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What will the AC72s look like


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#201 Koukel

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 01:41 AM


What I'm dreaming of is the single, authoritative source


^^^
Are you calling our Sailor ?

Dreaming of... That's funny, but no. There was a drawing or two a few months back that defined the wing elements and control lines and all the sticky outy things pretty well. I haven't seen anything like that defining or describing winglet elements. I'm tempted to come up with one as I'm pretty good at drawings and annotation, but not so good on really understanding foils. I'm still not a 100% sure what a wand is on a moth, for instance. Also, I'm not even remotely interested in doing all the research.

Koukel

#202 eric e

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:01 AM

I'm still not a 100% sure what a wand is on a moth, for instance. Also, I'm not even remotely interested in doing all the research.


it's the harry potter thing

they need to wave around while muttering

to make those bathtubs fly

but seriously it's how they control what would be called the elevator on a fixed wing aircraft

or the collective on a helicopter

but no need to labour under my hazy definitions

read this


http://www.teknologi...Magic-Wands.pdf

and if you've got a baby wing sticking out of a wing

you have a winglet

but on hydroptere's rudder

you have tiny stub-? foils to increase the effectiveness of a fixed elevator/pitch foil

on a rudder....

winglets seems inadequate

but would perhaps be acceptable

from people who call hydroptere

a pontoon boat

#203 Monster Mash

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 04:34 AM

In daltons latest video he says that it will look like i giant spider, i think that it could possibly have a center hull because a normal cat doesnt look all that spider-ish



Hmmm, center hull, center pod. Where have I heard that before?

#204 dumper

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 09:34 AM


In daltons latest video he says that it will look like i giant spider, i think that it could possibly have a center hull because a normal cat doesnt look all that spider-ish



Hmmm, center hull, center pod. Where have I heard that before?


same thing haha

#205 kiwi_jon

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:10 AM

^^^^

1 - Dalts and I think it was Cayard have already said that the grinder positions will be on the hulls. They need all the weight they can on the windward hull.

2 - the AC72 class rules are rather restrictive with the size of the packing boxes the AC72 has to fit into and I doubt there is room to pack a center pod.

5.12 An AC72 Yacht shall be capable of being assembled and disassembled by a Competitor
as follows:

(a) within 24 hours, wings shall be disassembled and packed in shipping boxes of the
following outside dimensions:

(i) one box of 20.000 m x 5.000 m x 2.500 m;

(ii) additional boxes that will collectively fit within 5.000 m x 1.500 m x 19.000 m
no one of which shall be larger than 5.000 m x 1.500 m x 9.500 m;

(B ) within the same 24 hours, hulls and cross structure shall be disassembled and
packed in shipping boxes of the following outside dimensions:

(i) two of 22.500 m x 2.500 m x 2.000 m;

(ii) two of 14.500 m x 1.500 m x 1.250 m;


(c ) within 48 hours, from packed in the foregoing shipping boxes to assembled and
ready to sail.

Competitors shall satisfy the Measurement Committee that they are capable of meeting
these requirements. If the Measurement Committee has doubt as to the ability of a
Competitor to comply with the time constraints of this rule, they may require the
Competitor to demonstrate compliance by disassembling and reassembling the AC72
Yacht.



#206 kiwi_jon

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 10:26 AM



What I'm dreaming of is the single, authoritative source


^^^
Are you calling our Sailor ?

Dreaming of... That's funny, but no. There was a drawing or two a few months back that defined the wing elements and control lines and all the sticky outy things pretty well. I haven't seen anything like that defining or describing winglet elements. I'm tempted to come up with one as I'm pretty good at drawings and annotation, but not so good on really understanding foils. I'm still not a 100% sure what a wand is on a moth, for instance. Also, I'm not even remotely interested in doing all the research.

Koukel


Koukel,

Don't worry about the wand on the foiling moth. It is affectively a lever that that touches the water surface and automatically adjusts the foil surfaces for correct altitude and attitude when foiling/flying.

The AC72 class rules prohibit adjusting foil surfaces while sailing so the whole wand discussion is moot.

#207 nav

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:28 AM


In daltons latest video he says that it will look like i giant spider, i think that it could possibly have a center hull because a normal cat doesnt look all that spider-ish



Hmmm, center hull, center pod. Where have I heard that before?





