1778 replies to this topic

[Merrill Levi]

These are getting close to the 1mb limit on SA so have to be done one at a time. I'll sort this out and turn it back over to Bob for posting after compressing the files I send to him further. Another test...

Rasp - your CAD work is fantastic, I have been teaching myself CAD for a few years (Archicad) drawing box things (buildings) - I will need a frikken Delorean to get anywhere close to your drawings. I am sure it helps when you have beautiful things to draw - thanks Bob & ND.



dolphin door handles - really?

ML

[Tom Ray]

I took these pics of this great dinghy at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival. The locking screws are custom made and very easy to use. By all accounts it sails and rows really well and is easy to assemble in the water.

More nester pictures...The workmanship on these are just first class all the way!

Thanks for the nester porn. What a cool little boat! Like many other boats, I want one!

[Tucky]

Rasp here. Just trying to post some more renderings without downsizing. Bob said he was getting kicked out at the resolution that I was providing to him. Hope this isn't a problem because we all want you to see the latest.

I like that you show the boat from different heights- it is the best way to get a feel for how the mass of the boat will feel as she goes by. So many boats look good from one angle and fat or wrong from another. This boat is looking powerful and purposeful from every angle, which I think is the test of a balanced design.

[Innocent Bystander]

dolphin door handles - really?

ML

Speaking of decorative touches, we were promised mermaids. Where are the mermaids?

[Bob Perry]

IB:
The mermaids are in the works. We worked on mermainds pretty hard for a couple of days and I think Jody, ND and I had a bit of mermaid overload. I got my feelings hurt when someone said my latest mermaind looked like one of those s.s. girls you see on the mud flaps of truck. Actually, they were right.

Here is some of Jody's latest work as he begins to sprinkle in all the small details. There are many more to come but we are slowly getting there.

Attached Files

•  Catari224.jpg   854K   149 downloads

[Innocent Bystander]

IB:
The mermaids are in the works. We worked on mermainds pretty hard for a couple of days and I think Jody, ND and I had a bit of mermaid overload. I got my feelings hurt when someone said my latest mermaind looked like one of those s.s. girls you see on the mud flaps of truck. Actually, they were right.

Here is some of Jody's latest work as he begins to sprinkle in all the small details. There are many more to come but we are slowly getting there.

Where I live, the mudflap girls would connect ND well with many of our residents.

[kdh]

Deck non-skid that dark is going to be hot, even in New England. The mudflap girls will burn their feet.

[sailglobal]

IB:


Here is some of Jody's latest work as he begins to sprinkle in all the small details. There are many more to come but we are slowly getting there.

Looking good,,,,,,, Center cockpit seat backs? Ted Hood did a neat thing on a ketch called Solution. He had removable seat backs made from a teak plank about 1"x 6" supported by 1" ss tubes which fitted into recessed sockets each end of the winch platforn behind the seat backs. Easy to remove when sailing and provided great back support at anchor. In a pinch they could double for fender boards, but if they were varnished to compliment the cockpit they might get scuffed up against the dock. My apologies if it's offensive,,,,,,

[SecondWindNC]

Amazing renderings of what is going to be a stunning boat. Great work by the team so far!

These last few renderings show teak decks and hull ports; have those been added in recently, or still under consideration?

[kdh]

Wind, The hull ports have been planned all along and I don't believe teak decks are.

[Bob Perry]

Global:
That suggestion is not offensive at all. Keep them coming. Originally we had removable rails that would have extended the height of the seat back. But after sitting around on the mock up ND felt the seat back without the rails was high enough and quite comfortable. So we got rid of the rails. Your idea is fine but I am trying to almost hide that CC and I don;t want to draw attention to it with any kind of aesthetically heavy element. A lot of time has gone into making the cc just what you see now. I'm working away on a new 110'er for a French client who is due to show up here next week and while I'm doing that I am missing my son terribly so there is no chance you can offend me right now.

[Beau.Vrolyk]

Bob,

Spike is looking over your shoulder. It shows every day in the great work you do. This weekend, Spike will be with us a little on S'agapo as we stretch the Burgee a bit while sailing.

