1778 replies to this topic

[jhiller]

I had some fun with that design and a hell of a lot of fun at the yard working out the deck details. One visit we had a 7.4 earthquake. That was not fun.

Scorpio 72 = me in South Pacific . Great looking with genuine character. Makes me want to pack my seabag, fill the watertanks with rum and go

[Bob Perry]

Jim:
I got a call late last night from Taiwan. " Who the hell is it at this hour?" It was my old buddy Wayne Chen from the CT yard.
"How jiola, how jiola" long time, long time.
We are the same age and I have not seen Wayne in at least 20 years. I had his nephew staying at the shack last week so word travelled fast in Taiwan. The two families don't communicate much these days. And that's a real shame. I once went to the grandmother's 80th birthday party.
Wayne has ben building some very big boats and claims to have the biggest 5 axis cutting machine in Asia.

I have some memories wrapped up there. They built 30 CT 65's. Jean-Michel Tissier bought 25 of them and put them into charter in Europe. He is still cruising his own after a major Turkish refit.
He stayed at the shack a couple of months ago and left me a pile of photos of CT 65 fleets. I'm proud of that design. Sometimes a pirate ship is just what you need.

Attached Files

•  Ct65.jpeg   62.96K   97 downloads

[boomer]

If you think about it, boats are huge things. I remember a pic of me next to my brother's F2 Lightning fun board. The board is vertical, and I'm standing next to it, like a classic surf shot. Windsurfers are considered tiny in the sailing world. The Lightning is about an 11' board.

Paul

The original f2 Lightning were top of the line course racing board back around '88...the top three back then were the Mistral Equipe, Fanatic Mega Cat and the f2 Lightning....epoxy/carbon boards course boards like that are capable of 30+ kts.

I still have a couple f2 carbon,honeycomb,diven cell slalom and speed boards which weigh from 15-17 lbs....one of them the f2 270 Sputnik World Cup easily does 36+kts in 25 kts. of wind....in perfectly flat speed 30kt+ conditions along side a bar such at Lyle where the Klickitat dumps in to the Columbia, or Kline Spit at Dungeness the board is capable of 40-45+ kts....the same board in non-smooth water open ocean has gone 43+ kts.

[Jose Carumba]

Bridges? Going under The Narrows suspension bridges, I'm always convinced we're going to touch. And it's one of the bigger ones around.....

Paul

That reminds me of one of my first boat related memories from my youth. I was about 4 or so and my dad had brought me along on the sea trial for the Nereus, a Garden designed motor sailer. We were approaching the Narrows bridge and my cousin and I were convinced we would not make it under. "Dad, Daaaad, DAD! Oh..., whew"

[Bob Perry]

Jose/Depster:
I've been under the Hadlock Canal bridge in a Valiant 40. Now that is terrifying!
There was a legend that years ago a Cal 39 got caught half way under the bridge.
That's really comforting in a V-40 as you appproach the bridge with a 3.5 knot current pushing you.
Naviguesser swore we would make it. He was right. I almost soiled myself.

[boomer]

Manson built that bridge Bob....the side road just north of the bridge goes down to the old ferry crossing,remnants of the loading docks are still there.

The Naviguesser probably reviewed the tide charts a couple of times,before coming to that conclusion.... Bridge is 57' at MHW. MHW at Pt. Townsend is 8.5' .... If you went through at a + 8.5' tide, the same as MHW, the bridge clearance is 57' off of the water....Now if the tide were at +10.5' then the clearance of the bridge at that water level is 55'....the Valiant 40 is about 55'...I'd almost be schitting bricks,too.

Still a close call in my book....if there was a high pressure system then the tide may be a six inches to a foot less...low pressure six inches to a foot more....frontal system with a strong westerly in the straits,maybe a wee bit more....that's why they're called predicted tides....fortunately Admiralty inlet are closer to predicted heights then Center Sound or South Sound ....in Tacoma,tides can be two to two and half feet higher then predicted,with a strong northerly a wee bit more....Olympia even more....

[Bob Perry]

Depster:
Valiant "I" is 50' so I'd guess 56' with the crap on the masthead,no antenae.
Truth is and I'm not embarrassed to say this now, that as we went under the bridge I screamed and threw myself down into the cockpit well. Truth.
But,,,I did not soil myself. Navigator was my engineer Craig Goring. Craig believed in numbers. He nailed that one. We were on our way to the Swiftsure Race. I'm sure the word would have spread quickly had we hit.

