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Everglades Challenge 2012


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#101 MisterMoon

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 07:09 PM



I got home at 5am after driving all night... I've got a truck and boat load of crap to deal with today... Give me a few days. Glad I was only doing the shorter UM this year. My heroes of the whole trip are Ridgerunner and Greybeard, who are nearing Flamingo just now. They saved my ass a couple of times. Go Doug and Michael!

My audio commentaries are posted at http://www.duckworksmagazine.com if you want to hear some in-the-moment stuff. I have no idea how coherent it is, though...


After 2.5 days of hell, you decided to drive home all night!!?? I would have found the nearest hotel and collapsed. I really liked listening to your thoughts on the drive home. Love the big black dog chasing you hallucination!!

Thanks for the insight!


If you're going to be dumb, you've got to be tough! Was really missing my wife and kids though.


The hallucinations were last year. I only hallucinated on the drive home this year. That was when I pulled into rest area and grabbed a couple of hours of shut-eye.

#102 MisterMoon

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:34 PM

Randy Smyth (Sew Sew) has hit his help button south of Cape Sable. That probably means he's dropping out...

#103 REW

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:49 PM

His help button has been going off all afternoon, he's still racing. gotta be pretty brutal with the east wind, looks like a ling night.

#104 REW

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:55 PM

Blowing 22 at Layton and 29 at Duck Key, he's nuts!

#105 REW

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 10:57 PM

Blowing 22 at Layton and 29 at Duck Key, he's nuts!

#106 DaveK

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 11:07 PM

I haven't read the SI's and not sure where to find them for each division but what are the rules regarding food. Must you bring everything with you? Obviously, the UF1200 people can't do that. And are there rules regarding camping and cooking your food?

I might be able to do this if I could just park it each night and stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

#107 CrazyR

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:17 AM

I haven't read the SI's and not sure where to find them for each division but what are the rules regarding food. Must you bring everything with you? Obviously, the UF1200 people can't do that. And are there rules regarding camping and cooking your food?

I might be able to do this if I could just park it each night and stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

You can sleep and eat anyway you like. You can stop at hotels and restoranes, there is non between ch2 and 3 though. You can not have RV or meals on wheels folowing you. Basically any ground support is prohibited.

#108 DaveK

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:50 AM


I haven't read the SI's and not sure where to find them for each division but what are the rules regarding food. Must you bring everything with you? Obviously, the UF1200 people can't do that. And are there rules regarding camping and cooking your food?

I might be able to do this if I could just park it each night and stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

You can sleep and eat anyway you like. You can stop at hotels and restoranes, there is non between ch2 and 3 though. You can not have RV or meals on wheels folowing you. Basically any ground support is prohibited.


Hotels are ok? What if you broke something and need a new tiller extension, can someone bring it to the beach? Or what if you holed your boat on a pier, can you have a fiberglass guy haul it and fix it?

And the above is ok for all events?

#109 DaveK

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:52 AM


I haven't read the SI's and not sure where to find them for each division but what are the rules regarding food. Must you bring everything with you? Obviously, the UF1200 people can't do that. And are there rules regarding camping and cooking your food?

I might be able to do this if I could just park it each night and stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

You can sleep and eat anyway you like. You can stop at hotels and restoranes, there is non between ch2 and 3 though. You can not have RV or meals on wheels folowing you. Basically any ground support is prohibited.


Hotels are ok? What if you broke something and need a new tiller extension, can someone bring it to the beach? Or what if you holed your boat on a pier, can you have a fiberglass guy haul it and fix it?

And the above is ok for all events?

#110 zerothehero

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:31 AM

as I understand it Hotels are ok, so long as you did not have a reservation, or previos plan. Planned assistance is not allowed. A few years back a racer was out in the gulf in rough conditions. He beached and several people offered to help carry his boat to the IC. That was ok because it was not planned. If he has set it up in advance, no good. If you break something you can get it fixed but again no setting it up in advance. As I understand it you would be well prepared to know the outfitters that you might need to use and have their phone #'s filed with you. However it would not be ok to have contacted them in advance and given them any info on your boat, equipment, or supplies before starting. Mistermoon, CrazyR, and Justanothersailor would be able to correct anything I have gotten wrong.

#111 zerothehero

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 01:47 AM

basically you are on your own. You can not have a shore crew. You can have people follow you but they can not offer assistance. No spare parts, etc. If you need more water along the way you can get it, provided you get it in an unplanned way. If you need food you can purchase it. Same with boat parts. However the check in is intensive and there are minimums that are carefully checked. Food, water and safety are tops. In my attempt next year (hopefully!) I plan on food for 8 days, water for 3 (can get more at stops), extra gear in the form of line, 1 shroud, 1 forestay, 1 bridle, a few ring dings, clevis pins and the like, epoxy or marine tex, and other small parts I am also planning on 2 gps's, one iphone (with gps ap), one Spot II, possibly an epirb, and paper charts.

