1778 replies to this topic

[Jose Carumba]

Damn. And here I thought you planned it that way.

[Bob Perry]

No Jose. It was a struggle between getting adequate seat back height and not raising the profile too much. I didn't want the CC coaming to be prominant.

[savoir]

What are the two wooden frames for ? Locker lids maybe ?

[Amati]

Happy to Slick.

I need to go visit the yard soon. I need to check to see if I can Zumba in the cc. I want to ponce around the interior mockup making abstruse comments that no one can decipher while waving my arms a lot. But, knowing me I'll probably just sit there and stare and silently reflect on just how smart I am. I'm not really a poncer anyway but I can do a good smug look.

I'll drag WHL with me so he can go over his areas of concern for the electrical, instrumentation and deck layout details.

Your style as evolved. I liked the hands on hips, looking down something for a looooong time. Even got others doing it with you, even though I must admit I was faking it, except once. I think.

I'll find a pic.

So Kim, what has Bob's approach been with the boat formerly known as Splinter? Pipe? Beard stroking?

Somehow this is like actor's studio!

So who would play you, Bob, in the movie?

[Bob Perry]

Paul:
I'm going to be played by Christopher Walkin, maybe Clint Eastwood.

[Ishmael]

I think RuPaul would be perfect.

We'll have to work on the makeup a bit.

[rattus32]

Paul:
I'm going to be played by Christopher Walkin, maybe Clint Eastwood.

I'd go with Cristopher Walken (aka "Yes, THE Bruce Dickinson") - "I got a fever - and the only prescription is more cowbell!"

http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/458l

[Bob Perry]

Rat:
I think of Chistopher Walken delivering that monologe about the watch up the prisoner's ass in PULP FICTION.
I think that is one of the most amazing pieces of acting I have ever seen.

Now picture him tallking about yacht design.

[Bob Perry]

CATARI leaves the mold!
An exciting day for all involved.
WHL and I will be back at the yard in two weeks. I look forward to seeing the boat in person.

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[Salazar]

Whooo Hoo! She rocks!

I like the present Black Stealth colour scheme!

[Jose Carumba]

That hull looks very very nice, even with the rat rod color scheme.

[SecondWindNC]

Wow, she looks great. Just need a shot with Thumper in it for scale.

[Bob Perry]

Thanks. We are very lucky to have the PSC team working on this project.

[Trickypig]

Cool

[wick]

Great milestone in the build.

[Salazar]

Bob, I'm too lazy to reread the whole thread to find the answer. What are we looking at here? Is this black gel coat with mold release wax? Or is this hull to be painted? If it is to be painted what is giving the hull the dark colour now? Tks.

[Rasputin22]

I spoke with one of the managers at PSC today and had the same question. I thought it might be black tooling gelcoat, but he told me it was just the regular black gel coat that would be used on any molded hull. It will be sanded and primed and painted after the joins to the deck are done and will be a sprayed with a topcoat over the primer. I was hoping that they would buff out a section of the hull to see just how well the female tooled CNC mold that was done from the Rhino 3d files looked. The part looks great and everyone is very excited about the chick that just hatched from its egg the day after Easter. There will be a big summit of the whole design team at PSC very soon and we are all anxious to see the Catari in all its unfinished glory.

[Bob Perry]

Sal:
They are fucking with you.
I will tell you the honest truth.
CATARI has carbon fiber skins over a foam core. We have been keeping this secret because we know that the Lyle Hess school of cruising yacht design would shit a brick if they knew we were going with CF for the hull skins.

[floating dutchman]

Sal:
They are fucking with you.
I will tell you the honest truth.
CATARI has carbon fiber skins over a foam core. We have been keeping this secret because we know that the Lyle Hess school of cruising yacht design would shit a brick if they knew we were going with CF for the hull skins.

Is it actually possible to build a boat of this size without it sinking because of it's own weight unless you build it from CF?  A boat this size must weigh heaps!

I guess it's all about the shape,  some shapes are more buoyant than others.