[Ishmael]

We went under that bridge delivering PShift from Shilshole up to Sidney when we first bought her. I was frantically going through the owner's manual looking for the air draft and figuring out the tides. I think we ended up with a foot of clearance over the VHF antenna. Schitting brix indeed.

[jhiller]

Jim:
I got a call late last night from Taiwan. " Who the hell is it at this hour?" It was my old buddy Wayne Chen from the CT yard.
"How jiola, how jiola" long time, long time.
We are the same age and I have not seen Wayne in at least 20 years. I had his nephew staying at the shack last week so word travelled fast in Taiwan. The two families don't communicate much these days. And that's a real shame. I once went to the grandmother's 80th birthday party.
Wayne has ben building some very big boats and claims to have the biggest 5 axis cutting machine in Asia.

I have some memories wrapped up there. They built 30 CT 65's. Jean-Michel Tissier bought 25 of them and put them into charter in Europe. He is still cruising his own after a major Turkish refit.
He stayed at the shack a couple of months ago and left me a pile of photos of CT 65 fleets. I'm proud of that design. Sometimes a pirate ship is just what you need.

Just image the row away factor as you glance back and know that everyone who sees it wants it...... You may not like this Bob but I see the Freeport 41 in that boat's lineage. And I always like it despite it's sailing deficits

[boomer]

Ha,Bob...that's a good one...

I believe in numbers,too....but sometimes,you never know for certain.

Get young engineers out in the field,waiting for a lower pony bent to expose,tide book in hand,low pressure with wind,pony bent still a couple feet underwater at low tide....the young engineer saying,"but the book says!".....reply,"see where it says predicted." they'd look and reply,"yes"....reply,"let me explain a little something about high and low pressure,wind and tides....."

[svgreatwhite]

That bridge always makes me nervous. My air draft is about 53 ft, so I clear by a few feet.

 DSCN1752.JPG   98.72K   12 downloads  DSCN1751.JPG   107.29K   12 downloads

[Soñadora]

Jim:
I got a call late last night from Taiwan. " Who the hell is it at this hour?" It was my old buddy Wayne Chen from the CT yard.
"How jiola, how jiola" long time, long time.
We are the same age and I have not seen Wayne in at least 20 years. I had his nephew staying at the shack last week so word travelled fast in Taiwan. The two families don't communicate much these days. And that's a real shame. I once went to the grandmother's 80th birthday party.
Wayne has ben building some very big boats and claims to have the biggest 5 axis cutting machine in Asia.

I have some memories wrapped up there. They built 30 CT 65's. Jean-Michel Tissier bought 25 of them and put them into charter in Europe. He is still cruising his own after a major Turkish refit.
He stayed at the shack a couple of months ago and left me a pile of photos of CT 65 fleets. I'm proud of that design. Sometimes a pirate ship is just what you need.

That's awesome Bob. Those CT65s are absolutely breathtaking. I'd go so far as to say they were ahead of their time, despite the whole 'pirate ship' looking bit. No disrespect to Garden, but none of those Formosa's even come close.

anyone lusting after these like I do can get an eyefull here.

[Ishmael]

That's cool, they wrote the name backwards on the starboard side.

[Soñadora]

That's cool, they wrote the name backwards on the starboard side.

Must be the same guys who did the Mauri Pro ads

[Bob Perry]

Rick:
Thanks. I agree with you. I always thought the Formosas were less than handsome boats. But knowing a bit about that coimpany I always wondered about the real involvement of Bill Garden. I've seen drawings that appear to be his for Formosa but they look like he was not trying very hard. Can't quite understand it. When I did the CT 54 I was trying hard to do a Garden boat better than Bill Garden. I was probably 26 years old when I began that design. Poor as a church mouse but enthusiastic for the work. When I went to work at Carter's office I was finishing the design. Yves-Marie and Chuck just laughed at the design. I remember Chuckles saying, "Plank lines? You really want plank lines?" Being from Seattle with it's heritage of great looking fishing boats with plank lines showing I thought, "Hell yes I want plank lines." They sold 100 CT 54's. I just got an email from a Seattle couple cruising Mexico in theirs. They love it.

Attached Files

•  ct_54_drawing.jpg   125.99K   140 downloads

[SereneSpeed]

For those of you - like me - who are waiting patiently for an update, here is something to bide your time: http://bwsailing.com...t-61/#more-2668


















(bump)

[blackjenner]

Jose/Depster:
I've been under the Hadlock Canal bridge in a Valiant 40. Now that is terrifying!
There was a legend that years ago a Cal 39 got caught half way under the bridge.
That's really comforting in a V-40 as you appproach the bridge with a 3.5 knot current pushing you.
Naviguesser swore we would make it. He was right. I almost soiled myself.

