Jump to content


VOR Leg 5


  • Please log in to reply
2146 replies to this topic

#301 clamslapper

clamslapper

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 678 posts
  • Location:Marblehead, MA

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:30 AM

"My understanding is that the bulkhead in question is not structural to the boat per se, rather it just gives the the requisite strongpoint"

In other words, it's an essential structural element... if you want to use that sail as intended

I think it would have been a very hard repair to effect at sea in those conditions. It's the roughest part of the boat, and bailing wire and duct tape won't do when carefully laid up carbon fiber and epoxy are called for...


No matter what other drivel we might read on here, this comment is right on. There is just no way that Groupama or even Tele would have turned around and taken all that mileage on the chin. No way. They want to win too goddamned much to just fork over free miles without a fight. Cammas is an engineer and they would have gotten out the duct tape and bailing wire and made do.

My understanding is that the bulkhead in question is not structural to the boat per se, rather it just gives the the requisite strongpoint, via a strop up to the deck, to mount the tack of the much-desired-on-this-leg J4. Yes, it sucks that it popped out. But for thousands of years sailors have jury-rigged stuff at sea. Worst comes to worse, carry the J4 on the regular jib tack -- it's only 3-4 feet forward of the J4 tack -- while the epoxy dries. Yes, ADOR would have gone a little slower with their sail rigged incorrectly for those hours. They were not in physical danger as a result of the failure (which would always be cause for heading for port); the boat just wouldn't go as fast without the J4 set up correctly. And yes, the boat is hugely bouncing around and effecting a repair up in the bow would have been a huge pain in the neck.

But for crying out loud, they have just given up 600 MILES!!! That is insane. It's not even yacht racing. I don't know what to call it. I mean, literally, why even bother?




As one of the other posters said, they could have used another tack fitting. The J4 tack fitting is a couple/few feet back from the stem. They could have used the fitting right at the stem, and hoisted the J4 from there. Sure, it is not the correct way to fly the sail and it will be angled back a few degrees and the lead position has to be moved forward somehow, but you have to be kidding if they thought it was worth 600 miles. If they lost one knot of boat speed and used the J4 constantly, 600 miles is almost a month of sailing. Additionally, they have several other sails to choose from. Anyhow, surely there would be at least one relatively smooth day and they could have glued the bulkhead back in. To your question, the boat doesn't need one of those bulkheads in order to stay together, it just transfers the load for the tack fitting there into the hull. I realize this is a pretty scary leg, but that's just hyperconservatism on Abu Dhabi's part -- not even close to a good enough reason to turn back and lose so much mileage.

#302 Beachcomber

Beachcomber

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 64 posts
  • Location:Indianapolis

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:41 AM

As one of the other posters said, they could have used another tack fitting. The J4 tack fitting is a couple/few feet back from the stem. They could have used the fitting right at the stem, and hoisted the J4 from there. Sure, it is not the correct way to fly the sail and it will be angled back a few degrees and the lead position has to be moved forward somehow, but you have to be kidding if they thought it was worth 600 miles. If they lost one knot of boat speed and used the J4 constantly, 600 miles is almost a month of sailing. Additionally, they have several other sails to choose from. Anyhow, surely there would be at least one relatively smooth day and they could have glued the bulkhead back in. To your question, the boat doesn't need one of those bulkheads in order to stay together, it just transfers the load for the tack fitting there into the hull. I realize this is a pretty scary leg, but that's just hyperconservatism on Abu Dhabi's part -- not even close to a good enough reason to turn back and lose so much mileage.


Wow, thanks for sharing your brilliance with us!

/Didn't realize I'd asked a question.

#303 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:44 AM

What a manic couple of days. Crazy sailing.

I hope the Puma blokes are OK.

It will be interesting to see how far south they get before they get to turn the corner.

#304 Carboninit

Carboninit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,169 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

Abu back on track ,from 600 to 400 thats more like it. Now get that friggin hammer down.

#305 corkob

corkob

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location:The Sovereigns
  • Interests:Monohull Offshore racing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:09 AM

That's only the distance from Lands End to John o Groats!

#306 freddy

freddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:42 AM

Abu back on track ,from 600 to 400 thats more like it. Now get that friggin hammer down.


Yesterday night the deficit was up to something like 750 miles, now it seems to be something like 400 - is this the f****d up way VOR report these things, because it doesn't look like they have been going 29kts quicker than the other boats overnight?!

#307 Potter

Potter

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 912 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:46 AM


Abu back on track ,from 600 to 400 thats more like it. Now get that friggin hammer down.


Yesterday night the deficit was up to something like 750 miles, now it seems to be something like 400 - is this the f****d up way VOR report these things, because it doesn't look like they have been going 29kts quicker than the other boats overnight?!

Whatever the actual truth of the matter I have never yet seen a Round the World Race that gets it completely right. I can only guess that the maths is pretty complex, adn obviously always depends upon where they are mesuring to.

Looking at the weather I think Abu may have just caught a break and will have a faster next 24 hours than the rest of the fleet with an easier transition. We could see that mileage drop dramatically in the next 24 hrs. That said, when you are chasing it is always likely that they will get away again, and Abu Dhabi have not exactly shown that they are likely to catch up and lead...

#308 Carboninit

Carboninit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,169 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:33 AM

Abu will win this leg ,does it matter if I get it wrong ! does it shit.And while we are on the subject of shit,It must be very hard to have a dump at those speeds.Would you go over the back or down below.Over the back does have its advantages , no paper required. Film that Volvo.

#309 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:52 AM

Abu Dhabi will be loving this. There's a 1000 mile long high pressure road block in front of the fleet. It's a dream come true if you're trying to play catch up. By the time they get to where the fleet is now the high will have moved north and they can cut the corner in a big way.

Camper and Telefonica should slowly dial up to keep rumble on as the pressure drops. It'll be interesting to see if either Groupama or Puma try to cut the corner.

Camper are taking the longer, faster route - might work, might not. It's very hard to judge how fast a system like that is moving. The Kiwis will be able to heat up a bit as the breeze drops off and may gain some miles back. Once on the other side of the system they'll also be able to put the bow down more. Trade off is that they sail further.

I'd say there will be some big losers and winners in the next 12 hours.

Telefonica are very well positioned, as lead boat they have to aim for the point where they can make the best transition and hope for the best. They handle the pressure of these situations very well - a bit of a tactical education for those of us that love our ocean racing.

It's fun to follow this race.

