98 replies to this topic

[Spatial Ed]

http://news.yahoo.co...-015545142.html

"Osbon talked about his church and needed to focus," Whitworth said in the affidavit. "Osbon began talking about religion, but his statements were not coherent."
The copilot grew nervous when Osbon told them that "things just don't matter" and began yelling over the plane's radio system, telling air traffic controllers to "be quiet," according to Whitworth's account in the affidavit. "The First Officer became really worried when Osbon said, ‘We need to take a leap of faith'," Whitworth said in the document. "Osbon started trying to correlate completely unrelated numbers and he talked about the sins in Las Vegas. At one point, Osbon told the (first officer), ‘We're not going to Vegas,' and began giving what was described as a sermon."

[Occams Razor]

I think it's time for a religious test for jobs of public safety. If you're religious, you're out.

























Yes, that was tongue in cheek.

[Spatial Ed]

There is some merit in making sure pilots understand and accept science and will unquestionably follow the direction of a government authority.
Not sure fundies can do that.

[Olsonist]

This one had the makings of EgyptAir flight 990.

[kent_island_sailor]

You would NOT want such a pilot!
Tower (government authority):Cleared to take off, runway heading to 1,000 feet and then on course.
Me (questioning authority): Before or after the 737 on short final lands

There is some merit in making sure pilots understand and accept science and will unquestionably follow the direction of a government authority.
Not sure fundies can do that.

[craigiri]

It's interesting that after he moved to GA from the midwest and became increasingly "Christian" is when he became really nuts......could be a coincidence, but more likely he was - like many of us - looking for an "answer", but instead fed some BS.

[kent_island_sailor]

I suspect the poor guy has something like a brain tumor.

[Occams Razor]

he's definitely got an infective, metastasizing meme

[kmccabe]

Amazing how the first thing people think of is religion on this board.

We have someone who's clearly not right and the first thing they point the finger at is the religion of this guy.

Fucking bigots.

[Mark K]

he's definitely got an infective, metastasizing meme

"Pepper Spray Cop" it will not top, I predict.

[Spatial Ed]

Amazing how the first thing people think of is religion on this board.

We have someone who's clearly not right and the first thing they point the finger at is the religion of this guy.

Fucking bigots.

Perhaps its because the loon clung to his bible is enough of a wake up call to put those who cling under a bit more observation. Especially someone like a pilot who is key to the safety of others.

[Occams Razor]

Amazing how the first thing people think of is religion on this board.

We have someone who's clearly not right and the first thing they point the finger at is the religion of this guy.

Fucking bigots.

the dude went crazy in the cockpit, and brought up God. I would say the nutter brought up the grey haired old dude.

[craigiri]

Amazing how the first thing people think of is religion on this board.

We have someone who's clearly not right and the first thing they point the finger at is the religion of this guy.

Fucking bigots.

Uh.....many of the reports stated that not only was he ranting religious slogans "We need to take a leap of faith here", but also had become more and more strict in his religion in the time period preceding this.

And you don't think that is part of the story??? If he had muttered about Allah would you then think it was relevant?

"

Osbon said something about Iraq and Iran, and called on people to say the Lord’s prayer"

"

Osbon said, ‘We need to take a leap of faith,"

"Osbon started rambling about religion"

"Bill Curley, a friend of Osbon's for nearly 30 years, said Osbon was a Christian who had become "increasingly" religious"

[Mark K]

Is this a case for or against guns in the cockpit?

[craigiri]

"

A passenger said Osbon said, "Pray f***ing now for Jesus Christ" and mumbled about Jesus"

I guess he should not have used the bad word....

Actually, I feel very sorry for the guy. It was obviously an episode.....hard to imagine, though, that it was the first time he felt anxiety and panic. The guy should be on something......

In all seriousness, I think a plane at altitude is a platform for mental illness. Nothing like being crammed in an aluminum tube with hundreds of people and no way out.......

Is this a case for or against guns in the cockpit?

If he would have had a gun, he could have ended the whole episode with a couple leaps of faith. Jesus would have taken care of the souls.

[President Eisenhowler]

Amazing how the first thing people think of is religion on this board.

We have someone who's clearly not right and the first thing they point the finger at is the religion of this guy.

Fucking bigots.

I think that's justified, given that the subject matter of his ranting was religious, according to the affidavit. If he had been ranting about alien invasions, or pink crocodiles, then religion would not have come into it.

[EdithFergus]

If you're religious, you're out.

[kmccabe]

My mind isn't changed.

The fact of the matter is the guy went off his rocker in an episode.

Yes - he was using religious speech.

You folks (and you know who you are) blame the religion.

Bigotry nothing less.

[Spatial Ed]

My mind isn't changed.

