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Laser with an I14 rig


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#1 Rolfe'd

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:20 PM

This was shot this past weekend in Miami, notice that it's planing upwind in 5 knots.



#2 trenace

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:23 PM

Major props.

#3 ortegakid

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:28 PM

Very cool!, now it needs a Hansen main!

#4 Rolfe'd

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:35 PM

I think the hansen main would slow it down...

#5 Icedtea

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:52 PM

I would only approach sailing that thing with my rosary beads firmly stuffed in my lifejacket pocket...

#6 I'moutahere

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:55 PM

How long before it breaks in half?

#7 trenace

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:57 PM

I was hoping that there was considerable CF reinforcement done to handle the loads.

On the general idea: Having half (just for a number) the righting moment one "should" have for the rig will be interesting to see how it works. We had posts about lake racing somewhere off in Eastern Europe (Hungary I think) where they were racing Melges 24 singlehanded and so forth. They did okay though it sounds way off.

Of course, that's a light-air strategy, not something for suitable-all-around.

Let us know how this goes!!

#8 I'moutahere

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:04 PM

Looks like the rig of young Pudney's 14 that he had in the '99 worlds.

#9 Icedtea

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:16 PM

I would only sail that after alot of very hard praying :L

#10 DamnSkippy

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:21 PM

Sorry Dude, but the 'Contender' has been around for decades.

#11 Peter Johnstone

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:28 PM

That is a One Design 14 GP rig. Can see the old hardware. Main logo would also suggest this. Very cool. Who's boat?

#12 Rolfe'd

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:35 PM

Sorry Dude, but the 'Contender' has been around for decades.


Not with a massive spinnaker ;)

That is a One Design 14 GP rig. Can see the old hardware. Main logo would also suggest this. Very cool. Who's boat?


It's Luke/Eric Lawrence's

#13 OulaMan

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 10:39 PM

Sick boat. I imagine with the CE moved that far aft there would be some serious weather helm. Even in 5 knots of breeze with a very flat boat you can see him driving down.

#14 The box

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:05 PM

My brother and i have sailed it in 15-18 knots wothout the kite and it was slightly hard to bear away and make it yet The helm isn't that bad through the wind increas
-it's a big rig of a 1995 US 14

#15 trenace

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:19 PM

What are your weights, if you could share the information? Thanks!

#16 Reht

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:45 PM

Is it so wrong to think that it didn't look terrible? I mean, the hull shape with a bit of modification (moving CE/CLR around a bit, nicer rails for trapping, etc) seems like it doesn't mind the power, and the rig with a bit of modernization could be real neat.

Nice job guys, definitely want to see this progress.

#17 Somebody Else

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:23 AM

I can't see the Laser construction holding up to more load.

Hell, it can't eve hold up to the load of the normal rig.
Granted they may have made some improvements in construction since my day, but I was able to twist the boat on its longitudinal axis just by hiking my 190-pound ass with the stock rig. The mast step/tube/whatever is not exactly enshrined in the engineering hall of fame...

#18 MR.CLEAN

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:33 AM

The Laser without a rig weighs what, like 140 pounds or so? That's only forty pounds less than the OD-14 would've been. Seems like just the right amount of power. :P

#19 slap drone

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:38 AM

that IS a Franken rig, but your camerawork is great!

#20 Rolfe'd

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:40 AM

that IS a Franken rig, but your camerawork is great!


Thanks, I was kicking myself for how shaky it was in some spots, I'm going to make a stabilized mini-boom eventually for stuff like this.

#21 wes5

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:33 AM

that IS a Franken rig, but your camerawork is great!


I like the underwater shots. That can't be easy with more than just a knot or two of speed.

#22 GladysHaywood

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 02:56 AM

the hansen main would slow it downPosted Image

#23 zerothehero

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:19 AM

cool. Love franken-boats!

#24 rcishellafun

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:54 AM

Anybody know the song thats playing?

#25 jimmy kneewrecker

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:02 AM

It's cool, definitely cool, but by no means the first of its kind.

A Brit did something similar a few years ago, with a more modest sail plan. In fact it's what led to the development of the RS100:

Posted Image

Posted Image



Full Account here, but 10MB PDF...

http://rs100sailing....development.pdf

#26 Rolfe'd

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 10:53 AM

Anybody know the song thats playing?