#310 heinz

heinz

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:12 AM

As one of the other posters said, they could have used another tack fitting. The J4 tack fitting is a couple/few feet back from the stem. They could have used the fitting right at the stem, and hoisted the J4 from there. Sure, it is not the correct way to fly the sail and it will be angled back a few degrees and the lead position has to be moved forward somehow, but you have to be kidding if they thought it was worth 600 miles. If they lost one knot of boat speed and used the J4 constantly, 600 miles is almost a month of sailing. Additionally, they have several other sails to choose from. Anyhow, surely there would be at least one relatively smooth day and they could have glued the bulkhead back in. To your question, the boat doesn't need one of those bulkheads in order to stay together, it just transfers the load for the tack fitting there into the hull. I realize this is a pretty scary leg, but that's just hyperconservatism on Abu Dhabi's part -- not even close to a good enough reason to turn back and lose so much mileage.



The reason for turning back as explained by Ian Walker; http://www.thenation...and-for-repairs
Only the finish line will show if it was a right decision...

#311 gybe-ho!

gybe-ho!

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,344 posts
  • Location:Curled up in the lee of Bum Island

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:14 AM

Posted on Facebook 7mins ago from VOR:

Race followers may have noted some anomalies in race data today. The sea state has affected the transmission of data from Abu Dhabi Ocean Racing, resulting in inaccurate measurements overnight. In combination with this an adjustment of the ice limits distorted the distance to leader and finish data. We have since amended the way we calculate this data, which should solve the problem.

#312 gybe-ho!

gybe-ho!

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,344 posts
  • Location:Curled up in the lee of Bum Island

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:20 AM


As one of the other posters said, they could have used another tack fitting. The J4 tack fitting is a couple/few feet back from the stem. They could have used the fitting right at the stem, and hoisted the J4 from there. Sure, it is not the correct way to fly the sail and it will be angled back a few degrees and the lead position has to be moved forward somehow, but you have to be kidding if they thought it was worth 600 miles. If they lost one knot of boat speed and used the J4 constantly, 600 miles is almost a month of sailing. Additionally, they have several other sails to choose from. Anyhow, surely there would be at least one relatively smooth day and they could have glued the bulkhead back in. To your question, the boat doesn't need one of those bulkheads in order to stay together, it just transfers the load for the tack fitting there into the hull. I realize this is a pretty scary leg, but that's just hyperconservatism on Abu Dhabi's part -- not even close to a good enough reason to turn back and lose so much mileage.



The reason for turning back as explained by Ian Walker; http://www.thenation...and-for-repairs
Only the finish line will show if it was a right decision...


Well there you go, Bubsy wasn't confident about glueing it back in at sea in the conditions, it had damaged systems around the area, likely to be in the J4 for 80% of the leg. Had they been a week in, they'd have (had to) carried on.

#313 heinz

heinz

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 3 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

Well there you go, Bubsy wasn't confident about glueing it back in at sea in the conditions, it had damaged systems around the area, likely to be in the J4 for 80% of the leg. Had they been a week in, they'd have (had to) carried on.


After breaking a mast in Leg1 with the J4 up... would you tackle the southern ocean with J4 bulkhead glued back in place in those sea conditions?

#314 nixon

nixon

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 205 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:31 AM

Hi Paradox or Expedition, can you please do another Expedition run with the current (present) forecast and positions. Inquiring minds and all that... Very keen to see what the ridge means for ADOR and what impact the new ice sidelines mean routing-wise.

Thanks very much. :)

#315 gybe-ho!

gybe-ho!

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,344 posts
  • Location:Curled up in the lee of Bum Island

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:47 AM



Well there you go, Bubsy wasn't confident about glueing it back in at sea in the conditions, it had damaged systems around the area, likely to be in the J4 for 80% of the leg. Had they been a week in, they'd have (had to) carried on.


After breaking a mast in Leg1 with the J4 up... would you tackle the southern ocean with J4 bulkhead glued back in place in those sea conditions?


I have to agree with you, you'd have to be pretty certain it was a spot on job to trust it if done at sea and as we know, it's never that when done in those conditions.

#316 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:50 AM

Hi Paradox or Expedition, can you please do another Expedition run with the current (present) forecast and positions. Inquiring minds and all that... Very keen to see what the ridge means for ADOR and what impact the new ice sidelines mean routing-wise.

Thanks very much. :)


Are you sure you need it? You can't just picture them sailing through the soft zone and then tearing off to the ice gate?

#317 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:03 AM

Ok - here is Camper route. Same caveat - dodgy polars, no currents, GFS model, etc.

It's going to be awesome once they break through the light patch.

The route is still saying to skirt the ice gate. Going more north will force them to sail further at hotter angles.

Attached File  vor leg 5 routing 2.jpg   574.63K   120 downloads

Edit - wind shown is now, look at the barbs on the route for the predicted weather.

Usually any forecast outside of 2 days is complete fantasy!

#318 Port Tack Approach

Port Tack Approach

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 733 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 12:40 PM

Iker & Xabi training 49er just 2 days after arrival in Auckland... (sorry in spanish) http://nauta360.expa...1331903365.html

This may be their last olympics and they are doig their best to be there in good condition. Even if your body ask for some rest after Leg 4 :blink:

One of the dudes who beat Iker and Xabi to the gold the last go in China just hopped on Sanya for the in-port and leg 4.

#319 STYACHT

STYACHT

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,460 posts
  • Location:Amsterdam

Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:45 PM


Stu Bannatyne: "Without a shadow of a doubt that was the hardest opening night of a Volvo leg I have ever done."
from here. OK, so it was pretty full on.


He actually said one of the toughest, not the toughest.


Right, went back and heard same. I named my source at least...
I think somebody else was quoted as saying it was the worst 24 hr period he'd had. Yep, it was Nico here

Just sayin' it has been pretty full on. I can tell you few boats in the world can take that kind of beating.

#320 schakel

schakel

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,024 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 01:55 PM

Anyone agrees that if Groupama wins this leg from Telephonica they make a good chance for the overall win?

#321 edelweis

edelweis

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 568 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 02:09 PM

Anyone agrees that if Groupama wins this leg from Telephonica they make a good chance for the overall win?


Agreed and hope so!

My bet for first to Western Ice Limit:
1. Tele
2. Groupama
3. Puma
4. Camper (- and there will be NO excuse of a slower boat)

#322 briseis

briseis

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 18 posts
  • Location:Europe
  • Interests:Offshore

Posted 20 March 2012 - 03:01 PM

Tompe Johanson has a dislocated shoulder on Puma. What a bummer and probably quite hard to relocate while the boat is banging in heavy seas!

#323 smackdaddy

smackdaddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,683 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:24 PM

Tompe Johanson has a dislocated shoulder on Puma. What a bummer and probably quite hard to relocate while the boat is banging in heavy seas!


He's back and at it actually. Saw a report where he actually went back on the helm. That's some grit.