I like the "idea" of removable rails on the cockpit, but stuff like that is awfully hard to stow efficiently. Eventually, on our big boat, we felt we were drowning in "stuff" that was used only occasionally. The idea of a boat with less "stuff" has great appeal.

BV

[Nessun Dorma]

I'll take two please, one brunette adn one blond.

The teak decking is shown way too dark I agree. It looks wet or worse yet fussy gloss finished.

Deck non-skid that dark is going to be hot, even in New England. The mudflap girls will burn their feet.

[Nessun Dorma]

Thats why we got rid of the rauils -- stwoage. We looked at lowering them into sockets but then theres the dranaige issue. Its more complex than it seems. in the end, given the use of the CC we elected to get rid o them..

Bob,

Spike is looking over your shoulder. It shows every day in the great work you do. This weekend, Spike will be with us a little on S'agapo as we stretch the Burgee a bit while sailing.

I like the "idea" of removable rails on the cockpit, but stuff like that is awfully hard to stow efficiently. Eventually, on our big boat, we felt we were drowning in "stuff" that was used only occasionally. The idea of a boat with less "stuff" has great appeal.

BV

[Bob Perry]

Beau:
Thanks for that. I think that's the thought I am going to keep in my head as I work along today.

I clean his glasses every morning. I put some more dough in his wallet today. I can't do much. I need to take the Swiffer to his bedroom. Spike didn't like dust.

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[PNW Matt B]

Beau:
Thanks for that. I think that's the thought I am going to keep in my head as I work along today.

I clean his glasses every morning. I put some more dough in his wallet today. I can't do much. I need to take the Swiffer to his bedroom. Spike didn't like dust.

I'm also moving Firefly to her slip tonight (fired up the engine last night for the first time in three years... only took twenty minutes of tinkering and fussing and grinding the start motor.) I ran a temporary signal halyard to the spreader last night just to make sure Spike could go along and keep me company.

[Bob Perry]

Hey Matt:
That means a lot to me. Spike would love your boat.

Congrats on moving the boat under it's own power.

[Hike, Bitches!]

I took these pics of this great dinghy at the Port Townsend Wooden Boat Festival. The locking screws are custom made and very easy to use. By all accounts it sails and rows really well and is easy to assemble in the water.

ND, sorry for the continued hijack. kimb..thanks..yes PT is the e-mail list I am on. I'd really like to buy their kit and build one of these. It might be overkill for my Catalina 30, but it would fit under the boom nested, and then I could keep the tender if I ever upgraded boats...(don't tell the Catalina! ) - I'd really like a nice rowing dinghy I could take Mrs. Bitches ashore in without carrying an outboard on the stern rail, as well as something I would enjoy getting into at sunrise or sunset and tool around whatever anchorage I am in..sailing or rowing.

Everything is moving along I see. Bob, I agree with Beau..Spike is helping to influence your current work..it is simply amazing, as evidenced in Rasp's latest renderings..& I am not just pumping your ego.

[rattus32]

Not to be a party pooper but there are still 2 little things that bug me on an almost perfect boat - a) the center cockpit dodger seems to have grown to the point that it looks like it's dominating the profile, appearing taller and with the increased front slope somewhat mismatched with that of the main cockpit house. I fully understand the reasons for the elongated companionway, but couldn't a folding canvas dodger do the job? In the rain or wind no one will be looking, and when things calm down you can fold it down for ultimate aesthetic appeal.

those oval ports amidst a sea of rectangular ones...

Mike

[savoir]

The centre cockpit dodger is folding. See posts 751 and 794.

Go gotta keep off that cheap supermarket cheese rattus.

[Bob Perry]

Mike:
I don't think you are paying attention.
The center cockpit dodger is canvas, always was and can be easily folded down.
The oval port in the dodger is there to echo the oval port in the pilot house aft.

[Tom Ray]

The boat still looks to me like it would be at home in a cold and rainy place.

A morning thunderstorm has cooled things down into the upper 70's here in the pre-dawn hour. Very nice.

Another thing that is nice in a hot place is shade...

[Paps]

Beau:
Thanks for that. I think that's the thought I am going to keep in my head as I work along today.

I clean his glasses every morning. I put some more dough in his wallet today. I can't do much. I need to take the Swiffer to his bedroom. Spike didn't like dust.