[Innocent Bystander]

Sal:
They are fucking with you.
I will tell you the honest truth.
CATARI has carbon fiber skins over a foam core. We have been keeping this secret because we know that the Lyle Hess school of cruising yacht design would shit a brick if they knew we were going with CF for the hull skins.

Is it actually possible to build a boat of this size without it sinking because of it's own weight unless you build it from CF?  A boat this size must weigh heaps!
I guess it's all about the shape,  some shapes are more buoyant than others.

That's what bothers me about Kim's boat. Too skinny to float 62' of construction material.

[Bob Perry]

IB/Floater:

Stop worrying. Do you really think I'd draw a boat that wouldn't float? LOA doesn't float a boat. Volume floats a boat. Yes, the boat will sink but just enough to displace it's weight in water. What's left over we can call "freeboard". Sometimes I am amazed by the way  some of you very succesful and intelligent people, some of you with actual rows of initials after your names,  get bamboozzled by the simple elements of yacht design.

 

On the other hand maybe if you, like me, had thought about little else since you were 14 years old it would all make perfect sense. I'm still working on the "perfect" part.

[kdh]

I too am not sure the boat will float. 

[Bob Perry]

Too many initials after your name kdh?

[kdh]

Probably.

[Amati]

Gentleman, in a Scientific American article, the theory of gravity was expanded, experimentally, to hold that as a body goes faster in a straight line over the surface of the earth, it in effect loses weight, or mass.

If you conclude that CF boats, because of the established intrinsic nature of CF, sail faster, on average, a corollary can be postulated that CF boats have potential speed, which may be added to their speed over the earth, which may be generalized for our present purposes as a straight line. The obvious conclusion will be seen immediately: CF potential speed + speed over the surface of the earth will result in even lower weight or mass of the canoe hull, which lowers the displacement needed for the hull, except at rest, when it can be assumed sea state is not an issue, as the boat can be assumed to be in a marina, so unless a large powerboat passes by, throwing a larger than normal (statistically) wake, freeboard is not as much an issue as usually thought necessary.

Although the color of the sailboat currently under construction is worrisome- because of Stross's physical observation that if a hull seems smaller, it IS smaller (capitals added by the author), which may reduce displacement without a concomitant reduction in construction materials- I believe that it will not reduce displacement enough to make up for CF potential speed/mass effects.

I don't believe Kim needs to worry about the displacement/ construction conundrum, since slender hull forms sail faster, and the initial (above) gravitational laws and corollary apply, as well as the boat formerly known as Splinter will be, as far as I know, be painted white, which will then exploit the inverse of Stross's observation (sic). Although the color of the bottom paint and cove stripe may be worrisome. However, given Mr. Perry's diligent weight studies, this may not be an issue.

I would also encourage any reader to peruse the 2nd edition of The Journal of Irreproducible Results for a more theoretical discussion of this important topic.

Yours,

P Fredrik Scott

[Bob Perry]

What Paul said!

 

Das Reingold in 6 minutes.

Double shitski! I must have read the schedule wrong.

[sam_crocker]

Gentleman, in a Scientific American article, the theory of gravity was expanded, experimentally, to hold that as a body goes faster in a straight line over the surface of the earth, it in effect loses weight, or mass.

If you conclude that CF boats, because of the established intrinsic nature of CF, sail faster, on average, a corollary can be postulated that CF boats have potential speed, which may be added to their speed over the earth, which may be generalized for our present purposes as a straight line. The obvious conclusion will be seen immediately: CF potential speed + speed over the surface of the earth will result in even lower weight or mass of the canoe hull, which lowers the displacement needed for the hull, except at rest, when it can be assumed sea state is not an issue, as the boat can be assumed to be in a marina, so unless a large powerboat passes by, throwing a larger than normal (statistically) wake, freeboard is not as much an issue as usually thought necessary.

Yours,

P Fredrik Scott

Ah, so that's why they give a penalty in the rating for CF boats.  And I just thought it was politics.

[Amati]

The magic of physics.

In the Chaucerian sense...

[Tom Ray]

Is that just blue masking tape? Or what? And why?

[Bob Perry]

Tom:

I have no idea. Looks like masking tape to me. Could be there to help establish some reference marks on the crdle and scaffolding.

