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#101 Dude

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:04 PM

Hey Tom O'Keefe!

Ditto......enjoyed following you around on my brand spanking new Columbia 32C..

good times!


@ NYB

You sailed well, invite me on a test sail next time you go out? You guys are now in the hunt for "The Newport High Point Series"

http://lenboseyachts.blogspot.com/

2012 High Point Series


Midwinters 66 Series Ahmanson

1. Tango = 11 12 21 = 44
2. Amante 11 25 = 36
3. Dare 33 = 33
4. Rebel Yell 32 = 32
5. Still Crazy 31 = 31
6. Itís OK 30 = 30
7. Rio 29 = 29
8. Stark Raving Mad IV 28 = 28
9. exigent 5 22 =27
9. Checkmate 27 = 27
11. Emirage II 26 = 26
12. Adios = 9 9 6 = 24
12. Bien Roulee 24 = 24
14. Seven One Six 23 = 23
15. Old School 10 11 = 21
16. PussyCat= 8 4 8 = 20
16. No Rationing 20 =20
18. Patriot 19 = 19
19. Ragtime 18 = 18
20. Violetta= 10 7 = 17
20. Twister 17 = 17
22. Heartbeat 2 16 = 16
23. Adrenalin 15 = 15
24. Pendragon II 14 = 14
25. Reliance= 7 6 = 13

#102 Somebody Else

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:07 PM

it [NHYC] is no better than bcyc and god forbid anyone at nhyc look upon themselves as equal to bcyc. the fransworth's are not amused to be compared to bcyc.

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This is serious GOLD! I am definitely going to shop this one around!

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#103 DoRag

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:07 PM

We had great fun aboard the Hobie. And, isn't that what it's all about having fun? The intensity level at the start may not have been there. But, Having the entire fleet chomping down on you in the last two legs sure brought the intensity level back up. There are still One Design regatta's that everyone can sail in, if that's what you want to do. But, if you're into racing just for the fun this regatta definitely put some variety into the schedule.


The point being is that the Ahmanson used to be on the circuit for the bigger boat one design fleets (F40, J105, J120) that rotated between harbors on a schedule that was reasonable efficient and economical: Ahmanson, Ensenada, Yachting (Ton) Cup, Lipton Cup, North Sails Race Week, Cal RW. The sailing was fun and highly competitive and delivery hassles were minimized. And the turnouts were 2X or 3X what we see today.




And you blame the fact this does not exist any longer on chrome polishers?


Well, the chrome polishers (to be more precise - those that pay the chrome polishers)are now running the YCs and making decisions to discourage the very fleets I was talking about...

Your turn...

#104 NYBOZO1

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:09 PM

Love to Dude, but packing the boat up shortly to ship to Lake Erie.

Mr . Valdez builds a quality piece of equipment.

#105 Somebody Else

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:16 PM

Love to Dude, but packing the boat up shortly to ship to Lake Erie.

Mr . Valdez builds a quality piece of equipment.

We were admiring it at the club yesterday evening. Looks sharp, nicely rigged and fitted out.

And the boat was FAST considering there were none of the planing conditions for which that boat carries a considerable rating penalty. Congrats on getting a cool-looking and nice-performing boat!

#106 JustDroppingBy

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:17 PM

34 boats? Shocking.

#107 CowboyKell

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:33 PM

We had great fun aboard the Hobie. And, isn't that what it's all about having fun? The intensity level at the start may not have been there. But, Having the entire fleet chomping down on you in the last two legs sure brought the intensity level back up. There are still One Design regatta's that everyone can sail in, if that's what you want to do. But, if you're into racing just for the fun this regatta definitely put some variety into the schedule.


The point being is that the Ahmanson used to be on the circuit for the bigger boat one design fleets (F40, J105, J120) that rotated between harbors on a schedule that was reasonable efficient and economical: Ahmanson, Ensenada, Yachting (Ton) Cup, Lipton Cup, North Sails Race Week, Cal RW. The sailing was fun and highly competitive and delivery hassles were minimized. And the turnouts were 2X or 3X what we see today.




