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80's era sailboat racing


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#1 Richard N

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:36 AM

Hey guys,
I was recently in Muskegon Michigan and came a older (1980's) wooden racing boat in a boat yard. There was a gent there who shared with me some information about it but I forget the some of the most important information about it amongst the all the facts and figures. The boat is engineered from a process of using resin soaked cedar strips layer in a multidirectional pattern. The term he used started with the letter G and it was called the G_______ Process created by what sounded like a french builder. The boat has been abandoned for the last 4 years and has been neglected. This thing looks like a wicked fast piece of furniture on the water he tells me and mentioned that the marina might want to get rid of it. Posible win for me! I emailed the yard but I was hoping you guys might know what I'm referring to, because I certainly can't remember. It is about 46' long with a 13ft beam and with steps on the transom. I'm hoping to get over there sometime this week and take some pics. There were 3 of us lusting after this boat and no one thought to snap a pic. What do you guys think? And that for the help :)

#2 Tripper dave

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:24 AM

Hey guys,
I was recently in Muskegon Michigan and came a older (1980's) wooden racing boat in a boat yard. There was a gent there who shared with me some information about it but I forget the some of the most important information about it amongst the all the facts and figures. The boat is engineered from a process of using resin soaked cedar strips layer in a multidirectional pattern. The term he used started with the letter G and it was called the G_______ Process created by what sounded like a french builder. The boat has been abandoned for the last 4 years and has been neglected. This thing looks like a wicked fast piece of furniture on the water he tells me and mentioned that the marina might want to get rid of it. Posible win for me! I emailed the yard but I was hoping you guys might know what I'm referring to, because I certainly can't remember. It is about 46' long with a 13ft beam and with steps on the transom. I'm hoping to get over there sometime this week and take some pics. There were 3 of us lusting after this boat and no one thought to snap a pic. What do you guys think? And that for the help :)


Gougeon?
As in Gougeon brothers Meade and Jan who run http://www.gougeon.com/ out of Bay City.
They are prolific builders, designers experimenters and the manufacturers of West System Epoxy.
They're also great guys to hang out with and sail with.....

#3 cirrhosis of the river

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:34 AM

Wood Epoxy Saturation Technique.From Bay City Mi.

#4 SailBlueH2O

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:07 AM

A Hole In The Water In Which Money Is Thrown

#5 KiwiJoker

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 07:11 AM

Hey guys,
I was recently in Muskegon Michigan and came a older (1980's) wooden racing boat in a boat yard. There was a gent there who shared with me some information about it but I forget the some of the most important information about it amongst the all the facts and figures. The boat is engineered from a process of using resin soaked cedar strips layer in a multidirectional pattern. The term he used started with the letter G and it was called the G_______ Process created by what sounded like a french builder. The boat has been abandoned for the last 4 years and has been neglected. This thing looks like a wicked fast piece of furniture on the water he tells me and mentioned that the marina might want to get rid of it. Posible win for me! I emailed the yard but I was hoping you guys might know what I'm referring to, because I certainly can't remember. It is about 46' long with a 13ft beam and with steps on the transom. I'm hoping to get over there sometime this week and take some pics. There were 3 of us lusting after this boat and no one thought to snap a pic. What do you guys think? And that for the help :)

You've got some good advice here already. Absent any damage from grounding, storms, etc., your find is probably in pretty good shape. Gougeon's WEST System results in strong, long-lasting boats. Still, a refitting a 46-footer can soak up a lot of cash. And don't expect an amazing bargain. The marina boat yard will have a pretty good handle on the value of the vessel in its yard. Of course they might just want to get rid of it.

If you're serious you need to do a couple of things. Get an independent survey from a registered surveyor with a good rep. And have Gougeon Brothers quote on a refit. It can be one they'll do, or one you can do with their advise. Call 866-937-8797 and ask for Meade Gougeon. He's probably not so hands-on these days but it's a good way to start.



#6 ~HHN92~

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

Bring On Another Thousand

#7 kent_island_sailor

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:51 PM

If the hull is PERFECT and she just needs an engine, sails, and interior it would be cheaper to get another boat.
So.....if you have spare time and want a unique boat, go for it. As a route to a cheap boat, maybe not so much.

