64 replies to this topic

[Silverbullet]

Is anyone else looking forward to March sailing on central Puget Sound?

First up, Blakely Rock...get your Daffodils.

60 boats registered so far.
Tides are favorable.
Forecast looks good.

Friday night Derek Campbell will kick off the series with a chalk talk and everyone is invited. Dinner will be catered by Buca di Beppo for a fee of about $10 and the bar will be open. Talk starts at 7pm so arrive early!

There's a whole lotta boats on the registration list - how many will make it out? I see a new J145 - will the new Farr 30 be out?

Who's coming that has yet to register?
Will there be a Left Coast Dart sighting?

[Asymptote]

77 boats for Toliva and just 60 so far for Center Sound with two days to go?

Only one Melgi 24? No SJ24s? 1 T-bird? What's up with that?

I hope the web site is humming.

This series is going to be good...lets get out there people!

[bsainsbury]

Did you guys hear that we are not necessarily doing Blakely Rock first? I heard the decision to do each race will be made the morning of.
Or is it a rumor by a competitor trying to mess with me?

[Green Card]

Did you guys hear that we are not necessarily doing Blakely Rock first? I heard the decision to do each race will be made the morning of.
Or is it a rumor by a competitor trying to mess with me?

It's a rumor. A good idea, but a rumor. They are going with reverse starts though which is long overdue.

I wonder if the lack of entries is in part due to the lack of excitement and advertising for this event? I mean the race is two days away and a thread is just starting...

[Asymptote]

CYC has been in a bit of a re-invention mode. I know they are trying to promote more aggressively, but perhaps a little late start this year.

Certain other clubs have been considerably more industrious in getting their race promotions out and perhaps more creative about events. And it shows. CYCs intention and plan is to become much more open and inviting to all comers.

What may have mis-interpreted is that, in a northerly, there is an alternate course that goes north to Carkeek park then to the rock...thus "we don't go to Blakely Rock first".

See you out on the water.

[Silverbullet]

I wonder if the lack of entries is in part due to the lack of excitement and advertising for this event? I mean the race is two days away and a thread is just starting...

Exactly what I was wondering. I kept looking for a thread on CSS this week and scratching my head. We already have threads for Swiftsure, WIRW, and Van Isle 2013 ffs. You would think that a YC that is looking to bolster participation, membership, and revenue would've done a little "free marketing" a week or so ago?!

[dogger]

Did you guys hear that we are not necessarily doing Blakely Rock first? I heard the decision to do each race will be made the morning of.
Or is it a rumor by a competitor trying to mess with me?

It's a rumor. A good idea, but a rumor. They are going with reverse starts though which is long overdue.

I wonder if the lack of entries is in part due to the lack of excitement and advertising for this event? I mean the race is two days away and a thread is just starting...

I really like reverse starts and the idea of course selection on race day, this makes for better sailing. CSS series needs more forward thinking and promotion to bolster participation.

[n00b]

It may have something to do with the fact that it's been pretty slow getting the web site registration going.

[RocNoggin]

Is anyone else looking forward to March sailing on central Puget Sound?

Hell yes! I know I sure am!

[dogger]

Will the Dart and her new owners be out Saturday?

[Asymptote]

Bump, just for the heck of it.

See a few of you out there tomorrow.

[Silverbullet]

67 so far. Class breaks are up.

PZZ135-030200-
PUGET SOUND AND HOOD CANAL-
852 AM PST FRI MAR 2 2012

...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT FROM NOON PST TODAY THROUGH SATURDAY AFTERNOON...

TODAY...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT...RISING TO 15 TO 25 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 1 TO 4 FT. RAIN.

TONIGHT...S WIND 15 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT. RAIN.

SAT...SW WIND 20 TO 30 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 5 FT. A CHANCE OF RAIN...MAINLY IN THE MORNING. SAT NIGHT...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 3 FT OR LESS.

[Ishtarsdog]

How 'bout those big classes? Looks like the performance 30 fleet is in for a battle. Lots of classes with 10+ boats, except for the j-105s, who are apparently content to race amongst themselves. Rating spread in our class (13 boats) is 69-87, with Dos being the slow boat in the fleet. They'll be chuckling about that as they go planing off past the displacement boats on the run north.