[Hike, Bitches!]

Awesome. I drove up to Havre de Grace, MD from Solomons yesterday and I thought about being lucky enough to see Catari on the Severn River someday.

 

Good to see the chick hatched.

 

Really cool.

[rattus32]

What Paul said!

 

Das Reingold in 6 minutes.

Double shitski! I must have read the schedule wrong.

If they're going to perform Das Rheingold in 6 minutes, I hope they have Alvin and the Chipmunks lined up for the chorus :^)

[Bob Perry]

Rat:

That was very funny. I'd like to hear that.

[floating dutchman]

IB/Floater:

Stop worrying. Do you really think I'd draw a boat that wouldn't float? LOA doesn't float a boat. Volume floats a boat. Yes, the boat will sink but just enough to displace it's weight in water. What's left over we can call "freeboard". Sometimes I am amazed by the way  some of you very succesful and intelligent people, some of you with actual rows of initials after your names,  get bamboozzled by the simple elements of yacht design.

 

On the other hand maybe if you, like me, had thought about little else since you were 14 years old it would all make perfect sense. I'm still working on the "perfect" part.

I think that just maybe you should consider your leg well and truly pulled.

 

Didn't some fella work this all this all out a while back?  Archimedes maybe?

[Tom Ray]

If you turn the volume up to 11, does a boat float higher?

[slap]

If you turn the volume up to 11, does a boat float higher?

Lower.  The high sound volume causes the water to become aerated, reducing the density.

 

 

[Bob Perry]

Slap:

stop talking like that. Next thing you know kdh will be working on a formula for volume vs sinkage.

[Jose Carumba]

pounds per db immersion ratio?

[Bob Perry]

Jose:

I'd have to check with our resident mathmetician, kdh, but I think you need a factor for frequency in there. I mean there are bubbles and then there are BUBBLES.

[WarBird]

All this talk of CF skins has me worried. The boat might be so light that she floats well above her DL.  When that happens her W/L goes way down, her theortical hull speed follows and she'll sail like a dog.  Do not take the weight out of her!!!!

[Jose Carumba]

Jose:

I'd have to check with our resident mathmetician, kdh, but I think you need a factor for frequency in there. I mean there are bubbles and then there are BUBBLES.

 

Being that you are bass player my guess is that you design to the lower frequencies and big bottom bubbles, but I could be wrong.

[Bob Perry]

Jose:

Yeah, you are right. I do like "big bottom bubbles".

 

Speaking of that did you watch the girls final four last night?

[Amati]

What Paul said!
 
Das Reingold in 6 minutes.
Double shitski! I must have read the schedule wrong.

If they're going to perform Das Rheingold in 6 minutes, I hope they have Alvin and the Chipmunks lined up for the chorus :^)

Helden tenors sucking down helium! Keeeiil da wabbit! Keeiil da wabbit!

But really, in reality, during the forest scene, sometimes a guy in a bear costume shows up. Smokey without the HAT! It's so transparent! And CHEESEY! One of the arguments against what used to be the Texaco Theatre of the Mind. But you've got to see the bear! It's in Wadsworth's production. It makes Smokey look like Tha Rock!


It's better that you just listen......

Siegfried.

His theme is only one note longer than the opening theme of the Symphony Fantastique! Wagner, um, 'borrowed' the rest. Which gets us back to CF. Really!

[miloman]

Helden tenors sucking down helium! Keeeiil da wabbit! Keeiil da wabbit!

 

Helden Tenors and Dramatic Sopranos on helium.  The best thing about Alvin the chipmunk is that he can't project.  Imagine a chipmunk that can sing down an orchestra, dear god.

 

But really, in reality, during the forest scene, sometimes a guy in a bear costume shows up. Smokey without the HAT! It's so transparent! And CHEESEY! One of the arguments against what used to be the Texaco Theatre of the Mind. But you've got to see the bear! It's in Wadsworth's production. It makes Smokey look like Tha Rock!

 

Unless Bob's staying for two more operas he won't get to see those goodies.  But there are some good Mermaids in the opening scene - perhaps inspiration for Catari's?