The fact of the matter is the guy went off his rocker in an episode.

Yes - he was using religious speech.

You folks (and you know who you are) blame the religion.

Bigotry nothing less.

No more than those who want to profile Muslims at airports.

[President Eisenhowler]

My mind isn't changed.

The fact of the matter is the guy went off his rocker in an episode.

Yes - he was using religious speech.

You folks (and you know who you are) blame the religion.

Bigotry nothing less.

I don't know if I'm one of "you folks" or not -- I don't blame his religion, but to describe him as a "religious nut" doesn't seem to be bigoted. According to the reports we have, he was religious, he had become a lot more intense about his religion lately, and he went off in an explicitly religious way.

[Boobytrap]

Amazing how the first thing people think of is religion on this board.

We have someone who's clearly not right and the first thing they point the finger at is the religion of this guy.

Fucking bigots.

Uh.....many of the reports stated that not only was he ranting religious slogans "We need to take a leap of faith here", but also had become more and more strict in his religion in the time period preceding this.

And you don't think that is part of the story??? If he had muttered about Allah would you then think it was relevant?

"

Osbon said something about Iraq and Iran, and called on people to say the Lord's prayer"

"

Osbon said, 'We need to take a leap of faith,"

"Osbon started rambling about religion"

"Bill Curley, a friend of Osbon's for nearly 30 years, said Osbon was a Christian who had become "increasingly" religious"

Well, that concludes it.

Religion causes this previously undiognosed condition. Time to interrogate all pilots and thin the ranks for the public good.

[Regatta Dog]

That fucking Obama guy. If he wasn't such a Christian, we might have gay marriage sanctioned at a national level.

[Mike G]

My mind isn't changed.

The fact of the matter is the guy went off his rocker in an episode.

Yes - he was using religious speech.

You folks (and you know who you are) blame the religion.

Bigotry nothing less.

What would he have to do or say to make you think his religious beliefs played a roll?
What's the tipping point for you?

[Spatial Ed]

Well, that concludes it.

Religion causes this previously undiognosed condition. Time to interrogate all pilots and thin the ranks for the public good.

Should we really rely on those who reject science to pilot our aircraft? Especially those who think a better life exists after we die?

[Mike G]

I wonder if whatever state they were over had a "Stand your cockpit" rule.

[benwynn]

Well, that concludes it.

Religion causes this previously undiognosed condition. Time to interrogate all pilots and thin the ranks for the public good.

Should we really rely on those who reject science to pilot our aircraft? Especially those who think a better life exists after we die?

I know quite a few very competent, intelligent people who buy into that ridiculous superstition.

It sounds like the guy has some sort of medical head problem. Had he been ranting about atheism, I don't think that would make a case for religion. Maybe you think it would.

Ben

[kmccabe]

Bigoted Hypocrites - I was expecting more from this 'educated' crowd. Dunno why.

[Occams Razor]

bigoted in what way? Say a guy goes nuts and invokes Allah and blows himself up taking innocents with him.

what would be the appropriate conclusion? Religious motivated murder?

If so, what sort of conclusion should we have for attempted murder of an airliner's passengers?

[Occams Razor]

In France, Sarkozy just cracked down on "radical islamists"

Would this guy be a "radical christian?"

[benwynn]

bigoted in what way? Say a guy goes nuts and invokes Allah and blows himself up taking innocents with him.

what would be the appropriate conclusion? Religious motivated murder?

If so, what sort of conclusion should we have for attempted murder of an airliner's passengers?

Do you seriously believe that the pilot's outburst was motivated entirely by religion? The speculation is that he was mentally incapacitated. Should mentally incapacitated people be seen as spokespeople for the group that their rantings put them in?

Ben

[benwynn]

In France, Sarkozy just cracked down on "radical islamists"

Would this guy be a "radical christian?"

No. He has no history of this behavior. Fred Phelps would be an example of a radical Christian.

Ben

[Occams Razor]

In France, Sarkozy just cracked down on "radical islamists"

Would this guy be a "radical christian?"

No. He has no history of this behavior. Fred Phelps would be an example of a radical Christian.

Ben

many terror bombers also have no history of being outside of society either. I don't blame "islam" nor do I blame "christianity" - but to ignore the influence of belief is to ignore a basic fundamental issue.

[benwynn]

In France, Sarkozy just cracked down on "radical islamists"

Would this guy be a "radical christian?"

No. He has no history of this behavior. Fred Phelps would be an example of a radical Christian.

Ben

many terror bombers also have no history of being outside of society either. I don't blame "islam" nor do I blame "christianity" - but to ignore the influence of belief is to ignore a basic fundamental issue.