#112 CrazyR

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:05 AM

There is no ground support for Everglades Challenge(300 miles) and Marathon(70 miles). You can prearrange motels, and make reservations. Or you can just pull in and crash in. You can not have someone do it for you. If you brake something, you can pull into marina and walk to shop, or call shop and ask them to deliver. This rule becomes somewhat irrelevant now, because you can post a message on a board and get volunteers running to help you. However, you can not have a truck with spare parts following you. basically you can do what you do if you are in real expedition, in unknown place.
Rules for Ultimate Florida(1200 miles) are somewhat more relaxed. There is full ground support at major checkpoints and limited between checkpoints when challenger having problems

#113 Publius Johnson

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:46 AM

Sew Sew appears to have landed on a mud flat considerably off his intended course line and hit the HELP button on his SPOT a bit after 3 am. No mention of this on the WaterTribe discussion forum or anywhere else. Anyone know what's going on with him?

In other news, Hobie Tandem Adventure Island sailor DogsLife is totally kicking ass in this race. Hope he doesn't hospitalize himself again trying to fight the wind today.

#114 REW

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:29 PM

Look at SewSews track now. Randy appears to have had a really tough go last night when it was blowing 30, but he's doing great now. He is one seriously tough and deranged guy. Wave heights last night were showing 7 ft.

#115 MisterMoon

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 04:05 PM

There is only one sailing mono-hull left in the event, my buddy Gary Blankenship's home-built Frolic 2. The Core Sound 20 with Doug and Michael got knocked down last night and appear to have lost or damaged their main mast in the mud down near Cape Sable. They are OK and waiting for the wind to die down for SeaTow to come to tow the boat back to civilization.

The only multis left are Alan and Dawn Stewart's trimaran now approaching Chololoskee and Randy Smyth's tri now approaching the finish along with a handful of Hobie Adventure Islands kayak/trimarans further back.

My guess is we'll see at most 10 finishers out of ~65 who started. This is going down as the toughest year every for this event.

#116 CrazyR

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:00 PM

EC 2002 had 4 finishers only. I dropped out at checkpoint 2 and my catamaran was the only sailboat made that far.

#117 DaveK

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 10:42 PM

EC 2002 had 4 finishers only. I dropped out at checkpoint 2 and my catamaran was the only sailboat made that far.


So are u done doing this race? Btw, I still remember your explanation of Florida Bay from last year.

#118 MicroTom

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 11:51 PM

Hey Anarchists. I was crew on Hare on Fire a 1969 19' Lightning. We were listed as DonKeyHoTey (boat owner) in class 4 (monohull sailboats). We held first place past check point one in the EC but suffered a broken rudder in Pine Island Sound. It was a very hectic moment after two days of racing on the ragged edge. The two piece rudder snapped and we had do drop the sails and limp into North Captiva Island. We dodged a lot of bullets in the process. Prior to the failure we had been as much as 10 miles off shore, surfed the boat past Boca Grand inlet on an outgoing tide and we were able to make land fall about a half mile north of Redfish Pass. If the rudder had broken around any of those other spots I probably wouldn't be home writing this right now.

All in all it was a great adventure. The conditions were very difficult this year. High winds from the start that only increased to gale force gusts through the night. Day two was no better. And those who passed us and went on to Check Point 2 and beyond were rewarded with more tough conditions. We will be back next year for another try.

Here is my rough video footage from the race. Skip to 7 min 30 sec to see our broken rudder and the fix we did to get off the island and to a boat ramp.




#119 RedTuna

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 12:13 AM

Holey chao! Great recovery.

#120 Publius Johnson

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 01:38 AM

Skip to 7 min 30 sec to see our broken rudder and the fix we did to get off the island and to a boat ramp.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh0YjSld6XA


If you skip ahead you miss the getting sideways past the bridge and then skipping off the fishing pier bits. ;)

#121 CrazyR

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 02:56 AM

So are u done doing this race?

I'm not sure. As I said - the race is addictive. Because of the race I got very good friends there. I miss people more than the race course.
But I need a new boat to do the Challenge. I'm full time live-aboard in my cruising boat and I have no room, no need and no money for a beach boat. Besides I don't always agree with Watertribe's Chief on some issues.
Eventually, I guess, I'll be back.

#122 zerothehero

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 04:28 AM

Hey Anarchists. I was crew on Hare on Fire a 1969 19' Lightning. We were listed as DonKeyHoTey (boat owner) in class 4 (monohull sailboats). We held first place past check point one in the EC but suffered a broken rudder in Pine Island Sound. It was a very hectic moment after two days of racing on the ragged edge. The two piece rudder snapped and we had do drop the sails and limp into North Captiva Island. We dodged a lot of bullets in the process. Prior to the failure we had been as much as 10 miles off shore, surfed the boat past Boca Grand inlet on an outgoing tide and we were able to make land fall about a half mile north of Redfish Pass. If the rudder had broken around any of those other spots I probably wouldn't be home writing this right now.

All in all it was a great adventure. The conditions were very difficult this year. High winds from the start that only increased to gale force gusts through the night. Day two was no better. And those who passed us and went on to Check Point 2 and beyond were rewarded with more tough conditions. We will be back next year for another try.