I have considered that route twice and turned it down twice. It just doesn't seem like I have enough room to fuck up.

[jhiller]

Rick:
Thanks. I agree with you. I always thought the Formosas were less than handsome boats. But knowing a bit about that coimpany I always wondered about the real involvement of Bill Garden. I've seen drawings that appear to be his for Formosa but they look like he was not trying very hard. Can't quite understand it. When I did the CT 54 I was trying hard to do a Garden boat better than Bill Garden. I was probably 26 years old when I began that design. Poor as a church mouse but enthusiastic for the work. When I went to work at Carter's office I was finishing the design. Yves-Marie and Chuck just laughed at the design. I remember Chuckles saying, "Plank lines? You really want plank lines?" Being from Seattle with it's heritage of great looking fishing boats with plank lines showing I thought, "Hell yes I want plank lines." They sold 100 CT 54's. I just got an email from a Seattle couple cruising Mexico in theirs. They love it.

I suspect that they they were early in your career. Formosa's were very attractive for their time but have not become timeless like some of your other work. That 72 Scorpio will make blood run faster in 100 years. There's some serendipity to it for sure....

[Bob Perry]

Thanks Jim. I look at ittoday and it still looks pretty darn good to me. The CT 54 on the other hand looks like a nice young kid with some promise of talent drew it.
Not sure what I would change on the Scorpio 72. Not sure what I wouldn't change on the CT54. The sheerline is not bad.

[blackjenner]

I remember Chuckles saying, "Plank lines? You really want plank lines?" Being from Seattle with it's heritage of great looking fishing boats with plank lines showing I thought, "Hell yes I want plank lines." They sold 100 CT 54's. I just got an email from a Seattle couple cruising Mexico in theirs. They love it.

I'm very fond of my plank lines.

[Amati]

I like my plank lines, however subtle. Very very subtle.

[Soñadora]

I remember Chuckles saying, "Plank lines? You really want plank lines?" Being from Seattle with it's heritage of great looking fishing boats with plank lines showing I thought, "Hell yes I want plank lines." They sold 100 CT 54's. I just got an email from a Seattle couple cruising Mexico in theirs. They love it.

I'm very fond of my plank lines.

sing it cousin

[Jose Carumba]

We built a lot of 43 and 50 ft charter boats with plank lines molded in, then ground them off the 50 ft mold when we started building yachts from it. That was a tedious job.

I love the plank lines on Amati, at lest the ones on the companionway stair treads.

[sculpin]

So my mother in law, after having a stroke, can only walk with a cane and is very unhappy navigating stairs. It was observed that I should build a removable ramp to our front door so that she can easily get in/out... to which suggestion I replied "that's a great idea, I need to build a pasarelle for the front door!". Which baffled everyone, none had encountered that word before.

Hey, so where the hell is ND and some updates on the build? They had a mold made what, years ago??? Seems like it!

[Bob Perry]

Sculper:
ND is laying low.
The yard is preparing the mold, painting it black and polishing it. They have erected a scafolding system that allows them to work inside the mold. All is progresssing.
I'll see if I can find the latest pics of work on the mold. I didn't post them because they were not particularily interesting. Mostly scafolding.

[SereneSpeed]

I would find internal scaffolding interesting... I canot imagine that my mental picture matches what's actually going on at PSC:

[wick]

Where was that Jose and what boats were you involved with?

We built a lot of 43 and 50 ft charter boats with plank lines molded in, then ground them off the 50 ft mold when we started building yachts from it. That was a tedious job.

I love the plank lines on Amati, at lest the ones on the companionway stair treads.

[wick]

2nd that motion

I would find internal scaffolding interesting... I canot imagine that my mental picture matches what's actually going on at PSC:

[Jose Carumba]

Where was that Jose and what boats were you involved with?

We built a lot of 43 and 50 ft charter boats with plank lines molded in, then ground them off the 50 ft mold when we started building yachts from it. That was a tedious job.

I love the plank lines on Amati, at lest the ones on the companionway stair treads.

Delta Marine in Seattle. We built at least 94 50 footers and about the same number of 43s. Over the years we built 3-4 yachts from the 50 ft mold the last two of which had the plank lines removed. The first boats were built in the '70s. I was involved from 1986 until we stopped building them in the <edit> late '80s - early '90s. Delta built its reputation on tough fishing vessels and charter boats for Alaska. We still build the occasional salmon seiner in addition to the big yachts.