"...obviously what's behind me is part of the beam structure of the boat, but it could be anywhere really, it's like a giant spider" But did that comment refer to the 72's configuration or the fact it was being built all over the yard?

And where did the comments about a 'central load point' that some have mentioned in this thread come from? Another video or article?

#208 Tony-F18

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

From what I understand a central pod is used to maintain maximum tension on the mainsheet and forestay.
With the use of the wing mainsheet tension is no longer relevant so that leaves forestay tension, not sure if you need a whole center hull for that or just a decent runner setup.
I guess we will have to wait and see :)

#209 nav

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:48 AM

From what I understand a central pod is used to maintain maximum tension on the mainsheet and forestay.
With the use of the wing mainsheet tension is no longer relevant so that leaves forestay tension, not sure if you need a whole center hull for that or just a decent runner setup.
I guess we will have to wait and see :)


All these technical points seem to be in dispute though. Haven't we had people saying authoritatively that the mainsheet load will be 1,500kg? That's nothing compared to the 20,000+ (iirc) on the V5s, but is higher than I was expecting for a wing.

What do you say about the packing dimensions vs the three hulls? Could it not be that even if a central pod were desirable from an engineering point of view, it is impossible under the rule?

#210 blunted

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:00 PM


From what I understand a central pod is used to maintain maximum tension on the mainsheet and forestay.
With the use of the wing mainsheet tension is no longer relevant so that leaves forestay tension, not sure if you need a whole center hull for that or just a decent runner setup.
I guess we will have to wait and see :)


All these technical points seem to be in dispute though. Haven't we had people saying authoritatively that the mainsheet load will be 1,500kg? That's nothing compared to the 20,000+ (iirc) on the V5s, but is higher than I was expecting for a wing.

What do you say about the packing dimensions vs the three hulls? Could it not be that even if a central pod were desirable from an engineering point of view, it is impossible under the rule?


The real load is on the runners, trying to pull maximum forestay load. The Wing load is pretty much only traveller load, a fraction of what the runner loads will be. Handling runner loads through corners will be a big determining factor in the designs of the boat.

#211 nav

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 12:11 PM



From what I understand a central pod is used to maintain maximum tension on the mainsheet and forestay.
With the use of the wing mainsheet tension is no longer relevant so that leaves forestay tension, not sure if you need a whole center hull for that or just a decent runner setup.
I guess we will have to wait and see :)


All these technical points seem to be in dispute though. Haven't we had people saying authoritatively that the mainsheet load will be 1,500kg? That's nothing compared to the 20,000+ (iirc) on the V5s, but is higher than I was expecting for a wing.

What do you say about the packing dimensions vs the three hulls? Could it not be that even if a central pod were desirable from an engineering point of view, it is impossible under the rule?


The real load is on the runners, trying to pull maximum forestay load. The Wing load is pretty much only traveller load, a fraction of what the runner loads will be. Handling runner loads through corners will be a big determining factor in the designs of the boat.


Thanks. Does your "through corners" comment indicate you don't think they'll be a non-immersed central hull? Not needed or not able to fit within the rule?

If no central hull is used, does that make an A5-like tensioned structure (spider) a requirement?

#212 Alpina

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:40 PM

My bet is a central platform for the grinders, aft of the wings trailing edge. Anything else would be crazy regarding the winch transmissions.

#213 Koukel

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:45 PM

If no central hull is used, does that make an A5-like tensioned structure (spider) a requirement?

Fun conversation. How about a little more silliness. Ever hear of anyone substituting a rigid structure for the forestay? In my imagination, I could envision a second far skinnier mast up front, or even one from each ama pushing the masthead back rather than pulling. Probably far too heavy in bad places to be practical, but could help with a whole bunch of runner / traveler / limiter issues.

Alternately, could you use a mizzen with a top stay to tension the headsail by pulling the wing strait back? This would allow the wing to rotate freely and perhaps lead to that mythical failsafe button? Ouch, my brain hurts from all the reasons why these are slow or won't work or aren't allowed, but I'll put it out there to prove my amatuer status and see if anyone else has considered the options.

Koukel

#214 Koukel

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 03:50 PM

http://www.teknologi...Magic-Wands.pdf

Great article. Pictures. Now I get it.