Here is my rough video footage from the race. Skip to 7 min 30 sec to see our broken rudder and the fix we did to get off the island and to a boat ramp.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yh0YjSld6XA

saw you guys at the start but didn't say hi. I was trying to stay out of the way since people were busy. Also I was more focused on picking the multi guys as that is what I have planned for now. Loved the boat though, gave it the once over a few times. I was actually right near you guys at the horn. Lightnings are great boats for this challenge. I don't have much time in them but I did the Worlds in Miami in 2003. Interestingly there is one near me, I pass it every day taking my kids to school. It is behind a single wide and hasn't moved in years. Always meant to have a look. You might have inspired me.

#123 Publius Johnson

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 11:14 AM

Good grief. Update on Sew Sew over here.

Short version: mast fell, tied to a crab pot, broke ama landing in surf, epoxied half the night, then slept in rich guy's house. Made it to within a few miles of finish, knocked down, cops ran over his boat, possibly destroying it.

Meanwhile, DogsLife continues to totally kick ass in his Tandem Adventure Island. B)

#124 zerothehero

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:21 AM

totally sucks.....

#125 Publius Johnson

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 07:35 AM

Meanwhile, DogsLife continues to totally kick ass in his Tandem Adventure Island. B)


I need to keep up better over on the Hobie forum. DogsLife was in a regular Adventure Island, not a tandem. He came in 3rd overall, followed by TideTraveller in another AI in 4th overall.

Go the silly plastic toys! B)

#126 zerothehero

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 12:13 PM

the AI andTI's do very well in this race, in fact Chief has tried to get me to switch over to them more than once. While they are cool boats to me it doesn't really seem like sailing and the idea that you have to sit in the same spot the whole race doesn't really appeal to me. Plus a fully kitted out TI is some serious coin for what it is.

#127 tikipete

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 01:08 PM


Meanwhile, DogsLife continues to totally kick ass in his Tandem Adventure Island. B)


I need to keep up better over on the Hobie forum. DogsLife was in a regular Adventure Island, not a tandem. He came in 3rd overall, followed by TideTraveller in another AI in 4th overall.

Go the silly proven plastic toys! B)


I've always liked the AIs, gotta try one!

#128 Publius Johnson

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:41 PM

Plus a fully kitted out TI is some serious coin for what it is.


The pain fades but the fun remains. We bought ours in 2008, almost 4 years ago now. The price has fallen to under $5 per day and drops more with each passing day. Over the lifespan of a boat, it works out to about a cup of coffee a day.

Pete, I have two and I'm an hour away. Pick a REALLY windy day and we'll go try to break stuff. We probably will not succeed.

AI's cannot be capsized by wind, as far as I can tell. The only ones I know about that have capsized have been rolled in surf and they survived. A fast trimaran can be capsized by wind, and a fast trimaran should break if rolled in the surf. Those are the reasons I believe the AI design has a LOT more speed potential than the 3rd and 4th place finishes show. It was never made to be fast. It was made to be a really fun consumer toy, and Hobie succeeded brilliantly at that task.

#129 tikipete

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Posted 09 March 2012 - 02:43 PM

I'm In! You name a day, I'll buy lunch.

#130 zerothehero

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:19 AM


Plus a fully kitted out TI is some serious coin for what it is.


The pain fades but the fun remains. We bought ours in 2008, almost 4 years ago now. The price has fallen to under $5 per day and drops more with each passing day. Over the lifespan of a boat, it works out to about a cup of coffee a day.

Pete, I have two and I'm an hour away. Pick a REALLY windy day and we'll go try to break stuff. We probably will not succeed.

AI's cannot be capsized by wind, as far as I can tell. The only ones I know about that have capsized have been rolled in surf and they survived. A fast trimaran can be capsized by wind, and a fast trimaran should break if rolled in the surf. Those are the reasons I believe the AI design has a LOT more speed potential than the 3rd and 4th place finishes show. It was never made to be fast. It was made to be a really fun consumer toy, and Hobie succeeded brilliantly at that task.

Ok, wait, you live in FL AND have a TI (or 2) and you have yet to throw down and sign up? I live close to the Canadian border and I am thinking about it, seriously. I agree over the life of the boat, it isn't much to own a TI, but it just isn't my cup of tea. A well equiped TI with all the extras you would want is $5K+, while the 17 I bought used was $1600 with trailer. I like sailboats with tillers, boats you hike, if only a bit. Also btw, AI's can be capsized by wind. If houses are torn apart by it, AI's can be blown to pieces too. I have seen vids on youtube where the ama's are completely buried while a Hobie Waves scoots past, practically flat. And a few AI's and TI's have had rudder problems and broken mast steps in past EC's, which isn't really fixable. They may be the best production boats made for the event but they are not perfect. Good, yes, probably great, but they represent a compromise. They are an ok kayak, an ok sailboat, and an ok tri. Put it all together and they are a really versatile platform that is very capable at solving many of the issues that the EC throws at a boat. But they really don't excel at any one thing. Almost any Hobie sailboat will sail better on almost any point of sail. Any Hobie with Mirage drives is powerful and fast but others are faster. Like I said, this compromise may make them the best off the shelf boat for this race. Then again, the start would be pretty dull if it were Hobie Adventures.

