had the same info/weather etc.

That might be explained by the quite hairy and changing conditions during the night. Sam Davies Talks about 45 knots squalls at times. Must have been tricky, to say the least.

I'm really impressed by Gabart. He didn't lose any time to press hard on the loud pedal! I'm surprised to see Dick so far back in just one night.

[Terrorvision]

Marc "I first imagined having lost salmon returning keel then I realized that the whole keel we lost" A twitter 2 mins ago.... (french translated to english via google translate).......... Wow... oh crap!

Also:
"I do not know if we really hit something"
"We explain what really happened, we will not hide anything"

“ There were two successive sounds in the space of a second. The first noise was quite violent,” Guillemot said surrounded by cameras on the pontoon in Les Sables d’Olonne. “I thought I had hit something while bouncing on a wave. I had the feeling that something hit the keel. Almost immediately a more violent noise followed, and the boat began to heel sharply. The boat went from 100% to 22%.”

Interesting to see how this comes out after a proper debrief.

[moody frog]

In the last news it says :

Marc Guillemot appelait son équipe à terre pour l’informer d’un choc et d’un bruit, aussitôt suivis d’une gîte brutale.

So it mentions both a schock and a noise, immediately followed by the boat heeling over.

But previous news says "loud noise probably due to a shock"

Let's see the next ones ...

One thing is that Safran is I think both his sponsor and the one having built the keel.

This is the interesting thing: This is a pretty different keel from any previous one.
Not only has it been built by Safran's subsidiaries and usual subcontractors, it has been fully engineered by the Safran group, on a Verdier design.
http://www.safran-sa...he-new-keel-72/
Talk about a sponsor being twice slapped

I think, though, that this might bring further clues in the ongoing (canting) keel-enginering debate.

Besides Clean's and Ronnie's premonitory quote on Safran, I want to join those congratulating them for their job.
Not only is this the most comprehensive coverage ever (!!) but they have obviously -even for one close follower - grabbed a thorough and surprising understanding of the fleet and skippers.

Brilliant !

[Hastings]

So he completely lost the keel ?
Holly shit, that must be so tough to live ...

But better now than later.

Much better!

[DIMITRIS]

Absolutely gutted about Saffran keel loss....I was hopping that it was not something serious and some how he could rejoin the race! According to Vendee Globe todays live interviews and news he has not lost the whole keel but portion of it....I hope that photos will flow and will show the damage! Given the greater characterics properties of the material compared to steel fins something really serious must have happend....

[yl75]

Interview (in French) :
http://www.sports.fr.../?features3home

He says he is not sure of having hit something, and they will make sure they fully communicate on their analysis as to what happened.

Also says near the Kergelen would have been something else...

[Guillame]

Video on Safran's titanium keel construction :
https://www.facebook...150317652097096

[tekwa]

why exactly was the keel welded? is it holow?

[Laurent]

Interview (in French) :
http://www.sports.fr.../?features3home

He says he is not sure of having hit something, and they will make sure they fully communicate on their analysis as to what happened.

Also says near the Kergelen would have been something else...

Here is my translation of the key notes.

<<
There is only 30 cm left!

At 17:34, I heard two shocks, very close to each other, a quarter of a second apart. I felt the first one was not underneath the hull, but it was very noisy, strong, brutal, on the keel. Just the time to ask myself what is going on, I heard a second noise, much stronger, much more violent. Then the boat started to heel a lot, it was quite dangerous. I had the sheets close by; I immediately let go both the main and the foresail sheets. I did not have time to check the keel from the side of the boat. I was in emergency mode. I furled the foresail, I took a second reef, then a third. The boat was then safe, with forward and mid ballasts full. I saw Jérémie Beyou passing by. He called me, but I was in a rush, I called him fifteen minutes later.
I then checked the boat. I canted the keel on both sides, without any affect on the heeling of the boat. I got concerned. I looked through the "endoscope" (a small hole behind the keel, where the skipper can look through, or even hook up camera to see the keel; it is used for check up, and also to see if you have kelp, ropes, etc... stuck on the keel), but it was getting dark, and I could not see anything. I then tried to look from the outside, but I was not too cocky... It was safer to stay inside.
I turned around and made a slow tack. Arriving here (Les Sables d'Olonne), I saw Bertrand coming out. It was a funny coincidence for two reasons; first of all, he is my cousin; and I am one of his subscribing partners, like many others... I am very happy that he is back in the race. He is going to struggle a bit, to come back in the pack, but he deserves it, and I can only wish for him to finish it.