And you blame the fact this does not exist any longer on chrome polishers?


Well, the chrome polishers (to be more precise - those that pay the chrome polishers)are now running the YCs and making decisions to discourage the very fleets I was talking about...

Your turn...


As it should be. This is 'Merica by God! Free market economy and Democracy in action. If the bigger boat one design fleets want the old way they can form and run the regattas anytime they want. The solo and double handers were shunned so they have their own organization. They seem pretty happy with it as well. The winningest boat in yacht racing even decided to join in with them from time to time.

Everything changes, nothing stays the same. Even if you and I know that the old way is better there are too many others that disagree.

#108 sham69

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:34 PM

We had great fun aboard the Hobie. And, isn't that what it's all about having fun? The intensity level at the start may not have been there. But, Having the entire fleet chomping down on you in the last two legs sure brought the intensity level back up. There are still One Design regatta's that everyone can sail in, if that's what you want to do. But, if you're into racing just for the fun this regatta definitely put some variety into the schedule.


The point being is that the Ahmanson used to be on the circuit for the bigger boat one design fleets (F40, J105, J120) that rotated between harbors on a schedule that was reasonable efficient and economical: Ahmanson, Ensenada, Yachting (Ton) Cup, Lipton Cup, North Sails Race Week, Cal RW. The sailing was fun and highly competitive and delivery hassles were minimized. And the turnouts were 2X or 3X what we see today.




And you blame the fact this does not exist any longer on chrome polishers?


Well, the chrome polishers (to be more precise - those that pay the chrome polishers)are now running the YCs and making decisions to discourage the very fleets I was talking about...

Your turn...




It would be relatively easy if it were attributed to just chrome polishers.

I think there are many many contributing factors.

More pros on boats is one as this limits younger people sailing big boats that eventually own/campaign them and are involved in the management of the game. Rule changes, advancing technologies, obsolete platforms, poor economies, overall cost vs.fun factor, etc. I would offer that chrome polishers are one of the results of this process, vice the cause. Clubs need to stay afloat and will adapt to a changing landscape/demographic. Clubs will always be involved, and often contain the leadership to make changes to not only benefit their membership (1st priority), but the sailing community as a whole. This was my point originally. Bashing the clubs wil not advance your cause. Engaging them with open minds is a more reliable way to start.

#109 Tom O'Keefe

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:34 PM

Actually, it used to be an event of a series for Shock 35s, 70 raters, Fast 50's and 40's. These things ebb and flow. Some periods random leg races and point to point races gain popularity and some decades windward lewards do. I still like sailing W/L's. But, every once in a while it's fun to change things up a little bit. To be honest, I grew up surfing. So, I've always preffered offshore distance races. But, I got involved in buoy racing to gain experience and improve my boat handling. When all you do is Hot Dogs, the boats get type formed and people get rusty on tactics like inline peels and reach to reach jibes and optimizing trim for fetch angles. If you change up the format once and a while, all of a sudden boats like a little Hobie 33 that does not stand a ghost of a chance around the buoys, can be sailed competitively against some pretty hot boats that were designed to point to the moon and VMG sail to the leward mark like crazy.
And, even when Ahmanson was a W/L event there were people that bitched that it was too consistantly a light air venue. So, you still have Yachting Cup, Cal Race Week, Long Beach Race Week, Big Boat, Nood and Mid Winters to get your big fleet Windward Leeward fix and lots of local club W/L races. Why post derogatory comments just because NHYC is trying something to get more local people involved while the economy is forcing people to watch their pocket books.

#110 DoRag

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:42 PM

We had great fun aboard the Hobie. And, isn't that what it's all about having fun? The intensity level at the start may not have been there. But, Having the entire fleet chomping down on you in the last two legs sure brought the intensity level back up. There are still One Design regatta's that everyone can sail in, if that's what you want to do. But, if you're into racing just for the fun this regatta definitely put some variety into the schedule.


