46 replies to this topic

[kiwikz7]

looking for single handed cat ? Hobie FXONE vs Nacra Inter 17,any other options other than A cat ?

[Just Sail]

F16

[Scarecrow]

Are you in NZ? If so your second hand market is prettymuch A class or paper tiger. There was an I17 down at the mount whose owner will be along soon. Otherwise you'll basically have to shop out of Australia in which case you can add, maricats, windrushes, taipans a range of nacra and hobies. There is a nice blade on the market in south Australia at present (see ad on catsailer.net)

[kiwikz7]

No I live in the US ,Savannah GA.

[eric e]

nacra 5.2

$1000-$1500

[Sail_FAU]

Nacra F-17 in Jacksonville http://www.catsailor...lassifieds.html

[furling]

http://catsailor.net...ulate-Condition


Still for sale....$12k with trailer as I have a new one being built for my A Class.

[tikipete]

No I live in the US ,Savannah GA.

https://www.facebook...onMarine?ref=ts
https://www.facebook...09692717?ref=ts



Drive up to Lake Hartwell Easter weekend. The F16 reps, Falcon and Viper will both be there, should be nice sized fleet.http://www.twinhulls.com/springfever/

[jaybird1111]

I have two 18 Square meter catamarans for sale

One is a custom-built Category I, 12' beam, carbon mast and beams, ply with carbon over hulls
the other is a NACRA Category II, 11' beam, lengthened 5.5 prebent mast, comes with tilting trailer and a plethora of extra parts.

If interested, contact jay_bird1111 at yahoo dot com

[TornadoSail2016]

No I live in the US ,Savannah GA.

Quite a lot of a-cats floating around in your area. If you do not find one, PM me.

[tikipete]

I think there will be one of the new Nacra F16s at Spring Fever as well.

[GnarlyItWas]

If you want to match race you will need a beater H16.

Where in Savannah do you plan on sailing out of ?

[EvelineGasser]

Are you in NZ?

[Triceratops]

I have an F18HT I'll sell you! Good in light air single handing, better with two over 15 kt's. Main, and Spin. Located in Michigan.

[AClass USA 230]

looking for single handed cat ? Hobie FXONE vs Nacra Inter 17,any other options other than A cat ?

If you want the best racing, why would you rule out the A-Class? Plenty of used boats available and we are seeing a lot of 5-8 year old boats remaining very competitive with rig/sail and foil upgrades. It's not a total arms race those outside the class will sometimes claim it is especially for someone just getting into the class. Our winter circuit had 24, 28, and 36 boats racing at the three events respectively. The World Championship is an open event for the first time in its history and we are expecting over a 100 boat turnout in the Keys in October. Last year, the A-Class was the biggest class at the Spring Fever event and I think they will probably get 15-20 boats there again (that's right in your backyard). The Atlanta/Lake Lanier A-Class fleet is growing and active also.

I-17 class is very small and I don't see the boat staying in production (if it is not already out of production). I don't think they could get 5-8 boats to an event right now. It is only faster than an A-Class in light air downwind. It also weighs twice as much as an A-Cat so is more of a chore to move up and down the beach.

FXOne does not exist as a class in the US. I was never sure what the point of that boat was as it did not offer much more performance than an I-17 which never really took off.

F-16 is really a doublehanded class and all of the class promotion is really based on how good a doublehanded boat it is especially for small crews. Sure you can race singlehanded but in any breeeze, a doublehanded crew is going to win. I hope F-16 will keep growing.

I think the classes in the US right now to get into are Hobie 16, F-16, A-Class, F-18, and the 20 footers (for distance racing). I'd pick one of those. But maybe you want to sail by yourself or just race Portsmouth.

[tikipete]

To me, single hander means lugging it around the beach by myself. When I was under 40 y.o. I paid no attention to such non-sense, now it means everything.

The F16 is okay around the beach if you're in pretty good shape, A class is a lot easier. Surprisingly the Wave is a collosal PITA! I'd considered a Wave but not after trying to move one around the beach. For sailing the F16 is a joy, single handed, up to about 12 knots or a little less. If you can see white caps you probably need crew.

I still think the F16 can be a top single hander, for a young world class athlete and there are guys over 40 who do an admirable job, but they aren't winning many medals.

[kiwikz7]

Great info A Class USA 230, my concern with the A Cat is how it handles our sea breeze 16 plus with wind against the tide 2 foot chop?We sail in a river with 2- 3 knots of tide.

[Occams Razor]

To me, single hander means lugging it around the beach by myself. When I was under 40 y.o. I paid no attention to such non-sense, now it means everything.