Delta 50 Charter Boat
 Delta 50-2.jpg   2.44K   31 downloads

Delta 43 Charter Boat
 Delta 43.jpg   76.05K   33 downloads

Delta 58 Seiner]
 Sequel Launch.jpg   188.52K   28 downloads

[Gatekeeper]

I work at Delta too!!

(or so I'm told)

[viktor]

Where was that Jose and what boats were you involved with?

We built a lot of 43 and 50 ft charter boats with plank lines molded in, then ground them off the 50 ft mold when we started building yachts from it. That was a tedious job.

I love the plank lines on Amati, at lest the ones on the companionway stair treads.

Delta Marine in Seattle. We built at least 94 50 footers and about the same number of 43s. Over the years we built 3-4 yachts from the 50 ft mold the last two of which had the plank lines removed. The first boats were built in the '70s. I was involved from 1986 until we stopped building them in the <edit> late '80s - early '90s. Delta built its reputation on tough fishing vessels and charter boats for Alaska. We still build the occasional salmon seiner in addition to the big yachts.

Delta 50 Charter Boat
 Delta 50-2.jpg   2.44K   31 downloads

Delta 43 Charter Boat
 Delta 43.jpg   76.05K   33 downloads

Delta 58 Seiner]
 Sequel Launch.jpg   188.52K   28 downloads

Jose,What is the ton rating on the travel lift? All they had when I worked there was that 3 leg crane and a drydock.
If I remember correctly there were a few times they really maxed out that old crane.

[Jose Carumba]

350 tons. It used to be among the biggest but there are now units around 1,00 tons.

[SecondWindNC]

Just a heads up on some additional publicity - the Catari project got a mention in an article on PSC in All At Sea Southeast.

I guess I should probably disclose I wrote it.

[Bob Perry]

There is also a review of the design I wrote in SAILING this month. A totally biased review I might add.

[Joli]

Bob, I look forward to reading it and hope the article brings you another dozen ND type commisions.

[kdh]

Bob, I enjoyed your review. There are so many novel and creative elements to the design. A true dream boat.

I was also surprised at the OBE, I would have guessed higher. But ND has been singing the tune all along that a custom build isn't more expensive than production.

[pogen]

There is also a review of the design I wrote in SAILING this month. A totally biased review I might add.

Got the mag in the mail yesterday. While I haven't followed this thread/project too closely, I recognized it. She will be a beaut when completed.

As to the review? "Fair and balanced."

Oh, will the boat relocate to the West coast after construction, and if so, how so? Kind of big for a trailer.

[Bob Perry]

Pogs:
No, initially this will be an East Coast boat.

"Fair and balanced"? I like that. I have Bill on right now. He's downstairs so I can't hear him but I'm sure he is fair and balanced.
Some of the worst critics of my reviews have been my own clients. "How could you say that?"

Fact is that this has been a wonderful project involving a host of wonderful people, including me.
Now will someone go tell my wife who is still a bit pissed that I got drunk last night and said things about her mother that I am wonderful.
I'm going to get my revenge by making her wait for her dinner.
I'm in a mood.
Where's Paps?

[Paps]

No help here big fella. You gets drunk you pay the consequences lol.

[Bob Perry]

Here are some pics from PSC showing the hull core completed. Inner skin lamination should be done by the end of the week. Work proceeds on schedule.

Attached Files

•  catari hull core1.jpg   61.64K   124 downloads
•  catari hull core 2.jpg   87.67K   150 downloads
•  catari hull core 3.jpg   183.75K   120 downloads

[SereneSpeed]

Thanks Bob!

[Jose Carumba]

Not infused? Interesting.

[Bob Perry]

Yes, Jose, not infused. By choice.
This is PSC's first cored hull and I want to keep the build process as straight forward as possible. There have been infusion disasters and I don't want one.
You may be blinded by years of building large grp boats and staying on the leading edge of grp technology. PSC is not Delta.

[SereneSpeed]

I understand that solid GRP hulls are heavier than cored hulls (panels) of equal stiffness, but by how much? Is their a rule of thumb? For a large boat like ND's how much weight or what percentage of the overall weight can be saved?

[Bob Perry]

Serene:
I don't have a rule of thumb for that but now that you ask I'd say about 1.5 times the weight for the same stiffness.. The idea is to get the very strongest/stiffest hull for the least amount of weight. Solid laminates just do not make sense and all the old arguments about "point loading" in reality don't show up. I would cringe if a client asked me today to do a solid laminate boat. Solid lams are fine and they were fine and they will be fine but time marches on and we learn better ways to do things.