Koukel

#215 eric e

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Posted 12 May 2012 - 11:19 PM

as it's a bit quiet

wand, self adjusting elevator foils

are also used on the wind rider rave tri

as explained here as option 2

http://www.futurefoi....uk/control.htm

and i think there is something similar on the hobie trifoiler

and replacing the forestay with a yard and doing away with the mast, or tilting the mast, was part of the development from the lateen rig to the bermuda and called a bezaan rig

as used on america's most popular cat before the hobie

http://www.sailmagaz.../american_sail/

none of the above point worth a damn which is why we use the bermuda rig

#216 Koukel

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Posted 13 May 2012 - 04:38 PM

as it's a bit quiet
...replacing the forestay with a yard and doing away with the mast, or tilting the mast, was part of the development from the lateen rig to the bermuda and called a bezaan rig
as used on america's most popular cat before the hobie
http://www.sailmagaz.../american_sail/
none of the above point worth a damn which is why we use the bermuda rig

Awesome. Thanks for the info. I guess I've been musing about how to blow the rig if one of the 72s gets in trouble, and also whether there is anything new in the old style setups. Probably not if it's a trade off in pointing. Lower and faster is what we always say when someone else is sailing higher and in the groove.

Koukel

#217 nav

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 08:19 PM

This belongs here: http://www.zerogradi...ntra-la-stampa/

after the first question, they get into the loads and sailing tactics for the 72s.

#218 Xlot

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Posted 19 May 2012 - 10:42 PM

This belongs here: http://www.zerogradi...ntra-la-stampa/

after the first question, they get into the loads and sailing tactics for the 72s.


Right, too bad a transcript is not available. But even if RC then backtracks, he too does the free association AC72 - catastrophic failure.

Interesting bit too about an AC52 being the ideal size, with 20/20 hindsight - whodda thunk it?

#219 Te Kooti

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 03:39 AM

In Dean's diary from Venice he is very pissed off with the way their boat imploded as they were taking up tension on the tramp.

Fixed it. But boat did the same thing again.

Had to borrow a LR boat to get some practice.

So, very stressful. And it shows in the results.

Fast forward a year and we are doing up our AC72 tramp in San Francisco.

And what is that noise we hear?

It is enough to put you off your breakfast.

#220 ro!

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:31 AM

In Dean's diary from Venice he is very pissed off with the way their boat imploded as they were taking up tension on the tramp.

Fixed it. But boat did the same thing again.

Had to borrow a LR boat to get some practice.

So, very stressful. And it shows in the results.

Fast forward a year and we are doing up our AC72 tramp in San Francisco.

And what is that noise we hear?

It is enough to put you off your breakfast.


Just another load of bollocks from hastings in his ongoing efforts to increase his teakoody personnas post count......

#221 JWR

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 11:34 AM

'we'

#222 maxmini

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:12 PM


In Dean's diary from Venice he is very pissed off with the way their boat imploded as they were taking up tension on the tramp.

Fixed it. But boat did the same thing again.

Had to borrow a LR boat to get some practice.

So, very stressful. And it shows in the results.

Fast forward a year and we are doing up our AC72 tramp in San Francisco.

And what is that noise we hear?

It is enough to put you off your breakfast.


Just another load of bollocks from hastings in his ongoing efforts to increase his teakoody personnas post count......


Did the boat break or not ? I know it didn't make the first days racing ?

#223 Tony-F18

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:16 PM

As ETNZ should have learned by now, every boat has a breaking point.
I wonder if they have just somehow overtightened the whole thing.

#224 ~Stingray~

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 05:49 PM


This belongs here: http://www.zerogradi...ntra-la-stampa/

after the first question, they get into the loads and sailing tactics for the 72s.


Right, too bad a transcript is not available. But even if RC then backtracks, he too does the free association AC72 - catastrophic failure.

Interesting bit too about an AC52 being the ideal size, with 20/20 hindsight - whodda thunk it?

Never heard 'catastrophic failure' anywhere, maybe just missed it but yes it is a good listen. Wish he had let a little more slip about the design discovery that had them all scratching heads two weeks ago - could be interesting.

Here's the AC52 comment in context. Paraphrasing but it's close:

[Q and A about number of teams; RC says yes ten would be nicer but quality matters too and there's no lack of that at the top; specifically mentions LR. Then another question about how to get more teams but them being still quality teams]

RC: If I had my time again with this America's Cup I'd do a few things differently. I think we've got quite a lot right but we got a couple of things not quite right.