#8 Richard N

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:32 PM


Hey guys,
I was recently in Muskegon Michigan and came a older (1980's) wooden racing boat in a boat yard. There was a gent there who shared with me some information about it but I forget the some of the most important information about it amongst the all the facts and figures. The boat is engineered from a process of using resin soaked cedar strips layer in a multidirectional pattern. The term he used started with the letter G and it was called the G_______ Process created by what sounded like a french builder. The boat has been abandoned for the last 4 years and has been neglected. This thing looks like a wicked fast piece of furniture on the water he tells me and mentioned that the marina might want to get rid of it. Posible win for me! I emailed the yard but I was hoping you guys might know what I'm referring to, because I certainly can't remember. It is about 46' long with a 13ft beam and with steps on the transom. I'm hoping to get over there sometime this week and take some pics. There were 3 of us lusting after this boat and no one thought to snap a pic. What do you guys think? And that for the help :)


Gougeon?
As in Gougeon brothers Meade and Jan who run http://www.gougeon.com/ out of Bay City.
They are prolific builders, designers experimenters and the manufacturers of West System Epoxy.
They're also great guys to hang out with and sail with.....


Yes! Gougeon! Fantastic! I knew I'd know it when I heard it. Thank you so much, I knew you guys knew your shit :D

#9 NorCalLaser

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 03:39 PM

the question now is, does dick know what his shit is getting into with this ole woodie?

#10 Richard N

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:49 PM

From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?



Here is a link to the Kaufman 46 for sale
http://proto2.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_full_detail.jsp?slim=broker&boat_id=2315205&checked_boats=2315205&hosturl=portsideyachtbrokers&&ybw=&units=Feet&access=Public&listing_id=1768&url=

#11 TornadoSail2016

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:21 PM

How about some pictures of the other boat that you are looking at? Do you have experience in doing a refit and restoration? And have you called Jan or Meade Gougeon yet and have you puchased the book "The Gougeon Brother on Boat Construction? Just some quick thoughts on the subject.



#12 ropetrick

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:49 PM


From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?



Here is a link to the Kaufman 46 for sale
http://proto2.yachtw...ng_id=1768&url=


You will only need twice as much money.

And twice as much crew.

#13 pasta514

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 06:52 PM

There is something to be said for the beauty of a wooden hull. Sounds like you've been bit like this guy was.

#14 sledracr

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:50 PM

There is something to be said for the beauty of a wooden hull. Sounds like you've been bit like this guy was.


Should probably read through this thread, too... http://forums.sailin...howtopic=117372

#15 KiwiJoker

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:37 PM


There is something to be said for the beauty of a wooden hull. Sounds like you've been bit like this guy was.


Should probably read through this thread, too... http://forums.sailin...howtopic=117372

Wow! Thanks for the link. Yours is not just a "should probably" suggestion. It should be "mandatory read three times!"

#16 Tripper dave

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Posted 11 March 2012 - 11:57 PM

From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?


Yes, fire your broker and get someone who actually listens to you and has your interests in mind rather than selling his buddies' problems.

#17 mkgsailor

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 12:25 AM

From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?


I have a lot of thoughts on the Kaufman, I grew up on that boat. The boat is my dad's, and hasn't been raced regularly since around 2000 ish. We did do the 100th mac on it in 2009. It is a great boat, and if I could afford the dockage and sails, it would be mine. I do not believe the teak deck needs to be replaced. The teak is very thick, and to my knowledge there is no rotting, except on the floor of the forward cockpit. There is certainly work needed down below. Growing up we would do all the local and distance racing, and usually take 1 or 2 weeks after the mac to bring the boat home. In my book, this is the perfect boat for a family who would like to do some distance racing and cruising. It is a very comfortable cruiser, with some speed too. PHRF rating is 54.About the only thing I agree with your broker about is the single handed idea. That would be a lot of boat for 1. We did a few double handed races (muskegon to port washington). That was managable. He has roller furling and auto pilot to help with short handed stuff.
If you have any questions about it, feel free to email me. brad.schottke at gmail dot com



#18 Richard N

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:49 AM

How about some pictures of the other boat that you are looking at? Do you have experience in doing a refit and restoration? And have you called Jan or Meade Gougeon yet and have you puchased the book "The Gougeon Brother on Boat Construction? Just some quick thoughts on the subject.



