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Dalton Blasts Designer


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#201 bruno

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 05:53 AM

One of the cockpit shots of AD seems to show tarps, plastic, and duct tape covering some of the cockpit structures, leaky?

#202 SemiSalt

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:37 PM

[Pardon me if this question should be in a different thread.]

Given the carnage in the fleet, is there any thought that none of the boats are as strong as they should be?

#203 narecet

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Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:48 PM

I think it's a reasonable question as to whether there would be net loss of profit to teams and sponsors from adopting say 10% heavier scantlings and specifications, or gain from having fewer failures.

Yes, there's a lot to be said for being "the fastest possible" but would this relatively small difference really reduce viewership etc? The boats would still be extraordinary, with nothing else like them.

#204 harzak

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 04:52 PM

I think it's a reasonable question as to whether there would be net loss of profit to teams and sponsors from adopting say 10% heavier scantlings and specifications, or gain from having fewer failures.

Yes, there's a lot to be said for being "the fastest possible" but would this relatively small difference really reduce viewership etc? The boats would still be extraordinary, with nothing else like them.

Good if they'd be able to break the monohull 24h record (preferably also in worse than perfect sea state), otherwise bad.

#205 Indio

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Posted 31 March 2012 - 08:05 PM

Whats it like when the NZ Youth team is cut back because of lack of funding? You like alot of Kiwis have your head up your arse when it comes to the reality of our sport. Can you please explain why we are doing the AC and using old pricks on the Volvo? But hey with the $100 mill Dalts will spend it can only be better for the sport right? So what happened to the knock effect of all the other AC's? Nothing you ignorant prick..........


What's it like having all that cancerous bitterness chomping away at your insides?! Thought about a bungy jump off Sky Tower!?Posted Image

Youth sailing has always been funded by those who can afford it the most - parents. If the NZ Youth team suffers from "lack of funding", then those responsible need to try a little harder to secure sponsorship. Getting all bitter and twisted and whining about ETNZ's funding which they've gone out and sourced is a bit like blaming John Key for your living in the doghouse., loser!




#206 SW Sailor

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 06:32 AM

Asked if he had confronted the designer yet, Dalton said: "No, well I haven't actually. It's there for him to see and me to see. I just guess we aren't going to be building any boats together again."


Stay classy Grant.


That's a big ask.

#207 Scarecrow

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 07:27 AM

I think it's a reasonable question as to whether there would be net loss of profit to teams and sponsors from adopting say 10% heavier scantlings and specifications, or gain from having fewer failures.

Yes, there's a lot to be said for being "the fastest possible" but would this relatively small difference really reduce viewership etc? The boats would still be extraordinary, with nothing else like them.

Good if they'd be able to break the monohull 24h record (preferably also in worse than perfect sea state), otherwise bad.

Building stronger boats won't make them any safer the crews will know they're "stronger" and push them harder. If you want the race to be safer you have to add LA as a stop over.

#208 thetruth

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 08:37 AM

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your comment was? Leave it to the parents? So if your parents aren't rich then the kid does not go sailing? You are a world class prick if that is your attitude. Try harder to get sponsorship? Are you joking? How can they compete when you and your mates at ETNZ rape the sport in order to satisfy huge mortgages and millionaire lifestyles? Possibly the most ignorant post ever on SA.



Whats it like when the NZ Youth team is cut back because of lack of funding? You like alot of Kiwis have your head up your arse when it comes to the reality of our sport. Can you please explain why we are doing the AC and using old pricks on the Volvo? But hey with the $100 mill Dalts will spend it can only be better for the sport right? So what happened to the knock effect of all the other AC's? Nothing you ignorant prick..........

What's it like having all that cancerous bitterness chomping away at your insides?! Thought about a bungy jump off Sky Tower!?Posted Image

Youth sailing has always been funded by those who can afford it the most - parents. If the NZ Youth team suffers from "lack of funding", then those responsible need to try a little harder to secure sponsorship. Getting all bitter and twisted and whining about ETNZ's funding which they've gone out and sourced is a bit like blaming John Key for your living in the doghouse., loser!





#209 bbr

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Posted 01 April 2012 - 01:30 PM

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your comment was? Leave it to the parents? So if your parents aren't rich then the kid does not go sailing? You are a world class prick if that is your attitude. Try harder to get sponsorship? Are you joking? How can they compete when you and your mates at ETNZ rape the sport in order to satisfy huge mortgages and millionaire lifestyles? Possibly the most ignorant post ever on SA.


Hey Balls, we were just talking about you on the dock in St Barths last week... how the ^&$£"(* are you?