[Jose Carumba]

Yes, Jose, not infused. By choice.
This is PSC's first cored hull and I want to keep the build process as straight forward as possible. There have been infusion disasters and I don't want one.
You may be blinded by years of building large grp boats and staying on the leading edge of grp technology. PSC is not Delta.

You're probably right Bob. I thought most builders used infusion these days, if not for improved material properties than for meeting air quality regulations. There is definitely a fairly steep learning curve to the technology. Now where did I put my white cane? Gotta watch out for the farmer's wife...

[jhiller]

Jose....
Infusion technology is terrific as you know. Being the first boat you've ever infused isn't. . My new Tartan has an infused hull . I sweated every moment of the process and they've done hundreds. In the end it worked out fine but we still had plenty of spots that needed hand wet out on the outer skin. We upped the thickness of the foam core and even that changed the flow patterns. It's the best way to build a hull when done by a crew who have done it before and have tight control over every aspect of the environment. I've seen some spectacular disasters using infusion.....

Boat is coming along nicely Bob...

[Innocent Bystander]

Looking good Bob.

[Soñadora]

For the armchair builders here (me), could you guys give some insight as to what 'infusion' is? Sure, I could Google it. You guys are better than Google though.

[Tom Ray]

What do you guys mean by "infusion" anyway? I see plastic taped down and tubes but don't really know what I'm looking at other than some kind of vacuum bagging arrangement.

Edit to add: I see I was typing while Sons was similarly confused.

[Presuming Ed]

Lay up methods, AIUI:
Trad hand lay up: lay out glass/(carbon/kevlar or whatever). Pour over resin. Distribute resin into glass.
"Kiwipreg" Apply resin to glass on table. Fit resin-ed up pieces to mould.
Infusion: lay up dry glass. Cover with a vacuum bag which has numerous pipes fited. Use vacuum to pull resin into piece through tubes.
Pre-preg. Glass Carbon arrived pre-impregnated with resin; doesn't go off because it's kept cold. Lay up, vacuum and bake.

Infusion:

[Soñadora]

so that pic Bob showed isn't infusion?

[Presuming Ed]

Looks like straight vacuum bagging. Can be used with hand layup and kiwi preg to ensure consolidation / minimise voids. Is always used (?) with pre-preg.

Vacuum bagging (and autoclave) with wood veneer: http://www.britishpa...y-racing-dinghy.

[Tucky]

I think infusion is a birds and bees kind of situation.

The boat is the woman- no surprise there, they are called she for a reason.

The infuser is the man, or da man if you prefer. A big barrel chested thing that sends his mighty juice and impregnates the female hull- that is why they call it "pre-preg" if the juice is already there and just heat is needed

The difference is that in human sex the male is stiff before copulation and flaccid after. In boat sex the male is flaccid during sex (think of all those little tubes) and empty after (no surprise there), but the female is stiff after sex (hopefully) and remains that way forever. And peel ply and vacuum bags are condoms of a sort.

Next question?

[sculpin]

vacuum bagging is a pretty easy way to ensure you compress the lamination and get excess resin out, it is simple enough to do it in your basement (as shown in the picture, that's my anchor locker lid getting repaired - previous owner had installed a hawse pipe and I patched over the resulting hole). By vacuum bagging it I get air bubbles out, less resin, and a nice smooth surface.


Infusion is a lot more technical. As I understand it (which may be faulty), you lay everything up dry, pull vacuum on it similar to vacuum bagging, but then you inject resin using a matrix of tubing you've put in to strategically put resin where you want it.
If done right the benefits are the best strength / weight ratio, and because the chemicals are all contained within the bag it is a much cleaner process. But if it is done wrong you are screwed, toss it and start over...

Attached Files

•  vacuum bagging.jpg   91.24K   22 downloads

[Anomaly2]

Tucky, uhh, how shall I put this?..... thanks (?) for sharing that with us.

I'm a little worried about you---if you think about it, winter hasn't really even started yet in Maine and you're already talking/thinking like this? You gotta get out more man.

I think infusion is a birds and bees kind of situation.

The boat is the woman- no surprise there, they are called she for a reason.

The infuser is the man, or da man if you prefer. A big barrel chested thing that sends his mighty juice and impregnates the female hull- that is why they call it "pre-preg" if the juice is already there and just heat is needed

The difference is that in human sex the male is stiff before copulation and flaccid after. In boat sex the male is flaccid during sex (think of all those little tubes) and empty after (no surprise there), but the female is stiff after sex (hopefully) and remains that way forever. And peel ply and vacuum bags are condoms of a sort.