Seaching Amazon now. I am an engineering student with 10 of construction experience. I want to construct our my boat in the future and thought this would be a interesting way to learn and grow my expereince. I don't have any pics but I'm going out there this coming weekend to take some pics. This thing is gorgeous, of course if you look past the pealing varnish. It has a interesting walk up transom and you can see it's had some repairs in the past. Now when I was talking to the guy at the boat yard he said he didn't know if Gougeon built it but he knows that who ever did used their process. Once I get pics I intend on posting them here and sending them off to Jan and Meade to see if they have any thoughts. If I can get it for the right price (free.99) and it is sound structurally I think I may pick it up. I realize she wont splash for a few years but I can cope with that. The thing I like about a complete refit inside and out is that I can have things however I want. I'll need to remove the keel anyway to re-seat it so that will make it easier to ship half way across the state. I can't stop thinking about it, I had great sailing dream last night :D

#19 Richard N

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:50 AM

There is something to be said for the beauty of a wooden hull. Sounds like you've been bit like this guy was.


I think you're right

#20 Amati

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:52 AM

Blew

Only

Another

Thousand.


Hence, Boat Unit.


:lol:

#21 Richard N

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 02:55 AM


From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?


Yes, fire your broker and get someone who actually listens to you and has your interests in mind rather than selling his buddies' problems.


I'm still pissed off. The bloke I spoke to told me the tell my broker to fuck off and just check the yard for boats and chat with some of the owners to get some of the inside information about other local boats. Every time I said racing boat he would tell me I don't want to go that fast, I want to cruise, I want to take it easy, I need a tub. I just wanted to write all my wants down on a sheet of paper and cram it down his chow hole. If two 70 year olds and handle this design, I think a couple guys in their late 20's can manage...

#22 Richard N

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 03:10 AM


From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?


I have a lot of thoughts on the Kaufman, I grew up on that boat. The boat is my dad's, and hasn't been raced regularly since around 2000 ish. We did do the 100th mac on it in 2009. It is a great boat, and if I could afford the dockage and sails, it would be mine. I do not believe the teak deck needs to be replaced. The teak is very thick, and to my knowledge there is no rotting, except on the floor of the forward cockpit. There is certainly work needed down below. Growing up we would do all the local and distance racing, and usually take 1 or 2 weeks after the mac to bring the boat home. In my book, this is the perfect boat for a family who would like to do some distance racing and cruising. It is a very comfortable cruiser, with some speed too. PHRF rating is 54.About the only thing I agree with your broker about is the single handed idea. That would be a lot of boat for 1. We did a few double handed races (muskegon to port washington). That was managable. He has roller furling and auto pilot to help with short handed stuff.
If you have any questions about it, feel free to email me. brad.schottke at gmail dot com



I've been in love with Brass Tacks for so long now, it is the wallpaper on my desktop. The problem is that there is water up to the floor and completely frozen, the keel must be re-seated, the teak looks rough but i doesn't "look" like it needs to be replaced- just a load of sanding and varnish, it had been completely uncovered since November and there are some major deck leaks that may have caused some serious damage to the core. All the portholes leak and there are leaks at the chain plates. There is a guy 2 boats down in the same yard (the one I keep mentioning) who said he has admired it for years and explained that the LWL isn't actually the 'real' LWL, when healing it can gain upward of 5 feet due to the swooping transom design. The interior layout is perfect for that I need. I'm curious about the condition of the sails and would like to see an survey if there is one.

#23 sam_crocker

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:02 AM

The Gougeon book is available as a free download. I'm on a crappy android tablet right now so getting a link for you is too painful. But if you go search Fixit anarchy I'm sure you'll find it.

