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Farr 400 vs McConaghy 38 vs Farr 40


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#201 richiec

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 11:50 AM

Go the melges!

#202 TD Floater

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:01 PM

....
[/quote]
agreed thanks the top heading is confusing nomally just have wind speed, boat speed and twa on target cards IMO to avoid confusion
[/quote]

Probably why individual boat bits are best left on them .

#203 doghouse

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 12:45 PM




Wouldn't the VB label stand for boat velocity?

ooohhh..and here i was thinking it meant Victoria Bitter (a very well known aussie beer)

:lol:

cheers,


I hope you use the term "beer" losely!!! :lol:


Now we are getting somewhere...

#204 walterbshaffer

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 02:40 PM

So which of the Oz boats is going to change divisions at Sail Port Stephens.
I hear they both have IRC certs, will they choose to go head to head, inshore or offshore.
Current entries have Mc 38 offshore in IRC, Farr 400 inshore PHS.
Who will blink first??


Maybe there is something about the courses not apparent from the titles but I thought the MC38 was supposed to be more of an inshore boat and the 400 an offshore boat?

#205 HILLY

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:27 PM


So which of the Oz boats is going to change divisions at Sail Port Stephens.
I hear they both have IRC certs, will they choose to go head to head, inshore or offshore.
Current entries have Mc 38 offshore in IRC, Farr 400 inshore PHS.
Who will blink first??


Maybe there is something about the courses not apparent from the titles but I thought the MC38 was supposed to be more of an inshore boat and the 400 an offshore boat?


IRC will be w/l and PHS will be 1 day of w/l then day passage races.
If they do IRC they will be up against (speculation, as divs not announced), Corby 43, GP 42, Rogers 46, and 2 very well sailed Ben 45's among others.
Walter there is also a Ben 10r/34.7 in IRC, new owner with a switched on crew, you may be interested in following.
http://sailportstephens.com.au/

#206 opusone

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 03:57 PM



So which of the Oz boats is going to change divisions at Sail Port Stephens.
I hear they both have IRC certs, will they choose to go head to head, inshore or offshore.
Current entries have Mc 38 offshore in IRC, Farr 400 inshore PHS.
Who will blink first??


Maybe there is something about the courses not apparent from the titles but I thought the MC38 was supposed to be more of an inshore boat and the 400 an offshore boat?


IRC will be w/l and PHS will be 1 day of w/l then day passage races.
If they do IRC they will be up against (speculation, as divs not announced), Corby 43, GP 42, Rogers 46, and 2 very well sailed Ben 45's among others.
Walter there is also a Ben 10r/34.7 in IRC, new owner with a switched on crew, you may be interested in following.
http://sailportstephens.com.au/



Who would you choose to win this event?

CELESTIAL 421 Sam Haynes CYCA Rogers 46 NSW 1.267 tba
CONE OF SILENCE 38001 James Neill RPAYC Mc 38 NSW 1.255 tba

The Cone has a tough rating if it rates this close to the Rogers 46.

Cheers,

opusone

#207 barefoot children

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 06:38 PM

CRW next week...
Division: PHRF PHRF A
USA 60432 Cool Breeze Mills 43 Custom 43 -6.0
ODC 12 Madina Farr 40 Ondeck 40 -6.0
USA ODC10 Predator Farr 40 Ondeck 40 -6.0
CAN 5 Carbonado McConaghy 38 38
USA 406 Spaceman Spiff Farr 400 38.5
USA 404 Meridian X Farr 400 38.5
USA 403 Team Premier Farr400 38

Beware, the numbers for the Farr 400 and Mc38 are not PHRF ratings, just placemarkers so far

#208 Gorn FRANTIC!!

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Posted 12 April 2012 - 07:53 PM



So which of the Oz boats is going to change divisions at Sail Port Stephens.
I hear they both have IRC certs, will they choose to go head to head, inshore or offshore.
Current entries have Mc 38 offshore in IRC, Farr 400 inshore PHS.
Who will blink first??


Maybe there is something about the courses not apparent from the titles but I thought the MC38 was supposed to be more of an inshore boat and the 400 an offshore boat?


IRC will be w/l and PHS will be 1 day of w/l then day passage races.
If they do IRC they will be up against (speculation, as divs not announced), Corby 43, GP 42, Rogers 46, and 2 very well sailed Ben 45's among others.
Walter there is also a Ben 10r/34.7 in IRC, new owner with a switched on crew, you may be interested in following.
http://sailportstephens.com.au/

The MC38 will beat the Corby worse than a red headed step child.

#209 Jabbawocky

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:24 AM

Is it true that Matt Allen's Farr 400 has an actual IRC certificate, or is that an assumption?

#210 DickDastardly

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 01:34 AM

Assumption. Nothing on the IRC listings - 2 Ichi Ban certificates, one is for the V070 the other for the Beneteau

#211 Jabbawocky

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:16 AM

So is The Cone going to sail Performance Racing?

#212 Evo

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 02:30 AM

Now we are getting somewhere...


Swizzle Inn?

#213 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 04:00 AM

I just heard that a third Farr 400 is coming to Charleston with a pretty good crew ;)

#214 Left Hook

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:39 AM

I just heard that a third Farr 400 is coming to Charleston with a pretty good crew ;)


It's been on the scratch sheet for 2 days?

#215 paulewill

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Posted 13 April 2012 - 11:13 AM

Good luck up there, shame the 400 is running and hiding again.........
[/quote]

Why ruin a perfectly good thread by having the boats race each other. Far more interesting to keep the boats apart so the speculation continues.

#216 AVID

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:45 AM

Does anybody know how many M38 are in Australia? I have only seen 3, the cone, a blue one and white one. I realize it takes a while to reach one design critical mass, but the take up rate does not seam outstanding (ie compare 60+ Sydney 38 over two years just in Australia).

Truely hope they ramp up in numbers. Must be lots of people siting on fence. Only way I'm going to get my hands on one is through the second hand market, so come on guys buy buy buy.

Still not really seeing mass exodus of M32 teams transitioning to either M38 or Farr 400 just yet, or are they just waiting on the melges war machine to crank out its own 40 footer.

#217 richiec

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:58 AM

The Melges 32 is already a super hot boat and class to sail in, so why would etsbalished teams want to get out of them? They are probably the premier high performance one design boat sailed at Grand Prix level in the world right now - and have been for the past several years, with a well organised regatta schedule in Europe, the US and even a small, enthusiastic fleet on the east coast in Australia (10 here now?) What are we up to now, about hull 130-ish? (It may be more). You could also probably run a two boat Melges 32 programme for the price of either the M38 or Farr400. And they are a tad easier to transport. Anyway, back to normal programming/hikack over etc.