The F16 is okay around the beach if you're in pretty good shape, A class is a lot easier. Surprisingly the Wave is a collosal PITA! I'd considered a Wave but not after trying to move one around the beach. For sailing the F16 is a joy, single handed, up to about 12 knots or a little less. If you can see white caps you probably need crew.

I still think the F16 can be a top single hander, for a young world class athlete and there are guys over 40 who do an admirable job, but they aren't winning many medals.

Nah, you just need big, fat beach wheels.

[tikipete]

I have big fat beach wheels!

[AClass USA 230]

Great info A Class USA 230, my concern with the A Cat is how it handles our sea breeze 16 plus with wind against the tide 2 foot chop?We sail in a river with 2- 3 knots of tide.

An A-Cat will handle the chop as well as any other beach cat and if you do turn over it's a lot easier to right by yourself than any other boat because the mast is sealed and so much lighter. I sail on Lake Pontchartrain with a mean depth of 8-10 feet and a 30 mile long fetch in some directions. The newer boats with curved daggerboards handle those conditions quite well. You can still turn over but the margin of error is greatly increased.

[Windward]

Firstly, why do you need to find the single handed cat?

Is this a murder mystery? How did the cat loose its hand?

Seems like a B rated plot to me.

[tikipete]

Only the enlightened have attained comprehension.

[Foghorn77]

Firstly, why do you need to find the single handed cat?

Is this a murder mystery? How did the cat loose its hand?

Seems like a B rated plot to me.

It's code, he's a spy.
Hopefully he's a smart spy and after he buys an A cat ,he'll be so addicted to the ease of handling and the adrenalin rush it gives, he won't have time to spy, just sail.

[HobieAnarchy]

A-class cats may be the largest singlehanded catamaran class in the US, but this is the second largest:




And you could buy a whole fleet of them for what an A-Class costs.

[Rhino 15]

Firstly, why do you need to find the single handed cat?

Is this a murder mystery? How did the cat loose its hand?

Seems like a B rated plot to me.

The single-handed cat is looking for the man who done shot his paw.

[Kaptainkriz]

[AClass USA 230]

A-class cats may be the largest singlehanded catamaran class in the US, but this is the second largest:




And you could buy a whole fleet of them for what an A-Class costs.

The main problem with the Hobie 17 is that it is no longer in production so the future for it as a class has issues as the current fleet ages out. The comment about cost is minimally accurate because you are taking the easy road and not comparing apples to apples (a used 8-25 year old fiberglass beach cat that weighs 340 lbs versus a new carbon A-Cat that weighs 165 lbs). You can make the same cost case against any new F-18 or new F-16 so don't pick on just the A-Class. There are plenty of really nice entry level A-Cats that can be bought for $8K to $14K that can be updated with the latest masts and foils (sails don't count because if you are racing you typically get a new sail each year, new or older boat). With very reasonable care and attention, A-Cats are very durable boats with many 8-10 year old boats still racing.

I don't want to knock the H-17. It's a fine boat that has earned its place in multihull history. It's handling and performance (especially in heavy air) might be the right beach cat that addresses this sailor's concerns about sailing in big wind and short chop.

[HobieAnarchy]

The main problem with the Hobie 17 is that it is no longer in production so the future for it as a class has issues as the current fleet ages out. The comment about cost is minimally accurate because you are taking the easy road and not comparing apples to apples (a used 8-25 year old fiberglass beach cat that weighs 340 lbs versus a new carbon A-Cat that weighs 165 lbs). You can make the same cost case against any new F-18 or new F-16 so don't pick on just the A-Class. There are plenty of really nice entry level A-Cats that can be bought for $8K to $14K that can be updated with the latest masts and foils (sails don't count because if you are racing you typically get a new sail each year, new or older boat). With very reasonable care and attention, A-Cats are very durable boats with many 8-10 year old boats still racing.

Ah, Bob, but you are picking on the Hobie 17. Sure, they're not as sexy as A-Cats, but because the Hobie 17 is fiberglass and 340 lbs, it lasts far longer than an an A-Cat that weighs 165 lbs. It has a much longer competitive lifespan because you don't have the arms race you have in the A-Cats. How many 25 year old A-Cats are still racing regularly?

How much have you spent on your boat(s) in the last 5 years? - I've spent less than $600 on my 17, and most of that was in lines and carbon rudders when I first bought it (new) in August of '07. It still has its original sail - and I came within one race of winning the North Americans with it last year. (North Americans typically draw 30 - 40 boats.)