Casey Smith, though, doesn't sound so good. Backs don't usually heal up that quickly. So, apparently, he may be chucked at the Horn.

#324 supine

supine

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,321 posts
  • Location:Frankfurt/Main, Germany

Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:24 PM

Camper seems to be better positioned going into the high. Be interesting to see the next couple of scheds, see what position they are in when the breeze kicks in 12-18 hours from now.

#325 dlangpap

dlangpap

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 156 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:05 PM


Anyone agrees that if Groupama wins this leg from Telephonica they make a good chance for the overall win?


Agreed and hope so!

My bet for first to Western Ice Limit:
1. Tele
2. Groupama
3. Puma
4. Camper (- and there will be NO excuse of a slower boat)


Yep, I think they are the best bet to beat Tlf for the overall. Cool, low-key crew.

#326 fsans

fsans

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • Location:Barcelona

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:11 PM

Telefonica would have broken the masthead but has repaired this morning.
Cape: "...We broke our masthead unit and lost windspeed and direction and stuff for a bit, but we replaced that today, but that was no problem."

Edit: and added: "We’ve been very lucky"

#327 Andres Aavik

Andres Aavik

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Location:Estonia
  • Interests:Sailing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 05:21 PM

Camper will soon have to start picking fights with Sanya instead of the pack. They can't be THAT bad sailors. Some of it has to be the boat! This is just plain sad :(

#328 corkob

corkob

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 358 posts
  • Location:The Sovereigns
  • Interests:Monohull Offshore racing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:01 PM

Abu will win this leg ,does it matter if I get it wrong ! does it shit.And while we are on the subject of shit,It must be very hard to have a dump at those speeds.Would you go over the back or down below.Over the back does have its advantages , no paper required. Film that Volvo.


Baring ones behind over the back of a VOR 70 in those conditions would take some kahunas. Mind you at least you would'nt have to worry about ending up with clagnuts...... or your kahunas either for that matter. Posted Image

#329 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

Anyone get the inside info on the report sent from Measurers to Jury the other day? Something about Telefonica using one too many headsails on Leg 4...

Two teams confirmed they 'are aware of it' but would say nada besides that.

#330 smackdaddy

smackdaddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,683 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:19 PM

Seems Puma is crawling back a bit. Go MarMo!

#331 Cyrille Hydrogene

Cyrille Hydrogene

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:21 PM

The last 10 hours seem to have been excellent for Camper. They have gained a lot of miles south over Tele, and now look to be in very good position.
Or maybe, the last hours have been very bad for Tele, as they have been losing ground over everyone else! ;) Is it because of their masthead problem?

Anyway, the start of the leg has really been tough for all teams!

Abu Dhabi: broken J4 bulkhead
G4 : broken J4 clew
Puma : two serious injuries
Tele: broken masthead
Camper: ?

PS: Clean, keep us infomed, it could be serious!

#332 lead

lead

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 224 posts
  • Location:Auckland

Posted 20 March 2012 - 08:59 PM

looking good alright, they are far enough west to skirt around that light patch and are the furtherest south to get into some decent running around the ice zone first.

#333 whispers

whispers

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 185 posts

Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:11 PM

Camper will soon have to start picking fights with Sanya instead of the pack. They can't be THAT bad sailors. Some of it has to be the boat! This is just plain sad :(

Are you looking at the tracker or the volvo front page

#334 coxcreek

coxcreek

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 833 posts
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand

Posted 20 March 2012 - 09:22 PM

Looking at Camper's track in the last few hours, there's a period where she comes up a number of degrees, more so than the others, then pays off and goes deeper than the rest = maybe a lighter patch earlier - but anyway, agreed, looking very good at the moment. Still believe Camper has the legs on rest gong down, (look how she hauled in Telefonica end of last leg) maybe sweeter hull lines, less drag than the more powerful Juan Kouyoumdjian designs. Think Dalton has shot off somewhat prematurely, may have some regrets - many miles to go yet.

#335 boomer

boomer

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 19,105 posts
  • Location:PNW

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:13 PM

Seems Puma is crawling back a bit. Go MarMo!


+1

and have picked up more ground.

#336 harzak

harzak

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 566 posts
  • Location:Norway

Posted 20 March 2012 - 10:51 PM

Telefonica blind in the night, Puma healing people. Both up to speed with Groupama now. Sanya profit on fleet compression. Camper south first normally pays off. Light patch joker.

Interesting! Am I missing something? :)

#337 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:21 PM

Camper will soon have to start picking fights with Sanya instead of the pack. They can't be THAT bad sailors. Some of it has to be the boat! This is just plain sad :(


Camper are in a good position. They have got furthest south and will be very close to Telefonica. Do you follow the weather or just look at the DTF figures and jump to conclusions?

#338 Acuta

Acuta

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 5 posts
  • Location:Copenhagen harbour

Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:26 PM

Anyone get the inside info on the report sent from Measurers to Jury the other day? Something about Telefonica using one too many headsails on Leg 4...

Two teams confirmed they 'are aware of it' but would say nada besides that.



Que...? It sounds rather serious. What are your sources? Are we talking potential DQ of Telefonica for using too many sails?

#339 onimod

onimod

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 983 posts
  • Location:Sydney
  • Interests:Cannot be left blank

Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:37 PM

RE Telefonica's sails:
Is that normal to carry the extra sails and presumably decide which ones to use/exclude depending on the leg conditions?

#340 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:37 PM

I have confirmed with multiple teams that Telefonica was reported to have used an extra sail on Leg 4. My sources are 'lick me" and EMF.

I am getting close to running a story, but trying to give VOR HQ and Tele a little time to explain. They're running out though!

#341 Danno

Danno

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 417 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:54 AM

Sounds pretty serious! If its true then i can only assume they will be dsq. Even a 2hr time penalty will put them back to 6th

#342 nemme

nemme

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 25 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:57 AM

Couldn't it just be a points deduction? There were a few instances of that last time though maybe that was around measurement issues.

#343 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:02 AM

VOR BREAKING




A Two Sail Reach?





Reports from multiple sources have surfaced alleging that Telefonica used more than their allowed headsail allotment during Leg 3 of the Volvo Ocean Race. While no formal protests were filed, we've confirmed with sources inside the VOR that Measurers forwarded a report on the situation to the Jury on the Sunday of the Auckland re-start, though there’s nothing official posted anywhere we can find. Some say Tele used an extra staysail, some say an extra storm jib, though until we get an official comment, its all just speculation. Penalties will certainly apply if indeed the sail rules were broken, and if they were broken on one leg, they might've been broken on others.





VOR officials have not returned our emails by press time, but given the VOR staff’s usual transparency, we expect a comment soon.