#218 justinnyc

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:14 AM

The Melges 32 is already a super hot boat and class to sail in, so why would etsbalished teams want to get out of them? They are probably the premier high performance one design boat sailed at Grand Prix level in the world right now - and have been for the past several years, with a well organised regatta schedule in Europe, the US and even a small, enthusiastic fleet on the east coast in Australia (10 here now?) What are we up to now, about hull 130-ish? (It may be more). You could also probably run a two boat Melges 32 programme for the price of either the M38 or Farr400. And they are a tad easier to transport. Anyway, back to normal programming/hikack over etc.


that's a good one.

#219 Windward Mark

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:15 AM

Does anybody know how many M38 are in Australia? I have only seen 3, the cone, a blue one and white one. I realize it takes a while to reach one design critical mass, but the take up rate does not seam outstanding (ie compare 60+ Sydney 38 over two years just in Australia).

Truely hope they ramp up in numbers. Must be lots of people siting on fence. Only way I'm going to get my hands on one is through the second hand market, so come on guys buy buy buy.

Still not really seeing mass exodus of M32 teams transitioning to either M38 or Farr 400 just yet, or are they just waiting on the melges war machine to crank out its own 40 footer.


3 at the moment. Another will be signed up in the next few days as they just sold their current ride. Seems as though plenty of interest from people with coin, but they are waiing for each other to move first......

#220 Windward Mark

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:20 AM

Why ruin a perfectly good thread by having the boats race each other. Far more interesting to keep the boats apart so the speculation continues.


And just for good measure, the Ker 40 was going to come up but decided that the annual RSYS cruise was more appealing. A fully decked out Ker 40 with plush carpet, an enclosed head, plus deck chairs, card table, on deck esky, BBQ and tender (suitably overpowered)is a sight to see and probably not what Ker had in mind when designing the boat!!!

Good luck to you up there anyway Paul, between you me and Anarchy, I would have had my money on the 400. Not a reflection on the boat, just the very capable crew you have..... yourself excluded :P

#221 AVID

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:46 AM

The Melges 32 is already a super hot boat and class to sail in, so why would etsbalished teams want to get out of them? They are probably the premier high performance one design boat sailed at Grand Prix level in the world right now - and have been for the past several years, with a well organised regatta schedule in Europe, the US and even a small, enthusiastic fleet on the east coast in Australia (10 here now?) What are we up to now, about hull 130-ish? (It may be more). You could also probably run a two boat Melges 32 programme for the price of either the M38 or Farr400. And they are a tad easier to transport. Anyway, back to normal programming/hikack over etc.



Not sayin M32 isn't awesome bit of kit. Those who know me truely know how much i lusted after ine. But that said, the world keeps moving, your comments were equally true of the awesome F30 a few years ago but that honor now rests with the 32. Just speculating on what design will next attract the professionals and $$$$$$$, won't be the M32 forever.

#222 BigDonger

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:53 AM




So which of the Oz boats is going to change divisions at Sail Port Stephens.
I hear they both have IRC certs, will they choose to go head to head, inshore or offshore.
Current entries have Mc 38 offshore in IRC, Farr 400 inshore PHS.
Who will blink first??


Maybe there is something about the courses not apparent from the titles but I thought the MC38 was supposed to be more of an inshore boat and the 400 an offshore boat?


IRC will be w/l and PHS will be 1 day of w/l then day passage races.
If they do IRC they will be up against (speculation, as divs not announced), Corby 43, GP 42, Rogers 46, and 2 very well sailed Ben 45's among others.
Walter there is also a Ben 10r/34.7 in IRC, new owner with a switched on crew, you may be interested in following.
http://sailportstephens.com.au/

The MC38 will beat the Corby worse than a red headed step child.


Gorn, you say that like you know what your talking about.

#223 Broseidon

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:58 AM

Ratings for the two are finally up. They are racing level at -18. Let the War begin. Farr has stacked on of the 400's with a bunch of pro's in a last ditch effort to save the class. the MC38 is going with there regular crew which includes 1 pro if i'm not mistaken.

#224 facthunt

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:41 AM

Ratings for the two are finally up. They are racing level at -18. Let the War begin. Farr has stacked on of the 400's with a bunch of pro's in a last ditch effort to save the class. the MC38 is going with there regular crew which includes 1 pro if i'm not mistaken.



that would be a pleasurable experience sailing with a bunch of pro`s, go the cone.

#225 MSA

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:53 AM

I think broseidon was talking about the US regatta.. -18 is referring to a PHRF rating, not an IRC rating.

#226 Trickypig

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:30 AM

Ratings for the two are finally up. They are racing level at -18. Let the War begin. Farr has stacked on of the 400's with a bunch of pro's in a last ditch effort to save the class. the MC38 is going with there regular crew which includes 1 pro if i'm not mistaken.


Cone has good sailors aboard this weekend but no pros. Also more than half the crew haven't sailed on her yet. Forecast is light and sloppy so it won't be a boatspeed shootout, mainly smarts and kite handling.

#227 Heriberto

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:45 AM

Ratings for the two are finally up. They are racing level at -18. Let the War begin. Farr has stacked on of the 400's with a bunch of pro's in a last ditch effort to save the class. the MC38 is going with there regular crew which includes 1 pro if i'm not mistaken.


Which war? The war of managed expectations? Looks like the first salvo has been volleyed.

#228 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 10:54 AM

Sailed on Carbonado today, boat is damned nice.

#229 HILLY

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

So rumour here at Port Stephens has the MC38 going into PHS.
Also that the F400 will be go into PHS cruising, non spinnaker, if they can get hold of a carbon fibre boat hook to hold the headsail out down wind.
My sources may or may not have impeccible knowledge...
Alcohol may or may not have been involved in the gaining of this knowledge.

#230 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 12:36 PM

We went out in 15-20 knots of SE seabreeze for a shakedown, CRW starts on Friday. Went out without two key crew members, spent a half hour sorting out silly issues like dealing with a silly main clew hold down strop and getting the jib pennant the exact length to work with the halyard locks.

Got everything up, stomped out the jetty into 3+ knots of incoming tide (it took ages against the tide), then popped the practice kite (an old Swan 42 kite - luff doesn't even get down to the pole) and sailed North with a solid 17 or so behind puffing to 20. Speedo wasn't working, but we covered some serious ground, even with an awfully shaped practice kite. Boat is ultra forgiving, rudder feels like it must be 25 feet long!

Driving upwind, the McC 38 reminds me of the STP65 I sailed to Charleston a few years ago. Tons of form stability, tons of lead stability when you get some heel on, and that cool little wake that comes from a wide boat hauling ass with a lot of heel on. With most of the stability coming from the boat, she needs to heel to go fast, and with those ultra high aspect foils, if she doesn't go fast, she goes sideways. So we targeted maybe 22-24 degrees of heel and played the mainsheet and traveler to keep her on her feet through the puffs, with me just sailing on the telltales.