Let it blow, let it snow. Time to get the spring season started!

[dogger]

Sachem vs Banshee in P2, any bets?

[rawthul]

How 'bout those big classes? Looks like the performance 30 fleet is in for a battle. Lots of classes with 10+ boats, except for the j-105s, who are apparently content to race amongst themselves. Rating spread in our class (13 boats) is 69-87, with Dos being the slow boat in the fleet. They'll be chuckling about that as they go planing off past the displacement boats on the run north.

Let it blow, let it snow. Time to get the spring season started!

Chuckling... If they stay upright. Go the swim team.

[Silverbullet]

How 'bout those big classes? Looks like the performance 30 fleet is in for a battle. Lots of classes with 10+ boats, except for the j-105s, who are apparently content to race amongst themselves. Rating spread in our class (13 boats) is 69-87, with Dos being the slow boat in the fleet. They'll be chuckling about that as they go planing off past the displacement boats on the run north.

Let it blow, let it snow. Time to get the spring season started!

Chuckling... If they stay upright. Go the swim team.

And thanks to the reverse start, we will all get to watch the show!

[nwsailboat]

any results?....<patiently waiting>

[nwsailboat]

asked and answered...thanks!

[dogger]

Way to go Marty, two years in a row!

[Snapper]

Way to go Marty, two years in a row!

That would be awesome, but I think someone at CYC needs to go over the finish times and compare with inputted elapsed and corrected times. Sachem just beat us (Different Drummer) over the line. Elapsed times on results reflect that. However, Sachem started five minutes behind so should have an elapsed time just over five minutes quicker than us - correct? Scanning over the other elapsed times, methinks there is a problem.

[xyzzy]

That would be awesome, but I think someone at CYC needs to go over the finish times and compare with inputted elapsed and corrected times. Sachem just beat us (Different Drummer) over the line. Elapsed times on results reflect that. However, Sachem started five minutes behind so should have an elapsed time just over five minutes quicker than us - correct? Scanning over the other elapsed times, methinks there is a problem.

I think you're right. They have the car with 6 minutes less elapsed time than us and they started 10 minutes after we did. So that would have them finishing 4 minutes after us. But they were finishing getting their sails down when we crossed the line if I remember correctly. Maybe the elapsed times were based on everyone starting at the same time? I could believe the car finished 6 minutes in front of us, which would mean their elapsed would be 16 minutes less, not 6 minutes less.

The overall results list 7 start times, but their were 9 classes. Maybe that's part of the problem?

[Snapper]

That would be awesome, but I think someone at CYC needs to go over the finish times and compare with inputted elapsed and corrected times. Sachem just beat us (Different Drummer) over the line. Elapsed times on results reflect that. However, Sachem started five minutes behind so should have an elapsed time just over five minutes quicker than us - correct? Scanning over the other elapsed times, methinks there is a problem.

I think you're right. They have the car with 6 minutes less elapsed time than us and they started 10 minutes after we did. So that would have them finishing 4 minutes after us. But they were finishing getting their sails down when we crossed the line if I remember correctly. Maybe the elapsed times were based on everyone starting at the same time? I could believe the car finished 6 minutes in front of us, which would mean their elapsed would be 16 minutes less, not 6 minutes less.

The overall results list 7 start times, but their were 9 classes. Maybe that's part of the problem?

Anyone from CYC reading this? I looked over the overall's again and it's pretty obvious that the start times have not been factored in correctly. Class positions will remain the same, overall with change significantly.

[Ishtarsdog]

I emailed Bill that there is grumbling in the forums. He says a few folks have mentioned it and that they are looking into it. Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

[Snapper]

I emailed Bill that there is grumbling in the forums. He says a few folks have mentioned it and that they are looking into it. Will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.

I'm pretty sure you took it overall with us potentially top five so it will be interesting to see the corrected results. Now, if only we had not screwed up the Asail set right before the 'leeward' mark and rolled you guys! Nice job and congrats.

[Ishtarsdog]

That was quite a moment. Looked like you had us dead to rights, we had our pants down (jib half up, A-sail half down) when the puff from God came, and we were able to scramble the a-sail back up. Crazy race. Fun though!