#344 Left Hook

Left Hook

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,026 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:09 AM

I have confirmed with multiple teams that Telefonica was reported to have used an extra sail on Leg 4. My sources are 'lick me" and EMF.

I am getting close to running a story, but trying to give VOR HQ and Tele a little time to explain. They're running out though!


Don't lie to us, we all know that your source is deep throat.

#345 onimod

onimod

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 983 posts
  • Location:Sydney
  • Interests:Cannot be left blank

Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:37 AM

It looks like VOR will need to deploy a committee boat to the south pacific to keep an eye on the traffic jam out there at the moment.

#346 PonderousPelican

PonderousPelican

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 96 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:04 AM

I think they are about to raft up. Strange.

#347 USA190520

USA190520

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,679 posts
  • Location:mostly here but not all there

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:10 AM


I have confirmed with multiple teams that Telefonica was reported to have used an extra sail on Leg 4. My sources are 'lick me" and EMF.

I am getting close to running a story, but trying to give VOR HQ and Tele a little time to explain. They're running out though!


Don't lie to us, we all know that you deep throat.


Fixed

#348 smackdaddy

smackdaddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,683 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:12 AM

I think they are about to raft up. Strange.


So which boat brought the kegger?

#349 smackdaddy

smackdaddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,683 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:13 AM

I have confirmed with multiple teams that Telefonica was reported to have used an extra sail on Leg 4. My sources are 'lick me" and EMF.

I am getting close to running a story, but trying to give VOR HQ and Tele a little time to explain. They're running out though!


Threaten them with "negative PR" - that always works.

#350 USA190520

USA190520

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,679 posts
  • Location:mostly here but not all there

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:21 AM

Oh... A breaking news story complete with verified facts?


C'mon.... April 1 is weeks away..

#351 Terrafirma

Terrafirma

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,511 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:49 AM

It's been very very tough out there and I think all of the boats are playing survival rather than much else. There's nothing wrong with dropping a few miles if you are keeping the boat safe, you can't win if you keep breaking things. Too early to criticise some of the boats, such as Camper, it's early days and this race needs boats finishing rather than breaking.

#352 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:18 AM

Unless the RC or a boat protests it is all hearsay. Hard to prove now.



VOR BREAKING




A Two Sail Reach?





Reports from multiple sources have surfaced alleging that Telefonica used more than their allowed headsail allotment during Leg 3 of the Volvo Ocean Race. While no formal protests were filed, we've confirmed with sources inside the VOR that Measurers forwarded a report on the situation to the Jury on the Sunday of the Auckland re-start, though there's nothing official posted anywhere we can find. Some say Tele used an extra staysail, some say an extra storm jib, though until we get an official comment, its all just speculation. Penalties will certainly apply if indeed the sail rules were broken, and if they were broken on one leg, they might've been broken on others.





VOR officials have not returned our emails by press time, but given the VOR staff's usual transparency, we expect a comment soon.




#353 Rohanoz

Rohanoz

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,490 posts
  • Location:Australian East Coast
  • Interests:A bad day sailing is still better than a good day at work.

Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:27 AM

Unless the RC or a boat protests it is all hearsay. Hard to prove now.


VOR BREAKING
A Two Sail Reach?
Reports from multiple sources have surfaced alleging that Telefonica used more than their allowed headsail allotment during Leg 3 of the Volvo Ocean Race. While no formal protests were filed, we've confirmed with sources inside the VOR that Measurers forwarded a report on the situation to the Jury on the Sunday of the Auckland re-start, though there's nothing official posted anywhere we can find. Some say Tele used an extra staysail, some say an extra storm jib, though until we get an official comment, its all just speculation. Penalties will certainly apply if indeed the sail rules were broken, and if they were broken on one leg, they might've been broken on others.
VOR officials have not returned our emails by press time, but given the VOR staff's usual transparency, we expect a comment soon.



Leg 3 or 4? Either way, skippers declaration at the end of the leg would have showed it up much earlier than now.
These guys are pros - an 'oops, too many sails' story doesn't make any sense - they know their gear inside out.

Skipper - 'should we put up the J3 or J4?'
Trimmer - 'I just found a J3.5 down here. Want that?'
Skipper - 'Perfect. Send it up'.

#354 onimod

onimod

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 983 posts
  • Location:Sydney
  • Interests:Cannot be left blank

Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:51 AM

Unless the RC or a boat protests it is all hearsay. Hard to prove now.


I would have thought it's very easy to prove with an image.
Sightings from two separate boats would make it pretty conclusive too.

#355 Scarecrow

Scarecrow

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,560 posts
  • Location:Melbourne, Aus

Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:23 AM

If it was protested (and proven) what would/should the penalty be? In my head it would be a DSQ for that leg so they would loose 20 points and Clifford would gain 5. If that were to happen Clifford would be on 109 Groupama on 107 and Tele on 102. Would make for a very interesting second half of the race.

#356 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:27 AM

Unless the RC or a boat protests it is all hearsay. Hard to prove now.

Which is why we are so interested in what was in the document the measurement group forwarded to the Jury.

#357 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:31 AM


Unless the RC or a boat protests it is all hearsay. Hard to prove now.


VOR BREAKING
A Two Sail Reach?
Reports from multiple sources have surfaced alleging that Telefonica used more than their allowed headsail allotment during Leg 3 of the Volvo Ocean Race. While no formal protests were filed, we've confirmed with sources inside the VOR that Measurers forwarded a report on the situation to the Jury on the Sunday of the Auckland re-start, though there's nothing official posted anywhere we can find. Some say Tele used an extra staysail, some say an extra storm jib, though until we get an official comment, its all just speculation. Penalties will certainly apply if indeed the sail rules were broken, and if they were broken on one leg, they might've been broken on others.
VOR officials have not returned our emails by press time, but given the VOR staff's usual transparency, we expect a comment soon.



Leg 3 or 4? Either way, skippers declaration at the end of the leg would have showed it up much earlier than now.
These guys are pros - an 'oops, too many sails' story doesn't make any sense - they know their gear inside out.

Skipper - 'should we put up the J3 or J4?'
Trimmer - 'I just found a J3.5 down here. Want that?'
Skipper - 'Perfect. Send it up'.


Na, it's more esoteric. Has to do with what is a storm jib and what is a staysail, and how many of each you can fly, and there already has been a clarification about it issued the other day.

#358 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:45 AM

Jesus Clean there is a much better story with your beloved GD'S fuck ups than this.





Unless the RC or a boat protests it is all hearsay. Hard to prove now.