Next question?

[Soñadora]

Tucky, uhh, how shall I put this?..... thanks (?) for sharing that with us.

I'm a little worried about you---if you think about it, winter hasn't really even started yet in Maine and you're already talking/thinking like this? You gotta get out more man.

I think infusion is a birds and bees kind of situation.

The boat is the woman- no surprise there, they are called she for a reason.

The infuser is the man, or da man if you prefer. A big barrel chested thing that sends his mighty juice and impregnates the female hull- that is why they call it "pre-preg" if the juice is already there and just heat is needed

The difference is that in human sex the male is stiff before copulation and flaccid after. In boat sex the male is flaccid during sex (think of all those little tubes) and empty after (no surprise there), but the female is stiff after sex (hopefully) and remains that way forever. And peel ply and vacuum bags are condoms of a sort.

Next question?

yeah...just...

um, yeah

[Joli]

Not in France, boats are masculine there.

I think infusion is a birds and bees kind of situation.

The boat is the woman- no surprise there, they are called she for a reason.

The infuser is the man, or da man if you prefer. A big barrel chested thing that sends his mighty juice and impregnates the female hull- that is why they call it "pre-preg" if the juice is already there and just heat is needed

The difference is that in human sex the male is stiff before copulation and flaccid after. In boat sex the male is flaccid during sex (think of all those little tubes) and empty after (no surprise there), but the female is stiff after sex (hopefully) and remains that way forever. And peel ply and vacuum bags are condoms of a sort.

Next question?

[Jose Carumba]

Resin Infusion can be daunting and problems can occur. We started out small, doing test panels of 10-12 sq ft., then slowly progressing to more and more critical parts. We now regularly infuse hulls up to 165 ft in length. I wish I could post pictures but some of the methods we developed are proprietary.

Molds need to be as non porous as possible and joints sealed to prevent vacuum leakage. Any tiny little pinhole leak in the bag or where the bag attaches to the mold or at feeder lines etc needs to be fixed so that air is not entrained in the flow. We pull vacuum and then check for leaks with listening device tuned to high frequencies. The catalyst and resin mix is critical to prevent the resin from gelling prematurely and stopping the whole process before full wet-out. Feeder lines need to be placed to provide the proper amount of resin per sq ft. There's more. Despite the complexity of the operation the results are worthwhile. Some benefits are better material properties due to better wet-out and compaction of the laminate, being able to lay the glass in the mold dry (clean process), much less styrene emissions which meets tougher air quality standards.

[Anomaly2]

Not in France, boats are masculine there.

Joli,

Please (I beg you) try to think before you hit the send button. NOW, Tucky is going to treat all of us to his boatbuilding-as-sex fantasy but this time from a gay perspective.

[kimbottles]

Lay up methods, AIUI:
Trad hand lay up: lay out glass/(carbon/kevlar or whatever). Pour over resin. Distribute resin into glass.
"Kiwipreg" Apply resin to glass on table. Fit resin-ed up pieces to mould.
Infusion: lay up dry glass. Cover with a vacuum bag which has numerous pipes fited. Use vacuum to pull resin into piece through tubes.
Pre-preg. Glass Carbon arrived pre-impregnated with resin; doesn't go off because it's kept cold. Lay up, vacuum and bake.

Infusion:

I got to watch as Brandon, Carter and Tim infused the foam core composite panels that became the Sliver bulkheads and structural interior pieces. It was fascinating to watch them set it all up and then to watch the resin slowly start to find its way through the maze of passageways cut into the foam.

Attached Files

•  IMG_5184.JPG   98.04K   33 downloads

[Tucky]

Not in France, boats are masculine there.

Joli,

Please (I beg you) try to think before you hit the send button. NOW, Tucky is going to treat all of us to his boatbuilding-as-sex fantasy but this time from a gay perspective.

Say no more, say no more,nudge nudge, wink wink.

Clearly I transgressed the unwritten law.

[Anomaly2]

Say no more, say no more,nudge nudge, wink wink.

Clearly I transgressed the unwritten law.

Tucky, no worries- who am I to judge how a guy makes it through a long Maine winter?

(but I don't need ALL the details...) :-)

[Tucky]

Zumba,

Just sayin'

[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

Pre-preg. Glass Carbon arrived pre-impregnated with resin; doesn't go off because it's kept cold. Lay up, vacuum and bake.

Thanks for the clarification on this.
I was watching a video of a guitar shop using what they were calling "composite" in their building process. Had to be kept cold until use. Then they used the vacuum/bake process.
I don't keep up with this stuff and was curious as to what it was that they were actually using. Seems to fit.