Basic

#210 thetruth

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 09:25 AM

On fire as always, How was that Kiwi cunt saying you have to have rich parents whilst Dalts and his mates spend a $100 mill on themselves?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your comment was? Leave it to the parents? So if your parents aren't rich then the kid does not go sailing? You are a world class prick if that is your attitude. Try harder to get sponsorship? Are you joking? How can they compete when you and your mates at ETNZ rape the sport in order to satisfy huge mortgages and millionaire lifestyles? Possibly the most ignorant post ever on SA.


Hey Balls, we were just talking about you on the dock in St Barths last week... how the ^&$£"(* are you?

Basic



#211 Indio

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Posted 02 April 2012 - 10:59 AM

Do you have any idea how ridiculous your comment was? Leave it to the parents? So if your parents aren't rich then the kid does not go sailing? You are a world class prick if that is your attitude. Try harder to get sponsorship? Are you joking? How can they compete when you and your mates at ETNZ rape the sport in order to satisfy huge mortgages and millionaire lifestyles? Possibly the most ignorant post ever on SA.



Whats it like when the NZ Youth team is cut back because of lack of funding? You like alot of Kiwis have your head up your arse when it comes to the reality of our sport. Can you please explain why we are doing the AC and using old pricks on the Volvo? But hey with the $100 mill Dalts will spend it can only be better for the sport right? So what happened to the knock effect of all the other AC's? Nothing you ignorant prick..........

What's it like having all that cancerous bitterness chomping away at your insides?! Thought about a bungy jump off Sky Tower!?Posted Image

Youth sailing has always been funded by those who can afford it the most - parents. If the NZ Youth team suffers from "lack of funding", then those responsible need to try a little harder to secure sponsorship. Getting all bitter and twisted and whining about ETNZ's funding which they've gone out and sourced is a bit like blaming John Key for your living in the doghouse., loser!



So what are you doing about "funding Youth Sailing" apart from whining like a bitch on SAORA? Not very successfully, one surmises Posted ImagePosted Image

#212 thetruth

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Posted 04 April 2012 - 07:18 AM

Quite alot as usual. And you are? Talk to a recent Optimist WC or the National Youth Coach if you are even remotely interested prick.



Do you have any idea how ridiculous your comment was? Leave it to the parents? So if your parents aren't rich then the kid does not go sailing? You are a world class prick if that is your attitude. Try harder to get sponsorship? Are you joking? How can they compete when you and your mates at ETNZ rape the sport in order to satisfy huge mortgages and millionaire lifestyles? Possibly the most ignorant post ever on SA.



Whats it like when the NZ Youth team is cut back because of lack of funding? You like alot of Kiwis have your head up your arse when it comes to the reality of our sport. Can you please explain why we are doing the AC and using old pricks on the Volvo? But hey with the $100 mill Dalts will spend it can only be better for the sport right? So what happened to the knock effect of all the other AC's? Nothing you ignorant prick..........

What's it like having all that cancerous bitterness chomping away at your insides?! Thought about a bungy jump off Sky Tower!?Posted Image

Youth sailing has always been funded by those who can afford it the most - parents. If the NZ Youth team suffers from "lack of funding", then those responsible need to try a little harder to secure sponsorship. Getting all bitter and twisted and whining about ETNZ's funding which they've gone out and sourced is a bit like blaming John Key for your living in the doghouse., loser!



So what are you doing about "funding Youth Sailing" apart from whining like a bitch on SAORA? Not very successfully, one surmises Posted ImagePosted Image



#213 Heriberto

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 06:03 PM

After the last several days, and the Puma commentary on the front page, can we put to rest the "Clifford" talk? Dalts was pretty clearly in CYA mode.

#214 Ballast Technician

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 06:25 AM

After the last several days, and the Puma commentary on the front page, can we put to rest the "Clifford" talk? Dalts was pretty clearly in CYA mode.


Nothing much new: The boat still has an edge upwind and possibly slightly so downwind, but is significantly slower on most other angles. Lots of work on the sail program to address some of the issues, but it is what it is (and what it has been).

#215 thetruth

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:22 AM

Reality check. Grant Dalton has never won the AC. He gets to spend $150 MILLION on a whim with his mates and be unacountable to anyone including the NZ Goverment. Has to be the best job in the world without having to be accountable



.

After the last several days, and the Puma commentary on the front page, can we put to rest the "Clifford" talk? Dalts was pretty clearly in CYA mode.


Nothing much new: The boat still has an edge upwind and possibly slightly so downwind, but is significantly slower on most other angles. Lots of work on the sail program to address some of the issues, but it is what it is (and what it has been).