#24 Richard N

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 05:43 AM

The Gougeon book is available as a free download. I'm on a crappy android tablet right now so getting a link for you is too painful. But if you go search Fixit anarchy I'm sure you'll find it.


Fantastic! Thank you sir :) I'll search that way

#25 sam_crocker

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:20 AM

Found the link

Note also that they have some repair manuals for free as well. Go to the pinned thread at the top of the fixit forum. Those will be helpful.

#26 Richard N

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

Found the link

Note also that they have some repair manuals for free as well. Go to the pinned thread at the top of the fixit forum. Those will be helpful.


Those were what I thought you were talking about till you shard the like of the 400 page monster. Now that's a book! Thanks so much for the link.

#27 Richard N

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 06:11 PM

I emailed Torresen on saturday, I'm hoping to hear back sometime today.

#28 Tripper dave

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 09:46 PM



From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?


Yes, fire your broker and get someone who actually listens to you and has your interests in mind rather than selling his buddies' problems.


I'm still pissed off. The bloke I spoke to told me the tell my broker to fuck off and just check the yard for boats and chat with some of the owners to get some of the inside information about other local boats. Every time I said racing boat he would tell me I don't want to go that fast, I want to cruise, I want to take it easy, I need a tub. I just wanted to write all my wants down on a sheet of paper and cram it down his chow hole. If two 70 year olds and handle this design, I think a couple guys in their late 20's can manage...


Dude, you don't need a broker to find you a boat.
I have bought all 3 of my boats by first doing searches on the net (a lot easier now than 10 years ago!) and then going and looking at the likely candidates. When I was ready to make a deal, I did it conditional on survey and got a qualified surveyor to do a complete examination. I have had very good luck getting what I needed at very good prices. BE YOUR OWN BROKER!

#29 fetzer24

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 02:04 AM

Was the woody Hocus Pocus?

#30 Richard N

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:38 PM

Was the woody Hocus Pocus?


Ya, i'm wondering what the yard is planning for it or the owner for that matter.

#31 Richard N

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 05:40 PM




From what I understand, they may just want to get rid of it. Money it's a big issue. I'd rather have refitted Gougeon than a brand new big brand boat. We figured we'd take the boat. put it in our storage barn and start to whittle away at it. When I spoke to the gent at the boatyard he was adamant that if we didn't get it in a climate controlled area that once we started replacing rot we'd never catch up with it. I also is a hell of a lot easier to work on it in the winter.

We had found a Kaufman 46 - Brass Tacks in Muskegon too that is just amazing. It needs to have the keel set and needs all new teak and some interior work and perhaps a new mast and they're asking 65k, I can get them down to 30k under their current circumstances. The trouble is my broker who I was looking to for guidance keeps trying to talk me into tub cruisers when I want a racer with a couple of features. "Brass Tacks is a handfull" "You don't want to go that fast" "You could never single hand that" "You don't want to get into the MAC race, go on someone else's boat" This is the shit he's telling me. Come to find out he's also in the club i'm joining which makes things a little awkward.

Any thought on the Kaufman?


Yes, fire your broker and get someone who actually listens to you and has your interests in mind rather than selling his buddies' problems.


I'm still pissed off. The bloke I spoke to told me the tell my broker to fuck off and just check the yard for boats and chat with some of the owners to get some of the inside information about other local boats. Every time I said racing boat he would tell me I don't want to go that fast, I want to cruise, I want to take it easy, I need a tub. I just wanted to write all my wants down on a sheet of paper and cram it down his chow hole. If two 70 year olds and handle this design, I think a couple guys in their late 20's can manage...


Dude, you don't need a broker to find you a boat.
I have bought all 3 of my boats by first doing searches on the net (a lot easier now than 10 years ago!) and then going and looking at the likely candidates. When I was ready to make a deal, I did it conditional on survey and got a qualified surveyor to do a complete examination. I have had very good luck getting what I needed at very good prices. BE YOUR OWN BROKER!


That's what the bloke at the boat yard told me to do. I was only looking to a broker for guidance but that didn't really pan out. The guy who has no stake in my purchase has been more help, not to mention you guys.