It's in the video description - Finally Moving by Pretty Lights

#27 yeatesey

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 11:37 AM

waste of a perfectly good I14 rig. Can they send in a video of it imploding in 30kts of breeze? My money would go on the bow snapping off around the mast base due to the extra compression from the mast and bow lift from the spinnaker pole.

#28 Bsquared

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:43 PM

Awesomeness! Where does the chute go when it's down; is there a retrieval line or do you just haul on the sheet? I want to see a douse in breeze video :-)

#29 High Flow

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:52 PM

ok, not bad
i too had the idea
i guess everybody who is used to trapez-boats thought about it (in one way or another), while hicking there hairy asses out of the ultimate 4ksb.
the most striking thing too me:
people actually do have too much time.
moneywise? i wouldn't spend a pound, but if the stuff is lying around? why not...
but the time!!!!
in my young days i converted a contender with a assym. i used an opti boom with its fork around the mast and one set of stays from midway to the bow. i used an old symm kite (can't remeber which boat is was from ) and it was ok. never had it up in shit loads of wind but still it was cool.
no, i don't have any pictures (imagin that), but i've seen some other pics with kited contenders.
anyway, keep up the frankenstein thing. in all classes.
please do

#30 fprintf

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:15 PM

Love it, can't wait to see more. This would fill the lIght air hole until the real fun, kiting and mothing, can begin!!!

#31 BarePoles

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

Did you notify your local PHRF committee about the modifications? Hope so...

#32 tikipete

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:21 PM

Very nice, I like.

#33 Liquid

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 04:27 PM

I think the hansen main would slow it down...


Why would that be?

#34 Asymptote

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 05:57 PM

Bump

#35 Sol Rosenberg

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 06:59 PM

Saw it done with a 470 mast on a Laser, nicknamed a "LaTender". Good stuff.

#36 Rolfe'd

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:17 PM

*Shameless bump to get this out from under all the occupy BS

#37 narecet

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:51 PM

Do you know about what the sail area is, and the crew weights?

If it were a current I14 mainsail I'd suppose about 12.5 m2 as a rough guess, but apparently it's a One Design GP.

The reason is, it could help show how far sailing-area-for-righing-moment can be pushed for a light-air play boat. Thanks!

#38 jt9686

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:52 PM

*Shameless bump to get this out from under all the occupy BS


+1

#39 Rolfe'd

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:07 PM

Do you know about what the sail area is, and the crew weights?

If it were a current I14 mainsail I'd suppose about 12.5 m2 as a rough guess, but apparently it's a One Design GP.

The reason is, it could help show how far sailing-area-for-righing-moment can be pushed for a light-air play boat. Thanks!


Crew weight is probably about 175, not sure about sail area.

#40 narecet

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:07 PM

Thank you!

#41 tikipete

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:16 PM

How 'bout a set of wings from a Hobie FX1?

#42 Rolfe'd

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:30 PM

How 'bout a set of wings from a Hobie FX1?


That or racks to get the crew out further would be overkill on top of overkill, but sick nonetheless.

#43 narecet

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:35 PM

It seems to me that rather than overkill, it would be better matching righting moment to sail area. Of course the rig ordinarily has a jib as well, but it would have two on trapeze, too.

#44 tikipete

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:42 PM

laser 2?

#45 Mark K

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:10 AM

Great project. Major boo-yaa's to ya's.

Can you right it?

#46 Rolfe'd

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:17 AM

Great project. Major boo-yaa's to ya's.

Can you right it?


Yeah, he flipped once during that session and it didn't seem to be much of a problem.

#47 Vee

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:18 AM

laser 2?


Yup. Seems pretty obvious really.

#48 Squirmy

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:33 AM

Nice video work, Rolfe'd.

And for fuck's sake,

WHAT'S IT RATE?

#49 Parson

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 02:11 AM

Isn't it a contender with a kite? :lol:


?????? What an idiot?

#50 Mark K

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 02:13 AM

Isn't it a contender with a kite? :lol:


?????? What an idiot?


Why idiot?