Terror bombers are motivated and are trained over years, and are intent on killing large numbers of people. This guy went nuts in a matter of minutes, and with what intent? To have people miss their connecting flights?

Ben

[mr_fabulous]

It sounds like a psychotic episode. There may, or may not be a verifiable organic basis for his behavior. I'd suggest we let the Medical experts and the authorities do their jobs, and be thankful for a co-pilot who was quick, decisive and expeditious. He's the real story here.

[Saorsa]

In France, Sarkozy just cracked down on "radical islamists"

Would this guy be a "radical christian?"

No. He has no history of this behavior. Fred Phelps would be an example of a radical Christian.

Ben

many terror bombers also have no history of being outside of society either. I don't blame "islam" nor do I blame "christianity" - but to ignore the influence of belief is to ignore a basic fundamental issue.

Terror bombers are motivated and are trained over years, and are intent on killing large numbers of people. This guy went nuts in a matter of minutes, and with what intent? To have people miss their connecting flights?

Ben

Soooo, it is a plot after all? Does the guy have stock in airport sports bars?

[Occams Razor]

given the folks on the plane thought he was trying to crash it, I'd say it was a bit more serious than just missing the next flight.

[benwynn]

given the folks on the plane thought he was trying to crash it, I'd say it was a bit more serious than just missing the next flight.

Okay... I'll play. Is there a course of action that should be taken here in preventing future... er.... attacks?

Ben

[Occams Razor]

nothing that I would advocate

[t22harris]

I suspect the poor guy has something like a brain tumor.

Might that explain the thinking of all the born-again crazies?

[kent_island_sailor]

Yes. We should make it illegal for crazy people to fly airplanes


A little checking shows I am not the first one to think of this and this was actually done sometime before WW II

given the folks on the plane thought he was trying to crash it, I'd say it was a bit more serious than just missing the next flight.

Okay... I'll play. Is there a course of action that should be taken here in preventing future... er.... attacks?

Ben

[TMSAIL]

Bigoted Hypocrites - I was expecting more from this 'educated' crowd. Dunno why.

Don't worry if the guy was NOT a christian the same crowd would be going out of their way to argue - that it was a guy that lost it, nothing to do with his religion. Think of the Fort HOOD shooter.

The guy had a break down and was rambling - funny how some use it as an excuse to bash Christians. from the link:

Whitworth said in the affidavit. "Osbon began talking about religion, but his statements were not coherent."

Osbon yelled jumbled comments about "Jesus, September 11th, Iraq, Iran and terrorists" while passengers converged on him, the affidavit said.

[Occams Razor]

you're kidding, right? Who said the Fort Hood's shooter's motivation wasn't related to his religion?

To me, all the fundie religion infections are the same, damaging to the individual, people and society.

[benwynn]

you're kidding, right? Who said the Fort Hood's shooter's motivation wasn't related to his religion?

To me, all the fundie religion infections are the same, damaging to the individual, people and society.

Had the pilot been rambling incoherently about brocolli, I suppose he'd be a vegetarian fundamentalist in your book.

Ben

[Occams Razor]

Ok, so say he'd been invoking Allah - would your response be the same? "Ah, it's got nothing to do with religion, he's just having an episode….." right….

[kmccabe]

So let me get this straight....

Psycho pilot goes off the deep end and its all about Christianity

17 Saudis board a plane and kill 3k Americans and it has nothing to do with religeon.

I just want to get my facts straight.

Please, I need those 'educated' types to tell me what I think. Really.

edited to add:

I just want to get my standards settled for what is appropriate bigotry. That's all.

[Occams Razor]

did someone here say the folks who perpetrated 911 weren't religious nut cakes?

[kmccabe]

No I just want to establish standards for appropriate levels of religious bigotry.

I see that Craigiri is about to part some of his sage wisdom. I'll await his response.

[craigiri]

My mind isn't changed.

The fact of the matter is the guy went off his rocker in an episode.

Yes - he was using religious speech.

You folks (and you know who you are) blame the religion.

Bigotry nothing less.

Sarcasm, cynicism and humor seem to allude some...but just in case....

1. Those of us on the more reasonable end of things have been hearing THOUSANDS of rants against Muslims who would dare say their prayer when they are going nuts (or otherwise).

2. Pointing out that NUTS of the Christian variety do the same thing is somewhat relevant to the silliness and overdoing of #1.

I am anything but bigoted against religion. If it works for you and harms no one, go for it. I've seen some people it works for and other who it does not. Personally, I am unable to put my faith in other men (and that's largely what modern religions are.....the priest, pope, imam, etc.)....so I have a hard time with it all.

I do accept some of Judaism (question most everything!), Buddhism (philosophy of life) and Quakerism (the answer lies inside)........