#32 islandgoat2010

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:22 PM


Was the woody Hocus Pocus?


Ya, i'm wondering what the yard is planning for it or the owner for that matter.


Richard, you're aware that fetzer24 is the yard?

#33 fetzer24

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:12 PM

Boat is not owned by the yard. It's been owned by the same guy for 20+ years. He stays relatively current on his bills but it hasn't seen the water in quite a few years.

One word.....rotten.







Was the woody Hocus Pocus?


Ya, i'm wondering what the yard is planning for it or the owner for that matter.


Richard, you're aware that fetzer24 is the yard?



#34 barleymalt

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:46 PM

Advance/chainsaw into the dumpster rotten, or possible for a young guy willing to work his ass off and do his own repairs rotten?.

Richard

A 46 foot boat of that era is a load to race. Big, heavy, big loads, comparatively slow. Sails, maintenance, parts, dockage all will be a lot of money compared to smaller and more modern racer cruisers, and it could easily be the money pit you walk away from several years and a house worth of money later that is the investment quality of hookers and blow.

If you are serious, spend the cash for a competent and independent surveyor familiar with WEST boats to take a good look at it and tell you exactly what needs to be fixed, and how much it will cost, and whether it is something you can do yourself. I like the WEST built woodies a ton too, but you need to be sure it is something you can take on.

#35 BarePoles

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 09:49 PM

Late 20's and you want a 46' slow ass wood boat that's in need of serious repair!?

Dude, get a freaking Viper and travel with the circuit. Just my 2cents.

#36 Richard N

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:01 AM

No, I didn't realize that fetzer24 was the yard. It is such a shame that the woodie has gone to hell. It's such a stunning vessel. Is something of that style, less being a woodie a complete waste? I would like to spend <75k right now so and I liked the style and layout of Brass Tacks. So that's something that will be slow compared to a more modern boat and far to much to handle for a smaller crew. I'd like something with some room and with some speed. I have a boat in mind but I couldn't possibly handle the ridicule that would accompany it. The cost of dock/storage fees isn't much of a concern to me but maintenance and replacement/retrofit of equipment would be a concern. I'd like to be between 40ft and 50ft. Although what I truly want is certainly more than I can afford, but I suppose that's universal. A member of the yacht club I interested in joining owns the 50' Soverel Custom 50 Free, that I'm interested in but is a bit more than I'd like to spend. I spoke briefly with him about the boat and he offered to show me. Although it wouldn't be much more monthly allowing for a 20yr boat mortgage (approx. $650 per month). I imagine my ignorance can be very frustrating and I appreciate you guys bearing with me.


I added a like to the listing of 50 Free for your inspection. 50 Free
I also found a Farr 40 for around 20k. It's not completely bare bones. Thoughts? Farr 40



Thanks guys,
Richard







#37 Richard N

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:07 AM

Late 20's and you want a 46' slow ass wood boat that's in need of serious repair!?

Dude, get a freaking Viper and travel with the circuit. Just my 2cents.


A Viper would be a freaking blast but I'd like something that I can take family out on. Be would be fantastic as a kick ass secondary race boat and something that wouldn't require anything but me and the wind.

#38 Richard N

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 05:23 AM

Another boat at Torresen that I thought interesting for around 20k
Fire Water


Oh and did I mention I'm 6'4", I'd like something I can fit in too...

#39 fetzer24

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:47 AM

Brass Tacks is a pretty good value right now. You'll have a hard time finding that much boat for those dollars. It has a few issues that need to be addressed but it seems like it's ready to go sailing tomorrow from what I remember.

Hocus Pocus is a good looking boat but when those cold molded boats go rotten it is nearly impossible to bring them back. That thing has spots where you can stick a pen knife right through it.