VOR BREAKING
A Two Sail Reach?
Reports from multiple sources have surfaced alleging that Telefonica used more than their allowed headsail allotment during Leg 3 of the Volvo Ocean Race. While no formal protests were filed, we've confirmed with sources inside the VOR that Measurers forwarded a report on the situation to the Jury on the Sunday of the Auckland re-start, though there's nothing official posted anywhere we can find. Some say Tele used an extra staysail, some say an extra storm jib, though until we get an official comment, its all just speculation. Penalties will certainly apply if indeed the sail rules were broken, and if they were broken on one leg, they might've been broken on others.
VOR officials have not returned our emails by press time, but given the VOR staff's usual transparency, we expect a comment soon.



Leg 3 or 4? Either way, skippers declaration at the end of the leg would have showed it up much earlier than now.
These guys are pros - an 'oops, too many sails' story doesn't make any sense - they know their gear inside out.

Skipper - 'should we put up the J3 or J4?'
Trimmer - 'I just found a J3.5 down here. Want that?'
Skipper - 'Perfect. Send it up'.


Na, it's more esoteric. Has to do with what is a storm jib and what is a staysail, and how many of each you can fly, and there already has been a clarification about it issued the other day.



#359 DtM

DtM

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,249 posts
  • Location:Out of the Office

Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:24 AM

Maybe Clean could get Nicole Scott to take some photos

#360 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:11 AM

Jesus Clean there is a much better story with your beloved GD'S fuck ups than this.



I make no apologies for liking Grant Dalton for exactly the reason people are so pissed at him: Because he says shit no one else will. Maybe he shouldn't, but I'm certainly not the judge of what to say and what not to.

Regardless, a possible penalty or even DSQ (though I have NO information if that is even an option) is a far bigger story than Dalts running his mouth again. To me, anyway.

#361 Andres Aavik

Andres Aavik

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 52 posts
  • Location:Estonia
  • Interests:Sailing

Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:49 AM

Sanya is doing REALLY well in the light stuff! Camper however isn't really impressing anybody with their positioning. They say they are further south and that everything is dandy but it's just a couple of miles...

#362 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

Me neither and you know the past. Seems he is losing the plot on this one though. Most disappointing thing is his latest rant on the sport. Fucks sake the sport is fucked because of people like Dalts. If people have balls you would tell Russell et al to fuck off, the rest of the world are not playing. Jesus it is not Larry, it is a drunken, egotistical prick called Sir Russell having a cock off with that the most egotistical loser of all time...Cayard




Jesus Clean there is a much better story with your beloved GD'S fuck ups than this.



I make no apologies for liking Grant Dalton for exactly the reason people are so pissed at him: Because he says shit no one else will. Maybe he shouldn't, but I'm certainly not the judge of what to say and what not to.

Regardless, a possible penalty or even DSQ (though I have NO information if that is even an option) is a far bigger story than Dalts running his mouth again. To me, anyway.



#363 spacecowboy

spacecowboy

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 16 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 07:52 AM

Jesus Clean there is a much better story with your beloved GD'S fuck ups than this.






Unless the RC or a boat protests it is all hearsay. Hard to prove now.


VOR BREAKING
A Two Sail Reach?
Reports from multiple sources have surfaced alleging that Telefonica used more than their allowed headsail allotment during Leg 3 of the Volvo Ocean Race. While no formal protests were filed, we've confirmed with sources inside the VOR that Measurers forwarded a report on the situation to the Jury on the Sunday of the Auckland re-start, though there's nothing official posted anywhere we can find. Some say Tele used an extra staysail, some say an extra storm jib, though until we get an official comment, its all just speculation. Penalties will certainly apply if indeed the sail rules were broken, and if they were broken on one leg, they might've been broken on others.
VOR officials have not returned our emails by press time, but given the VOR staff's usual transparency, we expect a comment soon.



Leg 3 or 4? Either way, skippers declaration at the end of the leg would have showed it up much earlier than now.
These guys are pros - an 'oops, too many sails' story doesn't make any sense - they know their gear inside out.

Skipper - 'should we put up the J3 or J4?'
Trimmer - 'I just found a J3.5 down here. Want that?'
Skipper - 'Perfect. Send it up'.


Na, it's more esoteric. Has to do with what is a storm jib and what is a staysail, and how many of each you can fly, and there already has been a clarification about it issued the other day.


More to do with how many Storm Jibs you can have on board during a leg. On VO70s because the measurement of Storm Jibs is only (Luff x LP)/2 < 35m2, anything outside the triangle is free area. So by adding a square top the Storm Jib becomes a pretty effective staysail. Trouble is they aren't great in 45knots upwind, the square tops flap violently, so you have to decide; either take a dedicated Storm Jib or a Storm Jib Staysail. Both are not included in the 17 race sails allowed for the race.

The last edition of the race allowed a maximum of 2 x SJs onboard, so all options covered. This edition, although the NOR is not written very clearly, you are only allowed to take one SJ. If you take additional then you must drop one of your other Headsails off the boat. Apparently Tele may have had both on board, a dedicated SJ and a SJ Staysail + their 2 x allowable head sails.

Read the VO70 rules on Storm sails and NOR and decide for yourself.

Some might say no great advantage, but if you look at how close the finish was between CAMPER and TELE in Auckland and the amount of time spent reaching where the SJ Staysail fits very nicely inside the J2, a SJ Staysail vs a SJ might very well be 90s quicker over 5000nm.

RC have sail lists and the boats are checked before and after a leg, so it's all quite easy to prove if in fact someone does breach sail limits.

#364 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:00 AM

Sanya is doing REALLY well in the light stuff! Camper however isn't really impressing anybody with their positioning. They say they are further south and that everything is dandy but it's just a couple of miles...


Have you looked at the weather? Do you understand why they have been sailing south? Do you know what a high pressure ridge does and that the southern boat will be the windward boat on the other side? Reading the DTF figures means nothing - it's all about positioning relative to the next weather system.

#365 paulg

paulg

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 10 posts
  • Location:Auckland , NZ

Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:47 AM

Me neither and you know the past. Seems he is losing the plot on this one though. Most disappointing thing is his latest rant on the sport. Fucks sake the sport is fucked because of people like Dalts. If people have balls you would tell Russell et al to fuck off, the rest of the world are not playing. Jesus it is not Larry, it is a drunken, egotistical prick called Sir Russell having a cock off with that the most egotistical loser of all time...Cayard





Jesus Clean there is a much better story with your beloved GD'S fuck ups than this.



I make no apologies for liking Grant Dalton for exactly the reason people are so pissed at him: Because he says shit no one else will. Maybe he shouldn't, but I'm certainly not the judge of what to say and what not to.

Regardless, a possible penalty or even DSQ (though I have NO information if that is even an option) is a far bigger story than Dalts running his mouth again. To me, anyway.