[Snapper]

That was quite a moment. Looked like you had us dead to rights, we had our pants down (jib half up, A-sail half down) when the puff from God came, and we were able to scramble the a-sail back up. Crazy race. Fun though!

We should have left the headsail up. The tack line was not attached, which dragged us back enough for you to get away. Game on next week!

As for everyone else's take on the race... *sound of crickets*

[Mach 5]

That was quite a moment. Looked like you had us dead to rights, we had our pants down (jib half up, A-sail half down) when the puff from God came, and we were able to scramble the a-sail back up. Crazy race. Fun though!

We should have left the headsail up. The tack line was not attached, which dragged us back enough for you to get away. Game on next week!

As for everyone else's take on the race... *sound of crickets*

.... We had fun!

[dogger]

CYC RC is aware of the error and are fixing it as we speak.

[dogger]

Fixed!

http://www.cycseattl...nd-registrants/

[Snapper]

Fixed!

http://www.cycseattl...nd-registrants/

Not quite - multi's don't get scored with the mono's!

[dogger]

Fixed!

http://www.cycseattl...nd-registrants/

Not quite - multi's don't get scored with the mono's!

I've always found it disappointing to win overall only to find a pickle fork scored in the first position...

[n00b]

I liked it better when the TBird was winning it again 2nd year in a row.


But the current results look a bit better.

[Vincent DePillis]

Not quite - multi's don't get scored with the mono's!
[/quote]
I've always found it disappointing to win overall only to find a pickle fork scored in the first position...
[/quote]

As a pickle forker, I would like to be scored with the monos, and I don't think it would be impossibly unfair. We sail above our rating in heavy air, below our rating in light air. Like a light sports boat, we can light it up if we can get on a plane, and other times we are ordinary. We really might be more similar to the M32, than the M32 is to the Tbird.

Vince DePillis

[dangerzone777]

[I've always found it disappointing to win overall only to find a pickle fork scored in the first position...
[/quote]

As a pickle forker, I would like to be scored with the monos, and I don't think it would be impossibly unfair. We sail above our rating in heavy air, below our rating in light air. Like a light sports boat, we can light it up if we can get on a plane, and other times we are ordinary. We really might be more similar to the M32, than the M32 is to the Tbird.

Vince DePillis
[/quote]

Amen to that. As a long time sailer and a handicapper for a number of years the new sports boats create as much of a problem handicapping as the multi's/

[Snapper]

VDP and D777 - CSS is scored using PHRF ratings. You guys police your own handicaps and therefore should not be scored. Trying to compare multi's to sport boats is a bit of a stretch as you know that multi's upwind performance in breeze far exceeds a sport boat. I love multi's, but you don't get to play with the mono's using your own ratings! Just a quick search finds the F28R being rated at 15 not the 40 scored (http://www.nemasail....tings060106.PDF)

Whomever at CYC who is scoring this needs to fix it (again)

[Vincent DePillis]

"VDP and D777 - CSS is scored using PHRF ratings. You guys police your own handicaps and therefore should not be scored."

This seems to me a very good point. Would you be more willing to consider it if the handicapping were Unified? i.e. If the handicappers were charged with rating the multis fairly againstthe monos? (as much as possible...)

"Trying to compare multi's to sport boats is a bit of a stretch as you know that multi's upwind performance in breeze far exceeds a sport boat."

True enough-- but the Melges 32 will kill us up and down in the light.air.

No doubt that it is difficult to rate dissimilar boats-- I suppose that a "fair rating" system with widely dissimilar boats leads you to a system where the weather determines who wins, not the relative sailing skill. This is clearly a downside. However, I think it is already a significant part of the game. Look at Martha winning Round the county -- it was a heavy air reach, which perfectly played to her strength. The upside of a unified rating system (at least in theory) would be to encourage participation of the multi fleet in CYC's distance races.

It's a small sport, getting smaller, and it seems to me that inclusiveness and informality is the wave of the future-- at least in sailing backwaters like Seattle. Sloop Tavern is leading the way. . .