When I go crazy inside a plane, I'll more likely be shouting for an Ativan than Jesus. I know that much about the panicked mind.

No I just want to establish standards for appropriate levels of religious bigotry.

I see that Craigiri is about to part some of his sage wisdom. I'll await his response.

You got it Buddy. Read it and weep.....or cheer.

[craigiri]

did someone here say the folks who perpetrated 911 weren't religious nut cakes?

Nah, they are just putting words in your mouth.

For 10 years we've been saying "SAUDIS SAUDIS" and they still don't get it because Cheney and Bush said Saddam....

It's their OIL blinders on.

[kmccabe]

My mind isn't changed.

The fact of the matter is the guy went off his rocker in an episode.

Yes - he was using religious speech.

You folks (and you know who you are) blame the religion.

Bigotry nothing less.

Sarcasm, cynicism and humor seem to allude some...but just in case....

Oh - OK so you're comment about his becoming even more 'troubling' as he became more 'Christian' was just an attempt at humor..

Forgive me but I'm not exactly swayed...

[craigiri]

Think of the Fort HOOD shooter.

That guy I blame on the internal military system........years in the making.

If we want to make a religion illegal in the USA, then go for it. But until then, they are all the same...and I suspect Nanny and all the other strict constitutionalists will have a slight problem with it anyway.....

You can't then make certain religions blessed by the government and others not. They are all on equal footing.

Personally, I think it would be better to stop the tax breaks to ALL religions and have them all be equal to regular clubs.

[benwynn]

Ok, so say he'd been invoking Allah - would your response be the same? "Ah, it's got nothing to do with religion, he's just having an episode….." right….

If that were the speculation by investigators, yes. Why would you feel my response would be any differnt? I am perfectly capable of objective thought.

Ben

[kmccabe]

I just love bigots covering their tracks. Makes me all warm an fuzzy.

[craigiri]

Oh - OK so you're comment about his becoming even more 'troubling' as he became more 'Christian' was just an attempt at humor..

Forgive me but I'm not exactly swayed...

So you don't agree that very troubled people often become more religious as they spiral down?

I have seen that. We all have our problems and our difficulties in life.....but differ in where we look for the solutions. In this case, he was a fine upstanding guy...no history of anything. Then he cracked. It happened to be as he was becoming much more religious.

Do I believe they are related? Yes - not causation, but related. A lot of modern religion and news (he screamed about Israel and Iraq also) is designed to make you more fearful, hence a better member of the flock (of consumer or congregation).

So, if you really want that detail - I believe the dude was sick.....maybe he was able to cover it up and get past it up until now, but he has panic and anxiety disorder. His seeking of more religion was probably an attempt to feel better or stop the voices in his head...BUT, it's just possible that the sermons or world views of the church instead enlarged them.

Who knows? But there is nothing wrong with noting the possible connection.

[kmccabe]

Oh - OK so you're comment about his becoming even more 'troubling' as he became more 'Christian' was just an attempt at humor..

Forgive me but I'm not exactly swayed...

So you don't agree that very troubled people often become more religious as they spiral down?

No actually you put it on his being Christian - nowhere did you write that he was troubled first and Christian second.

But then again bigots don't like to be called on it.

Waddya think?

I'm kind of locked down on this whole discriminating against people based on religion.. you don't seem to have that issue.

[TMSAIL]

Think of the Fort HOOD shooter.

That guy I blame on the internal military system........years in the making.

If we want to make a religion illegal in the USA, then go for it. But until then, they are all the same...and I suspect Nanny and all the other strict constitutionalists will have a slight problem with it anyway.....

You can't then make certain religions blessed by the government and others not. They are all on equal footing.

Personally, I think it would be better to stop the tax breaks to ALL religions and have them all be equal to regular clubs.

I rest my case....

[craigiri]

No actually you put it on his being Christian - nowhere did you write that he was troubled first and Christian second.

But then again bigots don't like to be called on it.

Waddya think?

I'm kind of locked down on this whole discriminating against people based on religion.. you don't seem to have that issue.

No, I said MORE Christian, meaning more fundamentalist.........

The key quote:
"Another longtime friend, Bill Curley, said Osbon is a Christian who has become "increasingly" religious"

Another:
"he had begun shutting off flight panel instruments and declaring that the crew needed to take a leap of faith and that there were 150 lost souls on board"

According to others he was "ranting religious sermons".....are you claiming he pulled these out of thin air? I couldn't do that if I tried, because I haven't listened to any....

BTW, you have to wonder why the guy made so little money that he needed a couple other careers - selling weight loss milk shakes and doing personal coaching.....that sucks.

[Occams Razor]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

[Sol Rosenberg]

Sounds like another case of somebody busting a nut.