#51 Problem Child

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 03:54 AM

I started on a very similar project 20 years ago with a Laser hull I bought for 10 bucks and a free 505 rig. The hull had the mast step ripped out so an easy matter to cut a hole big enough to slip in some reinforcing bulkheads to handle the mast compression loads. Ended up in a landfill though when I started building my first boat. Hadn't planned on a chute though... nice work!

#52 Rolfe'd

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:07 PM

Isn't it a contender with a kite? :lol:


?????? What an idiot?


No, a Contender main is a lot smaller :D

#53 Poop

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 04:30 PM

Beavis Lawrence please, he changed his name

#54 F-18 5150

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 08:23 PM

bump

#55 mh111

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:24 PM


Sorry Dude, but the 'Contender' has been around for decades.


Not with a massive spinnaker ;)

That is a One Design 14 GP rig. Can see the old hardware. Main logo would also suggest this. Very cool. Who's boat?


It's Luke/Eric Lawrence's


yeah, i've gota say for the first part the video i was also thinking ho hum...contender. but then saw the kite...hmmmmm...getting that up and down must be entertaining ! :lol:

well done

cheers,

#56 -Julian-

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 09:33 PM

My First Laser (like a 1978 vintage) Came Used with a Spinaker.... Was questionable at the time. Now i Get it.

#57 tweaker

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 03:52 AM

Awesome and beautiful video. What a fun project. props to you.

#58 malisch

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 06:17 PM

Anybody know the song thats playing?


Pretty sure its "Finally Moving" by "Pretty Lights"

#59 tonyquoll

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Posted 18 March 2012 - 10:16 PM

Very interested to see this. Am currently looking at adding bowsprit, asymmetrical kite and trapeze to a "Leader" dinghy.

The Leader class was designed and built by Paul Kulmar in Sydney Australia, in the early 1980's.
It's 13' long, fine skiff nose on hull similar to Laser on the bottom, but with open, free draining deck on top.
The foam-core hulls are similar in design and construction to the Aero9 style NS14/MG14; just shorter and narrower.
It has 2 mast steps and 2 sets of rear stay hounds, so you can move the mast forward and sail 1-up cat rigged, or move aft for 2-up sloop rigged.
It has Yachting Vic yardstick of 117, slower than a Laser Radial (116).
With trapeze + asymmetric, this may drop to 108; similar to a Contender (107.5)

I only weigh 62kg, so am looking at a 10sq.m spinnaker. Expect to sail it 1-up mostly, but love the option of moving the mast, adding jib and going 2-up.
Am not worried about class rules; the Leader class is pretty much extinct these days anyway.
I'm seeing this as a cost effective way of getting a trap+kite style sports skiff. Expecting total cost around AUS$2000, compared to $6000 for 2nd hand MG with bowsprit (which would be too powerful for me to sail 1-up anyway), or $7500+ for 2nd hand RS100, or more for other things like RS Vareo, Musto Skiff.

A comment above about the hull breaking with the nose lifting up. The Leader has a big vertical support, between the hull bottom and deck under the 2 mast steps. I imagine that this offers longitudanal strength, but also limits placement and length of retracting bowsprit.

Questions:
- the frankenlaser has fixed bowsprit on the deck. Any problems with doing it that way?
- did you have to increase the rudder blade size?
- fun winter construction project, awesome next season toy, or what?

#60 rigguy

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 03:29 PM

It was just a matter of time. Wonder what took so long?

#61 The box

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

Awesomeness! Where does the chute go when it's down; is there a retrieval line or do you just haul on the sheet? I want to see a douse in breeze video :-)


haa me to, you just grab the sheet and stuff like crazzy, works pretty well if your not in a puff.

It was just a matter of time. Wonder what took so long?


thats what i said, so i did it

#62 The box

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:15 PM

Very cool!, now it needs a Hansen main!


Agreed, i think any up to date main will make worlds of difference.

#63 The box

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:22 PM

Very interested to see this. Am currently looking at adding bowsprit, asymmetrical kite and trapeze to a "Leader" dinghy.