[Moclips]

[quote name='Snapper' timestamp='1331048995' post='3614006']
VDP and D777 - CSS is scored using PHRF ratings. You guys police your own handicaps and therefore should not be scored. Trying to compare multi's to sport boats is a bit of a stretch as you know that multi's upwind performance in breeze far exceeds a sport boat. I love multi's, but you don't get to play with the mono's using your own ratings! Just a quick search finds the F28R being rated at 15 not the 40 scored (http://www.nemasail....tings060106.PDF)

Whomever at CYC who is scoring this needs to fix it (again)

I've been seeing a number of scoring errors lately. I'm not sure if they're getting fixed in the final scorings or not. The last race I participated in was at Toliva (fun Race) but the scoring had at least two very visible handicap errors and at least one of the top boats not even shown in the overall series scores. I'm thinking that there is such a desire/demand to get scores posted immediately after the last boat finishes and there is such pressure on the Race Committees to do this that these mistakes are bound to happen. Let's take just a little more time and get it right.

Moe

[alymatt]

Kotuku wins again - almost enough evidence to get his rating changed:o



All seriousness, congrats!

CdM

[Ishtarsdog]

Ha! Not to minimize our tactical brilliance--Al is awesome if you haven't sailed with him--but this one was more about luck than boat speed. Drummer had boat speed on us all day, and a better driver to boot. We countered this the only way we could. Divine intervention.

[alymatt]

Ha! Not to minimize our tactical brilliance--Al is awesome if you haven't sailed with him--but this one was more about luck than boat speed. Drummer had boat speed on us all day, and a better driver to boot. We countered this the only way we could. Divine intervention.

ok - change his rating too!


I do like seeing boats I know doing well though, so well done and good luck crossing the big pond this year!



CdM

[PDG]

Bump for Scatchet Head...and hopefully fewer restarts!

[RocNoggin]

Bump for Scatchet Head...and hopefully fewer restarts!

no shit. we have breeze in the forecast again but hopefully this time it will actually blow during the race and not just after.

[RocNoggin]

"VDP and D777 - CSS is scored using PHRF ratings. You guys police your own handicaps and therefore should not be scored."

This seems to me a very good point. Would you be more willing to consider it if the handicapping were Unified? i.e. If the handicappers were charged with rating the multis fairly againstthe monos? (as much as possible...)

"Trying to compare multi's to sport boats is a bit of a stretch as you know that multi's upwind performance in breeze far exceeds a sport boat."

True enough-- but the Melges 32 will kill us up and down in the light.air.

No doubt that it is difficult to rate dissimilar boats-- I suppose that a "fair rating" system with widely dissimilar boats leads you to a system where the weather determines who wins, not the relative sailing skill. This is clearly a downside. However, I think it is already a significant part of the game. Look at Martha winning Round the county -- it was a heavy air reach, which perfectly played to her strength. The upside of a unified rating system (at least in theory) would be to encourage participation of the multi fleet in CYC's distance races.

It's a small sport, getting smaller, and it seems to me that inclusiveness and informality is the wave of the future-- at least in sailing backwaters like Seattle. Sloop Tavern is leading the way. . .

any chance we are going to get more multihulls out for Scatchet Head? are you going to be out again? hope so, I would love to see more "pickle forks" getting out!

[RocNoggin]

[/quote]
I've always found it disappointing to win overall only to find a pickle fork scored in the first position...
[/quote]
I guess if someone else was actually scored in the first position you didn't really win overall...

[RocNoggin]

VDP and D777 - CSS is scored using PHRF ratings. You guys police your own handicaps and therefore should not be scored. Trying to compare multi's to sport boats is a bit of a stretch as you know that multi's upwind performance in breeze far exceeds a sport boat. I love multi's, but you don't get to play with the mono's using your own ratings! Just a quick search finds the F28R being rated at 15 not the 40 scored (http://www.nemasail....tings060106.PDF)

Whomever at CYC who is scoring this needs to fix it (again)

why do the multis police their own handicaps? why doesn't PHRF-NW set them like they do for the mono's? what would it take to change this?

there is another thread going about the whole multi vs mono rating difficulties. http://forums.sailin...howtopic=132444
a lot of different ideas there about what to do but no easy solution.