In your own post, you say, "There are plenty of really nice entry level A-Cats that can be bought for $8K to $14K that can be updated with the latest masts and foils (sails don't count because if you are racing you typically get a new sail each year, new or older boat)". So there's $12K - $18K that you've spent - before sails - for an entry level boat - that's not really competitive.

Alternatively, one could buy a fully race competitive Hobie 17 for $3500 (a new sail would be $1269) - so you could buy 3 or 4 competitive Hobie 17s for what you'd pay to get one, "entry level" A-Cat.

True, they are no longer in production, but that doesn't mean you can't get parts for them. Hobie Cat still sells major components (even hulls) and used parts are really easy to find.

It all depends on what you want - and how much $ you want to blow on your hobby.

[Waynemarlow]

You forget the title, "single handed cat", that includes righting the boat on your own and pulling it up and down the beach on your own. Now my experiances of the H17 is that you can do neither of the former without help.

At the end of the day no one has asked what budget he has, isn't that pretty fundemental to what actually to look for.

[samc99us]

Here's a question I pose to the A-Cat guys, and perhaps it has been asked before, even by me, but how many A-Cat owners regularly launch and land their boats off of a beach? Is this a major consideration for the OP?

I ask because this is a boat I am highly, highly considering purchasing (like I have cash in hand to buy an A-Cat purchasing). My primary sailing location is launching off a beach in short, steep chop. I parked the H14 in the chop on Sunday, and nearly backed down on the rudders. This situation probably would have done considerable damage to an A-cat. Fortunately I have 2 other launch sites in mind, one with an active A-Cat fleet, that lack short steep chop in high breeze.

It is hard to quantify the cost of a boat, as there are many variables. There are good used A-Cats for under $5k that are significantly faster than a H17 and easier to move around on the beach. To be fully competitive, i.e, in the top 10 at North American's, you might need a $18k+ boat with curved foils and the latest fore-aft bendy mast, but if you look at the quality of sailor in the fleet, you need more than just a fast boat to be competitive. The beauty is, you can pick your price point. The downside, you might end up in an arms race.

On the H17 front, many are older boats that have been sitting a while, uncared for. You often need to put a lot of TLC into a beach boat. Bottoms re-faired, hulls wet sanded, polished and waxed, new running rigging, new standing rigging, new EPO rudder blades, new tramp etc. That's an easy $1250 without blinking, so now your $2000 boat is closer to $3250. Add a new sail and that's another $1000, so you are quickly approaching the base price for an A cat. Most A-cat's have been raced throughout there lifetime so have newer rigging that will let you get on the water without worrying about the mast coming down or the lines snapping in your hands.

[Hatin' life]

A-class cats may be the largest singlehanded catamaran class in the US, but this is the second largest:

Isn't that kinda like saying "Your 3" cock is bigger than my 2-1/2" cock"?

[Peregrine]

The similarities of the latest A-Class platforms to the AC45 and the Alinghi AC cat are undeniable.

WOW! Really?

[AClass USA 230]

Here's a question I pose to the A-Cat guys, and perhaps it has been asked before, even by me, but how many A-Cat owners regularly launch and land their boats off of a beach? Is this a major consideration for the OP?

I have a small anchor with a line and float. I set the anchor in the water before I launch. Roll the boat into the water, tie off, remove dolly. Come in, tie off, get dolly, retrieve boat and anchor. Boat never touches the sand.
Very easy to manage and safe. If its windy, you can drop the sail while tied off to the anchor and line after you come in.

[Bsquared]

You might even find an OLD Mark IV Boyer for under $7K. I've managed to win a couple of races and get multiple top 5s over the past couple of years (races, not regatts), in a pretty competitive local fleet. Sometimes age and treachery beat youth and skill...

[AClass USA 230]

The similarities of the latest A-Class platforms to the AC45 and the Alinghi AC cat are undeniable.

WOW! Really?

You got me. The latest F-18, F-16, and A-Class development are all pretty similar to the profile sections, volume distributions, and rocker lines we're seeing in the AC hulls.

[Rawhide]

You might even find an OLD Mark IV Boyer for under $7K. I've managed to win a couple of races and get multiple top 5s over the past couple of years (races, not regatts), in a pretty competitive local fleet. Sometimes age and treachery beat youth and skill...

Compared to anything other than another A, a mark 4 is a dream to sail, but in my opinion, I wouldn't go anything older than a flyer 1, the stepup in performance and ease of sailing has to be seen to be believed. They tack faster, can be pushed harder handle chop better, blah, blah, blah. having said that the best bang for your buck is in buying a current generation rig.

[F16_wouter]

1333372009[/url]' post='3654180']

1333232052[/url]' post='3652217']
looking for single handed cat ? Hobie FXONE vs Nacra Inter 17,any other options other than A cat ?