[Bob Perry]

I'll just plunk away on my J200 and not worry about "composite".

[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

It was a Parker guitar. Sort of a different animal than the J200.

[olaf hart]

Zumba,

Just sayin'

A lot of guys have been thinking of taking up Zumba here lately.

[rattus32]

Zumba,

Just sayin'

A lot of guys have been thinking of taking up Zumba here lately.

Yeah, but in Tucky's neighborhood, it's a somewhat more... uh, delicate... "proposition" ;-) :

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/17/johns_on_zumba_prostitution_ring/

<edit: bad link>

[olaf hart]

Zumba,

Just sayin'

A lot of guys have been thinking of taking up Zumba here lately.

Yeah, but in Tucky's neighborhood, it's a somewhat more... uh, delicate... "proposition" ;-) :

http://www.salon.com/2012/10/17/johns_on_zumba_prostitution_ring/

<edit: bad link>

Don't worry, it was front page news in Oz too.
My wife goes to the local class, she tells me it gets kinda steamy sometimes.

[Paps]

Zumba, zumba I may have to check that out! At the moment the closest I get to exercise is a massage, props G Vidal.

[MisterMoon]

Bump.

Love to see where ND's boat is these days.

[ronbo]

Ditto.

Ronbo

[Bob Perry]

ND's boat is coming along nicely. The interior is pretty much all mocked up now. Maybe I'll post some pics later today.

[viktor]

I would love to see some!

[Bob Perry]

Here you go:

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•  mockup 4.jpg   77.8K   176 downloads
•  mockup 1.jpg   81.13K   205 downloads
•  mockup 2.jpg   89.83K   195 downloads
•  mockup 3.jpg   58.49K   148 downloads

[BGD]

Bob - Does any of that mockup get used in the final version (either for cabinetry or as a GRP mold, or other...). Looks great but also a lot of work to recreate again in final form.

Thanks for sharing those pics! Fun to see this thread alive again.

Cheers!

[Bob Perry]

BGD:
Not as far as I know. This is all just to check that what I drew will actually work. I know it will but there are always small refinements you can do with a mock up and it can give the client a feel for the design that he may not be able to get from design drawings. We actually did make one small change so far due to mock up work. I done plenty of boats where areas were mocked up but this is the first full boat mock up for me. Pacific Seacraft have been very good to work with. I hope to do more custom boats with them.

[viktor]

I think mock ups are great .I have done a few small ones in the past,galley,head ect, but a full boat,very cool. That will really help ND get a real feel of what he's got. I noticed round core less areas in the hull sides. Port lights? Been a long time that I last saw the drawings.
PSC is doing a hell of a nice job.

[Jose Carumba]

Even if you have the most accurate cad drawings, cam generated molds and beautiful 3D renderings there is nothing like a full size mock-up to put everything in perspective. Everyone from the designer to the production personnel to the client benefits. This works for production prototypes to custom one-offs.

Nice galley Bob. Is there a fold up section of countertop so the cook can lock himself in and beat off the marauding hords of apple pie stealers?

[ronbo]

Nice! Aiming for an October showing at the Annapolis Show, Bob?

Ronbo

[Bob Perry]

Thanks.
No. Paul is happy to share the galley.
No.

[Tucky]

I could use some plywood bits . . . . . . . . . . just sayin'

[Albatros]

not that long time ago, when discussing what next years might bring on the yachting side of life, a good friend remarked to me that I sound more like a builder than a sailor and that the two are usually not compatible ... strikes me that if I'm a builder, compared to ND and his Cathari project i'm a bloody fucking silly stupid amateur bigtime

for fuck's sake, get that thing on the water and go sailing

hat, coat, door....

[Bob Perry]

Today the deck is out of the mold on CATARI. It's still upside down but it's out.
I just had a nice talk with Steve Brodie and he is very happy with where we are now.
We may want to revisit the aft head and move the W&D to the workshop area adjacent to the engine. This would allow us to expqand the area of the aft head while retaining a good sized shower.
We also discussed going back to the Lugger engine as Perkins has discontinued the model we chose. There are two engines available, in the world, but we are not comfortable with going with a discvontinued model. The Lugger is a John Deere block and should be a good choice. We had originally fit the Lugger into the boat.

Why am I telling you this?
I have no idea. But it seems some people are interested in following the build of this great boat.

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•  deck pull 3.jpg   56.49K   99 downloads
•  deck pull 4.jpg   99.95K   118 downloads
•  deck pull 2.jpg   94.19K   93 downloads

[Slick470]

Yes Bob, please continue telling us what is going on. This and the Sliver thread are some of the best on SA.