Don't get me wrong, I think they are neat boats and have not ruled them out as a choice for myself. They offer a unique platform for many types of on the water experiences and are well made, well designed and very cool. However based on my lifetime of experience I have made a different choice, For now and still fell that 5K is a bit high for a roto molded sit on top with extras. My 2 cents and worth every penny! ;)

#131 Publius Johnson

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Posted 10 March 2012 - 09:06 AM

Ok, wait, you live in FL AND have a TI (or 2) and you have yet to throw down and sign up? I live close to the Canadian border and I am thinking about it, seriously. I agree over the life of the boat, it isn't much to own a TI, but it just isn't my cup of tea. A well equiped TI with all the extras you would want is $5K+, while the 17 I bought used was $1600 with trailer. I like sailboats with tillers, boats you hike, if only a bit. Also btw, AI's can be capsized by wind. If houses are torn apart by it, AI's can be blown to pieces too. I have seen vids on youtube where the ama's are completely buried while a Hobie Waves scoots past, practically flat. ...

For now and still fell that 5K is a bit high for a roto molded sit on top with extras. My 2 cents and worth every penny! ;)


Yes, I almost live on the EC course and my wife and I have a pair, yet I have not done it. Really had no desire until I visited the beach last year. At that point I realized that this was my kind of boating in my back yard, yet there was a good chance I could not do this Challenge. Whoa? What? An actual challenge for me, based on my kind of boating? You could put me in lots of boats in different places and I would be out of my element, but in small boats in the tropical parts of Florida, I'm pretty good. It's not all that often that someone suggests an adventure that makes me think I possibly could not do it. That's intriguing and something of an affront. I think I'll have to do the race one day just to make sure I can. If I were sure I could do it, I would be bored by the prospect. The possibility of failure makes it interesting.

I really don't think an AI can be capsized by just the wind. I think something would break first, so yes, blown to pieces, but not capsized. It just doesn't have the power to flip itself. I have tried! Yeah, you can bury an ama and make all kinds of dramatic splashing, but it won't go over. If you look on the Hobie forum, I recently posted about having an ama collapse in a strong gust, and my boat still did not go over. It was darn close, but came back up. It also can't be pitchpoled. If you do something that would ordinarily result in pitchpoling a multihull, the AI just stabs itself into the water and then floats gently back up and continues on as if you meant to do that. (From my file of things I know, but should not.)

I agree with your comments about various weaknesses in the design. It's a consumer toy, and Hobie does a good job of addressing issues as they surface, but it's not perfect by any means.

Comparing the price to old, used boats is really not a fair comparison. When put alongside other new rotomolds of the same size, if you add the $500 (and cheap at that rate) for a Mirage Drive and some boat buck$ for a carbon mast, sail, rotomolded amas, seat, and stuff you will find that it's competitive. Nothing compares to it directly, which is why nothing else on the market costs as much, but if you brought anything else on the market up to being an AI, it would cost about what AI's cost.

#132 zerothehero

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:34 AM

Having never sailed one my opinion isn't much. However, I think any sailboat can capsize and pitchpole. In enough wind even very buoyant beach cats and small tris will go over. Once that leeward ama goes in deep enough it;s just simple math. The more the boat slows the more force is pushing it over.

As per cost my issue, a new Hobie Wave is a little over 5K. A new Hobie kayak with mirage drive is (depending on model) @ $1500-$2600. Meanwhile my comparable sit on top (non Hobie) cost me $600 (granted without mirage drives). So why are Hobies so inflated in cost? If a Hobie Mirage Outback deluxe is $1850 why is a TI so much more ($5200+) and an AI is $2600. That is a bit more than a new Sunfish, about what a new Laser is and just a little less than several other 2 person one designs. And then that is the base package. By the time you add tramps and all the other stuff you would want for the EC it is a very expensive boat for what it is. Again, don't think I don't like the boat but for a sit on top kayak with sail and amas it is way more than a good used Lightning, Flying Scot, Laser, Sunfish, Vanguard 15, or, I could go on. They seem to sell well, hold their value reasonably well, and are well liked (even have a cult following) but I think they are way over priced as compared to other sit on tops, and other small boats both used and new. I know they routinely do very well in the EC and that is a testament to their versatility but again, if I am going to shell out $6000 or more for a boat of that size I want something more suited to my sailing style.

#133 Publius Johnson

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:23 AM

Having never sailed one my opinion isn't much. However, I think any sailboat can capsize and pitchpole. In enough wind even very buoyant beach cats and small tris will go over. Once that leeward ama goes in deep enough it;s just simple math. The more the boat slows the more force is pushing it over.