Did I hit something or not? I don't know. If I hit something, it's just bad luck, the Russian roulette... The other possibility is metal fatigue, design error... If it is a design error, imagine the same thing, with the small gennaker, 35-40 knots wind, no visibility, 100 miles south of the Kerguelen Island... It would not be the same thing.
Once we understand what happened, we will tell everything. We will not sneak out. If it is a design, metal fatigue, or machining issue, you will know it. There might have been a bug in the process, but we will take responsibility, even if it hurts...

This choice of a new keel was made for reliability, not performance. I had full confidence in the boat. We had done between 23,000 and 25,000 miles with it: training sessions before the TJV, the TJV, the transat BtoB, around the British Islands record, and 4,000 to 5,000 miles offshore in nasty conditions in June. I can guarantee you that I had full confidence in the boat.
>>

[MR.CLEAN]

Is anybody else amazed at how spread out the fleet is already??? 60nm in less then 24hrs for the main pack...seems alot considering they are all top sailors with top boats, and all had the same info/weather etc.

That might be explained by the quite hairy and changing conditions during the night. Sam Davies Talks about 45 knots squalls at times. Must have been tricky, to say the least.

I'm really impressed by Gabart. He didn't lose any time to press hard on the loud pedal! I'm surprised to see Dick so far back in just one night.

Carbon copy of 2 years ago when Gabard (with Mich Desj) on the sistership to Macif sailed away from JPD on the same PV3 at the start of the Barcelona.

[Manfred]

Could it be that the noise were from the keel breaking without even hitting something ?

Pure speculation, but the report suggests a loud noise more than a violent motion, so possibly the case...

Edit: Re-reading "the noise was quite violent" might have been a translation issue. You would have thought with a keel of normal strength you would definitely feel if you have hit something....

In my opinion you would not only feel it, but you would break your front teeth (from the sudden and unexpected stop) if you hit something that hard, that it breaks your keel off.

[diggler]

Thanks Laurent!

[polarbear]

Could it be that the noise were from the keel breaking without even hitting something ?

Pure speculation, but the report suggests a loud noise more than a violent motion, so possibly the case...

Edit: Re-reading "the noise was quite violent" might have been a translation issue. You would have thought with a keel of normal strength you would definitely feel if you have hit something....

In my opinion you would not only feel it, but you would break your front teeth (from the sudden and unexpected stop) if you hit something that hard, that it breaks your keel off.

From the interview:"...beaucoup de mer qui tapait pas mal." i.e. "lots of swell that was banging the boat quite a bit". It could be that between burying the bow in a wave and hitting something, you get similar deceleration. They are not sure yet whether he hit something. But my money would be on structural failure (but like most of us here, I don't really know shit).

[Keith]

Thank you Laurent

[Carboninit]

Why was Titanium used for the keel when most of the fleet are using Weldox keels and are still racing? Titanium? cross that off my shopping list. Laurent who decided Titanium?

[moody frog]

Why was Titanium used for the keel when most of the fleet are using Weldox keels and are still racing? Titanium? cross that off my shopping list. Laurent who decided Titanium?

Safran did !
This is what they use in Aircrafts landing-gear and had some stock available.

[fogmachine]

The video Guillame posted (merci!) shows some of the keel build process - it looks like the halves were pressed from single large billets then welded in something like an autoclave.

Typically these failures are due to new gear that hasn't been properly harshed on before the race, but ss Guillemot said at the press conference:

The keel had done between 23,000 and 25,00 miles. We trained with it before the last Transat Jacques Vabre in 2011, we did the B2B, went around the British Isles, and then four or five thousand miles in conditions which were not always easy. So, given that all it had been through, I left with confidence and no competitor would consider leaving without a lot of confidence in your keel.

[DIMITRIS]

Why was Titanium used for the keel when most of the fleet are using Weldox keels and are still racing? Titanium? cross that off my shopping list. Laurent who decided Titanium?

Safran did !
This is what they use in Aircrafts landing-gear and had some stock available.