With the traveler down about 4" from centerline, helm was completely balanced until the heel got into the 25 deg range, after which point it gave me a little helm.

Overall impressions based on a 3 hour sail:

1) Boat is the most basic, stripped out racer. Like a 38 foot carbon version of a Melges 32 that relies on ballast and form rather than crew weight for its prodigious power.
2) Boat is going to be a hate mission on distance races, though you should get there quickly! Definitely one of those "motor to the starting line, and if it's nasty and on the nose, turn around and go home." If it's reachy or runny, you'll kill everything.
3) Comparing the McC38 to Farr 400 or Carkeek 40 misses the point. That's like comparing the original Cone to a Melges 32. The 400 or Carkeek 40 are built so they are ready to sail to Bermuda or Transpac - they are bigger, heavier, and way more expensive. You can take the McC on one of those races, but only if you like being very wet.
4) The deck is actually plenty dry in 2 or 3 foot seas, but as soon as it gets bigger than that, I think it'll be damned wet.
5) I like the fact that max beam is carried all the way aft, and I like the fact that everyone hikes in the back. Even upwind, it doesn't seem like the boat needs any weight forward at all.
6) Having all the sheets and other controls go under the deck is awesome, and the cockpit really does remind one of a TP52 in every way. Unfortunately, anything beyond buoy racing is going to take a serious waterproofing effort.
7) Compared to the Soto 40, which is this boat's only real competition when it comes to design brief and price, the McC looks terrific and is solidly built of carbon. Rig also appears hugely overbuilt - not a negative in my book.
8) I'm told the McC is under 400k on the line, racing, compared to about the same for a Soto 40, about 550-600k all up for the Farr 400, and from around 650k to 1M for the Carkeek.
9) Combined with the boat's looks and McC's reputation, that price puts this boat in a very good position to build some real OD fleets in the US and Caribbean. One of the active Puerto Rican racers was out sailing with us, he came specifically to look at the McC, and he was damned impressed. Honestly the boat should destroy in caribbean racing, and I can't even imagine how fun it would be to race this thing in 25 knots and 8 footers in a 10-boat, non-rating fleet at the Heineken or St. Barts or Charleston or <gasp> Key West.


Biggest negatives for me:

1) Boat is going to be WET in a seaway. Wet on deck, wet down below.
2) That sexy low freeboard look and light weight (the McC is >600 KG lighter than a F400 and 1000 KG lighter than a Soto) mean that the downstairs (can't call it a cabin for obvious reasons) is almost unusable for a 6'2", inflexible dude like me. Make sure you have a small crewmember or two to deal with the stuff down there. I'd consider painting the inside white as well, sure it might cost you a few pounds in weight but it is hard to see anything down there as you crawl around.
3) Nearly 10' draft is going to require some thinking for those that are used to 7 or 8 feet. Lifting keel is apparently easy to deal with though I haven't seen it in action.

Biggest positives:

1) Awesome rudder, great balance, makes you want to flick in into corners like a Ferrari.
2) Very lightly loaded lines for a 38-foot racer. Nothing on this boat feels like it's going to kill you if a block explodes.
3) Very wide square top main looks the business and sets extremely well, auto-depowering upwind and really adding to the power downwind. This one was a Quantum, not sure who built it.
4)Looks, looks, looks, looks.

#231 bshores

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:34 PM

We went out in 15-20 knots of SE seabreeze for a shakedown, CRW starts on Friday. Went out without two key crew members, spent a half hour sorting out silly issues like dealing with a silly main clew hold down strop and getting the jib pennant the exact length to work with the halyard locks.

Got everything up, stomped out the jetty into 3+ knots of incoming tide (it took ages against the tide), then popped the practice kite (an old Swan 42 kite - luff doesn't even get down to the pole) and sailed North with a solid 17 or so behind puffing to 20. Speedo wasn't working, but we covered some serious ground, even with an awfully shaped practice kite. Boat is ultra forgiving, rudder feels like it must be 25 feet long!

Driving upwind, the McC 38 reminds me of the STP65 I sailed to Charleston a few years ago. Tons of form stability, tons of lead stability when you get some heel on, and that cool little wake that comes from a wide boat hauling ass with a lot of heel on. With most of the stability coming from the boat, she needs to heel to go fast, and with those ultra high aspect foils, if she doesn't go fast, she goes sideways. So we targeted maybe 22-24 degrees of heel and played the mainsheet and traveler to keep her on her feet through the puffs, with me just sailing on the telltales.

With the traveler down about 4" from centerline, helm was completely balanced until the heel got into the 25 deg range, after which point it gave me a little helm.

Overall impressions based on a 3 hour sail:

1) Boat is the most basic, stripped out racer. Like a 38 foot carbon version of a Melges 32 that relies on ballast and form rather than crew weight for its prodigious power.
2) Boat is going to be a hate mission on distance races, though you should get there quickly! Definitely one of those "motor to the starting line, and if it's nasty and on the nose, turn around and go home." If it's reachy or runny, you'll kill everything.
3) Comparing the McC38 to Farr 400 or Carkeek 40 misses the point. That's like comparing the original Cone to a Melges 32. The 400 or Carkeek 40 are built so they are ready to sail to Bermuda or Transpac - they are bigger, heavier, and way more expensive. You can take the McC on one of those races, but only if you like being very wet.
4) The deck is actually plenty dry in 2 or 3 foot seas, but as soon as it gets bigger than that, I think it'll be damned wet.
5) I like the fact that max beam is carried all the way aft, and I like the fact that everyone hikes in the back. Even upwind, it doesn't seem like the boat needs any weight forward at all.
6) Having all the sheets and other controls go under the deck is awesome, and the cockpit really does remind one of a TP52 in every way. Unfortunately, anything beyond buoy racing is going to take a serious waterproofing effort.
7) Compared to the Soto 40, which is this boat's only real competition when it comes to design brief and price, the McC looks terrific and is solidly built of carbon. Rig also appears hugely overbuilt - not a negative in my book.
8) I'm told the McC is under 400k on the line, racing, compared to about the same for a Soto 40, about 550-600k all up for the Farr 400, and from around 650k to 1M for the Carkeek.
9) Combined with the boat's looks and McC's reputation, that price puts this boat in a very good position to build some real OD fleets in the US and Caribbean. One of the active Puerto Rican racers was out sailing with us, he came specifically to look at the McC, and he was damned impressed. Honestly the boat should destroy in caribbean racing, and I can't even imagine how fun it would be to race this thing in 25 knots and 8 footers in a 10-boat, non-rating fleet at the Heineken or St. Barts or Charleston or <gasp> Key West.