[PHRF Whipping Boy3]

Current NOAA forecast, for those who pay attention to such things.

PZZ135-100130-
PUGET SOUND AND HOOD CANAL-
900 AM PST FRI MAR 9 2012

...SMALL CRAFT ADVISORY IN EFFECT...

TODAY...S WIND 15 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT. RAIN LIKELY THIS AFTERNOON.

TONIGHT...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT. RAIN AT TIMES EARLY...CHANCE OF SHOWERS AFTER MIDNIGHT.

SAT...S WIND 10 TO 20 KT BECOMING SE 20 TO 30 KT IN THE AFTERNOON. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT BUILDING TO 3 TO 5 FT IN THE AFTERNOON. A CHANCE OF SHOWERS.

SAT NIGHT AND SUN...S WIND 15 TO 25 KT. WIND WAVES 2 TO 4 FT.

SUN NIGHT...SE WIND 10 TO 20 KT. WIND WAVES 1 TO 3 FT.

MON AND MON NIGHT...S WIND 20 TO 30 KT. WIND WAVES 3 TO 5 FT. TUE...SE WIND 5 TO 15 KT. WIND WAVES 1 OR 2 FT.

[Sudoku]

For pre-race activities, see http://www.cycseattle.org/

Bar open tonight. Weather & Tactics 6:30 pm.
Tomorrow: Breakfast 7-8 am

[tendegreealex]

Great day on the water again!
Thanks to the Muffin crew! It is always a fun time.
Good friends, great breeze, and awesome food.
Can't wait for the last one.

[chillwales]

Results are out. Congratulations are in order again for Kotuku in class 3. You guys sailed one hell of an upwind leg......perfect conditions for you.

[Ishtarsdog]

Thanks! We had a good time. Lots to see on the race course. Watching Sachem go upwind was a thing of beauty. Watching the two largest kits on the course vaporize in front of us was a crying shame. (I think our bowman actually shed a tear. He had a personal relationship with one of those kites.) Lost our tacking duel with Elusive at the end, they sailed a great race. But the ballsy call was the one Rubicon made. When the guys on Bravo Zulu told me Rubicon finished ahead of them, I knew we were toast. Great race again...

[Bcam]

Thanks! We had a good time. Lots to see on the race course. Watching Sachem go upwind was a thing of beauty. Watching the two largest kits on the course vaporize in front of us was a crying shame. (I think our bowman actually shed a tear. He had a personal relationship with one of those kites.) Lost our tacking duel with Elusive at the end, they sailed a great race. But the ballsy call was the one Rubicon made. When the guys on Bravo Zulu told me Rubicon finished ahead of them, I knew we were toast. Great race again...

If we had time to vote, the Flash crew might have opted to leave all those pieces for anyone who might need a kite (or the fabric to make one!).

It's also the last time I'll make a joke at breakfast to the Wasabi guys about the wind strength we might see. They were launched!

[dogger]

I guess if someone else was actually scored in the first position you didn't really win overall...
[/quote]


I guess you're right, the fact there are only a couple of multihulls that enter CSS and they almost always win overall means they are just that much better than the rest of us.

I think not.

[janpix]

Kotuku in action!!

Click here for more pictures from the Scatchet Head Race -- http://janpix.smugmu...AlbumKey=gbtWT2
 Kotuku small.jpg   218.88K   27 downloads

[Mach 5]

Great day on the water again!
Thanks to the Muffin crew! It is always a fun time.
Good friends, great breeze, and awesome food.
Can't wait for the last one.

Indeed!! New tiller and Mainsheet system.. Bring on Tree- Tree- Point!

..Now, what to cook..... Hmmn..Anyone feel like STEAK?!?!?

[Lat21]

You got some really nice pix. Thanks Jan.