Because it is weights much less than steel and because it has greater material properties, higher yield strength, beter behavour in fatigue etc.....An exactly identical boat as Safran but with steel fin would have not the same center of gravity (CoG). Safran's would be CoG would be lower than the identical's with the steel fin.

[yl75]

Why was Titanium used for the keel when most of the fleet are using Weldox keels and are still racing? Titanium? cross that off my shopping list. Laurent who decided Titanium?

What is amazing is that Guillemot says in his interview that they made this choice for reliability reasons and not performances.
And it was also one of their main "communication item" about the boat, talk about a fuck up ...

[Sebyseb]

Is anybody else amazed at how spread out the fleet is already??? 60nm in less then 24hrs for the main pack...seems alot considering they are all top sailors with top boats, and all had the same info/weather etc.

That might be explained by the quite hairy and changing conditions during the night. Sam Davies Talks about 45 knots squalls at times. Must have been tricky, to say the least.

I'm really impressed by Gabart. He didn't lose any time to press hard on the loud pedal! I'm surprised to see Dick so far back in just one night.

Carbon copy of 2 years ago when Gabard (with Mich Desj) on the sistership to Macif sailed away from JPD on the same PV3 at the start of the Barcelona.

Indeed double-handed with Mich', but young Gabart solo tearing the bay of Biscay with Armel Le Chacal and Vincent le Terrible breathing on his neck is a very different thing. Chapeau bas!

Those three will push each other until something breaks...

Looked like Le Cam was holding his own despite the old boat but he can't keep up the speed of the other guys. Shame.

[Tom O'Keefe]

Macif, Hugo Boss and one other have all turned around and are heading back. What happened?

[Polar_William]

Too quick data handling. I's now fixed.

[LeoV]

Had the same feeling, there was some bad info on the tracker, somebody was bad at importing an excel file into the tracker

And Alesandro made the rooky mistake in the biscay

[Carboninit]

Why was Titanium used for the keel when most of the fleet are using Weldox keels and are still racing? Titanium? cross that off my shopping list. Laurent who decided Titanium?

Safran did !
This is what they use in Aircrafts landing-gear and had some stock available.

Because it is weights much less than steel and because it has greater material properties, higher yield strength, beter behavour in fatigue etc.....An exactly identical boat as Safran but with steel fin would have not the same center of gravity (CoG). Safran's would be CoG would be lower than the identical's with the steel fin.

Well COG has put this fella out of the race which is piss poor when it matters .How many of the fleet have gone for titanium if its a wonderful material for keels. How many keel blades have actualy broken in Imoca 60? Its the top where the pin or ram is connected goes and where the bulb is bolted on by four bolts.Imoca should rule no exotic materials in the keel and use what works for the fleet, Weldox. Back to the racing ,good to see Macif stretching its legs.

[Pierre S]

If it is material failure, Safran have egg all over their face - really embarassing. OTOH if Marc did hit something, then I suppose it will be just put down to bad luck.

Congratulations to SA for the excellent coverage of the race - best coverage I've seen anywhere. There's so much material here that you could spend days just going through it all.

[HASYB]

A lot of traffic showing on the AIS map, guess not much sleep tonight for the fleet also with the 35 knot winds.

http://www.marinetraffic.com/ais/

Anybody knows why DCNS 1000 is following the fleet? In the vicinity of Initiatives-Coeur.

[Ozimandias]

Why is the AIS track map an hour or so ahead of the "official" tracker?

[diggler]

How many of the fleet have gone for titanium if its a wonderful material for keels.

This is argument is not meaningful. Cost is by far the main factor in the dearth of titanium keels, plain and simple.

[DIMITRIS]

How many of the fleet have gone for titanium if its a wonderful material for keels.

This is argument is not meaningful. Cost is by far the main factor in the dearth of titanium keels, plain and simple.

+1

Carbonnit all I can say is wait for the photos and the verdict from the experts when the boat is lifted and assessed! It is a same that is out of the race because we will not be able to see haw it will performed compared to less cutting edge designs. Alex Thomson' s opininion was that Safran was the most advanced design in the class with her titanium keel, new carbon mast with milled carbon track and articulating spreaders and actually on the very early stage of the race it was the leading boat... it really a same!

[popo]

if DCNS 1000 is following the fleet, it's because they are making a movie call "le solitaire" with french actor François Cluzet. It's a fiction about a solo vendee globe sailor.
If I understood well what I catched on TV, they were at the start to record.