Bob:
Sorry to buck the trend but I don't think those feelings are helping. What would Spike think of you cleaning his glasses every morning?

Re Catari, do you think this is possibly the most design intense project you have ever done? It seems it is to me. The intense focus, the hours of design, the involvement of elements of the WLYDO, the spectacular renderings by Sons and Putin?

Have you ever been as free as a designer to put so much in to one boat?

And having the Sliver project running concurrently which is another free design project. A customer who just wants your essence.

Spike would be proud. Sorry if I have spoken out of turn. He would want you to get out of this funk and enjoy the present.

Dont feel guilty as a survivor. Make your son proud. Sorry for putting this on a public forum, then again you dont answer personal messages in the site, so I am frustrated in a way.

Love and respect, Bruce.

And huge Kudos to Kimb and ND, grand projects make a designer's life worth living and both your boats are showcases for Bobs skills, in a big way. Both are shall we say open ended projects driven by the dreams of the creators. Its a nice place to be for all.

Over and out from the Southern Hemisphere.

[olaf hart]

Brought to you by the HTFU school of therapy ....

I'm a member of the take as long as you want society.

[Bob Perry]

Paps:
I have been extremely lucky to have ND and Kim with new projects for me during this time. I also have a new Swedish client. I may have a new French client by this time next week too. I am very fortunate. Both ND's and Kim's projects have been very enjoyable for me. It's fun to have the freedom and budget to get so deep into a new design. When I started with ND I told him that "I want a design budget that will allow me to do my best work." ND has generously provided that. Kim was a bit different because he came by one day. We chatted for 20 minutes. I sketched, with an actual pencil for 15 minutes. We both stared at the sketch for 5 minutes. Then Kim said, "Let's build it."

That wasn't exactly how it happened but it's a close synopsis. That's how we'll write the scene in the movie.

I just realized that I have a "green job".

[Bob Perry]

Here some of Jody's "dailies" from yesterday. See if you can spot the "in house joke".

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[kimbottles]

Here some of Jody's "dailies" from yesterday. See if you can spot the "in house joke".

Why do you have that rusty bracket holding the shackle on the starboard stern quarter and why is the dink not a Russell Brown nester?

[WHL]

Here some of Jody's "dailies" from yesterday. See if you can spot the "in house joke".

Why do you have that rusty bracket holding the shackle on the starboard stern quarter and why is the dink not a Russell Brown nester?

Exactly !!

[Soñadora]

The 'I' character is still wrong

[Bob Perry]

Kim:
Winner! Winner!

It's a long story but once and a while we like to have some fun with ND just to check if he's paying attention.

[kimbottles]

Kim:
Winner! Winner!

It's a long story but once and a while we like to have some fun with ND just to check if he's paying attention.

I got your back Paul.

[Steam Flyer]

Here some of Jody's "dailies" from yesterday. See if you can spot the "in house joke".

I really like the roller chocks built into the davit base

Need a better looking dinghy, though. A 16' Whitehall would be a bit too big (and probably too tippy) but a smaller wherry style could be almost as pretty (and not tippy)

FB- Doug

[Jose Carumba]

The forward Maytag port on the hull looks a little bit too high to my eye. It looks like it could be following the guard too closely. Unless it conflicts with the interior arrangement I think it might look a bit better in a slightly lower position.

[Nessun Dorma]

Translation: ND is the high maintenance, pain in the ass, obsessive, client who wants a complex boat but who pays well, kim is the easy going and less tightly wrapped cient who pays well. I'm guilty.

Paps:
I have been extremely lucky to have ND and Kim with new projects for me during this time. I also have a new Swedish client. I may have a new French client by this time next week too. I am very fortunate. Both ND's and Kim's projects have been very enjoyable for me. It's fun to have the freedom and budget to get so deep into a new design. When I started with ND I told him that "I want a design budget that will allow me to do my best work." ND has generously provided that. Kim was a bit different because he came by one day. We chatted for 20 minutes. I sketched, with an actual pencil for 15 minutes. We both stared at the sketch for 5 minutes. Then Kim said, "Let's build it."

That wasn't exactly how it happened but it's a close synopsis. That's how we'll write the scene in the movie.

I just realized that I have a "green job".