No, I didn't realize that fetzer24 was the yard. It is such a shame that the woodie has gone to hell. It's such a stunning vessel. Is something of that style, less being a woodie a complete waste? I would like to spend <75k right now so and I liked the style and layout of Brass Tacks. So that's something that will be slow compared to a more modern boat and far to much to handle for a smaller crew. I'd like something with some room and with some speed. I have a boat in mind but I couldn't possibly handle the ridicule that would accompany it. The cost of dock/storage fees isn't much of a concern to me but maintenance and replacement/retrofit of equipment would be a concern. I'd like to be between 40ft and 50ft. Although what I truly want is certainly more than I can afford, but I suppose that's universal. A member of the yacht club I interested in joining owns the 50' Soverel Custom 50 Free, that I'm interested in but is a bit more than I'd like to spend. I spoke briefly with him about the boat and he offered to show me. Although it wouldn't be much more monthly allowing for a 20yr boat mortgage (approx. $650 per month). I imagine my ignorance can be very frustrating and I appreciate you guys bearing with me.

I added a like to the listing of 50 Free for your inspection. 50 Free
I also found a Farr 40 for around 20k. It's not completely bare bones. Thoughts? Farr 40


Thanks guys,
Richard





#40 Murphness

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

No, I didn't realize that fetzer24 was the yard. It is such a shame that the woodie has gone to hell. It's such a stunning vessel. Is something of that style, less being a woodie a complete waste? I would like to spend <75k right now so and I liked the style and layout of Brass Tacks. So that's something that will be slow compared to a more modern boat and far to much to handle for a smaller crew. I'd like something with some room and with some speed. I have a boat in mind but I couldn't possibly handle the ridicule that would accompany it. The cost of dock/storage fees isn't much of a concern to me but maintenance and replacement/retrofit of equipment would be a concern. I'd like to be between 40ft and 50ft. Although what I truly want is certainly more than I can afford, but I suppose that's universal. A member of the yacht club I interested in joining owns the 50' Soverel Custom 50 Free, that I'm interested in but is a bit more than I'd like to spend. I spoke briefly with him about the boat and he offered to show me. Although it wouldn't be much more monthly allowing for a 20yr boat mortgage (approx. $650 per month). I imagine my ignorance can be very frustrating and I appreciate you guys bearing with me.

I added a like to the listing of 50 Free for your inspection. 50 Free
I also found a Farr 40 for around 20k. It's not completely bare bones. Thoughts? Farr 40


Thanks guys,
Richard




Money must not be an issue? To race these boats you need 10+ people (I have a hard time getting 3 regularly). A freaking snap shackle costs $300 for a boat this size, never mind a new #1 or mainsail. I share your love for old IOR design boats and I'm dying for one, but you need to be VERY well off to maintain them in race trim, or even cruising trim for that matter. Your yearly boat budget (once it's actually refit) would be well over 20K if you're going to race it competitively, that would include a major upgrade every 2 seasons....

I'm guessing I'm close in age (29) and I bought my first boat last season (with a buddy). After looking at all of the costs associated, and what I wanted to get out of it, I bought a Thunderbird....Unless you're making well over 200K a year or have some old money I highly suggest you start with a smaller boat to get a feel for all of the hidden expenses. Boat ownership, while liberating, is EXPENSIVE. Costs go up exponentially once you're over ~30'. The boats you've mentioned are my "if I win 300 million in the lottery" project boats....Someone mentioned the Flirt thread earlier. Take a good look at what that guy has done and try and figure out the cost. He may even tell you. It's gotta be well over 100K in materials, never mind the 100's of hours of labor.

I'm rooting for you, Dude! If you can really pull it off I'm jealous....

Cheers,

Murphness

#41 Ticked

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:22 PM

Richard, have you joined a Yacht club yet?
Lots of free advice to be had there! (Just rember to have your bs filter on.)
I suggest checking out Muskegon YC this Thurday night, or 3/28 for a race seminar @ 5:30.

One last piece of advice....buy lots of insurance, we will thank you later!


Ticklish

#42 ALittleLoose

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:12 PM

Best advice ... If you are in a hurry to buy a big boat, don't!

Sounds like this will be your first?

Join the club, Commit to an owner that has a boat that like the one you want. Spend a year working and crewing on the boat with his money.

After one year you'll realize why everyone on this site is giving you the go slow advice.

BUT ... If you are in a big hurry and have to buy it now, it'll likely end up as scrap within 5-6 years and you'll be out 100-150k.