BTW, don't be surprised if François Gabart is pedal to the metal, he his Mich Dejoyeaux's heritage.

[Cyrille Hydrogene]

if DCNS 1000 is following the fleet, it's because they are making a movie call "le solitaire" with french actor François Cluzet. It's a fiction about a solo vendee globe sailor.
If I understood well what I catched on TV, they were at the start to record.

BTW, don't be surprised if François Gabart is pedal to the metal, he his Mich Dejoyeaux's heritage.

And the guy driving DCNS for the movie is Yann Riou, Groupama's mediaman during the last Volvo !

They are probably sailing alongside Initiatives Coeur for some close racing shots, as it's the only sponsor (it's a charity) that's going to be shown in the movie, alongside DCNS of course, who lent their boat for the special coverage...

[sclero]

Any one know more about the sails they take and what angles and windspeeds the different sails are for?

[BobJ]

[Delta Dog]

Is anybody else amazed at how spread out the fleet is already??? 60nm in less then 24hrs for the main pack...seems alot considering they are all top sailors with top boats, and all had the same info/weather etc.

Yes, quite surprised to look this morning and see the size of the gap. Are the boats this different or were some just more agressive and better sailed on what sounds like a very tricky first night.

[KiwiJoker]

Why was Titanium used for the keel when most of the fleet are using Weldox keels and are still racing? Titanium? cross that off my shopping list. Laurent who decided Titanium?

Safran did !
This is what they use in Aircrafts landing-gear and had some stock available.

Because it is weights much less than steel and because it has greater material properties, higher yield strength, beter behavour in fatigue etc.....An exactly identical boat as Safran but with steel fin would have not the same center of gravity (CoG). Safran's would be CoG would be lower than the identical's with the steel fin.

Thanks for your explanation.

I was mesmerized by Safran's behaviour in a seaway. Beautiful easy motion. Maintained speed even when she pitched slightly into bigger seas. She was being sailed well but I'm sure the lower CG had something to do with it

An enormous pity that Marc was knocked out of competition.

[moody frog]

The video Guillame posted (merci!) shows some of the keel build process - it looks like the halves were pressed from single large billets then welded in something like an autoclave.

Typically these failures are due to new gear that hasn't been properly harshed on before the race, but ss Guillemot said at the press conference:

The keel had done between 23,000 and 25,00 miles. We trained with it before the last Transat Jacques Vabre in 2011, we did the B2B, went around the British Isles, and then four or five thousand miles in conditions which were not always easy. So, given that all it had been through, I left with confidence and no competitor would consider leaving without a lot of confidence in your keel.

What looks as an autoclave is the instrumented vacuum-chamber where they proceed with electron-beam-welding of the titanium parts.
(titanium does not go well with conventional welds)

[moody frog]

if DCNS 1000 is following the fleet, it's because they are making a movie call "le solitaire" with french actor François Cluzet. It's a fiction about a solo vendee globe sailor.
If I understood well what I catched on TV, they were at the start to record.

BTW, don't be surprised if François Gabart is pedal to the metal, he his Mich Dejoyeaux's heritage.

And the guy driving DCNS for the movie is Yann Riou, Groupama's mediaman during the last Volvo !

They are probably sailing alongside Initiatives Coeur for some close racing shots, as it's the only sponsor (it's a charity) that's going to be shown in the movie, alongside DCNS of course, who lent their boat for the special coverage...

Actually DCNS sold the boat to the movie-producer and then paid a hefty sum (1 million IIRW) to the same producer for the boat to stay in their own livery.

The fun thing, which Clean may have watched, is that they recorded the boat's winning arrival in Les Sables on Wednesday last.

http://www.ouest-fra...-abd_filDMA.Htm

[Cyrille Hydrogene]

Is Gutek having a problem? He is sailing at 4.9 knots in the last report. Hope it's nothing serious.

[Lima November]

Could be just the wind dying. There is some talk since the start about the wind becoming lighter from the north and the need to pass Finisterre quickly in order not to be caught in the light winds. Tomorrow / wednesday the wind will pick up again with a front arriving from the west (http://www.cotweb.com/isobares.htm) so Gutek may be going west to pick up this wind soonest. Note that Alessandro di Benedetto is moving slowly as well.