[TMSAIL]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

No you do not get IT. Christian Guy babbling religious words while having a mental breakdown is NOT the same as an Islamic Guy holding an 8 year old girl by the pony tail, and putting a bullet in her brain while screaming Allah Akbar!!

[craigiri]

No you do not get IT. Christian Guy babbling religious words while having a mental breakdown is NOT the same as an Islamic Guy holding an 8 year old girl by the pony tail, and putting a bullet in her brain while screaming Allah Akbar!!

Ah, now I'm getting it.
Only if he would have succeeded in bring the plane down with 150 dead would it mean anything???

But, when it comes to the shoe or underwear bomber where no one got hurt...it's different?

Now I am confused again...

[kmccabe]

No actually you put it on his being Christian - nowhere did you write that he was troubled first and Christian second.

But then again bigots don't like to be called on it.

Waddya think?

I'm kind of locked down on this whole discriminating against people based on religion.. you don't seem to have that issue.

No, I said MORE Christian, meaning more fundamentalist.........

So lemme guess the equation in your mind is the greater degree of Christianity, the greater the danger....

GOT it.

At least your clear in your bigotry - its good to have a proper sense of self.

[Occams Razor]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

No you do not get IT. Christian Guy babbling religious words while having a mental breakdown is NOT the same as an Islamic Guy holding an 8 year old girl by the pony tail, and putting a bullet in her brain while screaming Allah Akbar!!

Dude, the guy tried to crash the plane. At least the co-pilot and the passengers and crew thought so. he wasn't just sitting in the corner babbling away.

[kmccabe]

at least your comment was tongue in check 'kind of'.

[craigiri]

At least your clear in your bigotry - its good to have a proper sense of self.

In the abstract, yes.

Whether muslim fundamentalists, christian militia or end-of-world rapturists or right-wing jewish settlers and nutters.......those who tend to put too much value in things which are other than reality can tend to also be those who go off the rails...

As I mentioned above, I suspect the causation was panic and anxiety attacks - which millions have without trying to crash a plane! The religious component, if it exists, was in perhaps blaming disease on something other than genetics and environment....and that is the approach of those who are anti-science.

You can no more "pray away the panic" than you can "pray away the gay". But that's a deeper point of discussion. The guy needs meds. I really hope, honestly, that he is not criminally charged - and that may be because I am BIASED toward Christians. If he was muslim I'd probably agree with throwing the book at him.

We're all bigots, my friend....even you.

[TMSAIL]

did someone here say the folks who perpetrated 911 weren't religious nut cakes?

They weren't nut jobs - They were soldiers acting out Jihad. The pilot on Jet Blue did go NUTS based on unknown factors, The difference is he was not on a religious crusade.

[badlatitude]

did someone here say the folks who perpetrated 911 weren't religious nut cakes?

They weren't nut jobs - They were soldiers acting out Jihad. The pilot on Jet Blue did go NUTS based on unknown factors, The difference is he was not on a religious crusade.

The difference is he was not on a religious crusade.

And you know that exactly how?

[Occams Razor]

Cause he's a Christian! They haven't done the crusade thing in what, 1000 years? oh, excepting that little Iraq thingy.

[Olsonist]

I just love bigots covering their tracks. Makes me all warm an fuzzy.

Fact, argument and reason is not going to sway you.
It hasn't; it won't.

[TMSAIL]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

No you do not get IT. Christian Guy babbling religious words while having a mental breakdown is NOT the same as an Islamic Guy holding an 8 year old girl by the pony tail, and putting a bullet in her brain while screaming Allah Akbar!!

Dude, the guy tried to crash the plane. At least the co-pilot and the passengers and crew thought so. he wasn't just sitting in the corner babbling away.

You keep saying that could you provide a cite? What I heard is that he was acting erratically was escorted to the back of the plane. That a copilot deadheading was on board and took his place in the cockpit. Later on he tried to get back in the cockpit and that is when the passengers intervened. How do you know that in his deteriorated mental state he was just trying to get back where he belonged?

[TMSAIL]

did someone here say the folks who perpetrated 911 weren't religious nut cakes?

They weren't nut jobs - They were soldiers acting out Jihad. The pilot on Jet Blue did go NUTS based on unknown factors, The difference is he was not on a religious crusade.

The difference is he was not on a religious crusade.

And you know that exactly how?

Because there were ample opportunities for a mentally stable pilot to crash this plane, this guy had a complete mental breakdown. Trying to add a religious component to it is bigotry pure and simple.

[kmccabe]

I just love bigots covering their tracks. Makes me all warm an fuzzy.

Fact, argument and reason is not going to sway you.
It hasn't; it won't.