I crewed on my first boat for 2.5 years before buying it. No surprises, no regrets after 15 years of ownership.

#43 Danziger

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 03:42 PM

I'm guessing I'm close in age (29) and I bought my first boat last season (with a buddy). After looking at all of the costs associated, and what I wanted to get out of it, I bought a Thunderbird....Unless you're making well over 200K a year or have some old money I highly suggest you start with a smaller boat to get a feel for all of the hidden expenses. Boat ownership, while liberating, is EXPENSIVE. Costs go up exponentially once you're over ~30'. The boats you've mentioned are my "if I win 300 million in the lottery" project boats....Someone mentioned the Flirt thread earlier. Take a good look at what that guy has done and try and figure out the cost. He may even tell you. It's gotta be well over 100K in materials, never mind the 100's of hours of labor.

I'm rooting for you, Dude! If you can really pull it off I'm jealous....

Cheers,

Murphness


Don't listen to him.

I bought my first boat at the age of 29. It was a cold moulded 38 feet 1-ton from the 70ies, a beauty in orange and mahogany, with 2 (!) companionways. It was cheap and rotten. The first lesson was that I had to invest the same amount again for basic repairs. That was after 2 years. After another 3 years I decided to get a new rig, a new engine was necessary, etc.. By then (after 6 years) I fourfold the initial purchase price. 5 years later I found out that a monster mushroom has eaten the whole deck and cockpit. This was the time I had to decide to dump the boat - or not. Luckily I got little kids and so there was no real time (and money) left for the old bugger. She went on the hard.

I asked 2 friend to join the ownership - for free. They were insane enough to to this. Today she is in a better state than new and a rare contemporary witness of her time - a dream in orange and mahogany. I now own a 40.7 and my family enjoys the bathroom, the hot water, the fridge, not to mention the heating.

The journey to the 40.7 could have been much shorter, less bumpy and much, much less expensive. But do I want to miss all the great times on that old-timer, the dismasting in the Baltic Sea, the many breakdowns of the engine, the massive water inside on the North Sea - no!

Go and make the mistakes yourself!

Hans

#44 BarePoles

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:27 PM

No, I didn't realize that fetzer24 was the yard. It is such a shame that the woodie has gone to hell. It's such a stunning vessel. Is something of that style, less being a woodie a complete waste? I would like to spend <75k right now so and I liked the style and layout of Brass Tacks. So that's something that will be slow compared to a more modern boat and far to much to handle for a smaller crew. I'd like something with some room and with some speed. I have a boat in mind but I couldn't possibly handle the ridicule that would accompany it. The cost of dock/storage fees isn't much of a concern to me but maintenance and replacement/retrofit of equipment would be a concern. I'd like to be between 40ft and 50ft. Although what I truly want is certainly more than I can afford, but I suppose that's universal. A member of the yacht club I interested in joining owns the 50' Soverel Custom 50 Free, that I'm interested in but is a bit more than I'd like to spend. I spoke briefly with him about the boat and he offered to show me. Although it wouldn't be much more monthly allowing for a 20yr boat mortgage (approx. $650 per month). I imagine my ignorance can be very frustrating and I appreciate you guys bearing with me.


I added a like to the listing of 50 Free for your inspection. 50 Free
I also found a Farr 40 for around 20k. It's not completely bare bones. Thoughts? Farr 40



Thanks guys,
Richard







There is a great Express 37 in the classifieds that is fast and could be a decent cruiser for the family. List at 75k, race/cruising ready. Just a thought.

#45 triciarob

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 02:29 AM

Found the link

Note also that they have some repair manuals for free as well. Go to the pinned thread at the top of the fixit forum. Those will be helpful.


Is this link only available in the U S? I've been trying to down load but just getting a blank page.