The Truth....
Whatever you are taking ..it is too strong....get a life and lighten up...

#366 whispers

whispers

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 185 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 08:53 AM


Sanya is doing REALLY well in the light stuff! Camper however isn't really impressing anybody with their positioning. They say they are further south and that everything is dandy but it's just a couple of miles...


Have you looked at the weather? Do you understand why they have been sailing south? Do you know what a high pressure ridge does and that the southern boat will be the windward boat on the other side? Reading the DTF figures means nothing - it's all about positioning relative to the next weather system.



must be a troll, he cannot be this stupid just ignore

#367 oioi

oioi

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 548 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:02 AM

Read the VO70 rules on Storm sails and NOR and decide for yourself.



From the NOR

5.2 WHILE RACING

5.2.1

(a) A Boat shall have on board 1 storm trysail, 1 storm jib and1 heavy weather jib
(HWJ).

(B) In an In-Port Race. Boats shall also have on board an In Port race spinnaker as
described in NOR APPENDIX E.

© The storm trysail shall only be used in case of safety or emergency and sheeted
without a mainsail.


5.2.2 In addition to the sails required to be on board in NOR 5.2.1(a) a Boat may carry on
board sails to a maximum of:

(a) 1 Mainsail

(B) 2 Headsails (which may include additional HWJ’s and storm jibs)

© 3 Spinnakers including 1 fractional spinnaker, which complies with Volvo Open 70 Rule
v.3. Section 11.3.9. None of these 3 additional spinnakers can be an In Port race
spinnaker as described in NOR APPENDIX E

(d) 1 Staysail (SS). Only permitted on a leg.


The VO70 rule states

11.4.2 A headsail shall be declared as a headsail at the time of measurement.
11.5.2 An SS shall be declared as an SS at the time of measurement.
11.6.2 A HWJ shall be declared as a HWJ at the time of measurement.
11.7.2 A storm jib shall be declared as a storm jib at the time of measurement.



Therefore - you have to declare what the sail is for. As a minium you have to carry 1xSJ and 1xHWJ
you can then add 2 more headsails (which may be Headsail, HWJ or SJ)
Reading it the grey area is the Staysail? Is this included in the allowance for Headsails or is it outside? I would read it as outside.



Therefore boat would have as a 1xSJ, 1xHWJ,1xSS and two others (i guess what in old money would be a light and heavy jib?)

#368 gybe-ho!

gybe-ho!

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,344 posts
  • Location:Curled up in the lee of Bum Island

Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:36 AM



Some onboard stuff from the fleet, note at the end, ADOR are in the J4. :ph34r:

Also from VOR this morning news that Camper had an issue with a cracked fwd bulkhead, now fixed by Mike and Salty.

#369 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 09:55 AM

And which ones did they have on leg 4?


Read the VO70 rules on Storm sails and NOR and decide for yourself.



From the NOR

5.2 WHILE RACING

5.2.1

(a) A Boat shall have on board 1 storm trysail, 1 storm jib and1 heavy weather jib
(HWJ).

(B) In an In-Port Race. Boats shall also have on board an In Port race spinnaker as
described in NOR APPENDIX E.

© The storm trysail shall only be used in case of safety or emergency and sheeted
without a mainsail.


5.2.2 In addition to the sails required to be on board in NOR 5.2.1(a) a Boat may carry on
board sails to a maximum of:

(a) 1 Mainsail

(B) 2 Headsails (which may include additional HWJ's and storm jibs)

© 3 Spinnakers including 1 fractional spinnaker, which complies with Volvo Open 70 Rule
v.3. Section 11.3.9. None of these 3 additional spinnakers can be an In Port race
spinnaker as described in NOR APPENDIX E

(d) 1 Staysail (SS). Only permitted on a leg.


The VO70 rule states

11.4.2 A headsail shall be declared as a headsail at the time of measurement.
11.5.2 An SS shall be declared as an SS at the time of measurement.
11.6.2 A HWJ shall be declared as a HWJ at the time of measurement.
11.7.2 A storm jib shall be declared as a storm jib at the time of measurement.



Therefore - you have to declare what the sail is for. As a minium you have to carry 1xSJ and 1xHWJ
you can then add 2 more headsails (which may be Headsail, HWJ or SJ)
Reading it the grey area is the Staysail? Is this included in the allowance for Headsails or is it outside? I would read it as outside.



Therefore boat would have as a 1xSJ, 1xHWJ,1xSS and two others (i guess what in old money would be a light and heavy jib?)



#370 haizeko

haizeko

    Newbie

  • Members
  • Pip
  • 11 posts
  • Location:Bilbao, Basque Country, Spain
  • Interests:Mini transat, ocean racing, weather routing

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:07 AM

VOR BREAKING




A Two Sail Reach?





Reports from multiple sources have surfaced alleging that Telefonica used more than their allowed headsail allotment during Leg 3 of the Volvo Ocean Race. While no formal protests were filed, we've confirmed with sources inside the VOR that Measurers forwarded a report on the situation to the Jury on the Sunday of the Auckland re-start, though there’s nothing official posted anywhere we can find. Some say Tele used an extra staysail, some say an extra storm jib, though until we get an official comment, its all just speculation. Penalties will certainly apply if indeed the sail rules were broken, and if they were broken on one leg, they might've been broken on others.





VOR officials have not returned our emails by press time, but given the VOR staff’s usual transparency, we expect a comment soon.



So those "multiple sources" are starting to get nervous with Tele performance? they should ask Mr. Bertarelli for help, he is very experienced in trying to win races from the desk office. Well, maybe they shuould make some training with a 49er between stopovers instead of licking their wounds or criticizing their designer. :P funny to see this kind of bullshit gossip news in Sailing ¿Anarchy? ;)

#371 Carboninit

Carboninit

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,169 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:41 AM

Any one have the positions of the ice gates the fleet have to pass through . Come on Abu go left and cut the fleet off as the wind builds. Wheres those bloody ice gates ? Volvo put them up.

#372 Vorwaerts

Vorwaerts

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 285 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 10:49 AM

Any one have the positions of the ice gates the fleet have to pass through . Come on Abu go left and cut the fleet off as the wind builds. Wheres those bloody ice gates ? Volvo put them up.


There are not gates like the Vendee uses but rather an exclusion zone. The exclusion zone is displayed in the tracker and the sailing instructions for leg 5 are online on the VOR homepage. Do not blame the Volvo organisers for your incompetence.