[Another day on the edge]

Could it be that the noise were from the keel breaking without even hitting something ?

Pure speculation, but the report suggests a loud noise more than a violent motion, so possibly the case...

Edit: Re-reading "the noise was quite violent" might have been a translation issue. You would have thought with a keel of normal strength you would definitely feel if you have hit something....

In my opinion you would not only feel it, but you would break your front teeth (from the sudden and unexpected stop) if you hit something that hard, that it breaks your keel off.

Absolutely, the notion that you're not sure if you've hit something that's knocked the keel off is plain ridiculous -you would be peeling yourself off the bulkhead. Structural failure due to fatigue.

[hump101]

Could it be that the noise were from the keel breaking without even hitting something ?

Pure speculation, but the report suggests a loud noise more than a violent motion, so possibly the case...

Edit: Re-reading "the noise was quite violent" might have been a translation issue. You would have thought with a keel of normal strength you would definitely feel if you have hit something....

In my opinion you would not only feel it, but you would break your front teeth (from the sudden and unexpected stop) if you hit something that hard, that it breaks your keel off.

Absolutely, the notion that you're not sure if you've hit something that's knocked the keel off is plain ridiculous -you would be peeling yourself off the bulkhead. Structural failure due to fatigue.

It depend on how you hit it. If he came down on to the object rather than forwards into it then the forward motion is not arrested to the same extent and the motion feels like a slam. We once landed on a basking shark coming off a wave with my parents boat. The impact split a joint on one hull, but if we hadn't actually seen the shark (which seemed unharmed) we would not have known we'd hit it, as from inside it felt like a bad slam.

[Carboninit]

The next weather system is going to split the fleet. Macif staying left and it looks like the rest are going right . Now it's getting good. Who will be first to the Canaries? Macif ? Brilliant.

[Left Hook]

Gut feeling is that those who went right earlier (PRB, Virbac & Banque Pop.) are going to make out better with getting into the new breeze sooner while those in the East are going to spend more time mired in light airs off of gibraltar before getting into the new breeze which will be lighter the farther south they are. PRB, BP & Virbac to be the new top 3 in 24 hours time.


One comment re: boats & speed so far is that it seems like the light and stiff VPLP designs have shown their legs in the the running conditions they've seen since leaving the bay. Unsurprising.Of course this could be because they're being sailed by some of the fastest skippers in the bunch. Good on Alex for keeping up with the big boys and their new toys!! Just waiting for them to break so he can go steaming by.

[Laurent]

Could it be that the noise were from the keel breaking without even hitting something ?

Pure speculation, but the report suggests a loud noise more than a violent motion, so possibly the case...

Edit: Re-reading "the noise was quite violent" might have been a translation issue. You would have thought with a keel of normal strength you would definitely feel if you have hit something....

In my opinion you would not only feel it, but you would break your front teeth (from the sudden and unexpected stop) if you hit something that hard, that it breaks your keel off.

Absolutely, the notion that you're not sure if you've hit something that's knocked the keel off is plain ridiculous -you would be peeling yourself off the bulkhead. Structural failure due to fatigue.

It depend on how you hit it. If he came down on to the object rather than forwards into it then the forward motion is not arrested to the same extent and the motion feels like a slam. We once landed on a basking shark coming off a wave with my parents boat. The impact split a joint on one hull, but if we hadn't actually seen the shark (which seemed unharmed) we would not have known we'd hit it, as from inside it felt like a bad slam.

Marc Guillemot did report that the speed went from 100% to 22% in that event...

[bisam]

Breaking from Vacations:
Group Bel hit by a fishing boat, outrigger damaged, bowsprit broken, deck lifting along 2m, making for Portugal at 9kts. Kito OK.

[popo]

definitively one of the most unlukiest sailor there is.

a quote from Kito dated from yesterday : "just a few more hours and I will beat my record competing in the Vendee Globe"

[Summerwind]

Wow. Kito does not have any luck with his Vendee. Last time the mast, now a fishing boat.

[Carboninit]

Hold on a minute fishing boats doing 2 knots with there nets down do not go into yachts .Yachts go into fishing boats. I wonder what the crew on the fishing boat said . That yacht is going to change course isn't it £$%$%%^&*&*(()()