As per cost my issue, a new Hobie Wave is a little over 5K. A new Hobie kayak with mirage drive is (depending on model) @ $1500-$2600. Meanwhile my comparable sit on top (non Hobie) cost me $600 (granted without mirage drives). So why are Hobies so inflated in cost? If a Hobie Mirage Outback deluxe is $1850 why is a TI so much more ($5200+) and an AI is $2600.


What you're missing on the capsize math is that the ama is large and the sail is small (for a fast trimaran, that is.) Once the leeward ama goes in deep enough, that little sail doesn't have the power to push it deeper. If a gust comes along to try to give it that power, the mast just bends and spills it. That's my experience, anyway. I have sailed mine in the edges of tropical storms with 40 kt gusts. I think any more wind would just break things and the boat would still not capsize.

As for the price, the Outback is only a 12' boat. A regular 16' Mirage Adventure is $2k. For another $600 you get a carbon fiber mast, sail, two amas and associated akas. Best $600 boat upgrade anywhere, IMO. Completely different boat as a sailing trimaran, but I can still take it apart and use it as a regular Adventure on the very rare occasions when I want to do that.

#134 zerothehero

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:54 PM

I here ya but I still think anything can capsize. But it is a mute point anyway. As for my price thing, true, I didn't use the best comparisons. It's just with my situation and the way I like to sail I couldn't eat that cost for that boat. That might be a bad call for me in the long run but that is my feeling. The AI and TI might just be the ultimate boat for the EC (Core Sounds aside) but I think they are too much $. Hijack over, back to the topic.

#135 A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

<HIJACK WARNING>

Tom - what's the sail area on your kayak? How does the mast attach to the boat? I've been giving thought to re-purposing an old windsurfer sail to my Tarpon 160.

#136 Publius Johnson

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:42 PM

<HIJACK WARNING>

Tom - what's the sail area on your kayak? How does the mast attach to the boat? I've been giving thought to re-purposing an old windsurfer sail to my Tarpon 160.


Which one?

Actually, it doesn't matter. I don't know the sail area on my Klepper or on my Adventure Island. More than enough and not enough, respectively. ;)

#137 zerothehero

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:39 AM

Tom, OK I am going to eat some crow here on my cost argument, well a lot of crow really. Just took apart one centerboard tonight on the H17 and it is cracked exactly where they do on this design. In my particular case the cost argument is now totally void. The boat I bought for $1600 with trailer now looks like it COULD need another $1600 just to be safe and sound for the race. That's not including the repairs I have already completed. So I could have had a new AI for the cost of what I have now, and what I need to do. However, I have 3 centerboards for this boat. 2 are damaged in exactly the same way, not completely sure about the third. I can attempt a fix on this, and if my plan is a good one it should be better and stronger than stock. Then of course there are the rudders that need to be replaced at $250 each. And the mods to the sail. And true, it still wont be as good when the wind dies as an AI or TI. But if it is 10-15 I will be gone, gone I say, compared to an AI or TI (and we know how often that happens, sailing in exactly your ideal conditions :blink: ). But anyway I will be one of those boats you come to see at the start, so I guess I have that going for me. Course that is IF I ever get there.

#138 spidennis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:05 AM

Tom, OK I am going to eat some crow here on my cost argument, well a lot of crow really. Just took apart one centerboard tonight on the H17 and it is cracked exactly where they do on this design. In my particular case the cost argument is now totally void. The boat I bought for $1600 with trailer now looks like it COULD need another $1600 just to be safe and sound for the race. That's not including the repairs I have already completed. So I could have had a new AI for the cost of what I have now, and what I need to do. However, I have 3 centerboards for this boat. 2 are damaged in exactly the same way, not completely sure about the third. I can attempt a fix on this, and if my plan is a good one it should be better and stronger than stock. Then of course there are the rudders that need to be replaced at $250 each. And the mods to the sail. And true, it still wont be as good when the wind dies as an AI or TI. But if it is 10-15 I will be gone, gone I say, compared to an AI or TI (and we know how often that happens, sailing in exactly your ideal conditions :blink: ). But anyway I will be one of those boats you come to see at the start, so I guess I have that going for me. Course that is IF I ever get there.


As with most races, it's actually two races, the first one is just getting to the starting line. It does look as though you got a good start on it and I'll see you there!

#139 Publius Johnson

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 01:30 AM

Tom, OK I am going to eat some crow here on my cost argument, well a lot of crow really. Just took apart one centerboard tonight on the H17 and it is cracked exactly where they do on this design. In my particular case the cost argument is now totally void. The boat I bought for $1600 with trailer now looks like it COULD need another $1600 just to be safe and sound for the race. That's not including the repairs I have already completed. So I could have had a new AI for the cost of what I have now, and what I need to do. However, I have 3 centerboards for this boat. 2 are damaged in exactly the same way, not completely sure about the third. I can attempt a fix on this, and if my plan is a good one it should be better and stronger than stock. Then of course there are the rudders that need to be replaced at $250 each. And the mods to the sail. And true, it still wont be as good when the wind dies as an AI or TI. But if it is 10-15 I will be gone, gone I say, compared to an AI or TI (and we know how often that happens, sailing in exactly your ideal conditions :blink: ). But anyway I will be one of those boats you come to see at the start, so I guess I have that going for me. Course that is IF I ever get there.