Fascinating that I wasn't the only one to pick up on it.

the fact that you're oblivious to it is also fascinating.

Do as I say not as I do???

[craigiri]

You keep saying that could you provide a cite? What I heard is that he was acting erratically was escorted to the back of the plane.

No, he was not just acting funny.

HE WAS TURNING OFF COCKPIT INSTRUMENTS....

He was talking about a leap of faith for the 150 lost souls on board - a definitely reference to the fact that he knew he was on a plane with other people and he felt they needed to be "saved".

C'mon.....now you are trying to be funny, right???

No one here is saying he displayed the seeming sanity of the 9/11 hijackers...then again, the shoe and underwear bombers were not exactly all there either.....

Let's start here. IF he was a muslim and was shouting about the wars and about the 150 infidels on board who needing saving, would you THEN AGREE there was a religious component to it? I say you would....

[kmccabe]

You keep saying that could you provide a cite? What I heard is that he was acting erratically was escorted to the back of the plane.

No, he was not just acting funny.

HE WAS TURNING OFF COCKPIT INSTRUMENTS....

He was talking about a leap of faith for the 150 lost souls on board - a definitely reference to the fact that he knew he was on a plane with other people and he felt they needed to be "saved".

C'mon.....now you are trying to be funny, right???

No one here is saying he displayed the seeming sanity of the 9/11 hijackers...then again, the shoe and underwear bombers were not exactly all there either.....

Let's start here. IF he was a muslim and was shouting about the wars and about the 150 infidels on board who needing saving, would you THEN AGREE there was a religious component to it? I say you would....

Let me guess again - YOU were there...

Thank god we have you to tell us what happened.

[craigiri]

Thank god we have you to tell us what happened.

Actually, we have interviews with 150 people to tell us that...unlike 9/11.

But, then again, they were largely infidels going from Sodom to Gomorrah.

[Occams Razor]

yelling about a bomb on the plane, changing the radio frequencies, asking the co-pilot to "take a leap of faith" - I dunno, sounds more than getting up, walking away and mumbling about Jesus.





Osbon is charged with interfering with a flight crew following his bizarre outburst Tuesday on the flight that began in New York and was diverted to Amarillo, Texas. He was still being held at a hospital there Wednesday and being medically evaluated.

Under federal law, a conviction for interference with a flight crew or attendants can bring up to 20 years in prison. The offense is defined as assaulting or intimidating the crew, interfering with its duties or diminishing its ability to operate the plane.

One aviation expert said he couldn't remember a pilot being prosecuted on the charge, which reads as though it was written with passengers in mind.

"I've been doing this for more than 50 years, and I can't recall anything like this," said Denny Kelly, a private investigator in Dallas and former Braniff Airlines pilot.

A pilot with JetBlue since 2000, Osbon acted oddly and became increasingly erratic on the flight, worrying his fellow crew members so much that they locked him out of cockpit after he abruptly left for the cabin, according to a federal affidavit. He then started yelling about Jesus, al-Qaida and a possible bomb on board, forcing passengers to tackle him and tie him up with seat belt extenders for about 20 minutes until the planed landed.

"The (first officer) became really worried when Osbon said 'we need to take a leap of faith,'" according to the sworn affidavit given by an FBI agent John Whitworth. "Osbon started trying to correlate completely unrelated numbers like different radio frequencies, and he talked about sins in Las Vegas."

Investigators said they were told that Osbon scolded air traffic controllers to quiet down, then turned off the radios altogether, and dimmed the monitors in the cockpit. He allegedly said aloud that "things just don't matter" and encouraged his co-pilot that they take a leap of faith.

"We're not going to Vegas," Osbon told his co-pilot in midflight, according to the affidavit.

Osbon, described by neighbors as tall and muscular, "aggressively" grabbed the hands of a flight attendant who confronted him and later dashed down the cabin while being chased. Passengers wrestled Osbon to the ground, and one female flight attendant's ribs were bruised during the struggle. No one on board was seriously hurt.

[craigiri]

So, things don't matter, turning off instruments, lost souls needing saved that aren't going to get to the destination.....nah, nothing here. No relation at all to his religion. None.

Good thing he wasn't ranting about MSNBC.

[benwynn]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

Again. If the guy was ranting about vegetables, would you be pegging him as a vegetarian fundamentalist?

You are comparing a trusted airline employee who had a mental breakdown to someone investing dedicated YEARS of indoctrination and mission training to bring down an airplane. I cannot fathom the leap of logic it takes to make that comparison.

I put a Muslim terrorist vs. a Christian guy with a mental breakdown on two completely different levels based on upon the situation. The day someone like Fred Phelps attempts to take a plane down, I'll be right on board with you guys. That being said, don't accuse me of having a double standard while you appear to be having problems managing just one.