[Amati]

Only if she were sinking. Which would suck.

Reinmaidens are never good. Unless they're good....

You see my point.

And then there's Skithblathnir. Unobtanium in Norse longboat form. A high Bruce Number, Bruce.

"you're name is not Bruce?"

"no, it's Fafner"

And Bob's your uncle.

Maybe there is something in spaghetti opera after all.

Alvin singing from his diaphragm. Dear God indeed. I would throw plates. But with malicious intent.

[DA-WOODY]

Jose:

Yeah, you are right. I do like "big bottom bubbles".

 

Speaking of that did you watch the girls final four last night?

[Bob Perry]

Thanks Woody. At least you got my joke.

[WHL]

Well,we're airborn and heading for the PSC pig roast !!!

[kimbottles]

Well,we're airborn and heading for the PSC pig roast !!!

I for one am very jealous of you two!

 

Take pictures please and say "hi" to Bill Kund for me if he is there.

 

Cheers!

[starkindler]

Tell them to reconsider the P38. You can get rid of the skeg for a small extra charge

[WHL]

We're sitting at the airport in Greenville starting the trip back.
It was a very productive day and change going through the mockups in the hull and on the deck.
As could be expected there were details discussed to redesign some aspects. The standard phrase from Bob, after various new ideas were bounced around, was "if you just build what I drew.... It works"......and the often stated reply was " oh yeah... look at at that! It works as drawn"

Will post pics later.... Boarding now....

[kimbottles]

We're sitting at the airport in Greenville starting the trip back.
It was a very productive day and change going through the mockups in the hull and on the deck.
As could be expected there were details discussed to redesign some aspects. The standard phrase from Bob, after various new ideas were bounced around, was "if you just build what I drew.... It works"......and the often stated reply was " oh yeah... look at at that! It works as drawn"

Will post pics later.... Boarding now....

Yeah, he says that up at the Sliver Project rather often........and of course he is always right. Just look at the drawings and build what he drew........

[Bob Perry]

We are back. WHL is still here and asleep. I hate travelling. ND is generous so we both sat in the front of the plane and it was still bloody uncomfortable. We played with WHL's GPS program all the way home. so we could track our course, SOG, COG ETA and Alt. That made it kind of fun. WHL is a whizz at it.  We sent advice to the cockpit at regular intervals. The flight attendant predicted some strong turbulence in the midwest but WHL downloaded a weather GRIB for the area, superimposed it over our flight path GPS program and we watched the screen and looked out the windows as the pilot skillfully wound the plane through a very narrow "channel" through the storm clouds and ne never felt a bump. I was impressed. The flight attendant was a bit annoyed when I asked her to ask the pilot what out air speed was so we could compare it to our COG and VMG figures but by the end of the flight she was a believer and she was asking WHL about ETA.

 

ND's boat is very nice. We had a productive day and a half at the yard. The PSC guys have done great mockup work so are able to sit around and test the various areas of the interior. Rasper was there too and he is always helpful with well thouight out design ideas. We sat around on the deck part trying to fine tune the deck layout aft. The PSC shop has to be one of the cleanest and most orderly I have ever seen. I think we are in very good hands, We didn't make any big changes. We moved a few things and inch or two and pretty much just marvelled at how well it was all working out. We did change from V berths in the forward cabin to an offset double berth to port.

 

We had dinner at Steve Brodie's beautifully restored house, it's like a museum, on Weds night and played some rowdy music around the campfire. One of Steve's workers Victor sang a particularily non PC song that got all of us laughing very hard. I'd be arrested if I sang that song in Seattle.

 

WHL took photos. I didn't. He'll post some later.

[boomer]

The PSC shop has to be one of the cleanest and most orderly I have ever seen.

 

Looking at the photos on their website,that was my impression, too.

 

Glad you all made it back safe and sound.