#373 whispers

whispers

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 185 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:01 AM

so do tele regard camper as more of a threat than the rest of the fleet, although camper appeard to be in a great position with leverage its a big call to leave the fleet and join one boat on a flyer thats coming third rather than covering groupama, aside from reaching i think camper has the ability and speed to win this race

#374 clamslapper

clamslapper

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 678 posts
  • Location:Marblehead, MA

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:02 AM

Sanya is doing REALLY well in the light stuff! Camper however isn't really impressing anybody with their positioning. They say they are further south and that everything is dandy but it's just a couple of miles...




Sanya's doing great. But you can't say that Camper's position is impressive or unimpressive -- way too close of a horse race at this stage. Hey, if nothing else, at least we can see that Camper is keeping up just fine on reaches. Surely they tweaked a few things, probably including sails, in that shed in Auckland.

#375 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:04 AM

Grant Dalton has said the boat is a dog so they now have an open book to go where ever they want....



so do tele regard camper as more of a threat than the rest of the fleet, although camper appeard to be in a great position with leverage its a big call to leave the fleet and join one boat on a flyer thats coming third rather than covering groupama, aside from reaching i think camper has the ability and speed to win this race



#376 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 21 March 2012 - 11:50 AM

Grant Dalton has said the boat is a dog so they now have an open book to go where ever they want....




so do tele regard camper as more of a threat than the rest of the fleet, although camper appeard to be in a great position with leverage its a big call to leave the fleet and join one boat on a flyer thats coming third rather than covering groupama, aside from reaching i think camper has the ability and speed to win this race


Thanks for your insight. You don't like Dalton, we grt it. Fuck off.

#377 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:09 PM

The high looks to be moving away a little quicker than the GFS forecast says, boats in the south in 15 knots, in the north slightly less.

I looked at the routing and at the moment they are in a race to the top of the ice gate - it may be a bit of a procession after that.

It's going to get heinous again. I know the ice gate is there for safety, but I reckon the boats will take a hiding bean reaching in 30+ knots, where they would have set themselves up for a quicker and smoother ride going south.

Here is the expedition routing for Camper.

Attached File  vor leg 5 routing 3.jpg   598.54K   79 downloads

#378 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

I do actually like the old prick and unlike you have actually sailed around the world a few times. But up to you as the weather router..........




Grant Dalton has said the boat is a dog so they now have an open book to go where ever they want....




so do tele regard camper as more of a threat than the rest of the fleet, although camper appeard to be in a great position with leverage its a big call to leave the fleet and join one boat on a flyer thats coming third rather than covering groupama, aside from reaching i think camper has the ability and speed to win this race


Thanks for your insight. You don't like Dalton, we grt it. Fuck off.



#379 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:15 PM

So those "multiple sources" are starting to get nervous with Tele performance? they should ask Mr. Bertarelli for help, he is very experienced in trying to win races from the desk office. Well, maybe they shuould make some training with a 49er between stopovers instead of licking their wounds or criticizing their designer. :P funny to see this kind of bullshit gossip news in Sailing ¿Anarchy? ;)


There's a difference between dock talk and something submitted to the jury.

It would be a shame if Telefonica broke the rules. They are good guys and no one would suggest they have got to the lead by cheating.

If they have to take a penalty they will be good sports.

Other teams would be surprised, maybe disappointed if a competitor has broken the rules. None of them are going 'Bertarelli' on us.

You're being hysterical.

#380 the paradox of thrift

the paradox of thrift

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,375 posts
  • Location:Mos-Vegas
  • Interests:I like sailing

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:20 PM

I do actually like the old prick and unlike you have actually sailed around the world a few times. But up to you as the weather router..........


Ok, good comeback. Dont fuck off.

I have not sailed around the world. Did you sail around Cape Horn?

Weather routing shows a profound impact on the leg by raising the ice gate.

#381 Swanno (Ohf Shore)

Swanno (Ohf Shore)

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,745 posts
  • Location:Perth, Western Australia

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:24 PM

I do actually like the old prick and unlike you have actually sailed around the world a few times. But up to you as the weather router..........





Grant Dalton has said the boat is a dog so they now have an open book to go where ever they want....




so do tele regard camper as more of a threat than the rest of the fleet, although camper appeard to be in a great position with leverage its a big call to leave the fleet and join one boat on a flyer thats coming third rather than covering groupama, aside from reaching i think camper has the ability and speed to win this race


Thanks for your insight. You don't like Dalton, we grt it. Fuck off.


What was your name in the last version of the VOR game

#382 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:25 PM

yes and yes and if Cape Horn is involved yes yet again


I do actually like the old prick and unlike you have actually sailed around the world a few times. But up to you as the weather router..........


Ok, good comeback. Dont fuck off.

I have not sailed around the world. Did you sail around Cape Horn?

Weather routing shows a profound impact on the leg by raising the ice gate.



#383 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

How much interest in sailing after P2011?. Hey it only cost $21 MILLION


I do actually like the old prick and unlike you have actually sailed around the world a few times. But up to you as the weather router..........





Grant Dalton has said the boat is a dog so they now have an open book to go where ever they want....




so do tele regard camper as more of a threat than the rest of the fleet, although camper appeard to be in a great position with leverage its a big call to leave the fleet and join one boat on a flyer thats coming third rather than covering groupama, aside from reaching i think camper has the ability and speed to win this race


Thanks for your insight. You don't like Dalton, we grt it. Fuck off.


Me too, once on the Barcelona round the world race game, and in the last version of the VOR game



#384 supine

supine

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,321 posts
  • Location:Frankfurt/Main, Germany

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:28 PM

Attached File  Screenshot.png   5.86K   3 downloads

Interesting that Telefonica took a gybe down to Camper's line. Both are in a little more pressure now.

#385 thetruth

thetruth

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,382 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:30 PM

Never played. Always found the real thing so much better


I do actually like the old prick and unlike you have actually sailed around the world a few times. But up to you as the weather router..........





Grant Dalton has said the boat is a dog so they now have an open book to go where ever they want....




so do tele regard camper as more of a threat than the rest of the fleet, although camper appeard to be in a great position with leverage its a big call to leave the fleet and join one boat on a flyer thats coming third rather than covering groupama, aside from reaching i think camper has the ability and speed to win this race


Thanks for your insight. You don't like Dalton, we grt it. Fuck off.


What was your name in the last version of the VOR game



#386 Heriberto

Heriberto

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,022 posts
  • Location:Saint Paul, Minnesota
  • Interests:Mount Gay Sugarcane

Posted 21 March 2012 - 12:54 PM


Jesus Clean there is a much better story with your beloved GD'S fuck ups than this.


Regardless, a possible penalty or even DSQ (though I have NO information if that is even an option) is a far bigger story than Dalts running his mouth again. To me, anyway.