[Nessun Dorma]

I'm paying attention. I thought that drogue bracket needed to be 50% larger. i was going to ask why it was so small, but now I guess I won't ...

Kim:
Winner! Winner!

It's a long story but once and a while we like to have some fun with ND just to check if he's paying attention.

[kdh]

I'm paying attention. I thought that drogue bracket needed to be 50% larger. i was going to ask why it was so small, but now I guess I won't ...

Kim:
Winner! Winner!

It's a long story but once and a while we like to have some fun with ND just to check if he's paying attention.

And here I don't even know what a "drogue bracket" is.

[Bob Perry]

kdh:
I think it's that crotch pouch thing the gang in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE wore.

Jose:
Get back to work!
That forward hull port has to work with the pilot berth height.
You see guys, what you often fail to remember is that there are almost no details to this boat that have the luxury of being arbitrary.
My talent, if I may be so bold, is my ablity to balance and manipulate multiple hard, fixed requirements and not end up withj a boat that looks like pig shit.
This is like a Chinese puzzle. You move one piece and you have to move 32 other pieces and some of those pieces have spacial priority over the single piece you might like to see moved.

"Which few did you have in mind Majesty?"

[Jose Carumba]

Yeah I figured as much. Sometimes I have to fight having portlights in the middle of the upper bunks in the fwd crew quarters. I move them up but then with the amount of flare we have in our hulls the portlights end up pointing into the overhead. SInce our hull ports are recessed in spigots we can rotate them a bit to solve that but then the shape of the spigot opening against the hull can take on an odd shape. But hey that's waht makes the job fun and challenging.

[kdh]

kdh:
I think it's that crotch pouch thing the gang in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE wore.

Apparently that's called a "codpiece."

Codpiece

[Nessun Dorma]

But those are his drougies. Great movie, way underrated.

kdh:
I think it's that crotch pouch thing the gang in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE wore.

Apparently that's called a "codpiece."

Codpiece

[Bob Perry]

Oh, you mean those are not drogue brackets. Damn. Well, I still need a bracket for my drogue.

Jose:
I see those weird looking insets in your hull ports and I think they look cool.

[Jose Carumba]

Thanks Bob.

[Bob Perry]

Jose:
I see those insets and I think, "That is some fucking amazing geometry."

[Beau.Vrolyk]

And here I thought the inside joke was that there's only a mizzen sheet, no main sheet.... ah well, back to work.

BV

[Bob Perry]

BV:
I thought the galvanized shackle was a nice touch and Jody rendered it perfectly.

[Innocent Bystander]

And here I thought the inside joke was that there's only a mizzen sheet, no main sheet.... ah well, back to work.

BV

I thought it was the sunbrella leech cover on the headsail. There are other options for UV protection.

[Bob Perry]

IB:
We are not overly concerned with exactly how the sails are rendered. If they look like sails then we are fine with them. Drawing sails is a bitch. The les you show the better off you are. But Jody doesn't work like that. He studies examples and tries to make it right.

I just got a call from a guy asking who was doing the 3d work on this project. He suggested that I should consider a guy in the Seattle area and he was confused as to why I would choose to work with a guy in Florida.
I told him to fuck off.

[Nessun Dorma]

+1 on the fuck off. Tell him if he tries to bust up my team we will send all of WLYDO on his ass. then we'll sue him.

IB:
We are not overly concerned with exactly how the sails are rendered. If they look like sails then we are fine with them. Drawing sails is a bitch. The les you show the better off you are. But Jody doesn't work like that. He studies examples and tries to make it right.

I just got a call from a guy asking who was doing the 3d work on this project. He suggested that I should consider a guy in the Seattle area and he was confused as to why I would choose to work with a guy in Florida.
I told him to fuck off.

[jhiller]

When is this party going to start ? Enough renderings already...... Build the damn boat before you get too old to enjoy it and Bob is too old to bask in the glory of his finest design.....
Rant mode offf

[Bob Perry]

James:
Build starts this month. We are going over very small details now to make sure the design is as close to perfect as possible. With CNC tooling we have to know exactly where we are going first before some one pushes the "start" button on the CNC machine. I don't want any "Oh shit" moments.

Didn't Perry Como do a song like that, "Oh shit moments"?