Biggest negatives for me:

1) Boat is going to be WET in a seaway. Wet on deck, wet down below.
2) That sexy low freeboard look and light weight (the McC is >600 KG lighter than a F400 and 1000 KG lighter than a Soto) mean that the downstairs (can't call it a cabin for obvious reasons) is almost unusable for a 6'2", inflexible dude like me. Make sure you have a small crewmember or two to deal with the stuff down there. I'd consider painting the inside white as well, sure it might cost you a few pounds in weight but it is hard to see anything down there as you crawl around.
3) Nearly 10' draft is going to require some thinking for those that are used to 7 or 8 feet. Lifting keel is apparently easy to deal with though I haven't seen it in action.

Biggest positives:

1) Awesome rudder, great balance, makes you want to flick in into corners like a Ferrari.
2) Very lightly loaded lines for a 38-foot racer. Nothing on this boat feels like it's going to kill you if a block explodes.
3) Very wide square top main looks the business and sets extremely well, auto-depowering upwind and really adding to the power downwind. This one was a Quantum, not sure who built it.
4)Looks, looks, looks, looks.


Clean, awesome write up, looking forward to your review on the J/70 as well. Got any pics/video from these recent boat tests?

#232 Heriberto

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 04:08 PM

Anyone know if they give ratings for square top mains under ORR?

#233 you wont make it

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:26 PM

So rumour here at Port Stephens has the MC38 going into PHS.
Also that the F400 will be go into PHS cruising, non spinnaker, if they can get hold of a carbon fibre boat hook to hold the headsail out down wind.
My sources may or may not have impeccible knowledge...
Alcohol may or may not have been involved in the gaining of this knowledge.


didn't think you were paying any attention to the conversations at topless bar maid wednsday at the seabreeze hotel.....

#234 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:32 PM

video?


I'll get some video of all three before the end of the week, and I'm sure the CRW daily vids will have some nice shots of the F400 and MC38. Mer will be getting some detail shots of the boats as well.

Thanks for the compliment!

#235 HILLY

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:41 AM


So rumour here at Port Stephens has the MC38 going into PHS.
Also that the F400 will be go into PHS cruising, non spinnaker, if they can get hold of a carbon fibre boat hook to hold the headsail out down wind.
My sources may or may not have impeccible knowledge...
Alcohol may or may not have been involved in the gaining of this knowledge.


didn't think you were paying any attention to the conversations at topless bar maid wednsday at the seabreeze hotel.....


Of course I was paying attention..
The young lady had valid concerns of both boats ability to navigate the narrow shallow waters of Port Stephens at speed, their abilty to manoeuver out of harms way at 15kn.+ when boats were running aground at 5 kn or less this week. She seemed genuinely interested in the up and downwind capababilities of both boats, and was unsure which would be faster round a scenic course.
I though her final 2 questions were both valid:
1. Which boat will rate the highest
2. Y.W.M.I. could you please stop motorboating my tits...

And in breaking news,
The secret lair of the International PHS Handicap Committee was unearthed this afternoon, and it seems they are also having trouble with the allocation of suitable H'caps for both boats, so have turned to scientific methods.

Attached Files



#236 The Advocate

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 09:53 AM

Nice notes Clean.

#237 Gorn FRANTIC!!

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 04:14 AM

the dangers of not having an irc rating

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#238 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 05:04 AM

Carbonado and the F400s are racing level. One of the F400s protested. Protest was dismissed.

Looking at the numbers I don't quite see what conditions the MC38 would be slower in. It's lighter and wider and has no freeboard, and plenty of power to drive it. The 400 seems to be more of an offshore-capable boat, and it's just a lot more boat.

That being said, there is some mad talent on Premier while Carbonado's core crew is a mom, pop, and 15 year old son (though he is a hell of a lot better than a lot of us!). So maybe the talent equalizes the boatspeed and they fight for the lead all weekend. Or maybe I have no idea what I am talking about. But it is my birthday so bite me.

I'm trying to go out on the Premier on Saturday morning so I can write a review of it. For some reason I am in a burst of reviewing these days. Lots of cool boats to sail, I am very lucky!

#239 Icedtea

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:05 AM

mom, pop and 15 year old?

Jeez when I was 15 would have sailed anything....

#240 risk12

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 07:14 AM

F400 not that quick stuck on sand at Corlette.

#241 TBone

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:40 AM

Happy Birthday, Alan!

#242 Slim

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:44 AM

Farr 40? Crap!

Farr 400? 10X Crappier!

Wait til you see the Farr 4000 - friggin sweeeeet. Goddamm nano carbons and shit. First two have tillers made from Kareem Abdul Jabbar's femurs = faster than fuck!

Happy Birthday Clean!

#243 Donjoman

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:26 PM

The Cone is getting destroyed on handicap in Port Stephens Race week...

#244 Heriberto

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 02:46 PM

The Cone is getting destroyed on handicap in Port Stephens Race week...


The boat cannot fail, it can only be failed.

#245 Retired BN

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 06:18 PM

MC38 got the first two races today at CRW.

#246 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:15 PM

McConaghy was certainly faster than 400 - by quite a bit in the first race that we watched, and in a different time zone to F40 (charter boat, very very slow).

Wind was 12-16 today, with fairly big chop.

#247 Murphness

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:25 PM

McConaghy was certainly faster than 400 - by quite a bit in the first race that we watched, and in a different time zone to F40 (charter boat, very very slow).

Wind was 12-16 today, with fairly big chop.


Didn't see this posted before, but both have the same PHRF rating, -18. No elapsed times posted though....

Carbonado 1-1-1.

Nice Job!
GTC!

#248 Drop Bear.

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

Offshore bores me shitless.

It would be the mc38 for me from what I've read.

I better get saving.

#249 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 11:29 PM

Spoke to the teams, F400 is about the same speed upwind, but in this medium breeze the MC is up on a plane and the F400s are soaking and surfing occasionally, and planing occasionally. MC put a shitload of time on F400 on the one downwind leg I was able to watch most of.

Difference should be significantly less in >15, though I still think the MC is going to dust 'em downwind with that -750KG advantage.

#250 Christian

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 06:26 AM


McConaghy was certainly faster than 400 - by quite a bit in the first race that we watched, and in a different time zone to F40 (charter boat, very very slow).

Wind was 12-16 today, with fairly big chop.


Didn't see this posted before, but both have the same PHRF rating, -18. No elapsed times posted though....

Carbonado 1-1-1.

Nice Job!
GTC!


There are elapsed times if you click on the individual races - the MC beat the fastest F400 with 2, 2, 1 minutes in the three races (about 1 hour races) - that's quite a margin

#251 Murphness

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:05 PM



McConaghy was certainly faster than 400 - by quite a bit in the first race that we watched, and in a different time zone to F40 (charter boat, very very slow).