[Rasputin22]

PSC is the first boatbuilding (fiberglass) shop I ever saw that had its concrete floors mopped daily! It was great to finally meet Bob and WHL and ND. I understood and appreciated the PSC work ethic much better after visiting and having the pleasure of dinner at Steve's home and meeting his Dad. They spent 14 years lovingly moving and re-assembling their 1850's plantation home which says volumes about the unhurried and deliberate progress that we witnessed in the boatbuilding shed on Catari. ND made a wise choice for the builder of his dreamship, but that is not surprising when considering his choice of designer, Bob. I thought I had some great shots of the 'summit meeting' as we sat in the original mockup of the aft cockpit but they are not worth posting here. It would be wonderful if things here on this thread could return to where we were a few months ago when Bob was so generously sharing the design process, but a few ruined that for many. This is truly destined to be an exceptional vessel and look forward to seeing her on the water. 

[Leka]

Great thread, and I look forward to any crumbs of info shared.

 

The pride in the process shines through these posts.

 

Is a good thing to see in this world of take away, disposable, want now society we live in.

[Trickypig]

Not being a nag or anything... but can't wait to see the photos, WHL. 

[Ishmael]

Not being a nag or anything... but can't wait to see the photos, WHL. 

 

 

The drugstore won't have them back from the lab until Tuesday.

[Trickypig]

Not being a nag or anything... but can't wait to see the photos, WHL. 

 

 

The drugstore won't have them back from the lab until Tuesday.

Don't be silly ... he'll have gone to a fast film processor.

[WHL]

Not being a nag or anything... but can't wait to see the photos, WHL. 

 
 
The drugstore won't have them back from the lab until Tuesday.

Don't be silly ... he'll have gone to a fast film processor.

Ran out of digital film !
Will post tomorrow after extracting them from the camera and doctoring them to protect the innocent

[Jose Carumba]

Forgot to take the lens cap off, didn't you?

[Expat Canuck]

I hope the film didn't get ruined in the airport security x-ray!

[WHL]

Ok here are some. They were taken for marking up as we discuss small details via emai, phone etc.. enough to give you some idea. Note, before any comments arrive, the plastic buckets used for winches weren't yet placed where the winches will be. There are other pieces of wood laying on the deck as we mocked up clutch and turnng block locations and compared them to the deck plan.

 

 Catari sidedeck port1-sm.jpg   55.65K   78 downloads  Catari aft cabin partial mockup-sm.jpg   41.33K   104 downloads  Catari aft cockpit coaming starbd-sm.jpg   56.38K   110 downloads

 Catari aft cockpit-sm.jpg   78.04K   103 downloads  Catari butterflu hatch location-sm.jpg   54.77K   90 downloads  Catari coachroof fwd-sm.jpg   39.66K   82 downloads  Catari foredeck-sm.jpg   52.59K   82 downloads  Catari mockup pilot house1-sm.jpg   86.99K   63 downloads

[WHL]

and last but not least

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[Jose Carumba]

That's going to be one nice boat.

 

I also notice that PSC does the right thing and employs pixleheads.

[WHL]

That's going to be one nice boat.

 

I also notice that PSC does the right thing and employs pixleheads.

LOL just protecting the innocent

[austin1972]

Whoa, that is nice!  I especially like the door mat.

It's the only thing I could afford on her other than the buckets!

 

Really nice guys.  The side decks are so nice and wide.  And I could scoot myself right along leaning against that cabin.

[austin1972]

The flight attendant predicted some strong turbulence in the midwest but WHL downloaded a weather GRIB for the area, superimposed it over our flight path GPS program and we watched the screen and looked out the windows as the pilot skillfully wound the plane through a very narrow "channel" through the storm clouds and ne never felt a bump. I was impressed.

 

That was a hell of a storm you went through.  10.62" here.  I saw Noah's Ark float by in my (failed) attempt to get to work.

 

 

Seriously, who knew barns floated?

[Bob Perry]

It was very nice to sit around in the actual cockpit. PSC had mocked the entire cockpit and PH up prior to the deck tooling being completed so they knew it worked but I still had some concerns.

My biggest concern was that the aft cockpit would feel too tight. It's on two levels as you step down to get under the PH overhang. I was worried that the space nwtween the aft end of the overhang and the wheel would feel tight and constricted. I was wrong. The cockpit feels very big. We had six men sprawled around in it with room to spare.