Sorry to hear about your cracks, but you seem to have the attitude part right to do the EC. Press on! See you on the beach. B)

#140 MisterMoon

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 12:33 PM

Tom, OK I am going to eat some crow here on my cost argument, well a lot of crow really. Just took apart one centerboard tonight on the H17 and it is cracked exactly where they do on this design. In my particular case the cost argument is now totally void. The boat I bought for $1600 with trailer now looks like it COULD need another $1600 just to be safe and sound for the race. That's not including the repairs I have already completed. So I could have had a new AI for the cost of what I have now, and what I need to do. However, I have 3 centerboards for this boat. 2 are damaged in exactly the same way, not completely sure about the third. I can attempt a fix on this, and if my plan is a good one it should be better and stronger than stock. Then of course there are the rudders that need to be replaced at $250 each. And the mods to the sail. And true, it still wont be as good when the wind dies as an AI or TI. But if it is 10-15 I will be gone, gone I say, compared to an AI or TI (and we know how often that happens, sailing in exactly your ideal conditions :blink: ). But anyway I will be one of those boats you come to see at the start, so I guess I have that going for me. Course that is IF I ever get there.


"Ideal conditions...." Hahahahaha!

My experience is they last no more than 5 hours at a time. The rest of the time it's either too much or too little, and from the wrong direction. I have to admit I'm looking forward to our next cruise-in-company event for small boats in May, the Florida 120, where I can use my outboard to start cocktail hour early if the fun-o-meter drops too low.

#141 zerothehero

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:58 PM

Hmmm, Florida 120, huh. Sounds like fun.

#142 MisterMoon

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:20 PM

It is fun. If you can get down here, you can come along with me on my boat.

#143 tikipete

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:35 PM

Link?

#144 MisterMoon

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 07:36 PM

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/FL120

The group does moderate new members, but since I'm the moderator I promise you'll get in.

#145 DaveK

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:43 PM

So Sandy Bottom is out front with Mosquito trailing. Mosquito looks like it's a kayak, that guys arms must be huge. Wonder why Sewsew tracker still shows him out there?

#146 zerothehero

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:04 PM

If I am not mistaken Sandy bottom is sailing on the trimaran Mosquito with her son SOS. There are pics of Mosquito earlier in the thread, it's the wooden tri, custom built for this race and finished on the beach, after the start. They are part of the B&B Yacht Co.

#147 DaveK

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:31 PM

If I am not mistaken Sandy bottom is sailing on the trimaran Mosquito with her son SOS. There are pics of Mosquito earlier in the thread, it's the wooden tri, custom built for this race and finished on the beach, after the start. They are part of the B&B Yacht Co.


I hear you, this is where I'm confused. There are 2 spots out there and one is mosquito and the other is sandy butt. You tell me what to make of it?

#148 spidennis

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:45 PM


If I am not mistaken Sandy bottom is sailing on the trimaran Mosquito with her son SOS. There are pics of Mosquito earlier in the thread, it's the wooden tri, custom built for this race and finished on the beach, after the start. They are part of the B&B Yacht Co.


I hear you, this is where I'm confused. There are 2 spots out there and one is mosquito and the other is sandy butt. You tell me what to make of it?


The Water Tribe names are Sandybottom/SOS and their boat name is Mosquito. Mosquito Magnet is Also a WaterTribe name, but he doesn't have a name on his boat.

#149 zerothehero

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:14 AM

Mosquitomagnet is a solo male, paddling a NFD Silhouette Kayak. It looks like it is a fiberglass sea kayak of moderate to low volume. Arms of steel to be sure.

#150 phillysailor

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:28 AM

My wife and I attempted the EC this year in a Norseboat 17.5 Packed it in after 2 1/2 days of >30mph winds. Might've made it further, but I prefer to stay married!

Check out our video

#151 Publius Johnson

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:50 AM

My wife and I attempted the EC this year in a Norseboat 17.5 Packed it in after 2 1/2 days of >30mph winds. Might've made it further, but I prefer to stay married!

Check out our video


Nice video! Are you going to try again?

#152 Just Another Sailor

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:42 AM

Tom, OK I am going to eat some crow here on my cost argument, well a lot of crow really. Just took apart one centerboard tonight on the H17 and it is cracked exactly where they do on this design. In my particular case the cost argument is now totally void. The boat I bought for $1600 with trailer now looks like it COULD need another $1600 just to be safe and sound for the race. That's not including the repairs I have already completed. So I could have had a new AI for the cost of what I have now, and what I need to do. However, I have 3 centerboards for this boat. 2 are damaged in exactly the same way, not completely sure about the third. I can attempt a fix on this, and if my plan is a good one it should be better and stronger than stock. Then of course there are the rudders that need to be replaced at $250 each. And the mods to the sail. And true, it still wont be as good when the wind dies as an AI or TI. But if it is 10-15 I will be gone, gone I say, compared to an AI or TI (and we know how often that happens, sailing in exactly your ideal conditions :blink: ). But anyway I will be one of those boats you come to see at the start, so I guess I have that going for me. Course that is IF I ever get there.