#46 Richard N

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:27 AM

Thank you guys for all the advice. I will take it to heart. I want a boat now and we make a pretty health income (a doctor and a business owner). The idea of 20k in cost on top of slip and storage seems a little overwhelming but it would be a manageable number. I may have to wait rather than making a 100k mistake. Brass Tacks has a few hull issues that I'd want to adress in order to be good to go and also to reseat the keel. We figure we might buy something like a lil' Pearson p26 for cheap just to get out there and play on everyone else's boat. Crewing other boats would allow me to "test drive" and get a idea of what I want. So I suppose I'm not going to die if I don't have a great boat this season.

We went to the open house for MYC and I really liked it. My friend may be doing the new website, we'll probably know after tomorrow's board meeting (fingers crossed). I like what I saw and it seemed quite reasonable priceless and of course you're always going to have to have your BS detector on. I can also save a bit of money by just getting a associate membership to start. Bay Harbor would be a little to uptight and we thought we'd check out Macatawa Bay Yacht Club as well but I think MYC will be the best option. Holland, Muskegon, Saugatuck, Grand Haven and most other western Michigan harbors are all about the same distance from me with in 3 minutes of each other. MYC has quite a few people involved in the Chicago Mac race and we've already had a few offers to go out with some people there. In fact, I'm sure there are a quite a few members on SA.

#47 Richard N

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:46 AM

Richard, have you joined a Yacht club yet?
Lots of free advice to be had there! (Just rember to have your bs filter on.)
I suggest checking out Muskegon YC this Thurday night, or 3/28 for a race seminar @ 5:30.

One last piece of advice....buy lots of insurance, we will thank you later!


Ticklish


I really want to attend the seminar. I know they have a meeting tmrw, did they have something else going on too? I'm thinking this weekend or next I may go get my associate membership for the time being. I spoke to quite a few people and they seem to like it and I know membership is up quite a bit since Harbor Town Yacht Club closed down so there are quite a few extra opinions around. lol Even if I don't have a boat I'd like to be there to help everyone splash this season help out in any way I can. People are much more open to new people when the new people bring beer. LMAO

#48 Bobbo.bob

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:16 AM

Late 20's and you want a 46' slow ass wood boat that's in need of serious repair!?

Dude, get a freaking Viper and travel with the circuit. Just my 2cents.



#49 White Wing

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:15 AM


No, I didn't realize that fetzer24 was the yard. It is such a shame that the woodie has gone to hell. It's such a stunning vessel. Is something of that style, less being a woodie a complete waste? I would like to spend <75k right now so and I liked the style and layout of Brass Tacks. So that's something that will be slow compared to a more modern boat and far to much to handle for a smaller crew. I'd like something with some room and with some speed. I have a boat in mind but I couldn't possibly handle the ridicule that would accompany it. The cost of dock/storage fees isn't much of a concern to me but maintenance and replacement/retrofit of equipment would be a concern. I'd like to be between 40ft and 50ft. Although what I truly want is certainly more than I can afford, but I suppose that's universal. A member of the yacht club I interested in joining owns the 50' Soverel Custom 50 Free, that I'm interested in but is a bit more than I'd like to spend. I spoke briefly with him about the boat and he offered to show me. Although it wouldn't be much more monthly allowing for a 20yr boat mortgage (approx. $650 per month). I imagine my ignorance can be very frustrating and I appreciate you guys bearing with me.

I added a like to the listing of 50 Free for your inspection. 50 Free
I also found a Farr 40 for around 20k. It's not completely bare bones. Thoughts? Farr 40

Thanks guys,
Richard


There is a great Express 37 in the classifieds that is fast and could be a decent cruiser for the family. List at 75k, race/cruising ready. Just a thought.


Give the Express 37 some serious thought - very nice boat to sail...light enough that loads aren't huge and you can sail it FAST and FUN. Several here in the NW and owners *love* them. Great boat to figure out what you want longer term too....pretty sure you'd have head room down below as well, although you're going to find bunk length a problem regardless of the boat.

WWing



#50 Lfhobie

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:23 PM

Did anyone ever get a survey on Brass tacks ? Seems like a beautiful boat and is still available although now at a lowered price ?

#51 Lfhobie

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Posted 05 December 2012 - 02:59 PM

Did anyone ever get a survey on Brass tacks ? Seems like a beautiful boat and is still available although now at a lowered price ?




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