The point being is that the Ahmanson used to be on the circuit for the bigger boat one design fleets (F40, J105, J120) that rotated between harbors on a schedule that was reasonable efficient and economical: Ahmanson, Ensenada, Yachting (Ton) Cup, Lipton Cup, North Sails Race Week, Cal RW. The sailing was fun and highly competitive and delivery hassles were minimized. And the turnouts were 2X or 3X what we see today.




And you blame the fact this does not exist any longer on chrome polishers?


Well, the chrome polishers (to be more precise - those that pay the chrome polishers)are now running the YCs and making decisions to discourage the very fleets I was talking about...

Your turn...


As it should be. This is 'Merica by God! Free market economy and Democracy in action. If the bigger boat one design fleets want the old way they can form and run the regattas anytime they want. The solo and double handers were shunned so they have their own organization. They seem pretty happy with it as well. The winningest boat in yacht racing even decided to join in with them from time to time.

Everything changes, nothing stays the same. Even if you and I know that the old way is better there are too many others that disagree.


Yeah, I know. I just wonder if racing wouldn't be in the current state it is if folks knew just how much fun it was not to long ago and the blazers stayed out of it.

#111 DoRag

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 07:49 PM

We had great fun aboard the Hobie. And, isn't that what it's all about having fun? The intensity level at the start may not have been there. But, Having the entire fleet chomping down on you in the last two legs sure brought the intensity level back up. There are still One Design regatta's that everyone can sail in, if that's what you want to do. But, if you're into racing just for the fun this regatta definitely put some variety into the schedule.


The point being is that the Ahmanson used to be on the circuit for the bigger boat one design fleets (F40, J105, J120) that rotated between harbors on a schedule that was reasonable efficient and economical: Ahmanson, Ensenada, Yachting (Ton) Cup, Lipton Cup, North Sails Race Week, Cal RW. The sailing was fun and highly competitive and delivery hassles were minimized. And the turnouts were 2X or 3X what we see today.




And you blame the fact this does not exist any longer on chrome polishers?


Well, the chrome polishers (to be more precise - those that pay the chrome polishers)are now running the YCs and making decisions to discourage the very fleets I was talking about...

Your turn...




It would be relatively easy if it were attributed to just chrome polishers.

I think there are many many contributing factors.

More pros on boats is one as this limits younger people sailing big boats that eventually own/campaign them and are involved in the management of the game. Rule changes, advancing technologies, obsolete platforms, poor economies, overall cost vs.fun factor, etc. I would offer that chrome polishers are one of the results of this process, vice the cause. Clubs need to stay afloat and will adapt to a changing landscape/demographic. Clubs will always be involved, and often contain the leadership to make changes to not only benefit their membership (1st priority), but the sailing community as a whole. This was my point originally. Bashing the clubs wil not advance your cause. Engaging them with open minds is a more reliable way to start.


They become the cause when they take over clubs and compete for the chairs and manage the new membership programs. Then things morph over into more "social" activities. The big event of the day becomes Opening Day. The heritage and soul of a yacht club is diminished, if not destroyed.

As for advancing my cause, been there, done that. As the poet, Dylan Thomas, said - this is all about "raging against the dying of the light."

#112 sham69

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:00 PM

And you blame the fact this does not exist any longer on chrome polishers?
[/quote]

Well, the chrome polishers (to be more precise - those that pay the chrome polishers)are now running the YCs and making decisions to discourage the very fleets I was talking about...

Your turn...
[/quote]



It would be relatively easy if it were attributed to just chrome polishers.

I think there are many many contributing factors.