Wind was 12-16 today, with fairly big chop.


Didn't see this posted before, but both have the same PHRF rating, -18. No elapsed times posted though....

Carbonado 1-1-1.

Nice Job!
GTC!


There are elapsed times if you click on the individual races - the MC beat the fastest F400 with 2, 2, 1 minutes in the three races (about 1 hour races) - that's quite a margin


Ahh. Didn't notice the performance summary link before. Pretty nice to have data from KWRW too....Thanks!

We'll see what today brings!

#252 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 12:21 PM

On team premier now, heading out for a test sail now

#253 Murphness

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:24 PM

Carbonado: 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-DNC


Figured they'd be hurting in 6 knts of breeze with that fat ass but apparently they kept up the domination....Any first hand accounts?

#254 Left Hook

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Posted 22 April 2012 - 10:55 PM

Sounds to me like their PHRF rating needs a little review...

#255 Murphness

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:58 AM

Sounds to me like their PHRF rating needs a little review...


yea, looks like both boats need an adjustment....But in the spirit of this thread, it's pretty clear that the mc38 is faster in anything up to 15 knts.

#256 us7070

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:20 AM

and we call this a "sport"...

f-ing delusional..

this playing with boats..., it's not racing.

#257 brutus

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:54 AM

Earlier in the thread there were some polars posted for both boats that showed the Farr 400 faster in just about all breeze.
Is the Mc38 faster than the numbers, or were the Farr 400 numbers too optimistic in trying to sell early boats. Alot of these boats hype the polars then try to get a soft rating to get some early success.
I guess you can not have it both ways.
By the way both boats look awesome.

#258 mr_ryano

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:43 AM

Sounds to me like their PHRF rating needs a little review...


-24 in KW where they won their class to a -18 here...... That said, they sailed a great series and are really nice people

#259 Left Hook

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:25 AM


Sounds to me like their PHRF rating needs a little review...


-24 in KW where they won their class to a -18 here...... That said, they sailed a great series and are really nice people


They and their whole crew are great people. We hung out a fair bit at The Galleon Tiki Bar in key west during race week. That said... how did you get -24 from KWRW? We were racing under the HPR time correction factor formula and I didn't recall seeing a PHRF rating assigned (not that I couldn't have missed it) to the boat by the consortium.

#260 sumpin

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:46 AM

TWO WORDS end it.

O D. then this silly discussion stops. Really who cares what does what or who does who (I do enjoy a who did who story however) .. when you can pull rating changes OUT of your ASS. today YOU win, TOMORROW not so much. and if you are really good, NEVER eventually

if

youre

special

you can

get

the

gift

#261 Joakim

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 05:59 AM

At the same time the Austratian Mc38 Cone of Silence was last (except one DNC boat) in NSW IRC Championships. http://www.topyacht....s/irc/SGrp4.htm

#262 Mexican

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:18 AM

At the same time the Austratian Mc38 Cone of Silence was last (except one DNC boat) in NSW IRC Championships. http://www.topyacht....s/irc/SGrp4.htm

Interestingly, on IRC they beat the IRC-mod Farr40 (Anger Management) in all but one race and a DNF. On the water they beat the IRC-mod Farr40 across the line plus the RP42 (H/H Equinnox II) which was designed to perform under the IRC rule.

Mex

#263 geeaah

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:44 AM

Anger Managment is a Corby 43. :unsure:

#264 Mexican

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 06:56 AM

Anger Managment is a Corby 43. :unsure:

Yes it is, thanks for the correction.

#265 Gorn FRANTIC!!

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:22 AM

I think the conditions weren't too favourable for the MC38 at Port Stephens this year, the fleets more than likely spent more time under AP than actual racing, and when they did race most of it would have been less than 10 knots with the occasional gusts to 12, add to that some fairly sloppy swell at times I don't think the MC38 really liked those conditions, a few more knots of breeze could have made some difference. Also, I know the division splits are done using rating cut offs but I really think they should be looked at, having boats like Anger M(Corby 43) Yeah Baby(GP42) Equinox(RP42) The Cone(MC38) racing in the same division as 3 TP52's and an RP63 makes it almost impossible for them to get a result.

The main thing is neither the MC38 or F400 could claim they covered themselves in glory at Sail Port Stephens this year.

#266 Joakim

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:10 AM

having boats like Anger M(Corby 43) Yeah Baby(GP42) Equinox(RP42) The Cone(MC38) racing in the same division as 3 TP52's and an RP63 makes it almost impossible for them to get a result.


Why such a secrecy about boat types in Australia? Not even the entry list shows boat types. What boat is Celestial?

Why would it be almost impossible for the to get a result? Do you think the bigger boats have a rating advantage? Only four bigger boats shouldn't slow down the smaller ones that much and as they are clearly faster that shouldn't make a big difference in a two hour race.

#267 DickDastardly

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:16 AM


having boats like Anger M(Corby 43) Yeah Baby(GP42) Equinox(RP42) The Cone(MC38) racing in the same division as 3 TP52's and an RP63 makes it almost impossible for them to get a result.


Why such a secrecy about boat types in Australia? Not even the entry list shows boat types. What boat is Celestial?

Why would it be almost impossible for the to get a result? Do you think the bigger boats have a rating advantage? Only four bigger boats shouldn't slow down the smaller ones that much and as they are clearly faster that shouldn't make a big difference in a two hour race.

Celestial's a Rogers 46. Not hugely well sailed in general plus that design never did much on IRC anyway.

I don't get GF's comment - except perhaps for the Cone & the GP42 which have a completely punitive IRC ratings. I've beaten all the 52s and Loki sailing a pretty modest Cookson 12 - every boat has its day so I've no idea where that comment comes from.

#268 Jabbawocky

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:33 AM

What happened to the MC38 at Sail Port Stephens???

Was not there but from the results it looks like the Farr 400 was cleaning up the Farr 40's in flat water while the MC38 was struggling offshore, a long way behind in some races?

Who has the skinny?

#269 Gorn FRANTIC!!

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Were those wins in passage races or short course W/L DD?

#270 Melbourne A31

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:41 AM


having boats like Anger M(Corby 43) Yeah Baby(GP42) Equinox(RP42) The Cone(MC38) racing in the same division as 3 TP52's and an RP63 makes it almost impossible for them to get a result.


Why such a secrecy about boat types in Australia? Not even the entry list shows boat types. What boat is Celestial?

Why would it be almost impossible for the to get a result? Do you think the bigger boats have a rating advantage? Only four bigger boats shouldn't slow down the smaller ones that much and as they are clearly faster that shouldn't make a big difference in a two hour race.