Last year, the A-Class was the biggest class at the Spring Fever event and I think they will probably get 15-20 boats there again (that's right in your backyard). The Atlanta/Lake Lanier A-Class fleet is growing and active

I think that the F18 class was bigger then the A's in 2011 (22 entries against 16). F16's were 12 entries big with 4 singlehanders.
This year appears to be 13 A's , 13 F16's and 16 F18's. There are 56 boats registered in total where these three classes make up for 75% with about equal shares.
Should be a great way to see these and maybe arrange for a test ride.

[tikipete]

Spring Fever is a great party! Anyone who can go should.

[sportjet17]

Just located two H17's on the Craiglist for Sacramento CA. One is $1000 and the other is $1100. I am sure each would need some TLC. One could spend a lot of $ on sails and rigging before reaching the cost of the least expensive A Cat in the area, $9000. (without a trailer) I am looking very hard for a good A Cat but really enjoy the H17 right now.

[knobblyoldjimbo]

find a fleet and join it with whatever they use as the most common cat.

whether it be an A or a H17 /16 /14 sailing in traffic has to be the key. No point winning if you're a class of 1 and every chance that even in a fleet of A's there'll be someone to either beat or chase. It's not always about winning, particularly in the A's but participating is a different thing.

[Top knots]

Go a hobie turbo can be sailed in all conditions not like an A or should I say hellipad

[Top knots]

Go a hobie turbo can be sailed in all conditions not like an A or should I say hellipad

[madboutcats]

The older Boyer A classes aren't that fragile, can be sailed in over 20 knots quite easily and would be more exciting in light winds than a little cat. When I had my A Class I painted a sacrificial layer of Rustrid which is an epoxy based paint and just dragged it onto the beach then got my beach rollers to take the boat further up. I still do that with my Nacra 5.8 except now I paint extra flowcoat as my sacrificial layer. At the Nacra nationals I sailed way up the beach in a squall, any further and I would have needed indicators then spun the boat around, the 5.8 behind me tried to round up and ended up capsized in the shore break. When I got home I just touched up my flowcoat. Hobies are heavy, last time I visited Adelaide the Hobie 16 guy that sailed on his own came running to help us get the boat up the ramp even though we didn't need help because he needed help to get his up the ramp

[orca99]

Nacra F20carbon with main sized for singlehanding, as sailed by a guy in Royal Varuna YC; very sexy and expensive option.

[Top knots]

Hobie turbos are tough little cat and can be sailed and righted in any conditions inc surf lol I've seen a class destroyed and blown down the beach in bits sorry mate but they are too restricted I'd rather use all the sail In blow instead of dumping all day and nice and hard up hill

[bobber]

Is there a production lightweight single handed unirig cat out there with a skeg style hull similiar to Nacra 500? It needs to be light so I can move it easily up and down a pretty steep slope (preferably in the range of 100kg) and it needs to be easily righted by one 75 kg guy. Fun on a beam reach in 10 - 20. I've got to get over a sand bar and deal with steep bay chop in north Corpus Christi bay in Texas, so a skeg style hull and a lower aspect ratio rig would be preferable. No racing so a local class is not necessary. I'm game for buying overseas. Thanks for any advice.

[Bull Gator]

To me, single hander means lugging it around the beach by myself. When I was under 40 y.o. I paid no attention to such non-sense, now it means everything.

The F16 is okay around the beach if you're in pretty good shape, A class is a lot easier. Surprisingly the Wave is a collosal PITA! I'd considered a Wave but not after trying to move one around the beach. For sailing the F16 is a joy, single handed, up to about 12 knots or a little less. If you can see white caps you probably need crew.

I still think the F16 can be a top single hander, for a young world class athlete and there are guys over 40 who do an admirable job, but they aren't winning many medals.

To me, single hander means lugging it around the beach by myself. When I was under 40 y.o. I paid no attention to such non-sense, now it means everything.

The F16 is okay around the beach if you're in pretty good shape, A class is a lot easier. Surprisingly the Wave is a collosal PITA! I'd considered a Wave but not after trying to move one around the beach. For sailing the F16 is a joy, single handed, up to about 12 knots or a little less. If you can see white caps you probably need crew.

I still think the F16 can be a top single hander, for a young world class athlete and there are guys over 40 who do an admirable job, but they aren't winning many medals.

Totally agree about the wave but isn't the a cat similar in weight? Can't see how any of these boats are easy to muscle around on a dolly. I sold my laser and am considering an a cat but I think the Exocet kona elite 380 race board in a lot more practical and equally fun.