[wick]

I thought the joke was that the center cockpit grate was raised into a table position. I believe someone had made the comment that it would not be too appetizing to eat off that with various samples of detritus clinging to it. Mmmmm.

[Bob Perry]

Well Wick, that's a problem you probably won't ever have to deal with.
I'm fine eating off a plate in my lap. I don't need no stinkin' table.

[kdh]

+1 on the fuck off. Tell him if he tries to bust up my team we will send all of WLYDO on his ass. then we'll sue him.

Greever will lead the charge. Who heads up WLYDO legal?

Wick, we don't joke around here. This is very serious business. Especially when it comes to drogue brackets.

[steele]

Jose:
I see those insets and I think, "That is some fucking amazing geometry."

Now I really want to see those insert things, any pics? Would they work on a 40 year old Tartan? Could they be painted orange to increase VMG?

[wick]

I don't need no stinkin' table.

I do like a table in the cockpit. We use some enamelled metal plates and they get hot on the legs. $8 at Walmart IIRC. All that would fit on a 17' boat.

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[SpongeDeckSquareFoil]

Wick, that thingy stuff or whatever it is on the table just looks all wrong. Hope you didn't eat it.
It's something for the dog, isn't it?

[Ishmael]

Wick, that thingy stuff or whatever it is on the table just looks all wrong. Hope you didn't eat it.
It's something for the dog, isn't it?

I thought it was something he had caught. I have seen a few jellyfish that looked sorta like that.

[sam_crocker]

For the Vic-Maui in 2000, we got some nice big bowls for the crew. The bottom was rubberized and they had two big ears coming off the rim. They nested nicely between your legs and the ears kept it from sliding down. I think we got them at Petco.

The best part was drinking the ritual rum from them as we crossed the finish line.

[rattus32]

Mike:
I don't think you are paying attention.
The center cockpit dodger is canvas, always was and can be easily folded down.
The oval port in the dodger is there to echo the oval port in the pilot house aft.

Sorry Bob, the post #806 sure makes it look like a hard dodger. It's all in the texture. I should have realized everything's subject to further refinement.

As to the oval ports... they could *both* be changed, bulkhead locations and all. ;-)

Mike

[Nessun Dorma]

We love our oval ports. We love our little round hull ports too. And the rectangular ports in the house sides. And the square windows as well. And deck prisms we haven't shown yet.

You can design a boat with all the openings being identical. It's a look. It's not complex, but it's soothing. Like humming "Twinkle Twinkle Little Star".

Mixing multiple windows shapes at different sizes and eye levels and having the resultant boat look natural and coordinated is more complex. Bob has a real talent for it, and the result to me is far more interesting. Like Mozart's 12 Variations on Ah vous dirai-je Maman (aka his 12 variations on twinkle twinkle).

That's why Bob gets to wear that silly crown and sit in the clouds in his avatar.

Mike:
I don't think you are paying attention.
The center cockpit dodger is canvas, always was and can be easily folded down.
The oval port in the dodger is there to echo the oval port in the pilot house aft.

Sorry Bob, the post #806 sure makes it look like a hard dodger. It's all in the texture. I should have realized everything's subject to further refinement.

As to the oval ports... they could *both* be changed, bulkhead locations and all. ;-)

Mike

[Paps]

Paps:
I have been extremely lucky to have ND and Kim with new projects for me during this time. I also have a new Swedish client. I may have a new French client by this time next week too. I am very fortunate. Both ND's and Kim's projects have been very enjoyable for me. It's fun to have the freedom and budget to get so deep into a new design. When I started with ND I told him that "I want a design budget that will allow me to do my best work." ND has generously provided that. Kim was a bit different because he came by one day. We chatted for 20 minutes. I sketched, with an actual pencil for 15 minutes. We both stared at the sketch for 5 minutes. Then Kim said, "Let's build it."

That wasn't exactly how it happened but it's a close synopsis. That's how we'll write the scene in the movie.

I just realized that I have a "green job".

Bob:

That was exactly what I was getting at, you being in your "dotage" and all!

Being serious, it must be a pleasure to have this quality of work at a point where you are well into your career, its a testament to you in so many ways.

Often an artists work is truly appreciated only in retrospect. Some like Bill Garden and F L Wright are recognised in their lifetimes, almost., I am happy you are in their company.