Ben

[kmccabe]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

Again. If the guy was ranting about vegetables, would you be pegging him as a vegetarian fundamentalist?

You are comparing a trusted airline employee who had a mental breakdown to someone investing dedicated YEARS of indoctrination and mission training to bring down an airplane. I cannot fathom the leap of logic it takes to make that comparison.

I put a Muslim terrorist vs. a Christian guy with a mental breakdown on two completely different levels based on upon the situation. The day someone like Fred Phelps attempts to take a plane down, I'll be right on board with you guys. That being said, don't accuse me of having a double standard while you appear to be having problems managing just one.

Ben

Don't confront them with themselves.

[A_guy_in_the_Chesapeake]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

Again. If the guy was ranting about vegetables, would you be pegging him as a vegetarian fundamentalist?

You are comparing a trusted airline employee who had a mental breakdown to someone investing dedicated YEARS of indoctrination and mission training to bring down an airplane. I cannot fathom the leap of logic it takes to make that comparison.

I put a Muslim terrorist vs. a Christian guy with a mental breakdown on two completely different levels based on upon the situation. The day someone like Fred Phelps attempts to take a plane down, I'll be right on board with you guys. That being said, don't accuse me of having a double standard while you appear to be having problems managing just one.

Ben

You were paying close attention to that earlier article, weren't ya sir?

Good onya - we need MORE honest discussion and much less "you're one of them, so F*ck you" conversations - thanks for moving things that way!

[Spatial Ed]

Its clear to me that the only correct course of action is to only allow true atheists in the cockpit. Remove any possibility that a death worshiper could get to the controls.
The good news is it will give atheists something to do besides attacking Christmas. Win/Win.

[Saorsa]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

Again. If the guy was ranting about vegetables, would you be pegging him as a vegetarian fundamentalist?

Atheists are the ones who see the hand of god everywhere.

[Olsonist]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

Again. If the guy was ranting about vegetables, would you be pegging him as a vegetarian fundamentalist?

Atheists are the ones who see the hand of god everywhere.

We do? News to me. We see the handiwork of zealots everywhere but then so does everyone else.

Please, someone acuse me of being a holier than thou atheist.

[Spatial Ed]

I think I get it now.

Christian nutters, Nope, don't exist. Maybe a nutter who is christian

Islamic nutters, damn straight, that religion made them do it.


And "I'm" being accused of bigotry.

Again. If the guy was ranting about vegetables, would you be pegging him as a vegetarian fundamentalist?

Atheists are the ones who see the hand of god everywhere.

No, if he were ranting about vegetables, he would clearly be a very sick mental patient.
If he's ranting about Jesus, he's just your run of the mill religious type.

[Gouvernail]

I have no personal experience with mental illness, no family, friends, or business associates.

Giggle tee hee...look at this pilot's story>>>

And I wish I could say the same.


Those among us who simply have no comprehension related to "nervous breakdowns," or "going bat shit crazy." are truly fortunate.


The news reports are clear. The pilot's brain failed him. The coworkers dealt with the situation.



The man should be afforded whatever help his associates can offer and, as he cannot be trusted to fly again, perhaps he should be re-trained as a flight instructor..land based.



All the ignorant people who believe there is more to this story are truly fortunate to have lived lives which allow them to maintain their ignorance about mental issues and the social ramifications. .



I would love to be able to say I never was around to observe, participate in the event, or even comprehend it was happening when some close friend, co-worker, employee, boss, teacher, or total stranger lost the ability to rationally participate in life.



I even tried myself out in a professional path toward helping people who had those problems...Fuck that!! I have always since said..I decided to fix boats. Boats stay fixed.


Unfortunatly, I read the reports and immediately comprehended the personal tragedy that began during that flight and thought about how his life and the lives of those close to him will forever be changed.



I am profoundly jealous of your ignorance and sincerely wish I shared it.

[Sol Rosenberg]

Sad story. Seems like something snapped. The Las Vegas aspect of it reminded me of...

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

[Mark K]

Sad story. Seems like something snapped. The Las Vegas aspect of it reminded me of...

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

"You drive. You drive. I think there's something wrong with me."

[President Eisenhowler]

Sad story. Seems like something snapped. The Las Vegas aspect of it reminded me of...

We were somewhere around Barstow on the edge of the desert when the drugs began to take hold.

The only thing that worried me was the ether.

[GRUMPY]

[benwynn]

As your attorney i advise you to take a hit out of the small brown bottle in my shaving kit.

[Sol Rosenberg]

You poor fool! Wait till you see those goddamn bats.

[Mark K]

No point mentioning those bats. The poor bastard will see them soon enough.