One of the things is we didn't get the pricing of the teams right - and there were reasons for that. I've talked about this before. I, we, didn't really appreciate the images of the AC45's. And so if you use that as example then maybe rather than use an AC72 this time, maybe they could be an AC52. It would look just fine, save cost, and instead of 11 crew on board you might have had 8 crew on board. And maybe make some of those elements one-design. In other words if we had sat down and said "Okay, the budget for the teams has got to be 'this' " then you could as an example make the wings one-design. They might end up being pretty close anyway. You could save everyone money but still have the America's Cup have a significant technology component as well.

Another part, and I was one of those pushing for it, would be at least a partial-nationality rule for the crews. I think that would probably help some of the teams, and in a commercial sense as well.

But overall if you look at where we are? I think even if you say today "there will be 4 teams in San Francisco in 2013" I still think it will be a pretty amazing event. Without a doubt it will be the most spectacular event we've seen in an America's Cup.

[takes a question, answers with some more thoughts on nationality, etc]

#225 nav

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:00 PM

In Dean's diary from Venice he is very pissed off with the way their boat imploded as they were taking up tension on the tramp.

Fixed it. But boat did the same thing again.

Had to borrow a LR boat to get some practice.

So, very stressful. And it shows in the results.

Fast forward a year and we are doing up our AC72 tramp in San Francisco.

And what is that noise we hear?

It is enough to put you off your breakfast.


I can't find 'Dean's Diary', can you give us a link (always a good idea)

#226 Rennmaus

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:27 PM


In Dean's diary from Venice he is very pissed off with the way their boat imploded as they were taking up tension on the tramp.

Fixed it. But boat did the same thing again.

Had to borrow a LR boat to get some practice.

So, very stressful. And it shows in the results.

Fast forward a year and we are doing up our AC72 tramp in San Francisco.

And what is that noise we hear?

It is enough to put you off your breakfast.


I can't find 'Dean's Diary', can you give us a link (always a good idea)

I hate that TK never posts links!!!

Here you go: http://www.kiwiyacht...n-barkers-blog/

Probably the post in question: http://www.kiwiyacht...no-sailing-etnz



#227 Te Kooti

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:37 PM



This belongs here: http://www.zerogradi...ntra-la-stampa/

after the first question, they get into the loads and sailing tactics for the 72s.


Right, too bad a transcript is not available. But even if RC then backtracks, he too does the free association AC72 - catastrophic failure.

Interesting bit too about an AC52 being the ideal size, with 20/20 hindsight - whodda thunk it?

Never heard 'catastrophic failure' anywhere, maybe just missed it but yes it is a good listen. Wish he had let a little more slip about the design discovery that had them all scratching heads two weeks ago - could be interesting.

Here's the AC52 comment in context. Paraphrasing but it's close:

[Q and A about number of teams; RC says yes ten would be nicer but quality matters too and there's no lack of that at the top; specifically mentions LR. Then another question about how to get more teams but them being still quality teams]

RC: If I had my time again with this America's Cup I'd do a few things differently. I think we've got quite a lot right but we got a couple of things not quite right.

One of the things is we didn't get the pricing of the teams right - and there were reasons for that. I've talked about this before. I, we, didn't really appreciate the images of the AC45's. And so if you use that as example then maybe rather than use an AC72 this time, maybe they could be an AC52. It would look just fine, save cost, and instead of 11 crew on board you might have had 8 crew on board. And maybe make some of those elements one-design. In other words if we had sat down and said "Okay, the budget for the teams has got to be 'this' " then you could as an example make the wings one-design. They might end up being pretty close anyway. You could save everyone money but still have the America's Cup have a significant technology component as well.

Another part, and I was one of those pushing for it, would be at least a partial-nationality rule for the crews. I think that would probably help some of the teams, and in a commercial sense as well.

But overall if you look at where we are? I think even if you say today "there will be 4 teams in San Francisco in 2013" I still think it will be a pretty amazing event. Without a doubt it will be the most spectacular event we've seen in an America's Cup.