Yep... Birch & I bought the Hobie 18 1986 w/ trailer for $1,250. To get the boat ready to race and finish cost almost $7,000

#153 tikipete

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:11 PM

:) SCOTW. Kudos.

That's not a bad trip in itself, a little sail down to South Seas and back home again.http://www.southseas.com/
I like Tween Waters http://www.tween-wat...mmodations.html but there must be a hundred places to pull into.

#154 zerothehero

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:07 PM


My wife and I attempted the EC this year in a Norseboat 17.5 Packed it in after 2 1/2 days of >30mph winds. Might've made it further, but I prefer to stay married!

Check out our video


Nice video! Are you going to try again?

Would love to know more about what happened at the bridge and what the knife was needed for. Care to share? The boat looked great, btw. Great job on the voyage.

#155 zerothehero

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:12 PM


Tom, OK I am going to eat some crow here on my cost argument, well a lot of crow really. Just took apart one centerboard tonight on the H17 and it is cracked exactly where they do on this design. In my particular case the cost argument is now totally void. The boat I bought for $1600 with trailer now looks like it COULD need another $1600 just to be safe and sound for the race. That's not including the repairs I have already completed. So I could have had a new AI for the cost of what I have now, and what I need to do. However, I have 3 centerboards for this boat. 2 are damaged in exactly the same way, not completely sure about the third. I can attempt a fix on this, and if my plan is a good one it should be better and stronger than stock. Then of course there are the rudders that need to be replaced at $250 each. And the mods to the sail. And true, it still wont be as good when the wind dies as an AI or TI. But if it is 10-15 I will be gone, gone I say, compared to an AI or TI (and we know how often that happens, sailing in exactly your ideal conditions :blink: ). But anyway I will be one of those boats you come to see at the start, so I guess I have that going for me. Course that is IF I ever get there.


Yep... Birch & I bought the Hobie 18 1986 w/ trailer for $1,250. To get the boat ready to race and finish cost almost $7,000

Is that $ just on the boat? Or all the gear that is required/needed? I was hoping to under that mark but I suppose I might be kidding myself. You guys looked good heading off the beach. It was cool to see the Tornado, Prindle, Scissors, and you guys blasting away from the fleet. How did it all go? Any major issues, breakages? How was it coping with the high winds? Were you reefed most of the time? Also I got to the beach late and your mast was already up, if you had a chance I would love to see a pic of your mast head. Great race you guys had.

#156 phillysailor

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:36 PM



My wife and I attempted the EC this year in a Norseboat 17.5 Packed it in after 2 1/2 days of >30mph winds. Might've made it further, but I prefer to stay married!

Check out our video


Nice video! Are you going to try again?

Would love to know more about what happened at the bridge and what the knife was needed for. Care to share? The boat looked great, btw. Great job on the voyage.


Thanks, glad you liked the vid.

Try again? "Probably" veering to "yup." Kind of addictive, and a perfect use of the boat: trailerable, sets up reasonably quickly, ok to windward and ok off the wind. Not bad rowing because hull shape keeps you straight, although in strong winds the bow tends to catch the wind. You can camp the boat: boards lay across the cockpit so you have about 7ft long by 4-5 feet wide sleeping space which I covered with a Siltarp and then we used bivy bags. I've bought and used the gear. Learning the electronics and navigation, route planning. The real reason to do it again is to spend more time around the lunatics who take part in Watertribe events. They are my kind of mad, if you know what I mean. Especially the older guys: they really surprise you with their endurance and savvy.

The bridge incident was at the Manatee Avenue Bridge exiting Tampa Bay into the ICW. We tried to sail up-current and up-wind through the pilings to the side of the channel (plenty of water, good clearance, and the "chute" for the channel was, by comparison, pretty long. We were doing ok, but 2/3rds through we lost forward speed b/c wind variation underneath the bridge, and in the process of trying to bail out the mainsheet didn't run all the way out, we couldn't bear away completely and so smacked against a piling with our port bow. Kind of hung up there, and one of the reefing lines on the main caught a bracket on the piling. Quick swipe and we were free. Thankfully minimal drama, but the holes were definitely starting to line up in the swiss cheese! Could easily have been worse.

#157 spidennis

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:43 PM




My wife and I attempted the EC this year in a Norseboat 17.5 Packed it in after 2 1/2 days of >30mph winds. Might've made it further, but I prefer to stay married!

Check out our video


Nice video! Are you going to try again?

Would love to know more about what happened at the bridge and what the knife was needed for. Care to share? The boat looked great, btw. Great job on the voyage.


Thanks, glad you liked the vid.