There's no secrecy about the boat type, you need to look at another part of the website to see the entries in each division. It is a peculiarity of the TopYacht race entry and result software.
Do the bigger yachts have an advantage? That's a tough question. They certainly have better crews. To answer that question you would have to examine lots of race data (as I do) and formulate an opinion.

#271 BAR KARATE

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:09 AM

What happened to the MC38 at Sail Port Stephens???

Was not there but from the results it looks like the Farr 400 was cleaning up the Farr 40's in flat water while the MC38 was struggling offshore, a long way behind in some races?

Who has the skinny?

As said above anything above 10knts and she is gone very sticky in light breeze with bump .....

#272 TUBBY

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:03 AM


What happened to the MC38 at Sail Port Stephens???

Was not there but from the results it looks like the Farr 400 was cleaning up the Farr 40's in flat water while the MC38 was struggling offshore, a long way behind in some races?

Who has the skinny?

As said above anything above 10knts and she is gone very sticky in light breeze with bump .....


As someone sailing a 12 year old Farr 40 with 6 year old sails (& and a brand new assy, well new this year!), and did I mention a very amateur crew trying to single handedly rescue the Australian brewing industry? The 400 was not that impressive uphill even when we did get a bit of breeze. It was never clearly ahead of the 40s at the first mark.


Downhill even in the light stuff was a different matter, it had the legs on us and just got further way as the breeze increased, sometimes nearly all the way to ten knots!

The whole regatta was a long way from a good test though as most of the races were more about getting a good start and/or being in the right place when a stray puff did arrive. It was pretty easy to lose out big time if you missed a puff.

Have a good one.
TUBBY

My question about the 400 hundred though is, am I the only one who thinks it has had a quiet touch up with the ugly stick? Can't come at that reverse sheer.

#273 Mad Mac

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:42 AM

Tubbs, I agree with what you saw on all acounts.

Now, how do get an ugly girl into bed??

M
Z

#274 Edake

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:51 AM


What happened to the MC38 at Sail Port Stephens???

Was not there but from the results it looks like the Farr 400 was cleaning up the Farr 40's in flat water while the MC38 was struggling offshore, a long way behind in some races?

Who has the skinny?

As said above anything above 10knts and she is gone very sticky in light breeze with bump .....

Any chance of an Mc38 and the F400 racing in the CYCA winter series. Might even have a F40 in there for comparison. I like the note from Tubby. I do not think that 1-2minutes in front of the F40 was an impressive start by the F400 in its first series. Reckon they will improve but it would be good to see the Mc38 and F400 in a gun slinging at the CYCA series.

#275 Jabbawocky

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:29 PM

From the figures and talking to few people tonight it seems like the Farr 400 was going well down wind, but at least once the MC38 was way out the back door in her series.


Is that a fair summary ?

#276 Murphness

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 01:41 PM

TWO WORDS end it.

O D. then this silly discussion stops. Really who cares what does what or who does who (I do enjoy a who did who story however) .. when you can pull rating changes OUT of your ASS. today YOU win, TOMORROW not so much. and if you are really good, NEVER eventually

if

youre

special

you can

get

the

gift




I think the discussion was about which boat will be fastest, no? Agree about rating bullshit, but this line "pulled rating changes out of their ass" to win sounds a bit odd? I doubt they had much say in their rating....What is clear from 1st hand accounts and elapsed times is that they sailed some kick ass races. Hopefully both boats build big OD fleets as the'yre unique in their own rights, but it's great to see them all face off as well....

#277 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:23 PM

McConaghy had her biggest win of the week over F400 in 5 knots and big, big lump & swell. Won by more than 5 minutes over everyone on a 6 mile course.

I enjoyed the short sail I had on the F 400 and there are definitely plenty of reasons to buy a F400 over the other designs out there. Being fastest ain't one of them.

#278 sumpin

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:30 PM

little faster
little slower
hot look
not so hot look
comfy
not so comfy

now I get it

#279 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 02:53 PM

pretty much, but you forgot $umpin important

#280 Murphness

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 03:07 PM

pretty much, but you forgot $umpin important


Awesome

#281 The Cone

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:58 PM

Mexican is correct - it wasn't the boat, it was the sailors. All but one of the crew had never sailed on the boat and I (largely) hadn't sailed since last year. Sunday was better but we suffered a bit of bad luck - as tends to happen to the unprepared. Individually, our crew were talented but it's unrealistic to expect greatness first time out, especially in light and lumpy.

On the other side of the coin, this was the NSW IRC Champs and the other boats brought their A game and A teams - including the hired guns, sailmakers, etc. So not only were we slower than normal and they were better.

It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.

You have to remember The Cone is at least 4ft shorter and cost (at least) $600,000 less to launch than the next boat that the next boat in this grand prix fleet. I think says a lot about the MC 38 when people say it's a fail not to beat ALL of the bigger boats in every race.

Personally, I don't accept we would have been better off sailing in the 'kiddie pool' PHS division inshore like the Farr 400 did. I suspect it says the Farr 400 is unable to compete with the hot IRC boats and don't want the bad press. I'm not going to avoid racing the hot boats just to avoid bad press - what would be the point of that?

I notice someone commented it will be interesting to see how the Farr 400 and MC 38 go over winter series. Have they not read Mr Clean's reports from Charleston saying the one MC 38 is just a lot quicker than the three Farr 400s? Did they get that even the Farr 400 owners accept it and actually lodged a formal protest at Charleston (which was heard by a protest committed) to try to get their rating changed on the basis that the Farr 400 is clearly slower than the Mc 38.

So that Myth is Busted. We don't need the winter series to answer it.

As for the winter series, I'd hope that this kind of analysis of our results vs the Farr 400 wouldn't continue. It's a lottery out there in the winter anyway and I'm planning to take a lot of refreshments and have fun with my friends and not take things too serously. With that in mind I suspect our results are often not going to look too good on paper and might take some explaining - and it might be difficult to explain our strategy to those not there at the time. For example, one year during a glass out off Watson's Bay, the crew thought it would be a good idea to swim over to the pub and purchase further refreshments. Unfortunatley, the wind arrived back before they did.

This is a great example of how a very good idea can sometimes look like a bad one to those looking at the result sheet rather than consuming the refreshments.

#282 Murphness

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:32 PM

Mexican is correct - it wasn't the boat, it was the sailors. All but one of the crew had never sailed on the boat and I (largely) hadn't sailed since last year. Sunday was better but we suffered a bit of bad luck - as tends to happen to the unprepared. Individually, our crew were talented but it's unrealistic to expect greatness first time out, especially in light and lumpy.

On the other side of the coin, this was the NSW IRC Champs and the other boats brought their A game and A teams - including the hired guns, sailmakers, etc. So not only were we slower than normal and they were better.

It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.