[takes a question, answers with some more thoughts on nationality, etc]


I reckon RC deserves credit for frankness. Instead of "staying on (the bullshit) message" he has decided there is merit in frankness.

This after having his ear bent by Dalts (about the outrageous costs).

But, back to the point.

Coutts gets brownie points for speaking the truth here.

And I agree! The 52 footer would be good.

#228 Rennmaus

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:40 PM

Would the AC be the pinnacle of the sport with a 52ft boat? Fastest boats etc.

#229 Monster Mash

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:43 PM

^
Not to keen on one- design parts either.

#230 ~Stingray~

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:45 PM

^ Agreed on the AC52 potential but later in the interview he restates a point he also made to (iirc) VS recently: that it is entirely possible that after seeing the AC72's go at it, that nobody will want to shrink it down. ie: The jury is still out, for all of us.

He also mentions the desire by many to try agree some general things in foresight for AC35, possibly including a boat class; so the subject is potentially important for much more than for how it is seen in hindsight.

#231 Te Kooti

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:46 PM

]
I hate that TK never posts links!!!


Kia ora ... Tsk, tsk ... naughty me!

No excuse!

Except I am running on a solar panel and there has been no sun for a while.

And, every now and then, I have to scramble under the house to start the genset.

I have two book chapters due in 8 days (and I have already started sending "I have not forgotten" notes to the publishers - one in Dordrecht; the other in Boston)

As I recall, I got Deano's diary from www.etnzblog.com . Not from www.kiwiyachting.

Regarding Grant's spider comment, if you talk to the always exuberant Mick Cookson, you find 3 is a more stable number than 2.

Hence, the holy trinity (father, son, holy ghost); the 3 wise men; id, ego, superego; the equilateral triangle etc.

Mick Cookson is a character. And a good boat builder.

All those Glenfield jobs require "high skills". All good for Aotearoa.

But launching in July. Mid-winter! Brrrrh!

#232 Rennmaus

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:47 PM

^
Not to keen on one- design parts either.

OD built in different countries? It's a paradox.

Well, I think the discussion is moot, AC72s are decided and certainly more AC worthy.




#233 dogwatch

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:53 PM

Would the AC be the pinnacle of the sport with a 52ft boat? Fastest boats etc.


Not the fastest boats in any case. DZ versus AC72 anyone?

The pinnacle of the sport is the Olympics anyway. AC is where Olympic sailors go for a well-deserved rest.

#234 Te Kooti

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:53 PM

^ Agreed on the AC52 potential but later in the interview he restates a point he also made to (iirc) VS recently: that it is entirely possible that after seeing the AC72's go at it, that nobody will want to shrink it down. ie: The jury is still out, for all of us.



Agree with this.

The AC72 was born out of the Dogzilla experience.

And as part of a deep desire to one-up Brother Bertarelli.

Now Bertareli is off the stage we can see much was done with him as the backdrop.

It is quite possible the 72s will be so amazing we will all want them to stay.

But the fact Coutts (and, I assume, other Oracle executives) are open to the discussion, is a good thing.

After the 1988 DC cat/NZ "big boat" fiasco (the silliest AC ever) they called together key players and held a respectful discussion about what was needed.

The IACC came out of this process and, looking back, was a pretty good solution to the 1988 problem.

I suspect there will be something similar straight after the 2013 AC.

If OR are smart they will get someone (other than themselves) to orchestrate this consultative process.

#235 Rennmaus

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 06:54 PM


Would the AC be the pinnacle of the sport with a 52ft boat? Fastest boats etc.


Not the fastest boats in any case. DZ versus AC72 anyone?

The pinnacle of the sport is the Olympics anyway. AC is where Olympic sailors go for a well-deserved rest.

Thank you. Posted Image




#236 nav

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:01 PM


^
Not to keen on one- design parts either.

OD built in different countries? It's a paradox.

Well, I think the discussion is moot, AC72s are decided and certainly more AC worthy.


But there's nothing stopping all the wings being built in one country as things stand - and nothing to indicate that they would have to be done CIC in the RC speculations is there?

(I think the OD parts idea is unnecessary though.)

------------------------------------------------------

Regarding Grant's spider comment, if you talk to the always exuberant Mick Cookson, you find 3 is a more stable number than 2.

OK TK - stop writing your books for a moment, crank up the gen-set and give us 200 words on this please!