[benwynn]

Hallucinations are bad enough. But after awhile you learn to cope with things like seeing your dead grandmother crawling up your leg with a knife in her teeth.

[craigiri]

You are comparing a trusted airline employee who had a mental breakdown to someone investing dedicated YEARS of indoctrination and mission training to bring down an airplane. I cannot fathom the leap of logic it takes to make that comparison

I don't think anyone claimed it is EQUAL to someone who took years to train to bring down a plane....

The point is that even if it were a ONE TIME muslim mentally-ill screamer with control of the cockpit....would you or others claim no religious component at all?

If I had to measure it - I'd call it 80% mental illness and 20% religious influence.......

I'd also state that the religious influence did not make the action occur - which is an important point. However, the ranting makes it clear as to what kind of garbage he allowed to fill his memory banks.

A sane person can sort out that garbage - that is, go to church for a social experience and still not really believe the fire and brimstone. But an insane person might have a more difficult time.

I've related before the story of my tennis partner who blamed both his dad and Bill Clinton for his shoulder injury and bad games. He was mentally ill. Still, if he hadn't listened to talk radio it is unlikely that Bill Clinton would have been to blame for his woes. That's somewhat similar to this case - not causation, but once the split from reality occurs, it comes out.

Ed, if you or your family have not had experience with mental illness, I can only imagine one of a few things.....either cover-ups, lies or you don't know a lot.

[Spatial Ed]

Ed, if you or your family have not had experience with mental illness, I can only imagine one of a few things.....either cover-ups, lies or you don't know a lot.

Gouv took the liberty to delete the text of my post and replace it what he wanted to believe I wrote, yet keep it in my quote box.
Klassy with a K.

[craigiri]

Ed, if you or your family have not had experience with mental illness, I can only imagine one of a few things.....either cover-ups, lies or you don't know a lot.

Gouv took the liberty to delete the text of my post and replace it what he wanted to believe I wrote, yet keep it in my quote box.
Klassy with a K.

Well, let me apologize!

I don't see your post claiming no experience with mental illness - just quotes of it which have apparently been edited.

My point is that virtually every American who knows people is exposed to mental illness.

In one year alone (2009) 20% of Americans admit to depression, thoughts of suicide, etc. etc.
Take that out over a decade or two and we can rest assured that mental health issues affect us all...if not in our own heads, in those close to us or our coworkers, etc.

Again, sorry if I misrepresented your words. With so many posts, it's hard to figure out who said what sometimes!

Anyway, real point is that I feel for the guy. Sanity is something often held by a thin thread.

[mikewof]

Anyway, real point is that I feel for the guy. Sanity is something often held by a thin thread.

One of the terrific advances in the idea of mental illness is that it has evolved. In the old days it encompassed things like smoking a reefer and homosexuality, or writing bad poetry and being a communist. Today committable mental illness is defined by the answer "yes" to either of these questions ... "are they a danger to themselves?" and "are they a danger to others?"

I've read all kinds of dissenting events of what happened on that plane, but it seems partly attributed to bizarrity from the pilot and a rash action by everyone else. He didn't seem to prevent a threat to that plane, but he was apparently under a lot of stress, much of it apparently religious. While he was in the shitter they locked him out of the cockpit and when he discovered this things headed south fast.

Everyone is okay, nobody was killed by a vigilante mob or a suicidal pilot so all's well that ended well, more or less. But I still get the feeling that they could have landed that plane with him happily taking a breather and a nap in a jumpseat following a professional and private conversation rather than getting all those security bouncers involved and turning it into a circus.

[craigiri]

I think a quick acting tranq would have done the job, but short of that it's tough to get ahold of someone having a complete flip-out.

[Gouvernail]

Ed, if you or your family have not had experience with mental illness, I can only imagine one of a few things.....either cover-ups, lies or you don't know a lot.

Gouv took the liberty to delete the text of my post and replace it what he wanted to believe I wrote, yet keep it in my quote box.
Klassy with a K.

OK here goes the preachy version....

I edited your post for clarity.



My accusation of ignorance is not made with acrimony.



Absolutely not!!!



I even made a call to a local radio talk show host who was spending time on his afternoon drive time show making similar ignorant statement to those made in this thread.



I told him how lucky he has been to avoid knowledge which would preclude him from making the statements he had been making..



Communication is a strange bird.



You can carefully consider and then say or write something only to have those on the receiving end find unintended gems.


It was clear by your choice of titles for this thread and your opening post exactly what you were telling us.


I wish everybody shared your ignorance.



In fact I wish nobody knew about murder, rape, war, sickness, taxes,....



Sorry for the hijack.


I have a regatta to run. Come play!!!