Try again? "Probably" veering to "yup." Kind of addictive, and a perfect use of the boat: trailerable, sets up reasonably quickly, ok to windward and ok off the wind. Not bad rowing because hull shape keeps you straight, although in strong winds the bow tends to catch the wind. You can camp the boat: boards lay across the cockpit so you have about 7ft long by 4-5 feet wide sleeping space which I covered with a Siltarp and then we used bivy bags. I've bought and used the gear. Learning the electronics and navigation, route planning. The real reason to do it again is to spend more time around the lunatics who take part in Watertribe events. They are my kind of mad, if you know what I mean. Especially the older guys: they really surprise you with their endurance and savvy.

The bridge incident was at the Manatee Avenue Bridge exiting Tampa Bay into the ICW. We tried to sail up-current and up-wind through the pilings to the side of the channel (plenty of water, good clearance, and the "chute" for the channel was, by comparison, pretty long. We were doing ok, but 2/3rds through we lost forward speed b/c wind variation underneath the bridge, and in the process of trying to bail out the mainsheet didn't run all the way out, we couldn't bear away completely and so smacked against a piling with our port bow. Kind of hung up there, and one of the reefing lines on the main caught a bracket on the piling. Quick swipe and we were free. Thankfully minimal drama, but the holes were lining up in the swiss cheese if you know what I mean!


That is some crew you found for the EC and your life, certainly a keeper! You oh so lucky Son of a Gun!

#158 phillysailor

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 03:59 PM





My wife and I attempted the EC this year in a Norseboat 17.5 Packed it in after 2 1/2 days of >30mph winds. Might've made it further, but I prefer to stay married!

Check out our video


Nice video! Are you going to try again?

Would love to know more about what happened at the bridge and what the knife was needed for. Care to share? The boat looked great, btw. Great job on the voyage.


Thanks, glad you liked the vid.

Try again? "Probably" veering to "yup." Kind of addictive, and a perfect use of the boat: trailerable, sets up reasonably quickly, ok to windward and ok off the wind. Not bad rowing because hull shape keeps you straight, although in strong winds the bow tends to catch the wind. You can camp the boat: boards lay across the cockpit so you have about 7ft long by 4-5 feet wide sleeping space which I covered with a Siltarp and then we used bivy bags. I've bought and used the gear. Learning the electronics and navigation, route planning. The real reason to do it again is to spend more time around the lunatics who take part in Watertribe events. They are my kind of mad, if you know what I mean. Especially the older guys: they really surprise you with their endurance and savvy.

The bridge incident was at the Manatee Avenue Bridge exiting Tampa Bay into the ICW. We tried to sail up-current and up-wind through the pilings to the side of the channel (plenty of water, good clearance, and the "chute" for the channel was, by comparison, pretty long. We were doing ok, but 2/3rds through we lost forward speed b/c wind variation underneath the bridge, and in the process of trying to bail out the mainsheet didn't run all the way out, we couldn't bear away completely and so smacked against a piling with our port bow. Kind of hung up there, and one of the reefing lines on the main caught a bracket on the piling. Quick swipe and we were free. Thankfully minimal drama, but the holes were lining up in the swiss cheese if you know what I mean!


That is some crew you found for the EC and your life, certainly a keeper! You oh so lucky Son of a Gun!


I was very surprised that she volunteered to go (I was going to attempt it solo, but she wanted to make sure I stayed safe), and how great she was the whole time. A big step for us, to be honest. I think she would at least consider doing another Watertribe event; she has a healthy competitive drive and a desire to finish what you start which I can tap into!

#159 MisterMoon

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:44 PM

The real reason to do it again is to spend more time around the lunatics who take part in Watertribe events. They are my kind of mad, if you know what I mean. Especially the older guys: they really surprise you with their endurance and savvy.


That's exactly why I like the EC so much. All it takes to join the "club" is push your boat off the beach at the start of one of these events. When you see teams like Tyro and Paddlecarver with combined age of approaching 160 years still out there kicking ass, you realize you NEED to be part of this group.

#160 zerothehero

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:19 PM

I too found the group very cool. Everyone has this vibe. Everybody was checking out others rigs and not being judgmental. Yeah there were the sanity questions but that is more jest than judgement. Everyone seemed genuinely interested in each others success and were all very willing to offer help and advice.

Thanks for letting me know what the bridge incident was. Before attending this years start I was not considering the inside, but know I know it needs just as much consideration as the outside, if not more.

My wife too has expressed and interest in going and who know, that might just turn out to be the case. I still look at CL and Ebay for 2 person rides, a used lightnings can be had for very low $ if they are out to pature as day sailors or cruisers. My mind wanders to converting on with a small cabin. Could end up with something a little like Lugnuts boat.

#161 DaveK

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:53 PM

My wife and I attempted the EC this year in a Norseboat 17.5 Packed it in after 2 1/2 days of >30mph winds. Might've made it further, but I prefer to stay married!

Check out our video


Awesome vid! Well done!

#162 zerothehero

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:12 AM

for those interested there is a thread going in multihull A about a catamaran race similar tot he EC that has yet to be run and there are race reports by the H18 crew there. A great read.

#163 tikipete

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:18 AM

https://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/pages/Sandeq-Race-Forum/228172623881429

Just wanted to pass this along as a different approach.

#164 F-18 5150

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:30 AM

bump to get past occupy