[Bob Perry]

Happy to Slick.

I need to go visit the yard soon. I need to check to see if I can Zumba in the cc. I want to ponce around the interior mockup making abstruse comments that no one can decipher while waving my arms a lot. But, knowing me I'll probably just sit there and stare and silently reflect on just how smart I am. I'm not really a poncer anyway but I can do a good smug look.

I'll drag WHL with me so he can go over his areas of concern for the electrical, instrumentation and deck layout details.

[Jose Carumba]

Happy to Slick.

I need to go visit the yard soon. I need to check to see if I can Zumba in the cc. I want to ponce around the interior mockup making abstruse comments that no one can decipher while waving my arms a lot. But, knowing me I'll probably just sit there and stare and silently reflect on just how smart I am. I'm not really a poncer anyway but I can do a good smug look.

I'll drag WHL with me so he can go over his areas of concern for the electrical, instrumentation and deck layout details.

Make sure you wear tassled loafers and a sweater around your neck.

[kimbottles]

I had better go whip the crew at the School, these guys are catch up to us fast!!

[savoir]

Who cares about the smug look, we want the zumba vid.

[Bob Perry]

Sav:

Ok, I'll edit the part where they carry me to the ambulance.
I'm having a good day when I can get both knees to work at the same time.

Joe:
I don't own any tassled loafers,,,,,anymore. It's Romeos now. Besides tassled loafers look funny with flannel lined jeans.

[Hike, Bitches!]

great to see an update..thanks bob & ND! these guys are moving right along.

So...I've done a boat related mockup once..it was made with 1 x 2's and duct tape..I wanted to make sure the holding thank I was planning to build would fit in the hole in the v-berth. Since I live in the sticks, it involved another sailing buddy & lots of beer...but, the completed tank fit! That is about all the mock-up I've done.

ND, this should be an excellent example of why you have professionals that you do building your boat.

Attached Files

•  P1020595 (Large).JPG   129.37K   8 downloads

[austin1972]

I'd say that's a great job!

I woulda used more duct tape though.

[SecondWindNC]

Looks like it's time for me to pay a visit over at PSC. Can't wait to see the deck and check out the interior mockup!

[Tucky]

Uhhhh, Bob- Zumba might be safe in NC but be careful mentioning where you took lessons if you get up this way.

The trial currently hinges on the meaning of the word "pimp" and whether or not you have to make any money in order to be classified as one. It appears the alleged pimp received no pecuniary benefits though may have enjoyed the charms of the young lass a time or two. If you weren't paid for your work Bob, but went sailing on the boat after it was built, would you still be a naval architect ?

Just google "Kennebunk Zumba" if you are not up to speed. An appalling waste of government resources if you ask me. One of the charges was violating the privacy of the johns because they were being taped. After the defense attorney pointed out that someone robbing a bank does not have an expectation of privacy from the security cameras. the judge and appeals court agreed and threw all those charges out.

But I digress. Just watch where you dance.

[Bob Perry]

ND's deck is now right side up and the crew at PSC have been trying it out. Steve is excited about how perfect it works. Like he thought maybe I did not know how to design a deck? I'm a whizz at this stuff.

Attached Files

•  deck 5.jpg   67.39K   133 downloads
•  deck 1.jpg   81.74K   160 downloads
•  deck 2.jpg   89.44K   148 downloads
•  deck 3.jpg   69.44K   144 downloads
•  deck 4.jpg   80.28K   114 downloads

[Ishmael]

Tell those guys to take their shoes off!

[kdh]

Bob, I kissed your ass on the other thread and now I'm doing it some more, and I think I've said this before, but I love the "hey, it's plastic; we can do anything we want, let's make it practical and beautiful!" approach taken.

Fucking well done. Those bodies just fit everywhere. Look at the way there's a surface waiting for the elbows of the guy in the brown coat in the lounging cockpit.

I'm sure none of this was an accident.

[Joli]

Looks comfi, won't be long before it's bobbing on the water and everyone has a coldie while enjoying the sail.

[Bob Perry]

Keith:
I have to admit the relationship of the guy's elbows to the seatback height was a pure accident. I'd love to lie and say it wasn't but I was working with several other ergonomic and practical issues on the CC seatback and I didn't give elbow height a second thought. I noticed the exact same thing. "Ooh, that's cool. Looks just like I planned it that way." It's a bit like golf. Sometimes you need to be good and lucky.

But don't let me stop you from kissing my ass.