Click here for more pictures from the Scatchet Head Race -- http://janpix.smugmu...AlbumKey=gbtWT2

[RocNoggin]

Thanks! We had a good time. Lots to see on the race course. Watching Sachem go upwind was a thing of beauty. Watching the two largest kits on the course vaporize in front of us was a crying shame. (I think our bowman actually shed a tear. He had a personal relationship with one of those kites.) Lost our tacking duel with Elusive at the end, they sailed a great race. But the ballsy call was the one Rubicon made. When the guys on Bravo Zulu told me Rubicon finished ahead of them, I knew we were toast. Great race again...

congrats to Rubicon for a well sailed race and the overall win. what was their "ballsy" call?

does anyone know what Blue Martini did to get DSQ'd?

how much time did Banshee spend sailing upwind to get back to the leeward mark after sailing past it? that didn't help their overall position any and they still did really well!

what a freakin' nice day for a race. glad everyone had fun!

[Silverbullet]

Thanks! We had a good time. Lots to see on the race course. Watching Sachem go upwind was a thing of beauty. Watching the two largest kits on the course vaporize in front of us was a crying shame. (I think our bowman actually shed a tear. He had a personal relationship with one of those kites.) Lost our tacking duel with Elusive at the end, they sailed a great race. But the ballsy call was the one Rubicon made. When the guys on Bravo Zulu told me Rubicon finished ahead of them, I knew we were toast. Great race again...

congrats to Rubicon for a well sailed race and the overall win. what was their "ballsy" call?

does anyone know what Blue Martini did to get DSQ'd?

how much time did Banshee spend sailing upwind to get back to the leeward mark after sailing past it? that didn't help their overall position any and they still did really well!

what a freakin' nice day for a race. glad everyone had fun!

Answers to your questions and more.

[RocNoggin]

Thanks! We had a good time. Lots to see on the race course. Watching Sachem go upwind was a thing of beauty. Watching the two largest kits on the course vaporize in front of us was a crying shame. (I think our bowman actually shed a tear. He had a personal relationship with one of those kites.) Lost our tacking duel with Elusive at the end, they sailed a great race. But the ballsy call was the one Rubicon made. When the guys on Bravo Zulu told me Rubicon finished ahead of them, I knew we were toast. Great race again...

congrats to Rubicon for a well sailed race and the overall win. what was their "ballsy" call?

does anyone know what Blue Martini did to get DSQ'd?

how much time did Banshee spend sailing upwind to get back to the leeward mark after sailing past it? that didn't help their overall position any and they still did really well!

what a freakin' nice day for a race. glad everyone had fun!

Answers to your questions and more.

thanks SB! nice job to whomever wrote up the race report.

[Quattro]

So can anyone tell us how Wasabi ended up on the beach at Three Tree?
I am curious, but did not want to press the crew for answers at the YC.

We also saw Eye Candy motorsailing back, tough day for both crews

Quattro

[nwsoling]

They went in too close on the shallow patch - kite up at full speed. Sails spun them up to the heading in the photos. Operator error

[jim lee]

What kind of boat is 995481?

-jim lee

[Locus]

We also passed the Farr 30 with only Jib up returning upwind.

Looks like they finished. In the photos I saw they had a main at the rounding. Any word on that.

Wild day. Saw and participated in a number of round ups

[xyzzy]

We also passed the Farr 30 with only Jib up returning upwind.

Looks like they finished. In the photos I saw they had a main at the rounding. Any word on that.

Wild day. Saw and participated in a number of round ups

It looked like their halyard broke and then they took their main down.

Karma also lost their backstay and then was dismasted on the downwind leg.

[BCR]

They went in too close on the shallow patch - kite up at full speed. Sails spun them up to the heading in the photos. Operator error

Slight correction, we were in the middle of our takedown when we tapped out. Yes, operator error. Huge thanks to Jan and Skip for pulling us off. No one hurt, and no major breakage. Had a nice sail back and got some good speed trialing done. We'll be ready for Southern Straits.

[Ishtarsdog]

Jan's pics were awesome once again!

http://janpix.smugmug.com/Boats/Three-Tree-Point-2012/22099660_vhJv3b#!i=1763895829&k=vhBbh9X

Great race. The planing boats shot off like rocket ships, fun to watch. Downhill end was challenging with a steady stream of boats trying to fit between Wasabi (parked) and the leeward mark just offshore. Thanks to CYC for a great event. And thanks to the wind gods for 3 consecutive big air weekends!