#237 Rennmaus

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:06 PM

But there's nothing stopping all the wings being built in one country as things stand at the moment and nothing to indicate that they would have to be done CIC in the RC speculations was there?

Depending on how CiC is defined in the protocol, they would not need to be, right. In AC33 tho (yes, not a protocol-event, but a DoG match) it was disputed whether the sails are CiC relevant or not.

Regarding Grant's spider comment, if you talk to the always exuberant Mick Cookson, you find 3 is a more stable number than 2.

OK TK - stop writing your books for a moment and give us 200 words on this please!

+1

#238 maxmini

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Posted 22 May 2012 - 07:09 PM



This belongs here: http://www.zerogradi...ntra-la-stampa/

after the first question, they get into the loads and sailing tactics for the 72s.


Right, too bad a transcript is not available. But even if RC then backtracks, he too does the free association AC72 - catastrophic failure.

Interesting bit too about an AC52 being the ideal size, with 20/20 hindsight - whodda thunk it?

Never heard 'catastrophic failure' anywhere, maybe just missed it but yes it is a good listen. Wish he had let a little more slip about the design discovery that had them all scratching heads two weeks ago - could be interesting.

Here's the AC52 comment in context. Paraphrasing but it's close:

[Q and A about number of teams; RC says yes ten would be nicer but quality matters too and there's no lack of that at the top; specifically mentions LR. Then another question about how to get more teams but them being still quality teams]

RC: If I had my time again with this America's Cup I'd do a few things differently. I think we've got quite a lot right but we got a couple of things not quite right.

One of the things is we didn't get the pricing of the teams right - and there were reasons for that. I've talked about this before. I, we, didn't really appreciate the images of the AC45's. And so if you use that as example then maybe rather than use an AC72 this time, maybe they could be an AC52. It would look just fine, save cost, and instead of 11 crew on board you might have had 8 crew on board. And maybe make some of those elements one-design. In other words if we had sat down and said "Okay, the budget for the teams has got to be 'this' " then you could as an example make the wings one-design. They might end up being pretty close anyway. You could save everyone money but still have the America's Cup have a significant technology component as well.

Another part, and I was one of those pushing for it, would be at least a partial-nationality rule for the crews. I think that would probably help some of the teams, and in a commercial sense as well.

But overall if you look at where we are? I think even if you say today "there will be 4 teams in San Francisco in 2013" I still think it will be a pretty amazing event. Without a doubt it will be the most spectacular event we've seen in an America's Cup.

[takes a question, answers with some more thoughts on nationality, etc]



We told him this over a year ago , why doesn't RC listen to us :P

#239 Te Kooti

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:11 AM

[
OK TK - stop writing your books for a moment, crank up the gen-set and give us 200 words on this please!



200 words. My current problem is how to hack down 10,000 into 7000 max. On the revitalization of Maori language. The other (at 8000 max) is on rural-urban migration in China. And how farmers overcome racism and other shit they meet in cities [I am hoping the next generation of Chinese leaders will stop denuding the countryside. Otherwise, we are heading into another famine]

Mick Cookson. Yea, well. drive up to Glenfield, park outside Cooksons and you do not see the spider.

But it is in there.

So TK, get to the point!

Which is the fact three is a crucial concept in most cultures.

Think about it. The Chinese 1-child policy is creating havoc because all those little emperors and empresses are over-indulged by 4 doting grandparents. However, the 1-child will be in shock when he/she finds they must care for the aging grandparents (and parents).

When Freud said the human personality consisted of 3 parts (id, ego and superego) he was responding to biblical injunction (father, son, holy ghost). And, in the U.S. you have the "Three Stooges" and "Three Ways to Lose Your Lover." Three, three, three!

If you have to guess a number between 1 and 5 (in order to win the prize) opt for three. It is more stable and has the needed oomph!

Mick Cookson.

Quite a lad! And knows what distinguishes 1 from 2 and both of those from 3. .

#240 Tony-F18

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 05:39 AM

TK: Was watching a Maori documentary on TV the other day, have you seen it?
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt2101394/

Smart kid yes, but a genius? Not sure.

#241 nav

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 04:58 PM


[
OK TK - stop writing your books for a moment, crank up the gen-set and give us 200 words on this please!