You have to remember The Cone is at least 4ft shorter and cost (at least) $600,000 less to launch than the next boat that the next boat in this grand prix fleet. I think says a lot about the MC 38 when people say it's a fail not to beat ALL of the bigger boats in every race.

Personally, I don't accept we would have been better off sailing in the 'kiddie pool' PHS division inshore like the Farr 400 did. I suspect it says the Farr 400 is unable to compete with the hot IRC boats and don't want the bad press. I'm not going to avoid racing the hot boats just to avoid bad press - what would be the point of that?

I notice someone commented it will be interesting to see how the Farr 400 and MC 38 go over winter series. Have they not read Mr Clean's reports from Charleston saying the one MC 38 is just a lot quicker than the three Farr 400s? Did they get that even the Farr 400 owners accept it and actually lodged a formal protest at Charleston (which was heard by a protest committed) to try to get their rating changed on the basis that the Farr 400 is clearly slower than the Mc 38.

So that Myth is Busted. We don't need the winter series to answer it.

As for the winter series, I'd hope that this kind of analysis of our results vs the Farr 400 wouldn't continue. It's a lottery out there in the winter anyway and I'm planning to take a lot of refreshments and have fun with my friends and not take things too serously. With that in mind I suspect our results are often not going to look too good on paper and might take some explaining - and it might be difficult to explain our strategy to those not there at the time. For example, one year during a glass out off Watson's Bay, the crew thought it would be a good idea to swim over to the pub and purchase further refreshments. Unfortunatley, the wind arrived back before they did.

This is a great example of how a very good idea can sometimes look like a bad one to those looking at the result sheet rather than consuming the refreshments.


Well said. Enjoy the boat! Will be doing the same on the old Cone in a couple weeks...

#283 barefoot children

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:44 PM

Carbonado: 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-DNC


Figured they'd be hurting in 6 knts of breeze with that fat ass but apparently they kept up the domination....Any first hand accounts?


Friday was ~15 kts breeze with 2' chop.
Saturday was ~5kts breeze in flat water.
Sunday was 7' leftover rollers with 5kt breeze in opposite direction, surfing on one weather tack, kite flogging about downwind

Go to Photoboat for pictures of them all:
http://www.photoboatgallery.net/f566550624

#284 BoatSlut

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:17 PM

But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.


It seems a Bene 35 can beat a TP52 on IRC :D

http://www.cyca.com.au/sysfile/downloads/2011-2012summer/2011-montwi/SGrp10.htm
(and yes, kites were used)

#285 Jabbawocky

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

The owner of The Cone of Silence said

' It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. '

Thats a pretty bold statement from a boat that came last in the division.

What evidence was there on the water of that?

#286 Windward Mark

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:40 PM


But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.


It seems a Bene 35 can beat a TP52 on IRC :D

http://www.cyca.com.au/sysfile/downloads/2011-2012summer/2011-montwi/SGrp10.htm
(and yes, kites were used)


And a Ker 40 too.... http://www.cyca.com....SOPS/SGrp12.htm

#287 Windward Mark

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 10:44 PM

The owner of The Cone of Silence said

' It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. '

Thats a pretty bold statement from a boat that came last in the division.

What evidence was there on the water of that?


What about the fact that the MC38 beat the GP42 every time they faced off against each other in the Monday spinnaker races with Greenie on the helm???? I know, not the same regatta, but the same boats. On IRC the boat would have been top 4 in most of the races, probably have won one and had a couple of 2nds....

#288 facthunt

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:42 PM


But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.


It seems a Bene 35 can beat a TP52 on IRC :D

http://www.cyca.com....ntwi/SGrp10.htm
(and yes, kites were used)



i would rather stay home and catch snails than fain interest on a bene, in fact i believe the cone has/had a bene wonder why he didnt take it instead of the mc donalds 38.

#289 facthunt

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:07 AM

The owner of The Cone of Silence said

' It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. '

Thats a pretty bold statement from a boat that came last in the division.

What evidence was there on the water of that?



thats because hes a bold man, i wouldnt call him pretty though.

theres no evidence of the boat coming last on the water, only last on the computer.

#290 Trickypig

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:24 AM


The owner of The Cone of Silence said

' It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. '

Thats a pretty bold statement from a boat that came last in the division.

What evidence was there on the water of that?


What about the fact that the MC38 beat the GP42 every time they faced off against each other in the Monday spinnaker races with Greenie on the helm???? I know, not the same regatta, but the same boats. On IRC the boat would have been top 4 in most of the races, probably have won one and had a couple of 2nds....


Actually Jamie steered some of the CYCA monday night spinnnaker races with Greenie on tactics.. and yes Cone was mostly faster through the water than Celestial, Yeah Baby and Kirribilli. Usually Cone would arrive at the top mark amongst the top boats but just light up off the wind and be second around the bottom mark to the TP52. I still dunno whether its competitive on IRC.
Maybe in some downhill ocean races it'll win silverware. Jamie spent some time in sportboats inshore, but the added dimension of doing offshore races is what made the original Cone so much fun. I suspect some of the races north are going to show the extraordinary downhill speed of an MC38, watch this space.

The best fun may well be the one design racing; the kite runs are going to be a lot of fun.

#291 Trickypig

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:27 AM



But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.


It seems a Bene 35 can beat a TP52 on IRC :D

http://www.cyca.com....ntwi/SGrp10.htm
(and yes, kites were used)



i would rather stay home and catch snails than fain interest on a bene, in fact i believe the cone has/had a bene wonder why he didnt take it instead of the mc donalds 38.


The Crone is sold.

#292 Edake

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:37 AM

Mexican is correct - it wasn't the boat, it was the sailors. All but one of the crew had never sailed on the boat and I (largely) hadn't sailed since last year. Sunday was better but we suffered a bit of bad luck - as tends to happen to the unprepared. Individually, our crew were talented but it's unrealistic to expect greatness first time out, especially in light and lumpy.

On the other side of the coin, this was the NSW IRC Champs and the other boats brought their A game and A teams - including the hired guns, sailmakers, etc. So not only were we slower than normal and they were better.

It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.

You have to remember The Cone is at least 4ft shorter and cost (at least) $600,000 less to launch than the next boat that the next boat in this grand prix fleet. I think says a lot about the MC 38 when people say it's a fail not to beat ALL of the bigger boats in every race.

Personally, I don't accept we would have been better off sailing in the 'kiddie pool' PHS division inshore like the Farr 400 did. I suspect it says the Farr 400 is unable to compete with the hot IRC boats and don't want the bad press. I'm not going to avoid racing the hot boats just to avoid bad press - what would be the point of that?