The Leader class was designed and built by Paul Kulmar in Sydney Australia, in the early 1980's.
It's 13' long, fine skiff nose on hull similar to Laser on the bottom, but with open, free draining deck on top.
The foam-core hulls are similar in design and construction to the Aero9 style NS14/MG14; just shorter and narrower.
It has 2 mast steps and 2 sets of rear stay hounds, so you can move the mast forward and sail 1-up cat rigged, or move aft for 2-up sloop rigged.
It has Yachting Vic yardstick of 117, slower than a Laser Radial (116).
With trapeze + asymmetric, this may drop to 108; similar to a Contender (107.5)

I only weigh 62kg, so am looking at a 10sq.m spinnaker. Expect to sail it 1-up mostly, but love the option of moving the mast, adding jib and going 2-up.
Am not worried about class rules; the Leader class is pretty much extinct these days anyway.
I'm seeing this as a cost effective way of getting a trap+kite style sports skiff. Expecting total cost around AUS$2000, compared to $6000 for 2nd hand MG with bowsprit (which would be too powerful for me to sail 1-up anyway), or $7500+ for 2nd hand RS100, or more for other things like RS Vareo, Musto Skiff.

A comment above about the hull breaking with the nose lifting up. The Leader has a big vertical support, between the hull bottom and deck under the 2 mast steps. I imagine that this offers longitudanal strength, but also limits placement and length of retracting bowsprit.

Questions:
- the frankenlaser has fixed bowsprit on the deck. Any problems with doing it that way?
- did you have to increase the rudder blade size?
- fun winter construction project, awesome next season toy, or what?


sounds versatile
the fixed bowsprit inst a problem as long as you remember its there when racing other boats.....
the rudder is stock and refuses to bear away unless your on the wire but I sail out of Coral Reef Yacht club in Miami as much as i can, getting ready for the Miami to key largo race in mid April.

#64 The box

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Posted 19 March 2012 - 08:47 PM

Do you know about what the sail area is, and the crew weights?

If it were a current I14 mainsail I'd suppose about 12.5 m2 as a rough guess, but apparently it's a One Design GP.

The reason is, it could help show how far sailing-area-for-righing-moment can be pushed for a light-air play boat. Thanks!


all the rigging is from a 1995 14 GP boat, not quite sure what the numbers are.

#65 BalticBandit

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 02:01 AM

I've got some video of myself on a similar Franken Lasser II - let me dig it up.

#66 TD Floater

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 04:42 AM

Very interested to see this. Am currently looking at adding bowsprit, asymmetrical kite and trapeze to a "Leader" dinghy.

The Leader class was designed and built by Paul Kulmar in Sydney Australia, in the early 1980's.
It's 13' long, fine skiff nose on hull similar to Laser on the bottom, but with open, free draining deck on top.
The foam-core hulls are similar in design and construction to the Aero9 style NS14/MG14; just shorter and narrower.
It has 2 mast steps and 2 sets of rear stay hounds, so you can move the mast forward and sail 1-up cat rigged, or move aft for 2-up sloop rigged.
It has Yachting Vic yardstick of 117, slower than a Laser Radial (116).
With trapeze + asymmetric, this may drop to 108; similar to a Contender (107.5)

I only weigh 62kg, so am looking at a 10sq.m spinnaker. Expect to sail it 1-up mostly, but love the option of moving the mast, adding jib and going 2-up.
Am not worried about class rules; the Leader class is pretty much extinct these days anyway.
I'm seeing this as a cost effective way of getting a trap+kite style sports skiff. Expecting total cost around AUS$2000, compared to $6000 for 2nd hand MG with bowsprit (which would be too powerful for me to sail 1-up anyway), or $7500+ for 2nd hand RS100, or more for other things like RS Vareo, Musto Skiff.

A comment above about the hull breaking with the nose lifting up. The Leader has a big vertical support, between the hull bottom and deck under the 2 mast steps. I imagine that this offers longitudanal strength, but also limits placement and length of retracting bowsprit.
Had similar idea with a Leader, but got back to Northies and will do NS/MG.

Questions:
- the frankenlaser has fixed bowsprit on the deck. Any problems with doing it that way?
- did you have to increase the rudder blade size?
- fun winter construction project, awesome next season toy, or what?

ask RohanOz for some pics on an Aero 6 to MG conversion.
I wouldn't compare the Leader with a 9, perhaps a 4, although Paul could have been 15 years ahead of Michael Nash.




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