[Paps]

But those are his drougies. Great movie, way underrated.

kdh:
I think it's that crotch pouch thing the gang in A CLOCKWORK ORANGE wore.

Apparently that's called a "codpiece."

Codpiece

One hell of a movie ND I agree.

+1 on the fuck off. Tell him if he tries to bust up my team we will send all of WLYDO on his ass. then we'll sue him.

IB:
We are not overly concerned with exactly how the sails are rendered. If they look like sails then we are fine with them. Drawing sails is a bitch. The les you show the better off you are. But Jody doesn't work like that. He studies examples and tries to make it right.

I just got a call from a guy asking who was doing the 3d work on this project. He suggested that I should consider a guy in the Seattle area and he was confused as to why I would choose to work with a guy in Florida.
I told him to fuck off.

Ok where is the WYLDO Rottie? If Greever is otherwise engaged it must fall to me but I am more of a lover/wimp pretending to be a Doberman type but will man up if necessary.

[Gatekeeper]

I think Rasps is finally getting the sails rendered properly...

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[Bob Perry]

Mike, I wouldn't dream of changing the oval "ports". In fact they are not ports at all. They are deadlights and I really like the look.

Morning Papster.
Dotage"? WTF!

[kdh]

Time to put our codpieces on and kick some ass, Bob? "Oval ports." Them's fightin' words.

[wick]

I think Rasps is finally getting the sails rendered properly...

Is that Elan or Panache?

[Gatekeeper]

As long as we are getting down to the fine tuning for the build...is all the deck hardware (where practical) going to be lifted on bosses?

I know this is likely a bit costlier, but it sure helps with preventing leaks, and dirt accumulation.

[Gatekeeper]

I think Rasps is finally getting the sails rendered properly...

Is that Elan or Panache?

You'll have to ask Bob or ND...but she'd make a heck of a mermaid!!

[wick]

Wick, that thingy stuff or whatever it is on the table just looks all wrong. Hope you didn't eat it.
It's something for the dog, isn't it?

I thought it was something he had caught. I have seen a few jellyfish that looked sorta like that.

No dog. No jelly fish. (fresh water) Was from a bakery in Little Current.

Back on track...the oval ports look good. The dodger looks great.

[Tom Ray]

Get yer choppers here!






I can appreciate the moxie of someone contacting Bob to try to get Rasp's job, but "He's in Florida" is not exactly a great pitch. He seems to be doing fine from Florida to me.

[Innocent Bystander]

I think Rasps is finally getting the sails rendered properly...

That's what I'm talking about. See how much better thay look without the "Pacific Blue" UV covers on the foot and leech.

[Bob Perry]

We are going to put bosses under the deck gear to raise it slightly above the level of the teak decking.
These bosses will be "innies" in the mold so if a subsequant boat is sold without teak decks then we can easily fill the recess in the mold temporarily.
Remember, bumps on the decks are recesses in the mold.

[wick]

We are going to put bosses under the deck gear to raise it slightly above the level of the teak decking.
These bosses will be "innies" in the mold so if a subsequant boat is sold without teak decks then we can easily fill the recess in the mold temporarily.
Remember, bumps on the decks are recesses in the mold.

Are hardware bosses used without teak decks? Height may be less than with teak?

[Gatekeeper]

I must be making the transition to house-husband successfully....I just looked at the latest renderings of Catari and thought "who is going to clean this thing"?

[Bob Perry]

Wick:
I explained that in my previous post. I thought I did.
Yes you can still have bosses if you do not have a teak deck. Or, you can have a deck without bosses at all if you don't have a teak deck.
You could also have a teak deck and no bosses but we are trying to avoid fastening hardware through the teak.
And yes, yoyu could even reduce the height of the boss if you wanted. It's just a matter of fitting a filler piece into the recess in the mold.

[Gatekeeper]

I may have some facts wrong but I believe Tartan incorporated aluminum plates within the deck layup and then drilled and tapped them to secure deck hardware...no backing plates.

Is this practical for Catari??

[Beau.Vrolyk]

I think Rasps is finally getting the sails rendered properly...

See, that's what I mean. The sails look a LOT better with hanks.