#216 Heriberto

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 04:13 PM

So Clifford wins the final leg, and 2nd place overall, in an upwind, reaching, running boatspeed drag race.

This thread needs to be saved for posterity.

#217 jeronimo2

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:08 PM

So Clifford wins the final leg, and 2nd place overall, in an upwind, reaching, running boatspeed drag race.

This thread needs to be saved for posterity.


+1

#218 Rohanoz

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:50 AM

And +1 for the punters who were saying Nicko was going to be sacked in Auckland. Team stuck together proudly.

#219 Vincent

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 05:54 PM

Interview of Chris Nicholson in French regional newspaper Ouest-France:

http://www.ouest-fra...s-88_filDMA.Htm


Le bateau avait été construit pour ça, l’équipage sélectionné pour la victoire, que s’est-il passé ? Grant Dalton, le patron de l’écurie Team New-Zealand est très remonté contre l’architecte !

On a certainement fait l’objet de critiques très sévères au regard des mauvaises performances du bateau. Dans les trois premières manches, très longues, on paie au prix fort notre façon de naviguer et le type de carène choisie par rapport aux performances attendues du bateau. Mais au fur et à mesure, on le prend mieux en main, on a aussi une météo plus conforme aux attentes et à ce qui correspond mieux à notre bateau. Dans la dernière, on voit bien que tout marche mieux. Le bateau va vite, on est efficaces, compétitifs, et on obtient un beau résultat. Je pense que c’est facile de tout mettre sur le dos du bateau. Au final, on occupe une belle place, un grand résultat avec cette deuxième place, ce qui signifie qu’il n’a pas été si mauvais que cela.


Translated:

The boat had been built for this purpose (NoT: winning), the crew selected for victory, what happend? Grant Dalton, the boss of ETNZ is very angry after the architect!

We certainly faced harsh critics regarding the performance of the boat. In the first, very long, three legs we pay a high price for our way to sail the boat and the type of hull shape chosen with respect to the expected performances of the boat. But gradually, we get more used to it, we also have weather closer to what we expected and suits the boat better. On the last leg, we can see that everything works better. The boat goes fast, we are efficient, competitive and we get a nice result. I think it's easy to put all the blame on the boat. In the end, we have a nice ranking, a great result with this second place, which means it wasn't such a bad boat.


Wonder if Dalts will publicly apologise....

#220 corkob

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 12:39 AM

I wouldn't hold my breath somehow

#221 geeaah

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 04:10 AM

And +1 for the punters who were saying Nicko was going to be sacked in Auckland. Team stuck together proudly.


Yes they have been very quiet on the subject given they were so sure of his alleged sudden demise.

#222 The Main Man

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:53 AM

Interview of Chris Nicholson in French regional newspaper Ouest-France:

http://www.ouest-fra...s-88_filDMA.Htm


Le bateau avait été construit pour ça, l’équipage sélectionné pour la victoire, que s’est-il passé ? Grant Dalton, le patron de l’écurie Team New-Zealand est très remonté contre l’architecte !

On a certainement fait l’objet de critiques très sévères au regard des mauvaises performances du bateau. Dans les trois premières manches, très longues, on paie au prix fort notre façon de naviguer et le type de carène choisie par rapport aux performances attendues du bateau. Mais au fur et à mesure, on le prend mieux en main, on a aussi une météo plus conforme aux attentes et à ce qui correspond mieux à notre bateau. Dans la dernière, on voit bien que tout marche mieux. Le bateau va vite, on est efficaces, compétitifs, et on obtient un beau résultat. Je pense que c’est facile de tout mettre sur le dos du bateau. Au final, on occupe une belle place, un grand résultat avec cette deuxième place, ce qui signifie qu’il n’a pas été si mauvais que cela.


Translated:

The boat had been built for this purpose (NoT: winning), the crew selected for victory, what happend? Grant Dalton, the boss of ETNZ is very angry after the architect!

We certainly faced harsh critics regarding the performance of the boat. In the first, very long, three legs we pay a high price for our way to sail the boat and the type of hull shape chosen with respect to the expected performances of the boat. But gradually, we get more used to it, we also have weather closer to what we expected and suits the boat better. On the last leg, we can see that everything works better. The boat goes fast, we are efficient, competitive and we get a nice result. I think it's easy to put all the blame on the boat. In the end, we have a nice ranking, a great result with this second place, which means it wasn't such a bad boat.


Wonder if Dalts will publicly apologise....