Agreed, far bigger. But Dalton running his mouth is also a story.

#387 schakel

schakel

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,024 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:08 PM



Anyone agrees that if Groupama wins this leg from Telephonica they make a good chance for the overall win?


Agreed and hope so!

My bet for first to Western Ice Limit:
1. Tele
2. Groupama
3. Puma
4. Camper (- and there will be NO excuse of a slower boat)


Yep, I think they are the best bet to beat Tlf for the overall. Cool, low-key crew.


And (Badluck for Telphonica with mastfailure) Groupama now leading...
Fleet is close to each other now: distance first and last 11 Nm.
Except for Abu Dhabi then with their busted J4 bulkhead.

I saw in the wheather report that there are stronger winds ahead.

#388 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:08 PM

From Frostad, explaining why nothing has been posted about this yet. That's all from me for a bit. Off to the Caribbean!

It is the jury that decides when a report or a finding or a hearing is posted in the public domain and that depends on when they decide to have a hearing, if they decide to have a hearing. As said the issue related to a storm jib and Leg 4 only.

Jack is the best to fill you in on any other details.

The reason why we have not proactively posted anything yet, is that we did not know at the time we left Auckland if there was a case or not.

Cheers


Knut

#389 MR.CLEAN

MR.CLEAN

    Anarchist

  • Reporters
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,001 posts
  • Location:Everywhere you want to be
  • Interests:.

Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:44 PM

Update: Confirmed that the IJ have lodged a protest against Tele. More when I land hopefully

#390 Gert

Gert

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 268 posts
  • Location:Tenerife

Posted 21 March 2012 - 01:46 PM

Weather routing shows a profound impact on the leg by raising the ice gate.

Maybe you could do the same analysis ignoring the ice gates? Would be interesting to get a real idea about the impact.

#391 Left Hook

Left Hook

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,026 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:11 PM

Update: Confirmed that the IJ have lodged a protest against Tele. More when I land hopefully


Giggity

#392 moody frog

moody frog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,520 posts
  • Location:Brittany

Posted 21 March 2012 - 02:13 PM




Anyone agrees that if Groupama wins this leg from Telephonica they make a good chance for the overall win?


Agreed and hope so!

My bet for first to Western Ice Limit:
1. Tele
2. Groupama
3. Puma
4. Camper (- and there will be NO excuse of a slower boat)


Yep, I think they are the best bet to beat Tlf for the overall. Cool, low-key crew.


And (Badluck for Telphonica with mastfailure) Groupama now leading...
Fleet is close to each other now: distance first and last 11 Nm.
Except for Abu Dhabi then with their busted J4 bulkhead.

I saw in the wheather report that there are stronger winds ahead.


Telefonica did not have any mast failure, just the electronics "wand" I understand;

#393 Icedtea

Icedtea

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,074 posts
  • Location:Ireland

Posted 21 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

Ouch for tele, a disqualification could really cost them overall...

#394 crashdog

crashdog

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 163 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 04:48 PM

If the said protest was actually in play, I would have thought that it would have hit VOR news by now. So far, all we have is a speculation on this site, hardly an official, or perhaps even reliable, source of information. I certainly wouldn't be making a lot of predictions based on the current level of information. But then again, logic doesn't always sell newspapers...

#395 gybe-ho!

gybe-ho!

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,344 posts
  • Location:Curled up in the lee of Bum Island

Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:07 PM

From the VOR Site:

The International Jury will schedule a hearing during the next stopover in Itajaí after receiving a report from the head of the Measurement Group over the sails carried by Team Telefónica during Leg 4 from Sanya to Auckland.

No date has yet been set for the hearing into the protest, which concerns an alleged breach of the notice of race 5.2.2.

Full article here: Clicky

#396 Cyrille Hydrogene

Cyrille Hydrogene

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 490 posts
  • Location:London

Posted 21 March 2012 - 05:47 PM

From the VOR Site:

The International Jury will schedule a hearing during the next stopover in Itajaí after receiving a report from the head of the Measurement Group over the sails carried by Team Telefónica during Leg 4 from Sanya to Auckland.

No date has yet been set for the hearing into the protest, which concerns an alleged breach of the notice of race 5.2.2.

Full article here: Clicky


So it's now official! Well done Clean for the scoop!

What's the possible penalty for Telefonica if they are found guilty?

#397 Port Tack Approach

Port Tack Approach

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 733 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:09 PM

Puma and Group just took a hitch south. Looks more costly for Puma than Groupama. Is there better breeze down there?

#398 supine

supine

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,321 posts
  • Location:Frankfurt/Main, Germany

Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:30 PM

Puma and Group just took a hitch south. Looks more costly for Puma than Groupama. Is there better breeze down there?


Puma seemed to go too far while Groupama picked the perfect time to gybe back. Still, a close boat race by any definition.

Attached File  Screenshot-1.png   24.34K   36 downloads

#399 freddy

freddy

    Anarchist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 243 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:37 PM


From the VOR Site:

The International Jury will schedule a hearing during the next stopover in Itajaí after receiving a report from the head of the Measurement Group over the sails carried by Team Telefónica during Leg 4 from Sanya to Auckland.

No date has yet been set for the hearing into the protest, which concerns an alleged breach of the notice of race 5.2.2.

Full article here: Clicky


So it's now official! Well done Clean for the scoop!

What's the possible penalty for Telefonica if they are found guilty?


One thing is for sure they will not get a DSQ - even if found guilty of the most henious crime - this is a sponsor led parade of sail. Remember a few races ago, Illbruck were found to have contravened the class rules, and the boat was essentially out of class - their punishment....a $1000 fine or similar. I remember thinking what a joke that was - do not be surprised if something similar happens here!

#400 IBro

IBro

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 62 posts

Posted 21 March 2012 - 06:41 PM





Anyone agrees that if Groupama wins this leg from Telephonica they make a good chance for the overall win?


Agreed and hope so!

My bet for first to Western Ice Limit:
1. Tele
2. Groupama
3. Puma
4. Camper (- and there will be NO excuse of a slower boat)


Yep, I think they are the best bet to beat Tlf for the overall. Cool, low-key crew.


And (Badluck for Telphonica with mastfailure) Groupama now leading...
Fleet is close to each other now: distance first and last 11 Nm.
Except for Abu Dhabi then with their busted J4 bulkhead.

I saw in the wheather report that there are stronger winds ahead.


Telefonica did not have any mast failure, just the electronics "wand" I understand;

sail
""We broke the masthead (headsail) a bit," reported helmsman Pablo Arrarte. "A piece of the tack broke. It flew away and broke the tensor (tensioning connector) down to the bowsprit. "
source: http://www.volvoocea...l-breakage.html




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users