B-))

[Bob Perry]

Gate:
I have had builders imbed metal plates in the laminate before but down the road, say on a 25 year old boat, this has not proven a wise way to mount hardware.

[Gatekeeper]

Gate:
I have had builders imbed metal plates in the laminate before but down the road, say on a 25 year old boat, this has not proven a wise way to mount hardware.

I'm guessing the plates try to "escape" from the laminate?

I guess it does reduce the strength to what material remains above the metal plate.

[wick]

Wick:
I explained that in my previous post. I thought I did.
Yes you can still have bosses if you do not have a teak deck. Or, you can have a deck without bosses at all if you don't have a teak deck.
You could also have a teak deck and no bosses but we are trying to avoid fastening hardware through the teak.
And yes, yoyu could even reduce the height of the boss if you wanted. It's just a matter of fitting a filler piece into the recess in the mold.

Got it. Thanks. I read your last post as filling the innies completely. Which can be nice.

I guess if you are the boss of the deck, you can fill the innies any time you want.
Does WLYDO have an open position for deck boss?

[Cruisin Loser]

I may have some facts wrong but I believe Tartan incorporated aluminum plates within the deck layup and then drilled and tapped them to secure deck hardware...no backing plates.

Is this practical for Catari??

Gate:
I have had builders imbed metal plates in the laminate before but down the road, say on a 25 year old boat, this has not proven a wise way to mount hardware.

+100

With the sort of planning that has gone into this boat, I'd expect that deck core will be deleted in favor of solid laminate wherever there is hardware mounted.

[Bob Perry]

Loser:
I haven't seen the final deck lam schedule from the engineer yet but I think the plan is to use high density foam where there is hardware.

Gate: My fear would be tha over time s.s. machine screws going into an alu imbedded plate would be a corrosion problem.
Passport ran an imbedded mild steel strip down the bulwark so it could be drilled and tapped for stanchion bases. A good idea when the boat was new. Not so good on a 25 year old boat.

[Jose Carumba]

And yes, yoyu could even reduce the height of the boss if you wanted.

I don't think my boss would appreciate having his height reduced. Oh crap, here he co

[Ishmael]

And yes, yoyu could even reduce the height of the boss if you wanted.

I don't think my boss would appreciate having his height reduced. Oh crap, here he co

If my boss was any shorter, he'd vanish completely from some angles. Most days I wish he would.

[Bob Perry]

Well there is no confusion here. I am THE BOSS.
Now will someone please tell my pup that.

But don't tell the cat. I don't want hurt her feelings.

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[kimbottles]

Well there is no confusion here. I am THE BOSS.
Now will someone please tell my pup that.

But don't tell the cat. I don't want hurt her feelings.

I pretend that I am the Boss around here but my employees don't seem to pay much attention to what I say, so maybe I am not.....

[Tom Ray]

Well there is no confusion here. I am THE BOSS.
Now will someone please tell my pup that.

But don't tell the cat. I don't want hurt her feelings.

Is that a printer? That can go horribly wrong, you know.

[kdh]

Gate: My fear would be tha over time s.s. machine screws going into an alu imbedded plate would be a corrosion problem.

Passport ran an imbedded mild steel strip down the bulwark so it could be drilled and tapped for stanchion bases. A good idea when the boat was new. Not so good on a 25 year old boat.

Stainless steel into aluminum is bad enough, but buried mild steel is really bad.

Hinckley, according to the lore, delete the core and tap the solid fiberglass in addition to using a stainless backing plate. CL will know if I'm wrong.

[olaf hart]

The Chriscraft Apache embedded steel plates n the deck, big problem these days.
I had aluminium chain plates delaminate where they went through the deck.
The problem is you can't see the damage, so it just goes the one day you need it.

These days I drill oversize holes for fittings, fill the void with epoxy and silica, then re drill the hole.
Or you can also tap the second hole, so no fasteners under the deck.

[Gatekeeper]

What about SS plates in the hull??

Jib thinks there is some merit in the idea.

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[Ishmael]

What about SS plates in the hull??

Jib thinks there is some merit in the idea.

Jib isn't up on crevice corrosion...

[Bob Perry]

Isher is right. Crevis corrosion.