200 words. My current problem is how to hack down 10,000 into 7000 max. On the revitalization of Maori language. The other (at 8000 max) is on rural-urban migration in China. And how farmers overcome racism and other shit they meet in cities [I am hoping the next generation of Chinese leaders will stop denuding the countryside. Otherwise, we are heading into another famine]

Mick Cookson. Yea, well. drive up to Glenfield, park outside Cooksons and you do not see the spider.

But it is in there.

So TK, get to the point!

Which is the fact three is a crucial concept in most cultures.

Think about it. The Chinese 1-child policy is creating havoc because all those little emperors and empresses are over-indulged by 4 doting grandparents. However, the 1-child will be in shock when he/she finds they must care for the aging grandparents (and parents).

When Freud said the human personality consisted of 3 parts (id, ego and superego) he was responding to biblical injunction (father, son, holy ghost). And, in the U.S. you have the "Three Stooges" and "Three Ways to Lose Your Lover." Three, three, three!

If you have to guess a number between 1 and 5 (in order to win the prize) opt for three. It is more stable and has the needed oomph!

Mick Cookson.

Quite a lad! And knows what distinguishes 1 from 2 and both of those from 3. .


OOOO. K.!? That's all you want to say I guess.

So at least one of the ETNZ AC72s has three....what?? Cross-beams, masts, drain-plugs, USB portsPosted Image

Hulls? Cool!

p.s. If you spice that rumour up a bit Clean will stick it on the FP!

#242 eric e

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:04 PM

what will be interesting is the whole sng race committee thing

1 team will build a strong, heavy, slow boat

1 team will build a weak, light, fast boat

and they will argue about wind limits

#243 Te Kooti

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:31 PM

TK: Was watching a Maori documentary on TV the other day, have you seen it?
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt2101394/

Smart kid yes, but a genius? Not sure.




That doco. is an embarassment.

And the boy should do something. Before he gets promoted to celebrity status.

#244 Te Kooti

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:38 PM

So at least one of the ETNZ AC72s has three....what?? Cross-beams, masts, drain-plugs, USB portsPosted Image


There is a "circle of trust" around (and within TNZ).

Which I do not intend to break.

But here is something rather obvious.

Nespresso is a sponsor and GD knows (and often says) it is impossible to win the AC without good coffee [and is quite good at using the fancy coffee machine @ the base]

With those two things as a backdrop, where the hell does a bloke put a coffee machine on a two-hulled sailing craft?

Those big Maori two-hulled waka that delivered Kupe, Kahungunu, Awaniarangi and other paramount chiefs to Aotearoa were not encumbered by a coffee machine. Because, in those days, they did not have coffee.

But, with globalisation, every kiwi needs a flat white.

Even a sailor.

Think about it.

As I said, 3 is a more stable number than 2.

#245 Te Kooti

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Posted 23 May 2012 - 11:40 PM

what will be interesting is the whole sng race committee thing

1 team will build a strong, heavy, slow boat

1 team will build a weak, light, fast boat

and they will argue about wind limits



Didn't we see that movie at the last AC regatta?

#246 nav

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Posted 13 June 2012 - 07:07 PM

Trying to fathom the significance of this...... http://noticeboard.a...-2012-issue.pdf


Measurement Committee
Amendment No.7 to AC72 Class Rule
(Version 1.1: 22nd February, 2011)

Remove:
Existing APPENDIX E--MEDIA EQUIPMENT AND PERSONNEL of the AC72 Class Rule Version
1.1: February 22, 2011.
Replace with:
New APPENDIX E--MEDIA, TRACKING AND RACE COMM EQUIPMENT, as attached herewith.


Remove:
6.16 AC72 Yachts shall have one media bay fixed in each hull to accommodate the ACRM-provided
media equipment per Appendix E. The media bays shall be located between 8.000 m and
13.000 m forward of the stern plane and shall be easily accessible between races.


Remove:
From the Table of Contents, AC72 Class Rule, page 3:
APPENDIX E -- MEDIA EQUIPMENT AND PERSONNEL
Replace with:
APPENDIX E -- MEDIA, TRACKING AND RACE COMM EQUIPMENT
_______________________________________________________________________________
12 June, 2012
_____________________________________________________________________


Don't need a special 'bay for ACRM gear any more and the PERSONNEL aspect has been removed from the rule




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