Doubt it - he's still saying it's a slow boat on the Daily Sail interview:

So Dalton thinks the Camper boat is the slowest of the new designs. Why? “Because of a mistake. I am still cross about that. We just got it wrong. The Juan K boats are better and Marcelino [Botin] can answer it better, but I think it is an induced drag issue - we gave away what we believed was an induced drag created by higher stability, in other words you get more drag with stability and you couldn’t use it, but in fact you can. And I think their boards are a lot better than ours too. Basically we aren’t quick enough – the boat’s wrong.”

#223 paul gore

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 01:59 PM

The old grumpy man is still in denial...if their boat was so slow they would have come 4th or 5th by a long distance, not 2nd overall mate. But of course his crew was so much better that they could overcome the speed deficit and post a leg win and 4 second places...what a dickhead.

#224 Heriberto

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 03:46 PM

They are that good folks. They could have sailed a bathtub around the world and still come on top (they'll prove it in 2015, and Dalts loves that decision too....). Kiwi sailors can't fail, they can only be failed. And they were, by Botin and his slow boards and his tippy boat with less stability induced drag. He actually forced them to break the boat in the SO, which cost them the overall win, which they would have had nailed down back in January, sorry, October if it wasn't for his shit boat. Botin has a lot to answer for here. Just ask Grant Dalton, he'll tell you all about it.

#225 Kalimotxo

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 06:14 PM

They are that good folks. They could have sailed a bathtub around the world and still come on top (they'll prove it in 2015, and Dalts loves that decision too....). Kiwi sailors can't fail, they can only be failed. And they were, by Botin and his slow boards and his tippy boat with less stability induced drag. He actually forced them to break the boat in the SO, which cost them the overall win, which they would have had nailed down back in January, sorry, October if it wasn't for his shit boat. Botin has a lot to answer for here. Just ask Grant Dalton, he'll tell you all about it.


Coach Team Groupama asked why they won: " We worked very fast to improve our weak points. We took the bull by the horns since Alicante unlike certain other teams complaining 'Oh, we have a slow boat. Screw it...' :)

#226 Heriberto

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Posted 05 July 2012 - 11:20 PM

They are that good folks. They could have sailed a bathtub around the world and still come on top (they'll prove it in 2015, and Dalts loves that decision too....). Kiwi sailors can't fail, they can only be failed. And they were, by Botin and his slow boards and his tippy boat with less stability induced drag. He actually forced them to break the boat in the SO, which cost them the overall win, which they would have had nailed down back in January, sorry, October if it wasn't for his shit boat. Botin has a lot to answer for here. Just ask Grant Dalton, he'll tell you all about it.


Coach Team Groupama asked why they won: " We worked very fast to improve our weak points. We took the bull by the horns since Alicante unlike certain other teams complaining 'Oh, we have a slow boat. Screw it...' :)


Ha ha.

Kalimotxo, are you seriously questioning Grant Dalton? These kiwi guys are, damn, there aren't words to describe how good they really are. Just good. Real, real good. "Peerless" you might say. Groupama doesn't know how lucky they are. They kid themselves they are in the same league as Dalts Camper boys. Camper was fucked from the start. Fucked GD says, and it was only through sheer force of will that they took the slowest of the new generation boats and deked out a lowly second place overall, while winning the final offshore leg, despite nearly flaying the boat into micro-shards like a hunk of Nabisco Shredded Wheat* in the southern ocean, without which "Botin-inspired event", they would have won.

But wait. What? What? Huh? Dalts never heard about that occurence (certainly hasn't been passed on as mentioned)! Stability induced drag coefficiency apartment $4000/month available right away with first last down and deposit. That's the ticket for a general ass-covering, freak-out, premature loss of faith in boat and crew.

It takes a certain kind of guy to throw a colleague under the bus before the facts are in for positive. Good to know who they are.

*Nabisco Shredded Wheat, proud sponsor of the 2014-2015 Volvo Ocean Race.

#227 thetruth

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 08:36 AM

Did he win? Are they winning ACWS?



They are that good folks. They could have sailed a bathtub around the world and still come on top (they'll prove it in 2015, and Dalts loves that decision too....). Kiwi sailors can't fail, they can only be failed. And they were, by Botin and his slow boards and his tippy boat with less stability induced drag. He actually forced them to break the boat in the SO, which cost them the overall win, which they would have had nailed down back in January, sorry, October if it wasn't for his shit boat. Botin has a lot to answer for here. Just ask Grant Dalton, he'll tell you all about it.