I think I get that but I buy this spray. It stings but it takes care of it.

[smackdaddy]

You know, WLYDO is rather formidable.

[Anomaly2]

Isher is right. Crevis corrosion.

I think I get that but I buy this spray. It stings but it takes care of it.

Ewwwwwww.

Oh well, I guess the bright side of this newsflash is that this ought to put an end to those dreams KD's been having about you Bob. If this doesn't do it, I don't want to know what it will take....

[Paps]

Isher is right. Crevis corrosion.

I think I get that but I buy this spray. It stings but it takes care of it.

Ewwwwwww.

Oh well, I guess the bright side of this newsflash is that this ought to put an end to those dreams KD's been having about you Bob. If this doesn't do it, I don't want to know what it will take....

That requires more iteration, or is that lubrication.

[Tom Ray]

What about SS plates in the hull??

Jib thinks there is some merit in the idea.

I think it will work with SP steel, whenever they invent it. (StainPROOF, not StainLESS)

But it probably won't have iron in it, so will not be all that strong.

[floating dutchman]

What about SS plates in the hull??

Jib thinks there is some merit in the idea.

I think it will work with SP steel, whenever they invent it. (StainPROOF, not StainLESS)

But it probably won't have iron in it, so will not be all that strong.

Ah yes, when High carbon steel becomes just carbon.

When they invent it, I'll be the best thing since sliced bread.

[Gatekeeper]

Will epoxy with the proper filler hold threads?

The more I work with WEST the more I am impressed by it, but this might be pushing it.

[Innocent Bystander]

Will epoxy with the proper filler hold threads?

The more I work with WEST the more I am impressed by it, but this might be pushing it.

WEST says it will if the threads are "Cast" by coating the fastener and setting it in the epoxy.

[Rasputin22]

Gate,

WEST System (or any decent epoxy) when mixed with the right blend of milled fibers, silica, and talc makes a hardware bonding bog that is way tougher that you would ever suspect. You just need to get enough area of thread and surrounding wood and usually lots of small fasteners spread out are way better than a few large ones. I had taken on a delivery job of a 53' daycharter 'cattlemaran' built in St Croix to Hawaii and had asked a very competent full time professional yacht captain between jobs to be my first mate. He looked over the brand new boat and in particular the tang that the mainsheet mounted and then the two chainplates down in the hull. With only two shrouds and a headstay to hold up the large rotating wing mast, there is no redundancy in the standing rigging and he was impressed by the large very substantial chainplates with perhaps 36 1/4" machine screws showing on the chainplate side but then he would go into the next adjacent compartment and look at the backside of the bulkhead. He looked back and forth a couple of times and asked where the backing plate and nuts for all those machine screws were. The designer/builder went into his usual spiel about epoxy hardware bonding quoting the Gougeon Bros gospel and tensile strengths and so on and the doubter acknowledged but wanted to know how much some fender washers and nylock nuts would have cost or weighed in that case and the answer was that if you don't have faith in the epoxy bond, then you have no business being on that boat, especially in the middle of the Pacific. My mate just smiled and immediately turned and walked off of the boat...

The rule of thumb in that yard was that a 1/4" SS machine screw 2.5" minimum into plywood/timber using an 'annular boss' of about 1/2" diameter manages to latch onto enough surrounding wood fiber to exceed the shear strength of that screw. If a design had a fully laden displacement of 36,000 lbs then they would use 36 screws as they had figured that the sheer yield to be about 1,000 lbs each with safety factors added.

I did witness a Harken four hole diamond pad eye rated at 5,000 lbs SWL let go from a wood/epoxy wingmast on a 56' trimaran from the same shop. It was taking the full jib halyard load and popped in a race in perhaps a 25-30 knot williwaw coming down on us from a high headland. the top screw held and the corner of the eye where that top screw passed snapped off. the sheer load changed to an extractive load as the fitting peeled off and the two flanking screws broke at the heads and the bottom one bend almost double. The amazing thing is that the bail of the padeye had elongated to the point where it was aligned to the angle of the halyard load and stretched out maybe 1/4" in that direction. I thought that it was some special order fitting design and forged for that angle but it was just a standard diamond padeye. The owner just looked at the fitting and said, "next time we'll just use 5/16" machine screws..."