More pros on boats is one as this limits younger people sailing big boats that eventually own/campaign them and are involved in the management of the game. Rule changes, advancing technologies, obsolete platforms, poor economies, overall cost vs.fun factor, etc. I would offer that chrome polishers are one of the results of this process, vice the cause. Clubs need to stay afloat and will adapt to a changing landscape/demographic. Clubs will always be involved, and often contain the leadership to make changes to not only benefit their membership (1st priority), but the sailing community as a whole. This was my point originally. Bashing the clubs wil not advance your cause. Engaging them with open minds is a more reliable way to start.
[/quote]

They become the cause when they take over clubs and compete for the chairs and manage the new membership programs. Then things morph over into more "social" activities. The big event of the day becomes Opening Day. The heritage and sole of a yacht club is diminished, if not destroyed.

As for advancing my cause, been there, done that. As the poet, Dylan Thomas, said - this is all about "raging against the dying of the light."
[/quote]

Opening Day is the heritage and soul (vice sole) of a yacht club. No way around that.

As I suspected, you may not completely understand the way some clubs are organized and run.

#113 Kmag

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:09 PM

Raced it on the Hobie 33 and had a lot of fun.... yes it was not the classic regatta but who is to blame for it changing??? The sailors (or lack of) for the Ahmanson Regatta the past few years have led to it changing to the new format.

Ah! Didn't notice you were sailing with my friend Daniel (and Robert too.) Before the racing I told my skipper that Still Crazy and No Rationing were going to be tough to catch.

I think it's cool that as the race progresses the fleet compresses as opposed to normal handicap racing where the fleet slowly gets farther and farther spread out. Consensus on our boat was that it kept the crew sharper, longer. Not as sharp as one-design, but sharper than normal PHRF. As the finish approaches, the adrenaline gets ramped up.

Noticed on Kattack how the fleet was most compressed about 2/3 through the race. This actually sounds about right to me, as the winning boats start to leg out in clear air and the losing boats do what losing boats do. The finish intervals were not that different than an one-design race of equal distance.


Yeah it seemed like the boats finished pretty close... did get nerve racking driving with my head constantly looking over my shoulder as TP-52's came down the course at us

#114 Somebody Else

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:14 PM

Yeah it seemed like the boats finished pretty close... did get nerve racking driving with my head constantly looking over my shoulder as TP-52's came down the course at us

Ha! Us too!

Do you think they could have caught DARE if they hadn't been preoccupied with their little dick-waggling contest out there to weather? I think they lost sight of the forest for the trees.

#115 Kmag

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 08:16 PM

Yeah it seemed like the boats finished pretty close... did get nerve racking driving with my head constantly looking over my shoulder as TP-52's came down the course at us

Ha! Us too!

Do you think they could have caught DARE if they hadn't been preoccupied with their little dick-waggling contest out there to weather? I think they lost sight of the forest for the trees.


Actually I never saw them until the finish as we rate 78 and started pretty far ahead. It is hard to catch Dare who rate 30 sec slower than any boat similar to them

#116 hbsurfer

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 11:59 PM

Newbie here so blast away. I am glad to see some positive comments about the event. It was not just more fun, but we learned a shitload going into mark roundings with those monsters galloping in behind us. Nice having other boats around at the finish and the folks who won had to sail well to do it. The purists are not going to help keel boat sailing grow again in so cal.

#117 PeterHuston

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:04 AM

Love to Dude, but packing the boat up shortly to ship to Lake Erie.

Mr . Valdez builds a quality piece of equipment.


Fronzie talk you into letting him do the delivery yet?

#118 sumpin

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Posted 24 April 2012 - 12:31 AM

tits

R/L has its place for those that may wish to do it.

Purist has nothing to do with it. I get it more correlates to the current state of racing, I mean PH racing, than anything else.

I believe the point is more specific to the Ahmanson and the change in format. I don't particularly like R/L but if I did I can do a Hot Rum. Many like it for the simple reason "it's easy".
Dude likes it cause he sells these old horses and if this cruising/racing comes along it's good for business. I get that too.

Selfishly I like going around the marks where its more tactical, requires boathandling, you actually have to do A START, etc etc.

My R/L need gets filled up doing point to point.

Everyone has their FIX
It's different needs. Maybe we can get a cruising class at Yachting Cup?