I notice someone commented it will be interesting to see how the Farr 400 and MC 38 go over winter series. Have they not read Mr Clean's reports from Charleston saying the one MC 38 is just a lot quicker than the three Farr 400s? Did they get that even the Farr 400 owners accept it and actually lodged a formal protest at Charleston (which was heard by a protest committed) to try to get their rating changed on the basis that the Farr 400 is clearly slower than the Mc 38.

So that Myth is Busted. We don't need the winter series to answer it.

As for the winter series, I'd hope that this kind of analysis of our results vs the Farr 400 wouldn't continue. It's a lottery out there in the winter anyway and I'm planning to take a lot of refreshments and have fun with my friends and not take things too serously. With that in mind I suspect our results are often not going to look too good on paper and might take some explaining - and it might be difficult to explain our strategy to those not there at the time. For example, one year during a glass out off Watson's Bay, the crew thought it would be a good idea to swim over to the pub and purchase further refreshments. Unfortunatley, the wind arrived back before they did.

This is a great example of how a very good idea can sometimes look like a bad one to those looking at the result sheet rather than consuming the refreshments.

A bit harsh my friend. I was only commenting on what we see here in Oz. I would not say that the CYCA winter series is not fair dinkum like you imply. For some they may use it for shits & giggles but some are out there to win. So you have noted that you are not out there to win - sobeit. A shame but heck sailing is supposed to be more than just winning right?

#293 Mexican

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 01:02 AM

A bit harsh my friend. I was only commenting on what we see here in Oz. I would not say that the CYCA winter series is not fair dinkum like you imply. For some they may use it for shits & giggles but some are out there to win. So you have noted that you are not out there to win - sobeit. A shame but heck sailing is supposed to be more than just winning right?

It's a performance handicap series where they adjust the handicaps after every race. There's at least 4 drops included in the series. Boats tend to plan to have bad races just to maintain a reasonable handicap.

It maybe fair dinkum, but, you can hardly take it too seriously. Great fun though.

Mex

#294 Rawhide

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:10 AM

I hear they just sold a fourth MC38 in Aus anyone know where and to whom?

#295 sumpin

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:20 AM

aaaaaand money

#296 Rawhide

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:34 AM

Mexican is correct - it wasn't the boat, it was the sailors. All but one of the crew had never sailed on the boat and I (largely) hadn't sailed since last year. Sunday was better but we suffered a bit of bad luck - as tends to happen to the unprepared. Individually, our crew were talented but it's unrealistic to expect greatness first time out, especially in light and lumpy.



It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC.

Winning the under 50ft band would put you in mid fleet and you would have to have picked up an average 7 minutes corrected per race (11 to win), a big ask in races generally not much longer than an hour. I doubt that the under 50ft band had all that many pro's on board
Down wind OK, but I struggle to believe the MC 38 will be competitive under IRC in windward leewards at that rating. That's not a criticism of the boat, it was never designed to race IRC.

#297 opusone

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 02:41 AM

Mexican is correct - it wasn't the boat, it was the sailors. All but one of the crew had never sailed on the boat and I (largely) hadn't sailed since last year. Sunday was better but we suffered a bit of bad luck - as tends to happen to the unprepared. Individually, our crew were talented but it's unrealistic to expect greatness first time out, especially in light and lumpy.

On the other side of the coin, this was the NSW IRC Champs and the other boats brought their A game and A teams - including the hired guns, sailmakers, etc. So not only were we slower than normal and they were better.

It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC. But it was equally obvious that none of the under 50ft boats can touch a TP 52 on IRC, not matter how well sailed they are.

You have to remember The Cone is at least 4ft shorter and cost (at least) $600,000 less to launch than the next boat that the next boat in this grand prix fleet. I think says a lot about the MC 38 when people say it's a fail not to beat ALL of the bigger boats in every race.

Personally, I don't accept we would have been better off sailing in the 'kiddie pool' PHS division inshore like the Farr 400 did. I suspect it says the Farr 400 is unable to compete with the hot IRC boats and don't want the bad press. I'm not going to avoid racing the hot boats just to avoid bad press - what would be the point of that?

I notice someone commented it will be interesting to see how the Farr 400 and MC 38 go over winter series. Have they not read Mr Clean's reports from Charleston saying the one MC 38 is just a lot quicker than the three Farr 400s? Did they get that even the Farr 400 owners accept it and actually lodged a formal protest at Charleston (which was heard by a protest committed) to try to get their rating changed on the basis that the Farr 400 is clearly slower than the Mc 38.

So that Myth is Busted. We don't need the winter series to answer it.

As for the winter series, I'd hope that this kind of analysis of our results vs the Farr 400 wouldn't continue. It's a lottery out there in the winter anyway and I'm planning to take a lot of refreshments and have fun with my friends and not take things too serously. With that in mind I suspect our results are often not going to look too good on paper and might take some explaining - and it might be difficult to explain our strategy to those not there at the time. For example, one year during a glass out off Watson's Bay, the crew thought it would be a good idea to swim over to the pub and purchase further refreshments. Unfortunatley, the wind arrived back before they did.

This is a great example of how a very good idea can sometimes look like a bad one to those looking at the result sheet rather than consuming the refreshments.


How do you go against the Rogers 46 upwind? Point, speed, etc. Just curious if the Rogers had any modifications - sq top main, larger kites, etc.

Thanks,

opusone

#298 sumpin

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 03:19 AM

what is a Rogers 46? Never heard of one, where are they, who has one, what is it..another PHRF board meeting I presume?

#299 Windward Mark

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:08 AM

I hear they just sold a fourth MC38 in Aus anyone know where and to whom?


Yup. Could tell you but then I'd have to kill ya and take your 38. :P

#300 Windward Mark

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 04:13 AM


Mexican is correct - it wasn't the boat, it was the sailors. All but one of the crew had never sailed on the boat and I (largely) hadn't sailed since last year. Sunday was better but we suffered a bit of bad luck - as tends to happen to the unprepared. Individually, our crew were talented but it's unrealistic to expect greatness first time out, especially in light and lumpy.



It was pretty obvious that if we sailed our boat as well the other teams sailed there's, the MC38 could have won the under 50ft band in Division 1 on IRC.

Winning the under 50ft band would put you in mid fleet and you would have to have picked up an average 7 minutes corrected per race (11 to win), a big ask in races generally not much longer than an hour. I doubt that the under 50ft band had all that many pro's on board
Down wind OK, but I struggle to believe the MC 38 will be competitive under IRC in windward leewards at that rating. That's not a criticism of the boat, it was never designed to race IRC.


Having sailed the 38 and the Ker 40, I struggle to think that the MC will beat the Ker across the line in a windward leeward race, so any chance of IRC results is a non event. The K40 struggles on up/down type courses as it is. Even in a passage race, hard downwind I can't see the MC holding it's time on the Ker. But as you say, it's not an IRC boat so who cares. Bring on a fleet of 8 of them, OD racing.




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