Coach Team Groupama asked why they won: " We worked very fast to improve our weak points. We took the bull by the horns since Alicante unlike certain other teams complaining 'Oh, we have a slow boat. Screw it...' :)


Ha ha.

Kalimotxo, are you seriously questioning Grant Dalton? These kiwi guys are, damn, there aren't words to describe how good they really are. Just good. Real, real good. "Peerless" you might say. Groupama doesn't know how lucky they are. They kid themselves they are in the same league as Dalts Camper boys. Camper was fucked from the start. Fucked GD says, and it was only through sheer force of will that they took the slowest of the new generation boats and deked out a lowly second place overall, while winning the final offshore leg, despite nearly flaying the boat into micro-shards like a hunk of Nabisco Shredded Wheat* in the southern ocean, without which "Botin-inspired event", they would have won.

But wait. What? What? Huh? Dalts never heard about that occurence (certainly hasn't been passed on as mentioned)! Stability induced drag coefficiency apartment $4000/month available right away with first last down and deposit. That's the ticket for a general ass-covering, freak-out, premature loss of faith in boat and crew.

It takes a certain kind of guy to throw a colleague under the bus before the facts are in for positive. Good to know who they are.

*Nabisco Shredded Wheat, proud sponsor of the 2014-2015 Volvo Ocean Race.



#228 Guvacine

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 06:16 PM

Overheard in a crowded bar on the Auckland waterfront:

"Kiwis are fucking special, mate"

"I know mate - how fucking special?"

"Kiwis are so fucking special, they could take an old iron bath tub and shower curtain and sail past Ben Ainslie in his Finn"

"That's nothing mate. Kiwis are so fucking special they could..... "

#229 desi1

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:19 PM

They are that good folks. They could have sailed a bathtub around the world and still come on top (they'll prove it in 2015, and Dalts loves that decision too....). Kiwi sailors can't fail, they can only be failed. And they were, by Botin and his slow boards and his tippy boat with less stability induced drag. He actually forced them to break the boat in the SO, which cost them the overall win, which they would have had nailed down back in January, sorry, October if it wasn't for his shit boat. Botin has a lot to answer for here. Just ask Grant Dalton, he'll tell you all about it.


Coach Team Groupama asked why they won: " We worked very fast to improve our weak points. We took the bull by the horns since Alicante unlike certain other teams complaining 'Oh, we have a slow boat. Screw it...' :)


Ha ha.

Kalimotxo, are you seriously questioning Grant Dalton? These kiwi guys are, damn, there aren't words to describe how good they really are. Just good. Real, real good. "Peerless" you might say. Groupama doesn't know how lucky they are. They kid themselves they are in the same league as Dalts Camper boys. Camper was fucked from the start. Fucked GD says, and it was only through sheer force of will that they took the slowest of the new generation boats and deked out a lowly second place overall, while winning the final offshore leg, despite nearly flaying the boat into micro-shards like a hunk of Nabisco Shredded Wheat* in the southern ocean, without which "Botin-inspired event", they would have won.

But wait. What? What? Huh? Dalts never heard about that occurence (certainly hasn't been passed on as mentioned)! Stability induced drag coefficiency apartment $4000/month available right away with first last down and deposit. That's the ticket for a general ass-covering, freak-out, premature loss of faith in boat and crew.

It takes a certain kind of guy to throw a colleague under the bus before the facts are in for positive. Good to know who they are.

*Nabisco Shredded Wheat, proud sponsor of the 2014-2015 Volvo Ocean Race.


Sorry but english is not my native language. i might look like a moron but is there irony in the post or...?

#230 Guvacine

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:29 PM

Yeah, sorry Desi 1. Its a bit of a big ask. To "get it" you'd need a cultural heritage including both Monty Python and Rodney Rude.

#231 couchsurfer

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 07:30 PM


Sorry but english is not my native language. i might look like a moron but is there irony in the post or...?


..not't'worry,DES,,,I'm pretty sure there's some irony there,,,his way of 'welcoming' you,,
,,,,,MUCH gentler than others! :unsure:



.........now, -show us some tits- or get lost** <_<



........**....the more standard SA welcome :)

#232 Icedtea

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Posted 06 July 2012 - 11:34 PM

Where is the argument in this thread?


The boat came second!!!! It can't be that bad!

#233 Heriberto

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Posted 07 July 2012 - 03:17 AM

Sorry Desi. Yes all sarcasm.

Most hilarious is GD doubling down. The boat wasn't just "slower", it was THE slowest of the new gen boats. So if you are on Abu Dhabi, how do you like hearing that?

Nice. GD may give good copy but the line he is selling is so ludicrous he comes off as way past sell date.