#119 sarasailor

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:11 PM

@ DoRag:

two questions...

What infallible Yacht Club do you belong to that runs only perfectly square W/L courses in 15 knots of unshifting wind for only evenly matched one design and tightly banded handicap classes every weekend? i want to join.

What were you doing while every other sailor worth his salt in Newport Harbor was racing all weekend?

#120 some dude

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 05:14 PM

tits

R/L has its place for those that may wish to do it.

Purist has nothing to do with it. I get it more correlates to the current state of racing, I mean PH racing, than anything else.

I believe the point is more specific to the Ahmanson and the change in format. I don't particularly like R/L but if I did I can do a Hot Rum. Many like it for the simple reason "it's easy".
Dude likes it cause he sells these old horses and if this cruising/racing comes along it's good for business. I get that too.

Selfishly I like going around the marks where its more tactical, requires boathandling, you actually have to do A START, etc etc.

My R/L need gets filled up doing point to point.

Everyone has their FIX
It's different needs. Maybe we can get a cruising class at Yachting Cup?



wurd.

small OD scratches the itch just fine. those big ole dinosaurs are for going to Catalina and the occasional Ensenada race

#121 sunseeker

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 07:42 PM

@ DoRag:

two questions...

What infallible Yacht Club do you belong to that runs only perfectly square W/L courses in 15 knots of unshifting wind for only evenly matched one design and tightly banded handicap classes every weekend? i want to join.

What were you doing while every other sailor worth his salt in Newport Harbor was racing all weekend?


did passage, chubby or olinka sail this weekend? who did dave ullman sail with? how about ficker or durgan, they are both from nhyc and both have won america's cups as skipper and tactician.

#122 Vince Valdes

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:30 PM

We had fun with the new Ahmanson format....Attached File  AHMANSON 103.jpg   49.17KB   7 downloads

#123 Vince Valdes

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:33 PM

We had fun with the new Ahmanson format....Attached File  AHMANSON 103.jpg   49.17KB   7 downloads


Sailing the New Carbon Columbia 32

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#124 opusone

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:37 PM

tits

R/L has its place for those that may wish to do it.

Purist has nothing to do with it. I get it more correlates to the current state of racing, I mean PH racing, than anything else.

I believe the point is more specific to the Ahmanson and the change in format. I don't particularly like R/L but if I did I can do a Hot Rum. Many like it for the simple reason "it's easy".
Dude likes it cause he sells these old horses and if this cruising/racing comes along it's good for business. I get that too.

Selfishly I like going around the marks where its more tactical, requires boathandling, you actually have to do A START, etc etc.

My R/L need gets filled up doing point to point.

Everyone has their FIX
It's different needs. Maybe we can get a cruising class at Yachting Cup?


+1

opusone

#125 opusone

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:38 PM

We had fun with the new Ahmanson format....Attached File  AHMANSON 103.jpg   49.17KB   7 downloads


Nice looking boat Vince - great job!

Cheers,

opusone

#126 Somebody Else

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:40 PM

The boat looks awesome, Vince. That chute is HUGE!

We were admiring the boat at the dock, Sunday.

Sails nice! I would not think that those were your conditions this last weekend, yet you still did well.

#127 Vince Valdes

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:44 PM

The boat looks awesome, Vince. That chute is HUGE!

We were admiring the boat at the dock, Sunday.

Sails nice! I would not think that those were your conditions this last weekend, yet you still did well.


Thanks,
We has a great time.....
I like taking down some of the big boats

#128 sumpin

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:46 PM

good looking ride..don't take them down too fast or the PH board will,

ah forget it, you know the game

#129 Vince Valdes

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Posted 25 April 2012 - 10:50 PM

good looking ride..don't take them down too fast or the PH board will,

ah forget it, you know the game


The boat we raced last weekend goes to New York soon. It will come out of the water next week.

The 1st day we jibed right in front of Rio to finish the race. It was very cool to finish between two TP52's