[Joli]

It looks great guys!  I was having trouble visualizing the aft cockpit so went looking for the 3d renderings for a better understanding.  All I can say is Rasp has some amazing capabilities, it sure helps, wow!  It's going to be an awfully pretty boat.

 

Side note for ND; you mentioned upping the size of your bow thruster.  We use the Vetus 220 kgf, it's the largest 24 volt thruster they make.  It's fine till about 12 knots then the bow is pinned, the thruster will not lift it off the dock.  We either back against a spring in addition to the thruster (12 to 22 knots)  or warp around the pier end if it's blowing over 22.  I still would not be without it though.

[Bob Perry]

ND took some photos of the trip to PSC and our night at Steve Brodies fabulous home. We sat around a campfire about 50 yards from Steve's chicken coop. Everytime I would sing the rooster would start crowing, like clockwork. It became kind of a joke. I like to think the rooster just liked my voice. Maybe he felt threatened.

 

The deck poart id finished but the PH will be added as a seperate piece and bonded to the deck. The PSC guys mocked up the PH for us so what you se is a rough version of what the final product will be.

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[Bob Perry]

This pic shows Steve Brodie, Tim ( WHL) and me going over winch placement.

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[Joli]

It would be nice if you could get the winch inboard so you can get on top of it but that probably creates lead issues.  Maybe it doesn't matter if they will mostly be used as electric....

 

This pic shows Steve Brodie, Tim ( WHL) and me going over winch placement.

[Bob Perry]

Joli:

Yes you are correct they are electric and it matters little how far inboard they are. I assure you that this was discussed at length. Previously we had a winch island design that allowed you to stand over the winch but that was modified to what you see now to make room for sheet bins in the islands. ( they are really winch peninsulas)

[Joli]

Got it.  It's nice to stand over the winch but since they're electric I would give up the position in a heartbeat for the sheet bins.  Worse come to worse it looks like the bulwark is high enough to brace a foot against.  Will all the winches in the aft cockpit be powered?

 

Joli:

Yes you are correct they are electric and it matters little how far inboard they are. I assure you that this was discussed at length. Previously we had a winch island design that allowed you to stand over the winch but that was modified to what you see now to make room for sheet bins in the islands. ( they are really winch peninsulas)

[Bob Perry]

Yes, all are powered. We will array the buttons on the inboard face of the winch peninsulas. The winches are not so far outboard that you can't grind them manually. But that was not our primary focus of the current arrangement.

 

We had the benefit of also having the aft cockpit mockup still available for comparison. The old mockup had one side of the cockpit done as per current molded config and the other side done as I originally drew it. There are advantages to both ways but if you want sheet bins you do need the bigger peninsula. I know there is a tendancvy by some watching this project to assume that many of the decisions are arbitrary " designer whims". Nothing could be farther from the truth. Having WHL looking over my should at all times is enough to prvent that. Then through in ND, Steve Brodie, Rasper and Thumper the forman and you can rest assurred that each detail is highly scrutinized. Once and a while the detail as drawn is right. Small victories. But when it comes to organizing sheet leads, winch and clutch locations its has always been best to verify the design on the unfinished deck before anyone bolts anything down. The tolerances are surprisingly tight.

 

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[austin1972]

The latter.  Roosters suck (except for Foghorn Leghorn).  Used to keep rocks in my pockets just to get to my car in the morning.  Coyotes took care of them, thank god.

Hens are great.  They like to stand on my feet and cluck and coo. 

 

Roosters and tomcats just plain suck.

 

 

We sat around a campfire about 50 yards from Steve's chicken coop. Everytime I would sing the rooster would start crowing, like clockwork. It became kind of a joke. I like to think the rooster just liked my voice. Maybe he felt threatened.

[floating dutchman]

Is he going to have anything like this:

 

 remote.jpg   249.19K   59 downloads

[Bob Perry]

Don't think that would work with our set up Floater. Our four winches aft will do double duty. The set up you show would work if each function had a dedicated winch. We don't.